199. Discussion with Igor Kufayev, Jac O’Keeffe, and Francis Bennett

Patio Talk at SAND

Click on photo for a larger view.

At the 2013 Science and Non-Duality Conference in San Jose, I moderated a panel with Igor Kufayev, Jac O’Keeffe, and Francis Bennett as participants. We decided to videotape a discussion the night before in which we could develop and refine what we would discuss in the conference presentation. We had begun doing that in a hotel meeting room, when we were informed that due to contractual agreements between conference organizers and the hotel, the room had to be vacated and locked. So we took our discussion outside where it became a much more informal dialog.

It was taped on an iPhone, with background music for the first several minutes, jets flying overhead, etc. So the audio quality isn’t ideal, but many in the audience which gathered felt it was a very useful discussion which deserved a wider audience. So I’m posting it here, in audio only. Here’s the published abstract of the panel discussion. This “pre-panel” discussion covers a lot more ground:

Is Awakening, as it’s commonly understood, merely the realization of the Absolute, non-dual reality, or is it a stage or stepping stone to a much more mature development – a larger wholeness, inclusive of both absolute and relative? Francis Bennett, Jac O’Keeffe, and Igor Kufayev will posit that the latter is the case, and discuss the necessity of integrating absolute and relative after awakening, including practical methodologies to facilitate it.

They will discuss how a more holistic path before awakening as found in Buddhist, Hindu, and Christian traditions, leads to smoother integration after awakening. These traditions include moral, meditative/contemplative, and wisdom strands designed to develop a “human vehicle” capable of skillfully and effortlessly containing the non-dual wisdom in a relative, human existence. The neglect of this insight has caused many to become stranded on the “island” of unhealthy “spiritual dissociative disorder”.

This integration does not pertain merely to being able to function in practical life. It is a critical foundation for a vast range of potential development that may unfold after the sort of awakening many mistake as final or ultimate. Perception, appreciation, emotions, and intellect can be refined far beyond what is generally regarded as “normal” or even optimal.

Recorded 10/26/2013

Other BatGap interviews with these participants:

Francis BennettFrancis

Igor KufayevIgor



Jac O'KeefeJac





Discussion is in the forum.

Audio below and as a Podcast. No video recording.