004. Steve & Winifred Boggs

We feel like we live a pretty ordinary life, yet in our 36 year marriage and in our working lives (Steve’s an electrical contractor and Winifred helps with the business as well as being an artist and poet) grace, challenge and transformation play themselves out in endless variety.

Interview recorded 12/9/2009.

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

Video also available on Facebook in 20-minute segments.

30 thoughts on “004. Steve & Winifred Boggs

  1. Hey David,

    Thanks for the conversation J

    I’m not discounting any experience, and I fully understand that all, even those experiences, “the” desire, and the awakening is part of the illusion.

    For me time does not exist. I see the mind as a jar that catches moments and makes sense of them. If it weren’t for the mind we could not understand each other, because each moment is fresh. All words would be perceived as noises like ha-a-a-ap-p-p-y. Space is also created with this idea of time. Obviously this creation is there, because time is how you measure space, or distance.

    Everything has validity, includes all experiences.. But, all experiences come from the mind. No one can experience themselves. They can only experience there mind and body’s reaction to the freedom. It’s like someone seeing there own eye, it can’t happen. Even if you look in the mirror, you still don’t see your actual eye. So it is with the Self.

    I also thing that attachment to experience can’t always been seen as a bad thing. Or else the people who meditate would never meditate for as long as they do. They like the experience. If they stopped meditating, would they still be on the path to ‘enlightenment’?

    Even when we experience experiences we are not adding anything to THAT. It’s complete already. So, I don’t attach anything to experiences and I think that it has to be a personal to continue to chase experiences after realization. Certainly they come, but value can be irrelevant.

    Everything is illusion! There is no time.. Without our mind, we could not piece things together.

    In reality there is no I, but in this dream everything happens. An I happens, along with the desire for freedom (that it already has)

    My feeling is direct self inquiry is getting directly to the ‘problem’. For me that was the key. Things continue to happen after realization (it’s only been 1 yr for me) but, value is not places on things happening now. My mind and body are happier, stress doesn’t hang out, but, everything comes and goes. All is transient. Meditation seems to be the act of chasing experiences. If that’s what people want, I’m not judging, whatever people think they need to do to become happy. Decades are along time. The process seems to depress these people. 30 years may be quick to a tortoise, but for a human, I don’t think it’s fair. It really hurts something in me. They are what they are searching for.

    Are you suggesting I start the Braha comments now?

    Thanks again David. This is fun for this I :o)

  2. Hi Poe
    Thanks for clarifying where you’re coming from. I understand better now. It can sometimes take some back and forth to find a meeting.

    As you listen to the interviews, you may find it useful to understand that Rick and some of the interviewees subscribe to this idea of stages as outlined in Vedanta. ie: there is not one awakening but rather 3 possible. Just as an initial waking brings us to a very different outlook of the world, so too do the other 2. In fact, you may find your reality and the rules shifting on a surprisingly regular basis.

    Rick uses the phrase Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness, for example.

    There is not really room to go into the whole thing here but there is a much greater degree of inclusivity as one grows through the apparent levels of a greater degree of wholeness with the one.

    For me, enlightenment is an organic human process that is not separate from other forms of human development. We’re all on a path of enlightenment, conscious or not.

    People don’t just meditate because they like it or are attached to some experience. They continue because it brings them home to Self. It leaves them open to further unfolding.

    Certainly there are people out there who loose sight of why they’re doing something. But I wouldn’t discount it so easily because it took someone awhile. Most people who have the clarity you’ve had to even perform self-inquiry have a long history of meditation in their journey prior to this “chapter”. I appreciate you don’t believe in the past but this history is how it’s possible for you to even recognize Self, something a vast number of people do not. Why do you then have this gift and another not? You may find it easy but many are not even aware they have thoughts.

    You are welcome to consider everything illusion. This is real for you now. But don’t hold the concept to hard. There are more vistas yet to come on your journey. These steps are easier to take if you hold your experience and perspective lightly.

    I have not considered 30 years as fast but full awakening takes time to mature. There are many ideas to clear, emotions to release and resistances to fall. And many many things to experience, even if you place no value in that.

    What is real for you now is fully valid. But it won’t remain that way. And that’s a good thing 😉 It gets better. (laughs)

    The Comments under Braha have had a related discussion to this and some links you might be interested in. That’s why I’ve suggested it.

  3. “Invisibilty, etc (Levitation etc) is a different dimension of a totality. There are different ‘practices’ to come to such realities (gold, frankinsense, and myrh).”

  4. These are the thoughts that appeared in me as this interview progressed:

    The reality of who you are fundamentally changes everything in the most fundamental manner with a context of the simplist of simplicities.

    All interaction with ‘other’ human beings will always hold one in the unity that one is, that one has realized, that one sometimes even desires to come to. Such has been the prayer “Thank you, Father, that you have given these to me that I might not be separated from the Unity.”

  5. “Wounds” are merely blemishes in the reality that appears. They are always perfect, acceptable, and good to the one who is one (for they are those who make the 2 into 1).

  6. Although for the one whose experience has allowed them to become aware of who they are may not preclude perfect health, sometimes the others manifest in there being will receive the opposite.

  7. It is, as source, the thing that makes everything happen while, at the same time it creates the illusion that it is you who is doing it. This is the play, the dance, the artform of the unity that you are. Unbroken, it is, yet as It will have it, it may appear as even broken and fragmented (all according to what is allowed).

  8. To the question, “Had I not been associated with spiritual teachings, would I have ever come to some kind of awakening?” might be answered as such: Only an opposite is required, and such opposites naturally occur everwhere in every defined circumstance of the world. Whether religious, sociologic-economic circumstance arise in the presence of the world, as long as there appears something to run from, push against, or struggle with it is enough to lead one back to one’s own Self. There can be no such thing as one environment being better than another which will produce, via personal interaction with, ‘awakening’ to be experienced. Still, it may appear, to one who has been surrounded by his or her circumstance, that that circumstance – those events from their own context and interacted with – were more necessary than another who arose in the midst of their own individual world.

  9. The questions Steve was asked that led to awakening are similar to those used at the Liberation Unleashed site.

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