047. Dr. Gregory Tucker

Dr. Gregory Tucker was a Clinical Psychologist who woke up when he read Wei Wu Wei’s “Open Secret,” one of eight books Terence Gray wrote between 1958 and 1974. The shift from the lie, right now is real, to the truth, right now is only a Mind generated dream, made him confront the fact “Psychotherapy” is not a people based event, but only a dreamer based event, in which the dream features all the problems the dreamer in the dream deals with in the process of defending the fiction it is ‘the person’ it portrays in the dream. Waking up occurs exactly as fast as the dreamer in the dream surrenders to the fact it can only be a dreamer in this dream, somewhere with that fact, and probably filling time defending the lie it is some kind of a person, and more likely than not, a less than okay person. Seeing ‘the truth’ prompted Greg to stop working with ‘people’ to work with the suffering dreamers endure defending the fiction they are people. He calls what he does, “The Recovery Process,” which assists dreamers to identify that suffering is a function of defending a lie as if it is a fact. He has never looked back since that ‘fateful’ day in the dream.

Greg’s blog and website.

Interview recorded 11/18/2010

Audio and video below. Audio also available as a Podcast. Video also available on Facebook in 20-minute segments.

116 thoughts on “047. Dr. Gregory Tucker

  1. I thought this guy did best at clarifying why there is an uncompromising quality to awakening. I like how Rick tries to keep a broad interpretation of these things in accepting the idea of spiritual progress but I think guys like this Dr. Tucker, Tony Parsons and some of the Urban Guru Cafe folks are speeding things up by making it uncompromising.

  2. To me, “uncompromising” sounds like “unaccommodating”. The tree whose fruit is ripe bends its branches down so people can pick it. Effective teachers accommodate to the level of consciousness of the student. It may be that uncompromising teachers do speed things up for some, but they may slow things down for others by failing to provide a teaching that’s effective or relevant to their level of development.

  3. Rick, Its common to hear that in the past awakening was not that common. It seems to be accepted by many that it is happening much more commonly now. Can this at all be attributed to old approaches that were progress based and perhaps much more specific? I do sense a truth in what you say about the guy at mtn top saying no work necessary. Yet there is something true about starting with the truth.

  4. Regarding that man at the mountain top, and if I were that man, I wouldn’t say “work” is not necessary.

    Instead, I would say. “Keep practicing; but practice not towards a goal or objective..”

    I.e. wash dishes, but not to get them clean.

    I.e. continue your spiritual practice, but not towards acquiring/achieving anything.

  5. hi Peter,
    i just got your lost comment in the email or reminder for it. i checked the old comment and saw your advice about the book gesture- I try to get it.

    but in my case so far books only allucidated the ideas-
    i read standing as awarness, and ones about a month or so ago-r i remember saying they are clear as
    one day 3 weeks ago and one day 2 weeks befor that
    i walk up quite and i thought in the first one that somthing without effort, as if it is showing that there
    is space there- a bit confusing.
    the other time there was a feeling of having distance
    and lightness – and i was actually giing advice to somone quite relaxed- as if i was the awarness-
    but next day it is goen so i dont know if it is nonduality
    i had millions of expereince( exgerating reading
    and reflecting on K teachings) but few are nondualst-
    or may be the others too were but i had not the words
    and it was work in progress reality in K is unfolding-
    I was so intensely sensetive-
    now i have no solution and o book helps and no method
    i am still trying-

  6. Hi, Tim.

    Most of Tarthang Tulku’s books include experiential exercises that the reader can perform, to better appreciate the insights that he shares.

    I experienced many of the exercises, and can attest to having received interesting results.

    All my best,


  7. P.S. Keeping in mind, of course, that you are performing an exercise without looking for any particular result.

    Instead, just noting what appears and disappears.

  8. Paul said: Its common to hear that in the past awakening was not that common. It seems to be accepted by many that it is happening much more commonly now. Can this at all be attributed to old approaches that were progress based and perhaps much more specific? I do sense a truth in what you say about the guy at mtn top saying no work necessary. Yet there is something true about starting with the truth.
    My response: I don’t think that the mass awakening that seems to be underway is due to a shift from progressive to direct approaches. I think it’s just time for a mass awakening in world consciousness, and thus more and more people are waking up, regardless of what they do or don’t practice. I think that the value of the guy on the mountaintop is to inspire people with a vision of possibilities, and if he can do so, to offer climbing advice. If his presence can catalyze a genuine shift in some people, great. Attending lots of satsangs can enliven or trigger an awakening for some. Reading books can refine ones understanding. But both can leave some people frustrated, and make others mistake familiarity with the terminology for an actual awakening. So I don’t think there’s a universal formula. You have to find what works for you and be honest about it. If you sincerely desire liberation, you won’t settle for anything but the real thing.

  9. To Peter: Of course you wash dishes to get them clean. Why else would you do it? Regarding spiritual practice, there’s a subtle paradox, because in practices I’m aware of, if you’re striving to be someplace you’re not, you’ll defeat your purpose. You do have a purpose, as you do with all actions, but as the Gita puts it, “you have control over action along, never over its fruits. Live not for the fruits of action nor attach yourself to inaction. So in other words, sitting in spiritual practice with your attention on the potential fruits of it will mean your attention is not on the practice. Thus it’s unlikely any fruits will accrue.

  10. You’ve taken my comments out of context, Rick.

    I was referring to the earlier metaphor of a man having had reached the top of a (spiritual) mountain.

    And my comment was submitted within that same context.

    Although, and if you were to visit some zen monasteries, you would be given exactly that bidding:

    wash dishes to wash dishes, not to get them clean.

  11. Its ironic that Gregory is adamantly defending a mental construct (we are dreamers) while saying that we are erroneously stuck in a mental construct (we are people). I didnt watch it to the end so I dont know if Rick was ever able to help him recognize that direct experience is possible.
    I dont mean to imply that mental constructs are useless, in fact he seems to help his clients via his construct. Its just that its not enlightenment.

  12. It seems to me that if we are to converse about such things as truth, it is a necessity to make concessions to duality. How else would one talk about anything at all?
    Saying we are dreamers or this is all a dream seems to me to be a pointer, a finger pointing at the moon. Experience is defined how WE define it. It is a huge assumption to conclude that this play in consciousness that we call life is actually a physical “real” universe where we exist “inside” of it, and that we have independent “thing in itself” existences. It seems logical that when these core assumptions are dropped, truth is revealed. Truth, not being of a mental construct can only be represented by words and therefore analogous phrases. You might say things like: All is pure consciousness; All is pure light; All is one; All is mind; etc.
    Existence akin to a dream resonates very much with me. It hints at existence being more of a play within consciousness where all “doing” is at the same time only “happening”.

  13. I feel confident that an upcoming re-interview with Timothy Freke will clarify this issue competently.

    For those of us who frequently dream lucidly with our eyes closed (AKA physiological sleep), a similar “direct experience” of this Dream can be had with our eyes open.

    Lucid Dreaming, with our eyelids open, is the direct experience that this Dream is Dream.

  14. Hi Rick, thank you for the great work you are doing. I would like to contact Dr Gregory Tucker to see if I could arrange a Skype session with him. I live in Australia. Do you have an e-mail add I could contact him on. There is a link on his site which does not seem to work. Thanks in advance

  15. Dear Rick,
    In listening to your and Dr. Gregory’s interaction, I could not help but sense somewhat of misunderstanding developing. Maybe this does not apply in your case. But I think the thing that is often misunderstood with the kind of realization Dr. Gregory is talking about, is that just because it’s fully realized that this is a dream, does not mean that the dream suddenly ceases, or even changes. The dream continues, just as before. There is absolutely no difference, except now, there’s the understanding, or conviction, if you will, that it’s a dream. And, second, that there is no personal dreamer. The dreamer itself, remains a mystery. The fact of the dream is all that can be known with certainty. And within the dream, all the same stuff happens as before.

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