Susan Raven Transcript

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Susan Raven Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually Awakening people I’ve done, about 525 of them are 530 or something by now. And if that this is new to you and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to bat gap comm bat gap and look under the past interviews menu. This program is made possible by the support of appreciative listeners and viewers so if you appreciate it and would like to support it, there is a PayPal button on every page of the site. My guest today is Susan Raven. Susan is a longtime student of anthroposophy. Is that the right pronunciation so yeah, that’s great, well done. Well done, and an experienced workshop facilitator. She has worked with the methods and exercises prescribed by Rudolf Steiner for seeing into the supersensible realms, and has also trained with Dorian Schmidt, director of the biodynamic Research Institute. Susan is author of the book, nature spirits remembrance a guide to the elemental kingdom, featured in the Cyrus mag Cygnus magazine Nexus Star in furrow and catechists. Susan is also a singer songwriter, and has produced two CDs entitled glittering cities, and Raven song, which are regularly played on local and regional radio stations, including the BBC. Sometime during this interview, we’ll play her song glittering cities, so insert it into the interview. Susan lives in Wales. And so I’ve really enjoyed reading her book during the past week. It’s filled in some gaps in my understanding, I would say. And I think that there’ll be a lot in this interview, which will be new to bat gap. But very important, I’m really glad we’re getting the opportunity to cover it. So thanks, Susan, for doing this.

Susan Raven: Thank you, thank you for asking me.

Rick Archer: By way of a little bit more introduction, let me just say that, you know, people who have listening, been listening to this show regularly have many times heard me allude to the idea that there’s a sort of a field of intelligence, or we could say field of consciousness, but it’s not merely consciousness, it’s intelligent, underlying and permeating all of creation, and their impulses within that field, which we might call laws of nature. And these impulses are responsible for the the manifestation or orchestration of the material universe are the apparent material universe. And but I don’t think we’ve ever really gone into any great detail on, you know, what these impulses are, or if they are impulses of intelligence, whether they sort of are conscious entities or what they are. And I think this is interesting, because in my understanding, or my, in my opinion, spiritual awakening includes not only awakening to one’s essential nature, the self, and maybe it’s icing on the cake, but it would be nice if it also included an experiential and intellectual understanding of mechanics of nature, how the world works. And I think that this experience and understanding could have tremendous implications for the world in which we now live and the problems that faces particularly environmental problems. So we’re going to cover that and a whole lot of other topics during this interview. But I think maybe I would like to let Susan do her own introduction here and kind of lay out the, the groundwork of what, how she came to this work, what it is and what we would like to cover today. So go ahead, Susan.

Susan Raven: Okay, well, I came to this work when I moved out of London and I moved into the Welsh Highlands and uplands and, excuse me, and it was this living life force, this quality of the landscape. That really sucks. wrote to me. And I had found my way to anthroposophy, which is the philosophy of Rudolf Steiner. And for those of you who do not know who Rudolf Steiner was, he was a great seer, a great scientist. And he’s best known for starting the Waldorf schools and Steiner education,

Rick Archer: although he was I didn’t know that that’s, that’s one of those in my town here. Right little town, 10,000 people, we have a Waldorf school.

Susan Raven: Okay, well, that’s what he’s most famous for. But he was born with a great faculty of being able to see into what I’m going to be calling the supersensible realm. And He then gave many, many lectures over his life. And he gave a lot of lectures on the structure of the spiritual world. And I’m going to call this the supersensible world and by that I’m going to be calling it the etheric life forces within the manifest and unmanifest world and what I call the astral world. So the etheric is all about color, gesture, streaming movement, and the shaping forces just beyond our visible reality. And then the astral realm is more about beings, inspiration, that feeling of being watched. Speech being space, fast space. So when I speak about the supersensible realm, I’m incorporating both both of those streams, the etheric and the astral,

Rick Archer: may interject something here, perhaps it would be useful to just say that they’re to think of creation as as having sort of a range or strata, from gross to subtle to transcendent, like we like an ocean has surface level of waves depth of the water, and then some, you know, ocean floor. And so ordinarily, you know, people’s perception is, is limited to the, the area of the waves that and they don’t, they’re not scuba divers, they don’t explore the deeper realms of the ocean. So using that metaphor, or narrowly our attention is held by the concrete material, gross surface level of perception. But there’s a vast range of subtler perception that’s possible for a human being to access. And if they do, they begin to discover all sorts of things that have been there all along, but that they and most people were totally unaware of.

Susan Raven: Yes, it’s a step down process, you can maybe condense it down to consciousness, process, form. And the whole universe is a life form. It thinks it imagines and it creates. And there’s a whole choir of intelligences, beings that implement these grand and great imaginations and these great grand ideas. And around us are the preserved imaginations of the gods. And so, I see the elemental kingdom and the nature spirits as a way of really understanding oneness because this extraordinary enigmatic word oneness, well, how are we all one? And so I see the elementals as this connective tissue. So there are the elementals have in my bones, in my blood in my skin, to air to ora tree to SAP to trunk. So it’s this whole connective tissue of beings that are upholding the imaginations and the ideas of the Creator.

Rick Archer: And what were the three words you said, from subconscious process consciousness to process to form? Oh, yeah, there’s a there’s actually Sanskrit words corresponding to that it’s Rishi, David, Dariush undoes that so they understood this and that tradition.

Susan Raven: Yeah. So and then. So with that in mind you matter doesn’t create form. It fills the spaces outlined by invisible forces.

Rick Archer: Say that again, matter doesn’t create form. It filled fills the

Susan Raven: space created. and outlined by subtle beings and forces.

Rick Archer: So then you would say that all matter, this book, for instance, explained it in terms of this book, as an example.

Susan Raven: Right. Or you could all with a plant, so, okay, yes, or the plant or a book is that

Susan Raven: you have the ideal of the plant, this is the original ideal of the higher hierarchies. And this is raining down on the earth. And you have elementals, for instance, around the space of a plant, you have the seed in the earth, and you have elementals around the earth. And as that seed comes up, it fills the spaces of the prototype and of the idea of the plant.

Rick Archer: So, to put it in other words, you could say perhaps that the plant has a subtle body, which is not material, and that that subtle body exists whether or not the material plant has come into existence, but material plant comes into existence in correlation with the subtle body of the plant, would that be correct?

Susan Raven: Yes. And that subtle body is a mixture of streaming, it’s streaming its color. When you begin to develop this process of actually seeing into the etheric field, which is this field of subtle color movement streaming, you begin to see, as you say, this ideal form of the plant, this subtle form of the plant, that the form then goes into film

Rick Archer: wasn’t a Plato who talked about ideal forms.

Susan Raven: Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah. And, and so with the book, I mean, it’s being held in its integrity, by gravity. And so we will be talking about the Earth elementals, they are the ones that look after gravity. And so I mean, I can go into the four different elements and the elementals that are aligned to it. Would you like me to do that? Shall I do that?

Rick Archer: Let’s unfortunate, a little bit more, a little bit more, we’ll definitely get into that. I mean, I’m thinking now of, you know, what science would say about this book, which is that as you go into the microscopic, it becomes less and less a material thing, and more and more empty space. And that anything which appears to be material is just some kind of probability wave or something. That there’s there’s really nothing substantial. It’s all just probabilities, and something somehow congealed into something that appears physical. I think that that probably correlates with what you’re saying about the Elementals. And all.

Susan Raven: Yes, they’re sort of hovering between the end folded and the unfolded, the implicit and the explicit there on that cutting edge. They are the last reverberation of the cosmic creative word that underlies all existence. They are that last vibration before things drop down from the wave to the particle

Rick Archer: to that like middlemen in a way between the unmanifest and the manifest. Yeah. Yeah. And as such, they play a role in connecting the two, or bringing, you know things into manifestation and then conducting their existence once their manifest, I would presume?

Susan Raven: Yes, it’s, it’s like the architect and the is the architect. There’s the project manager, and then there’s the workers. And they’re, they’re the sort of the last reverberation. Now the one holding the integrity of form.

Rick Archer: Actually, that leads to a question that I had in the back of my mind, the architect, the project manager and the workers. In much of your book when you talk about the elementals they sound to be to me to be rather microscopic, or at least very small, like there might be elementals around a bird or a single flower or a bee or something like that. But it would also seem to me that as we go into larger and larger structures, they would have their corresponding intelligence or Deva or something that oversees them, like you know, the, the entire Earth or the entire galaxy or absolutely, that kind of thing. There must be hierarchies of larger and more powerful or more influential beings that cause respond to every size of structure and creation.

Susan Raven: Yes, now when I speak about the size of elementals, I always stop and I say, may I have permission to speak about your size. Because we as humans love to fit everything into a concept. We like concepts that fit, which we have to soften them, we have to soften that demand to have things fit a shape, and the size. Because in in some ways, it’s almost bad manners in this realm to be demanding to know what a shape and the size of an elemental or nature spirit is, you’re going into this highly conductive, highly sensitive realm of extreme intelligence and extreme feeling. So with permission to say what size they are, they are many sizes and they can change size. But is your right there are the smaller ones that are holding this integrity. And then there are the larger ones, you can have a nature spirit, it’s between an elemental and a nature spirit. And I would say an elemental are the smaller ones. The nature spirits are are bigger there are overseeing a community of Elementals. So for instance, a tree spirit or nature, spirit of a tree would be overseeing the elementals of the undines of the sap the liquid. The gnomes have the roots and the bark. They would be overseeing this selves who are the light bearers, and the salamanders or fire spirits, who are taking care of the generative warmth, that ripens the fruit and creates the seeds. So you’d have an overarching intelligence. And also, you’d then have the bigger if you like, or those who oversee a larger space, for instance, the what, what we would call a genius loci or spirit of place. My Each area has this genius loci or overarching spirit of place that is overseeing the Elementals. And nature spirits have a particular area. And for on my path, this has been a really important relationship with the genus loci, that is through the genus loci that I’ve been allowed to enter the mysteries further and further into the intelligence of the land, and its Elementals.

Rick Archer: So you say that that kind of corresponds a little bit to human geography that Wales has a genus loci and, and Scotland has one and yes, you know, South Africa in different places, and

Susan Raven: experience, they’re called folk spirits. If you’re, if you’re talking about a large country, one would call it a folk spirit, a genus loci is more like us. Again, you’re making me you’re forcing me into giving Weights and Measures and numbers, all that lightly. Yeah. It’s it’s a breathing, moving living thing. Sure.

Rick Archer: They don’t fight. They don’t fight over boundaries, like the Israelis and Palestinians or something.

Susan Raven: No. So for instance, the genius loci that I’m in constant contact with, I would say, is about a two to three mile radius. It’s over overlooking my particular area that I live in.

Rick Archer: One thing you notice as you travel from country to country is that there’s often and even sometimes from town to town, is that there’s quite a different feeling, even even sometimes when you cross a border. So do the, whatever the impulse of intelligence would be that corresponds to the collective consciousness of a particular town or country. Do they somehow organize themselves to to focus their jurisdiction on jurisdictions that humans themselves have somewhat arbitrarily formed over the years?

Susan Raven: Yes, I mean, social activity, calls in a new being a new being appears with a social activity. For instance, It can be a physical social activity of a gathering of people in a village or a time. It can also be an initiative. For instance, the initiative of Buddha at the Gas Pump a few days ago. I said, with warmth and respect, May I meet the being of butter at the gas pump. And there is a strong and light filled and gracious being that is well and truly formed from your years of work of interview. Interesting. And

Rick Archer: yeah. And the thing where if you had like a rock concert or something a being formed around the collective consciousness of that group that has assembled,

Susan Raven: yes, and then it can disperse but something which is ongoing, for instance, if your initiative or something like anthroposophy. It’s it’s a very well established being.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Now, the question that I wanted to ask you a few minutes ago, I don’t want to lose is, you know, you’re talking about a tree, for instance, and how the different elementals, which we’ll get into in a few minutes, are responsible for different aspects of its functioning. Are there also this would somehow relate to things Rupert Sheldrake says, would there be some kind of other elemental or some sort of impulse of consciousness that would correspond to an entire species of trees, or let’s say, the entire species of birds, say, geese, there’s geese worldwide have a certain date that is corresponding to them?

Susan Raven: Yes, it is, or the being that who brought forth the idea of the goose, it is the archetype of the goose, or the archetype. And these are again, we’ll go back to play Plato and his he docks, his ideas, these are the great beings who are overseeing the becomings.

Rick Archer: There was an interesting article, I came across a while back, and I actually sent this to Rupert Sheldrake, where some species of bird or something which had completely gone extinct, in some Indian Ocean Island or someplace, actually came back back into existence. And it was, it was clear that it couldn’t have come in from any sort of hidden birds that had been forgotten about, I mean, it was really extinct. But this thing was, again began to be found. And Rupert found that fascinating, he thought it sort of validated the concept of there being a collective consciousness or whatever of that. Species that

Susan Raven: Yeah, I think I think many of the, you could say like the angels of a particular species, or the, the archetype of the being who gave of the archetype of a particular animal, they’ve pulled them out of the physical world, but they’re ready in the etheric and astral to come back in again.

Rick Archer: Hmm, interesting. So theoretically, dodo birds, dinosaurs and all kinds of species, which may or may not ever come back, we wouldn’t necessarily want them to. They’re still the template of those on some Yes.

Susan Raven: And also, they’re becoming their potential of becoming road, right? I wouldn’t, I would say they’re just out of the physical world and into this life force world, which is the the etheric world and astral world. They’re just they’re pulled back. Because it’s, you know, the conditions here are so appalling in certain places where they used to live, I feel that is very much a truth that they will come back. But what comes back has to align with what our karma is and conditions on Earth and

Rick Archer: yeah, right. I mean, okay, good. We got that point. All right. So a few minutes ago, you want to start getting into some details, and I really just wrote me a note, she said, The Dodo birds have taken human form.

Rick Archer: Good one. Okay, so you wanted to get into some details about different types of Elementals. I believe that I kind of postpone you a bit so we can start to get into that now.

Susan Raven: Right. Okay. Um, well, I think first of all, I’m going to give you I’m going to run through actually what an elemental is. And this came to me for quite a while, because the impulse to write this book was to really make the whole process of understanding the elementals and the nature spirits, a much easier process for people to come to and also those who actually believe in elementals and nature spirits. They need to find a vocabulary that has helps them into this world.

Rick Archer: And since you said the word belief, I just want to throw in that everything we’re talking about here is really not something to be believed in or disbelieved in, take it as a hypothesis, you know, take it as something that potentially you could explore empirically, or experientially explore, you know, given the right unfoldment of your capacities. And you know, you can be as skeptical as you like, but if you possibly were to do XY and Z over a period of time, you would begin to acquire the ability to experience the things we’re talking about if in fact, they truly exist.

Susan Raven: Yeah, I mean, there is, there are so many people who have been torn, David Spangler. Oh, my, yeah, who’s very highly skilled see this, I feel it is an A consequence of a path of taking your path of enlightenment, it is a consequence, you will come to see these beings, you will come even if it’s not seeing them, communicating and feeling with them. And having a knowingness about their existence is a consequences, a consequence of it,

Rick Archer: and also influencing them and being influenced by them. There’s a verse in The Gita, which says something about how you support the gods and they support you. There’s this reciprocal kind of relationship that develops?

Susan Raven: Absolutely, it’s this plural plurality of nature, spirits and elementals that are, that are longing and aching for a co creative relationship with human beings. Because for years and years we’ve been we’ve been waiting, we’ve been measuring. We’ve been thinking about explaining and philosophizing, and talking about stuff, is now time to talk to stuff. Yeah. And it’s because there is predefined truth. When you can find this thread of pure attentiveness from your heart or from your body and sending it into the phenomena of nature. And along this thread of attentiveness, if you’re quiet and still enough, and you have enough love and respect and gratitude, you will begin to get the wisdom of nature in its purest form. And it won’t just come in words, it comes in a whole range of feelings, symbols, because the nature spirits, they read us, not the words, it’s the feelings that coat the words. So there’s this whole palette of feeling. And then one mixes this all together with symbols, I don’t like to use the word download, a lot of people use the word download, I prefer to say a gift of advanced comprehension. Which brings feeling symbology, and words and messaging as well. And we are so starved of truth. There are so many lies spinning around the planet. And this is having a really detrimental effect on the etheric field of the Earth and the astral field of of the earth. And there is a deep and profound hunger in people to know the truth. When you begin to open up and build these capacities, of communication with nature, you receive pure truth. And one gets kind of truth in a language that you don’t use between human and human. And this if anything should be or needs to be an impulse, why we go into this world is to gather truth, a kind of truth that comes from nature herself. So it is learning this new vocabulary, which uses the whole body as an instrument as of diagnosis. I mean, there are many of course, we have some highly sophisticated sensors that can pick up all sorts of things. But they don’t really pick up the elementals yet,

Rick Archer: are you me? Because the led me and man made technical sensors. Yeah, sure, like X ray machines or whatever. Yeah. I mean, sometimes

Susan Raven: we take something like biophotons they’re so close to what for instance, Rudolf Steiner would describe the sylphs. But they’re not the same thing. You can’t say the same thing. We as human beings are advanced enough, if our organs of perception and our capacities for seeing into these subtle realms are awoken and nurtured. We can then begin to go into this realm and access pure truth. And this is what we are so hungry for, at the moment,

Rick Archer: I love this point. It’s one that I’ve thought about a lot over the years, if, if you think about it, that the human nervous system, even a single cell in the human nervous system is more complex than any instrument that mankind has been able to build. It’s more complex than the Large Hadron Collider. Now, obviously, instruments like that, and microscopes and telescopes and so on, they they serve particular functions that the human nervous system and body was they weren’t, weren’t designed to perform. But that this instrument, the human nervous system, has capabilities that manmade instruments will never be able to perform. And you’ve just been getting it that really. And I was engaged in some conversation with somebody on Facebook a while ago, and he was saying, how do you know that all this stuff that we talked about, with spirituality, all the different things is not just some kind of function of brain chemistry, that’s, that’s imaginary. And as gratifying as it may be, has no correlation with reality. And I was a little bit hard pressed to answer him. But I think you helped to do that just now, which is that we, if if this instrument is properly refined, and attuned, it actually can know truth, it can tune into a level of nature, which is real and true, and know it with with greater certainty, than, ordinarily, we can know anything.

Susan Raven: Okay, and there’s ways of verifying this, the more you do this work, and it’s opening up the imagination to accommodate these realities. And just, you have to almost neutralize knowledge, you have to go into a place a complete, no bias, unbiased, right, neutralize this knowledge. And you have to clear this stage, within your inner life, to allow what these beings wish to convey to us. Now, our ancient ancestors were highly tuned into nature. And they were working with the elementals and the nature spirits. And we lost that capacity in our in the cycles of evolution in order to develop the intellect. And now it’s time to use this highly, highly sophisticated intellect we have and shoot it through with feeling sensing. Use this intellect alongside our ability, our ability to be an empath to have empathy. So, when one begins to get a message, or symbology, or answers when when sends out questions to the elementals you begin to develop the capacity to know what is fantasy, what is truth, what is imagination, and when you are being influenced in a impure way, because not all elementals are not the not all nature spirits and elementals are working for what I would call heavenly ruling. Well,

Rick Archer: they have with you also. Yeah,

Susan Raven: they’re working with impure human well, so how do you know? So I’m going to anticipate the question, how do you know that what you’re receiving is the truth. If you get images, if you stop in your imagination in you start trying to pull them into something else and they keep snapping back. That’s one way. Another way. When either if you’re out in nature, or you’re doing some research, and you receive an imagination and it gives you an energy you feel a real sweetness from it. Its has a giving quality, something that is impure and that is illusion is true.

Rick Archer: aching from you. You might feel drained or something. Yeah, it’s

Susan Raven: taking from me. And also, if you have a being that comes into your inner screen with a message, who am I working with? That’s the first question. Who am I working with? This is if you’re unsure, yeah. Well, my working with what’s your mood? They don’t like to be followed with that question. What is your mood? And so these are sort of three immediate things I would use to find it. Is this authentic? And is this real. And after a while, if you’ve been doing it long enough, you know. And also, it’s, it’s working. When I say working, exploring, there’s the solitary path. And a lot of my life is a solitary path, walking these uplands, and communicating with the nature spirits. And, you know, I’ve had many profound experiences that break the heart, and also inspire song. But I think what’s really key is when groups of people come together, who are developing these capacities, and we set about it and experimentation and an investigation, like looking into tree disease, or animal disease, and communicate communicating with the being of the disease itself. Because there is a being of a disease, and it’s summoning this being and, and speaking with it. And then when you have, let’s say, 1012 20 people all doing the same work, and we all come in with very similar similar symbols, messages, feelings, sensing, then the skeptic has to take this seriously.

Rick Archer: Yeah. That’s the scientific method. Replicate. Yeah, right.

Susan Raven: It’s replication part is like, is this real? Do I believe in it? Does it correlate with others? And is it repeatable? Those, those are the main scientific mandates? But you have to be very careful with this. Is it repeatable?

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Susan Raven: Bad manners. Why did you ask me twice? I’ve given you the answer. They don’t know. They don’t understand why we do triple blind twist testing. Yeah. Why have you asked me, you’re dealing with beings that are, they’re not human beings, it’s you. You’re dealing with something as highly conductive, highly sensitive. And they don’t live by our rules. And therefore, that’s why we have to neutralize knowledge. I mean, when I go, when we go into an experimentation of, let’s say, looking into a plant disease or an animal disease, I don’t research it beforehand. I go in completely neutralizing the knowledge, begin to get images and messages in. And then I do the research afterwards to sort of try to work out what Nether material I’ve received.

Rick Archer: The thing you said about repeating reminds me of a story I heard the other day where somebody did a DMT trip. And this being came to him and said, This is not the way don’t do it this way. And then a few weeks later, he did another DM treat the teacher and same being paid him said, Hey, I told you not to do it this way. A question came in, let me just pop this in here. Before we go on. This is from Carol. She wants to know, do we know what she means that they oversee the Elementals? What does oversee mean?

Susan Raven: Okay, so I would say that the nature spirit is is an organizing intelligence. It’s receiving the prototype or the ideal form from the higher hierarchies. And it’s let’s say for instance, you have a nature spirit of a rock. It holds the memory of the evolution of that particular area. It’s overseen the setting of limits to matter. It is and by that word overseeing it is Holding the wisdom of the phenomena.

Rick Archer: Okay, hopefully that answers Carol’s question. I have another question for Shall I ask it? Or do you want to say something more right now?

Susan Raven: If ask if there’s more, she wants to know from that.

Rick Archer: Okay, another question for me, you were talking about how the time has come when we’ve, I forget how you said it. But if we, if we look at historically how, you know, there were, apparently ancient cultures that had a lot of wisdom. And then we got into the Middle Ages, and we got into the sort of the Inquisition and very fundamentalist religious attitudes, and all sorts of bizarre ideas about the truth, which many of which still exist in, in certain circles. And then the scientific revolution came about, and, you know, scientists, the people who initiated that, say, wait a minute, you know, we’re going to just somehow do this more objectively, and systematically, we’re going to try to exclude subjectivity, because it’s so sub, it’s so vulnerable to delusion, and try to sort of figure out what’s actually going on in the world. And to a great extent, this has worked, you know, all the technologies and that we see in the world today are as an outcome of that initiative. But underlying that initiative, Descartes, and being largely responsible, is the notion that the world is inanimate, it’s done stuff, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s just matter. And we and springing from that assumption, is the the feeling that we can do whatever we want with it, you know, extract whatever resources and, you know, dig up the Earth here and burn down this thing there, and, and so on. And that has brought us literally to the brink of extinction, in my opinion, if not extinction, then tremendous catastrophe. So what you were saying a few minutes ago is interesting, because you’re what you’re saying is that there’s now a new stream entering collective consciousness or human mentality, which hopefully will remedy, this imbalanced situation that we find ourselves in? So let’s talk about that a little bit. I’m sure you can take it from here.

Susan Raven: Yes, well, I will. First of all, I’ll talk about our way of looking it is the way of looking which came with the whole impulse of science, or through from the Rene suns, and through the Victorian times, we really don’t know the power of the human gaze really don’t know how powerful that is. And we’ve been taught a way of looking at things. And as you’ve pointed out, we’ve been taught a way of looking at Earth’s beauty and grace as mere resource. And that way of looking has been taught over generations. And therefore it’s kind of condensed, it has had an effect on nature, it’s pushed and expelled the beings from nature, so that they’re actually sort of in this kind of limbo, because we haven’t acknowledged them. And our way of looking, we stamp nature with a kind of form, with our way of looking. So when we begin to look in a different way, and we begin to accommodate the idea that it is a living intelligence, these beings will then actually be able to come back into nature, and we will be able to perceive them, sense them and feel them much more.

Rick Archer: That’s interesting. So in other words, if we, if we regard nature as dumb stuff that you know, that has no sentience, no, no innate intelligence, then it almost we almost create that reality. We exactly dies Yeah, we put the intelligence into remission, or into into submission and, and that we create that reality for ourselves.

Susan Raven: Absolutely. So we need this new way of looking. That’s that, you know, part of the way it’s developing our capacities, developing a new way of looking that allows these beings to thrive. And what was the what was the rest of the question?

Rick Archer: You ask you some more, that’ll help out. So we were talking a little bit before we started the interview, just on you know, you and I together, about In the environmental situation and how, you know, there’s a, there’s a group here called these days called extinction rebellion. And there are a number of you know, and they’re not just kind of crazy teenagers, there’s a number of very serious, well credentialed climatologist who feel that we’ve brought our species and many other species along with us to the brink of extinction. And if you look at the data, it’s a little hard to argue with them at least argue with the possibility that they may be right. And I’ve often said on this show that I, you know, I acknowledge that and it’s a grave concern. But I feel that somehow this spiritual awakening that seems to be happening around the world, is not coincidental. It’s it’s kind of nature’s response to the mess we’ve made. And that in ways I don’t thoroughly understand, it may save the day. And I think perhaps you can elaborate on that with reference to the elementals and the elemental impulses of intelligence which orchestrate our world.

Susan Raven: Okay. Rudolf Steiner said that, at this particular point in time, the beginning of the 21st century, there will be a new entrance of some new elementals he called them the Christ and Elementals. In and that these elementals would permeate science they would, there would be a chemistry, permeated by a Christ impulse, there will be a physics, there will be social activity that will be permeated by the Christ impulse. Now, those are his words, we can see this everywhere with it the ascension, the idea that we are ascending, whether you call it the Christ, or the Mercy of Allah, or the anoon, whatever it is, whatever path that is, we are being permeated by new Elementals. And you can see this in the scientific work coming from Paul Violetta, for instance, with the Super waves that are coming into the earth, these massive out breaths. And you can also see it in ancient prophecy. I mean, David Wilcock has done a great work with His Ascension Mysteries book about bringing in how so many of the ancient prophecies would speak of this time, and that there would be this huge fire from the sun or they will be this solar cleansing, where the righteous would be lifted and the evil would be burned. But essentially, this correlates with Rudolf Steiner saying we would have this new, out breath of elementals and nature spirits that would bring a new way. And we’d support nature in this dilemma, because the Earth is groaning for us to wake up. And so that there’s that, Tom terminology, the new elementals coming in.

Rick Archer: You do say something, I think in your book, and I’ve read it elsewhere, that there’s a phenomenon associated with the precession of the equinoxes, in which a vast stream of subtle energy is supposed to hit us from the center of the galaxy or some such thing. And that’s supposed to have a profound, transformative and enlivening effect on us all.

Susan Raven: Yes, and that was part of the suit the super wave, and I interpret that with the hierarchy, higher hierarchies and outbreath from them, and these new elementals that are coming to help nature at the moment, and also in again, in anthroposophy Rudolf Steiner speaks about the angels coming closer and closer to us at the moment, and how we are being met by our efforts, our efforts to reconnect with nature, our efforts in morality, and our efforts to ascend, all the effort that we make is going to be met with angelic response. That means even more so than before.

Rick Archer: I pulled a few quotes from your book. Here’s something from page 151. First you quote Eckhart Tolle is saying, humanity is faced with a stark choice, evolve or die. And then you go on to say at some point in the millennia to come, the drawbridge between the upward and downward path will be pulled up. Those who have consistently served the gods of unremitting materialism will lose their chance to evolve into the next stage of human evolution, a new species of human is emerging, and the old ways will no longer serve us. The new path of service is one where we serve the greater whole, and those who cannot bear the light of the new consciousness will incarnate elsewhere, humanity as a species will begin to split. So there’s that. And and just an addendum to that question. I’m wondering how, you know, you’re talking about the angels moving closer to the earth, and this higher consciousness coming in and, and all the elementals getting enlivened? I’m wondering how that will actually play out in terms of, if you can say, in terms of things on the concrete level that that need to change institutions, systems, and so on, that have no place in a more enlightened world and practices, the burning of fossil fuels? I mean, you know, are people just going to wake up one day and say, Oh, this was wrong, let’s change it? Or are they going to be kind of be forced to change it? Because, well, I just read a book called This changes everything by Naomi Klein, it’s basically capitalism versus the climate is the subtitle. And she’s saying, if we don’t change it voluntarily, we’re going to be forced to change it. Because the situation as it exists is so completely untenable that it’s going to just, it’s going to shoot itself in the foot and cause its own destruction.

Susan Raven: Absolutely. I mean, I’m going to bring in a Blackboard drone buried our Steiner drone, you see this?

Rick Archer: Yeah, hold it up closer see, it looks good.

Susan Raven: I think this is for good for people to see that that is a blackboard drawing of his. And in that drawing, he says that at this time, there’ll be a splitting the splitting of humanity. And then our angels will have to go with us, wherever we choose. And there will be this upward path of a new evolution, and then the downward path into materialism. But I think everyone will evolve, it’s just at different paces of time. And how easy it’s going to be is going to be how many of us begin to, as I say, connect with the earth and speak to her as a living being, and speak to her legions of nature, spirits and Elementals. And work with her, because she knows exactly how to get through this. And we can learn from her. As I said, we can think and explain and philosophize about things, but you can’t get to the essence that way. You have to use different capacities. And it has been so mind dominated, for so long, that we need to be using heart capacities, we need to be using all our chakras, as I say, as these sensors. And we need to be speaking to the earth and all her ecosystems, to get the resolutions and the solutions to get us out of this difficulty. And it’s possible, it’s very possible.

Rick Archer: One thing I would add is that the key to doing what you just said, I think, is to get in touch with the self capital S self, you know, into your consciousness to, to get to the very root of our being. And then once we have located that and learn to operate from there, we can get to the core, or the essence of the world at large.

Susan Raven: Oh, yes, we need to be working on ourselves in order that we can tune ourselves to the bandwidth. And we are looking at our morality of diet, everything to as I say, to make this instrument of diagnosis as effective as possible. The main path, the CH ship, the Rudolf Steiner provides and the one that I’ve gone on is the path, the six steps of path of self development. And I’ll just quickly go through those. This is objectivity of thinking. So most of our thinking is just swinging around. It’s very difficult to really control our thinking. So there’s exercises of taking an object, holding it and thinking of nothing but that object let’s say a match for instance, for five minutes. You don’t let any thought to go off the match the entire history it’s one logical thought after the other for five minutes. And this creates a sort of clearance around the head, because usually the head, there’s this intense weaving light around the head in our thinking. And we need to just get this light to be as calm and as poised as possible. And that’s just holding this object. Once it was a tree, it was a seed, it was a tree, it was cut down, you go through the whole history of this match until it’s lit for five minutes. And as soon as it brings this clearance in the head, the second while,

Rick Archer: you’re focused, obviously, I mean, it kind of reminds you the difference between ordinary light and laser light laser light is is it’s photons just like ordinary light is. But it’s coherent photons, it’s photons, which have gone into synchrony synchronicity with one another.

Susan Raven: So you’re working on any this clearance that I’m this the most important thing, your room of thinking becomes clear and poised. Then the second one is about exercising your memory. I will do something at 11 o’clock, I will touch my ear. And I will do I’d make this meeting with myself. And I will endeavor to keep that meeting you get at 11 o’clock, I’ve touched my ear. I’ve done what I’ve said I was going to do. I’ve remembered I’ve stretched my memory, do you

Rick Archer: set a reminder or you just actually remember to check the time?

Susan Raven: No, it’s when you start, you forget. And of course everybody goes, I’m hopeless I can’t do it, which is you can’t allow yourself to indulge yourself with that. I start off by saying tomorrow, I will touch my ear at some point. And then I come down into meeting it at a particular time. Again, something happens and this little subtle shift in the soul happens when you begin to do this. And then the next thing is control of feeling. And these are exercises where you you summon joy, for instance, you think about something that has brought you great joy, you summon the memories, you drop the memory, and you then experience and focus on pure feeling. What is joy doing with me now. And you’re sensing these great clouds of feeling around the chest. And you sit in it. And it’s like pilot waves just experiencing pure feeling. Because we don’t we so rarely, it’s always has thoughts and memories with it. It’s learning the craft of pure feeling. And then you try something like sorrow and just see how it affects your body and sorrow is a real gravity driven, it can pull you right down. So that when you’re actually it nature, you will get feeling pulses. And when you’re exercising your feelings through all these extremes, you then begin to have a whole palette of different feelings that you can then receive from nature. And then the fourth one is seek truth, beauty and goodness. And that’s, you know, the positivity, whatever’s happening to you. What am I learning here? You know, what’s the gift? What’s, what’s the miracle in this dilemma or this calamity? I mean, you know, that’s a lot of spiritual parts of that. It’s always seeking the positivity. And then there is the fifth one is open mindedness, impartiality, taking all sides. And I know that that’s definitely an ethos for but the gasp I mean, on your home page. It has to be let’s take all sides. Walk in the other person’s shoes.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, that’s why that is that if you really want to if you’re interested in enlightenment, then what is it? It’s it’s actually becoming the totality and what is the totality do it actually incorporates all diversity is howsoever divergent and contrasting or paradoxical? They may be?

Susan Raven: Yes. And it’s really entering them. And if you’ve if you’ve had an argument, maybe that person was right, I’m going to just stand in their shoes and be them and look at me, you know, I mean, there’s a German, German word unbefitting, and height. And when you speak these words, they appear on the inner screen as colors and forms. So you begin to see words as forms. And again, this is the language and the vocabulary of the nature spirits. And then the six, which is quite advanced, it’s just collating all of these and finding out what the next question is going to be. Once you’ve accommodated all these six steps to self development, but after a while, you’ve actually then tuned yourself into this hopefully, moral, joyful, unbiased, human being with an open mind, ready to have a loving interaction with nature, and had her intelligence and her beings that would

Rick Archer: say, it’s a lifelong process. It’s not like you’ve ever done it, to the extent that it could possibly be done. There’s, it’s like education or, you know, someone might say, Well, I’m educated, I’m completely educated, how ridiculous. I can’t learn anything more. Yeah, yeah. That’s great. I love those.

Susan Raven: But especially the feeling, that’s the that, I mean, we do hours and hours of this work of word meditation, for instance. And also, it’s working with time. I mean, we would meditate. I mean, for instance, when you next to your two hours meditation or your game, what were these words, having time having time and just have a real experience of what time actually looks like, how it manifests itself in color and form. So I give you an example of an interaction with a genius loci, and what can actually come from building up a relationship. Sure, in that way,

Rick Archer: yes, please. And I thought of a question during our little break, and I will ask it, but you go ahead and say your thing first, and I’ll just bring my question and when it’s relevant,

Susan Raven: okay, so the genius loci is the spirit of a place. And each of us we all live in a location, there will be a spirit of place, wherever you live, whether it’s a city or it’s the uplands, it doesn’t matter where there will be this spirit of place. And asking to have a meeting. With this being genius loci, I respectfully asked to have a meeting with you. So you send that this question. So when I arrived in this particular area, that was my question, genus loci, I respectfully asked for a meeting. And almost every day I am in a prayerful conversation, or interaction with this genius loci. So why do I do it? One because I’m constantly giving thanks for the beauty that is around me. We have this beautiful water coming up from our own spring, you have this amazing landscape so I mean, in the state of gratitude and then it’s What can I do for you genius loci and you then immediately get an answer. But then after a while, for instance, I would go out for a walk and I’d feel an enormous pressure to go to a particular place and this is one example enormous pressure to go down a hill to a particular place. Why am I being taken here? Why are you guiding me here? What is this incredible pressure I am feeling from you to go to this particular place so when I arrived and I felt this being say stop and then I looked down into a little Dell and there were bags and bags of dead lambs thrown baby. Yeah, okay. Friend thrown by rogue farmers, because they did not want to have that tea. They did not want to pay the money to have them taken away. So they pile them all into these bags and thrown them into this Dell. Also So, the British Telecom man had been working on some of the cables. And they just left lots and lots of bits of cable, and they thrown it down into this gel.

Rick Archer: A little ravine, I suppose,

Susan Raven: a little ravine, yes. And you’d never seen that if you driven by, you wouldn’t have seen it if you’d walked by. But here was this deeply wounded, polluted place that was causing immense stress in the nature realms, both physically and in the supersensible spiritual realm as well. So with my interaction, I was in put to work. So when we’re sort of thinking, Well, what can we do how I mean, what can I actually do if you connect with your genius loci, after a while you’re directed what you can do to be of use and to be of service?

Rick Archer: Alright, so obviously, they’re messes like that around the world that are not hidden. You know, we have the Alberta tar sands being dug up, we have their copper mines in Mexico that are 100 square kilometers, there’s the Amazon burning Australia burning, even the Arctic is burning in certain places. There’s a plastic garbage patch in the Pacific, that’s twice the size of Texas. So, you know, there are all these situations. So what does the what to the genus loci of those places? Think about that? And what, what, obviously, I think they would like us to clean them up or stop causing the destruction. But it’s easier said than done. So how would you say that kind of thing,

Susan Raven: okay, so it’s very, very easy to be utterly overwhelmed, and then be just be frozen. That was a small thing was in my small area, took me a day to click through the probe us to clean it up and sorted out and to sing songs, sing songs, but the Rescue Remedy, and just generally bring these elementals and the nature spirits back into a health bearing place. With a massive, as you say, open mining. I think this is why we get so many weather alarm anomalies. And why we get volcanoes and this disruption it is the anger of the gods or it is the anger of the nature spirits. But there is an enormous amount of support to because technically few we’re going to look at this in a purely physical way the whole planet would have died by now. If it had not been, I would say from the angelic and the nature realms upholding and absorbing our immorality or our thoughtlessness.

Rick Archer: I wonder if they’ve even had a hand in averting nuclear war? Which, yes, could have quite suddenly killed the planet?

Susan Raven: Yes, many people say that the off planet races are responsible for that. But you know, there are huge vast nature spirits that are created when a nuclear power station is built,

Rick Archer: that are created. Yes, good ones or bad ones?

Susan Raven: Well, what’s good what are,

Rick Archer: you know, you spoke of malevolent nature spirits and, and benevolent ones. So when something like a nuclear power plant or, you know, a huge open pit mine or something that is great to do sort of malevolent spirits congregate there and are what,

Susan Raven: again, it can be the nature of the behavior of the human beings on the site. Because some, some you could say that some of these open minds are needed. If they’re needed, yeah. You could say they’re needed at this point in our evolution.

Rick Archer: Yeah, maybe needed to create things that we don’t really need that but given what we think we need, they’re needed.

Susan Raven: Yeah. I’ll give you an example. I want another conversation with the genus loci. I was had to do a conference about nature spirits, the reality and the responsibility and I asked the genus loci, where should I go to get my talk? What do You want me to say, and he was I expecting to go off to an ancient and beautiful woodland, I was taken off to an open landfill site, the genus loci said, go to the landfill site, meet the elementals there, learn from the elementals of that landfill site. So getting access to it, I had to connect with the organizers of the landfill. And I said, I’m an industrial artist, may I please go on to this land? Because I can’t say I’m going to go and speak to the infants. Sadly, one day we will. So I went into this landfill site and let’s not sweetness at all utter filth. We have the nappies, the plastic, the filth, the black leech water coming out of the hill, we’d had storms and rain, the place was the stench was unbelievable in this place. And I just was there for about two hours meditating on the elementals in this place. And then the trucks came in with the new load. They emptied the load. And it emerged like a sort of sleeping goddess, it seems to mirror all these beautiful Welsh hills surrounding it. A mare in the middle of this landfill. Was this sleeping Goddess of all our rubbish, surrounded by black stench leech water. And so my question to the Elementals. And to this being of all our rubbish was, what do you represent? What do you represent? What is your relationship to humans? And the message and the heightened communication that I received was, I represent a chronic epidemic of self sabotage. She was sick, and she was ill. And I said, How do you feel myself lies lamenting on the ground, raise it. So these deep and profound connections that we can have if we find this stillness. But what was the what was redeeming this place? One, it was the nature spirits of the surrounding hills, we’re just sending in what I would call these beams of support that this particular area. So the nature spirits come in and me, they support it. And it was also the morality and the behavior and the manners of the people who worked in that landfill site. Never underestimate the attitude of the human being and how powerful that is. All of those men in on that site. One, they were really polite. They had a great sense of humor. The manager Tony took me around the whole place and really gave me time explaining everything was and how it all worked. There was a chivalry there, there was no Iris, the sole female and there was no nonsense at all.

Susan Raven: And also, there were some young men there who built up this incredible skill, for instance of winding strawberry nets into these really compact balls so that they would make a small amount of space as possible when they went into the landfill. So it was this attitude of human beings that created a moral sort of morphic field to counteract this result of our chronic self sabotage, sabotage is a physical form. So

Rick Archer: when you say that it almost makes me feel like the human beings working there were kindred spirits of the elementals who were trying to pour in life into the area, that they’re just sort of on the same basic wavelength trying to make the best of the bad situation.

Susan Raven: Yeah, I mean that doing the best they can, their sense of humor, and they’re, they’re doing a good job with a bad symptom of our chronic self sabotage. So, so that’s an example. So, it’s very easy and you can say, well, that Opencast mine is horrendous. What are the human beings like in there? Are they doing their very best? And also, one has to remember that these really big nature spirits that oversee a huge area, they’re out of space and time they’re out of time. They’re seeing this, this incident as possibly a punctuation in equilibrium. But it comes to the point how much can nature bear our thoughtlessness I mean, learning about elementals has much learning about and actually having an experience of them has much more power than moral sermons, because we get to have a physical and very real response to our thoughtlessness. And, for instance, with the experiments, we’ve done contacting tree diseases, summoning and speaking to the disease’s themselves, this is extraordinary. For instance, there’s the sudden oak death, and we have the ash die back. These are two very, very pernicious and difficult diseases at the moment.

Rick Archer: There we have the emerald ash borer over here, which is basically wiping out all the ash trees, they’ll probably go extinct at the rate things are going

Susan Raven: Yeah, ruled by the sun. And the the the sun, you know, the rays coming in the sun were being deeply distorted by radio waves, deeply distorted by the geoengineering and the chem trails. So the wisdom of light, pure ideal, and the idea of the ash tree, the idea that is gating through the sun onto the earth and onto the trees, that pure signal is being scrambled not only by the geoengineering, but also, this was one thing that came up very strongly when we spoke to the being of the ash die back, it is the amount of lying, lying creates a substance in the soul field of the Earth, these huge morphic fields of thought forms, if they are lies, they have a profound effect on the health, the physical health of nature. And, of course, in the past 2030 years, lies can go around the planet so quickly, and they can be believed by a huge amount of peoples very, very quickly, so that they create these really solid thought forms. But luckily enough, with the truth media, there’s a huge effort, some wonderful sites that are doing their very best to pull apart the mainstream media stories. These thought forms are actually not so heavy now. But all these things have an effect on the health of nature. And something like the sudden oak death that was similar, that disease spoke about the amount of sorrow, incredible sorrow there is on earth, one for the endless wars and loss of life, and illness. Were so ill, I mean, human beings are so ill. However, these all of these diseases, although they may have a different vocabulary, the basic answer they all give as to why the you hear disease is we fill the space you leave behind. We create the conditions for these elementals which are the primary force for the disease to actually exist.

Rick Archer: So let me point of clarification so you’re saying that if there’s a lot of lying going on, as there certainly is in the world today or if there is a lot of sorrow or trauma of some sort, that can actually take form as a disease that might wipe out a species of tree or something like that it sort of funnels or channels into something, something of that nature

Susan Raven: into nature into nature. Yeah. And we asked why, why. And this is the most moving and profound thing is that keeps coming up from these trees is we are doing it for you, so that you don’t get sick.

Rick Archer: Interesting. So it’s like they’re taking on our karma or something. They’re absorbing the stuff. Yeah. Like sacrificing themselves for our sake. Yeah, the so

Susan Raven: to the sacrifice. Yeah. And then this comes up again and again. And but I mean, is reciprocal

Rick Archer: and interrelated, obviously. So as the trees die, then our, the possibility of our existence is further jeopardized?

Susan Raven: Yeah. So one of the key things is, you know, making a meeting or summoning the Guardian at the gate of lies, Guardian at the gate of lies, please be with me always. So I can recognize a lie that I won’t speak a lie either.

Rick Archer: I don’t want to take us off being here. But there’s speaking of lies, it seems like there’s an epidemic of, well, there’s a whole term fake news. And then there’s all these conspiracy theories, and all this stuff being propagated on Facebook and YouTube and so on. I mean, there’s this shocking number of people who think the earth is flat, and you can, you can start looking at videos about that, reading websites about that, and spend days and weeks and months, you know, on that particular topic, getting more and more brainwashed, if that’s your proclivity. And you know, the same thing with the moon landing being faked and all kinds of other things and some much more harmful than then these conspiracies. But there’s something in in human mentality, which seems to be more prevalent these days, from my perspective, that makes people susceptible to misinformation, and it’s really dividing societies. Everything’s becoming much more polarized, I think, as this kind of propagates.

Susan Raven: Yes, definitely. I’m going to just get a quote here from Rudolf Steiner, which sure about lies, which I find and this really moved me very much he’s talking about are really our ancient ancestors, I would say, probably pre diluvian. But he says, in those ancient times, Ally had infinitely greater power than it has nowadays. If at the present time, everyone who tells a lie or to suffocate, as the result, I think the fear of suffocation will be too great to allow people to risk telling lies. For the thought, expressed in the word, contained a power to give form to the air in the larynx, and then suffocate the human.

Rick Archer: You know, there’s an interesting thing and many of the Vedic stories were well, firstly, there’s a Vedic saying or phrase, which is called written Bara. Pragnya, which means that level of intellect which knows only truth, and there are all these stories about sages who function from that level, who are so true to so true in themselves and so true to their word that whatever they say must come true. And some sometimes they’re stories where a sage will speak something in anger or something, and, oops, you know, yeah, it has to come through because he said it. And that’s how the whole Srimad Bhagavatam came about. Some guy said, you’re gonna get bitten by a snake in a week and he couldn’t take it back. It was because he could only speak truth and if he said it, it became true.

Susan Raven: Truth is subs, I mean, speaking words, words are substance. We create substance on the supersensible realms with every word we speak in every thought we think. And everybody can can help us back from the precipice by patrolling our thinking and our speaking and our ability to forgive. And, you know, everybody can do that.

Rick Archer: Now, Susan, I want to make sure that we don’t burn up all of our time going off on this stuff is all very interesting and I don’t really consider it tangential but you did want to talk about chapter five and we are not I think we’ve touched upon it yet.

Susan Raven: Okay, so I’m going to go through the four elements and the elementals of the four elements. And because this actually gives the substance and structure of the ether and the astral that I’ve, that I’ve been talking about, so I’m going to start off with the element, the mineral element and mineral falls, the farthest and the hardest to serve life. And I’m going to use the word gnomes. Now, it falls

Rick Archer: the farthest and the hardest, you mean it becomes much it becomes more dense and concrete. And perhaps in trapped in that concreteness than any of the other forms? Yes, okay.

Susan Raven: Yes. Okay. So I’m going to use the word gnomes. And I will ask everybody, I will implore everybody

Rick Archer: not to think of the habit

Susan Raven: to reboot that word. It is simply a word to indicate the elementals and nature spirits of solid form. So what are they made of women of flesh and blood, what’s their substance out in these spiritual realms? This substance is intellect and intelligence. They are the intelligence of form. That’s why we see in sort of colloquial art, these beams of great big heads, you know, a truth comes through in, in art. So, they are also a component part of gravity, it’s their intelligence, that holds gravity that is part of gravity. And that is holding and setting limits to matter in a particular way. So that’s their substance, they also hold the memory of place. So when you begin to have a relationship with these beings, you can often be taken into the history of a place you can feel its history in the in the cycles of time. They’re made of what I would call active cleverness. Active cleverness, that’s why they are so useful for the adversary forces. So we have ruling will, which is coming down from the hierarchies the highest idea, the highest type imagination, and then we have human well, and elementals don’t have an inherent morality, they are taken hold of by that which is stronger and more influential than they are. So like, when you

Rick Archer: said ceiling forces, you might mean like a despotic government or something.

Susan Raven: No, no, I’m talking about the ruling will have the hierarchies

Rick Archer: Okay, higher, higher will have the higher beings either will have

Susan Raven: the higher doses. Yes. So that were called that the pure ruling. Well, the law okay, if you like the laws of nature that, yes, but they can be taken hold of, by obviously, by the adversary forces as well.

Rick Archer: Adversary forces So are you saying that there’s some kind of subtle battle going on between the gods and the demons as is sometimes depicted in mythology?

Susan Raven: Yes, definitely. And this battle is going on in the etheric roaches, the is the subtle pulses just beyond the physical. This is where their real tussle is.

Rick Archer: I laugh because my former teacher was once asked why these gods and the demons are always depicted as battling one another. And he said, Well, if they didn’t, the creation would cease to exist.

Susan Raven: Yes, because I would say, where did the elementals Lyrids between the the, the joy of giving and the sorrow of form? You know, they’re there. They are enchanted. They’ve dropped to this, you know, this, this form this hardest form. They have to do time in form. Yeah,

Rick Archer: they’re in solitary.

Susan Raven: And, but we can enliven them and we can allow them to recycle more with our appreciation and our gratitude and our love, we liberate them, we liberate them in danger. And so I’ll then just move briefly on to that. So that’s it that the gnomes the elementals solid form, they are pure intelligence that’s their substance with the undines. In the water beings, their substance is dreaming, a dream, the substance of dreaming and the substance of emotion,

Rick Archer: dreaming many regular human dreaming, or

Susan Raven: what do you think what a dream is, for instance, they would hover over the seed and dream, the plant.

Rick Archer: I see. So they sort of conceptualize things into existence, in a way dream things into a dream.

Susan Raven: conceptualize too hard, they’re much more mobile and conductive than that dreaming is, is more mobile. So there’s substances dreaming. And in many of the shamanic practice practices, it’s entering the dream of the plant. And this is, this is what we’re doing, we’re entering the dream, the, the kingdom of the elementals of water, the undines. So that’s their substance. And again, they’re highly mobile, highly conductive. And it’s also emotion. So when we have these great clouds of emotion, that are emanating out of our body, this is very much akin to the substance of the undines. And then the Celts, or air spirits, they are the light bearers. They bear the light to the leaves and the fruit. And then it’s very much the shaping and forming of the plant and the fruit. And like the information and the wisdom on the light.

Rick Archer: I would just like to interject here that I suspect that you would say that all of this, this whole way of explaining things is completely compatible with scientific understanding of things such as photosynthesis, and, you know, Newton’s theories of relativity and any other laws of nature that science has discovered. It’s just a different, completely different language or a completely different way of explaining it, which actually takes into account certain things that science hasn’t even considered the existing.

Susan Raven: Exactly, I mean, recite always said that the, the laboratory table needs to be treated as an altar.

Rick Archer: I mean, the Periodic Table of Elements. Yes, laboratory table that allows data scientists work on I see. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah,

Susan Raven: each element is being Yes. See, what what, what we need to do is just take this step further, as I said, to go from talking about stuff to talking to start by knowing that each behind every element, there is a being and it is communicable.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So gold, argon, oxygen, nitrogen, all these different elements, they have a certain sort of intrinsic intelligence that is, that is specific to them. And then we can think of as a being,

Susan Raven: yep. And we can communicate, we just need to learn how to do it. And to integrate that with the weights and the measures and the categories of science.

Rick Archer: Call me Gobo it makes sense to me.

Susan Raven: And the thing is that I mean, more and more teach scientists I mean, Bruce lips Turner and Gregg Braden they’re all followed, you know, deep spiritual paths, they know this, and they’re bringing it through. And my teachers, my both of my teachers are highly skilled. Sears, Dennis Cho, clip jet, Dennis Clow check of the Rudolf Steiner College in Sacramento. I mean, he’s an incredible seer, and our true master, and also a great scientist as well. They’ve done the exercises, they’ve opened their their capacities to see into these realms and their brilliant scientists.

Rick Archer: You won’t want to encourage them to go to the science and non duality conference and speak there or you yourself. It’s you’re probably aware that conferences in not far from Sacramento every October, and a whole bunch of scientists and spiritual people get together and kind of like intercommunicate.

Susan Raven: This is the way out of the impasse is to speak to nature and learn how to do it. This is the whole key, but when, but it’s getting to know the components so we have this come up components, which is intelligence, dreaming emotion become to the selfs. And that is like, their substance is wishing and willing. So these have velocity a wish has a velocity, a will has velocity, I mean, you have just stand up on the rocks and get the west wind coming off the RSC and you can really feel what you know the will of the cells is you can feel this, this component. And then you come to the salamanders or fire spirits. And their substance is generative warmth, not dead warmth, this generative warmth that minimizes the cosmos into a seed. It’s taking that high ideal and on the heat in the fire and into the seed. So, generative warmth wishing and willing emotion dreaming, and acute cleverness, intelligence, these are all substance. And this is what these beings this is their substance. And this is what they’re made of.

Rick Archer: When you yourself, listen to science presentations or read science books and things, you know, when you hear, let’s say, you might read a book, let’s say about Einstein and all the things he discovered and all that, do you find yourself kind of correlating or translating that knowledge? Or maybe a better word would be supplementing that supplementing perfect? Yeah, that knowledge with what what you you know, I’m sure you wouldn’t find it conflicting or contradicting? It’s just like, Okay, if you bring in this dimension as well, it becomes a much richer, understand.

Susan Raven: Yeah, it’s literally it’s completing the circle of life. Yeah, it is. It is going from the physical, out into the spirit, spiritual and back again, and being inclusive with it.

Rick Archer: And it’s really so important, because as we’ve said, you know, our main problem here in the world, is that we have, you know, we’re like, sort of guns in the hands of children or something. We’ve acquired all these powerful technologies, but without the deeper spiritual dimension, or which could render our technological know how benign and we could still benefit from it. But without, you know, all the creating so much harm and damage.

Susan Raven: Yes, I mean, I look at the the 5g receivers, and I just think, well, it could be pulsing in love.

Rick Archer: Hmm, what do you make of that? Let’s take 5g as an example. It’s a big controversy right now. Some people feel it’s more threatening than climate change about that. But here in my town, there’s a lot of fuss about, you know, how to keep it out. And what would happen if it got implemented?

Susan Raven: Well, the elementals are being you know, they’re being forced to do time, in a form that is inimical to life.

Rick Archer: So in other words, 5g uses certain 5g or any technology uses certain laws of nature or elementals, in order to function, but it’s like they’ve been enslaved to do something harmful. Exactly. They don’t like it. Yeah, but But somehow, rather, we can bend them to our will, if we are.

Susan Raven: That’s what I mean, it feels like that it’s in need to detach them from the intention. That’s how this is what I’m, this is what I sort of wish for, and are asking for more and more information from the nature spirit. How do we detach the elementals that are enchanted into forms that are inimical to life? How do we detach them from the intentions that are impure? Yeah, well, but I get an answer, I’ll let you

Rick Archer: please do. But it seems to me that certain technologies are always going to be harmful. They’re not they’re never going to be benign and elemental who know whatever the involvement of the elementals they are going to be inimical to life to use the phrase you just use. So what happens to do somehow the elementals withdraw their support and such technologies fail or become obsolete? Or what’s the resolution of this stuff?

Susan Raven: We have to rise in consciousness enough that the intention can no longer survive. Because we live in, obviously, we live in a world of duality, and everything inimical it’s made its opposite as to be made as well. But these solutions rely on us rising in consciousness to be able to access the solutions.

Rick Archer: Right? Alright, so let’s take another example. So genetic engineering, companies like Monsanto, and so on what they’ve been doing with it. So what you’re saying is we need to rise to a level of wisdom, where we think well, that’s not a good idea actually creating seeds that that Terminator seeds that can’t regenerate, so that you have to keep buying them from this company. Why would we want to do that? So let’s get into organic agriculture, permaculture, or whatever. So you’re just saying, let’s, if we wise up, then we just will drop these these harmful technologies and use more positive alternatives?

Susan Raven: Yes, because we will access solutions and ideas, the lighter and more consciousness conscious we become. Yeah, and again, and also it’s also asking the elementals themselves, this is happening, what is the solution? And it’s being open, just asking this question of nature, what as a human being can I do? Now I’ve just given an example of one of the strongest messages I had from let’s see the gnomes the Earth. elementals are the earth nature spirits. Most of the time, when I actually see these beings, I don’t see them all the time. And I don’t want to see them all the time. It’s the array of responsibilities that come to you when you are in these heightened states. And you experience these beings is extraordinary. So most of the time, it has been when I’ve been in a state of joy, gratitude, beauty. There’s only one time that I actually was catapulted into their own when it was negative. And that’s when I went on a walk. And I was berating myself for doing something wrong. And I was catapulted into their world and I was shown this expression. We create this stench, we create the most Almighty stench in these subtle realms, and a clamor when we berate ourselves and are constantly in argument with ourselves, that is one of the most potent negative things that we can send out onto the ether. And there’s that one, I think you’ve interviewed him that wonderful speaker, Matt Kahn, yes, he’s doing incredible work with teaching people how to clear that out of the system. I remember the first the first interview I ever saw with him, he said, If the whole of humanity put their hand on their heart and said, I love you, and truly meant it, the disease and the ocean would be healed within seconds. So it’s a beautiful idea, but I can see the super sense of science of that. Because again, and again, the negative Elementals. And the diseases are saying, we fill the space you leave behind. So we have to create a space, a super sensible effect, etheric, spiritual space, that has more and more joyful elementals in it. And then these diseases will recede. And our, our consciousness will flower and we will get more and more gifts of enhanced comprehension on what to do to pull ourselves back from this precipice.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, I think that all the solutions obviously exist, and there are solutions for every problem that the world faces. And it’s just a matter of, as you say, you know, getting attuned to the deeper wisdom so that they can come forth. We might also say it’s a matter of deserving. You know, there’s that saying deserve that desire. Yeah. And, you know, if we can increase our deserving ability that our receiving ability will be enhanced.

Susan Raven: And that comes again, the self, you know, we do deserve, and by endless aspirating, we deserve to treat ourselves better as well. Yeah. To add to this deserving

Rick Archer: question came in from the vet in Grimsby, Ontario, Canada, she asks, in reference to the ideas of Terence McKenna, who asserted that plants offer hallucinatory experiences and teachings. This is related to the ideas of plant medicine of the indigenous people. Do you see some plants planted entities as being more conducive to being our teachers and contacts? Or are all plants equal in this capacity? I guess you saying, you know, is, could is corn potentially as potent to teacher as ayahuasca and the entity that associated with each plant?

Susan Raven: Depending on the it depends on the question, I think they are all equal. I’ll give you an example. For instance, I had a question with an old, you tree. And I asked a very, very simple question, took myself down into this pit, this yielding my place in this sheath of soul quiet, unsaid to this tree, who am I? Who am I? Now the yew tree shot gave me this gift of comprehension of just how ancient a human being can be. You can pick up a tiny stone of or a tiny piece of silica, and that silica can take you up into the cosmos and show how it used to be aeriform. And how its communist aeriform and gifted itself to the earth, it’s a major part of the Earth’s silica. So I think all Earth’s phenomena, all of nature, can give us powerful insights, depending on what we need to know, regarding the, the, let’s say, for instance, the psilocybin or the Ayahuasca, I think, especially the psilocybin is now proving to help a lot of people with schizophrenia,

Rick Archer: and depression and alcoholism. And also Yeah, yeah,

Susan Raven: I mean, it’s, it’s a great gift this plant, as is cannabis, the cannabis plant as well. I’ve found that, in the past, I have taken the psilocybin, as you know, as a young teenager. And I’ve experienced what it’s like to see the elementals when you take a substance like that, I’ve also experienced it going through this route as well. With this route, I find it’s much more precious, because I’m in my own sovereignty. And I’m developing these capacities, when you take the psilocybin it’s in charge, the being is completely in charge. And you really need to be prepared, very well prepared to take something that is going to be in charge of you’re not saying it’s wrong, or it’s right or anything. But at the moment, I’ve I feel working with the nature spirits, through this more sort of laborious or what the harder route is giving me personally a greater reward. Well, the

Rick Archer: word prepared I think, is key. You know, anybody can swallow a substance, regardless of how full of impurities they may be, how, you know, how, how twisted or stressed or whatever, you know, their their nervous system is. But if we go the route that you’re describing, of working out these impurities and untangling these twists, and you know, purifying the system and clarifying our faculties, then these these perceptions and abilities will dawn naturally when they’re ready to do so when it’s appropriate.

Susan Raven: And you are definitely in your own I am and your own sovereignty,

Rick Archer: building your foundation. Yes,

Susan Raven: absolutely. Yeah. But they’re, they’re great teacher proud plants, you know, they’ve, they’ve changed many people’s lives, the sillon psilocybin and for the good, but I do really, in answer to this question. I think every plant has have a wealth of wisdom to give us

Rick Archer: a tick down six pages of notes to ask you haven’t referred to them too much. But is go ahead

Susan Raven: with the thought and the Fire Spirits, you wanted to know, there’s

Rick Archer: all kinds of things, I just want to make sure that you feel that, you know, by the time we wrap this up, you have had a chance to say all the things you want to say. And obviously, we could go on for four hours or six hours and not run out of things to talk about. But I just want to make sure that we hit the most important points.

Susan Raven: I’d like to just go through methods of connecting with them. And drawing a plant is, is a really good way of connecting, sitting down with a piece of paper and a pen, or a pencil and sitting down and drawing a tree. This beautiful sort of merging can happen between the two of you. It’s like you’re stroking its aura, when you are, when you’re drawing it, this is a great way. Always ask permission, may I communicate, and good manners. And also chivalry, this word chivalry. And it’s, you know, pointing this whole business of pointing and naming and labeling. I’ve seen I felt some of these trees sort of really tense up when they’re pointed at. So we have to be careful of our manners around them.

Rick Archer: They mean if you’re walking through the woods, you say, oh, that’s an oak tree. Oh, that’s a maple tree here. And you’re pointing and saying that it insults them in some way.

Susan Raven: It can do it can do if that’s all you’re going to do. Because you’re like, ticking.

Rick Archer: superficial. It’s like, yeah, you’re not recognizing the, the profundity of what it actually is. You’re just calling it a name.

Susan Raven: Yes. Okay. So here’s some questions. Also, this, this business of yielding, is going into meditation, let’s say with a plant or a flower, or a beautiful rock or a lake, yielding, and Steiner has this beautiful phrase yielding into beauty brings forth pious devotion to infinity. So you yield yourself into this beautiful plant. And

Rick Archer: this pilot he comes to mind. Yes,

Susan Raven: great humility. And observation then becomes this chivalrous participation in its life as well.

Rick Archer: Someone named Jones sent in a few questions. Maybe I’ll just ask all three, and you can answer them all in one response. She asks, Do elemental beings look like vibrating light to you? Or do they have clear outlines? Can you see emotions and thought forms floating around? What sounds from the Spiritual World

Susan Raven: Can you hear? A sand spending time at a waterfall. Game down into this no time, the meditation when everything’s slow, right down and the water almost stops. One is surrounded by tones. Yes, I definitely feel those. And it’s through those times that I get really good inspiration for my songs.

Rick Archer: Oh, speaking of your songs, we’re going to maybe at the end of the interview, what we do and we’ll we’ll conclude and then we’ll add one of your songs in for people to listen to before the final end of the recording. But anyway, good. Okay, good. And then her other questions about emotions or VR and yeah,

Susan Raven: it’s very translucent, shimmering light that’s winking in and out of physical sight. And when they do appear, again, one just is just in this state of such humility and gratitude that these exquisite dear and beautiful beings have deigned to show themselves to you. It’s very moving, incredibly moving. And when they show themselves in these shimmering lights, you get a huge sense of the enormous amount of work that they do for our sake. So yes, I see them in different colors, mainly in the violet hues.

Rick Archer: I was, I have a friend who sees subtle beings quite routinely. And you know if he’s in a group of people sees them, or around each person sort of doing whatever they do. And when I first discovered this, I was in an elevator with him at the San Francisco airport. And I said, I told you so many times, I’m telling you it again. I said, Hey, I said, are there any in this elevator? And he can just smile there? We got the elevator. And he said, they just said to me, don’t point us out to people. If they’re meant to see us, they’ll see us. Yeah,

Susan Raven: yeah. Yeah. I think what I’ll do to sort of sum up is to, say, a beautiful prayer that came to me.

Rick Archer: And also, maybe even before you do the prayer, there’s a practical question here, which is that you give workshops of some sort, and someone named Maria wants to know how long it takes the average workshop participant to see with her spiritual faculties. So I guess, you know, we want to be make people aware of what they can do to interact with you. And if they’re workshops in this net,

Susan Raven: yes, I give a set of workshops and levels or stages 123. They’re called communicating and CO creating with the elemental Kingdom. It depends on you on your inner life. What have you done with your own inner life? How much of your past Have you processed? How much forgiving have you done? It’s the same, same formula. But I would say, the nature spirits are doing everything they can to come and meet us at the moment. They do everything they can to meet us. And when a group of people come together with the intent to communicate the whole synergy of the group, most people who come to the workshops, Iran, have an experience with the nature spirits, or they find something in them has changed. And they are able to see their dilemmas or their difficulties in a very different way, from their interactions with the nature spirits.

Rick Archer: They do the matter there in person, the people have to come to Wales, or do you do that? Are they online webinars are what

Susan Raven: I know, I would be very reluctant to work in this. In this particular part of the spiritual path online, you have to come and we need to be on the earth. I’ve do them in around in Britain, yes, I haven’t yet come to America to bring them. And I also teach ritual. Now, of course, there are many of the indigenous people they’ve brought through, over and over time, these old and ancient rituals. And these rituals, again, I think have contributed to the fact that we haven’t gone over the precipice, in they’ve held this wisdom for the good of us or the benefit of us all. And these rituals work. However, with the new elementals coming in, there is a place for new ritual, new rituals to be formed, that are these gifts of enhanced comprehension. And it includes you remit you with me which is expressing through movement. This is a language the elementals can read is human being in ritual and movement. So I teach these forms that have come out of the biodynamic Research Unit Institute, and these rituals create fountains of well being where the elementals can come and refresh themselves. These are new rituals. Some people are sort of against new rituals, but we’re in New Times, there’s new elementals, we need new ones as well as the old and that’s not saying either is better. It’s We need as many as possible. And I want to recommend to people. So many of us think more what can we do? I mean, I’m going to recommend this book. It’s called universe of the human body with Gaia touch body exercises, and it’s by Marco projection IK. Now I have very some very simple exercises that everybody can do in my book,

Rick Archer: send me a link to that and I’ll put up a graphic of it.

Susan Raven: He has he is an a very advanced, very skilled seer. And he’s been working with Gaia and the elements was for many, many years. And he’s been asking them what can we do and it is full of exercises and rituals you can do as a group or as a human being. And they are, they really work on can really feel the effect they have on nature when you do them. So I highly recommend those. What is there any other part of the question? I haven’t answered

Rick Archer: what you’re going to know. That’s it, but then you were going to do a prayer of some sort. He said, and okay, I interrupted you.

Susan Raven: Okay. So this prayer came to me a while ago. And if anybody would like a copy of this prayer, come to my website, and I can send it to you. It is a prayer and petition to the nature spirits and Elementals. And we have to just before I start, we have to remember that we are nature spirits, too. We are spirits in nature. And we do need to declare this out in nature, so that they know we are kin. I remember, I am a spirit of nature to I respectfully seek admittance to your domain, that I may with grace and reverence. CO create with the beings of your world. In the name of love, I allow you to instruct me and I prepare a place of warm welcome in my heart and mind, your world wisdom to enter my soul. May the responsibility it brings, ripened my understanding, deepen my feeling, and guide my willing, that I may walk as a true human being, to the Kingdoms of Nature, in which we all share the life gift just like

Rick Archer: Thank you. Okay, well, this has been wonderful. I’ve really enjoyed the whole week of reading your book and now talking to you for a couple of hours. It’s been very enriching for me. We want to end with your song glittering cities. Is there anything you want to say to introduce the song?

Susan Raven: Okay, well, this song glittering cities, this came to me after a period of real calamity and challenge as often. A true beautiful inspiration does. It’s called glittering cities. I had a profound dream where I was taken to these beautiful and exquisite, authentic cities. And in the morning, I woke up and I said, Where have I been? I was reading a book by Rudolf Steiner called the reappearance of Christ in the etheric flipped open the page. And there was this page was all about Shambala. So I was touching the fringes of Shambala,

Rick Archer: and she just explained what Shambala is for those who need that.

Susan Raven: It’s one can describe it as an ancient fairy land, an ancient land which has the pure Springs and wells, of ancient wisdom.

Rick Archer: And this is something that actually exists in some etheric or subtle level.

Susan Raven: Yes, yes to place that you can reach. And I was taken there. And these words just came flowed out afterwards. And I’m also recording a new album. And these are songs from the land and the nature spirits. And if anybody like to see or hear a preview of the songs, the song, it’s to go Susan, forward, slash preview, I think I sent you want, it’s good.

Rick Archer: I’ll be sending the links to this thing. I’m putting the links to these things on on your page. You know, it’s interesting to consider, I don’t mean to take us off track here. But it would seem to me, maybe you can comment on this, that if they’re all these beings on subtle levels, they must have communities of some sort, you know, and even stable dwellings of some sort that they dwell in, maybe, I mean, maybe I’m anthropomorphizing them too much. But then I think they have seen get together for meetings or whatever, collaborator.

Susan Raven: I think it’s schools about an element.

Rick Archer: Wave role create, how do they come into existence?

Susan Raven: The Higher hierarchy is there able to create life itself? And this life is then distributed into legions of elemental kingdoms and nature spirits.

Rick Archer: Do you think that’s how life originated on the planet? I mean, let them to hear well, there was this sort of see. And then lightning struck and it created so somehow life sprang into being but you think really it was the hierarchies or the higher intelligences that decided to introduce life at the appropriate time when the planet was habitable enough? Mm hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No, I bet you they’re also given the vastness of the universe and I budget according to the ancient traditions, there actually are planets which are like spiritual planets, where the whole thing is a celestial realm, but it’s an entire planet inhabited by celestial beings, subtle beings, higher, higher forms of much more highly evolved life than we have here on this planet.

Susan Raven: Yes, Steiner speaks of the Venus beings and the Mars beings and the mercury beings who suffer beings and their relationship.

Rick Archer: The Vedic Tradition says that the Petris or forefathers live on the moon, and when I first heard that effect when the moon has, but we’re, again, we’re talking about the subtle realms, I’m talking about

Susan Raven: the subtle realm. Yeah, we’re so conditioned with this small compact seam of reality. And it is so vast, the minute you can break open this calcified, demand to squash everything down into concepts and spreadsheets. Once you can just soften that up, and OS, they’re all waiting for an awakened, aware and willing humanity to work with them. They have the answers. And when we work in collaboration, we can pull through this.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I was in a brief conversation the other day with someone who was speculating as to whether life exists elsewhere in the universe, and, and all that stuff. And I said, Life is everything is life. I mean, if you really see into the essence of things, you you realize that the very center of the Sun which we consider to be completely inhospitable to life is full of life depends on it, you just have to understand what we mean by life,

Susan Raven: full of exalted beings that are fighting their way through Chem trails. I mean, it’s, it’s just, it’s the conceit of it to think that a chem trail can scramble the wisdom of the sun. It’s trying.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I don’t want to get into the whole Chem trails thing a little bit, then no, no, but, but they’re actually people who are proposing that we geoengineer the climate by putting sulfur dioxide crystals into the atmosphere and iron crystals into the ocean to try to mitigate the the temperature increase that we’ve caused on the planet and the lack of the ability, ability of the ocean to absorb and absorb carbon dioxide. And these things would be such a gamble. I mean, they would really, you know, magnify the problem many fold if we, and again, it’s sort of this sort of arrogance of human. In Some so called intelligence over resorting to nature’s intelligence is this tendency to try to dominate nature rather than attune to it then? Yes, that’s so called solutions.

Susan Raven: Nature. Once we show our humility begin connecting with her, she can mend herself faster than we believe it. Yeah. If we show willing when the 5g is turned off, when they stop spraying the skies, Gaia and all her ecosystems of nature spirits and elementals will go into overdrive. As long as we join with them.

Rick Archer: Nature bats last I forget who said that? Yeah. Okay, great. So thank you, Susan. It’s been really a pleasure. And now we will let everyone hear that song. So we’ll just segue to that song.


The no one swears see the ruins are for those who have missed

Rick Archer: Barr in the region will guide us where we’re Going. base metal to be forgotten now. Back Home