Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week or today is Ken nella, Michelle Myers from North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. So welcome, Michelle.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Thank you, Rick. It’s good to be here with you this morning.
Rick Archer: Yeah. So Michelle and I were talking a little bit. Go kid, Ella, you go by canal? Really? Not? Either one works. Okay. You don’t care? So no. Okay. We’re talking before the interview about what we’re going to talk about. And we thought we’d give you a whole sort of overview of both, you know, canellos, personal life story, particularly as it pertains to spiritual awakening, and then, you know, an expression of what it is she likes to express in terms of knowledge, which some teachers exclusively like to do one or the other. But I think having listened to Michelle quite a bit, in preparation for this interview, I find that she’s comfortable with a wide range of expressions, and so we’ll run the whole gamut. So where would you like to start?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Oh, I don’t know. How about a question. Okay. You know, from the vastness pick something, it’s helpful.
Rick Archer: So, I would say, I mean, most of us, You’re younger than I am, I grew up in the 60s and kind of got onto kind of spirituality in the late 60s, and, you know, through various chemical assists. And then after about a year of that got sick of it and learn to meditate and turn to more natural sources of spirituality. And I even though you’re slightly different generation, I have a feeling that your background is somewhat similar, you know, have a fair amount of experimentation and bumbling and, and eventually coming into a much greater sort of clarity of purpose.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yes, and no, I mean, the the experimentation, as far as you know, with marijuana or hash. I hadn’t actually explored anything more than that. But it kind of came to a standstill after that experience when I was 15. So yeah, actually, I didn’t actually go into any more of that, because I was terrified. The same thing happening.
Rick Archer: Yeah, tell us about that. That was quite an experience.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Oh, apparently, joint that myself and my girlfriend smoke was laced with MDA or or LSD. I mean, that’s what a doctor guessed. Because we were having where I was having flashbacks while I was on a trip to Disneyland with my mom and dad. So, you know, in one way, it was good that it it started out of necessity, I had to tell my mom and dad, because I was scared. And I didn’t know what was happening. Why I was having this incredible experience that I was attempting so strongly to stop that, of course, it was horribly uncomfortable and not fun whatsoever. And it was this doctor that happened to be on the bus tour to Disneyland that my parents approached who said, you know, there’s nothing you can do with a flashback. You need to just open open to this because this might be the way that your life is
Rick Archer: and what was the experience? Exactly.
Canela Michelle Meyers: If my eyes were closed, I could see more than what I was seeing with my eyes open I could see people talking and voices all sorts of information that I couldn’t shut off
Rick Archer: hallucinatory or things that were actually happening around you. Oh, no
Canela Michelle Meyers: things that were hindsight it I believe it was stuff that I was having that was actually happening, but not present in that room. Right. I was picking up on psychic information. This that part of me just like, totally whacked open. Yeah. And so when my I did my have my eyes open, my parents came toward me they’d be all stretched out sideways and speaking in slow motion. You know, I like this and well, it was of course I was trying to stop it with every ounce of beer. my 15 year old self, until his doctor spoke with me and said, this might be it, you need to open to it, and what a blessing, you know, because that’s exactly what I did I just just relaxed by date by there, I allowed myself to relax open. And so it didn’t actually stop. It’s more like I got used to living with that part of myself open but it because of the fear wasn’t there in the contraction and the resistance to it, it softened. And the only time that it would kind of break open to a place where it was uncomfortable with sometimes in crowds in a mall or something like that. And then I would just breathe and open to it. And be alright,
Rick Archer: so Did it go on for weeks and months and years are an integer eventually just stop
Canela Michelle Meyers: it? Well, once I softened overnight, it wasn’t really it was so gradual. I don’t know that it really stopped. I just became integrated, integrated in normal. So, um,
Rick Archer: do you still have anything like that to this day? Well, terms of picking up stuff that’s from afar and so on?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Oh, absolutely. That, but it’s now it’s a it’s a support like, right, I was in Costa Rica. And I woke up one morning and I you know, I didn’t know, I was just on this beach where some women had been kidnapped. And I was just in that, you know, mourning time of not quite awake and using and just kind of wondering well, what what it must be like for them to be kidnapped these women, what would they be experiencing. And just out of the blue, I saw a word across whatever it was how it was I was seeing it was said BLM. And I could see these women. And they were in a hut with a dirt floor and chickens were walking around and stuff. And I didn’t really think anything of it until we packed up the van and we’re headed back down the road. And the next town that we came through was BLM. And I didn’t even know and so the whole thing, then I realized, whoa, this was real I was what I was seeing was real. So I ended up actually contacting some a notary that said English spoken. And just thought, Okay, I’ll just give a statement. And this person can send it to the family of these women that had been kidnapped. You know, who am I some Canadian woman who has this vision and who knows what it means. But if I was their parents, I would still want to know of anything. Yeah, if because they, you know, had been missing for quite a while. And so the notary actually contact contacted the police. While we were there didn’t really tell us kind of kept us kept keeping us there through the saying, Oh, hold on, hold on, you know, like telling us some sort of story. But pretty soon some detectives came from San Jose, and I started actually working as a psychic I guess, for them. And then they found some housing in Bella in that area that they had some suspicious suspicions about. And I did hear later that they had found them. Oh,
Rick Archer: but don’t? Did you just work on that particular case? Or did you start working on other cases as a psychic?
Canela Michelle Meyers: No, just that particular case. And then it kind of came up a couple other times with other people. If it came within a Reiki session, or out of the blue when a woman was was missing. But I never pursued it as an offering right to say, you know, this is something that you can find here with this Canella it was just it’s just if it happened, right? That’s where it would go.
Rick Archer: So when you were 15 How long did it take you to sort of kind of realize that, hey, this is kind of cool, actually. And maybe there’s there’s some silver lining to this shift that I’ve undergone.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Oh, I didn’t really look at that was like that. I mean, I definitely stayed away from drugs. Yeah. Was that the good side effect? I think because a lot of friends continued on with exploration, and some of them got to some really tough spots. That I don’t I didn’t you know, because I didn’t end up even belonging to the group anymore because I wasn’t participating. You know?
Rick Archer: Yeah. So it should you did allude to, before the we started the recording. You alluded to it. Alcohol or something? Was it some significance of alcohol in your life? That
Canela Michelle Meyers: was that was much later? Yeah. Okay, that. So you know, alcoholism is something that for, say an unhealthy relationship with alcohol is on both sides of my parents family. It’s it’s part of, you know, this ancestry. But I never really thought of myself as being an alcoholic or, you know, having that term applied to myself. But as I started to meditate, after I started practicing Reiki, and life shifted so much from realizing I didn’t need to fight, I started looking at things more closely. And I started looking at my own relationship. And noticing that whenever with my own relationship with with alcohol, so at the time, what I noticed is that whenever anybody offered me alcohol, I was always yes. And if I had a drink, there was something in me that thought I would have an even better time if I drank more. Right. And it wasn’t working. Because the next morning, I’d feel horrible. Yeah, right. No, not that I drank a lot. It’s just like sharing a bottle of wine with my husband at the time. All I knew is that when I looked directly at it, that alcohol was something more than juice, water, tea, or coffee, right? It was it held something more for me. And I saw that that wasn’t healthy. Yeah. So in my own honesty, with myself, I decided, Okay, I’m going to stop drinking to see what this is. And so what happened was I abstained from drinking. But yet, the urge was still there. So I would sit whenever the urge came up, I would sit with how I felt, and feel the energy inside myself that was kind of longing or believing that there was some sort of magic in alcohol, that was going to be good for me somehow. And I would just sit with those thoughts and feelings, the sensations in the body until they eventually they disappeared. And then came a time when someone offered me some wine. And I knew in that moment, fear actually rose. Because once I found and released myself from the power I had given alcohol, di, I had learned that getting over power, as if alcohol held something more than anything else. So I met that and and basically took the power I gave alcohol back to myself. And then in that moment, when somebody said, Well, would you like a glass of wine and fear rose, I realized, well, I could give alcohol that power again, if I started to fear it. So I said, Okay, well just give me just an inch to see what will happen. And so I breathing, and I was afraid I didn’t want to lose what I had gained, I thought I might lose it again, to alcohol, to this wine, you know, it would all show up again, somehow. And instead, I just had that little bit and it was somewhat tasty. It was okay. But nothing happened. You know, awareness was softened, right? But if there was no drawing up, all the longing didn’t show up again. Hmm.
Rick Archer: I’ve heard that sort of thing advocated for overcoming any kind of addiction, food or smoking or anything else just sort of tuning into, you know, what you’re really feeling inside when you have that craving rather than just blindly succumbing to the temptation. And it seems like mechanics of it are that it can actually root out the root cause of the, of the addiction.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, it’s exactly and this is, this is a sort of support that I offer people to anything that they feel that they’re giving more power to like money. We can work with it, and see where it connects in and bring it up on purpose to you know, and that can be with any kind of addiction that can be an addiction of thoughts of the mind, right, where people focus in on a person in particular who is particularly irritating or any kind of idea of blame that that person for power, that person has power over, over themselves. Then we have something that we can work with, and explore and see where it connects energetically.
Rick Archer: Hmm. So in other words, any sort of irritant or annoyance, or whatever can be used as a tool to explore a blind spot or, you know, an area that hasn’t been explored or uncovered or are freed of obstruction? Is that what you’re saying?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yes, I see them as invitations. Yeah, I their energy that rises. And if it’s uncomfortable, that means we’re trying to get our own attention. So, you know, people, usually in the comfy experiences, they don’t they come and go, Yeah. And it’s the uncomfortable ones that people try to move away from. Hmm.
Rick Archer: Which is kind of a nice, I mean, everybody has this opportunity, obviously, because life is always presenting us with challenges of all kinds. And so there’s no shortage of evolutionary possibilities.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Absolutely. I don’t have any ideas around. People needing to be anything other than just a human being and interested, if they’re, as long as they’re interested to look. And see, I have found that people of all walks of life, whether they’re interested in spiritual search, or just interested in enjoying their life more. That, yeah, it has no prerequisite to explore these fields.
Rick Archer: Yeah, we’re getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but that’s okay. The, so I’ve listened to a number of your songs, and you sort of do that with people, they’ll come up and sit with you, and then you’ll kind of tune them into what, what’s going on now, you know, the often some flight of fancy and you’ll say, Well, how about right now what’s going on? And, you know, kind of give them a taste of, you know, being sort of sensitive to how one reacts to things. And you know, what’s actually going on inside when we feel this that the other thing about someone or something?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, I actually I don’t I support them to find. Right. Right. You’re
Rick Archer: not finding it for them? Obviously. Yeah,
Canela Michelle Meyers: I don’t tune in. Really? I am. I’m with them. Yeah. And so it’s sort of like a joining with them. There’s a width, I call it witness. You know, like, right now, you and I have this connection. It’s with us right here right now. Right? So all I do is open to that connection, and see what rises, inclusive of what they’re seeing, because I can’t see what they’re perceiving. Right, I can only feel the energy.
Rick Archer: Well, that’s significant. I mean, the average person might not feel the energy, you know, but what you’re implying is that there has been some sort of opening in you that has enabled that enables you to be more sensitive to the energy that someone else is emitting or going through, right. Well, it’s in no separation. No separation. Yeah. So this witness is no separation so that his awareness is aware of what actually is so.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And this system is particularly sensitive to energy and the felt sense of that. So it’s been, I don’t know, explored extensively, and therefore expanded on like, anything that you play with quite a bit, you get better and better and talk about my son’s the video games. Yeah, right. It’s so yeah, it’s, it’s something that everybody is aware of, in their own way, I might have a particular way of being with your hearing the energies and your very empathic system, my physicality, I can actually feel it in my body. But everybody has their way of hearing what is? Yeah. And that’s what I love to support his people to recognize that they’re actually with as soon as they see it, they can see that it’s been right there with them. It’s, it’s not. It’s just that they’re not looking quite in that direction. Yeah, it seems.
Rick Archer: So let’s say you’re sitting with somebody and they’re feeling very fearful about something. Do you actually feel some like queasiness in your solar plexus or you know, some such thing corresponding to the fear that they’re experiencing?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, it comes in different ways depending on the person. Sometimes it’s like just a real strong stillness in a particular area of the body. Or sometimes the actual I feel the actual emotion in in material see that in satsang that tears can come as I let sadness or grieving As I’m with somebody, if it’s particularly strong, they haven’t allowed that. I’ll actually be with them in the feeling of the grief. And somehow that makes it easier for the person to open to strong emotions, feelings. Hmm.
Rick Archer: That’s interesting. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Arma, the hugging saint, but she’s kind of interesting to watch, because you’ll sit there for, you know, 10 hours at a time or something. And people are coming up, and she’s embracing each one. And it’s like, there’s kind of this infinite flexibility in terms of her adapt, adapt, adaption to each, each individual comes up in all of it tears, one minute laughter the next, you know, oh, this is like, amazing. It’s like Mark Twain said about the weather in Connecticut. If you don’t like it, wait a few minutes. But there’s this infinite flexibility sort of, in responding to each person and going deep into the situation with each person. Yeah, and uplifting them and helping them to clear out whatever it is they’re going through.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, just being with it’s it, we we feel so alone. You know, that’s what the separateness is it has a feeling as if you’re alone, when you know, you’ve nobody’s really alone, right? It’s such an incredible mix of everything that’s happening. But it’s too open to that it’s also scary, people find that scary to really let in that. You know, that they are more of a gap than they are substance. And then there there is no glue holding them together. As a human being it’s just happening that way. You know, there’s a magnetic ness and intelligence to the molecules and atoms. Yeah. But there’s no there’s no glue. Hmm.
Rick Archer: Interesting. Well, there isn’t, there isn’t I mean, isn’t there a sort of a level of our life which is, you know, totally open until the unbounded and invent use the word vast at the beginning of the interview. And then at the same time, there’s a sort of a structured level, a manifest level, which has its integrity. And even though science would tell us that if you look closely enough, it’s mostly empty space. But there’s, there’s a sort of, you know, and individuation that makes life possible. Or not, I’m not rolling, put words in your mouth. But is it just you see it that way? Or otherwise?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, I know that there was a time when I did see it that way. And that fell away with when I connected with Isaac, that time, and I and I said, Shapiro, yes, I just asked him Is it beyond perception. And he said, Yes. And in that moment, the part that was sort of feeding the belief in as if I was something disappeared, it just actually fell away, it seemed to be sort of around around me, this structure, and it just disappeared, it completely left. And so there is actually a, when I look, there’s a direct experience of space and something here in space, right now, right, and same as the computer same as the air between, you know, what appears to be here and the computer screen and the sound, it’s happening to me, it’s, it’s all kinds of particles, in a way, I mean, I can feel that directly.
Rick Archer: Part of particles means what?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Its particles dancing. So it’s quite fluid. At the same time, I can stop and I mean, that’s the incredible miracles I can talk and I can put my hand on my hand in there something that seems to be solid, and guess what I get to feel my hand with this other hand, and that is so amazing, because simultaneously there’s also this direct experiencing that it’s not, it’s not that and so we get this gift of, of experiencing ourselves as a human being in the midst of the dance of like, everything that is
Rick Archer: that’s interesting. Well, you know, I mean, scientists would tell us that you know, what appears to be solid and and discreet and you know, dense is actually anything but that it’s it is particles dancing, not even particles, it’s sort of probabilities percolating up out of out of the you know, the vacuum state and yeah, dropping back. And, and but most of us don’t experience it that way. Most people experience the world is concrete. And what you’re saying is that you actually your day to day life is akin is in tune with what the scientists say that you’re experiencing the sort of virtuality of things. And yet at the same time, the solidity of things that paradoxically, both things are enjoyed in one,
Canela Michelle Meyers: it’s a delight one package, it’s just, you know, the footfalls and lands on something. The whole thing, I mean that the blood is pumping, that there’s air that’s being breathed, that, that something forms these words, even right now. I mean, if I look in that direction, I could be smothered in love. That’s what it feels like, it feels like such a amazing gift, that for no reason is happening. And I get to be a part of it. As this human being, you know, and it seems to magnified with really taking care of her and turning around and embracing this woman that I am. And being tender and caring, and all the all the bits and pieces that were imagined came from someplace else, or from someone else. I’ve bit by bit given to myself, found a way to be creative, when any kind of longing came up? How could I give that to myself in some way? And I did so and slowly but surely, then she I opened up to more and more relaxing into experiencing love itself. Directly, not because of anything but here all the time. And so then other times I can be thinking, well, you know, I’m hungry, and I’ll make some toast. Sure. And then you know, but if I even look at that, if I stop and look at the moment there, it’s and then you get used to it. I mean, it’s just unbelievable that you get accustomed to living like that. And and so it’s nice to speak about it sometimes if there’s something that I would have loved to be able to do is to give people a taste of what I experienced. And the only way the closest I can come is by being with people.
Rick Archer: Yeah, well, that’s always a motivation for me when I’m talking to people like this is, you know, what can we you know, what can be said, that would give others a taste of this, it’s not, we don’t want to just hear people’s stories, you know how it is for them, we want to tune into actually enjoying that same level or same type of experience ourselves if possible and appropriate. And I think there was a lot packed into what you just said that would be helpful for people. I mean, for instance, you were saying that you gradually shifted from a lack of self sufficiency being dependent upon external things and people and whatnot for this, that and the other thing, and then learning that discover that what you were seeking externally was actually available internally, if you I think use the word caring and some some words like that, if you if you sort of treated yourself for the right TLC or are tuned in to what was going on inside with sufficient clarity and subtlety.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Right in just being with, Okay, what does she want? Now, you know, What is she up to, and we’ve all them trained to be field dependent. In other words, everything out here is going to give us what we want, you know, right. And that’s the falsity that that’s where the suffering, you know, comes in that, you know, love resides here with you, you experience where you are, when somebody loves you, that gets opened in the heart area, and you experience love, right where you are, you don’t actually experience it over there and the other person, right, right. So it’s like that. So if there’s some any kind of, you know, it’s beautiful that it rose in me that okay to be in this relationship, you know, some sort of relating, wanting to be in you know, that’s what kept rising and I was, like, totally irritated by that. Because it’s like, you know, all this garbage and so then I would see, okay, so what is it that she’s looking for in your relationship? You know, what is it that she feels is she’s might be missing? And when I asked that question in the moment of when the pod or the longing would occur, Oh, if only I was in it relating right now, then I’d be happy. Right? So in that moment, stopping and seeing okay, what is it that she’s looking for? So I did find it helpful to sort of be beside myself and see her as a third person next to To like, when I say I talked about her, and
Rick Archer: yeah, I was gonna say you refer to yourself in the third person, it’s kind of funny.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Because that’s, you know, as a parent, right? That’s how I am with my sons, I seem tuned in and to the best of my ability, I’m with them when they need me and I stand back, when even though I want to meddle in their affairs, and just realize no, you know, let them follow their way out. My thing is to let them know that I’m here with them, and I’m available. And all I need to do is say the word and I could help you with them to the you know, and I don’t even know if I can, yeah, supportive, all I know, is I’m willing to be supportive, if ever, you know, and so I turned that around on myself. And I decided to become the parent that I am to them. To myself. Hmm. So it’s almost like awareness, and I, or this team, and awareness, watches the whole play event, and, and sees when she’s whatever in her humaneness being human, right. And then tends to her, you know, how can I meet her, you know, but the I, it’s this weird thing, because it’s actually awareness. Yeah. And then inviting that not to, there’s no getting something, there’s only inviting. And then, you know, allowing awareness to pick up when the offering comes, whatever that is. But in some ways, it’s been practical, like, ridiculously practical, I guess I’m quite logical to that occurs here, this logic. So if there was a need, I remember feeling that I wanted to be held, right, that that was part of the pool of being with another is I wanted to be held, and just that feeling that warmth of that. And so there was some of that, that I could give myself and just hugging myself. But what I found is I put pillows and everything on the couch and some blankets, and I cozy myself made a spot where I felt some pressure behind me and in front of me, and I felt so held. And just let myself totally feel that. Now some people would look at that and say, Oh, poor woman is it, you know, pillows and everything, replace it a warm man, you know, or woman, if that’s, you know, where people’s interest goes. And it to the it did it, it worked to a very large degree. And it came in the moment to feel and recognize that as Buddha’s hand holding, as if Buddha’s hand was holding me, and then it’s like the covers, and the pillows became loving and giving and supportive. And so, you know, it came from me in the moment in how to meet that. And I am guessing that absolutely every person on this earth, if you look at it in a moment, you will find a creative way or fool around with it a bit and find a way to meet your own longings. You know, looking in the moment, not as a rule that, oh, I’m going to, you know, at some sort of extended beyond the moment, idea, I’m going to fulfill all my lead needs now, you know, and that’s what my life is. But although that’s a pretty good one. Maybe that would work? I don’t know.
Rick Archer: Well, you know, it’s, it seems that we all have this, we’re all sitting on an ocean of fulfillment, or we are that ocean of fulfillment. And it’s like we’re all millionaires, with with money in a bank account that we forgotten about. And it’s just a matter of getting to the bank account and tapping into it, and then there it is, is getting out of the way. Yeah, exactly.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. Allowing ourselves to do this drop whatever’s in the way of that flow of energy.
Rick Archer: Do you find that when things are really put to the test, or either positively or negatively, let’s say you receive unexpectedly receive a large sum of money or lose a large sum of money, or, you know, someone cuts you off in traffic or all these different things? Do you understand? Do you feel that that is buffered by this sort of sense that everything is, you know, just bubbling particles and, and, you know, not as substantial as it’s ordinarily taken to be? Yeah, well,
Canela Michelle Meyers: you know, it’s it’s sudden things right? I mean, Some stuff that just doesn’t, it’s just neutral. So when we were in Germany, you know, they, they canceled our train back to Paris, which meant that we couldn’t get our flight from Paris to London. And so, you know, it really mucked up a lot of stuff. And it was just sort of like, okay, well, now what? What happens now and seeing how can we meet this and find yourselves to London appropriately to be there for a meeting the next day? And so there’s that it was just, it was just neutral. Other times, like, I like how you say in driving. So what I find is I might come up with an ad, I’ll even swear. So I don’t know about swearing right here on this. Wilson, it will come up will say, Oh, what the heck no. Or I’ll say, Well, what the hell are you up to? You know what, I’ll be saying it to the other driver. And then I’ll quickly I’ll notice that in the moment, and then I’ll say, oh, what they haven’t are you up to? And immediately I’m laughing, huh. And the whole thing gets poof, you know, it’s get let go of or, or it might send them a little bit of Reiki. Sort of. It’s sort of sort of still the touches there. And then I noticed it and i i Let it go. Yeah. Right. And that that happens very quickly. But certainly, you know, like, when my knee went out of joint, as I was running across the road, I was extremely experiencing that I slowly fell towards the ground and landed on top of it. And there I was line with the vision from being sideways on the sidewalk. going, Okay, now what, you know, can I move my leg and, you know, here I am on a sidewalk and dealing with it just being with those details to the best that I could inclusive of the shock to the system. And the surprise, mixed with disappointment that it happened because I was just feeling so alive and enjoying the the body works so well that I could be running across the street. So free and then pop out goes my knee, you know, wham body gets slammed by cement, and so forth. Right? And so working and being with the moments in that until finding myself, you know, home, somebody had to carry me up the stairs. And
Rick Archer: yeah, the reason I ask is that, you know, sometimes it’s easy to be all sort of smooth and go with the flow as long as nothing too serious is happening. But then when something really happens, if you know like your knee going out or something, then it’s interesting to see how it holds up under such circumstances. And yeah, or like you take extreme examples like Christ about to be crucified or something or actually going through that. And it’s, I guess, the reason I consider it relevant at all is that we all seem to be on a sliding scale in terms of how solidly grounded we are in this. And sometimes people kind of feel like they haven’t made any progress or whatever, if if they kind of go to pieces if they if something serious happens. And maybe it’s good to just sort of be easier on oneself and to
Canela Michelle Meyers: well, also as one expands, right, yeah, as as one allows more love, then there’s more love more space, for whatever is ready to be killed next or to be with to be met. Yeah, that’s really because that is really what healing is. It’s just meeting these parts of ourselves and can be with them as they rise. So often people feel the bliss of the opening and the oneness and the notes, you know, no separation and the freedom of all that. And then they mistake that because something rises within that they think they’ve lost it. Right, right. Because oh, now I’m angry. Yeah. Or, or, you know, anger happening or whatever that is, and, and that’s just, it’s just, I can’t speak in every instance. But it seems to be a mistake that happens quite often. That people feel they they’ve lost it because the bliss doesn’t feel blissful, particularly.
Rick Archer: Right. Yeah, that helps clarify, I think that’s clearer than the way I was trying to say it. And, and also, I mean, it’s worth pointing out and many teachers have that, you know, that which we’re ultimately talking about here is not something which can come and go or which does come and go, bliss can come Go, you know, health health can come and go and having a functioning knee can come and go, you know, all that stuff. But there’s something underlying all that, that doesn’t come and go.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And underlying its whole,
Rick Archer: whole containing, we should say,
Canela Michelle Meyers: the painting with no container. Right, right, because it has no edges and is just the main experience of itself, I don’t know, it’s the solid part, that’s not solid.
Rick Archer: And that can be noticed. I mean, yeah,
Canela Michelle Meyers: it’s, it’s pervading, it’s encompassing, it’s, it’s good, and it’s in absolutely everything, it’s just like, I see you scratch your cheek. And, you know, it’s in the felt sense of the, the fingers touching the cheek, and this felt sense of the scratch, and the movement of the hand. And, you know, it’s, it’s speaking itself, like this, in this moment, this vastness is speaking itself as this record this canal. And so it’s allowing a person allowing themselves to relax, open into that. And so that’s where the energy is, it seems. Why? I don’t know, it’s not really a why it’s just sort of how it happened with me. But I can see looking back that in supporting people to find where energies are locked up inside, supporting them to find that and then in sitting with it, relaxing open to it, then it becomes part, it’s no longer resistance, it’s not resistance, it’s it’s part of the free flow of what’s happening in this expression of who they are.
Rick Archer: Let’s explore a little bit more how you became so comfortable with this, and so relaxed into it. I mean, you mentioned Isaac Shapiro. And in other talks, I heard you mentioned Paul Lowe, and some influence of Osho and different things. And obviously, everybody’s path is different. And you can’t offer any kind of universal prescription say, everybody should do what you did. But it’s kind of interesting also, to see how, you know, you move from one thing to the next, and how different things that you engaged in or encountered helped to, you know, open this up for you. So maybe you could trace us a little bit of over what you feel significant that, or what has been helpful, and particularly things that others might find helpful if the if those things are still available.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, I I was raised Catholic. And I believe it’s available. Yeah, it is. Now, not the, you know, the dogma but the, I always felt attuned to or enjoyed, like the scent of the incense, the sound in the church, the quietness that I could find there. And, you know, I don’t know whether it’s because it’s introspective. Or whether everybody is that way or not, but there is definitely something in the church, I at one point wanted to go to a Catholic college. But my parents didn’t want to drive me there was, it wasn’t a public bus area. So that didn’t happen. And I’m grateful for that now. Maybe, you know, again, sort of protected a little bit, but from going into rules and regulations, right, which, so subtracting that part, there was definitely some of those rules that I did do unto others as you do unto yourself. That that’s been huge. From before, I mean, I didn’t really know anything about people being able to wake up or I just knew about Jesus and Buddha, but I didn’t even know that they were in an awakened state. I didn’t. They were just religions, right. But that’s one thing from the church. I definitely marked up in church, do unto others as you would do unto yourself. And so I would often just imagine how it would feel if I was the other person. Yeah. Now I don’t know if that’s actually what started this whole thing about actually feeling the other person right. But certainly, the interest was there in what was happening for them and and a caring which a caring about what people feel and how comfortable they are. And so that was there too. But probably so much more caring about other people rather than myself. That yeah, that’s where I first learned it, and then gradually turned that very same caring towards myself. Um, so yeah, and then it was through working with my first husband, and then we opened our relationships to Tantra, from a regular way of being sexual together for for the sensations of it, we changed it and grew together towards opening to love and letting love be the reason to meet in that way. And that the, the sexual energies can support a deepening of our connection with each other. So I’m just going to let my son know that the microphone isn’t working. So we’re using the room microphone. So he’s being very quiet there. Just in case, there’s some sounds.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I’ve got a few sounds around here too.
Canela Michelle Meyers: So yeah, the that sort of what we were looking to become closer and closer. And then also, I had gave birth to my sons. And when my sons were born, I saw that they were innocent, and whole, first one in 1990. Which is so obvious, innocent, completely innocent. And all that started a whole thing that my head couldn’t quite, it just started was tons of emotions and almost hysterical bit, and then when my second son came, and he was the same way. So what it was is that I looked at what what happened to me, why am I not innocent and hope? Why do I not feel innocent at all? Because not only one, but then two, I could see in the birth of those two beings, that we’re all born in a sense of hope that we all come in that way. And so what happened? Yeah, and that’s so that became my question. And also, I needed to. I wanted to not throw my anger towards my sons, because they were innocent. I knew that when anger rose up, it was in both frustrations in me. And it didn’t have to do with them. And yet there was this feeling to actually yell and as if they were somehow to blame, because they might have triggered something open in me. And so I started looking for a place that would help me, because I felt I was going insane. And actually was on a crisis line.
Rick Archer: Why do you feel you’re going insane?
Canela Michelle Meyers: All these, I was afraid I was gonna hurt them. And I couldn’t
Rick Archer: we hurt them physically. I mean, you don’t? I mean, we It doesn’t I mean, every mother gets angry and so on. That was there anything abnormal about you? I mean, it’s a little abnormal in a positive way, that you that the birth of your sons was such a spiritual experience, and that you were so deeply impacted by seeing them as innocent and home. I mean, I don’t know if other mothers feel that when they give birth, but it seems like it really impacted you more profoundly than normal.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Oh, I didn’t believe I was. I was innocent. I was bad, right? i
Rick Archer: Oh, that’s some of the old Catholic guilt maybe in there.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, that everything that was good about me was it was either from my father from my mother from my auntie Lee, or, you know, from somebody else, and everything that was bad was mine. Oh, okay. Great. So that’s how I was raised. And that’s a normal way. It’s not to say anything against my mom and dad and I were very good friends. And so there’s a hesitancy in in speaking a lot about what you know, kind of stuff happened. Sure has their they were innocent. And it was just stuff that happened to them as well. Yeah, they were doing the best they could. They were doing the best they could and so yeah, anger at times where it was unleashed towards towards me as a child. And so when I had children, it was a natural modeling that
Rick Archer: you’re starting to do that too.
Canela Michelle Meyers: I wanted to but couldn’t. Yeah, that created a few have, you know, because I wasn’t there was no one leashing
Rick Archer: it was just bottling it up. Yeah, I
Canela Michelle Meyers: was bottling it up because I couldn’t take it there. Right. Yeah. And so I phoned the crisis line one night. And he said, Well, I mean, you can’t. In Canada here, you can get help if you’re suicidal. But I had earlier in earlier time, I attempted suicide. So I knew that I, I wasn’t suicidal, because I’m from that experience. Yeah, I would never, never commit suicide, because I know that the life force is just really super strong here. And yeah, so I could contemplate that, but it would never. It’s just a fact for me. Because I explored that. But in this this night that I thought I was going to be swallowed up by this black boy, you know, I felt okay. You know, I found this crisis line. And he said, what this is, what you’re dealing with is he just asked me a few questions about my upbringing, and, you know, stuff that had happened. And he said, Well, you’re just dealing with emotions, you need to get some help. And he suggested I go to ACO A, which is adult children of alcoholics. And, and there, I just told people in the group, I need help, you know, and somebody recommended this PD seminars and place over on Gabriel island that I started to go to where they supported me with foam blocks and stuff to be with the anger and let it unfurl, let it but you know, appropriately with a foam block where other people would pull the blocks
Rick Archer: your budget or something.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. And then breathing through it, like really allowing the energy to come appropriately. And so then I learned to do that on the futon at home. So if energies rose up, I would, I would just let my kids know. Okay, I need to go and hit the futon a bit. I’ll be back. Ah, go right. And did it wasn’t about you know them, right. And so things started to really shift. And, and that’s when I started to have some experiences. And then the Reiki came in. And the Reiki changed my life because the first experience everything disappeared. And all that was left was this white light. And that’s a fact. Yeah, that’s here. It’s not it open. So I can see that it was here. And that’s just a truth for me. So it’s made like quite different, right?
Rick Archer: So right when you did the right, it was something that something was being done to you or something you were doing or what I don’t know too much about.
Canela Michelle Meyers: My cousin was getting her reflexology registration, so she had to practice on Thursday.
Rick Archer: So she was practicing. I knew she asked if I would be a guinea pig. And you opened up and into white light.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. And then at the end.
Rick Archer: It’s reflexology is that muscle testing is on the feet. On the feet. Okay. Yeah. Massaging the feet. Yeah, they do the little acupressure points. Yeah. And they correspond to different parts of the body. Yeah, it’s an actual
Canela Michelle Meyers: physical pressing. Right. And at the end of that she, she massaged my aura. And no, I didn’t even know what an aura was at the time. And what when she did that, I just went, Oh, what is that? I love it, whatever it is you’re doing, please keep and she said, Well, I’ll go wash my hands. I’ll give you some Reiki. So she came and put one hand on my forehead and one hand on my chest and you move some energy. And then I instructed her, it came from my mouth, but there was no thought prior to it to press your palms against my palms. And she did my body flopped around a bit. And then everything, including me, her the cable, the world disappeared. And there was this white light that was all that there was and sort of some it wasn’t really time, it was more like three bits of space, I guess. And so then,
Rick Archer: and that just that was a shift and that it didn’t sort of it sounds like it was a sort of a permanent you know, it was a milestone and things weren’t the same after that. It sounds like from what you’re saying.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, well, that again, I realized I didn’t have to fight. I didn’t know I struggled so hard. I didn’t understand that. Those were also what resistance is Yeah, at that time, it wasn’t. It wasn’t it that I was on any kind of spiritual direction, right, I was just wanting to not hurt my children.
Rick Archer: It sounds like the, you know, the fact that you’re very sensitive and empathic and, and all this, it sounds like that. I mean, your makeup is such that throughout your life, you have perhaps had a more profound reaction to certain things than many people might have. I mean, smoked that joint when you’re 15. And all of a sudden, there was a huge change, you know, and you do Reiki and all of a sudden, there’s this huge thing. You know, so you’re, you’re kind of a finely tuned instrument that seems to me and and, you know, some people are a little bit more thick headed, myself included. But, you know, you you have quite a profound sensitivity that enables you to really, I, Isaac Shapiro said one word, and the big shift happened. I mean, that fascinates me the fact that, you know, you could be some maybe malleable is a good word, you know, the, this influence this influence, you know, evoke evokes huge changes and your, your makeup and your whole way of being, which apparently, are permanent.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yes. Well, and, you know, I, it’s true, I’m very sensitive, and life has been quite different for me, even, you know, as a kid, it was just different. I just watched everything, because how everybody else was reacting to stuff was totally different than what I was seeing. Yeah. And experiencing. And I didn’t understand it. I just stopped talking and was with it all as best as I could be. You know, because if I pointed to it, people told me, you know, you’re an augur. Well, I was ridiculous, stupid. I mean, what are you talking about? That’s not what you know. And definitely, perhaps when I look back, somewhat threatened by what I would point to, and also definitely was very straightforward and just said things and that wasn’t good as a kid.
Rick Archer: These days, we have, you know, they call the indigo children who are these sort of special kids and they’re very psychic or empathic, or whatever. But, you know, it seems like there have always been people like that maybe they’re beginning to get becoming more common. But
Canela Michelle Meyers: Reiki, you know, when I assume people, so I’ve, you know, been practicing Reiki for 18 years now, since that point, and I took the training only to find out what the heck happened to me because I didn’t understand this white light thing. Yeah, except for that. I knew that it was bigger than everything that I’m hearing here. But I still was looking to understand it as if you beam and that’s what led me into this. So also, I became a Reiki Master so that I can attune people and all that is is an opening of the crown chakra to your own. Listening to yourself. You’re from your second chakra here. All
Rick Archer: that is means all Reiki is,
Canela Michelle Meyers: well, it’s an attunement, it opens the crown chakra.
Rick Archer: That’s that’s where Reiki initiation is. That’s its ultimate purpose.
Canela Michelle Meyers: No, that’s what when you take Reiki level one, you know, that’s what happens, initiations and it’s you commit to it by paying for it. And then it it deliberately opened the crown. And so then people do open to their sensitivities, or, or however it is, they see energies like that. The trick is, is that you will be hearing energies in your own way. So you can’t compare it.
Rick Archer: Does it work that way for everybody? Yeah. I mean, there’s nobody flunks the class.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Nobody’s lunch the class, it’s just basically are you interested to explore listening to your own intuitive and higher self directly, if you’re interested in that, and then Reiki just gives a container and how to play with it.
Rick Archer: So it’s the training somehow gives you a technique or a practice or a way of, of having that happen?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, there’s the attunement. So that just happens. That’s it. It’s done. Yeah. So it’s like you opened the door, but you
Rick Archer: saw some somebody else who enables that to happen, or you yourself, have that happen somehow,
Canela Michelle Meyers: in the price actually do the initiation on people. And then
Rick Archer: when you do, then it opens up for them. Yeah. And then they theoretically could become trained and do that for others and so on.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, yeah. It’s just learning how to do the initiation with others, and then it’s the practicing so it the crown gets opened in the person’s interest is in healing for themselves and others. And so, through time and practicing Reiki, that’s what I mean that, that so that sensitivity that I was already born with, like, the color of my eyes or the shape of my nose, so it’s To me, it’s not special, because it’s just what’s here. It was good. Right? And and yeah, it’s all special, just like the color of my eyes. Yeah, and the shape of my nose, because it’s just happened that way. But unlike
Rick Archer: your eyes and your nose, the fact that you sort of made a practice of it and put attention on it has enabled it to blossom more and more. Yeah, over a 10 years.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And thankfully, because it gave me a direction that finally my world I wish I could offer it. Yeah, he with people and people actually wanted it, you know? And so compared to just being by myself with whatever was happening, and apparently nobody really interested in this viewpoint, right?
Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah, she is. She starting to think about lunch? I think. So, but obviously, he didn’t stop there. I mean, you know, because you’ve gone on to these other things. And so Reiki became part of your toolkit that sounds like, but, you know, then there were, I’ve heard you mentioned other things. So there must have still been a sort of a quest or a sense of, Well, keep going, there’s more to discover.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Well, what I noticed is that that Gabriel are the the place that workshops place that I would go to this PD seminars, I was taking workshops, like on a weekend or whenever I could, because of course, I had young children at home. So when things got to be where I was having a hard time handling regular life, I would give myself a weekend over there to be with myself and learn what’s going on and give myself the space. You know, just to see what’s going on. And so I noticed that the people that I was mostly attracted to, to do their workshops, started disappearing. And so each time I would go, I would look for them on the, you know, on the roster to see, what are they offering next, they wouldn’t be there. And they were all going to travel with this guy, Paul Lowe. So, so of course, I got curious about that. And so it was actually Paul Lowe’s book, he came to Vancouver, I guess it was in 1995. And I bought his book, I felt drawn to go and see you this was but I didn’t actually go to workshop us for another two years after that, but brought the book with me on this trip to South America. And so my husband and I were, you know, reading it sort of together and exploring what he was saying. But one of the things was is that, you know, the experiment is over, you can wake up. And so this is the first you know, I’m hearing about this waking up stuff. And so I say, okay, wake up to myself. And I knew it wasn’t good. Yeah.
Rick Archer: And so kind of it wasn’t it mean, you didn’t wake up? Yeah. Now this, this is not hopefully this is not the version, but um, some a couple weeks ago, some guy from Italy emailed me and said, You gotta check out Paulo. So I looked up Paulo, and the first thing I saw was a whole group shot of a bunch of people sitting there naked. And I thought, Okay, well, this guy’s from Italy, you know. So, the Prime Minister, Italy has Bonga Bonga sex parties and 17 year old. So I guess that makes sense, but doesn’t seem like something it’d be appropriate for my show. But is that the same guy? And what’s that all about?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Sounds like the same guy. So what Hall halls space? No, it was about seeing who you are and what you were afraid of. And he’d like to go right up to the edge of everything inclusive of sexual sexuality. So where are you afraid? Are you actually afraid of? Like, if you’re a man of other gay men? Or, you know, do you have a homophobia inside yourself? And then he would invite Well, what do you know, if you haven’t experienced it directly? How could you be so sure? And then what is this fear about? Right? So is the fear rising for some reason?
Rick Archer: So how would you how would you have explored it? Would you go and have sex with a man even if you weren’t gay or something like that? Or what’s added
Canela Michelle Meyers: fear around it or a resistance to it? It’s what Paul would invite is attraction or reaction. So either you’re attracted to something, or you’re reacting to something both are invitations to move towards yourself,
Rick Archer: and if you’re neutral about it, then it may not be an area you need to explore. Okay, so
Canela Michelle Meyers: all the different of course, you know, in our westerns, in all of the walks of life, there are all sorts of things around sexuality of what’s allowed what isn’t allowed. What’s taboo, what’s not?
Rick Archer: Yeah. And it’s interesting that so many so often you’ll, you know, some preacher who has been railing against homosexuality will end up having, you know, being caught in some homosexual relationship. Yeah, he’s the one who’s shouting the loudest against it.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Right? Yeah, exactly.
Rick Archer: Yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: That sort of thing. So. So for that, you know, a lot of people would be very uncomfortable and call Paul Lowe wrong. And for sure, it did attract some people who were maybe just wanting to mess around with the sensation sexual and, you know, be able to be with all these people who are being open. So.
Rick Archer: But he was trying to be an iconoclast, he was trying to break people’s boundaries and uncover their phobias and
Canela Michelle Meyers: supporting them to Yeah,
Rick Archer: yeah, helping them do that.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. And he, he is more of a guru. So he, he has people, you know, that he’s the one that says, stuff. And people believe that. And so that part of, you know, I was sort of there because of his book, but also because the people he attracted. Were just such high caliber people of interest, and homeopathic doctors, and really, you know, if they’re willing to go exploring on extreme edge like that, they’re pretty amazing people. Yeah. And, and also, P like to, to invite something called a sharing of inner dialogue. So whatever it is that the mind is coming up with judgments and stuff to actually just say it out loud, instead of keeping it inside to yourself. And so this would create a completely beautiful level of intimacy, as we all would practice this, sharing it or inner dialogue, it again, would open and release tensions around the truth, and being willing to expose that to others. And honesty, again, has its merits of opening to oneself. So that which is hidden, of course gets exposed. Right, then, you know, how humbling is that. So that kind of work isn’t attractive to a lot of people, because they don’t really want to share what they’re truly thinking, what they truly feel,
Rick Archer: was a certain sense, though, I mean, you know, they’re the encounter groups of the 60s and early 70s, where you just spill all your garbage. And some of that was of dubious value. You know, there’s just sometimes it’s better not to sort of just, I mean, you can disagree with me, but it seems to me sometimes it’s just bad manners, to divulge everything you’re thinking,
Canela Michelle Meyers: funny, because later on, like, you know, going to Rosebank to Australia, and living in a house with a bunch of people who were also with Paulo, you know, and practicing, sharing their inner dialogue and all that. But the reason I, you know, hindsight, again, that what that group gave me was a place to let go of my life. So Paul didn’t say, you know, to the whole group at Harvard hotsprings will, you know, you have to let go of your life of the world as you know it, and never to experience this that I’m pointing to. And when I heard that, I knew it was true for me.
Rick Archer: And you actually, yeah, you actually left your husband and your kids at that
Canela Michelle Meyers: moment. And I was ready to just go walking out from heartburn and right then and go with nothing, and my knee had gone out of joint dance. So I would have had to use crutches. Like that load on the road and just let life take me. And he Paul said, Hold it, hold it hold it, you don’t have to do it. Like yeah, you know, you need to you know, you can do it with support. And so then that’s I needed to go home to my children you know and and husband at the time and work out what we could arrange so that I can be free to you know, let go without knowing what was going to happen. I mean, we gave we gave me a six month period and then we would see what would need to happen from there. Um, but I need to let go of everything. Yeah. So we’re down to like one box of mostly rocks and feathers and books. That’s it that’s all I have my old life and of course all the experiencing was still with me. Yeah. All the connection everything is just the belongings that I let go.
Rick Archer: Right? Yeah, I heard you say that you pretty much left your family for maybe only for see I mean, the kids that you’re referring to now your son who was making noise in the kitchen are those the same kids that you left then So you came back to your family or different husband maybe but you you didn’t like permanently walk away from your children or anything?
Canela Michelle Meyers: No, but at the time, I didn’t know that I would be going. I did let them go without knowing what
Rick Archer: would happen. Yeah. And that wasn’t easy. Yeah, I can’t imagine. Yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And so that’s what it’s funny when you’re talking about the benefits of the sharing the inner dialogue and all that stuff, and giving each other feedback on where person. So then I ended up in this house with all these other Paulo people. Right. And, and I ended up just not saying a lot, because everything I said, if I, you know, none of them had left their children. Right. They had no idea what I was experiencing. And in that, and so, if I attempted to share something, they would all jump on what I said and say, Oh, I’m not being present, because my children aren’t here right now. And you know, but what was present was a huge upheaval, as I was letting go, what I realized afterwards is that I have to be with my children. And I have to be with them in some way. So what I actually let go of was form of it was right,
Rick Archer: was having it you let go of having it define you. You know, yeah, yeah, in
Canela Michelle Meyers: some sort of have to write. So, you know, it became very clear. Prior to doing that, I saw that they were my husband at the time, and my children. Were like a chain, chain, shackle a ball and chain around my ankle that I was using as an excuse to not do what I knew I had to do. And so when I saw that, that clearly, I knew I had to let them go and find out what this was that was calling me inside. And cause
Rick Archer: some, some people would, some people would accuse you of being self indulgent and irresponsible for doing something like that. Like all my family. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Right.
Canela Michelle Meyers: So against, yeah, everybody. Nobody wanted me to do what I was doing. I could feel it. And felt completely drawn. Now, most people were very threatened. You know, I didn’t just leave my kids. And they were they were five and six years old. I didn’t leave them in a ditch or something, you know, all right. I left them with their father willing to be with them. Yes. But I didn’t know that.
Rick Archer: So you severed the ties in a responsible manner. You didn’t just go walking out?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. And I didn’t really know that. I still felt like I was doing something wrong.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I’m sure it must have been a big huge. It was
Canela Michelle Meyers: great. Yeah, I could do what i i had to step away from everything. 100% Yeah. And then, at the same time, I felt like I was torturing myself.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, it took a lot of courage. I mean, it was a very bold thing to do.
Canela Michelle Meyers: It was it was a very, and it was necessary. And of course,
Rick Archer: let’s say everybody in the world should do it. But you’d had to and I had to, there was no,
Canela Michelle Meyers: that was the direction I for for this person. And so that’s what I support people. It’s, it’s what’s right for them. And what’s true for them not Yeah, what I did, because it, you know, but sometimes people get triggered open and know, when they hear these words that Oh, boy. Yeah, about that, you know, and, but they will find their way. And it’s important that they find their unique way of opening to all that is,
Rick Archer: I mean, yeah, there are no universal prescriptions, but But it is interesting to hear what people have gone through such as yourself, as long as it’s offered with the proviso that you’re not, you know, saying everyone should do this, but it’s fascinating to hear, you know, the path, the path that different people have taken. And you can see how, I’m sorry, go ahead.
Canela Michelle Meyers: I was just gonna say that I didn’t know when Paul Lowe said that in at Harben. And I knew when he said it, that that’s what I that’s what had to happen. I didn’t know that that’s what bringing ideation was. So I didn’t know until afterwards that that’s what I had done is renounced my life. Yeah. I didn’t know that all I knew is that I needed to let go of everything. So I could see and feel whatever this was that was calling them side. And
Rick Archer: that’s a form of pronunciation. You know that there’s also an inner renunciation which in which one could have very well renounced to profound degree while yet appearing to be completely involved in all the normal aspects of life. But I really do think that sometimes an external renunciation such as you did, can be instrumental in you know, breaking a lot of ties and boundaries and perhaps, perhaps leading to the internal running. Like right now. I’d say you’re probably in a very renounced state, even though you’re back in the family.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Right? Yeah. Those those lines of whatever You know, I never do. We never picked up a game, right? I met my sons newly, and needed to learn how to figure it all out. As we went along, yeah, step by ability as equals. So it totally changed how we were together. And
Rick Archer: yeah, so you’re not your average mom. I mean, how are you kids turning out? How old are they now?
Canela Michelle Meyers: They’re 19 and 21. They, I, the reason I live in North Vancouver is that I moved back here from Massachusetts. I am Canadian born. But I was living in Massachusetts, because that’s where when I left my life, that’s where my ex husband took the boys. And so I went there to be with them. And so that there for a couple years, and then brought them back to Canada with me. Because that’s what was true of this car to be with them was the only direction. Yeah. And so now they’re, they’re totally resourceful to their own selves, I, they don’t come to me, for me to show them how to be happy, or is it ongoing to give them their happiness? Right. They’ve learned to access their own self and support themselves. And I can be here and support them if need be. But they’re able to respond, they’re responsible, they’re able to respond to their own scenarios, to such a high level that my heart is completely at rest. That’s great. You know, of course, I, I love them. And I want them to be happy and everything. And when things happen that maybe aren’t so comfy for them, I feel that and I let them be, because I don’t what am I? How do I know what they’re supposed to be going through? You know,
Rick Archer: were their teenage lives. fairly smooth. I mean, yet really, too, too crazy.
Canela Michelle Meyers: You mean the drugs and alcohol stuff?
Rick Archer: Yeah, all that stuff and stuff that a lot of us went through. I mean,
Canela Michelle Meyers: again, I spoke with them long before and shared with them. What happened with me with the marijuana and with alcohol, they were part of, you know, my life at that time, they were maybe three and four years old or something like that. But certainly I shared when I was a teenager, what I did, and I, I did go to lots of parties, and did all sorts of things that were completely dangerous. And yeah, drinking, driving all the stuff that that we did was crazy. But I made it through that. And so I said, Well, I prefer to know when you start exploring. So I can be with you in heart. You know, not that, you know, of course, I would love to actually be there to
Rick Archer: driving, not likely mom.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And so they explored and shared with me when they were exploring with alcohol and smoking marijuana and what that was like for them, you know? Yeah. And so there’s been some dates where you have phone calling late in the night to come and pick them up. And it’s really beautiful. And it’s like, we can go through hard times together. Yeah. Being mutually supportive. You know, it’s different.
Rick Archer: It seems healthier than the average relationship that kids have with their parents. I mean, I’m sure there are many other good examples, but this is a it seems like it’s worked out, you know, I mean, so far, so good. Yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: I still imagine that they’re gonna need to go through some workshops and deal with whatever I did, and, you know, maybe some bad and it stopped when I did lead them to their father. And yeah, I don’t know if that’s, you know, I talk openly about that.
Rick Archer: That’s what that’s a workshop right there. You know, just the fact that you’re so communicative with them. You’re, I’m sure you’re helping them resolve things that, you know,
Canela Michelle Meyers: yeah, their pages. You know, my one cents come to satsang. And just so he can see what it is that I do. Yeah. And, you know, his feedback was, oh, you’re just being you. Yeah. Right. You know, it’s sort of like, okay, it wasn’t, and it was it was magnified because of the interest in the container of satsang. Right, um, but both of them are are amazing. People. I’m honored that they’re part of my life and their sensitivities or whatever they are, they’re not playing in in them directly, but they’re totally aware that they’re part of know what’s happening in their own experience in their lives. It’s
Rick Archer: great. So you had your polo phase. And then you you alluded to Isaac Shapiro, I mean, was there any point in your life the big aha grand turn around? You know, some, you know, some people refer to that sort of thing like, I, when I had my awakening, it was like, a watershed moment, night and day difference, things have never been the same sentence. So far. You’ve alluded to sort of a number of milestones, but it has a, you know, with with Isaac, was that what you were referring to there? Just that was really the the big kahuna.
Canela Michelle Meyers: That was the big kahuna. Yeah, so yeah, that’s awareness realized itself. And it’s not it’s nothing’s been built up since then. There’s been no, it can’t go away. I cannot move out of the moment. Right. I played with this, to try it out
Rick Archer: and see if you can move out.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, just to see. Okay, you know, and it’s like, it just add, of course, that playing with it just solidified it even more,
Rick Archer: what would you do to try to move out of the moment? Oh, well, I
Canela Michelle Meyers: think I shared this in, in an interview somewhere. But yeah, I tried. I got really super drunk. See if I could make it go away. Make it go away. Lose it somehow. Yeah. And no. Awareness was aware when double vision was happening. And the you know, the the response to the alcohol in the body the next day, and thankfully, I do have Reiki right. So yeah, even though there’s the feeling of the body attempting to deal with the poison. I can use Reiki to soothe myself as that’s happening.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And presumably, that was an experiment. You didn’t need to repeat marijuana to, to see what would happen.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. And there was some stuff with a shaman who was doing Ayahuasca journeys. He did that. Well, first, he invited me because of the state of awareness to be with people. Yeah. And so I was there just with people without taking anything myself. And I would kind of journey with them because of the sensitivities. I can, right. Yeah, you’re tuning into, yeah, just just being with them completely. So we can travel together with whatever it was that was going on with him. And then it occurred to not be afraid of drugs anymore, to see what it would be like and to trust the shaman and trust awareness that because I was still giving it some power, if I was afraid of it, yeah. As it could have some power over me. And so I, I tried it and it was beautiful, lovely. Actually, ecstasy was the first one, and then the ayahuasca and then journeying with people with the Ayahuasca. And it was fine. It was just, it just opened other doorways of awareness.
Rick Archer: So So as in the midst of all that self being aware of itself, and yet this whole thing caused by ayahuasca, I mean, in other words, that the sort of the ground state continuum of self aware of itself was unperturbed by the whatever effect I Alaska had. Yeah, yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah. Well, the WASC I just felt like somebody was searching around and looking under rocks and panties and searching all through the system to find something that it didn’t find anything. So yeah, that was that. I didn’t need to explore that anymore. You know,
Rick Archer: there was a story from rom rom das be here now where he went and saw Neem Karoli Baba and India and had some LSD in his pocket. Neem Karoli. Baba said you brought the pills and give them to me and just popped like several of them, you know, more than anyone would ordinarily take. And yeah, nothing happened. Yeah, yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, that’s like the ecstasy the first time it was with the fear. And it was just like liquid honey, sort of flowing through. And it was a lot of seeing stuff. The next time. It was with people who were doing it recreationally. Yeah. And I just meditated. It just was sort of a hump. And then the next time it was nothing at all.
Rick Archer: Yeah. So have you satisfied your curiosity with all that sort of experimentation? Done that been there? Well, to that degree, I
Canela Michelle Meyers: don’t know what,
Rick Archer: what else seems like? Yeah, certainly, there’s
Canela Michelle Meyers: not a fear of drugs anymore.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And you’re not but you feel no need to sort of test to see, you know, what effect this that the other thing is gonna have on your awareness, it’s sort of like,
Canela Michelle Meyers: oh, it’s been 14 years. Yeah. You know, in this, this other part of what’s happening as far as there’s a lifetime and there’s a human being, it’s traveling. Yeah, in what we call time. You know, contained the moments in this time thing.
Rick Archer: One thing, if you’ve watched any of my interviews you may have heard me ask and is, you know, having established Self Realization, or whatever terminology you want to use. Most people that I talk to even sort of very, you know, well known, well respected teachers such as Gandhiji, and Adi Shanti. And people like that. They all seem to say that, yeah, but that’s not the end of the journey. And it’s not the end of the exploration, there’s, there seems to be no end to the unfoldment or refinement, or that’s,
Canela Michelle Meyers: that’s why I say, I don’t know, right? When you say is experimenting over five? It seems like the way that the exploring comes up is, is there a fear around it? And so you know, the only thing occurs to me in this moment is I believe there is some fear, yes. around getting laser eye surgery. And, and so I’ve been toying with this all my brothers and sisters have had it. Yeah, you know, I still wear hard contact lenses at night that reshaped my eyes for during the day, but I’ve been afraid to end yet it would be totally supportive. For clear vision.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I know, people who have undergone it, and they all say it’s great, you know, it’s made a big difference. Yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: And so, you know, I feel like that maybe that’s gonna happen in the spring. And yeah, you know, there’s parts of me that still play out the whole Catholic thing that, you know, if I’m looking for clear vision, am I being ungrateful for what I do have? So that’s,
Rick Archer: that’s, that’s like saying, if I’m eating healthy food, you know, instead of doughnuts. It’s like, you know, you help your body and function as well as it can.
Canela Michelle Meyers: That’s true, right? It’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s all the different things. You know, it’s like, treating myself as a woman instead of something that’s neither a man or a woman, you know, right, just enjoying her as she is, and doing what’s appropriate. And at the same time, because there’s been so much questioning around this issue, I do get that there is something for me, in the learning of that, even if it is just let go and do it. And trust?
Rick Archer: Yeah. In a way, have you found that the learning has accelerated as a result of the, you know, self realization that somehow lessons or learn more quickly and more appropriate lessons are sort of encountered?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, it’s, it’s more of a it’s, it’s not so extreme.
Rick Archer: You don’t have to do such radical stuff. You mean to
Canela Michelle Meyers: to learn more, or the learning doesn’t come in such a radical way?
Rick Archer: It doesn’t have to be so demonstrative or so?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, it’s not extreme. So the results aren’t as extreme. It’s more smooth, subtle. Yeah, it’s more smooth and subtle. Well, you know, it it. You know, it’s weird to say, but you get used to. Yeah. And then, you know, sometimes, in a moment, there could be something like angels holding me close. And it’s literally eautiful. Literally,
Rick Archer: you’ve seen it, you see them, or sense their presence or what?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Absolutely. Both? Yes. Hmm. So if that’s what comes up, right, it’s yeah, it’s not where I tuned in 100% of the time, or whatever, but it’s just like, This is heaven.
Rick Archer: I’m glad you mentioned it, actually, because a lot of people know, most people don’t mention that sort of thing. And, and, you know, I’ve always heard that there is this sort of more celestial realm, and that, once self-realization has been established, the capacity to tune into that is going to be enhanced? Or maybe and yeah,
Canela Michelle Meyers: yeah, well, it’s it’s I don’t know if it’s been more, it’s probably more with the Reiki and stuff,
Rick Archer: huh? Yeah, yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, the first time that, you know, McHale, the Archangel Michael use with me in you know, just for a chunk of time when I was in Massachusetts, very literally.
Rick Archer: So literally meaning, almost like as if concrete perception almost, literally, but to
Canela Michelle Meyers: me, it was concrete. Yeah. It’s like, you know, walking down the street and having him with his wings around me. Wow. Beside me. And so yeah,
Rick Archer: and you knew it. We knew it was him for somebody. Yeah, somehow. Yeah. And why was he doing that? Do you think
Canela Michelle Meyers: in supporting me I guess you know, living like this being sensitive. There’s been a, because people haven’t been very caring, um, up until now, perhaps so you know, but you know, it pours over time. That realm has been extremely with me even as a child as a support, so, you know, and then there was a time where it’s like, oh, yeah, what the heck with the humaneness? Because, you know, I have this whole other realm of, of angels and spirits loving me. Who needs humans? Right? Yeah. And so it’s more about being with other human beings as a, as a joyful encounter, or whatever it is, I mean, sometimes just feeling drawn, like, my heart just starts to beat and then I’m like, Oh, great. Okay, now I have to say something to my heart saying, Alright, say something. And that’s how it tells me sometimes it might be really, really hard and, and say, Okay, now now I know. And I guess it’s like the Quakers. Right? They get shaken.
Rick Archer: I don’t totally get what you’re saying right now, your heart literally starts beating hard and you feel compelled to say something in what context?
Canela Michelle Meyers: Sometimes, like in, in participating in, like a session, we’re like, here’s where we are part owners, my dad and us are hackers in a condo down in Mexico, and some of the stuff that goes on as far as the rules and regulations and what people are, without all the owners getting to vote. So part of me stands up. And so I kind of roll my eyes at myself and say, okay, here she goes.
Rick Archer: In other words, you just have to play an assertive role, sometimes to deal with situations.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Example. It’s like when consciousness calls on me directly, sometimes it’s stronger. And I may 1, feel that the part of me would go, Okay, well, I’m not touching this. Right. Yeah. And then my heart being strongly it’s like life says, Oh, yes, you are. And then seeing what happens, how, what am I going to say with this? And what shows up? All I know, is that I mean, that’s, that’s the only thing that’s leading me is what my heart besides basic stuff, you know, it’s the body, the stomach might feel hungry, so I’ll feed myself, you know, or thirsty or whatever. The whole thing’s playing itself out. Yeah. And so the heart is sort of the bigger leader, but in conjunction with the mind and however, the flavor of who I am, it all comes into all available to play in the moment.
Rick Archer: Good. I mean, that’s refreshing in a way, because there’s, there’s some people talk who, who put such strong emphasis on the fact that there is nobody at home, you know, and it, it has, that’s the gorgeousness of it. Yeah, that’s nobody
Canela Michelle Meyers: talking to nobody right now. Right. There’s also this, that appears here, that could easily be absolutely not here. But it is, yeah, there is this, Rick, you know, there is the felt sense of your feet on the floor, you know, there’s this whole play of its own self, it’s in the nothing, the plane itself is nothing. I don’t know. It’s, it’s true. And, to me, the joy is being with the appearance, the play of it all. It’s a dance.
Rick Archer: Exactly. And, and the, I guess another way of putting it is that the absolute view and the relative view are not mutually exclusive. You know, it’s the two if they can be seen as two are part of the whole package. And, you know, and it sounds like, you know, you live very kind of engaged life in many ways. You know, you’re not beating the drum of impersonality there’s there’s also a very vibrant personal expression. Yeah.
Canela Michelle Meyers: It’s in dropping into that. Yeah, that’s the love. I mean, so the perspective here is that it’s all love, right? Absolutely. Literally, that’s so love doesn’t deny itself. Yeah. It just doesn’t it just doesn’t mean why or whatever. I don’t know. It just doesn’t. It’s not part of so the character the Sure, I mean, I’m just a human being, I’m going to say things that people won’t like and other people will and, you know, it’s like, oh, well I’m with it the best I can and you know, apologize if that’s what’s necessary feels to me and usually that just opens another door. Yeah. Being closer with people so it all seems to just work anyway, even if it is glitchy at times yeah, and there’s an enjoy meant, you know, is that what we’re here for? To be enjoy? Is that a choice? I’m not I’m not sure. But that’s what I like to support for people.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I heard a beautiful quote the other day and maybe we can close with some with a brief consideration of this something like I should write it down but it’s something like God became man so man could become God or could realize God or something. It’s sort of like we didn’t God didn’t sort of create this beautiful form to just become a colorless blob it’s more for the the full expression of that realization, you know, that we can that that can be had the full channeling or blossoming of expression of God of the Divine. In the world. Yeah. Yeah, we’re like tools or instruments through which the divine can be infused into into the world.
Canela Michelle Meyers: Yeah, not just can be is is played Yeah, perfectly. You know, I love it. You’d say that it does touches me for you. And so that can be looked at as something, yo, ya know, this is God speaking. Yeah. Is it is and your God speaking or goddess? No, everyone looks at the universe itself, playing itself just like this exactly. Nothing more, nothing less than this. As Rick or as Canella, or as a computer as Skype. All of this is occurring here, right now.
Rick Archer: Beautiful. Well, let’s end on that note. That’s it, we can’t improve upon that. That’s great. And God in the form of our dogs are eagerly looking forward to a love a walk on this lovely day that we’re having here in Iowa. So we’ll do that. Um, let me just make a couple of concluding remarks briefly, just in case somebody is tuning into this interview for the first time and never heard one of my interviews before. Every week, I do one, and I archive it on batgap.com, which is an acronym for Buddha at the Gas Pump. So if you go there, you can find them all. You can sign up for a little email newsletter to be notified when new ones are posted. You can subscribe to a podcast to get this on your iPad. You can participate in the discussion group that takes place there with each interview people chime in and start discussing points that were mentioned in the interview. And sometimes I’ll post a question to the guest. And I would invite you to come in and answer that if somebody posts it says a donation button there if you if you’re not if your finger happens to drift over in that direction, feel free to give it a click. And that’s about it. So I’ve been speaking with Canella Michelle Myers, who lives in Canada but travels around and does satsangs in different places and has all kinds of videos and so on on the internet you can watch and I will link to her site from batgap.com. So you can explore that and get in touch with her if you like. And next week’s interview if all goes as planned should be with Greg good. It’s very interesting fellow and clear exponent of the direct path as it’s called. So thank you, everyone. Thank you all for watching and or listening. Thank you, Michelle. It’s really been well canal on the show, and really enjoyable talking to you. And we’ll do it again sometime. Thank you, Rick. Thanks