Victoria Ukachukwu Transcript

This is a rough draft generated by Someone is proofreading it, but if you would like to proofread others, please contact me.

Victoria Ukachukwu Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually Awakening people. We’ve been doing this for almost 13 years and that represents over 650 interviews. If this is new to you, and you’d like to check out some of the previous ones go to Bat gap and look under the past interviews menu. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it, there are Pay Pal buttons on the website and a page which offers alternatives to that. My guest today is Victoria hookah Chukwu. She is a trained scientist with a PhD in organic chemistry from Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, mother of two daughters, and she told me earlier that her name, was it of God or word of God, word of God. So Chukwu means God in Nigerian language. And uka uka must be word of right.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Uka means word. See, it’s that there’s no “of” there, but it means the “of” is implied in the first in the first part of that construction. That’s that was Yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah. Okay. So you came to my attention, I forget exactly how there was some, some email or something, some web page that I stumbled across, and I saw you listed there with two or three other people. And I read a brief bio of you. And, you know, I thought, well, she would be really interesting to interview. And unlike most of the people that I’ve interviewed, you haven’t done YouTube videos, you haven’t written books, you’re not a professional teacher, or anything. But that’s, we like people like that on this show. Because one of the original motivations for starting it was to show people that you don’t have to be some kind of special person, in order to be spiritually awakened that, in fact, the subtitle of the whole show is conversations with ordinary spiritually awakened people. And that’s the impression we’re trying to convey that this is something for everybody. That’s not extraordinary. It’s everyone’s birthright in a way. So we’re glad we found you.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Well, thank you for inviting me, I’m glad to be here.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So I got the impression from the bio, he said that, you know, for most of your life, as is the case with most people, you identified primarily with your, you know, normal human identity, you know, your, your marital status, your profession, your training, you know, things like that. And you said in your bio, that, over time, this identity began to feel very limiting. And you began to have questions about God and the nature of reality. And science wasn’t answering those questions for you. Neither was the Catholic religion in which you were raised. And then in 2010, which will be 12 years ago, now, you discovered the teachings of non duality. And things really began to blossom. So maybe you can take it from there and tell us how, what happened, I mean, how things proceeded.

Victoria Ukachukwu: So as you as you noted, you captured it quite well, I have through graduate school, were actually part of going to grad school was to answer some of the questions that came up for me as about reality and the nature of our existence here on Earth. And some of those within the domain of science. I would say I got some answers, but the larger question as to you know, how you, you have a question he gets it gets answered, and then more questions come up, I guess, and more questions come up. So I grew up a Catholic, I was raised Catholic. And so of course, I have a strong belief that grown in God in a god and then a God that is somewhere called heaven, called heaven. And I would often plead and pray and beg and petition Shouldn’t this God as issues came up for me. But I think it came to a head once I finished graduate school and I was having some personal issues, you know, relating to marriage difficulties, difficulties, difficulty in my marriage, which later ended. And I felt like at this point in my life, I should be able to handle whatever came up. Right. So any problem? Want me to realize that was just the beginning of the restlessness in terms of feeling like I really don’t have any control over anything over, at least for my life, much, much more. The Universe questions about the universe. That’s when I started. I became I became curious. Right. And one of the one of the first exposures I had was a book about on the nature of reality. That was published by Jane, who channeled Roberts Jane Jane Roberts. Yes. I don’t know how I came across that both I came across it in a library while I was still in grad school, literal reality sounded really fascinating. But I read the book, I think it was a Tuesday to sequence book volumes one and two. I to be honest with you, I had I had no idea what she was talking about. It just went over my head at that point in time. So I put it aside. Grad school would have been 19. And now I’m talking about 1985 to 87. About that time when I read this book, and I put it away and got busy with professional life and raising my two my daughters. Then in 22,009. There were there were I had real challenge professionally. I’ve been and I’m not going to name the institution, I was a chemistry professor and became I went into administration. And then there was a merger was a big, big merger, right that upended everything. I had been there for a while and thought I was building something. And that just threw me for a loop. And many people laughed, and I pondered, should I stay? Should I go, but anyway, not gonna get into all that? I said that to say that that was what really drove me to seriously asking, what is this all about? At this point, having done all this, I thought I had, I had done everything they said, if you did that you would would make a good life for yourself. Right? None of that. None of that didn’t happen that way. That’s when I went when went back. And I’m going to say this, I went back I went to a like to a bookstore to look for a book on the nature on reality. And God. Right. And as I was looking through the, the box, a book fell. And the book was the presents process by Michael Brown. He is not well, I don’t know if you know, I’ve heard

Rick Archer: of him. I don’t know much about him. But I’ve heard him

Victoria Ukachukwu: is his frumps or I believe originally from South Africa,

Rick Archer: and it actually fell off the shelf, it fell off the shelf

Victoria Ukachukwu: and and then I go to pick it up because I thought I had knocked it down. I go to pick it up. And it says the presence process. And I looked at it and like what is the presence process? So I started flipping through read the introduction, the introduction about what was about he had some health challenges, serious health challenges that he overcame, and this process was describing how he overcame it. And the introduction was well done because he was he was the he was emphasizing the fact that it doesn’t have to be a health problem it could be any challenge and this is the way to find the answers that you’re seeking. Wow. I’m like that’s what I was looking for. And I picked up the book when to pay for the book. And it had some apparently was a used book which I didn’t know so the cashier starts to bring it up and say oh I see has some markings well since it appears to be a useful you get a free

Rick Archer: Oh, that’s nice. I just want to add that there seem to be a little elves that hang out in bookshops, books off shelves because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard somebody say that they’re standing there and all of a sudden this book falls off and it’s exactly what they needed, you know?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Unbelievable so that that’s why I took it was The process. And right now in retrospect, it’s really it introduced me to meditation. That was it. He didn’t call it meditation, it was just a setting 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night, right. And basically, before bed, basically what it was is Be still, no matter what was happening, be still, right. But anyway, so I did that I followed the process finished. But here’s the interesting thing. He warned that if you follow this to the end, something unexpected may happen. Don’t be alarmed, don’t do anything about it. Don’t go running off looking. Don’t be frightened. And sure enough, I woke up one morning, I start limping. There was no physical, no obvious element, nothing felt like an ankle strain. I was really limping on one leg. And right. And I be prior to that I had no issues at all, no, no leg issues, no health problems. So I remember what he said, I said, Okay, I’m just gonna watch it. Ordinarily, I would have picked up the phone or call the doctor and got to see a doctor, I did not do that. Because he had said that especially I didn’t fall, I didn’t bump into anything. So within three days, I continued the meditation within three days, it cleared. So what that did was gave me faith in what he was sharing. Okay, that was the first my first foray into, into into this spirituality, spirituality. Otherwise, it was just Catholic, go to church and pray, right. So I finished his presence process and what the questions kept coming to me which we have which way to go which way forward professionally, I was debating whether to stay where it was, or move, right. And I kept and so incessant thought, What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And then as I was, one afternoon, I was just sitting on a couch, you know, one of those lazy afternoons, you’re not particularly doing anything just, and thoughts are coming and going. And it was about what do I do? What do I do? And then this clear, here, clearly, be more, do less. Rick, you have to understand, at that point I hadn’t, I knew nothing about non duality, or spiritual teachings. So I saw then that became my obsession. Because it was a voice. It wasn’t a thought it was very clear. And I said, and so the question was, the more to last, what does that mean? And I’m not used to not doing anything. If I if I wanted something to happen, I have to do something about it. And this, this guidance was in direct response to my question, what do I do? And it’s telling me be more, do less. So then I decided to not do anything and stay where I was, and just see what happened.

Rick Archer: not do anything meaning stay on the couch or in general? situation?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes. In terms in terms of all those things I was thinking about doing? Just be more, be more, do less. So how do I be more. And now you see that came on the heels of doing the presence process. So then I started delving more into meditation, using the process in Michael Brown’s book. And that’s what I was in, and then just, you know, going about my life, normally, and letting things be as they are and seeing what happens, I still was, you know, a little bit anxious and concerned about what am I doing and so on and so forth. But waiting for guidance, if you will, I’m going to just, you know, do the meditation, because that’s how I know to be more and see what happened. That’s when I a video popped up in my YouTube, I was on YouTube, and I see this video with him. I forget how many million views, okay, just the number of views. And it was the Laughing Buddha as the title of the video. And it was what was the first time i i heard of Mooji that video. He was with somebody and they were talking about something I don’t even remember what it was, but they were both laughing uncontrollably. So Oh, and then in there, there was the caption that says, To learn more about non duality and meditation, and how to access your truth. There’s something about accessing the true self, which is the source of power, everything in our lives go here. So then I went and I went to his website and saw some more meditations. And then I started trying those. This was in 2010. Nothing much came of that. But that led me to your website, because you had interviewed him. That interview was on his website. So then I said, Okay, let me see what this is about. Let me learn more about this. So I came to your website. And that’s where I found it talked about the self and all that and all of that was all new to me. Like, what is the self? What is that related? Is that what is God? What you know, more questions, right? Like New a whole new language that I I didn’t have didn’t understand. And I set it aside. Then think about a year later. At that’s how I discovered your website. Now. We’ll just look and see what’s in any video that looked interesting. And the next video that I watched was an interview of robots fire that you did. That would have been a year later. And he had written a book that I think they the transparency of them, maybe I’m not getting the title correctly, but I’ll tell you this, that interview was to me. It sounds like contentious, but because he was talking about there is no matter. Matter.

Rick Archer: Like physical world. Yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: physical matter, right? There’s no matter. And I remember distinctly using What do you mean, there’s no, this trash if I don’t take out the trash in my house, my wife is going to get upset with me. But I was kind of I was I was I agree with you, because as a chemists, what do you mean, there’s no matter? Chemistry is about the study of matter. Right? Its properties and structure, then that got me attracted to Rupert’s fire.

Rick Archer: If he was saying that to me now, I would probably say, Well, you’re right. And you’re wrong. There is and there isn’t. And it depends on what level of reality we’re talking about. But anyway, go on.

Victoria Ukachukwu: But I mean, he, he was not yielding an edge. So his conviction, you know, for me was like, How can you be so sure of what he’s talking about, I want to, I want to know exactly where he’s coming from. So I went and bought the books, his books, and read them. And what that did for me was there, I really need to talk to this guy, want to talk to him in person. And then the next retreat is here, I went to his website to see events that he were coming up. And he had an event in 2012, in Maryland, which I went to a three day retreat was all I could afford to do at that time. So in terms of time, so I went to that. And that was very interesting. He and He did teach, he shared his his yoga meditation. And one of the exercises he had he asked us to perform was to raise our hand. without effort, just let just just let it go on Houdyshell. I’m like, How is it gonna go up without effort? But anyway, I followed his direction and made way I had I had a moose paddling experience. It actually I felt like my hand was moving independently of me, like something else was moving it. I did not finish that retreat. I thought, Okay, that’s interesting. But why what what happened? I could not explain it. And he explained that a lot of times we think we’re doing things. But it’s the is the energy of being that. It’s being that is expressing, and then the idea of self and identity, a separate self comes in and use serpstat and claims to be the door. That was new to me too. So I resolved that I would actually now go to a full retreat with him. There was and it wasn’t until two years later saw that I thought it was in the summer, he had a retreat in the summer that I could attend all the others were during the academic year because I couldn’t take time to go. And that retreat was in Connecticut. And now I’m in 2012. So I went, I shared a room with somebody. And at the beginning of the first three days, I kept, I kept saying to my roommate, this is very boring. All of all of the everything he’s talking about, it’s already in his book. I don’t, you know, I went to his retreat in Maryland, and he’s just repeating what’s in his book. But on the fourth day, he each time though, when he will do the, the meditations, right, the what he calls the yoga meditation. But on the fourth day, was when I guess I snapped, it’s the best, the best way to put it. I can’t even you know, it’s hard to describe it, the best way I can describe it is what he was talking about leading us through an exercise about being aware, being aware, as our true nature and directing us to, to visually to feel it to go you know, how he does those exercises. And in the process of going into it, that what you know, what he described as a wet awareness, the infinity or the infinite nature of awareness, at the level of the mind, is felt as the body and the turnout eternal nature. And the level of mind is time, space and time. But anyway, he saw he asked us to go into a into, to feel it to experience it directly beyond the intellectual understanding. That’s what I was so excited. At that point, I think I just relaxed the, the mind, and just curious about what it is I would experience. And I just remember feeling like, you know, something that was very contracted, suddenly expanded, like, unbelievable, it was like, a heat. There wasn’t it wasn’t an explosion, but a huge release. Right. And I wasn’t there as an identity. All I remember was just being aware of this, this expansion, right? As a huge sense of exhilaration. Like it, you know, it’s like, wow, but I didn’t know what it was. It’s just the feeling the incredible feeling. And then thinking after it, I’m thinking, being aware, is that what I just experienced, there was there was nothing else other than that huge release, I call it to all tensions gone. The body was just kinda lamp. And it just felt wonderful, just wonderful. nothing mattered, it seemed like, this is this is all this is all I don’t need anything else. This was this was it. So the next session I what I noticed all was I felt like I no longer felt closely identify with my body. My body felt like now there was a distance between what I was what I am and my body. Like I’m observing the even the thoughts were like, things flowing through after that. So at the next day, when we had the next meeting, as part of that retreat, I asked him about it. And he’s it. He said that, you know, I’m so glad that God I received his guidance at that meeting, because he encouraged me to just let it be. Don’t try to understand it. Because the mind is trying to understand what happened. The mind cannot understand what happened. Don’t try to recreate it. That that was just the that what I had just experienced was a glimpse into our true nature. That was an experiential knowing a direct knowing of it. And to just let it go But and then this was the most important thing I got out that he said, Let it, observe it, and let it reveal itself to you. And that’s what I did. Three days later the retreat and that but I was the I was on such a high, I’ve never been that. I’ve never been that ecstatic in my life. Never. And now, you know, people talk about the influence of I’ve never taken any chemical things that make people high. That was unbelievable. And when he told me, he said, eventually, that you’re going to come back to it, you’re not going to stay there. You it will, it will, it will unpack itself at its own time. But you need to let it and just be with it and let it reveal itself. Okay, so then I met okay, I’m just gonna be aware. That’s my job now deal with. So the retreat and then came back, drove back to New Jersey, had taken it two week vacation from work. The first week was for this retreat. So the second week I was home. Thank goodness, I took that time, because that second week, I finally understood what error occurred totally meant by sitting on benches, except I was in my, in my living room. It I can say I felt incapacitated, but not physically. There was no desire to actually do anything, do anything physically, but there was contentment. If something needed to be done, there was no thought about and I just got up and did it. That was a big difference that I saw at that began to notice that I’m like, wait, things just happen without forethought. Right. And I was still able to function I do the things that I knew how to do or what needed to be done. But but there was just the overarching desire to just rest. And I wasn’t tired either. So at the end of my vacation, I was starting to get a little worried. It’s like, I have to go back to work. I can’t I mean, I can’t go to work and just sit at a desk and and watch things happen. That’s exactly what happened, believe it or not. At the time, I was, I was an administrator managing a number of programs, academic administrator. So I go back and come into my office, if they look strange. It’s like, what am I supposed to do? Here was the question coming up. I didn’t forget anything. I still remember everything, but it just seemed meaningful. And it’s like a trip. trivial. Right? The things I learned by sim like, all important is like it, they were no longer they didn’t have the same level of importance before this experience. So then, I followed the advice and just remainder were observing basically, I was very observant, watching. And then would actually the biggest thing was that thought I wasn’t engaging thoughts, the thoughts that will come about you need to do this, or this needs to be done, or you need to call this personally, I wasn’t engaging them. But what happened was things that like I need to do, if they came to mind, right, the activity any relevant activity was done. Let me explain. If it’s something I could do by myself, I did it. But it was something that required engaging with another person or other people. I found, what would happen is I would I would reach out to a person that I thought was relevant, and miraculously, much of the resistance that I have encountered in doing similar things in the past, I wasn’t encountering them. And then I will think of somebody that I need to talk to, and they will call me. Right? Or somebody I need to meet with. They’ll send me an email. I need to you know, can we meet to discuss? So that’s how things started to happen more effortlessly. And that’s when the realization began to dawn. Then this is I think this is part of the revelation They began to reveal its nature to me as they be more, I’m doing less meant being present. Just being aware being in presence. And in that presence, there is an intelligence that organizes and orchestrate things. And then the activity will follow. It’s it’s effortless, it’s more effective, more efficient, when, for the first time, it’s like, I’m not, I wasn’t, I find that I was not stressing out about things. I wasn’t planning too much. If you know, if you know, academia, it’s about planning. Like months in advance. There’s some of that but only as needed as relevant. So that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s how I came into non duality. And from from 2012, I would say I, until now, it has been me now. I feel like this, what I’ll call this presence. This awareness has been my has now been unfolding itself, and revealing its nature. If any questions get answered, before I even ask, and in miraculous all those questions I had dissolved, it was like I understood, I knew the answer. Right? Including one of them was what is God people? It goes by different names, presence, awareness, consciousness, the self Brahma, you know, what is God and so I’m going to stop there, because I’ve been talking a lot, but from 2012, with that experience of direct knowing, I would call it off. true nature of being aware and the, and the, and the release of the identity, what I call it. Identity free being, being without identity, you know, I saw nothing changed about me externally, I there are still those characteristics that I would have that would have identified me, but now there is no ownership of it. There’s, there’s just the functioning that’s just being pure being. And it’s unlike a Why didn’t I know this sooner. But I’ve saved myself a lot of headache. But that’s so that’s an in that process. I’ve come to also realize that it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an unfolding process is, it’s infinite. You never get to a point where you say, Okay, I’ve got this, it’s nature is infinite. It’s the incredible wisdom, you know, intelligence that it is. So I kept telling at the time, I was still with the meditation room, and I kept telling them, I said, I can’t believe how simple this is. I can’t believe how simple it is. But it became simple after the experience, not prior to the experience that I had. Yeah, so that’s, that, in a nutshell is how I would describe my experience to realizing true nature, which is I call identity free being, you know, being without identity.

Rick Archer: Well, that was beautiful. In fact, the the coherent way in which you unfolded that whole thing was, I think, symptomatic of the deep level from which your mind functions. And, you know, the spontaneous nature of your behavior now, as a result of this awakening, that was really clear. I’m glad I’m glad. Yeah, a few little thoughts that I’ll go ahead. We’re gonna say,

Victoria Ukachukwu: No, it’s, it’s, I call it the miracle of being of our being, you know, it’s like, we cannot it not it wouldn’t it’s known is by being it, you know, it you cannot describe it as something other than you, you know, so,

Rick Archer: right. For some reason, as you were saying all that I was reminded that verse from the bible of my yoke is easy and my burden is light. You know, come Come to me all ye Who are heavy, who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. And it’s like we shift into a more natural way of functioning, which is just more restful by its yes. Do less and accomplish more.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes. I mean, well, I’m glad you point you were picked up right now because in 2019, so if I can continue this unfolding basically is that is an unfolding now for me. In 2019, I came across are teacher all Paul Gorman is British? Yeah, I don’t think you know, I heard him. Yeah. He, well, I came across because I was on Amazon to order a book. So you know, you search and they show you the titles and all of your other

Rick Archer: suggestions. And the title came

Victoria Ukachukwu: up awareness itself, is this is the secret. Right. And I read the introduction sounded interesting. So I bought the book, read it, you know, at this time, you know, it’s like, there’s now spiritual discernment. I can, I can, you know, see what’s resonating as truth for me. And most things, I just leave them alone. But this one caught my attention. And I, I read the book, it was it was it was it was it was good. It was interesting. But he led me to Joe Goldsmith.

Rick Archer: You mentioned Joe.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, he led me to Joel Goldsmith. And in that first when I started reading, the infinite way, I think was the his seminal book, or Joe Goldsmith wrote. And he’s using his couching it in, in the biblical terminology. Initially, I was turned out because I, as I said, I was raised Catholic, but I had questions about people fighting and killing each other for in the name of God, right. So enough, so at that point, I got turned off of all religion. But so reading his book, he’s talking about the master, which is Jesus Christ, right, even though he himself was Jewish. So was Jesus. So was he Exactly. And that’s the that’s precisely the point. But, and of course, he’s talking about the same things except you’re using this different terminologies. But I was actually, I was actually picking up profound things, profound meanings or esoteric meanings in some of the biblical passages. And so I started now, now I got hooked. He, I was really fascinated at this point to see okay, because he was saying that the Bible contains all the secret that if anybody really understood what what those passages in the Bible meant, that we would understand the secret to harmonious living. So I was curious, I’m like the Bible. I know, as I you know, growing up, we read the bible cover to cover so. So anyway, and then I read some of his book, I think I sent you the Master speaks. By Joel Goldsmith,

Rick Archer: yeah, I didn’t read it, I’m afraid but you did send it. Yeah. Some of his stuff in the past. I think there are some recordings that

Victoria Ukachukwu: that’s my favorite, because in there he talks about the conscious realisation of the presence of God. And that, oh my God, it was like, wow, now I find somebody described describing what the, what I have experienced, like, able to capture it as best as possible. And his whole thing is that to know God, right, is life eternal. Right? Before that would have been just a biblical passage to me. But he well it goes on and I understood it. Now I from what he wrote that it’s to know to know our true being is to know God. He who and I think there’s a St. Louis who knows himself, his himself knows his his scar. His Lord was some quote somebody There’s a quote attributed to one of the teachers and then he unfolds from there, how this true nature is really an issue of non dual non dual being non dual being meaning there is not you, and God, there is just being as just being, you know, so, and that’s the so that’s the third, the third author and a series that of the books that I have read.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, if, if there was you and God as two separate things, then I guess God couldn’t be omnipresent because he’s somehow separate from you, you know, he’s there, and you’re over here. So, you know, if God is omnipresent, and we can explore what that really means, then, you know, I am the Father are one. Yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. That’s exactly I think again. It’s funny how, how words, oh, my goodness, words can interpretations are just endless, right? You’re endless. I, initially, when I would read those that that that statement? It would, it would refer to an identity that I am.

Rick Archer: Yeah, Jesus, the man you mean was Yeah. Special guy who was one with Guy. Exactly. Not anybody else.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Not anybody else. Right. Okay. Well, then, then. And then in his book, Joel Goldsmith points out that it wasn’t just Jesus, Jesus was saying, it applies to everybody, right? But then I’m thinking okay, so I and God one, it didn’t quite, you know, it’s, it took me it took a while to come to an realization that when that eye is expressed by being by the POB was an expression of pure Being, that’s the eye that is one with God is the same as he that is within me, is greater than he that is without right and you heard that one that’s another path the same thing. He that is within me is greater than he that is without meaning that he that is within is the is the spirit the spirit of God is the is God. And he that is with that who would that be? C that’s the the what I what I call it now is a functioning expression. Right? The expression when when things are happening, like I’m talking to you now anybody knows most of Victoria is talking to Rick but it’s simply an expression expression within this within within this one infinite being appearing as Rick and Victoria having a conversation.

Rick Archer: So it might say the ocean is greater than its individual waves waves Yeah, yes. Wave Yes. Little things. The ocean is fast thing. Yeah, yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: So and I will actually that reminds me in my what I will call my Christian prayer days, right? We know like I would dutifully kneel down and pray to God I was during that period for tumultuous period had to do with print world work of my profession. I remember kneeling and saying, you know, Sean, can you can you can you can Can I hear you talk to me, I want to talk to God now. I mean, show me your fish show me which so that I know that it’s you direct me I want to I want clarity. You know what, I got you on my face in the world. Now, now, it’s like, I say thank you, but I didn’t point it at that point. It puzzled me.

Rick Archer: So you mean even way before all this awakening stuff? Yeah. Yeah, that prayer and you got that answer?

Victoria Ukachukwu: I got that answer. That’s interesting. I think I did not know. I’m like I am How am I God’s face, you know, because, because of the identity. It just, it’s like, that’s the separation. It just separates you. And you know, and you and you can no longer you can’t even see how you could be related to God. Especially for with my Catholic upbringing. We are all sinners and you know, some of our As may or may not be redeemable right? But

Rick Archer: but can’t be recycled.

Victoria Ukachukwu: But but that was that that’s what prevented me from hearing that word from understanding what that meant. You are my face in the world? Yes, so I’ve never forgotten that, you know. And then I think looking back, I’ve had these, these messages but didn’t know what they meant.

Rick Archer: Would you is your interpretation of what that what you now know that to mean, such that you could also say that all of all people, and all animals, and all trees and everything are God’s face in the world?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes. Yeah. You know, again, I’m gonna go to bed, I do have this Christian background, which is why Joe Goldsmith’s referencing the Bible intrigued me. The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof. Yeah, that’s a biblical quotation. See, I think the religions came and said, removed God from the world. And what what do you have left when you do that? I have

Rick Archer: some big puppeteer in the sky. So I’m

Victoria Ukachukwu

so so yes, everybody, everything. You know, science talks about animate and inanimate, right? There’s just, there’s just the consciousness, it just the, the words, words fill film me sometimes the levels of, or the degree of unfoldment, or the degree of illumination, as Joe Goldsmith will say, officially, but as any any appearance appears in this magnificent presence. Right. And here’s another thing, right? It’s like the most, the funniest thing to me is, I think, I think I’ve heard you say this, Before Enlightenment, chop wood carry water?

Rick Archer: It’s an old Zen saying

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, I heard it from one of your interviews,

Rick Archer: and then after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Chop wood, carry water. So in my experience is like, the same world trend is now transformed into the temple of God. Right? It’s, it’s, it’s like before, before the realisation it was a world of strife and all that after the realization, this is God’s heaven.

Rick Archer: Yeah,

Victoria Ukachukwu: it’s so the scene changes.

Rick Archer: And some people might be thinking, Well, what about Ukraine? What about Somalia? What about, you know, all these horrible things that happen?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah,

Rick Archer: there’s the well let you comment on that. I have,

Victoria Ukachukwu: you know, that’s that that’s, that’s the perennial question, right? Does God you know, apparently that Why does God allow wars? Why does you know, the Holocaust, all that, and that that bothered me for a while where I am with this now is where in there’s harmony, the presence of God implies harmony, right? Strife, and I use my experience experience as an example. I was efforting a lot in my life, before the realisation of true my true nature being after that it was it was more harmonious, there has been more harmonious and less, less strife. And because we always reference our experience, I am, I would like I want to suggest that the same applies to the world at large. In the presence of God, what were the perfect I want to call this where, where the presence of God is there is liberty. Liberty, liberty, yes, Liberty, liberty, freedom, you know, harmony. So those things are those afflictions and I’m not implying that anybody is for any group of people or God, that God is not God. God is only presence. We have to start there, everywhere at all times. But we must recognize that we must realize Is that actively engaged and realize that presence in order to, to experience, the experience, it’s practice that presents, the the effects, the nature, the the attributes, the properties of that present it, it has, we have to actively recognize and engage, you know, it’s like, I think one of Christ’s saying is use ye shall know the truth. And the truth will set you free. It didn’t say the truth will set you free. The truth, the truth exists, but you have a part in it. No, it you have to know it. That’s what I that’s so to me, it’s a it’s a similar in in response to your question, we have to acknowledge the reality, the the presence of God or God’s being as a reality of our being. And then the miracle happens, because it already exists. If God is not without God, God is not withholding peace, for example, in Ukraine, or in Russia, or in parts of Africa, where you have strife and all that this is there. It has to be activated. And how is it activated by people like you and me and everyone recognizing the omnipresence? The omnipotence of God, we cannot be believing in the we cannot be relying I should say, on physical force, to to solve our problems. And at the same time saying God is Omni potence, right, that one power. So if you have you if you have that, if you have two powers, then you’re saying God, you want to use the power of God to overcome so called evil, right? And then we set up the polarities, it was set up the polarities, you put out the fire here, it comes out here, because what we have done is established a premise where you will always need to use one power to overcome another. That’s, that’s where I That’s how I see that now it’s the people in those of us in the US are not we’re not immune from the state the challenges of war and all that right. Let me put it about No, no, no group of people are our more susceptible to, to strife and conflicts and all that. It’s really the degree to which we recognize each person recognizes the presence of, of the omnipresence of God, in that environment. And I don’t have to be in Ukraine to realize that God is present, it’s the space of Ukraine, the community, the whatever the country that God is there to. And whether we’re in there physically or not, we can we can all I activate is the best one I come up with what we can all see that as an as, as being present in for the people of Ukraine, and the people of the world. Throughout. I tell you this is this is this is the challenge because I sometimes I’m watching TV and I see all these horrendous things with cancer and all that and I see my energy going down. You know, especially you give money you feel helpless isn’t what can you do, right? But what really, what really, what I find very helpful and effective is to not to not allow the conflict, to register in consciousness. Because by by by by keeping consciousness by like I said, being in presence, allowing that intelligence to direct in I find that at least in my personal life, it it directs in harmony, whatever action is harmonious. It may be, it may or may, there’s never a perfect state of harmony, but it may be more so than it was, you know, so. To me, the difference is the conscious recognition and realisation of the presence of God at all times, everywhere. And in all situations, no matter how bad It appears because that’s how it gets transformed. Or you may not be the person who does it. But but just that coach can can, what do they say? 1010 conscious people can liberate a town. I forget how

Rick Archer: their statistics about, you know, percentages of meditators in a community and then a reduction in crime rate and all that. Yeah. And Wasn’t there a simple thing in the Bible about you know, if there are so many righteous people in this town? Yes. Or something solemn. Exactly.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Exactly. Exactly. And that’s what I was referencing is that we can all do something, right. Yeah. And here’s the thing, one of the question of, you know, this is related to this, one of the questions that came up for me is Wait, if everything is gone, if God is omnipresent, what about evil? That’s what you’re asking that God is evil of God. And one day, the answer just came in, in my contemplation and meditation is like, if you see evil, you are not seeing God. So if you see evil, your work now becomes to bring to, to to bring God bring God, you know, God, I use God, you could say, presence, awareness, whatever term works for you, to bring God into the picture. Right? And so what you have done is, so the responsibility is almost like the seeing of evil, you help we help to keep it calm. That doesn’t mean close our eyes, don’t see it or deny it. No, once you have seen it, it’s in consciousness, you also have to resolve it in consciousness. And once it’s resolved it you resolve it in consciousness through again, the conscious recognition and realization upon the presence, then, right action arises. It’s not about being passive. It’s about the right action, harmonious action. And, and reclaiming or restoring the peace, the peace of the presence of God. So that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s how I see it.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Jimi Hendrix said, when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. Yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes. Yeah, that’s what very well said. Very well said. Yeah.

Rick Archer: You know, thinking about your, your experience, as you described it, pre and post awakening, were during pre awakening, you know, you were working hard trying to figure things out, and things were not always going well, and you couldn’t figure things out. And there were probably clashes and frictions, and, and this and that. And then once that awakening happened, all of a sudden, you found yourself making the right decisions, doing more with less effort, and, you know, probably more harmonious in your relationships with people. There’s a couple of verses in the Gita one is established in being perform action. And then another one, another one says, Bing, or yoga, meaning unity consciousness is skill in action. And then there are verses about doing more with less effort and not claiming the ownership of action. Yeah. And if you’re not claiming the ownership, then kind of like cosmic intelligence does everything and you can just enjoy the ride. Yeah, so you’re, I mean, everything you described is reminiscent of that.

Victoria Ukachukwu: It’s amazing. And this is somebody with that had no background at all with into, you know,

Rick Archer: Perennial truth, you know?

Victoria Ukachukwu: and I will share something in my daughter, my younger daughter just reminded me of this the other day, she said, it was last year that I almost drowned. She’s in Michigan, where she goes to grad school, and she had gone out to Lake Michigan with our friends on one. And I was sitting I was home in here in New Jersey, and then I get a flash of insight. House, how her name is Gigi how street she doing? And I talked to her often, but I hadn’t talked to her that week. So how is Chi Chi doing? And then immediately the next thing that comes up is she is safe and secure in presence. Okay, let’s just have fun. And then I pick up a phone and I call her and she’s and then she answers she goes, Mom, I’m okay. I’m okay. Everything is okay. And I What do you mean what What’s going on? I’ll call you, I’ll call you, I’ll call you later. So I put up my idea and I said, Okay, when I went back to what I was doing two hours later, she called me. She told me that she had gone boating with some of our friends. She’s just, she’s a good swimmer. And the water seemed Ida, like, you know, still might I think Michigan lakes are notorious for that. They look, they look, deceptively, this

Rick Archer: is a big lake. So the waves Yeah,

Victoria Ukachukwu: yeah. And she jumped in. And her friends were sitting in the, and then one of them happened to look at her and she looked like she was not okay. And he said to you, okay, she goes, No, I can I keep I keep trying to swim, but I can, it just keeps pulling me away. I keep trying to get back to the so her interest, the current and then some one of them say, oh my gosh, she’s the best swimmer here. So two of them, jumped in. And then carried her, like, carry her back. And, and the minute so as soon as the brought her sounded like, when did that conversation was happening, she gave me the about and that was when I picked up on her. I know she okay. But then instead of panicking, what I did was, you know, live in a basically, because I’m here in New Jersey, the All I can do, like I say is is in consciousness, to establish her safety in the presence around her. And so she and so she didn’t know she was telling me now, then she was telling me the story. And I’m getting I’m like, Oh, my God. Unbelievable. You know? So things like that, that those kinds of communicate. You know, I can’t tell you. Was it the awareness of fact that help auditor what happened that this is a pure intelligence in action. Oh,

Rick Archer: I interviewed this guy. I forget his last name. His name was Steven something and he’s a hospital. He works at a hospital on Long Island. But anyway, when he was in college, he, some stranger offered him a ride on his new motorcycle. And so he got on the back of this motorcycle and the guy took off. He was going well over 100 miles an hour down a rain slick highway. And, you know, he really thought he was gonna die the way this guy was driving. Then, finally, and finally he came back and he got back to the dorm at like two in the morning. And he’s walking down the hallway think oh my god, I almost died. And the payphone rings on the wall. And which is unusual. And he never answered the payphone. But he since he was walking by it, he picked it up. And it was his mother, Steven, are you okay? I just woke up, and I was afraid that something was happening. So this kind of thing, you know.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. You know, Rick, thank you for sharing, that’s really, that’s really fascinating, because one of the things that I’ve also come to realize is this. We always think that miracles have to be these big dramatic happenings. But it’s the it’s the is the, quote unquote, ordinary experiences that we have. And I’ve come to realize that that’s the way it is supposed to be. Right. But we’ve, we it but we’ve, we’ve come to rely more on tools on objects than the direct link the direct communication, which you know, tools are helpful, but we have to use them in their proper order, just like the mind right, the thoughts have their place, you know, I was talking with a friend the other day, and his question was, do you So, are you saying that the mind has no place, you know, the mind has a role, but his role is not to direct its role is to implement it, it’s a tool you know, so, and when it is functioning properly, it is brilliant and brilliant. And I have to say this reminds me of my my work my work as a scientist as a chemist, I remember you know the chemistry there are so many elements right? Out of which all the various combinations and permutations that create the different object materials that we see matter, right. And, you know, science science again, is Science is exploring within the realm of the physical within the realm of what I will call the expressed, right? That Well, you know, again, it’s not, you know, we can we can, we can get into the boundaries between physicality and energy and subatomic and all of a keep, you can keep, you can keep drilling down to, you know where you are, there’s really virtually nothing, but they come together and do something that can be measured and captured with an instrument. But this realisation actually, for me, helps me to, to see science in its proper perspective, in its proper role, and which is makes it more interesting. You know, but before I say, one thing, as long as we’re using tools, invented by mind, right through the mind, it will have its limits. But the limits don’t, don’t define the limits of reality. You know, so that that’s, that’s, that’s like, oh, that’s, that’s exciting. Well, within that, within that limit, there’s a lot that can be done, you know, and once we hit the barrier, or once we’re able to overcome the limit that particular limit, then look at look at what’s happening with technology, for example, you know, so, so I just wanted to add that, that this is so amazing that it like I said, all the questions dissolve, it became, that’s just a knowing it’s like a prior to that, I would question how do people know this? Right. But it’s just when you’re attune that that based on your own capacities, and training and abilities and all that that information will come through the same channels that you would normally get them but you will be surprised at how much more you can access you know, what somebody wants said that react, you know, what we can observe? Obviously, what we can observe through the senses are very limited. It’s like taking an infinite dimension, right? And trying to squeeze it through the three dimensional.

Rick Archer: Here’s an example if the if the Mississippi River, were the word represent the spectrum of electromagnetic and electromagnetic field, then visible light would be a few centimeters somewhere around Keokuk, Missouri. Yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, that’s exactly right. Exactly. Right. You know, so, so material, says what we’re able to sense does not begin to an end, sometimes it’s not sometimes it somehow it has to be interpreted. There’s some distortion there. Right? So it’s not necessarily our are not a perfect reflection of reality. So you know, I dislike now in retrospect, I see why I was fascinated by science, because of all those questions. And now to find out that BS actually lies beyond science, right. It is, in and of itself, a great benefit of this. So and here’s the thing. I think that the funniest thing is that we are all this everybody has, is this, whether you know it or not, that that’s, that’s the great love, you know, the divine law. And it’s, they’re just waiting for the recognition of it. Yeah. But the conditioning, I think the biggest challenge is the sense of identity. That is that is just the biggest biggest obstacle, but the thing is, you can have all that you can still have all everything that you had identified with just in personal, doesn’t have to be you don’t have to own it. You know, I had this conversation with one of my friends at the meditation group we were we went to a dine after meditation. And I was sitting down and he said, Victoria, what do you mean no, no identity. How are you sitting down? I mean that as soon as somebody is sitting down in a chair, and I said, Bob, I don’t need to be a person to sit down in a chair, I could just sit in a chair that’s just sitting. Well, why do I need to have an identity to sit down? You know?

Rick Archer: Well, language is very much structured in terms of identities, you know, when you when you answered Bob, you said, Well, I can just sit in the terror, he might have said, well, who is this either it’s sitting in,

Victoria Ukachukwu: ya, I know, that, but that’s the I, that’s the personal, he’s thinking of a personal I, I’m thinking of the universal I

Rick Archer: Right

Victoria Ukachukwu: that said,

Rick Archer: Can’t you have both a personal and universal I? Wave and ocean kind of thing?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Well, that’s a really good question, Rick. We, when you can have complete total identification, and all you know, is that personal ID, right? And then then the degree of unfolding or realization, you begin to lose, I think they call it dying daily, right? releasing some of that. And it is, you know, depends on the degree of of release, right? You can release that. But if you’re asking me personally, yes, there’s, there’s there’s still some identity, but not as much as it was, it was suffocating. Yeah, previously, right. And then it’s continuing to decrease. Because then the more experience you have, the more is like, it’s actually fun, that other people can still see you as that. But you but you’re not responding that way. You know, in my, in other words, you’re not coming from that identified place? Less unless I find that I’m able to, I don’t need it. It’s actually more effective. That way, you know, and then and, you know, it’s easier with, if you’re with a community of people who, who understand that. But if you’re out in the, say, in the workplace, where not many, many people what, you know, I have this type of understanding. You know, you just keep it quiet, I just keep it quiet and perform from that space. And they respond. And sometimes they’re surprised at their own response. You know, it’s like, they’re surprised, and then they try to give you credit, they try to personalize it again. And I’m quick to say, No, it just happened. It just happened. But I’m happy to be the space of that happening. The conduit, if you will, it’s just just a, it’s just a happening, it’s just a functioning, if you will, yeah, yeah,

Rick Archer: I have this friend who’s going through a real profound spiritual awakening. And, you know, she’s having a hard time with personal pronouns, because they just seem so inappropriate to her experience of herself, you know, and she’s trying to figure out like, how to talk, because without seeming like a hypocrite, and I think I might have well, I don’t think I did, but I perhaps should have quoted, you know, Jesus and saying, render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. And there’s this concept in Advaita Vedanta, which is that they call it the Alba Harika, which means the transactional level of life. And then they have the other level, which is paramount mica, which is the true self. And, you know, it’s understood that and on the transactional level, you just behave normally, and it doesn’t invalidate or compromise your Realization. Just as let’s say, you know, you go into a pottery shop, and you wouldn’t say there’s nothing in this shot but clay, even though you’d be right, but there are pots, you know, or a jewelry shop, you wouldn’t say there’s nothing here but gold. There are no necklaces. There are no rings, there are no you know, that would be true in a way because it’s all gold, but it’s also not true because on a relative level, there are these four, you know, the gold or the clay have been formed into things

Victoria Ukachukwu: right. Right. I mean, to me, I think I empathize with your friend and her and her quandary. Wait for me. Like I said that there was a there was a distance. It was like I’m watching that. Yeah, personality. Yeah, that character it was I became a character in the same thing with the thoughts, right? They’re no longer there. My goodness, it was incredible. The thoughts has such a stranglehold for the grip. The grip. Yeah. So so that is this happen naturally and never came back to. So I so it’s okay for me you can say Victoria, I know who you’re referring to it wasn’t me. It’s not. It’s not. It’s not my truest self. That’s That’s how I feel about it. So I’m not going to whether you want to call it a E or she is okay. You just I know, I know what you’re referring to. So but yes, I can totally get that, you know. And and that is why sometimes when you see people talk about spirituality, there’s almost like semantics or it’s sometimes it can devolve into a semantics, right? Because of that very,

Rick Archer: The Adviata shuffle, like you’re sitting at lunch, and someone says, Please pass the salt. And you say who wants the salt? it gets kind of nauseating.

Victoria Ukachukwu: No? Yes, exactly. Oh, my goodness. I remember. One of those videos. I don’t remember. I saw it on YouTube. I don’t remember the

Rick Archer: Oh was it a cartoon kind of thing?

Victoria Ukachukwu: No, it was it was a teacher say. There’s nothing to do. You do not exist. Right. early on.

Rick Archer: It sounds like Tony Parsons or somebody.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you do not exist there is nobody here. Right? Nothing to do. Oh, my god. That was I mean, true. But but like you say, in the in the functional experience, right? Yeah, it becomes a little challenging for people to be able to communicate.

Rick Archer: Jeff foster made this really funny cartoon thing that you can find on YouTube. I think it’s called the Advaita shuffle. But it was based on an experience he actually had with his mother, when he was in his Neo Advaita phase, and they’re walking along through a park. And his mother says, Oh, look at the beautiful tree. And the Jeff cartoon character says, There is no tree there is no beauty and it goes on for about 15 minutes with this. In his by the end, his mother says you’re no fun anymore.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Yeah, that I that can happen, you know. But the terminologies also can be can be overwhelming, you know, like, a different terms consciousness, awareness. Presence, God, Self. Right.

Rick Archer: And it’s good to clarify what we’re using what we mean by the words, otherwise, we’re not going to communicate, you know?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Clarification is always is always a good thing.

Rick Archer: I was thinking about what you were saying earlier about how your life became so much easier, and smoother and more efficient after this awakening. And, and we’ve been talking about the state of the world, and so on with wars and famines and all those things. I think that if awakening became more universal phenomenon, then the shift in quality of life that you experienced, and the ease with which things happened, that were meant to happen, and desires are fulfilled effortlessly, and so would begin to be experienced on a societal level, you know, and then we wouldn’t have all these famines and wars and conflicts.

Victoria Ukachukwu: I agree. I totally agree. I think that I see it as a threshold thing. There’s certain threshold in terms of the elimination of consciousness, like, it looks to me, it’s really a matter of the cluttering consciousness decluttering without all the stuff that we concepts and ideas and notions about reality, you know, somebody I say, No, it’s really as simple as either you know, something, or you believe it. Right? If it’s not your direct knowing, you need to be looking at what you’re believing. Right? So that so that there’s a threshold of conscious ness or conscious awakening, however you want to describe that. We will see that shift that you know, there is a shift and energetic and look at all the stuff that has happened 2020 And all that I tell you the, the murder of George Floyd. Boy, that really shook me to the core.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it shook the whole world in a way Whoa, talk about

Victoria Ukachukwu: where it’s going. But the most amazing thing happened to watch, I couldn’t watch the whole video. But I forced myself to watch as much as I could to watch it, and just in presence, consciously watch, without judgment. Just observe what’s happening. There was easy to empathize with George Floyd, it’s very easy to have compassion within as quote unquote, as a victim. I don’t want to say quote, unquote. But what about the the officer Derek Chauvin? ferric Shama? What about him? And so in just watching something came up, it’s like, the question was, Wow, what happens to a conscious being to bring him to that point? To be able to do that,

Rick Archer: you know, what Jesus said is that forgive them father, they know not what,

Victoria Ukachukwu: not what to do. And in that instance, it was like, like, you like, there was very little light in that presence in that beam. But but it’s there. It’s just, it’s just blocked down. And that’s the only way you will be able to do it, things like that. And then he shows up at a society level, on the level of society here as racism and screaming

Rick Archer: blotted out.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. You know, and so everybody is affected.

Rick Archer: It’s interesting that you should bring this up, because just this morning, I was saying, when is this little fantasy about? What if I were there? You know, when Derek Shogun was kneeling on his neck, and I saw myself kind of going into action, say, Sir, do you realize that, you know, you’re killing this man, and you’re gonna spend the rest of your life in prison? Snap out of it? You know? It’s funny, I just wanted this little revelry.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Well, that’s that that’s, that’s interesting. Again, it goes back to conscious action. If you’re coming from presents, just, you know, the light with the full light of consciousness, right? You can spring into action. But if you’re heavily conditioned, those officers standing around, did nothing. If you see what I mean, yeah, but we’re also there to to whatever degree or or so were incapacitated,

Rick Archer: we could the guys in the ivaldi Rob Elementary School standing in the hallway for

Victoria Ukachukwu: so this, I mean, it’s like, bringing, elevating the light, or the conscious level of consciousness in the world. helps everybody.

Rick Archer: Yeah, right. Think of it as like, a forest right, where the, the soils all dry, and the trees can’t draw any nutrients. So all the trees are just going to be withered and gray. But if if the soil gets a lot of rain, and it’s nutritious soil, the trees flourish, like the rain forest, you know, societies like that, I think if if consciousness is not really oozing into collective into the basis expressed values very easily, then everything is down, it’s a pale shadow, but it could be but go ahead.

Victoria Ukachukwu: And it affects everybody. Yeah, exactly. To the perfect trader. And the person I guess, from this is done, you know,

Rick Archer: it’s there’s an there’s a field actually, and everyone contributes to it, and everyone is influenced by it. And so the more we enliven the field by awakening our own consciousness, the more others haven’t a tendency to wake up and I think that that’s happening in the world. There’s kind of a collective awakening happening.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, yes. And that also you mentioned the Ukraine war. I remember when I started and at a point if I shared the same sentiment is like how does somebody just leave their country don’t attack somebody else for what for under what pretext right. And then again, presents the this what I call the, the natural wisdom is like, what comes up for me is yes, that should not be condoned, but, but when you have good guys and bad guys, right? You’re gonna continue having good guys and bad guys. Right. So isolating. And I think some of it has been borne out the world rallied as it should to try to isolate the aggressor, right. Why do we have? There could have been another there could have been it could have been access to action that could have preempted the war and prevent suffering. Yeah. But I don’t know, yoga sutras

Rick Archer: it says avert the danger that has not yet come. Yeah. And of course, Benjamin Franklin said a stitch in time saves nine. So

Victoria Ukachukwu: that’s gone, you know, and so but But you see, access that to that action comes from what I keep calling the recognition and the realization of this presence, which is everyone can exclude anybody. Nobody is excluded from that no matter, no matter how evil or dark they seem to be, because that’s how you actually transform it, you know? And then when things like that, when it does happen, we sell a miracle, okay, it’s miracle from the perspective that we’re viewing things. But I think this miracle should be more like how life unfolds globally. Yeah.

Rick Archer: That’s my motivation for doing this.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Well, you’re doing your main lesson, I thank you for pointing for hooking me up with the, with the key people in terms of those interviews you there, because I don’t know how I, I, it was quite, it was quite selective to you know, and after, after the, the

Rick Archer: robotic, I just put them out there. It’s your intuition that that allows you to the right,

Victoria Ukachukwu: so you’re doing so great service. And now reminds me there was a time like I said, I was leading meditation, and then it just, you know, and people were saying, you know, you should start teaching. So to Windows, I’m like, I’m happy to share this as the opportunity comes. But if the teaching needs to happen, I’m not going to make a decision about it. It will happen.

Rick Archer: So we’re doing a good job today. Very,

Victoria Ukachukwu: thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Not I spoke with the spirit with them speaks.

Rick Archer: The question came in from an old friend of yours named Mandy Smith, you may not remember her but she said she met you at a Rupert retreat about eight years ago. She lives in Brevard, North Carolina. And I remember many question is, is the release of identity a conscious process? What was the most important guidance for you in this process?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. So, the that’s a good question that the release itself is is spontaneous, is spontaneous, you just you, you just realize that it has happened is not something that I can’t, at least in my experience, I can’t tell again describe any process to me, but I can I can talk about my interest and curiosity about the nature of reality of which our true nature is one right our true nature is is reality. So, in in, in, in following those interests, and you know, trying to have a more greater understanding, you make contact with with cut with with with with with this infinite presence, this infinite beam, once that contact is made, in my experience, it takes over. Yeah. Now, to what degree depends on where you are and what has gone on and, you know, so. So I would not say that there’s a, that there’s a conscious process conscious process means that, as I understand it, that I’m doing something consciously to make that happen. It happens spontaneously, but it happens within a receptive being an openness, there’s a receptivity to it. And yeah,

Rick Archer: and you made yourself more receptive. You were doing some kind of meditation that you had found and you went to a couple of Rupert retreats and yeah, you know, so there’s that old Zen saying that Enlightenment may be an accident, but spiritual practice makes you accident prone.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, no, I think so to answer the question, hi, Mandy, the the is openness and receptivity, right. If, you know, the truth resonates with you accept it. If it doesn’t, for me, if it doesn’t resonate, and again, some spiritual discernment comes in, you will not leave it alone. I, in fact, I used to be really used to question and be critical of certain viewpoints about spiritual and not anymore. Because you don’t know where each being is in their, in their own unfolding, right? If it doesn’t resonate as truth for me as the eternal truth is always is eternal, right. And once it connects, it connects with a truth within you, it resonates. And then you beat you contemplate it. And I was fond of asking questions like, what does this mean? That means something has resonated, but I did not understand what it meant. And then and then it will reveal itself in your own consciousness, and then it becomes your truth. And you can then and then then the activity of that truth in your consciousness will then lead you to what what is needed for you at that point, you know, so that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s my experience of it. It’s be open, be receptive. And and then listen, I sent for the guidance. Yeah,

Rick Archer: you know, Jesus, he said, seek and you shall find knock and the door shall be opened. When we, when we have that intention, we send out a signal to the universe, so to speak, you know, and and the signal gets answered, we start finding what we need to find.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Well, you know, that’s, that’s really interesting. You mentioned that, that quote by Jesus, yesterday, I think it was yesterday. And meditation is like, what are we seeking? You know, seek and you shall find? What did Jesus mean by that? You know, because, but he also said, The kingdom of God is within you. Yeah. So the kingdom of God is within you. What are you seeking? There’s,

Rick Archer: what is it TS Eliot poem, or he says, We, I forget how it goes exactly. But we at the end, he said, The end of all of our seeking, we will come back to the place from which we started and know it for the first time.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes, yeah. So and I answered that question is like, you know, it’s easy to think and I was, I was, I did that too, seeking, oh, my God, I need a million dollars, seek for a million dollars and you shall find right or whatever material, whatever it may be. I’ve come to understand or realize that, you know, see, sickie the kingdom of God first, right, and all that should be added, and all else should be added on to the because that kingdom of God is this is our consciousness is our being. So being is everything is complete. Since just the air, can I tell you how liberating that is? Liberating, that is the ultimate freedom. Because nothing, in other words, all the fears and you know about whatever it may be, you know, you I really have come to realize that if you’re resting, if you’re anchored in your being in that consciousness, which is the kingdom of God within you, what is there a fear?

Rick Archer: Yeah. How did you fare during the whole COVID thing? Not that it’s totally over. But, you know, some people really have a hard time because they’re, they weren’t used to social deprivation, or isolation and all that stuff. But how did it hit you?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I thought about that, that people were gonna have a hard time. But you know, once I, once I, integrated meditation, it’s no longer practice is a way of being for me. It’s almost like it’s so this is gonna sound funny. Activities distract me from meditation. You know what I mean? It’s like, that is the real expression. And in that all the activities are self organized. As in arranging what needs to be, to be done and in what, in what order. So during the covenant, I, I was fine. It’s like, we went, I teach and we went remote. And many people had a hard time with it. Because, you know, again, they isolating aspect of it. For me, it was more, it was an opportunity for more silence, more stillness, in my even in my work, you know, to be able to, to have more of that, because it can be it can be quite noisy. Yeah. So, no, I always find that plus also, I refer I was I consciously. I was consciously aware that the fear of contagion right, the fear of of infection was worse than the virus itself. I’m not speaking scientifically now. The Fear Itself, right. Made it just just degraded people’s physical ability to, to cope with it, I think, which is what the vaccine did is it just lowered the the pediatrician fear threshold, you know, and then it’s, it’s fascinating. It’s really fascinating. The chicken or the egg, right?

Rick Archer: Well, it’s not a placebo wouldn’t have had the vaccine, but it’s definitely

Victoria Ukachukwu: the vaccine that, that so I think that would have been difficult to get people to, to fear less. Without the vaccine. Yeah, pandemic panic threshold was incredible.

Rick Archer: Died. So if you’re afraid of dying, there’s there was something to fear.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes, yes. And so I, because I was remote. Most of the time, I waited. I didn’t get the vaccine until it became freely available. I know some of my colleagues were hunting advanced vaccines, right. Like, some drove distances to go find out like

Rick Archer: why people were flying to Florida.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, no, but thank you for asking. I was, and I manage a campus and we had to, when when we finally reopened my dad and I was responsible for making sure the protocols are in place, and people follow them. And if students or faculty became sick, you know, that was the that was the challenge is more of managing other people, other people’s behaviors, right? Yeah,

Rick Archer: you were talking earlier about endless spiritual development. And just last night, I read a quote from Shri Ramakrishna in which he said something like that, he said that, you know, spiritual, and there’s no end of spiritual unfoldment. And I presume he meant even after the body dies. But anyway, do you have any thoughts on that? I mean,

Victoria Ukachukwu: absolutely. That’s, you know, that’s what that’s what realization has has led me to understand is that it’s infinite. And we said, right, it’s infinite, an infinite being. So

I think that infinity itself, that there’s no end to infinity. Yeah. Right. So, so it’s from glory to glory, if you will, from from, from, you know, grow to grow just ongoing, which is a good thing. I think, actually, I see it as exciting now. Death well, as another matter altogether, life and death.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, Woody Allen said, I don’t mind dying. I just don’t want to be there when it happens. So you’re not going to be right.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Well, the question is, I think we need to be. So that’s that comes up. Is it has anybody answered? What is that? We were told? Well, first of all, some people say they remember when they were born. Yeah, most most people don’t.

Rick Archer: Or they remember before they were born so that some people

Victoria Ukachukwu: is that is that most of the people,

Rick Archer: most or not most? No, but people have like, you know, past life regression therapy. Exactly.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. So, you know, I asked that because most of the things we believe about birth, life and death is based on belief, not direct experience. Right? And I right now if, unless I know something I’m not inclined, I don’t need belief, right? Why don’t I? Why do I need belief? I don’t need belief anymore. So with so as it comes to death, I don’t want to believe the, the, the cultural mores about it and I call it cultural stories about it. Yes, the image of the book will see the body stop doing what it was doing right? I will say I have somebody who dies, the body will no longer get up or something. It degrades. But the body is a physical is a physical act unless the body we see is a physical object, right? That material. But we know the body doesn’t function by itself. Right? He puts it with we put your hand on the rest your hand on a chair somewhere, it’s gonna stay there until there’s a conscious intention to move it. So that to me, tells me that there’s something moving, directing and moving, functioning the body, that the body responds to something, right? So when the body stops responding, what happens to that agency that was directing or or, you know, setting things in motion? What happens to that? And to me, that’s the that’s what’s eternal about being that’s the eternal being. And that’s what I’ve come to realize as my true nature. You know, so, I do I do at this. I don’t want to say believe I do feel, and based on the on the experience of expansion. That that essence, that essence is part of the infinity of being and cannot die.

Rick Archer: And it’s scientifically to eschew the word, belief. I mean, I don’t think Well, I guess scientists believe things, but they don’t. They’re not satisfied with when they need to have some empirical verification and experiential verification. I remember Oprah Winfrey was interviewing Eckhart Tolle. And she was she did this little thing at some point where she gave him a couple of words and had him complete the sentence, the sentence and she said, I believe, and he said, nothing in particular.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, exactly. Why do you believe, you know, really, and experienced is, is can be subjective. Yes. Because it’s your knowing. Right? Yeah. But but but but at least you have that. A lot. You can see the mayhem in the world that is caused by beliefs.

Rick Archer: Yeah, absolutely. So Killian drover over beliefs and

Victoria Ukachukwu: yeah, it’s, but that’s sometimes you know, I’m in education, and I, you know, I see education as a very powerful tool for transformation, right. And these days, I keep contemplating. The subject matter is important, right, like you say, for the functioning and all that, but, but is should we be offering a fundamental education? And then I’m laughing because of the the censorship about textbooks and

Rick Archer: some kind of spiritual development in schools and so

Victoria Ukachukwu: well, I mean, I use the word, the phrase spiritual development by just just a basic understanding of what we mean, when we say, I am only who you are your nature, your attendance, nobody’s going to tell you who you are, you will come to it, but just to point people in that direction from the beginning, you know, and then before we start The overlay with all these specialized fields and all that, because you see what’s happening somebody like me, I go get a PhD in chemistry and have to come back to that fundamental right? To get it because we accept what has been told us about the nature of, of human beings and life and world and all that. And then takes us so far until you hit a wall in your own particular path. And then the question is, why isn’t it’s working supposed to work? I said, it’s support the hero, and, you know, so somehow integrating that, but that’s, uh, that’s that I would love to, to find a way to do something like

Rick Archer: that. Yeah, I mean, even in psychology classes, you’d think that this could be brought in without stepping on anybody’s belief systems. And there are some programs, I was actually the reason I was in New Jersey for six months one time was that they were introducing Transcendental Meditation into the public schools. And it was a big legal uproar about it, because the Christians felt like they were sneaking Hinduism in a Trojan horse, you know. And they ended up having to end the program. But there’s some good programs around the country where mindfulness and other practices are, are taught to the kids, they usually gets very great results.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. Yes. And the other thing, too, yeah, I think you started out in transcendence. You taught it right.

Rick Archer: I did for about 25 years,

Victoria Ukachukwu: five years. Okay. You know, sometimes I also think that you can meditate for a million years as a separate identity. Yeah, it’s not gonna do anything for you much. Many might get some superficial. I don’t know, maybe not support some temporary.

Rick Archer: Well, while it thins the veil is, like I said earlier with the spiritual practice makes you accident prone. If, if the body is full of stress and tension and impurities, and the mind and body, it’s theoretically possible that awakening had happened, but the probability is less than if you clear the clutter out. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why Buddha, various other teachers have always recommended it.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, no, less than it can’t hurt.

Rick Archer: I’ll do it. You know, imagine that the meditation you did prior to your awakening led to it, you know, it was it wasn’t it wasn’t a meditation awakened you, but it set the stage to some extent,

Victoria Ukachukwu: apps. I agree with that. But also, no one thing is, in I remember sitting, I remember reading, foster reading requests books for perspires Bob’s going to his retreat, and he’s saying, Oh, my God, my first retreat with him the three I was I was like, challenging him. I don’t think it was decided as a hard time but from my perspective, I was answering them it was hard How do you know this? Right in it now I can’t it wasn’t it wasn’t he the the man that I see you know, is drawing from a you know, an intelligent presence but I think that I had that curiosity to know where what is the source of this knowledge? Yeah. You know, that’s where when I was going for my Franklin so I don’t have you been looking for a teacher? I think I told you that I I don’t I’m not a follower. I’ve never been but I but I can I can take what I need. I remember 2000 I forget when it might have been 13 or so. I remember when she but I went there was some some ashram in New York and it goes to a shopping center that I go to so I decided I will just go there there was some guru coming from India and I didn’t know and a friend said oh, if you’re up there just go up there this weekend. So I did now what I’ll never forget it amuses me to this day. I went there and yeah, here it is. Definitely was good presence right like he could feel and then he there was this process you come in and people will go up and Jenny flag and find out He gets the feed off of that. So that was after the initial opening. And then there was a segment where he allowed people to come up and the master and all that cash is so foreign to me. I was the only one who did not go on. And everybody was looking at me like, Why is she here? Don’t say that as. But then they came to the question and answer segment and I raised my hand and I say to him, I asked him, I said it was was bothering me a lot. I said, Do you think that the master students relationship encourages?

Rick Archer: dependency?

Victoria Ukachukwu: dependency? And toileting? Right. Here’s his answer. blow me away. He said, Yes, it does. But when the student gets the teaching, that drops away. Yeah.

Rick Archer: You know, yeah. You know, you were saying earlier about how there are many different teachings and teachers and you don’t resonate with a lot of them, but other people may. And, you know, so I think that’s legitimate. Yeah. I mean, you know, kittens depend on the mother cat. Yes. Right. And but at certain point, the mother cat starts hissing at them when? A certain age and to make them leave. Yeah.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. Again, take what you need. That’s what it comes down to. And, and it may be like you said, for a period of time, right, that that was needed and, and then people move on, but I, you know, I just, I guess I’ve just been an independent strip.

Rick Archer: There’s a question that came in from Adisa, doors in Palmdale, California. She said, I get very excited whenever I see guests that have an African name like I do. I appreciate the representation. Question is, how do we love our enemies during adversity? I live in America, and the patience it takes to constantly educate people about social issues gets exhausting, especially since being different affects every aspect of my life. I love myself and I wish to love to better love others.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Great question and one of those, you know, tough things to, to practice, right? With, you know, hello, I deserve the I’m going to I’m going to reference a better quote in the Bible, forgive them for they know not what they do. Right? In terms of forgiving enemies. But before we get there, I want to I want to, I want to speak to the premise. Once we have established an enemy, it becomes very difficult, makes it more difficult to forgive. Because what that means is that we’re saying that this person, whoever it is, we have we’ve put them in their box, whatever box that maybe in order to be able to forgive, we have to see. You know, in normal terms, we’ll have to see, we have to acknowledge, not even see, acknowledge the humanity of the person, even if we don’t agree with we don’t necessarily accept what they’re doing. So for me, that’s always the premise. I got the Godfather, not accepting the humanity recognizing that that being that we call a person is God’s being and if you recognize that right there now you are you what you it becomes easier for you to it becomes easier to write to also recognize that it’s an it’s it’s an error, forgive them for they know not what they do means that they no, no what they do, they’re acting in error. It doesn’t excuse it. It doesn’t mean we should we should do nothing about what but what it does is it frees you you don’t it frees you from the shackles of upset hatred, you name it, the negative emotions that come up with that and I know what I’m talking about because I’ve experienced it. I’ve experienced I have had that feeling before this realisation becomes easier when I start from the premise that that being is also God’s infinite being, you know, that being would not be you without the grace of God’s infinite being, and from that premise, then then again, the right action, whatever you need to do, will come and it will be more effective and addressing or, or in addressing the security Nasha. One example, and I’ll talk about the George Floyd again. Oh, I mean, it was it was it that they shook me to the core. And I was just, again, back to how is this possible? This is, you know, what, what can I do about this, and then it took it and meditation and sitting. And that’s where the recognition of the humanity of the of the person doing it, it became easier to forgive, because there’s just so much darkness there and then send some light and see see, see that you might see see that being the pure Being of that person is not acting from that POB is acting from a place of separation from his or her true nature. But the next thing that happens surprise me, well, I don’t get surprised anymore. But it was I was was, was pleasant, because you never know what we have that action will come up. I was at a leadership meeting for the school that I work. And we were talking about plants. But this time, I think it was this happened in May. So around July, August, we had this leadership retreat, to plan for the upcoming semester, the fall, as we do every year. And they were talking about, you know, the usual things, and a strategic plan admission and all the stuff we usually talk about. And I’m sitting there feeling incredibly frustrated. Now, I did not know why this was a three hour meeting. So I sat there and did not participate. But a lot was going on within me. Eventually, they the person facilitating this was the chief executive of the institution asked for Did anybody have questions before we conclude, we’re now two and a half hours into the meeting. And I just my hand shoots up. I have not said a word I. And I get up and I said, Can we have a moment of silence? For George Floyd? You have to understand how out of I mean, it came out of out of the blue. And then then at that point, I realized why I’ve been so restless and felt like how can we just act like nothing happened? At least as far as I was aware, there was no response. And it was it was well received, had a minute of silence. I tell you silence is powerful. After that minute of silence, it opened up a whole discussion about that. And what the institution can do, how can we? How can we help our students process it? Okay. And I thought that was the end of the next meeting a month later, I was not asked to talk about inclusion in equity, and it’s things that, you know, lead to those kinds of behavior to lead that discussion. And I’m gonna make it make a long story short, it led to all kinds of policy ramifications. Right. But I pull up that example to show that we’re not talking about a passive power here. But we have to, we have to tune in tune in to align with it, to allow that power to express through us. And when it expresses, then you have you address this issue from a place of power, not from a place of anger, or weakness or victimhood, right. And then your own particular situation and talents and expertise will then be put to use in the opportunity that you have to address it. You know, so that’s what I would offer is that it’s it’s you don’t deny anything, you don’t bury your head in the sand you recognize you see it, because in that scene, you have to see it without the negative thing you know that the negative emotions that come up need to be released and you have to dissolve in consciousness? What? How you’re role in that whole process in that whole experience?

Rick Archer: That’s great. You know, we might say that the best way to eliminate an enemy is to make him your friend. And a decent question and your answer reminded me of a story I heard on NPR about five years ago. I just looked it up. I’ll read you the headline and the first two paragraphs, he said, It’s entitled how one man convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan members to give up their robes. Darrell Davis is a blues musician, but he also has what some might call an interesting hobby. For the past 30 years Davis, a black man has spent time befriending members of the Ku Klux Klan. He says once the friendship blossoms the Klansmen realized that their hate may be misguided. Since Davis started talking with these members, he says, 200 Klansmen have given up their robes. When that happens, Davis collects the ropes and keeps them in his home, as a reminder of the dent he has made in racism by simply sitting down and having dinner with people.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes,

Rick Archer: pretty cool.

Victoria Ukachukwu: That’s cool. That’s a that’s cool. That’s a really good example. And you know, it may seem like oh, 200 people a big deal. Ah,

Rick Archer: that’s a big dent.

Victoria Ukachukwu: That’s a big dent,

Rick Archer: Yeah, and they could ripple out to others, you know?

Victoria Ukachukwu: but the more importantly to our desire, right? Once you have acted from this place of compassion, meaning forgiving, first of all, you know, don’t define anybody as an enemy. Number one, recognize the humanity, if you will, or the being Ness that we are all given in layman’s language, tell us we’re all children of God, if that resonates with you use that, use that literally. And then from that, from that position, then then act, right, whatever you have opportunity to do, because then you will feel you will be at peace. You know, sometimes it’s like this feeling of helplessness, that or what can we do? Or, you know, the, you know, feel part of a group that is oppressed? I think we can help change that, by not feeling oppressed ourselves, that’s the first step and then move into a place of power, not personal power. That’s the power, the power of God within you. And use that apply that good to good.

Rick Archer: A question came in from Greg QAnon. In Florida, he said, I had never heard of Joel, Joel Goldsmith. What was it about Goldsmith that personally or impersonally? Enhance your awareness?

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yes, thank you for that. It’s he actually, that’s a really good question. Remember, I talked about I and II, I think you mentioned it, and I and then we talked about a little bit about the I, I and My Father are one, right? That’s important. And I’m not sure the the question is familiar with that. That’s a statement attributed to Jesus Christ. And and it was thought that it meant Jesus and God are one right, therefore Jesus is special. But in the same Bible, Jesus talked to us about we’re all sons of God, well, children of God. So back to your question, what Joel helped me to see when reading his books, clearly was the, the distinction of the two eyes what he calls the two eyes, the universal eye, which is the eye of God, the eye of the universal eye, and it personal I like when when I say, I am talking to Rick, you know, previously may mean to me that I Victoria, here, I’m talking to Rick as a person. But in the clarification, would juggles me and helped me to get incredible clarity about is this really just that I have the infinite be? That I’m not a separate being from that, but my being is sort of sourced in in that infinite being right. So that i is misappropriated by an identity that thinks it has its own separate be so, so so that this so that personal I, for me, I remember when I say, Oh, I does not exist, that personal ID does not exist. But if we believe in that, then it’s real for us. And that’s and that’s the, the ego the false sense of identity, that clouds the true nature. So, so that distinction between the universal eye the Eye of God, the eye of Jesus eye, the eye, it does not refer to a man named Jesus. The eye is, is when it’s almost like when the consciousness of being announces its presence, I, but there’s a label given to it, Victoria or Rick or Joel or Rick or Joel, then then then you have created a duality. One is false and not real. But it can cause havoc, cause it can cause a lot of grief. Because you think it’s real, and you start acting on that, only to find out that it’s, there’s only so much you can do with that. But the turn infinite AI is a true I have, in fact is not even necessary, but too rare to use the AI but to realize in communication, that that I was referring to, is actually a reference to to be the source of pain. That’s that distinction came clear, very clear in religious walls. And so he talks about conscious realization of the presence of God, I is God, I in the midst of me, is God. Not Victoria.

Rick Archer: If you do a Google search for Joel Goldsmith, his website comes up number one or website about and I think it’s called the infinite way. And also, if you search on YouTube, I think a lot of his old talks are on there, and you can listen to it directly 1964 or something, but a lot of his stuff is online.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah. And I’m amazed that actually what amazes me about him about his boxes are that his writings I should say, how so? Current, you know, because truth is eternal, you know? Yeah, he he just, he just couches it in religious language, but, and he was I understand that he was a mystic healer, too. In his time.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I’ve always heard good things about him. Okay, well, we’ve probably been going just about long enough. This is a lot of fun. So yeah, anything you feel like you would like us to have talked about that? We haven’t?

Victoria Ukachukwu: No, I don’t think I think we’ve really covered a lot of ground today. It just, you know, just an I know that people listen to these aspects, to your to your interviews, at least I did for you know, insights and helpful hints and all that. So in that, in that vein, I would just encourage people to if you if you find yourself questioning, inquiring, seeking, as they say, to just to just have a receptive consciousness, right. Knowing if you will be to be open. And then trust, trust that trust your intuition, trust your insights, trust that intelligence, because it’s there with you. Like I said, we just have to release it, recognize it, and thereby release its its expression through us. And it will guide you in I remember, Krishna Murthy. There was something I saw when one of those clips little clips like five minutes of his talks, he said to people think he used to have big meetings, he said to them, if you would just be quiet. And listen, it will reveal itself to you. I had no idea what he was talking then. But now this is this infinite intelligence is within each one. It’s just that developing the capacity by cloud play, clearing up the clutter, still being quiet, quiet, stillness, quietness, that call it meditation, call it whatever you want to call it. But start with that final minutes and just listen and see what is received and it will guide you. You know, that’s what I want to just offer and say thank you, Rick, for for this opportunity.

Rick Archer: You’re welcome. As even been a really good guest. I’ve really enjoyed this. And I just want to add because we had that discussion about meditation earlier that as I understand it, and have practice it the whole purpose of it is to Allow the agitated mind to be cut to D Excite, you know, just settle down to a state of least excitation, you could say. And then this, in fact that the Yoga Sutras say that very thing they say your yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind, then it says basically, your true nature is revealed or the sea or rests in the self. So, it’s just a matter of calming down the waves of the you know, how, like a choppy pond isn’t going to reflect the sunlight very well. But if the, if the part of the water is completely like, a sheet of glass, the sun can just shine off it so brightly that It’s blinding, you know, just so it’s kind of like that with with the way the self can reflect or not reflect in a settled nervous system or an agitated nervous system.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah, and then again, just to highlight that, that’s, I’m glad you made that point, just to highlight it is to know that it is already within you. So it’s there. And starting with that, knowing that confident acceptance, it can begin to unfold. For you,

Rick Archer: that’s really that’s so important to you know, I mean, it’s I’ve often used this analogy, it’s like we’ve, in a way, it’s like many people are like beggars on the street. And yet who have actually won the lottery. Yeah, but they, they didn’t even get the lottery ticket is in a sock drawer, something they’ve forgotten, that’s there. So they’ll have they have this tremendous wealth, but they don’t realize so we have this wealth within us of wisdom and joy and peace.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Oh, yeah. That, you know, I think in this day of Acts, experts on everything, right, there’s a tendency to look to others for the knowledge forgotten, that’s, that has its place. If, for me, I was just say that. If you are led to person to a teacher, yes, go like I was right. But you start with you have to trust yourself, you have to, to accept its acceptance, not believe just accept that it’s already within you. And that you can that and then you can access it. And then you may find a book falling from a shelf while you’re in a book store, you know, and say here, this is what you need, or somebody will just give you something, you know, but it starts with the you have to open it up. What is it? Open up? Open up? Five, create an opening for the imprisoned splendor to escape. Right? But then who said that?

Rick Archer: Sounds like Rumi or somebody. And you know, I mean, you found a good teacher and Rupert didn’t sit up there and say I am Rupert the great coming to kiss my feet. Yeah. He basically said, it’s within you.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Oh, he was great. I remember. Oh, so glad. You know, a lot of people come we felt that he was so intellectual.

Rick Archer: He’s kind of intellectual. His voice is so soothing. Whenever I listen to him at the science and non duality conference, I would fall asleep because I’d be tired from the pace of the conference. And he would just ahhh. Settle me down.

Victoria Ukachukwu: That work perfectly for me, I will tell you because I like I like intellectual rigor. But it was what really, really resonated with me was we were in one of our retreat where I had this experience. Stuff. Somebody asked him a question about how do you what can we see what you see, like, how can we see, you know, a robot said, you know, I see the same things. You see. I am no special person. I’m just like you. It but I’ve just, I’ve just come to that, but I the differences that I see. I see. I see things from my true nature. And you can too, you know, perfect. Yeah. And that that was that was great.

Rick Archer: Good. All right. Well, that’s a good note to end on. You can too.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Yeah.

Rick Archer: Great. Well, thanks so much. Victoria was really, really fun. And let’s stay in touch.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Okay. Thank you Rick. Appreciate it.

Rick Archer: Thanks for listening and watching folks. Next couple of interesting next couple of interviews are going to be interesting next week. It’s Bernard Carr, who’s a cosmologist who studied under Stephen Hawking, and he’s an expert on the fine tuning principle, which is sometimes called the anthropic principle, which is, how is it the universe even came to be and came to support intelligent life who could actually think about the universe, as opposed to just being a random jumble of nothing. So we’re gonna talk about that. And the following week. I have what’s his name? Thinking Allowed, New Thinking Allowed. And anyway, Irere will get his name, but he’s had this interview show for longer than I have. And Jeffrey Mishlove, Jeffrey Mishlove. And I think both conversations are going to really be fascinating. So, come to the website, there’s an upcoming interviews page, you can set a reminder in your calendar to be notified of the live ones if you’d like to watch them live and send in questions. And there’s an email address signup thing, if you’d like to be notified whenever a new one is posted, so that you can go and watch it. And of course, hey, it looks like this year, we’re actually going to reach 100,000 subscribers on YouTube, which is kind of cool. So if you haven’t subscribed to the YouTube channel yet, and you feel like doing that, just hit the subscribe button. And when you hit the subscribe button, a little bell pops up. If you also click on the bell, then YouTube notifies you for sure whenever a new interview is posted. So thanks for listening and watching. Thanks again, Victoria. We’ll see you for the next one.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Thanks to Irene and your team.

Rick Archer: Yes. Thanks to Irene and our team she says. Couldn’t do it without ’em.

Victoria Ukachukwu: Okay, bye bye.

Rick Archer: Bye bye.