Thomas Beck & Janet Colli Transcript

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Thomas Beck & Janet Colli Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually Awakening people. There have been about 203 170 of them now. So if this is new to you go to the past interviews menu on batgap.com. And you’ll see all the previous ones archived and categorized in various ways. Today’s guests are Thomas Beck and Janet Kohli. I’ll just read their bios for the sake of those who may not have read them online. Thomas Beck PhD has helped people for 25 years to integrate transformational experience a radical restructuring of the psyche, a higher level of functioning as a result of his own neurophysiological restructuring his meditation practice and interactions with an otherworldly being. When he calls cosmic mother. Thomas is now helping people heal from a wide range of physical illnesses. He believes we all have the ability to heal and to spiritually awakened through the unconditional love of the Almighty spirit. Janet Elizabeth Coley PhD is a psychotherapist in the Pacific Northwest, specializing in integrating trauma with spiritual awakening. with expertise in both clinical and transpersonal psychology. She bridges psychology with the extraordinary and the mystical. She presents at the professional conferences of the American Center for the integration of spiritually transformative experiences catalyzed by a spiritually transformative experience herself SNS tea during cancer treatment, she now provides psycho spiritual support for a full range of processes, including for those who have been psychiatrically hospitalized during STS. She facilitates spiritual emergence to Seattle, a consultation service integrating psycho spiritual, physiological and community support. Janet lives on Whidbey Island and swims with wild dolphins in Hawaii. There are three things I think that we’re going to be talking about in this interview, all of which I find interesting, and hopefully the audience will to one is thing I alluded to trauma as an impetus to spiritual unfolding. Another is subtle beings, which I’ve covered, and we’ve covered in numerous in quite a few other interviews and alluded to. And a third is ETS or extraterrestrials and the role they may play in an individual or collective spiritual awakening. And that’s something we haven’t really covered on this show, but something that I’ve been interested in since about 1980, and had been meaning to cover. And obviously, that, well, on both of those points, the subtle beings and the ETS, I’d say, people fall into several categories there. There are people who don’t believe in them whatsoever. There are people who feel especially with subtle beings, that they’re just sort of an imaginary thing. And ET is also that they’re imagining anything, imagine everything that people have dreamed up. There are people who feel that, okay, they’re real, but they have no relevance to true spiritual aspirants, they we should ignore them and not get hung up in that kind of woowoo stuff. And there are those who feel that they are relevant, they’re real and relevant. So whatever category you may happen to fall into, we’re not going to spend a lot of time well, we’ll take any questions people send in during the live feed, but we’re not gonna spend a lot of time with trying to dispel the most obvious and common skeptical questions because we could spend the whole interview doing that. So there’ll be a certain presumption of the, you know, the legitimacy of these things. And we’ll kind of explore from there, which is kind of what this show does anyway, in a sense, I leapfrog a lot of stuff that others would, you know, dwell on at great length. And I just take those things for granted and we move on. So thank you, Thomas. And Janet. It’s great to be with you. I really enjoyed reading. Oh, pretty, pretty lot of all three of your books that you said, Oh, wonderful. Yeah, for having us. So among these three categories, which thing would you like to talk about first? Good question. Is there a logical step

Janet Colli: Yeah, I think there is I’m just I’m just loathe to begin. And that’s all. But trauma is the most grounded thing. And so I think before we take off into the nether realms, we might as well begin with something very embodied trauma. And that’s pretty much the way we both came in. And, and so, in that respect, I think it’s really important. It happened, you know, and it’s happening. It happens a lot in this collective in this culture. And it happens to be one of the primary ways that people’s I know what can I say ego at consciousness gets split, open, gets dissociated, gets fractured, and therefore, it’s got to be a primary way that we can evolve and transcend. Okay, enter into these higher states of consciousness. Yeah,

Rick Archer: I’m sure you give us examples. But I do have friends who have gone through fairly traumatic experiences, like the the death of a sibling or Yeah, serious health crisis or something. And it is it sort of kickstarted them into shifted them into a different and higher state of consciousness.

Janet Colli: Yeah, and that’s exactly what you know what we work with. And I think it can’t be overstated. I’ve got a wonderful quote from Jeffrey Crapo, professor of religious studies at Rice University show. Oh, wonderful. Okay, extreme illness, car wreck, and sexual abuse are particularly effective and do the series of the mystical. So that about says it all. You know, and so I generally begin with that, sometimes I tell my own story. And how that catapulted me into the work we do today. So to

Rick Archer: do that, so your your own story was cancer?

Janet Colli: Yes, yes. Yeah. And I must say, putting it all together has taken all of my life, right. Even though it seems like the first part, it seems like another life. It was. I was diagnosed at 30 with cancer, but it came right out of my childhood. My father was bipolar. And my mother was fairly fractured, I’ll say, and so I had a myself a traumatic hospitalization for food poisoning at around three. And so that that catapulted me into western medicine. My father was an MD, in fact, as well, and so so you’ve got a healthy dose of trying to work with an extreme state bipolar. And he was trying to manage that himself. And so growing up with that was both wonderful and awful. So when I was hospitalized, I then developed How can I say, it was very difficult for me to absorb food. And so my, I ended up my growth was stunted. And I was not very healthy for the first part of my life. and Western medicine had basically failed me. And so when my father during an episode, later, I was in my late 20s, he was having an episode and was fairly manic. And we decided that he would, for the first time in his life be hospitalized psychiatrically? I mean, this is a psychiatrist, and doctors don’t in this culture, they make very poor patients, right. So he was hospitalized, and that ended up in a tragedy. He died in the hospital. And so I haven’t been helpful in making that decision, then took that on and felt very guilty about it, which led directly to my own cancer. So here I am at 30 with cancer, which was treatable with Western medicine, but there was no way I could trust it. So if you consider that my ego had been formed very early on, out of fear of the medical in that hospitalization early on And here I was expected to do what do chemotherapy and radiation. So I’ll tuck in there. And that story, I also had an eating disorder as a result, because I couldn’t absorb food and I, and it just did not feel good to eat. So in the process of healing that now I have a diagnosis of cancer, and I’m supposed to do chemotherapy and radiation, which I absolutely could not do. I said, that’s going to kill me. And I refuse to do it. So I spent three years trying to initiate a mystical experience, and a spontaneous remission. And that, of course, can’t work if you’re not in a place of surrender for it. And so, I had a big no. And wouldn’t it so after three years, I was dying. So when I was dying, I had a dream. And the dream was of dolphins. And the dream pretty much saved my life. So the dream initiated my ability, my trust my faith, to move forward and do the the thing that I absolutely could not do. The thing I was most afraid to do was chemotherapy and radiation. So I was forced pretty much by creation to confront who I thought I was, and how my conceptual reality had been put together up to that point. Does that make sense? Yeah. Brah. So I did the chemotherapy and radiation I spiritualized Western medicine, so I had to bring east and west together in my body transmute what I firmly believe was poison, right. And I entered into a whole nother level of life. So for me, it was a mystical, spiritually transformative experience, as they say, now, that lasted for a number of months integrated. And then I was basically remade, reformulated. And so and so I knew that the trauma trauma was a doorway, a transformational doorway. And, and I wanted to help other people,

Thomas Beck: I would just add to it. So Janet’s illness was very curable form of cancer, and she went for a long period of time, not undergoing traditional therapy for it, which was scary in its way, you know, because all you have to do is do do the chemo, which was, relatively speaking, not the worst of, you know, that type of treatment. So, you know, I’m in the background, watching all this and thinking, holy smokes, you know, let’s like, move forward with it.

Janet Colli: But he, you know, was powerless, of course, and and had I’ve been forced to do it in a, how can I say, Wow, a negative way? I it never would have, it never would have worked. When I said yes. to it. It was a transformation. So, yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah, I had friends who died messing around with natural cures and stuff like that, when chemo probably would have saved them. You know, it’s tough. Sometimes you really have to just do it. And maybe, you know, in some advanced civilization, there’ll be some Star Trek like thing where they just zap you with a little light beam, and you’re all healed, but we ain’t there yet. So I mean, I’m just saying this, sometimes the topic of suicide comes up. And I kind of make statements about, you know, because we have a large audience, and people actually have said that this show has brought them back from that brink. And maybe it’ll bring them back from the cancer brain to just this little comment here.

Janet Colli: Well, it’s every case is individual. But for me, and this was really hard to explain. For a long time, chemo and radiation happened to me my transformational door. Yeah, so for somebody else, it can be something entirely different. But that dream of dolphins is actually was the impetus to enable me to trust and so I really, so I have that connection very deeply inside of me with them.

Rick Archer: Yeah, um, an obvious question would be, you guys are both scientists. Have there been any studies showing that you know, large, large traumatized populations have large the survivors of those situations have large percentages of spiritual awakenings like the Holocaust or Rwanda genocide or different things like that or what’s going on now? In Syria, you know, I mean, we’re going to see a few years from now, if that situation settles down that there’s this blossoming of spiritual awakening to in that trial, wow population.

Janet Colli: Now I can say, you know, two things. First of all, it’s with assistance or with some kind of support, generally that these things can be can blossom, or turn that corner into transformation. And that’s why we support we want to support people trauma in and of itself is not enlightening. No, but with support, I think we all have built into our DNA, that the the transformational process or potential as Stanislav Grof, says, Every human being has the potential for mystical experience. So so we have that potential, whether or not we can, you know, whether or not that becomes manifest, then that’s what we’re here, you know, that’s what we try. And every every helper tries to do tries to help with that process. As far as research, I can say that can brains research, you know, he’s the paradigmatic near death IQ researcher. And he did some really interesting research, I don’t know about anything more current and there should be. But years ago, he did a study called the Omega project. And one of the things and he looked at people that had had either a near death experience, or some kind of UFO encounter, and that could be a close encounter or just a UFO sighting. And what he found was that there was a statistically relevant increase in the trauma that they had experienced in early childhood. So he did an inventory that included the early childhood experiences, and there were many added, of course, control groups. And when He compared them, there was a higher incidence of trauma. And so what we can say is that it can definitely set you up for, for experiences that are can be seen as subtle realm or spiritual. It can definitely set you up through the capacity to dissociate

Rick Archer: that Leonard Cohen had some line about the cracks being how the light gets in,

Janet Colli: remember, yes, yes, yes. I’ve got that on my website. It’s perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Forget your perfect offering. Right? Is except the cracks, the cracks or how the light? Okay, I can’t rhyme it like he did. But that’s how the light gets in. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: I know, people who, you know, I would consider highly enlightened who had really nice childhoods real smooth, and Oh, yeah. And you know, Adi Shanti, for instance, great parents, everything went nicely. Although he did have some major breakdowns in his 20s, when not mental breakdowns, but physical breakdowns where he did he was stuck in bed for six months. And, and he was a competitive bicycle racer, and he just wanted to get out and do that. But when he tried to do that, he would just relapse and be back in bed for months. And eventually, he got the message and had to, had to, and it was like something was trying to shift him into a different mode of life and something was trying to re realign his physiology for a different role than being a professional bicycle racer.

Janet Colli: Yeah, perfect. Case in point, yes, we get remade, we get undone. We become undone our you know, egoic nature gets fractured by any number of things. And and the more we realize that and can’t Well, the training I did was like, Oh, you have a problem. Congratulations. Congratulations, because that could just be your the biggest doorway, you know, to enlightenment.

Rick Archer: Yeah, Thomas, did you want to add anything?

Thomas Beck: Well, you know, my own experience as a, as a child, I experienced sexual trauma. And as a teenager, I think directly related to that. I went through a period of about three years where I experienced extreme obsessive compulsive disorder. And I in those days, not much was known about it. And there was no there were no medications for it. And there really was no quiet no understanding what actually happens in the brain, which now is something that you know, researchers understand. But I more recently in my life, I have used the remnants, let’s call it of the of the OCD as the doorway into some really quite extraordinary experiences. And so, you know, the sort of trauma to to transformation route has been my path and I’m still on that path. And, you know, maybe maybe At some point here, we can talk about the whole subject of healing that evolves oftentimes with these transformative experiences. Because that’s something that’s happening quite rapidly now with me and has for about the last two years. So yeah, I would like

Janet Colli: to say about OCD in particular, if you if you ever Oh, you’ve had Stanislav Grof, on your program, as well, yes. And when I hear him speak, of course, the thing that fascinates him seems to fascinate him the most is OCD. And his experiences with people with that, during LSD psychotherapy. And so that’s why it’s been such a profound doorway for for Tom, is when you go into the states, and then if you’re, you know, just the, say, the, well, the states of obsession or revulsion, right, if you can, if you focus on that, and then because you have a higher order, or Tom, at this point, he’s a long term meditator, his brain functioning has expanded right? Beyond that, and so. So going from that, that place in the brain where that experience is, functions, and they know that because the brain scans now, and then having that expansion take place, again and again, has been profoundly transformative. And this is something that you would not have believed possible. So I so anyway, so I’ve been meaning to write Stan Grof and say, Hey, this is where some of your work has actually led, you know, in a very grounded way. And so we’re, we’re living it.

Rick Archer: I sometimes joke that OCD is my friend, because it’s made me meditate regularly for 48 years. Okay,

Janet Colli: you know, it can it can work, it can work in in some positive ways to

Rick Archer: walk into school when I was a kid not stepping on the cracks, because it was gonna break my mother’s back, you know, that’s,

Janet Colli: you see, this has a has a way of really the brains way of, then the D compensation or the compensation from that can be enormous. I say, just a Tesla. Tesla had OCD, as you might know, I just

Rick Archer: saw a documentary about him the other night on, on PBS or whatever. Yeah. Profound. It was like everything had to be in multiples of three. If he stayed in the hotel room, it had to be divisible by three, and he would walk around a building three times before going into it and stuff like that.

Thomas Beck: Yeah. So he’s like, 12, napkins, you know, like to embroider napkins, you know, the piles, that sort of thing. So yeah, he was pretty deep into this.

Janet Colli: So it can absolutely. So when you work with the brain, when you work with these states, that it can be the we call it a portal, it can be a portal to expansion, that contraction and expansion, which is at the heart of the universe actually happens within our brain, when you pass through that transformational door, whether it’s cancer, OCD, or sexual trauma. Okay.

Rick Archer: I would like to think that, you know, we have possibly the option if we believe that we have free will, of getting the message without having to be whacked over the head. You know, in other words, you know, we, we don’t necessarily have to go through extreme trauma in order to have a spiritual awakening, if we well, yeah, we’ve had the inspiration, go for it and consider yourself fortunate that you don’t have to.

Janet Colli: Yeah, but how else are you going to crack that? I mean, this I mean, this lightly it because it’s not in our business to go around cracking the ego structure, but that is essentially what needs to be done. That is the crack that lets the light ends and so that egoic structure, whether it’s through long term meditation, the help of a guru, right, or other worldly beings, something has to be something has to, there has to be some intrusion. So yeah, I remember

Rick Archer: a friend, you know, John Gray, the Mars Venus guy. He’s an old friend of mine, and he used to be Marsha, Mahesh Yogi, his personal secretary, and I remember when he when he was ready to stop doing that, and marshy was trying to choose a new one. John recommended a friend of his and marshy said, he said, I’d have to crack through that hardshell you know, he wanted somebody whose shell was already cracked or thin or something. He didn’t have to do the work on this guy. So We can fit our own shell, I would say yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janet Colli: Yes. This crab is actually the sign for cancer, right? That my shell is my, one of my first teachers, Richard moss said, you know, he said I was a tough nut to crack. Yeah. And I was, I had to come very close to death.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So I guess the point I’m trying to make here is that the more we can take, take the initiative ourselves to thin our shell, the less God or nature or whatever is going to have to clobber us. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully.

Thomas Beck: I mean, years ago, 2025 years ago, I was a really a beginner, you know, I had beginner’s mind, as they call it about meditation. And then through some people that we met, we hung out with some what we considered very enlightened people at the time. And I began meditating. And I really, really liked it. So I would get up at 3am. and meditate for three hours, day after day after day. And I could feel my nervous system shifting, like from week to week. And it actually became too much at one point that I had to back off. But in the long term, this led to like in the last 10 years, that I read about, in my book, a number of very expansive, incredible experiences that just happened spontaneously. And I began to think after Well, gee, is there some way that I can actually facilitate these things happening here. And that led me to find a woman here on the on the island north of Seattle, who’s a young Korean psychotherapist. I didn’t know it at the time, but we have a much deeper connection than than I ever imagined. But at one point, I said, you know, I need to, like bite the bullet and, and look at the trauma that I experienced as a kid much more deeply. And I’m ready to do that now. And I did. And as a result, for a period of about 18 months, every single time that we met, I would have a very expensive, incredibly intense experience that lasted for 60 to 90 minutes. And eventually, the the energetics of those sessions, focus more and more in my arms and hands, as opposed to a whole body experience. And then, you know, probably in the last year and a half or so I became aware that I can actually help people to reduce their symptoms from some pretty serious illnesses. And so that sort of brings us up to the moment, you know, my, I meditate six to 10 hours a week right now. And that seems to be for me. I mean, because I’ve done so much meditation, it seems like, it’s easy, it’s nothing, you know, I get that. And, you know, trust me, I have clients who have never meditated in their lives, and they’re in the 40s and 50s. And they start out with five minutes a day, and I’m going, fantastic. Go for it, you know, do it, do it, do it. And, and it changes them, those who choose to do the meditation, it changes them, like really quickly.

Rick Archer: Okay, so we’re talking about trauma as an impetus to awakening. And Janet gave her example about cancer, you gave an example about OCD, and examples among your clients that you want to bring up.

Thomas Beck: So the one that comes up right away is a man in his early 50s, who, as a child experienced some of the most severe sexual trauma that I’ve ever been aware of in my career. And as a result, it’s, as you might well guess, it’s very, very difficult for him to look at what happened to him, because he goes right back into that state. And he dissociates, like, extreme, extremely dissociated. And so he made a decision that he wanted to confront his trauma head on and said, Okay, I’m with you. And so he began to talk about some things that had happened to him, and only in a very general sense, and I could sit there and watch him, this is actually within the last month, and I could watch him dissociate. And he actually became nauseas could barely hear my voice. And he’s sitting, you know, four feet across from me, sort of doubled over and, you know, I go through the normal routine that’s sort of, you know, having pat the back of his hands and has legs to bring it back, you know, and it began to help a little bit and I got his awareness after about 10 minutes. And then at some point, he sat and he was quiet, and I could I could watch this shift happen internally. I don’t know exactly what was going on. But he made it he made a fundamental shift from being extremely distressed by Even, you know, touching the surface of his trauma, to going clear to the other end of the continuum in a matter of about 10 to 15 minutes. And he said, I call it the Buddhist smile came over his face, and he stepped back relaxed. And he went into an actual state of complete bliss. And I said, How you doing? Let’s call him Ralph. Okay, whatever make up a name, how you doing Ralph, and he just smiled and looked at me. I said, just hang with that, you know, for the next half hour, which he did. And then he said, Okay, this time ago, I’m good. So I made sure he was grounded, you know, and could drive and all that. But he told me, the following week that he had, he had experienced that for the rest of the entire day. And it was the most expansive one of most beautiful experiences of his entire life. So that’s a trajectory that he’s on right now. So it’s very similar to kinds of things that I have experienced myself.

Rick Archer: Would you concur that trauma, and all mental states for that matter, have a physiological correlate that every thought we think every emotion, we feel everything has some kind of neuro physiological counterpart correlate. And if there’s a lot, if there’s been a lot of trauma, and it has residual, you know, effects on if it’s if it’s stored, it must be stored physiologically as well as mentally, and that really overcoming it in necessitates and involves a physiological transformation as much as a mental I think you kind of alluded to that earlier, but maybe we can go into that a little bit.

Thomas Beck: Well, you know, when, when a child is traumatized, no matter what the trauma is, the nature of it, we have to shut down emotionally, oftentimes to survive what’s going on around what’s being done to us. So certain brain structures are altered during that process. And as a form of compensation, you know, our brains are incredibly neuroplastic, which means that one part of the brain can take over the functions of another part compensate compensate. So I think those parts, and this have been shown to happen with people who begin to do mindfulness meditation, and within a space of about eight weeks, fMRI studies so that there are actual physical, structural changes in their brain and functional changes in their brain. So, you know, part, one part of the brain shuts down, another part of the brain opens up as a form of compensation. This is what I believe allows a lot of people who’ve been severely traumatized to become much more intuitive, and makes it easier for them in a way to open up to these other states of consciousness and to the beings that inhabit these other realms.

Janet Colli: Okay, yeah. So now if we move to the next level with that, I’ll just say there’s a way that the way I look at this in myself and in other individuals, if you come in to a setting, you know, a child has setting where there’s going to be abuse and trauma, I also have to look at this in terms of the soul. And and well, we met, say, George Gilbert, who I hope will mentioned later, and learned that her father had been very violent and abusive, and saw the way that it had affected her I knew we were on the right track, right, that my upbringing had not been some vast accidents and tragedy, but that and this is borne out with research as well is that this such settings, teach a person how to either a leave their bodies leave their bodies entirely as in an out of body experience, or you become vast associators. But what happens with that, it doesn’t necessarily cause just pathology at all. It’s teaching you training you how to focus your awareness into other realms and realities that are going to affect us spiritually. Okay, so that dissociative quality that joy certainly certainly, you know, was engaged in, right you learn how to dissociate and so she, she went, she ended up doing something very functional with it. She went to the east was with the Maharishi and, and she learned how to meditate. And it was the early spiritual training of her life. You see, so when you look at it when you when you give a long term view of that, like it’s hard, you know, you don’t want to bring that into early when somebody is coming in with, say, trauma, sexual trauma or anything like that, and say, Well, this is part of your karma or part of your soul’s journey. But I, you know, having been through that, myself, I can’t, I can’t ignore the bigger picture, as well as what it does to us. In terms of our psychology and our physiology.

Rick Archer: Yeah, sure, there’s a bigger picture, some say we sign up for, for what we end up getting, you know, we choose our parents. I read an article a couple of weeks ago about a guy who hit his head on the bottom of the swimming pool and got a severe concussion, and shortly thereafter, began to play beautiful classical music, composing it on the fly, and you could sit there for hours composing this stuff. And he’s played with orchestras and everything now that I, that Thomas’s comment about other parts of the brain opening up to compensate for those that are being shut down, reminded me of that. And then there was that lady who, whose name is eluding me at the moment who wrote stroke of genius, I think it was called in? Well, yes, three part name. Yes, yes. And that article also mentioned a little kid that got hit in the head with a baseball and thereafter he was able to solve complicated mathematical equations just in his head. But one would like to think that, you know, you don’t have to actually damage the brain. Now, in order to open up its full potential, they now can somehow bypass that, ideally, and open it up without being traumatized, or limited in any sense.

Thomas Beck: Right. And, and this is what I wrote about in my book, because of being that I encountered when I was four years old that I call Angie in my book with Actually, her name is cosmic mother. And, you know, what I understand now is that there, there are beings that are very corporeal, they’re very real, like we’re real, like I call them people. And that they have the capacity to download enormous amounts of knowledge energetics into the human body, that it can take months or days are yours, to integrate. And so it isn’t necessarily a traumatic experience, you know, that can lead to lead to different kinds of awakening process in human.

Janet Colli: But it’s gonna sorry, go ahead. Oh, but it’s going to be an intrusion of some nature. That’s the common that’s a common denominator and intrusion, it seems like an intrusion to our, you know, to our ego, ego itself, right. of some nature, that’s what I would say.

Rick Archer: There might depend on how how in tact and defensive, the ego is, you know, if one fully trusts in what’s going on, one might not feel it as an intrusion, but as a gift, you know, spoken to people who do who do speak them downloads, they feel like a whole package of knowledge is downloaded and they don’t feel like they’re being invaded or violated. Right. I feel like they’re being blessed.

Janet Colli: Right? Right. So you have that’s the that’s the trick is that’s the key is, is our perception of it is the perception initially may be one where where, I mean, you just look at the what’s happening in the collective now. Right? And how how can you see that for the gift that it is right? And, you know, that’s it, congratulations, you have a problem, you know, or congratulations, this is this is this is entered your life. That’s kind of the attitude when when ideally would want yeah.

Rick Archer: There’s a quote I wrote down from you about, he said, the current paradigm on our planet is one of polarization and isolation, a deep fear based mass unconsciousness is seize control and will not stop until everything touches is destroyed. I felt this very strong and most of my life and the sense that there’s something out of balance in the world at large has guided many others and myself to the realm of spirit. So you kind of you kind of wonder whether the squirrel outside you kind of wonder whether the dark the incense that may seem in uncertainty unsurmountable and hopeless, is actually a trauma that is trauma that is eliciting or are triggering, catalyzing a worldwide awakening

Janet Colli: part of the plan. That’s it is part of the plan. That’s an incredible way to see it. That and, you know, I just presented IT Assist, and I wanted to talk about someone’s bipolar episode. And the what could be viewed by Western medicine as psychosis. But what he got was this expansion and contraction that is at the heart of the universe is like breathing cycle. So, right that so we are, you know, we can see this this polarity, so the polarity gets bigger, it’s very Union, but, but out of that the third transcendent state of consciousness or the third transcendent physician will come. So, so yeah, so if we’re in this contraction, now, it’s just part of the plan.

Rick Archer: Yeah. There’s a verse in the Bhagavad Gita where Lord Krishna says, when, when Dharma is in decay, and a Dharma flourishes, I take birth, age after age. So it’s, it’s kind of like, you know, Crosby, Stills and Nash that we know, the darkest hour is always before the dawn, although they didn’t coined that phrase. But if we think of a pendulum swing, it kind of has to swing all the way in one direction before it can start swinging in the other. Yeah,

Thomas Beck: yeah. So um, one of the things that comes up for me is in, it’s related to all this, and it’s the idea of how how that change occurred, how it occurs physically in a person in the sort of why it happens. And the underlying why of it brings us into what they called Chaos Theory and mathematics. And I’m not a mathematician, but I know it, but from reading about it, is that when you feed a certain kind of energy into any natural system, which can be the weather pattern, it can be our individual consciousness or collective consciousness, you keep feeding energy, and over and over and over and over. And at some point, what they call the underlying attractor, the underlying forum of the system will go through an abrupt shift, right? And this is manifesting people, if you read like, like the book, cosmic consciousness was the first book that I ever read about. Right? Yes, what it was 1899 or 1900, or something. And it’s like, people meditate, and they meditate and meditate for years and years and years. And then one day, all of a sudden, for no apparent reason, whoosh, something happens. And this huge energy comes through the body, it can just always, but it can happen this way. And you know, you see the world suddenly in very different ways. And so I have a really intense interest right now in understanding exactly what that mechanism is, I mean, biologically, what happens like with the, the client that I mentioned a little while ago, or my own experience, know, how how it actually happened? What’s the moment that goes on? What is it physiologically, and emotionally all these components? If we understood this really belt, it is something that can be applied to a lot of people collectively? You know, a very different sort of planet.

Rick Archer: Yeah. There’s a phrase or term in physics called phase transition. And it’s, it’s actually a very common phenomenon. When you boil water, nothing much seems to be happening, and even at 211 degrees Fahrenheit, but at 212, boom, it starts to boil. And there are many, many other examples in physics like that. So it could be that, you know, we’re a lot closer to a significant shift in the world than it would seem.

Janet Colli: Yeah, the word species shift comes to mind. And that was exactly what the beings told. Marcy Clemens, she’s Haley, in my book, sacred encounters. So that’s the first part of the book. And they basically told her we’re undergoing its species shift. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And Thomas alluded to individual shifts to those also can can seem like they you know, that nothing much is happening. It might be years off and all of a sudden Pop is a shift. And I’m sure there’s a physiological component of that if we looked at what’s going on with the chakras and all that stuff.

Janet Colli: Right. So So what’s happening individually, if, if if individuals are experiencing this then it this is this is their this is their word and it will move like a wave through the species. So that the individuals that are experiencing this transformational shift such as ourselves such as you, that that we then everybody, everybody else participates in that, right by virtue of our our connection.

Rick Archer: I think people, most people have heard the 100th Monkey story. And I think that may have been discredited, I don’t know, but similar.

Janet Colli: Yes. Right. Right. And so Okay, I think we’re edging we’re edging towards the beings talking about the beings.

Rick Archer: Let’s talk about that. Because we’ve alluded to it a number of times. So what are we talking about when we talk about subtle beings and their relevance to the whole individual and collective awakening?

Thomas Beck: Oh, I mean, subtle beings. Very subtle, and not so subtle beings.

Rick Archer: A few of them are running for President.

Janet Colli: Well, that’s a Yeah.

Rick Archer: One of them in particular.

Thomas Beck: In my case, for example, when I, I knew all of my life, that something profound had happened to me when I was four years old, and I couldn’t quite pin it, you know, I really didn’t know what it was, I knew that it was some sort of a, let’s call it an intervention from outside of normal, normal state of affairs. And I had dreams about it, then, you know, over the years, you

Janet Colli: know, therapy, one, one or two sessions,

Thomas Beck: A couple of hypnotherapy sessions, which brought some imagery up. And then eventually, I worked with a woman, a friend of ours, who she’s sort of a natural Remote Procedure, if you will. And she was able to tap into the, the timeframe during which this happened, and, and the emotional experience that my sister had had at the time. And she mimic mimic that. And when I saw her mimic it, it sent me actually into an altered state.

Janet Colli: It was sheer trauma, it was sheer trauma, it was sheer terror. It was terror, my sister, not. Right,

Thomas Beck: right. And then at that moment, I began to recover some of the actual memories of what had happened. So because in psychological terms, the memory is composed of the content of what happened, and the emotional state that you’re in at the time. So the tightly bound together, so I was able to access the feeling state spontaneously, and the memories began to come forth

Janet Colli: to not merely How can I say this, the memories are re experienced. So it isn’t just a mental process. But Tom was in the state itself, he was re experiencing them. And

Thomas Beck: very physiological, very, very intense, very, not just thoughts.

Janet Colli: Yes. And so that’s kind of when these memories are so deeply dissociated. And then you also have the age involved very early childhood. So they are discreetly held in a state dependent memory. So you literally have to be in that state of consciousness in order to recover them fully. So he went into the re experiencing of his contact of his contact with this otherworldly being. And what had been what we had merely surmised for all of our lives, then became manifest.

Rick Archer: So So Thomas, what was that experience? Exactly? What the subtle being? Why was it so impactful?

Thomas Beck: I was so the setting is Central Ohio, a small house that we lived in my family. And my the memories that came through were this compelling sort of sense of overwhelming love, like like unconditional love that was pulling me pulling on me like really, really hard. And I had the memory of actually being moved through the air. Over a period of moments up toward this what I just considered her a light being. That’s one way to describe her, a female being who was making a very powerful contact with my subconscious mind and my conscious mind. And eventually, I ended up in her presence. When one of the early members that came back was looking at Our house, there were three houses 123, and ours was the center house. And I remember brilliant, brilliant white light in the sky, and eventually moving being moved toward that white light. And eventually I was in the presence of this being

Janet Colli: the trees you did is that where you trying to grab the trees as you went by,

Thomas Beck: or you’re trying to ground myself. So grab, we had this huge mulberry tree in the backyard. And I was like trying to grab that to ground myself. And at some point, all of a sudden, I felt this enormous wave go through my body. And it’s just like, I can let go, I don’t have to struggle, I can just go with this energy. And I found myself shortly thereafter, in the presence of this diminutive little being very definitely a female being probably four feet tall or smaller. And pretty much in a state of confusion, because I’m a four year old, and I’m just trying to form my ego. And I’m trying to figure out how the world works. And all of a sudden, it’s like, everything I know, up to that moment goes out the window, like quickly. What I did remember, and this came through, actually, much later, years later, I first remembered sort of lying on a table, and sort of propping myself up on one arm, and looking in the eyes into the eyes of this being. And at that point, everything went sort of black. And but but what I understand now, what I really understand is that I it was sort of like a mind merge with this being and that she was downloading a massive amount of knowledge and energetics into me physical energy. Yeah. And I was just overwhelmed. And I came to understand later that it wasn’t her it was not her first choice to do that at that moment, because I was too young. But but she felt an imperative to do so because of where the species is right now. And because this whole thing was set up long before I was born, I found out only a few years ago, that my mother as a child had had an experience and she didn’t know how to recognize it. But that that’s unfolded, too. And there are actually some what you call MIB experiences that have happened in our family, over the years, men in black and black, real men and black. So this being dreamy toward her. I was I was blessed to be able to experience unconditional love on a level that I couldn’t have imagined. That has been the primary nature of my experience with this being is that she exudes unconditional love. I mean, some people talk about negative experiences with beings and I haven’t had that kind of experience. Mine has been very, very positive. And then she sort of went away for many, many years, until about five or six years ago when I started consciously in my meditations, asking for her to return into my life. And one day, I felt this very overwhelming presence that lasted for a whole day and then into my meditation that night. And I asked no cosmic Mother, what’s happening here. And what I got was, I’m not for you right now. But somebody else is, and there is a male figure. Now, the I don’t know, I don’t know what his actual name is. But I call him Henry, we call him Henry. And Henry is being that I feel this presence all the time. And then in the last couple of years, cosmic mother has come back into my life, and I have been aware of her presence, many times, specially when I’ve been in these very intense states. She’s actually helped initiate these states in what I was talking about earlier, in a therapeutic setting, actually, so I’m aware that she’s around and that I’m in the in a very intensive phase of my awakening right now, which includes the healing process that I’ve described. It

Rick Archer: wasn’t Henry, the name of Jimmy Stewart’s rabbit in that movie warehouse

Thomas Beck: Harvey.

Janet Colli: Henry’s actually, he’s very personable, although he says I am not a soothsayer if I asked too many questions, but he’s been known to give us information, very grounded information such as, should we check our baggage or, or, you know, at the airport or, you know, if I have a, sometimes I’ll ask him a question about a client, you know, or is just or for guidance. He’s also informed me that my mother, who was I mentioned was very fractured. And so she’s been through her own healing process. And, and now she, Henry was able to inform me and I picked up that she’s back she she is doing very well now she has gone through her own healing process. So anyway, Henry, I just want to say Henry’s been very helpful. And as the emissary or go between between Tom and cosmic mother. You know, the universe is efficient. And so, yeah,

Rick Archer: I was gonna ask you some questions that will help fill in the blanks for some people who might think this is getting a little wacky. Well, first of all, Thomas, did you with the cosmic mother experience where you’re four years old, and you’re grasping at the tree? And next thing you knew you’re on a table that kind of sounds like Alien abduction, where your physical body went up? Was it your physical body? Or is that an OBE thing?

Thomas Beck: Was my physical body? Okay, I tend to shy away from certain terminology anymore. But yeah, it was a it was a definitely an encounter experience with an otherworldly being

Rick Archer: a craft of some kind that had a table.

Thomas Beck: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I, I’d like to just mention one thing relative to this. And that is, you know, people think about are you talking about subtle beings and so forth, and not so subtle beings. And I made it a point to mention someplace in this discussion, that a couple of years ago, NASA released a report that they estimate that there are some 20 billion Earth type planets in our Milky Way galaxy alone of based on Kepler telescopes, that and that within the, the, the known universe, that there are, you know, some quintillion or so, possibly, Earth type planets are given

Rick Archer: a trillion galaxies instead of a couple 100 billion in the known universe that just came out a couple of weeks ago. Okay, yeah. So you multiply 2 trillion by what a couple 100? What do you say 20 billion or something? Some gigantic, you get a big number

Thomas Beck: 10 to the 15th, or 10, to the 18? Some huge, huge numbers. Gosh, folks, you know, we’re not alone in the universe, not alone. So the idea that oh, there are actual physical beings visiting our planet,

Janet Colli: or Okay, let me make the point here physical or non physical. I mean, we we are in right now, what we think of as a physical material reality. But is that the only Dimensional Reality? Of course not. And so I, I don’t get really hung up with, you know, I look at it as phase transitions, whether or not they manifest materially, in our material reality or not, they may, and they may not, some things happen out of body, and some things happen very materially. But you have to become, how can I say fluent, you’ve just become more fluent, these are just like, think of it as the the water turning into ice, that we happen to have the ability to pass through material objects, at times facilitated by these beings, that they themselves are not bound by our temporal and linear.

Thomas Beck: Well, they have the technologies, you know, their

Janet Colli: spirit we call a spiritual technologies, spiritual and

Thomas Beck: scientific technologies that are far far advanced beyond what humans are sure,

Rick Archer: I think a good principle to bring in and use Well, here’s a quote from your book, Thomas, the end of Homo sapiens and the birth of a new species. He say, a vast consciousness organizes the universe, subsuming everything is the glue that holds the universe together, everywhere and nowhere. And I think science helps us realize this, because if you look at anything closely, you see that vast intelligence at work, look at a single atom look at look at a grain of sand and the trillions of atoms that are in that look at, you know, a cubic centimeter of empty space somewhere way out between two galaxies, even it contains, you know, gamma rays and photons and so on passing through that have that are perfectly orchestrated by an intelligence level or degree of intelligence we can barely comprehend. So the whole thing to me is one big mass of intelligence which we could call God if we want and, and go ahead and is revolt.

Thomas Beck: Well, one of one of the things that that came through, in in several of my sessions over the last couple of years, I would so imagine being in a very extreme expanded, but yet very, super connected. state of consciousness. The other end of the continuum from the dissociated state of consciousness. And what came to me was, I guess you could call them principles, which to me make perfect sense, that space is not just big, like really, really big, like they see an Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, it’s infinite, it’s actually infinite. The other point is, time is infinite. There, there was no beginning and there is no end, you know, and that sort of like flies in the face of Big Bang Theory, which is the whole discussion, I don’t want to go into necessarily, but the third is that consciousness also is infinite. So you have these three concepts. And it’s, I think, virtually impossible to really understand these concepts in our normal waking state of consciousness, that to be in an expansive state, you get it as a direct experience of that reality. So you know, I feel that I have had that experience a number of times. And when I’m in my normal, you know, beta state talking to you, it’s like, yeah, these are really fascinating ideas. But it’s, that’s different than actually being in that state where you get it directly.

Janet Colli: Or being in the presence of what one of these beings, you know, to say that that’s it, that for us has been a extreme or altered state, right. And so we’re trying to normalize it more by talking about it. And apparently, it’s time to talk about it in our culture, or we wouldn’t be sitting here. But these are experiences that people have had, and that we have had much skepticism and ridicule. And it’s, it’s very important to provide a place as you’re doing so that we can talk about this in a as grounded a way as we can.

Rick Archer: Okay, a few years ago, I organized a panel discussion with some friends who all have subtle perception, including Harry alto, Christian Kirk, Francis Bennett, it’s not you can find it on BatGap. And I don’t want to name names, because but among these people, you know, this kind of perception is routine. And one of them, for instance, said that, you know, he constantly routinely, as you and I experienced birds and trees, experiences, all the subtle realms of creation and all the beings who reside there. And, and, and, you know, you mentioned something about being in the presence of one of these beings, well, we always are there, they’re always

Janet Colli: good points, yes, just are not conscious of it fully. Yeah, or, or some of us are some of the time, right. And so it’s getting more acclimated to that, and being able to listen to others, you know, without automatically, you know, having to withdraw. And so that’s, I think it’s really important at us at this juncture in our evolution, the evolution of our species to be able to, to be able to grok it.

Rick Archer: Here’s a quote from your book, sacred encounters, you say that the subtle is fundamental to and gives rise to the gross, gross material reality is said by mystics and visionaries alike to arise out of the subtle realm. I think that’s important to understand in this context. And physics helps corroborate it in terms of, maybe it’s not a one to one correlation. But in terms of the fact that the deeper you go in terms of physical reality, the less material things become, to the point where materiality can’t be found whatsoever. And so, if one has that in mind that we could think of it as an ocean where the gross levels like the surface, and then there’s deeper levels, and there’s all these fish down there that you don’t see, if you just look at the surface. It’s a good perhaps a good metaphor. And another thing, the reason we don’t see it ordinarily is that the gross perception overshadows the subtle, the senses because it’s situated to a relatively crude level of functioning, and lose the ability or never even gain the ability to pick up on these more refined, subtle values. But eventually, in the course of spiritual evolution, they do. And that’s one of the things I think, why I like to talk about this topic sometimes is that it’s definitely part of the journey and people might as well get used to the idea that, you know, this whole you know, vertical dimension of subtle realms is part of the the overall typography of the universe.

Thomas Beck: Yeah, that’s, that’s very well put. Yeah, and, and that’s why Meditation has been such an important part of my life. Because I, I learned early on that basically, the more you meditate, if you’re doing it right, the more open you become. And I got to the point where my, my, my sensory input was pretty overwhelming because I had been doing such a great deal of meditation. So I had to back off for a while, but my nervous system has adjusted to that now. So

Janet Colli: yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. So can I say it’s, so his weekly sessions with the union, I believe the union therapist or the can that was the container through which this being could enter and enhance or enhance is a good way to put it enhance his nervous system by being in the presence of that higher energetic, and so every week, it would be, you know, like, literally Darshan, or. Yeah, that’s the way to describe Yeah. So.

Rick Archer: So Thomas, your book is entitled, The End of homeostasis, Homo sapiens and the birth of a new species? Do you feel that that is literally true, and that a new species will evolve relatively, on how long it will take that will be as different from us as we are from monkeys, for instance?

Thomas Beck: I think so I think we may or may not, you know, end up having the same form that we do right now. I mean, but but it is a, it is a phase transition that I believe is already well underway. And it’s like popcorn, you know, one person becomes awakened, and another reaches some critical mass, and then boom, a lot of people I don’t know about everybody, but a lot of people, it doesn’t take everybody you know, it’s one of these situations where I liken it to, like, if you’re, if you have a chemical compound, and you put what’s called a dopa dinner, which is another, like, like one atom of another material in it, sometimes you put in like one atom in 10,000. And it completely changes the characteristics of the solution that you created. So maybe it only takes like, one, you know, one person every 10,000, or every million to become fully awakened in order to affect the collective. Yeah,

Rick Archer: there’s a couple of examples, I mean, 1% of the cells in the heart are called pacemaker cells, and they regulate the beating of the entire heart. The square root of 1% of the photons in a beam of light, if they become coherent, with one another, creates a phase transition in which the entire thing becomes a laser. And there are other examples in magnetism and other other examples from science. But, you know, Mars used to be really big on that point, you’re probably yes, getting the square root of 1% of the world’s population to meditate and so on. In groups.

Janet Colli: Yeah, yeah. And our function right now happens to be to elucidate the role that these other otherworldly beings we call them are playing in this. So we are not alone, we are certainly connected with them, energetically, genetically, and there is a vast I would call intervention happening. And for those people that are having similar experiences, and I have to believe that they’re going to be some in your audience. We are here to normalize it and to validate it, authenticate it just as George Gilbert did for us, say 1520 20 years ago, 20 years ago. Yeah,

Rick Archer: we’ll talk more about her. Okay. So if we were to draw a Venn diagram, which is like people have probably seen those, it’s like overlapping circles. And in one circle, you know, you have certain thing that a circle another you have the b circle, and then and where they overlap, it’s like A and B together. Could we say that? You know, there’s the whole alien thing, extraterrestrials there’s the whole subtle being thing, and then there’s some kind of overlap. In other words, there may be subtle beings who, who live among us, routinely and normally, as, you know, inhabit the subtler realms in our everyday world. And then there are others than their extraterrestrials who come from who knows where and and and yet, there’s an overlap in terms of these extraterrestrial seem to have mastered travel not only in over distance, but over dimensions and yes, can function Yes. And subtler realms as well as travel vast distances.

Thomas Beck: Yeah, we’re in the way human beings are in the playpen right now you know, in terms of like, These technologies, but you have to consider given that another species would have the ability to travel vast distances, even interstellar let alone intergalactic distances. Well, they have to have, they have to have the technology to first communicate across those distances in a relatively short period of time. Because if you travel, say, even at the speed of light, which is enormous, and you shined a flashlight at one end of our galaxy, it takes what 50,000 years for the beam to hit the other side, right from the weekend? Yeah, we can’t we can’t, we can’t sit around waiting

Rick Archer: for the the photon the trip is instantaneous.

Thomas Beck: Exactly. Right. But then also, you know, you want to travel from here to say, the nearest star alphas and tourists for something light years away, right? Well, okay, we can get in our, you know, thruster rocket, and we’ll be there in 50,000 years or something, well, that won’t cut it, you know. So there has to be some level of technology that goes far beyond what we’re utilizing right now. And, you know, these, these are the material technologies, but they’re also agenda over the to a little while ago, is the technologies of a spirit, which, you know, which we I think, as human beings are in the process of really learning for the first time, perhaps, you know, it’s like, what, what comes out of a great deal of meditation, the very things that, you know, you talk about a lot on your program, you know, these, these are remarkable technologies that cumulatively will become, or are becoming the phase shift that we’re talking about. And,

Janet Colli: you know, we happen to think it’s encoded in our DNA, you know, I, I have absolutely no proof of that, but, but there is that, that, again, is one thing that the beings have have said is, and they said that directly to joy, George Gilbert, they said, Your DNA is coded to awaken at this time, and awaken she did. So, you know, when she told us 20 years ago, we’d be undergoing something similar. You know, who would have thunk, right? That, but now, what I see is what I what I see is that Tom is going through in slow motion. And that’s that two is is very important, because, you know, I is the more analytical one of the two I can document I can write, I can describe the, the experience, so to make it more, to normalize it for others see, and so he’s going through in slow motion, what joy went through, oh, how many years ago, at this point, you know, when a being touched her on the forehead, and she went into unity. So your Tom is, as his nervous system is entrained, week after week after week, and?

Thomas Beck: Well, my, my resident state of consciousness is going through regular periodic upgrades. And I don’t know what I don’t know what the end point

Rick Archer: is, frankly, I don’t think there is one person maybe,

Thomas Beck: maybe there isn’t. But it’s very interesting to be going through the process, and it’s quite exciting, you know, it’s a, it’s phenomenal to, to have these physical sensations in my body. And also, you know, the expansion of my awareness of what’s around me in a very different way than our normal, you know, sort of state of mind. Many of these things have happened, like when I’m driving on the freeway, for no apparent reason, you know, or when I’m, we take a ferry back and forth between, you know, the mainland and the island a couple times a week, and I’ve had it happen when I’m on the ferry, like, why now? I don’t know why now, but I

Rick Archer: might as well. You know, there’s seven, 7 billion people or so on the planet. And I don’t know, I wonder how many of these people have been actually influenced by Israel’s directly that sounds like this is bringing up an exciting point. So I don’t think I have to finish the question. You just saw

Janet Colli: it. How exciting is this? Well, I just spoke at the American Center for the integration of spiritually transformative experiences assist, and I am Marcy Clemens, who’s in my book, The sacred encounters. She’s the first case, right? She was in my doctoral dissertation. She is now integrating and and integrated enough that she is now publicly speaking about her experiences as she spoke. Now, I’ve been talking about this for 15 years, but the timing is everything. So when Marcy spoke at this conference, it was such a tremendous success. At the end of it, it was like yay, alien. Everybody was like, an as we sat around the table, a very large table, and these are people, you know, people luminaries in the field of transfer, personal psychology, right. And some people started to share things that they had not known, you know how to either think about how to how to integrate. And so we had a profound sharing at one point, okay, I hate you know, I hate to out, I’m not gonna say by name, but one at one point a woman had to absent herself, go to the bathroom, and throw up. Okay, it was so physiologically impactful to her so triggering to her to finally have some

Rick Archer: collaboration or

Janet Colli: cooperation, light, light about what her experience had been. So we so we were having people start to share, maybe for the first time ever, some of these experiment, you know, some elements of this experience, and we are right there. So now I’m getting chills. Okay. So we’re right there. The timing is, is is now and so if we have certain if we impact certain individuals right now with this, the work will go will fall on whatever, you know, I just say fertile ground it needs to.

Rick Archer: So let’s play a little mind game here. I mean, from our perspective, and you focused a lot more on this than I have, you know, we have these accounts, snippets of information and stuff remembered during hypnosis, and, and all kinds of stuff in it, you know, if you read all the literature, they’re all these bits and pieces coming together from various people all over the world. But if you could do a, do a mind shift, and put yourself in the perspective of these alien beings, whoever they are, and you completely understood their agenda and their role in the evolution of our planet, our species and saving the world or whatever. Well, how would you describe or elaborate their perspective and their role? What would you have to say about what they’re doing?

Thomas Beck: Well, the word word that I used as a midwifing process, that they are overseeing the transition that the human species is in process of going through right now. And they are making adjustments as we go along. The way to make adjustments is to impact individual people, as opposed to like, lineages landing on a White House lawn, you know, and

Rick Archer: at some point may be the thing to do, but

Thomas Beck: it may be I don’t really know. But you know, there’s a couple, there’s a couple of important points I want to I want to bring up right here. One is, I think, what we experience as a when we talk about these matters, and we get like the resistance, or the scoffing and these sorts of things, just like I think people are experiencing much of what they would experience, if they were suddenly to awaken. It’s like, existential fear crops up, you know, and that becomes the resistance. So it’s easy to ridicule stuff, because it isn’t scientific. Well, you know, yeah, it is. And, and we use labels we use words, and words are important words can show us what possibilities there are. But there are certain words that I don’t use anymore, because I don’t think

Janet Colli: we have to use them in order to say what we don’t use, but we don’t say alien abduction,

Rick Archer: we stopped using as too much of a creepy connotation,

Janet Colli: right? I say close encounters,

Thomas Beck: and the being I scarcely even use the word being with regard to cosmic mother’s like, she’s a person, you know, she it humanizes her because she isn’t human, like she isn’t our species. But she has the human phenotype, you know, she has two arms and two legs and head and eyes and all that. And I think that’s just a generic phenotype throughout the cosmos, it’s probably a very efficient way to, to to get around

Janet Colli: at the same time, I can say she’s a grey, she she would be a gray that you know, that people might relate to. I’m working with someone now who has experiences who has experienced Mantis type beings, which is a wonderful thing I am I am so profoundly, you know, elated to have him in my practice. So

Thomas Beck: well, people a lot of people don’t realize that planet Earth was dominated for millions, many millions of years by gigantic insects billions of years ago. So, well, they were but they are.

Janet Colli: So you know, so we, you know, so we both have to use some labels and then we translate we change the labels we transform the labels And we like to think we’re beyond the labels, but we have to talk, you know, we have to say something and so, so you know, so I say Gray, or, you know, you know, there are other kinds of beings. And so one interesting thing is so here we are at the table at assist sharing. And so immediately someone comes up well, what about those evil greys? Do we have to protect ourselves from them? And, and this is just so so right, you talk about non dualism, and here we go right into the cosmos with that with that good versus evil perspective. And so we know we’re right there as well, Marcy and I to say, well, that’s not how we look at it. You know, that’s not how we see this. It’s not about good versus evil. It may be on some levels, but we don’t see these beings as, as that.

Rick Archer: What about cattle mutilations that’s out about? Yeah, well,

Thomas Beck: well, you know, I I don’t know a whole lot about it. But what the little bit that I’ve read, suggests to me that some but some agent agency, I don’t know who whether it’s the the Air Force of somewhere or somebody outside of you know, some otherworldly beings. It appears that they’re just testing, they’re doing tissue testing to see how contaminated we are.

Janet Colli: Beings. Yeah, yeah, the beings and so yeah, I could, you know, we don’t focus on that.

Thomas Beck: Well, people make a big deal of it. But my goodness, you know, how many cattle do we slaughter every year?

Rick Archer: Yeah, it is that it just makes it? It makes me kind of think that, you know, maybe it’s some of them are twisted, and others more benign? But I don’t know. But we’ll

Janet Colli: see. Yes, that’s the point is, we don’t really know that. And I don’t, I don’t go out and teach that. You know, we teach from personal experience, and from the experience of those that we know best. And that’s not our experience. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And you know, and what you choose to put your attention on grows stronger in your life. With some beings I mean, there’s a darker ones and you don’t want to go there, you know, you want to keep your attention

Janet Colli: yet. At the same time, I’m, I’m working on a book of spiritual emergency stories. And there are no doubt about it. People that have been in hell realms, what the Tibetans would call hell realms, I’m not going to say that doesn’t exist, it absolutely does, or, or some forms of attachments or beings that you don’t want, you know, in your physical body, in your physical space. And there are ways to work with that. So the most profound way I know someone I’ll be including his story, when he found himself in a hellish realm, which has a particular odor to it as well, you have to, you have to understand these things are tangible. And what he found was prayer, was actually praying was actually, you know, reaching out in to, to the light, was the solution was the remedy. And so that whole is transformative leap. Was that. So? Yeah,

Rick Archer: huh? Yeah, there are things you can do. And experience one time where I was attacked by something creepy, and I started doing this Sanskrit prayer, and then dispelled it. So I think, you know, some of the listeners might be they’re totally comfortable with the notion that there have been these great spiritual masters like Ramana Maharshi, and, you know, various other spiritual masters. And yet there’s, they might sort of find it a stretch to think of, you know, extraterrestrial beings as being kind of spiritual shepherds or guides and trying to uplift mankind. And yet, there are some stories in your book, or at least you’re quoting, Joy Gilbert’s book of some of these spiritual masters actually being in cahoots with cahoots with these extraterrestrials and so that’s kind of interesting that they would be the sort of the earthly human fleshly agents and then they have their, their sort of extraterrestrial counterparts, and they’re in there working with each other.

Janet Colli: Very well said, I, you know, I couldn’t Yeah, I couldn’t say it better myself is that seems to be the picture. And that’s a part of my own research. And that’s how we came to meet George Gilbert. I do hope that you’ll be able to interview her and in case you aren’t her book, it’s time to remember is a jewel

Rick Archer: around the time that came out, and I totally forgot. Yes, it’s cool to find it in your refer.

Janet Colli: Yeah, and I tried to go through it or her book is the jewel and then my book is like kind of pointing out With each facet, you know each facet in detail psychologically and linking it up. So her life is the embodiment of bringing out the connection with these beings going from the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to Tibetan Buddhist of y’all to Rinpoche, who she was a student of, and, you know, at the behest of the head of the lineage, the Nigma link lineage. And so, so having that, say pedigree that’s there, so pedigree herself, you know, was very important to us, and the experiences her experiences, and connecting her spiritual work with those traditions. And these beings that was, was critical. I say that that come out. And so now we’re kind of we are in her tradition, say in her lineage as well, coming out with our own experiences at this point, because it’s time it’s just time. And yeah, so I so you know, I don’t we’re not out here trying to convince anybody who doesn’t want to be convinced, but just sharing our own experience, hopefully, in a grounded enough way, you know, beginning with cancer, beginning with trauma. Now, I’m working with people that have some degree of psychosis, and seeing that the spiritually transformative experience that our culture is denying, and, and then sharing our enlightenment process. So if people you know, need to hear this, then they will, and for those that don’t, that’s okay. That is absolutely got to trust that too.

Rick Archer: Sure. I think Thomas wants to say something, oh, just

Thomas Beck: in the last couple of years, I have made a connection with his eminence, Garcia Rinpoche. And I really didn’t know anything about him. But I but I was led to him through well through a number that kept resurfacing over and over and over through my life. And, you know, I think it’s important, I think it’s important to, to ground this in science, you know, what, what Janet and I have been experiencing, to grounded in, you know, historical traditions. I mean, I don’t, I don’t consider myself to be a Buddhist or Hindu or anything. But I look at the various spiritual practices. And I think what, you know what works for me. So I feel a great connection to Garcia Rinpoche, for example. And yet, here was this other very strange thing that happened to me when I was four years old, I didn’t you know, I don’t have any memory of asking for it to happen. It just happened. And now it makes sense to me. In a much broader perspective, this is a universe teeming with intelligent life. Oh, no. And they are around us right now. And they love us very, very deeply. And I get that there are people who feel they’ve had negative experiences with that, and I have compassion for them. I’m just telling you, that hasn’t been my experience.

Janet Colli: And what I found is it was absolutely critical that this happened. The first case in my, in my book, sacred encounters is a woman that had post traumatic stress from it. And so that so, so not to disavow the traumatic aspects of it. In fact, that was where we started. That’s what we started working with. And, and she was, she, this is Haley, this is Marcy Clemens, who is now teaching. And so you can work through that whatever, you know, whatever. Shot shock that that caused your nervous system, and your consciousness that that can be worked through. That’s why we trained in trauma. Okay, trauma therapy. Okay, and so, so not to disavow that, but to shelter that to usher it into the next stage of expansion is really, really the the name of the game. I also want to bring out when we Yeah, well, when. Along the time that we met joy, which is about 20 years ago, I was very invested in trying to find out what the other spiritual traditions knew about these beings. And I made a point of, you know, almost harassing Shri MAs. Bengali saying to now is a Napa, California, have her, you know, asking her Swami to comment on this, I would go to Darshan with them and ask them what do you know about These aliens these so called aliens, what do you know about them? What do you know about vimanas? That UFOs in the Vedic literature? And the answer I got from her Swami was very clear. No one is alien to Sri Ma. No one is alien to Sri Ma. So that’s, I think that’s about the time when we probably dropped that terminology. You see, because

Rick Archer: we refer Mexicans as aliens, you know, but think of ourselves as one global family, then no one’s an alien. So you just have to expand it out beyond the Earth, and then no one’s right.

Thomas Beck: I think one of the primary things that I would like to stress is that there’s a continuum of with trauma of dissociation at one end and super connectedness at the other end, yeah. And there is a there is a some medium point in there that can can be used as a doorway to transition from one to the other, and that this can be done on a collective level. Right. It’s like what happened to me when I was four years old was my brain got rebooted before it’s ready to be rebooted. And now it’s being upgraded and rebooted again. And

Janet Colli: integrated. This is the integration process. So the on the actual experiences, and then the, the reliving the recovery of them and making the connections, what it all meant, and then having to live in this higher energetic, that’s the integration process. And that’s what Marcy Kleven spoke to at the assist conference. And it was electrifying. So so we’re apparently the timing is now we’re ready to hear this.

Rick Archer: You mentioned science a few minutes ago, Thomas. And I’m, for some reason, I’m really fascinated with the potentially enriching, mutually enriching relationship between science and spirituality, in terms of science, being able to bring a more systematic approach to spirituality. So it’s not all just faith in conjecture, and one one person’s subjective experience against another. And also, in terms of spirituality, being able to bring a whole new set of tools to science, which it can’t, you know, in to enable it to explore the vast majority of creation, which it is totally unaware of, and doesn’t even believe in, because it doesn’t have the tools to explore. And, and, you know, the ultimate tool would be the human nervous system itself, which is far more sophisticated and subtle in its functioning than any tool that we’ve been able to build to extend our senses, any material tool, and

Thomas Beck: well, right, and, you know, the, these these beings, these people, well, they come from different. I don’t, I don’t want to call it lineages, but they come from, from different genetic lines than humans do. At least as far as we know. And so their perception of the world around them is probably vastly different than what than how we perceive the world. And, and so, you know, I think I think it’s incumbent upon us, we who have been in contact with these beings, and they’ve been in contact with us, these people, that at some point in our lives, we teach about it, you know, we we bring it and bring it out in a grounded way that we do connect it with science, I mean, I, you know, I know, boop, boop, boop, boop boop Okay. Okay. Yeah. The, the technologies you have, you have the technologies that help beings travel vast distances, distances, and communicate, but you also have the technologies of the mind, you know, it’s like how how can a being communicate with a human and not not speak verbally to you, you know, is there some what I call a primal language that, you know, you don’t have to learn like 50 Different Earth languages in order to communicate with people, right, this is a primal language that we all can understand. I think there is would that be useful?

Rick Archer: There are levels of the mind which proceed meaning right? And then if you function on those levels of the mind, they proceed verb, I mean, right language, their pre but they don’t proceed, they don’t proceed. They will say they don’t proceed meaning so meanings can be conveyed without the use of of different languages, which are right,

Janet Colli: you know, that’s it. Yeah. That’s it. That’s, that’s more Yes.

Thomas Beck: Right. And I think and I think these I think a great deal of knowing or knowledge can be conveyed in a very short period of time. I think we, we grossly underestimate the capability of our human brains to take in and download and linearize or, you know, integrate information, I think I think we have vastly more capability than we actually realize.

Janet Colli: And utilize, yeah.

Rick Archer: And speaking of like, you know, shifting of the culture and so on. I mean, four or 500 years ago, it was commonly assumed that the earth was the center of the universe, you know, the center of the solar system, and so on. And, and very few people think that today, although you can still find websites where people do think that right, but um, you know, so. So, you know, and science is really the tool that has helped us to realize that. So I would like to think that through a kind of a much more mature science, which incorporated saw the kinds of things we’re talking about here, exploration and knowledge of subtle realms, we could eventually make knowledge of that familiarity with that. And even every common everyday experience of that, as common as is now the understanding that the Sun is the center of the solar system, or many of the other things that we agree upon as a culture, which we once thought to be different,

Janet Colli: or energy, the energy

Thomas Beck: more you’re talking about the sun being the center of the solar system, and the sun actually, is, is the source of all forms of energy that we use on this planet, for example, for example, and I have looked into some of the technologies based upon my work with individuals. It’s like, you do a what if game, okay, what if these crafts a, for example, are real? Yeah, if so, then how do they do the things that people report, because they’re far outside the envelope of any technology that we have currently. Although that being said, I think we are moving very rapidly toward these hyper column hyper technologies, some of which we know about publicly and a lot I don’t think we know about publicly. But I’ve looked into this. And I think there are ways to access, say solar energy that are very different than anything that’s being done right now. And that’s an area of interest for me. And so

Janet Colli: yeah, Tom has an energy project, I’ll just say that and that’s designed to bring some of these technologies to manifest them right. So that are so that energy on this planet can can be safely

Thomas Beck: can be can be accessed safely, limitlessly? Sure. And we don’t have to burn anything to do that.

Rick Archer: And guys like Gregg Braden and others, you know, who are talking about zero point energy and, and technologies like that. And there are some who say that many of our current technologies such as the, you know, the transistor, or, you know, fiber optics might actually have been reverse engineered from crashed alien spacecraft. Ships.

Janet Colli: Yeah. See, we don’t know about things like that we try to be very, very grounded in our approach. And when I say Tom has an energy project, I mean, an energy project, it’s not theory, it’s actual practical device. And so so we’re just we are trying to normalize and well manifest what has impacted us and others and bring it bring it home, bring it home, you know, yeah,

Rick Archer: um, there’s a whole thing about, which maybe I’ll talk more with joy Gilbert about this, if I ended up interviewing her about, you know, implants in the body and genetic manipulation, you know, taking fetuses from the body and doing this and that. And so it seems like there’s some kind of a genetic engineering going on, on an interspecies level perhaps. And, you know,

Thomas Beck: this is humans are trying to do it, Aren’t we trying to engineer everything

Rick Archer: with a cruder or more simplistic understanding of genetics.

Janet Colli: Right. So, you know, we’re probably, you know, I would say that we are some we have had enough intervention at this point in our genetics that you know, there’s again, there’s nothing I can prove, but oh, I, I know wonderful, a few a few little stories that the things that really got my attention when I 20 years ago when I was continuing Ken rains research into the effects of this on people who had had near death or UFO encounters and I included a group in my study people that had both people that had had both near death and some kind of UFO or close close encounter and one on never forget this one person during his near death experience you Going through the tunnel of light and at each side flanking him, or these two beings, we would call greys, right, they were taking him through the tunnel. And then he had a sense of his own body. And he realized he was a grey, okay, he was himself that

Rick Archer: kind of being in human form for this lifetime,

Janet Colli: for this human lifetime. But in on the other side, he again reverted to his more, you know, his, his more resident, state of consciousness and being as a gray. Okay, and so, so that really started me to think well, as, as Joyce said, they’re basically manufacturing bodies, so that enlightened beings can have a human experience. And, you know, I think that, you know, if done in a, with intent to their lineage is we know that and then you fall with you there, lineages of families that have this experience. And given that, you have to think, you know, who are we, you know, what has, where do we come from, some of us come from different places, some of us come from the stars, okay. And so, you know, we, we, so we listen to this, and then I, I was able to write the foreword for a book of Australian and Australian couple. And the woman’s experience was basically that she was, as the title of her book was something like human by De Grey by night, or alien by night, right. And so she would have experiences where she would, you know, find herself at someone’s bedside, and they’d be screaming is, this is one childhood experience. And the next day, they would relate in school, the other person that they had had a, you know, a dream where a monster showed up, and she was saying, it’s me, it’s me, don’t you recognize me. And so she would have, and then she would remember details about the bedroom of the person and realize that she hadn’t in some other form, visiting, you know, out of body at night, you know, other people. And then when her memories and her experiences became conscious, and she realized that her identity was that of, of what we would call an alien being, that her true identity, her more true identity was that so, you know, I started paying attention to these stories to these experiences. Who are we? I have to ask genetically, you know, genetically, are, there’s no question in my mind that we have been impacted and even engineered to act by these beings.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s kind of interesting thought that they’re genetically engineering bodies that are that could be adequate or appropriate, you know, vehicles for more highly evolved souls.

Janet Colli: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it’s hard to it’s hard to disavow that if you read, you know, Joy’s book or even mine, which is partly about her.

Rick Archer: It’s an interesting bits in your book about, you know, the ancient Vedic system of India. And here’s some little bits of had regular diplomatic links with a hierarchy of extraterrestrial and higher dimensional beings. The Puranas, which is a Vedic scripture, refer to 400,000. Human life races living on various planets, among which interbreeding regularly occurs, the human species allegedly descending from the devas. David’s is usually translated as gods, but that could easily mean high more highly evolved beings from elsewhere. In Sanskrit, the devas are referred to as via Imani Khan, meaning travelers in vimanas, vimanas were aerial cars that the bays described in quite some detail, and they’re even pictures of them depicted in various carvings in India. So anyway, it’s yes, like, you know, there was a culture, ancient culture, which apparently was in regular communion with these other cultures as we are with Italy and Germany.

Janet Colli: Yeah, yes. Yes. And I and I think that we are headed in that direction. We are headed in that direction now.

Rick Archer: Which is why I wanted to do this show. I just feel to you even though people might think I’m a weirdo, and you know, there’s a certain segment of my audience, they’ll just, I don’t know, we’ll get some thumbs down. But um, I don’t care. I don’t I’ve never really restrain myself for fear of being labeled a weirdo.

Janet Colli: Well, okay, well, thank you. This is this is very heartening to us, you know? Yeah, it’s It’s I think the timing is just is is now the timing is now for it and there will be those that will thank you. I can tell you that. And any anybody that thinks it’s weird, I don’t know what their spiritual practice. Oh, I know Ken Wilber I have to say Ken Wilber wrote a scathing, you know, he wrote a letter, I think, to the acne reader in which he ridiculed this phenomenon. And I just have to say, you don’t have to go there, you really do not have to? Yeah, I wish I wish he had actually sat down with some experiences such as us before he wrote that. But,

Rick Archer: you know, history is rife with examples of people who’ve taken a fixed position, you know, on this side of the other idea, saying this is the way it is, it can’t be anything other than this. And then, of course, they’ve been proven wrong over time. I mean, there are people who said that, you know, train travel would be lethal, because you can’t move 40 miles an hour, you know, without dying. And there, there are people in the 1800s that were saying, Okay, we’ve pretty much reached the end of technological advancement, nothing significant is going to be developed after this. And you know, so it’s just a mindset. And I really think we have to remain open minded.

Janet Colli: Yeah. You know, and if and so and so, you know, we just, yeah.

Thomas Beck: It’s really, it’s really so clear to me, now we live we live in a self organizing, self sustaining universe. The, the fundamental glue that holds it all together is unconditional love. And that’s where I’m coming from right now. And I, you know, if I had to say I have a goal in my life, is to be able to help people heal emotionally, physically. And for myself, to experience that unconditional love as much as I possibly can. And help other people experience it as well. So that’s sort of my bottom line for where I’m at at this point in my life.

Rick Archer: What the world needs now is love. sweet love.

Janet Colli: Yeah. Yeah. That what is the what did the beings tell Betty and Reyes and those who do not have love have nothing? volve they basically said Love is the answer. The South a

Rick Archer: sermon on the mount.

Janet Colli: Oh, or the Beatles, right? Yeah, right. Oh, yeah.

Rick Archer: Mmm hmm. Just to throw in another point where there’s I mean, we were almost in this is almost like a good wrap up moment. But right now, but there’s something I think even takes it a little bit further. And something you quoted from Joy’s book, where she maintains that any genuinely enlightened human being is aware of the multitude of layers of creation, including those from whence so called aliens emerge, I think that pushes the envelope on what enlightenment or awakening really means, because some people say that, that, that, that sort of awareness or perception has nothing to do with enlightenment. And that it you know, too, as I said, In the beginning, that it could be a distraction or hang up and, and perhaps it could, you know, if one places undue emphasis on it without kind of getting down to the essence of things, and establishing oneself there, but I really think that a full blown spiritual development is going to include a lot more than mere Self Realization, if you can say that.

Janet Colli: Right, right. Yes. Um, yeah, I I asked Nithyananda you know, his work Nithyananda.

Rick Archer: Well, there was a niche and under who was, who was Muktananda, his guru, but obviously, he didn’t

Janet Colli: know. Well, anyway, I did spend time

Rick Archer: in India that there’s some scandal around them. Yes. Yes.

Janet Colli: Yes. Okay. So I tried to communicate with people about this issue, people that were in a guru or enlightened positions and, and try to, you know, elicit some kind of response. And the most you’re, like I said, was Sri Ma, that she said, No one is alien to me. And so, I, I’ve been at one point, I was invested in trying to figure out where the tradition stand with this phenomenon. But at this point, where we’re, we’re, we’re absolutely fine with with our own experience, and we’re teaching out of that. Yeah.

Rick Archer: So Tom, I think Janet and I have been dominating this conversation a little bit too much. You’ve had maybe 20% of it is anything more you’d like to say that’s important to you that you haven’t had a chance to get in? Um,

Thomas Beck: I guess my my experience of late I feel like I’m on a an accelerated asymptotic curve right now. Like I got I got the My earliest experience with cosmic mother. And that gave me You know, I jokingly call it a krill Brain Boost, you know, from the 1950s sci fi, Forbidden Planet was it was, and now I’m at a whole different phase in my process. And, and the, the ability to impact people physically, you know, with with these hands is really, totally unexpected to me. And yeah, the healing and, but yet it’s like it to me it’s like a miracle. And you know that I see that as where I’m going in, in my own work as part of my own work. And it just really convinces me that there is there is hope for the human species, and we have the we have the ability to do things that are, you know, life affirming that we just all we have to do is set our minds to it. And you know, not live in a place of fear, but just absolutely, I’ve, I have experienced that that sense of absolute full on, you know, flame on unconditional love. And it’s, it’s, it’s a mind blow, it’s phenomenal to be in that space. And I you know, there are times when I’ve just created it and, and I want to share that with with people, you know, however I can do that. So I very much appreciate being able to discuss these matters with you who want to sit on a network like this. It’s fantastic. I appreciate the good work you’re doing.

Rick Archer: That kind of brings up a little point, which is that in contemporary spiritual circles, very often cities of any kind are dismissed as irrelevant as a distraction as No. And yet, you know, these extraterrestrials we’ve been talking about have all kinds of cities being able to levitate and walk, go through walls and do amazing things with people, there was even one story where someone reached his hand inside Joy Gilbert’s body and pulled something out. And when I was in the Philippines, I went to watch the psychic healers who purport to be doing that. And I don’t know, it seemed to me that might have been sleight of hand. But I had friends who were doctors who went there for like, a couple months every day and just watched as closely as they wanted, and ended up being convinced that some of these guys at least, are actually doing what it looks like they’re doing reaching in and showing something out of people. So there’s all kinds of possibilities out there. And again, we have to ask the question, What is What does full human potential look like? And full spiritual potential? Is it merely going to be just sort of a realization of the oneness of things? Or will it actually include a blossoming of all kinds of capabilities which we have latent within us?

Janet Colli: And and a phase of, of both? Right? It’s, you know, I know, it’s very important to Tom’s process that he do this energy work now that that’s the natural evolution of his energy work with the being cosmic mother. And so it’s important now everything’s on a case by case basis. So I, I, you know, I don’t view it as a distraction. But, but is a necessary step in the process. And so as we integrate, and, you know, in our work in our work as healers, right, and we integrate these other experiences, there, there’s a time for the work that he’s doing now the energy healing, and and who knows what that will evolve into, but I know it’s important for him now.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think your point about timing is good. Because, I mean, there could be people who don’t have a certain level of maturity and all who would say, Oh, aren’t I God’s gift to humanity, look at this ability I have, you know, and it could end up going to their heads, but with a proper degree of spiritual and emotional and personal maturity, then, you know, these things can be appropriate.

Janet Colli: Absolutely. It’s, again, you work with the process with what’s presenting itself in the best possible way you can, and, you know, try to stay open to guidance so that the evolution that’s natural can occur. And, you know, Tom’s had an active Kundalini process for about 25 years, 20 years. And so that all that energy, you know, this is another phase of its manifestation. Okay, and so, so, you know, we’re just, we try to stay, we try to stay open and not have a, a judgement, that’s a good thing that not have too much of a judgement about this, whether it’s about aliens or or healing or, you know, cities or what is that the judgment itself can shut things down more quickly than anything. So what has

Rick Archer: your what’s been the nature of your Kundalini process, Thomas?

Thomas Beck: I originally began to experience it, it’s got to be 20 years ago, I was doing three hour meditations every night from about 3am to 6am on a regular basis. And I began to Well, my first experience was I got into a state of like apps, I call it the statue mode, where I could sit completely motionless, except for breathing for like, two, three hours at a time. This was phenomenal to me, because I’m a very jumpy kind of guy. And then at some point, it began to express itself as like really intense shaking tremors, you know, whole body tremors. And then it would be like hurricane comes through now the front half of the hurricane was all the tremors and stuff, then there’d be this absolute calmness that would happen for 1530 minutes, right, just a really beautiful blissful state, then the, like the other side of the hurricane would come through. And I would experience Korea’s like very distinct patterns. And the creators are of course, spontaneous body postures, you know, and, and sometimes motions, and my body will do like Balinese dancer kind of thing. It’s like, wow, what is this? It isn’t me. It’s just as energy flowing through me. And so it’s a it’s actually become very, very intense in the last two, three months. But, you know, I’m so used to it now. It’s like, okay, what’s, what’s happening tonight? He’s great. Yeah, yeah,

Rick Archer: that’s a whole nother topic that, you know, the whole interview on and I’m in touch with a couple of people one in Australia, another in Spain, who are going through completely incapacitating horrific Kundalini experiences where they’re basically bedridden, and, you know, frozen in various postures for hours at a time with volcanic energy that they can’t allow, that won’t go all the way up, you know, that it’s stuck. And boy, that really, and if, if world consciousness is rising, and this becomes a little bit more epidemic, this is something that’s really going to have to be dealt with in a more systematic way by more knowledgeable people because these people can’t find doctors who don’t regard them as totally crazy and load them up with Thorazine you know, hey,

Thomas Beck: even what I’m experiencing, you know, I have asked my, my GP and several other doctors just out of a sense of curiosity. They’ve never nobody’s ever heard of the word Kundalini. So I don’t even go there. Right. But there’s nothing that medical science, I think can do anything about this. So I just, I just let it rip. It’s like I’m okay.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, you’re fortunate that it’s, it’s processing fairly smoothly, some people get into much more dire situations.

Thomas Beck: Absolutely. I know. It can be it can be very, very intensive Janet’s had some clients who had really intense, well,

Janet Colli: spiritual emergency that’s rife with Kundalini processes.

Thomas Beck: The mind just seems to keep on going on. Okay. That’s great. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Okay, well, we’ve covered quite a bit. And

Janet Colli: yeah. Oh, wow.

Rick Archer: It’s really fun. Thank you, guys.

Janet Colli: Thank you for such a broad minded, heart based. Communication with us. It’s very, very, I mean, it’s so rare, we have not been able to do this publicly at all in this in this way. So I really thank you for that.

Rick Archer: Well, I’ve been around the block, you know, I’ve been been focusing on this stuff for a long time. And especially since I started doing this show, I’ve talked to a different person every week. And if I if I couldn’t accommodate a wide diversity of perspectives and experiences and give people the benefit of the doubt, I wouldn’t be able to do this. And I’m just naturally inclined to accommodate it. Because I really feel like there’s much more in life than meets the eye. And, you know, In my Father’s house, there are many mansions as Jesus said, they’re just so many different mysteries and marvelous things in the universe that we, you know, generally don’t know anything about. And so I’m really, I really think it’s very important to keep an open mind and not to be gullible. But you know, I take people with a grain of salt, I don’t say, oh, because so and so said, it must be true. But I’m really open to the possibility that it is true.

Thomas Beck: It’s so important to keep this work grounded, you know, that’s why I like to keep a grounded in the science. I read a ton of scientific journal articles, you know, and to keep a grounded in my meditation. No, these are things that people have been doing for 1000s of years to help awaken you know, so it’s like, okay, so we’re introducing another element into this from outside of this planet, but it’s like, what, why can’t

Janet Colli: Why not? Yeah, I

Rick Archer: think Steven Spielberg and George Lucas have prepared us for that. Ron Howard and yeah,

Janet Colli: yeah. Are we prepared them? Yeah, it goes back and forth. I also I’d like to just thank the the woman, Giovanna, Joe Johanna, who who are really put this whole show in process when she recommended us. So thank you. Thank you, dear.

Rick Archer: Yeah, thank you, John. And speaking of that, we have a recommendation system for inviting guests. And we’ve shut it down for a while, because they’re just so many requests. And Irene was spending a couple hours a day just looking through all these things. But we’ll open it up again before too long, and we’ll notify people when it’s open. So thank you so much for this. And thank you, and thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching Oh, as always, I’ll put up a page on BatGap You know, about this interview with links to Thomas and, and Janet’s website and books and any other relevant information. And, you know, you can get in touch with

Janet Colli: him. I did want to say Shree am three M that you interviewed is a wonderful corollary to this show. We watched it, and we were, we knew we were heading in the right direction. So if anybody wants to see his also in conjunction with our interview, that would be lovely.

Rick Archer: Yeah, he’s a really nice guy. I was just in Santa Cruz, California, doing conducting a thing with Francis Bennett and Adi Shanti, which we’ll be posting soon, some woman came up to me afterwards and said to him, I’m going to India, he was Triana, thank you so much. It’s lovely connecting people like that. Yeah, he was a good man, I recommend his autobiography. And I’d recommend your books. You know, there’s three different ones here. I’ll link to them. But I really enjoyed reading them. And people found this interesting, I think they’ll find the books well worth their time.

Janet Colli: Thank you very much.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So let me make a couple of general wrap up points that I always make, you know, that you’ve been listening or watching to an interview, which is part of an ongoing series. And if you want to check out previous ones, just go to BatGap comm. And you can find them all under the past interviews menu, categorized in various ways. If you sign up for the audio, podcast, download, you’ll download hundreds of episodes and you can listen to them on your, I think or Stitcher or whatever. And there’s a Donate button, we rely on that support in order to make this happen. So this consumes most of our time here. And some other things if you just check out the menus, and you’ll just see some it’s all pretty obvious. Just explore the menus for a few minutes and you’ll see what what we have to offer BatGap Calm. So thanks for listening or watching um, I have like three or four interviews kind of in process right now, which have already been done. I’m not sure in what order, they’re going to be released. So I won’t announce what the next one is going to be. But there’s a bit of a flurry right now because I was just out in California and did a bunch of stuff live. So stay tuned for that. And we’ll see you for the next one. Thanks, Alison. Janet, thank you fine.