Laurie Moore 2nd Interview Transcript

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Laurie Moore 2nd Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest today is more in person. We’re out at the science and non duality conference in California or outdoors, obviously, you’re going to hear a jet or two going over maybe I interviewed Laurie about a year ago. And we exchanged a few emails before I came out to the conference. And she indicated that her thinking evolved over the course of a year. And we might want to have a conversation while we’re out here. Like probably we’ll be doing two or three other interviews while we’re out here, also, so you’ll be seeing those. So Laurie, welcome. Thank you, thanks for driving over. So what’s changed in the past year,

Laurie Moore: you know, when I spoke to you last, my main message, and my main invitation to people was simply to return to this depth of love this step of peace, this step in which there can be a resonance and experience of the connectedness of all and everything. And fundamentally, I still feel that’s what we’re called back to what we yearn for, and to be so focused on that, that it overlooks the reality of the many other aspects of consciousness that we have to operate in, to live in at this time is a bit of a oversight or a bit of an escape our a bit of denial. And so now, when people are coming to dialogue with me, and they want assistance, or they want help, and they’re really pointing to some aspects of consciousness in which they’re revolving in which they’re living, I tend to just value whatever aspect of consciousness they’re experiencing, and go from that point.

Rick Archer: So you’re saying that earlier on, you were focusing on currently unmanifest quality to the exclusion of the manifest, and no, your air embroidered your, your, your kind of a territory, so to speak, to incorporate the whole gamut, the whole range more fully.

Laurie Moore:  So yeah,

Rick Archer: this is actually a traditional hang up, I’ve been discovering, because it’s one of the themes that comes up frequently in interviews. And so if you look at it from different angles, they’re even back in the Upanishads. There’s some verse in the Chandogya Upanishad, I think, where some sage says to someone, you know, this Brahman of yours is only one footed. In other words, you’re able to kind of like grokked, the, the absolute value of it, and you haven’t really incorporated the full range. And I think it’s something that’s endemic in the non dual community these days, and it’s also something that many non dual teachers such as Jeff Foster and Bentinho Massaro and others have kind of progressed through and then out of.

Laurie Moore: Yeah, well, we we obviously live in many states of consciousness, both as individuals and ourselves, and how we participate and cooperate with each other. And right now, probably a lot of us are rethinking about our overall government system of how we participate with each other. What have we bred from our choice to be a capitalistic society? And I’m not here really to comment on capitalism or socialism. I have my own views, but but we have to look at what have we bred from what we’ve chosen. And if spirituality becomes something that we need to separate ourselves in a community or separate ourselves solo, or deny a lot of what’s going on around us? What good does it do if it doesn’t bring us back to kindness and an intelligence that evolves us into a system that’s serving everybody? What’s the point?

Rick Archer: Yeah, so you’re saying spirituality is not a sort of a pilot’s? Can I sort of thing has pragmatic application or it should?

Laurie Moore: Yeah, yeah. And I found with myself that when I was in a lot of states of oneness, when that Grace had taken me there, it consumed me, and I felt that’s all that mattered. But it didn’t fully meet challenges that came to me in my personal life that I had to attend to. And so I said, Hey, wait a minute. There’s kind of a humbling about that. People are in all kinds of situations and need to focus on as I was saying, the consciousness in which they are needing to operate in any moment, and that whole day you might have to be in different states. of consciousness. So when we start to idealize spirituality and talk about oneness or unconditional, there’s many moments during the day when that’s not where we are. And when we’re challenged by certain interactions or situations, whether they’re personal or societal or family, and and then what is so important is, how do we work with the oneness state, that deep oneness state and the reality of duality? That’s, that’s included?

Rick Archer: Would you say that it’s not an either or situation that it’s not like you have to be either in oneness or dealing with practical matters. But you can. And this is sort of a leading question because I mean, obviously, this is what I believe, but you can integrate a stabilized oneness and enjoy that state. There’s a verse in The Gita it says Yogastha kuru karmani, which means established in yogo, which means oneness, perform action, establishing not like, enjoy it for a while lose it, and get into action, but living living in oneness, do what needs to be done.

Laurie Moore: Yes. And that’s always, for me, that’s always been the goal, to deepen, to deepen. And then to bring that out into the world into the service intimate interaction in which I live.

Rick Archer: I’m going to be interviewing Llewelyn Vaughn-Lee later this next month, I guess. And he’s written a book about spiritual ecology. And the last sand conference, there was a sort of interesting dialogue that took place between two other teachers. I guess I won’t name names at this point. But, you know, one of them was saying, the world is an illusion, you know, what is it? What is what an ecological issues don’t really interest me. And the other guy was saying, they got the interesting, you know, I mean, it’s important in a weekend, we shouldn’t use non duality as a way of de emphasizing critical problems. And in fact, I think this is going to be Loyless point in that interview. In fact, spiritual awakening may very well be the critical component that can bring solutions to these problems ultimately,

Laurie Moore: For me, I always was interested in the world, I was interested in ecology, I was interested in cross cultural relations and world peace. And, and I was always based in a, a deeper place that felt like the foundation. And certainly, there’s a perspective and a seeing that I see a lot of the time where I see everything just floating by we’re all imagining we’re giving value to things that have value we’re, we’re passing through all that’s happening is some sensation, some motions and sounds. And in the depth of my heart, I experienced that it’s true. And I participate in a world where everyone’s affected. And if everyone’s not eating, something’s wrong with the whole group. If everyone’s not getting good health care, something’s wrong with the whole group, if it’s destroying the plants and the animals, so that the Earth no longer is in a harmonious existence, we have problems. And so I would say like you that as more and more people return to this deeper state, in the heart to this place of unconditional we have solutions that can come that we don’t even know yet that to live more in a question of not knowing is a really great thing. I’ve been in so many spiritual communities where, where this deep peace is valued, and then I observe horrible behaviors like cutthroat behavior. So I’m thinking, what’s the point of this? If it’s not kindness, if it’s not learning to respect one another?

Rick Archer: Yeah. John Doe wrote that poem, the famous lines, you know, no man is an island and then a little bit later back, not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for the meaning. If like I just said, somebody’s starving, somebody’s being forced into prostitution, you know, a child, or you know, all these horrible things that happened in the world. It’s, like it or not, ultimately, we can’t isolate ourselves from these things. Even if you think you’re isolating yourself, it’s actually you that that is happening to us on a deeper level.

Laurie Moore: Yes. And how we deal with all these challenges is really overwhelming and perplexing. And I know for myself, many times, I would wake up in the morning and say, you know, I don’t know what to do about it. And so, of course, we each have a role that we’re drawn to, we don’t know why it’s a mystery, we end up doing actions and participating in a way unique to each of our personalities. But we’re part of this big system. And for me, I personally feel very challenged right now, but I am part of a big system. Yes, I would like to wake up every day and just meditate and share with people. And I was doing that for a while and I said hey, I can’t pay my bills. And so then I did some I went back to doing some like promotion, quote unquote, and I didn’t feel good about it. You know, I felt something inside me got a little more jaded because my mind was in a different place. But then I thought, well, I’m being really blatantly honest. On the inner that, because I’m assuming a lot of people go through this kind of thing. And then I thought, Okay, well then do I, I’ll just go back, I’ll keep praying and meditating that I just stay in the state. And, you know, so many teachers say that will just guide you and it will all be done well. That’s not my experience, or many. I need to take care of myself in the world of duality. And my wish would be for everyone to have that opportunity.

Rick Archer: So sounds kind of like this is still a work in progress for you, or have you resolved this to a certain to a great extent,

Laurie Moore: the resolution, it’s a work in process, the resolution is a lot of humbling and forgiveness for the great imperfection of participating as a human.

Rick Archer: When it so, you know, you mentioned that your perspective shifted a lot in the past year, was there some event or something which precipitated that? Or was it just an kind of a natural, gradual, incremental maturation that, you know, just meant it began to dawn on you is

Laurie Moore: it shifted, because originally, I wanted to take as much of the 12 months in silence, I had planned that. Yeah, I planned it like a gift to myself. And then so many things occurred that that wasn’t, it would have been kind of foolish to do that I had to attend to practical matters. But in that time, the beginning where I had some time, in the light of silence, I started to note different states of consciousness that I was cycling through. And one state was the first one that we’ve addressed. There’s just all there’s, there’s no word for it. There is no difference between me in that book, and you and my thought, then there is another state where there’s condition. And there’s an impetus and there’s an intention. And then there’s another state where words get added to that as a mode of expression. And then there’s another state where you’re a little lost, because you’ve gone more into the words than the state. And then there’s actions that come from the words and then you can just be really lost and all that, which can be fine. They’re good people doing wonderful things in that, that that illusion. And, and then I noticed the unconditional states like the unconditional peace state, and then conditional Joy state, like flavors are different qualities within that. But then I said, What societies had really done well with each other people who just went into the oneness state, or people who were also perfecting very practical states. And so really valuing and thinking about Ken Wilber his work and how he, he pointed out how so all this is, is necessary and any effects how evolution occurs,

Rick Archer: the thought that I keep coming back to as you’re talking, is that it doesn’t have to be an either or situation that the name of the game really is to grow in the ability to simultaneously function. And all these states or stage or levels, or if you want to call them levels, because each has its significance and its importance. And, you know, dealing with certain specific practical matters or worldly problems or whatever, doesn’t it’s not a cop out, it’s not like, if you’re gonna do that, then you’re not serious about London, well, there’s something in fact, you know, it’s was, I think, through, you know, go ahead and build castles in the air, that’s where they belong, just put foundations on. So this non dual state that we’re all talking about at this conference, is really the foundation. Yes. And, you know, I totally want to go ahead and respond.

Laurie Moore: I, one of my favorite mentors, Ganga G’s invitation has already rang very true with me, because no matter what I’m doing, or how I’m serving or participating, when I when I fully open myself to this sensational experience within that, it seems to just melt it back in the oneness, but I’m not removing myself from the participation. So I would say that, as we delve deeper into this foundational piece, that is the basis of us, and remain in the participation, if that’s our calling, some people’s calling is to remove themselves and I support that 100% We have to go with whatever we’re called to. We find that the fabric, the quality, the way in which we relate, carries a deeper resonance of peace. But what I began to question for the first time this last year was does it carry a deeper resonance of kindness and cooperation and what’s needed in duality, because in duality, which does exist, we each have a separate ego and we each have the opportunity to keep noting what our own personality is stuck on or assuming for our own narcissistic needs. That’s true of everyone, there’s so many meet after need out of subtle need that can affect what we believe is right or true. That’s the invitation on Earth to keep letting more and more of that go to keep noticing more and more of that. And to, to stay in a deepening place of, of the Peace is a great, it’s a great opportunity that we have.

Rick Archer: Well, it’s quite a couple of questions in there. One is how do we stay there? You know, because people find that they get caught up in worldly concerns, and they lose it, you know, and we’re talking here about simultaneously being in that state while dealing with the worldly concerns. So what ways have you found to kind of integrate and stabilize the simultaneity of the depth and the surface values of life,

Laurie Moore: I started using prayer a lot more, I was a natural meditator from childhood, I would just go into these deep states where I had to be in silence, I had no choice, I loved it. And I’ve always been like that. And meditation wasn’t a practice. It’s just what I love,

Rick Archer: just came naturally to you

Laurie Moore: But prayer was what I felt was for me what I started using more and more, this last year, as the meeting point, between any contradiction I could find, basically just asking for help. Oh, now I’m really frustrated. I’m not at all what I’m preaching help.

Rick Archer: So by prayer you sort of mean not just having the sort of the deep awareness, but introducing specific intentions into that, or specific desires or requests.

Laurie Moore: Yes, yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And have you found that fruitful,

Laurie Moore: I have, I have not found it to be as quiet and silent as just the simple meditation silent state that’s so lovingly, wonderfully, they’re just drop into, but I have found it to be raising me to more honest level of what I’m not, and what it means not at all that. Yeah, it’s brought like just great joy and compassion for just about everyone, because a lot of judgments they had on myself, and when you have judgments on yourself, they get extended to others, even if quietly, expectation kind of started to wilt. And I just saw, Wow, I don’t know who anyone is, I’m just here with each person in the moment, we are in this moment.

Rick Archer: Interesting thing. You know, if, if we pray, let’s say from a surface level of the mind, then it’s going to have a certain effect, like maybe, you know, to use an example from physics, like, if you take a pebble and throw it, it’s gonna have a certain effect. But if you could pray from the deeper levels of the mind, or deeper levels of being or whatever, those are intrinsically far more powerful. And so it’s like taking all of the sense of destructive implication, which is not what I intended. But if you can unleash the sort of atomic or nuclear level of energy of that pebble, you know, it can probably fuel an entire city for a year or something, you can really extract all the energy from it. So I think what you’re suggesting is that, you know, you’ve since childhood had recourse to the one this level of awareness, whatever we call it, but now you’re you’ve been kind of more intentionally entertaining desires or intentions on that deeper level. And thereby perhaps having much, having those be much more impactful than if you were just sort of entertaining service. put words in your mouth.

Laurie Moore: Yeah, I would say you’re talking about the level of creation. And I feel that with the adjustment for me was using my creation more for kind of just an accept more of an acceptance of okay, I had this idea was born in the 60s, I felt we were creating real peace, I don’t even know what royalties is now, I thought in 2012, it was a sec, like we made mistakes, and then we’re gonna solve it. Now that seems really simplistic. But somehow that’s what I thought and then I thought when Obama was elected, that was gonna sound like everyone was going to come forward with all these new solutions. So things didn’t turn out as I thought, so it took me back to Okay, well, the only universe I can contribute to is the one I’m standing in right now. And I have no idea what this is this this earth this enactment, this time in history and the whole giant all the planets solar systems, how it’s going to turn out but that I had to operate more from rather than this expectation like we are going to have this happen and created and we’ll all love each other and everyone be full of respect and goodness. And just to I have no idea except now all I can do is turn to what what feels to be The most important intention for this moment now with no idea of what’s going to happen.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And what I get from that is that, you know, you’ve kind of realized that you’re not running the universe. And so, you know, don’t use a role which is not yours, which even having such expectations is doing in a way, but kind of like fully surrender to the role, which is yours, which will be shown to you at each stage in the game.

Laurie Moore: Yeah. And I did think we were a giant web. So it wasn’t so much that, you know, my desire would play out. But I thought so many people were here to bring about a new shift, a new ecology, a new, a new palette, political way, new ways. Of course, there are new ways, but there’s so much destruction going on right now. It’s just my idea was just naive. Yeah, wasn’t what happened?

Rick Archer: Well, you know, it’s happening, I think, but it’s got its own time schedule. I was talking to Menas Kafatos this morning at breakfast. He’s a physicist, and he was talking about scientists such as Stephen Hawking, who are kind of atheistic. And there, there are certain things which book the hell out of them about what physics understands about the universe? Because it shall it shakes their atheism. And I forget, I’ll interview him. And we’ll get into it in details. I can’t do justice to what he was saying. But basically, one of the principles was sort of multiverse principle. There are, there are some things about this universe that we live in, which are just so miraculously, right. And if if things are off by just one little Iota, you know, in a one to so many zeroes difference in the universe wouldn’t work. And so it implies that there’s an intelligence governing the universe. This really scares people for whom that paradigm doesn’t fit. And so they’ve come up with this multiverse theory that there will be like a perfectly infinite number of universes. And just by chance, like monkeys typing and enough monkeys typing to produce one of them producing Shakespeare, just by chance, we happen to live in a universe, which is kind of worked out. But, but so there is no intelligence involved. It’s just kind of lucky, we lucked out that this one sort of works out of all the Dunn’s. But what manis and I were agreeing on is that intelligence is everywhere. And if there are multiple universes, those are working out, too, and are governed by the same intelligence governing this one. And what I’m getting at, in a roundabout way, bear with me, I had coffee for the first time of the year this morning. Cuz I didn’t sleep much last night, because I got anyway, is he said that corporations are actually kind of surreptitiously funding some of these atheists who are espousing the this kind of incentive, non intelligent view of the universe, then we’re thinking, why would they do that? They don’t do anything except for profit. And so why would they feel that propagating the propagation of the notion that we’re swimming in a sea of intelligence with jeopardize their profit in some way. And the thought was, perhaps that if enough people wake up to that understanding, based upon their experience, not just philosophically, it’s going to produce a sea change in collective consciousness. And if collective consciousness shifts sufficiently, there are all kinds of very entrenched things which you and I would agree don’t deserve to exist, which are going to have the rug pulled out from under them, which will have a very difficult time existing, so many, so many aspects of our economy, really have no purpose of any kind of benign, any Bonanza, they’re just destructive of life of the Keystone pipeline, the cigarette industry, the alcohol industry, I mean, just the gun industry, so many things we could mention. No, they’re just destructive of life. And if consciousness were raised enough, they would have no reason to exist, and consciously or unconsciously, that the perpetrators of those things, perhaps realize that they’re, they’re being threatened by a change in society, which will have gone on long enough, but

Laurie Moore: thank you for going on about hope and faith in a way because you’re saying that as people, as more and more people recognize the immense intelligence, it’s mind boggling, everything works, how a plant grows, how you and I are talking, how you even that, and I even got here, I mean, 100 years ago, you and I would not know we exist and here we are in San Jose, you live in Iowa. Talking about this, we’re so fortunate and as more and more People are in touch with the bounty and grace and just what can be created when we tune in to this? The gift of life and the intelligence running everything in it is benevolent. And I mean, I’ve seen so many unexplainable synchronicities and goodness. And that, yes, we can create human participation at large in a much different way.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So, you know, what you’re saying a few minutes ago about being kind of naively optimistic. You know, maybe a woman was gonna do it, maybe this is gonna do it. Everything’s gonna change by, you know, such as 2012, or something like that. Don’t I’m not saying just do but people in general, I don’t think we should just because those those. Those hopes and dreams don’t pan out on our time. One, don’t get pessimists. Oh,

Laurie Moore: Amelia, is fine.

Rick Archer: I’m thinking in our lifetime, massive change. We’re already we’re seeing symptoms of it. And the pace of it seems to be accelerating exponentially.

Laurie Moore:  Yeah.

Rick Archer: You know,

Laurie Moore: there’s a lot of good being grown. I’m feeling a little cynical lately. But I’m bouncing back. Right. Yeah,

Rick Archer: I mean, the evidence is there. And it was just this thing I said about the corporations, you know, even they’re aware of it, people who you wouldn’t expect to, to sort of be aware of such things are feeling beginning to feel threatened? You know, that’s a concern. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you never

Laurie Moore: know who’s gonna jump out of the woodwork and change their mind, I mean, somebody who’s putting themselves in a position to influence many or have power in a way that is destructive, can suddenly that same degree of energy they’re using, sometimes people switch, they flip, changes, I mean, all that energy they’ve grown, you suddenly use in the opposite direction for good. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And social changes sometimes happen quite abruptly, we look at the fall of the Berlin Wall, the collapse of the Soviet Union, if those were beneficial Soviet Oh, they seem to have been beneficial, at least the collapse of the Berlin Wall. And, you know, it’s like, people, people sort of have this ADD, they take for granted that the world they live in is kind of the way it’s always been, and always will be, you know, but as you were just learning to go back 100 years, and look at what we’re doing now, today, jet flying over with, we’re like, this is like a whole futuristic thing. But we take it for granted. So what why didn’t we like 50 years from now? 100 years from now? Yeah.

Laurie Moore: I would love to imagine that. It’s a world where everyone has food, and everyone has shelter, and everyone has health care, and every country and everyone has freedom of expression. And everyone has an ability, and everyone is consciously considering kindness and care and thoughtfulness and respect among all species, an important value. That’s so simple. If every single person making a prayer and intention, if for the next 10 minutes, every single person on the globe decided that was more important than anything that could happen within 24 hours, I’m convinced

Rick Archer: they’re getting pie in the sky again, because isn’t gonna do that for the next 10 minutes. It’s kind of gonna grow in a more organic, natural way. And there will still be people doing crazy things, but, but there’s kind of a groundswell that’s growing.

Laurie Moore: Yeah. And sometimes when lots and lots of people build something together, the change comes later, my father, and I were talking, he’s in his 80s. So it’s, I’ve been making a point to talk to him more and more about his life, because he won’t be around forever. And he worked for the Kennedy administration. And he was reminiscing about Martin Luther King’s March, and how it it might not have happened and how it did happen, and just the tremendous energy that came about and the waves and repercussions years later. And so as you speak, I’m thinking about how when we really joined together, lots of us with a particular intention, how it can abruptly shift something, and that the goodness of that can come about wave after wave for years to come.

Rick Archer: What was the thing Margaret Mead said about, you know, small group of committed individuals really cool. I know what you mean, like the 100th Monkey thing. Like, that’s what actually does bring about change. It’s usually not a top down kind of thing. Probably never where somehow everybody wants done such and such like sits for the next 10 minutes. But it’s it’s more kind of like a small percentage starts doing something and then 100th Monkey thing propagates in general that gets us back to where we were half an hour ago, which is that if that small percentage is working from a more fundamental level, then they have leverage Whereas this is on the political level and the macroeconomic level those seem powerful to us. But that’s not actually where the leverage is,

Laurie Moore: isn’t it true where you live in Fairfield, Iowa with all the meditators that the crime rate has went down drastically when all the meditation started,

Rick Archer: not just in Fairfield, but they’ve done all these experiments where they, I was part of that part of it, where we went to, you know, places like Iran, just before the Shah left and, you know, Nicaraguan and certain trouble spots, Israel, and there was a war going on with Lebanon at that time. And that, and they did all sorts of statistical analysis. And, I mean, maybe they were using the research as a PR thing, but it actually got published in some peer reviewed journals. And the skeptics couldn’t debunk it. But apparently, you know, there was a clear correlation between these large groups of people meditating in these places, and reduction in war deaths, all crimes and all kinds of other social indicators. And, you know, we’re sitting in a hotel or whatever with our eyes closed. So it’s not like we were intermingling with the population or smiling, or something, it was more like we were effecting a change in an underlying field, which propagated throughout the environment, resulted in a very organic, deep way, changes in behavioral patterns of the people who shared that field. When

Laurie Moore: I work with people, I now work in my home, I worked in offices for years, so I can be in a certain energy field. And if a lot of people report a similar kind of challenge, at the same time, I look to any place in myself where I can make a shift. And I make the shift, and I find that people come in and they make the shift. That’s not, and I don’t want this to be understood. I didn’t make their shift. There’s something about energy when we go to the deepest source of our intention when we go back to that place of peace, rather than talking about it, or how are we going to fix it? That’s secondary, and that’s needed, but fundamentally changing an energetic intention. And you have a group of people going to this deep peace. Others didn’t know. But then the research showed that many situations changed around that. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah, so I guess one question might be, what will be the tipping point for the world? If I really want to see, will there be a tipping point? Or will it just be a sort of a gradual, continual, continual change? Or could there could there come a time when, you know, we have a global equivalent of the Berlin Wall falling or, you know, Soviet Union, collapsing, you know, we’re there’s just sort of this massive shift on a global level, at a certain point, one enough, momentum has been built up.

Laurie Moore: And maybe there’ll be a lot of, maybe by necessity, a lot more community will start to happen. I know, in the 70s, and 80s, I lived in lots of communities coming in spiritual communities, maybe by necessity physically, that will start to happen, that people will have to rely on each other more in those ways. I mean, I see that sprouting up, I’ve seen a lot of countries where people have started to create more community type living now. And maybe from those power sources, different of that kind of power, peaceful power, all over more and more of those will give rise to something more global.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And, you know, we’re speaking a little bit hypothetically here, but I think, you know, there are examples of this stuff happening. Yeah. You know, so it’s not, it’s not entirely maybe, it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s building up.

Laurie Moore: Yeah. And if you Google intentional community, there’s a kind of new intentional community growing all over the, maybe a resurgence of what was happening in the 60s and 70s, and in many places in many countries right now.

Rick Archer: Okay, well, what else shall we touch upon in the time remaining, going around the same point in various angles, but um, so anything we haven’t any kind of angle we haven’t really dealt with, I’d like to do

Laurie Moore: want to just re emphasize that if we want world peace, if we want new structures, if we want a different way of harmonizing with one another, it really does come down to how we interact within ourselves and thus towards others. Because there is a there is somewhat of a war in each human, I think, inherently that we’re born with there. There are aspects of each of ourselves that will not be preferable to others and there are aspects to ourselves that will cause pain for herself. And so really looking to the face embrace, he’ll be present with those aspects of ourselves. Maybe just quietly, we don’t need to tell everyone what they are. We can have forums and that can be healing too. Either way. is vital is to me. Very, very important.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, to me, it seems self evident. I take it for granted but individual pieces is a unit of world peace and we’d kind of looked at political reasons why there isn’t pace here and there and economic reasons. And those things have their relevancy, as we said in the beginning, and perhaps things need to be done on those levels. But if things are merely done on those levels without individual pace somehow being established, that’s probably a fool’s errand. And,

Laurie Moore: yeah, it becomes philosophy and back to when I thought Obama getting in, it wasn’t that I thought Obama would do it. I thought, who I thought Obama was was, I feel like this is a reflection of where we are conscious, so many people, and he will represent so many people, and I’m not commenting anything on Obama, even. Everyone’s very complicated. He’s a human being, but I thought he’s the reflection of so many. If he’s getting that each of us is doing such deep work.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah, well, I was saying, for instance, for instance, is sitting here that, you know, maybe it wasn’t you, but you can, you know, you can put Jesus Christ and the presidency, and it would still be a flop and it respects just be just because that, you know, the leader of any nation is to such a great degree governed by the collective consciousness of that nation.

Laurie Moore: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. So what has happened since has to do with everyone? Yeah. Everyone

Rick Archer: can do the whole thing. Oh, no, no, no, I live in Iowa, you know, and on politicians come through Iowa. And we see them on a real nitty gritty level, because it’s the first caucus in the country and the first. So I’ve had the opportunity to run into Obama three times now and ask him a couple of questions. And last time I said to him, I said, we log in, don’t let the turkeys get you down. And he laughed and said, there’s a lot of them out there, and they just keep on gobbling up the presidency is like trying to drink from a fire hose. There’s so much going on. But the point for this interview is that a government leader like that can only do so much given the collective consciousness of the nation is trying to go.

Laurie Moore: And so that brings us back to ourselves. Because, of course, we like to think about the globe and society and the country, I do, but I’m responsible for when I’m thinking when I’m feeling and how I’m artistically interacting with that. And, and what we are thinking and feeling. You know, a lot of people say we can’t control what we’re thinking and feeling we can’t control it. But what our basis is, I’ve noticed and my body and mind, the basis of my interaction with the with the universe with the light with whatever you want to call my source with the source, is effecting greatly the thoughts, feelings and physical sensations that then go through me as a being all day long. And I consider them to be barometers and monitors of what where am I embedding my deepest intention. So if my deepest intention is world peace, which has to be personal peace, my thoughts and feelings, and the physical sensations inside me, greatly reflect that. And this is not a popular thing to say, because it can be misinterpreted as I’m blaming people for their illnesses, which I’m not at all, because I did go through a few years were severely ill. And I didn’t know if I would live. And it was very unexpected, because I had a very healthy lifestyle. But what I learned from it because I had to intricately interact with my own thoughts and feelings quietly. In in states that had contained very uncomfortable feelings was my thoughts and feelings were very much affected by where I was embedding my deepest intentions. And little things I didn’t notice throughout the day, little little conversations I might be having, in my mind that were not peaceful, where I brought in other people into my imagination would actually take place in my body as a sensation that could be very uplifting and healing or could be very painful. And a lot of the work I’ve done with people where they’ve experienced these deep emotional healings, and said there’s been physical results has come from that understanding that we’re operating a machine our soul is placed in the machine and and all day long. We’re putting effects on it that’s going to cause physical or emotional or mental turmoil or peace. And once again, I’m not blaming anyone for their illnesses, we’re all going to have a motion on physic physical disharmony so that we can re shift by where we’re embedding our basic consciousness and our attention.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And you can be the most enlightened guy in the world and still get cancer Ramana Maharshi died of cancer. Yeah, some of these other ones. So it doesn’t mean that you know, he did something. Anything else? Body is the body. Yeah, it’s, it’s vulnerable to all kinds of things. Yes, and

Laurie Moore: the body has genetic imprints, but there’s an opportunity regardless of the outcome. What I had to do is I had to interact with myself at deeper and deeper levels of what I would experienced this piece. And my conversations had to be more and more positive. And with everything, my private inner conversations, and I just kept measuring and noticing the differences and how I was experiencing life as a result of that, that thoughts, they might say, Oh, these thoughts just pass through my mind. But what I was focused on most of my time in my life effects the thoughts that are passing through my mind, that’s my responsibility, then if I have a great life, or I have a challenging life, or I get cancer, I’m the healthiest person in the world that secondary I wish for everyone to be healthy. And I wish to have a great life for everyone. But, but going, just going back repeatedly, to what what I am valuing beyond what I say and value proved important showed me that this is an instrument, a biofeedback instrument. And as everybody’s shifting these biofeedback instruments, and we see a shift in more around us, and what we perceive who we attract what’s going on what we think’s happening,

Rick Archer: yeah, I remember what I was gonna say, which is that you know, if, if, if God if you wish to use that word, or intelligence in a really is sort of on the present, then that permeates every cell, every particle of our being, and nothing is happening arbitrarily or capriciously, and another fun to throw in, if if there really is a sort of evolutionary purpose to creation, then ultimately, everything is in service of an evolutionary purpose. And if it doesn’t appear to be so then you’re just not zoomed back, far out enough to say that the perspective of that intelligence, which is orchestrating all this, so I think this relates to your point where if you know various things that go through difficulties or illnesses or you know, stuff that you find within yourself, all that is sort of instrumental ultimately, in the evolution of this instrument, I think he uses the word instrument to serve that greater purpose

Laurie Moore: instrumentals. The word artistically instrumental is the word.

Rick Archer: Yeah. No. Let’s talk about animals for a minute. Because in our last interview went nuts, mostly when we talked about, and you and I kept going back and forth. We couldn’t agree. And I thought about this over the past year, and you mentioned Ken Wilber earlier, you know, from what I read of Ken Wilber. I like listening to him, I like his work. And one of his things that he talks about is when it comes to pre trans fallacy, and pre rational, trans rational, and the way he describes it, as I understand it, is that animals and children and, you know, have characteristics of innocence and spontaneity and even wisdom that seem very much like Enlightenment, but they’re actually in a pre rational stage of development. And that, on the other side of the development of rationality, we have the trans rational phase, where he might find saints to take it to the greatest extreme, who also have that innocence and wisdom and spontaneity, but they’ve traversed a whole range of of development, which the animals and the children and whatnot have not yet traversed. And yet, the two can often be mistaken or interposed. It can, you know, Christ said something about the like little children or you won’t enter the kingdom of heaven. But he didn’t mean going back to a pre rational phase of development. He meant, like the trans rational way developing the kind of innocence and spontaneity that that children and animals display. So that was my conclusion about your whole thing within this is that I kind of felt like, perhaps you were, you know, succumbing to the pre trans fallacy and assuming that animals have this sort of enlightened status, and I can think of from bottles to what I’m saying right now that even I would agree with. So I’m not saying this is some kind of put down or an absolute, you know,

Laurie Moore: I understand what you’re saying that it could be sensibly concluded that animals are spontaneous and animal and children are spontaneous just because of an innocence because they haven’t developed through all the different developmental stages that At the quote unquote highest stage, maybe a saint or a master would now exhibit this innocence of spontaneity, but from a very different conscious place. But I would just ask people to stay in the question of do you really know who anyone is? And is it possible that a very evolved soul might show up in a giraffe a person and and, and so in that looks quite evolved to because they talk the talk and you’ll find that around all the kinds of spiritual New Age seminars, set songs, communities, some people talk the talk and if you really watch what they’re doing, what their intentions are, if they’re not so great. Okay, thank you very Blackstairs for that so my experience having talked to many animals and people is that there’s different souls in different states of evolution and all kinds of plants, animals, people

Rick Archer: know when you say that all animals, every squirrel, every whatever, is some kind of being in an animal body, or would you say that it’s just something that can happen and occasionally run into?

Laurie Moore: I would say, No, not every animal is in that state. But all animals are in a more, they’re in a more aware state of their connectedness to all life. They’re working at different levels of service or ego or, or something else. But what all animals are in aware state of their connectedness. So like no animals that fantasizing or imagining that they are separate, that their personalities, all that matters, that they’re small worlds is all that matters.

Rick Archer: Okay. There’s some of that article in the paper the other day about chickens being much more intelligent than we have realized. Yeah. Did you see the

Laurie Moore: chickens that it’s coming out about more and more species? The Ravens?

Rick Archer: Yeah, it was, I guess it was sort of the implication was we shouldn’t be putting them in these horrible little confinement cups. You know, raising them was just sort of products that they should be treated with compassion, because the more we realize,

Laurie Moore: yeah, well, it’s there’s an anthropological question that if you go to another country, and they have very different customs, and you assume you understand, and you’re not understanding at all the depth behind those customs, the meaning behind this customs, so what we’re finding out more and more about animals, is we don’t speak their language, they’re observing ours domestic animals, we’re not speaking all the intricacies, their languages are just as complicated their intelligence just as I mean, whales, IQs are way off our charts. And I believe they’re gonna find that out about cats and chickens and rabbits, and everyone in time, we’re just not observant enough. If you observe any animal, they might, a cat will meow in so many different ways. They have a language, they have body language, they, we just missed it, we think we’re smarter, I think we’re probably at the lowest level of intelligence of most of the animals.

Rick Archer: And that’s because, you know, when you pass through the rational things going from pre rational to trans rational, it’s a minefield, because you’re given freewill. And you know, you are able to separate yourself from nature, and you begin to make choices and you can really screw up and we do as a species. But it’s just it’s kind of like teenagers, you know, which they do, okay, when they’re little kids, and then they get in a teenage phase, and they start taking drugs and doing all these crazy things and to self destructive, and then hopefully, they make it through that phase and get a little bit more responsible again. So human beings are kind of like that they’re in the teenage phase. But that is not to say that animals are in the adults, they’re still innocent children face having not gone through their teenage years of evolution, metaphorically speaking.

Laurie Moore: Well, two things, I’m not sure that animals aren’t faced with ethical choices, animals contemplate animals face choices, it is different than humans. And another I want to bring up is that I’ve been in a state sometimes where it is clear to me that we’re actually not making as many choices as we think. And I know I’m contradicting something I said before, because I don’t live in that state, and maybe Ramana lived in that state. And I’m very rarely in that state. But there’s some times I’m in a state where it’s pretty clear that I have not chosen anything, nothing. However, in duality, I have to live as a responsible person. I don’t that’s a mystery to me how these different states exist at once, but they do

Rick Archer: it in duality, and do make choices in a certain realm of creation where where we do have egos matter how cosmic Well, we make choices or face consequences of those choices and so on.

Laurie Moore: It appears that way from one perspective and then from another state and consciousness appears something very different is going on that there’s a source that’s floating through everything and has designed each being very differently. And the being doesn’t have so much say and what they are as we tend to think they don’t Nobody could argue it, I can only observe the mystery and stick to what comes into my consciousness.

Rick Archer: Know what you’re saying earlier about this being an instrument and refining the instrument and, and serving more fully with this instrument and so on. As an instrument, you know, it’s very sophisticated compared to the amount of a chicken, you know, I mean, your prefrontal cortex and the whole the whole nervous system and everything is far more sophisticated and complex and evolved instrument, then chicken who just says little garbanzo brain, and, you know, and much more primitive nervous system by comparison, so, but you know, that is not to say that the consciousness of the chicken fundamentally is any different than the consciousness of Laurie and all the rest of the human beings, we’re all one consciousness, but not consciousness, you know, a phrase I’ve said a million times rule sense organs of the infinite, and there’s a chicken sense organ, and there’s the human sense organ, and there’s the common sense organ, and all the sense organs have different functions. And in a sense, you know, the eyes are no more important than the nose, no more important than the ears, they all just serve different purposes. So on some level, all these things have their importance.

Laurie Moore: Yeah. And the mind sight that the highest stage of evolution, before you were not in a body anymore, and you were in a start was that you would be a tree or a plant, where you didn’t make choices of well, you couldn’t be distracted in any way you had reached such a state of awakened Ness, that you were just placed in a body that’s completely supported that

Rick Archer: it has meaning I have a Hindu bias, you know, having grown up our spiritual speaking from a Hindu thing, and to remember where she was saying, people were asking about vegetarianism many years, he’s saying, if you have to eat someone, then eat less or evolve life. And so his perspective was that the cabbage is less evolved than a cow, you know, for instance, and so because of him, I guess I guess it would be considered you know, greater sedimentary, more evolved the life form that the more of a front to, to the nature it is to kill it for purposes of nutrition.

Laurie Moore: I do know that. In India, there are some religions where when you die, you can have your body placed on the tower for it. Yeah. And I wish I could do that. I don’t know if I could orchestrate California. Well. You know, it’s, it’s wonderful how there’s so many viewpoints and perspectives, and we all have different beliefs.

Rick Archer: And, you know, and I’m aware that I’m not saying that I’ve got the truth here. And, you know, you don’t or something, I’m gonna say, the differences in our perspective, make for some infant interesting conversation. But who knows what’s really happening? I mean, okay, I think we’ve exhausted the animal conversation. Just wanted to touch on since we’re talking about so much in the previous interview. So the way to complete with

Laurie Moore: this gratitude, just really appreciate being here appreciate being able to share this with the people who are listening, appreciate. Thank you for letting me go through my cynical wave came up this morning, I felt why am I having an interview when I’m making these. But I think it was a good thing, because I think that we all are can be used as a good thing because we all go through this. And now’s the time that we can go deeper into our love deeper into our gratitude deeper into the question, what do we really wish to contribute to this planet that we all share? So

Rick Archer: let me make my usual concluding remarks. There have been watching an interview with Dr. Laurie Moore. And this interview is one in a continuing series. There have been nearly 200 of them so far. There will be 200 more and more than that, if I may say. So you can find them all archived on Bat gap. There also you’ll find, well, there’s two ways of finding them. They’re alphabetical listing and chronological listing. I have about 1000 people literally on the waiting list to have either been recommended to me or have contacted me themselves. And I apologize to anyone who I have not yet been able to schedule. I hear my my standard response to people is, Oh, great. Sounds wonderful. I’d really like to do it and I’ll put you on the list and you know, Hold your breath because it may take a while before we can schedule it. But it’s it’s by no means meant to be sort of a judgment on your worthiness to be interviewed or the worthiness of the person you may have recommended to me to interview. Alright, that was a bit of a diversion. But I just want to say the alternative find on A place to be notified by email each time a new interview is posted as a tab there, a donate button, which, by virtue of which I’m able to be at this conference today. So I really appreciate people donating, if and when they can. And a discussion group H. Each interview has its own discussion group in this forum that we’ve set up and the discussion has become quite lovely. One thing is to see the discussions that are in there, you may need to register on the site as a way of registering somebody just brought to my attention the other day that they they went into the discussion for David Godman and didn’t see any discussion. And then they registered. And so pages and pages of discussion. So we’ll try and fix that so that you can see the discussion, even without registering. But in the meanwhile, if you go there, and you kind of register to see the discussion. There’s also an audio podcast, you know, people don’t have time to sit in front of their computers and watch long interviews. But if, if you’d like to just listen to the audio, you’ll find a link in every interview. For the audio podcast, you can subscribe on iTunes. And also have a you know more about Laurie on her page when I put up this interview, the bio of her links to her website, books, and so on. If you’d like to get in touch with Lori, and do sort of sessions with people over Skype as well as in person and phone and you’re kind of an animal communicator. And we had a little session with you with talking about our animals and the first one especially the it did was kind of uncanny. I mean, you came up with some stuff that would have been hard to guess, was impressive. So thanks for listening or watching and we’ll see you next time next time is going to be sold because I have two or three of these planned for way during my visit here at the conference. Thanks