Lisa Rose Transcript

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Lisa Rose Interview

RICK: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually Awakening people have done nearly 600 of them now. If this is new to you, and you would like to check out previous ones, please go to bat gap comm bat gap and look under the past interviews menu. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site. And there’s also a page of alternatives for people who don’t want to use PayPal. My guest today is Lisa Rose. Welcome, Lisa. Thank you Welcome. Lisa would fall into the category of people who aren’t teachers who haven’t written a book who are not trying to be famous as far as I know, but who have had a very profound spiritual awakening and a very interesting story to tell about it. And we’d like to invite a few of those people whenever we can find them. I’m going to just read a few little bits from the short bio that she sent me but I want her to do most of the elaborating. So here’s what I’ll just read. All I ever did was emphatically declare, I want to know God. Now. It wasn’t long before I was fast tracked into a reality I didn’t know existed, an inner world full of extraordinary gifts and ultimately liberation of the mind. Regeneration occurred February 2016, followed by three full years of bliss. The state of consciousness, I am convinced is that of a newborn. I wallowed in that cocoon, integrating the expansion that I sometimes felt might never end until the desire emerged to step back out into the world. Well monumentally profound in numerous aspects, I have always felt it to be a pure to, to be purely a transition, that the best is yet to come. So these are three of those three little disjointed, you know, snippets of what she sent me, but I would, you know, much prefer that she fill in all the details than me read a big long thing. So Lisa, where shall we start?

LISA: Well, how about if I start by just communicating the experience, because that’ll get the flow going? Because it was pretty exciting. And then we’ll, we’ll talk about some other aspects of you know, how I arrived at the experience and what is has occurred since Yes, okay. The, what has been called as a spiritual awakening, I have another word for it. I mentioned it in the bio I use regeneration or regeneration of my consciousness. But it was referred to as a spiritual awakening after it occurred and I began researching it and they, the word Kundalini kept coming up and I researched kundalini awakening. So it occurred one evening after approximately three years of intense contemplation. I never knew anything about meditation or prayer. I like like Rick said, I was completely irrevocably done with human suffering. And I really wanted to know God and I stated that to somebody very specifically and, and emphatically, and I got a laptop and I wound up on a path that led me down. Quantum Theory and meditative science, Mind Science meditative science, and I fixed upon a a pamphlet written back in the early 1900s called minds silent partner, By Dr. James Porter Mills, and in there was a formula to regenerate one’s consciousness from The normal human race consciousness to divine consciousness. And we do that through the I am statement of being and contemplating our mission infinite and eternal nature. So little bit about what I was doing that led up to the experience having no idea about a spiritual community or spiritual awakening or anything. So when, when evening, as I sat down to contemplate, actually study, I happen to be almost taking a course of Ramana Maharshi his teachings, and we’ll talk a little bit about that in just a few minutes, but sat down to sat down to study looked at a picture of, of Ramana Maharshi just kind of like this off the book that I was studying. And because I was having some difficulty, physiologically, with a lot of pressure in my system, a lot of a lot of energy that was rising up in my system. I was in a state myself of suffering, right. And I looked at him and I question to myself, Rama, how, you know, cuz he, we were studying his life history. And, and, and at this point in time, we were only day eight into the course. And I was learning about him as a young man, right? And learn that he was, had had some sort of experience and ran off to the mountains and, and he wasn’t taking care of his body, people had to take care of him. And the first thing I thought of was, how could you possibly do this to your beautiful young body? I’m suffering, how is it you can possibly just lay in the gutters was the way it was written, you know, and have people take care of you. And Rick, I honestly threw the book across the bed. In total disgust I was, and I’m wondering to myself, Why am I studying this material?

LISA: You know, I’ll get back to my James Porter Mills, meditations right to wedding house. I tossed the book across the band. I had opened up a bottle of beer because I just finished a two hour conversation with some people that I was speaking the whole time, took a swig of the beer set the beer down. And this is when the experience occurred. So I have my, I’m sitting up on the bed, my legs are stretched out. And suddenly, a flash sensation came over my entire body instantly, as I describe it to people, as if every particle of my body stood at attention, as if meeting its maker. It was it was an incredible sensation. But in the very next moment, my eyes clamped shut, not of my own volition, I did not plant my eyes shut. And they stayed shut through the entire experience clamped right? Then something slid back in the middle of my head, which was an incredibly euphoric sensation, incredibly euphoric. And then this energy this pressure that had been building up this rising energy due to my three years of contemplation started to gush through the crown of my heart forehead, or excuse me, the crown of my head like a like a fire hose is the way I describe it. Very, very powerful. You I liken it sometimes to if you’re riding in the backseat of a vehicle and somebody in a rolls down their window, you know that that intense winds thing? Yeah, yeah, that yeah, that fluttering sensation. But anyhow, it’s this energy is gushing through the crown of my head at that power. And I knew something. Of course, by this time, that was very profound happening happening to me, all I could think of was how great it was because the pressure had been building up so so much. A few moments into things and just a few moments into things. Remember, my eyes are clamped shut. A holographic image of Ramana Maharshi appeared behind I say my eyes were closed but it first appeared right here in the middle of my forehead a holographic image of Ramana this this image of him just the buttons

RICK: I’d see that but yeah, okay. Just just just his head. Yes, the best

LISA: Yes, just the head up very familiar picture of him. So, it is a holographic image black and white. And, and he says in a it was kind of a metallic voice. With an Indian accent. It was a male Indian accent a little metallic iron tone that I that I would have expected. But he said, feel good. And, and and not having, you know I’m inside, I’m shaking my head, I’m not shaking my head. But inside I’m agreeing. And he says, enjoy. And the image starts to fade. And I said don’t go. Of course I’m not saying this. It was right in that moment that I realized I’m speaking telepathically it was in my mind that I was speaking as don’t go. The next thing I knew the image, of course, my eyes are clamped shut, appeared again behind just my left eye. There’s some significance to that. Later, I’ll talk a little bit about that. But the image and but in this time is not no longer a full body image is laying. You’ve seen pictures of him on the chassis

RICK: in the run down with

LISA: Yeah, with Yeah, yeah, kind of like that. But he wasn’t like that his legs, his arms were at his side. And he’s looking at me, and he says, however long you stay is all that I am. And I literally was floored because that is a song phrase, a phrase of a song that that I would sing at the top of my lungs, maybe a decade earlier from a song by a group called the sick puppies called all the same. And if you go back and look at those, those words, they they obviously have a lot of a lot of meaning. But however long you stay is all that I am. And I of course, am still in bewilderment at what is happening, the energy is still gushing out of my head. And there were several things that that were said that, you know, just communicating back and forth. telepathically, which was really cool. At one point in time, and I won’t go into detail because it’s a lot of his doesn’t is not that significant, except for a couple of things. When there was one time when I asked a question telepathically, and when I’d look at him, sometimes I would switch my my vision or my attention to my right eye. Okay. And I couldn’t see him in my left eye. So I’m looking at him, I asked him a question. And the image his head had turned away. And I knew that the the question that I asked was one that he wasn’t going to answer at all. And I turned and looked into my right eye thinking what I must have, you know, a must have done the most spiritually biggest faux pas ever Ramana Maharshi? A such a question. I didn’t know what what to do what to say I was kind of embarrassed. Right? And and then he did, then something comes out of my mouth, but I did not. I did not think this thought Rick, it was if he was compassionate enough with me. There was a thought that was put into my head that then I asked the next question to him, it was really kind of interesting, because I’m over here and total embarrassment. And the next thing I know, I’m asking him a question that that that was put into my head that was really cool. I thought that was really cool. Several other things happened. One was, I’m sitting there and again, energy still gushing out of the middle of my head and, and, and

LISA: I get an itch on the outside of my left eyelid. That wouldn’t go away. And it’s, you know, it’s, I’m looking at him I’m staring at him. He’s got this grin on his face. And he looks at me and says it shit because I’m thinking if I pitch it, right, all this is gonna, the whole thing is gonna blow up and and it’s gonna go away. So I was doing my best but he knew that he knew what was going on. And he said itches so i It’s it. I was surprised really that I could lift my hand up. My arms had been at my side and my body I couldn’t even feel my body right. I’m still in my body by the way all this time. Okay, I I never left my body. And and, and so I itch it and he’s still there. We continued on a little bit further in the communication until it suddenly decided it was time to go. He said, time for you to contemplate now, which was really interesting. You He uses the word contemplate, right? Knowing I’ve never meditated a day in my life, I knew nothing about meditation, I was contemplating all those three years. Right. And, and, and, and as he’s partying, and he’s fading, and he’s kind of walking into me, so I can feel my head looking, you know, into myself, right. And he’s walking, and he says, and he says, Hold on, stay inside. And that too, is a nother phrase from a song that I would sing at the top of my lungs for over a decade, two or three times a day, I just loved it, believe it or not, it’s a heavy metal song. By it, I’m not really a heavy metal person, but I love this song by a band called tool called parabola. And it speaks to a very spiritual happening where the spirit of of life is rising up through the the songwriter, so Romine is giving me this song phrase, hold on, stay inside. And so that was that was that was pretty incredible. And then and then the image completely faded. And, and I was I was left to enjoy the the remainder of the experience and, and when all the energy stopped gushing out at the top of my head, my eyes came open very naturally, everything was fine. And I and I grabbed a notebook and, and I and I and I wrote everything down best as I could remember. So I didn’t do my homework that night. My Ramana Maharshi homework, but it was it was it was quite profound. It lasted maybe 1012 minutes, I guess the beer was still cold that headset over on the side of the bed. And the so wildly extraordinary out of the ordinary. I think it probably took almost a month, Rick of me just thinking about it, remembering it, rereading my notes to you know, try to grasp any, any significance of it at all. So, gorgeous experience, the immediately afterwards, there weren’t any physiological changes, nothing occurred that was out of the ordinary, like, see unicorns, you know, like your capabilities are nothing of that nature. I, my nothing, nothing really changed the, the, in fact, it took almost three or four months before all that pressure that I was feeling in my upper body, right began to begin to dissipate. And so but not to say that my life hasn’t totally changed. And there’s been a lot that’s happened since but I that that gets that gets me going. It gets me in that state that flow to share. So thank you for letting me great.

RICK: Yeah, we’ll unpack all that. And while we’re on this note, a question came in from Rahul in India. He said, you know, Lisa said she was in bliss for three years after this 2016 She mentions Kundalini? Has she been able to work well with her Kundalini or does she struggled with the energy I

LISA: was struggling with the energy. Throughout the three years of contemplation and probably after I had spoken with the Bonnie Greenwell, psychotherapist, Kundalini expert. And of course, I didn’t speak to Bonnie until after the full three years of bliss, I pretty much took ramen as suggestion to hold on and stay inside meaning don’t go the way I interpreted it. Don’t go outside of yourself to try to find out what happened to you. And there was a good reason for that because I I wasn’t experiencing the bliss right away. It actually came very gradually. Right. We’ll talk about that in a minute. But to answer Paul’s question, three years afterwards, when I felt like I was done, ready, I contacted Bonnie Greenwell to begin to understand what is Kundalini, this beautiful life energy is what I call it. And in talking through some things with her, we went back through some of my earlier years for about age 2030 and 40 and realized that perhaps I’ve been having the Kundalini symptoms all those years but not knowing what they not knowing what they were. Heart palpitations, we’ll speak about that in just a little bit. Sensations tingling sensations throughout my body. So to answer his question I, because I didn’t know physiologically what was happening to me, I had no orientation at all to Hinduism or the life energy. I, I simply kept after it. One of the most interesting things along the way that three years of contemplation was that as the more I contemplated in what I contemplated on was our omniscient and infinite and eternal nature, and along with that came this sense of knowing, knowing they call it the Gnosis, the sense of knowing that everything was going to be okay. That that all of this is happening for a reason. And of course, what else was I going to do, but to continue to and this is where I had learned about the, what I call the art of surrender through Ramana Maharshi. Very briefly, I’d, I’d heard, I’d heard about surrender. And I, and I just latched on to that word, and learned to in every single moment, especially since a lot of this was happening to me physically right, to just surrender into it. I’m not going to the doctors, okay, I’m not taking any special medication for any of this. And I’m working through because it was a kept building up. So it started from the top of my head work downward, in through my temples into my jaw, I knew something was happening. Again, it’s an it’s a knowing an art of surrender, and it’s coming from this beautiful life energy that is moving through me and it’s giving me the confidence, the faith right to continue to pursue my spiritual practice at all costs. So yeah, thanks for the question.

RICK: Here’s another one that came in a Kundalini related one from probably he he or she pronounces John from France. Could Lisa shed shed some light on how to approach or nourish the Kundalini process, so it unfolds harmoniously and leads to realization or awakening? For me it’s been evolving and phases intense Korea’s Korea’s or you know, body motions that sometimes are caused by Coonley. Just telling for the audience then, harmonious Mudra is mergers are these like, you know, various hand symbols and stuff that might be made. Some Soma dropping, which maybe you can explain it or energy intensifying yet running smoother, like my vessel is cleaner. Meditation deepens from one day to another, but existential pain is intense. That’s the question.

LISA: Oh, boy, because I didn’t know about Kundalini, or life energy, or auras, or what do we call? Bio fields, I knew nothing about energy. I knew nothing about energy and what was happening to me. So all I knew was to surrender to it. And I think Bonnie Greenwell would better be able to explain and answer that question. She’s worked with to two to 3000 people who have had all kinds of Kundalini related symptoms, right. I had a couple of them that that this questioner has has asked, but I only knew surrender, meaning. And I can’t even say that I knew to relax into it. There’s no relaxing into it. Sometimes other than I did, I did hike a lot. I did hike a lot to help to release that energy. And it always made me it always made me feel better. But I was always back to my contemplative practice. So that by the end of the evening, my head is, you know, still kind of, kind of, you know, full of that beautiful energy. I, one of the things I’d like to talk about a little bit later on is the lore and the mysticism. I think that’s associated with this energy that perhaps would make it easier for some some people to approach it full heartedly and to embrace it and to surrender to it. Yeah,

RICK: yeah. Let me just mention that I’ve interviewed Bonnie Greenwell twice. You can find her in the past interviews menus on that gap. And also Joan, she Peter Harrigan, who’s a really great Kundalini expert and Danny Atman, and a bunch of others as a categorical index and there’s a Kundalini category. If you look at that, you’ll see all the people I’ve interviewed that talk specifically about that. Lawrence. Edwards was another one. So anyway, there’s a lot to be found there. And there’s also some great books, Bonnie has written a book or two, John Harrigan has written a very comprehensive book about Kundalini, which goes into it in great, great detail. So if a person wants to learn, you know more about it, just in terms of their understanding, those are some good resources.

LISA: Yeah, yeah. Bonnie was very helpful in in, you know, when I again after the three years of bliss, right, um, look, I was looking back I’m like, huh, I had, I had no, I had no idea. And of course, some of the not just physical but psychological manifestations of the Kundalini energy. And again, even according to Bonnie, I mean, on Bonnie’s website, the the, she has the word surrender, right there right there on the front page of her website. Because it is a What’s your Higher Self it is your it is your life energy that’s trying to break through blockages our conditionings right that we have subjected ourselves students since we were children, and sometimes unknowingly sometimes knowingly. And it’s really just your your yourself your higher self is here right with us at all times, trying to break through those blockages. So it’s not here to frighten you. It’s not here to hold you back. Or, or make anything more difficult for you it might seem so in the time, at the time, it’s happening, trust me, but it will break through it will find a way to break through if you’re fully surrender Yeah. To a very, very loving very intelligent, energy life energy.

RICK: It can be frightening. Of course, if a person has no idea what it is, and they start having these symptoms, like you I mean, 20 years, yeah, when the doctors taking pills. Yeah, this and that. lots lots of and it could even be more intense than that. I mean, sometimes people well, if you read Gopi Krishna his book and you know, the hell that he went through for a long time. So yeah, you know, it depends on a lot of things. I imagine a lot of variables such as the intensity of the flow and the solidity of the blockages and a number of those, if you get into Joan Hagen’s work, there’s all sorts of different routes that the Kundalini can take, and sometimes it can get off on a tangent and get get sort of stuck in a deflected rising as they call it. So it’s a whole science and there’s a lot to know about it.

LISA: Well, let’s talk about the three years of Yeah, that sounds Yeah, after all. Well, after the gorgeous experience, I really kind of was it what didn’t know what to expect? Although I did pay attention and stay with it. So the three

RICK: years of bliss danced right after this Ramana Maharshi on the bed with the Biro. I

LISA: kinda I can’t Yeah, it. It surfaced, Rick, honestly, I didn’t recognize it. until probably about six months into it. I happen to be a spiritual retreat. I thought, oh, there’s a spiritual community out there. I had no idea right? I went to a spiritual retreat, Regina Don acres with awakening together been on? Yes, he has been on bat gap. And we had, we had an exercise where we were to close our eyes and manifest anger within us, right, or some negative human emotion. And I closed my eyes. For the life of me, I couldn’t, I couldn’t generate and, you know, negative human human emotion at all. Right? And that was the first time I recognize I’m like, you know, I, I don’t have any negative human emotions at all. And that was six months, and I kept riding that wave actually, for 18 months. So it wasn’t just negative human emotion that that I was no longer experiencing. It was even some positive human emotion things like you know, joy and laughter and things like that. They were all kind of still there. But what I was trying to explain is that this this bliss, this bliss, kind of trumps all human emotion, I call it original human emotion. In original consciousness, it it’s as if I was a, I were a a newborn, and you know how a child maybe by about the age of six months old starts to you know, the face opens up in the eyes opened up and it’s smiling and giggling. And, you know, by the time he’s 18 months old, he’s just just running around just a happy thing. And, and there were some things like, I would be able to stand at the edge of 100 foot cliff, and you know how in, you know, you know how it is you look down, and you’re like, Oh, my God, just stay away from that. No, I was, whoa, you know, I could, I could honestly dive into that cliff, just like a little 18 month old child would just, you know, just just plunge off of a cliff. Certain things like that sensations of fear, or animosities, or things like that, that you are trying to stay away from, I didn’t have those sensations. And I found it to be the most extraordinary thing ever. I thought I, you know, everything would just slide off me, like Teflon, right. And, and so it rose up ever so gently. And I call it a bell curve. And after about 18 months, right, then just as gently as the bliss surfaced, it fell away in an in exactly another 18 months. So three, four years of bliss. And, and as it was falling away, don’t think for a moment, I wasn’t sad. And it’s the first time I felt the negative human emotion was a little bit of sadness that the bliss was falling away. And as it continued to fall away, you’re like, Where’s where’s my bliss? And the negative human emotions have never returned, never returned. And this was happening between 2016 17 and 18. I could be faced with a negative situation, like what we’re all going through right now. Right? And, you know, I just see it entirely differently. Now. the only the only emotion that I ever feel anymore sometimes is some frustration, some frustration at some things. But

LISA: a as as the bliss was falling away, and I’m wondering why is falling away? I realized that it’s because during during those three during that period, let’s say I’m up to about 24 months in bliss. I realize I have no desires whatsoever. None. I we sold the house, closed down the businesses, my husband was ready to retire. Anyway, we’ve been married 40 years, and it had been operating the homebuilding business for about 15 years together, right. And moved, just sold the house moved to Colorado, took a fly fishing. I didn’t have a care in the world, I didn’t have a desire to even speak out or I mean, things were still working through me. I was not done yet. I was still in the oven. Right? I was still baking this whole process. They call it integrating, integrating the process. And and and now I see why. I mean, had you spoke to me at directly after the experience, I would have said, well, I had this experience, big deal, right? But or at How about at the peak of the bliss? I would have I would have sounded like a bliss ninny. I seriously there was there was the total detachment from the world total detachment. And so I can see how in the days of let’s say Ramana, Maharshi or Bindo, that that error, where we just run to the mountains, we we create ashram around us because we can barely I say, barely barely take care of ourselves. Thank God for my husband. I call him my ashram. Because if it weren’t for him, right? I would have I just needed him when especially here in the Western United States. You know, things became very, very difficult things I didn’t want to do, like, go shopping anymore. I didn’t care about cooking anymore. It just it just falls away. You’re just in bliss. So beautiful, beautiful period of bliss, and it fell away. And as it was falling away, I began to realize and this is part of the wisdom of this beautiful life energy that continues to rise up into your consciousness, right? That tells you that there’s a reason why the bliss is subsiding. And there’s a reason and a purpose. And here I am right now to speak to everybody about it. If the bliss did not go away, I wouldn’t be here speaking about it and being able to share with all the world. Yeah. A

RICK: few thoughts on all this first question, what does your husband think about all this?

LISA: Well, it wasn’t until after the bliss that I, that I did I spoke to him about it. And, of course, you know, deer in the headlight, right? And so we choose the moments carefully and, and the circumstance anything something was going on with him, you know, he’s just No, no, not really, I think, you know, he, I was already had been spending a lot of time by my by myself in, in, in contemplation. You know, I stopped a lot of group outings that that we were doing group big group events, we lived on a golf course community and I stopped doing large, you know, tournaments, stopped doing boating boating activity, I ended up kayaking a lot by myself hiking a lot by myself. So, you know, it was fairly gradual shifts in my behavior, but nothing really out of the ordinary. I didn’t watch TV much to begin with anyway. But from that point forward, since I took up contemplation, there was no TV I didn’t watch TV and probably a decade. So other than golf, I love but but yeah, it’s it you he’s been again, OSH rom without even knowing it. The you know, we’ve had such a good relationship. Since we know children. We’ve had a very, very good relationship work together for 15 years. It was kind of interesting. That the, probably about it. And again, I would choose my moments, Rick, it’s used the circumstances and find that right moment to say a little bit about something right. And when I hit that point where I was telling him about Ramana, Maharshi coming in. Yeah, it’s like, okay, so, like, that might have been a little a little a little too premature. But it was only last summer. So, you know, probably good going on four and a half years after, after the experience, that we’re having dinner across from each other at the dinner table. And I was trying to open up again about the experience, and he set his fork down. And he looks at me, and he has a glazed look in his eyes. And well, it was it was what it was it because he says Lisa, I honestly do not have any idea what you’re talking about. And he’s it was a it was a very heartfelt he wants so much to understand. Right. And it you know, it was in that moment that I realize, Oh my gosh, even in these two years that, you know, because people who’ve, if we’ve never thought about God, or spirit in terms of consciousness, or the principle of our being, okay, first cause a lot of lot of terminology that I was using that I really didn’t realize that, you know, there, there’s a huge segment of the population, at least here in the West, who’ve never even considered relating God, our Creator to consciousness. And that’s when I realized I’m like, okay, all right, Kim, Would it help if I write a paper? Yes, please. And I said, Kim, by the way, I recently found some science behind the bliss that I told you about, can I include that? He said, Oh, please, anything, anything, if you can put it in writing that maybe I can grasp this a lot better. And we can talk about it, you know, at a level that that that I can understand. So that’s what I did, Rick, and that is actually the paper that I wrote to you. It was out of inspiration to my lifelong partner who wasn’t understanding a word that I said, and I will if he can’t understand what I’m saying, then I need to put it in writing because a lot of his has a has a very science orientation, basic fundamental science, so it’s good now he’s read the paper and he’s opened up to a lot of concepts, like consciousness and higher self, and is actually starting to work on a meditative practice of his own. So there we go.

RICK: I read I reread one just this morning called from existence to life. Is that the one that you’re referring to? It’s like 12 pages long.

LISA: Yes, that’s my page. Okay, good.

RICK: If you want I can actually link to it on the website and people can read it. Okay, get into more details.

LISA: Yeah, the one thing about that is if you put a warning on it because the people other than you, okay, and some of the science people that I’ve sent it to so I have foundations. It is not a truth teaching. People expect that whatever comes out of me is going to be nothing but true teaching. And I’ve not gotten to that point. Yeah, it is. It is a description of the experience. I’m trying to put it in layman’s terms. I, I specifically put it in the context of a the step by step process. This is what I did

RICK: know is a good accountant went step by step, as he say, and I’ll put it up there. And because it might get into some stuff that we hadn’t talked that we don’t talk about today. And you know, people enjoy reading it. They haven’t published a book. So they might as well read that plus at the end, there’s some science stuff that we probably won’t get into and such.

LISA: Well, I don’t know, but let me let me just the reason why I sent it to you. Okay, I went to the backcap site, which is just gorgeous wreck. It is gorgeous. i i That’s where I found found Bonnie Greenwell. And I love a lot of the interviews there. And I typed in the word. Yeah, I forget what it was consciousness or something, by the way, I came upon John Hoagland interview that you had, right? Gorgeous, I thought about sending him my paper as well. But the reason why I sent you the paper, I’d come across Dean Reagan’s most recent interview with you. And at the very end of the two hours, if I may, quote, because it was inspired to send you the paper. He says, The reason why you would do science in the domain of consciousness, is to figure out who and what we are, and to test whether the idea that we live in a nihilistic universe is correct.

RICK: Yeah, that’s really fundamental and extremely important.

LISA: Yep. What he says, so if there’s any evidence that we’re not living in a random universe, that’s completely pointless, pointless, and you can get there rationally without having to dive into religion. That would help everyone. Yeah, great. So that’s what my paper is about. It’s, it’s, there was there’s no religion whatsoever in in my practices and what I was doing, there was religion in my consciousness, still Christian religion in my consciousness. But my practice that I was pursuing was one of regenerating my consciousness, from a human race consciousness to divine consciousness. So I have the step by step procedure right there in the paper. And hopefully, if it doesn’t, if it only just helps one person, right? Yeah. And yeah, yeah, maybe we can prove it in the lab.

RICK: I don’t think we’re putting down religion here. A religious religion has a lot of cool stuff in it, but it seems to be sorely lacking in experience. And if you just have the sort of all the trappings of religion without the experience that inspired the religion in the first place. It’s kind of like, I don’t know, it’s kind of empty. It’s like a dead body that lost its spirit or something.

LISA: It’s good. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s what you bring to it. But I never brought anything to it. I I never, never engaged in in a religious practice whatsoever. Prayer meditation,

RICK: right? Amazing. You could have hung out in Texas so long. It must have been the local pariah.

LISA: Just a golf. Golf.

RICK: Yeah. Well, before we get too far from your bliss, experience, one conjecture I had, as you were describing it was that, you know, like, let’s just use it as a metaphor. If If a person’s a multimillionaire, let’s say, Jeff Bezos or something like that, then you know, he could gain 100 bucks here lose 100 bucks there, and he wouldn’t even notice it. He still gaining losing the 100 bucks, but they’re just it’s just so completely over, eclipsed by his wealth, that it doesn’t notice it. But if a person is like homeless and on welfare and all, gaining or losing 100 bucks would be a really big deal. You know, it would sort of rock his world one way or the other. So I think that we could maybe say that with regard to you know, this upwelling of bliss and this fullness you were experiencing, you know, well, firstly, I think that the maybe he can even complete my thought but the, the ups and downs of life just don’t rock us that much. Because the fullness is so great by comparison with the game the little joys or sorrows, which may not even be little but by comparison with the bliss they are and so the There’s an equanimity. You know, equanimity is a big word and spiritual development. But it’s not something that you try to do. It’s something that happens when the fullness is genuine and well enough established.

LISA: Yeah. Let’s, let’s, that’s it’s a good, it’s a good, good place to, to talk about what was actually happening from a physiological standpoint. And I’ve done some research. So after the bliss, I, after the three year bliss, period, gorgeous, you know, I decided to step out and research Kundalini, I talked to Bonnie, that seemed to be appropriate, there was a lot of information out there. But you know, and I, and I, and I hooked up with emerging sciences foundation, I’m on their mailing list, okay. Okay, emerging sciences Foundation, read some of Gopi Christus. works. But you know, that was all through 2019. So early 2020, when we were all having to go sit in our homes, or in our bunkers, or bunkers, I, you know, I sat with this, the whole kundalini awakening thing that everybody was saying that I had had, and I thought, you know, I set out to regenerate my consciousness. So what, whatever the world is calling it, you know, I’m looking at it as consciousness regeneration. And I’m going to emphasize that a number of a number of times, it’s kind of important. So as I began to, and began to research and by research, Rick, by this time, the wisdom that is coming through you, you put a call out to the universe, and things just the very next day, you know, things would show up on the internet, right? You know how it is. It’s just, it’s just, it was phenomenal. And the pace, then the development along the way of my understanding of what had actually happened to me physiologically, started to unfold very, very quickly, one of the first things that I heard was a, I guess there was a week long seminar, by unify the world. And, yeah, there were just like 15, there was kind of like the shift network or something like that, where they had some 50 presenters. And so I tuned into it, a lot of it in the background. Until I don’t know, I haven’t been lifting weights or something like that. And in the background was was, was this this, this gentleman with white hair and white beard and mustache, a very older gentleman, and he began speaking about the importance of the peak bliss experience. And I’m like, what, you know, so I tuned in, and I’m, and he’s going on, about the physics of bliss. The physics of Kundalini, he’s actually saying these words, the physics of bliss, right, in the importance of compassion, and intention, it all these things that that I experienced, that led up to what led up to the the, the regeneration, I’ll call it right. And as I studied, his name is Dan winter. And as I studied Dan Winters, physics, which look, I’ve only ever had high school biology and, and chemistry, right. And that was some a few decades ago, several decades ago. So when it came to trying to study physics, I did have to engage a young man from Hawaii. Thank you, Jason, for helping me to, to unpack a lot of the physics within a relatively short period of time. But bottom line, I’ll make it really simple, if I may, because I think a lot of this will come circle back around, bringing, I think, some practical foundation to what we’re calling this Kundalini life energy. And there’s a lot of mystery around it. Okay. But if I could just explain what was happening, and it’s a page taken from can we see this?

RICK: Yes. And we can see that and I am also going to put that I mean, I’m going to link to that document you sent me in that also, that document contains that graphic so people will be able to see it better. Yeah.

LISA: Yeah. But if I can just put it over to the side here. Okay. So in general, we’re a lot a lot of us are living in fear, and we have a problem. plasma, a light plasma body is its term, sometimes the bio field is termed sometimes aura. But it’s a, a conscious, light body that surrounds our physical body. And when we’re living in fear, right, it’s definitely contracted. And we all know I think by now what it means to be living in fear, these lower levels of consciousness that generate negative human emotion, warring at each other, killing each other, right? It’s just, it’s just a very contracted way of, of living and working with with, with our, with our energy, and I didn’t know any of this, I was definitely living in fear for 55 years of my life, right. But then what I learned when I stated my intention to know God, I was done with human suffering, my own in particular, right, but others. There were many, many things happening to my family, family and friends in particular, around this gorgeous lake. I lived on that in the past, Rick, I would probably just say, well, that’s life. You know, that’s the ups and downs of life, that we all have our problems, right. But I began to look at the situations that my, my, my family and friends were experiencing, and I began to bring the compassion for what was happening into my heart, okay, into my heart, and I did start to feel some real love for my brethren. And then somewhere along the way, somebody passes me and this is the first time I had met. This, Regina. Yes, right. Regina doc Dinah Akers, er, yeah, the, the, the Holy Spirit’s interpretation of the New Testament. After only a three months contemplation of that beautiful writing my energy, right, had expanded, I began to know and identify identification with something other than your small self, really helps to prompt write some new beginnings and some, some expansion in your consciousness. Remember, your consciousness is not just what you feel is in your mind, right? What we experience consciousness, but it’s actually a lot of this, this, these the arc the torus, right going on around you, right and you’re, you’re expanding your consciousness, you are beginning to know myself as through through the Regina is teaching as divine love, and divine peace, divine peace is actually there is even physics, Dan Winters is written up physics as to what is happening in the heart, when we bring in compassion, and we find peace in our hearts for everything that is going on around us, no matter if there are wildfires going on, or earthquakes or you know,

RICK: eventually elections.

LISA: Like, the peace, the peace in your heart becomes like that, that Teflon I spoke about, right. And as I continued to contemplate for about three months, my end see myself identify myself as I am divine peace, I am divine love, we start to generate the heart brain coherence. So the heart has opened up, right, and the 20 years of heart palpitation that I had been experiencing, because I was over here in fear. I would say within within two or three days after about three months, but I was finally feeling like, hey, this bar palpitation that I had every single day for 20 years are gone. God throughout my meds ripped up my appointment card with the cardiologist and that was eight years ago. So seven, whatever. But you can see why the importance of the Heart Math Institute, right has there’s such an emphasis on the heart brain coherence. And if we’re in fear, we’ll never perhaps get to a point where we have this heart brain coherence. Each of us have a choice to do this individually. Right. But as a human race, unless we can all find the peace in our hearts right? Will we ever arrive at a place place where we have the heart brain coherence which then once we get to heart brain coherence, we can get to what we call the universal cosmic coherence. I began to so after I took up Regina was teaching I learned myself as the peace and love of God. Then I took up the mines silent partner, mine silent partner, the the, the pamphlet that was written in the early 1900s by the Dr. James Porter Mills, right. And in there so Georgina’s teaching divine peace and love of God, he’s talking about our omniscience and infinite and eternal nature. So, as the as I’m contemplating my infinite and eternal nature, these larger, more cosmic waves, the wave mechanics, quantum wave mechanics are entering into my aura, okay, and they’re rising up, notice, notice the concentration of energy in my head. In, you know, in this picture, it’s true, my head felt like it was about ready to explode. I it was, it was, whereas it was stuck here in the heart chakra area, it was definitely stuck here in the seventh chakra area, right. But as I continued, again, these waves are conscious waves, and they are as Conscious Light that’s entering into your auric field. And they are highly intelligent, highly knowing they’re all knowing waves. This is the what we call the faith that comes in to you that gives you the confidence no matter how you’re feeling, right, gives you the confidence to continue your practice, right, no matter what is going on. And so eventually, that’s what happened that evening when I sat down on the bed, right? Eventually I toss Robin his book across. Eventually, eventually it’s going to implode is actually the physics term. Right? The physics terms for what had happened to me physiologically, there’s a lot more physics and I explained it a bit in the paper, not too much, just enough for, you know, us layman, a citizen scientists to be able to explain what is happening during what is termed a kundalini awakening, a spiritual awakening with all this energy. It’s really quite simple. I didn’t know any of this, I was at the state of fear. All I knew was to surrender. And all this was happening in the universe. I say the universe, right is bringing to me. All the books. You know, somebody passed me Regina has a New Testament interpretation. A way of mastery woman rouge is about 85 years old, right? She said, she said, Hey, what’s happening to your eye?

LISA: I said, I’d love to read the Bible, but I can’t understand it. She says here have this boom, within three months, you know, I go from I go from fear to love. Because somebody passed me a book and I, I was open and receptive to reading that. Right? So and I’ll have to give thanks to the boys like Braden, Gregg Braden and Bruce Lipton for helping to open my mind and to consider to update my science and look at quantum theory and what is really going on when we speak at our physical world in terms of, you know, the quantum, the quantum mechanics, the quantum wave command, mechanics, because that really helps to loosen the mind from these physical objects, and especially our bodies, when we know that we’re 99.9% not physical matter, then what is that? What What is all that? What is all that beautiful, gorgeous, nice stuff. Right? That is right here, right here at our disposal for our use for our own, in my case, regeneration, right. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that just a second because regeneration is a little bit more than just having this spiritual experience. But for the kid, our actual health and well being, it boils down to once your energy is cleared once you’ve identified yourself, not only with the divine peace and love that we are, you identify yourself with as a divine creature, right? That is can be fully aware. It grows its consciousness is kind of an evolution if it came Until my body all at once I probably blow up right? But but you become Yeah, you come up become aware of your omniscient, infinite and eternal nature and those things that are associated with our omnipresence. Right, the omnipresence of consciousness. And that’s, that’s a whole other issue, you’ve probably, you know, talked to about what 10 or 12 people, I guess, interviewed people just on the science of consciousness alone. But, you know, I moved on even from the science of consciousness, I learned early on that concepts are accepted in my practice early on, that consciousness is not a product of the brain. It’s primordial. It is primordial. It is the substratum of the entire universe. So once we accept that, into our minds is kind of hard for materialist scientists to try to accept that right? But once we accept it as primordial, boy, things really take off. Because we’ve now put consciousness right in his proper place, and consciousness. And I’ll use the terms God universe consciousness, Higher Self, I’ll say all the same thing, right? And operating on energies that we call wave mechanics, we call it we can call it Kundalini, we can call it Holy Spirit Qi. Okay, so these are the things that I’ve learned since I’ve started studying Dan Winters science, not seen as similar. Nassim Harrison, herring has, you know, similar physics, but to be able to know, it’s, it’s, it’s the knowledge that’s coming, that that that is starting to take the mystery, not starting to, that’s kind of one of my aims, right, is to help to take the mystery, demystify what’s going on around us and to break free of what appear to be, you know, objects, even just our own body object and look at it from an entirely different perspective and giving you the self empowerment that we need to establish our own well being our own mental health, in our own physical health, through knowing right through knowing what it is that we truly are, what is our true nature, right, our true nature. So I wanted to wanted to go through that that’s a very important piece of the of the whole picture.

RICK: Good. One thing I want to point out here, if it’s not obvious to people, is that you know, you have a nice balance of experience and understanding. And I think that’s really important, like you said a few minutes ago that the understanding gave you the sort of conviction to keep going understanding can also give a person the motivation to even start and understanding can also enable a person to realize that they’re finished, although I don’t know if there is any such thing as an ultimate finishing but one can actually be having a high state of enlightenment and not realize it because there’s some gaps or some doubt in the understanding and that can be cleared up and then that that can completely shift one’s whole orientation. So you know, some people are top heavy on the on the knowledge without much experience and some people are, you know, emphasize on the experience side, but don’t have much understanding about it. And either way is a less assured way of progressing on the on the spiritual path, it’s much more prone to downfalls and sidetracks and, and stuff like that. So if understanding and experience are kept balanced, and they enrich one another, they support reinforce one another. And it’s really conducive to spiritual evolution.

LISA: Well, the what I’d like to say about that, Rick, I I I guess I was lucky that fortunate that I’d always I’ve always been pretty single focused and that I don’t get to extracted I’ve you know, started jobs in the corporate world and you know, get an agenda and go at it I started my own companies and and and there’s there’s just a focus a goal orientation, right? And when I set out to know God, and again, it’s right here all of the all of the power that we have all the all the omniscience, if I say even the inspiration is all here with in us and when we when we go and declare something thing right for me. I sat I found I finally found mines silent partner. And all I did was was those meditations. I never went to other sources, right? I never scattered my attention, if you will. And the more that I focus my attention on just these specific meditations, right I call them contemplations. I couldn’t meditate that that energy had risen up into my head, there was no meditating, it was just contemplating. And what I would do is I would take a passage, and I was living on a lake, and I and I go kayak and just just contemplate this stuff and shimmering lake water, we’d build bonfires, right. And I’d just stare into a bonfire for four hours just contemplating these passages, and I could actually feel shifts in my consciousness, the righteousness as the heart brain coherency was was working, they call it a dual generator, the dual generator when the heart and brain are working in, in total coherence. And if we stick to if we focus our attention inward, and stay within, without any distractions, no TV, I didn’t know magazines, I even with the music, I love classic rock. But I put away that playlist and downloaded only electronic music without words, because all the songs that I would listen to from the 60s and 70s would would would bring up, you know, emotions and memories. So I just put all that aside, and just move forward with some new just electronic only music, which, by the way, I understand by neural beat kinds of things have an effect on the binaural beats have an effect on, you know, these, all of these vibrations going yeah, let

RICK: me otherwise add that next week, I’m going to be interviewing Eben Alexander and I’ve been reading his latest book, and I didn’t know much about binaural beats, but he talks about a lot in that book. And, and he also mentions a number of things that you you’ve been mentioning. So just for those listening, he might want to catch that one too. Binaural beats in fact, his his seems to be his main spiritual practice. Yeah, he’s the guy who wrote Proof of Heaven, who had a near death experience, neurosurgeon who had a near death experience and was in a coma for a week. And anyway, don’t want to get off on that too much. But Okay, keep going.

LISA: Yeah, where do we want to take this? Well, I,

RICK: I have a number of things. I mean, I, I read your paper. And I took some main points on it, which are interesting. And you also have a six point thing, six steps or points that we can talk about? Yeah. So we’ll do that. But one thing I just want to sort of look back on, and is the one for the one pointedness of your focus. I mean, you just mentioned it, but it’s, I think that’s really important. And it’s something that, you know, Ramanna, Nisargadatta, and others all talked about in terms of and Papaji all talked about in terms of their own spiritual development, they just kind of like, grabbed on to spirituality, like a pit bull on the pant leg of opportunity to quote George W. Bush. And and didn’t let go, you know, and it was that one pointed focus and determination. Yeah, it’s that Yeah, in fact, a lot of spiritual. Yeah, a lot of

LISA: you don’t see, you don’t see books or TV or music. You know, that’s nowhere in this graph. Yeah. You know, our attention is focused inward, in and if we can learn to do that, we’re going to have very, very quick results. Yeah.

RICK: So many references to it. A lot of spiritual teachers have said that the desire for God is in itself the most effective means of reaching God. Yeah, yeah. Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras, talks about mild, medium, intense and vehemently intense in terms of one’s determination. You know, I was. So it’s a it’s an important, probably the most important variable in terms of the speed with which one progresses?

LISA: Yeah. So I mean, you know, going to the six points that I make in my paper, setting attention is intention is number two. And I only put it as number two because I do think it’s very important number one, for folks to update their science. A lot of us our age even younger, I spoke to a 40 year old woman, I’m 60. I talked to a 40 year old woman and she’s still operating. They’re still teaching, you know, in high school biology and chemistry, and physics, there’s no science of consciousness. And in the physics, they really don’t get to the fact that, you know, that we’re 99.9% non physical, right? I mean, the kids are just wanting to get through the physics classes. That’s if they’re going into engineering, I guess, right. But physics isn’t tied, right at that, that the level that it should be, or let’s say, in the context of your own personal development, right. So I say number one is update your site. Well,

RICK: as you know, the materialist paradigm holds that, you know, we live in a material world and the brain creates consciousness. And that’s completely, you know, as backwards in terms of the way the universe actually works. And

LISA: yeah, in fact, one of the first things that I did notice during the bliss period, right, as I started to look around, that was one of the first phrases that I said, I’m like, Oh, my God, everything is upside down. Everything is upside down. Man has it all backwards man does not realize that his consciousness is the one thing he should be paying all of his attention to right? At least until he awakens himself. You

RICK: see my interview with Mark

LISA: Gober? No, sir, I

RICK: didn’t have his book, on the shelf there couldn’t quite reach it without pulling out wires and stuff. But he wrote a book called The End to upside down thinking, oh, yeah, young fellow, he was like, Chairman or captain of the tennis team at Princeton, and they got to Wall Street and was really successful in that arena. But after a while, he just began to wonder, you know, I don’t know, these ideas began to dawn on him. And he just plunged into it and wrote this really good book, that’s a nice synopsis of evidence that consciousness is fundamental and matter secondary.

LISA: Yeah. And I would suggest to anybody who has any doubt about that, just take that plunge, make that assumption, and move on to number two. That’s kind of what I did. I was like, Okay, why don’t I just make actually, the James Porter Mills book mine silent partner, pretty much established that as a premise. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So even if a

RICK: person doesn’t feel much orientation to science, I mean, the main point about your point number one, which is update your science is, gain and understand and gain a vision of possibilities, that the the universe, the world is not what it appears to be, and that there’s actually something much more profound, and you are capable of achieving it. And once you get that conviction, then you can set about, you know, how to achieve it.

LISA: I mean, I really, you know, I read a few of, we’ll probably all have great Braden his books, and Bruce Lipton’s, and talks about epigenetics and, and a couple a couple books on me. So I didn’t, there were no classes. I didn’t take any physics classes. It was just a, you know, just a very general, right, easing into flipping things around. Right. So updating your science doesn’t require you go back to college, right, just just read a few things that are out there. And then then then, in setting your intention, you had the intention, like you said, is, is number one and my intention was, again, I’m I was always pretty single focus to begin with. So when I set the intention to know God, no one understand. I’m speaking to myself, when I go out, and I state the intention, right, just because I’m here, doesn’t mean this stuff isn’t here. It’s just that I’m just not consciously aware of it. I’m not consciously aware of it. I’m still in fear. I’m still in fear. So it’s still there. Your higher self is part of yourself. It’s always there. They just see on my Facebook, I posted the dog wagging his tail. actually shared

RICK: that to my face. But go ahead.

LISA: I forget what it says it says

RICK: the chasing along as part of you or something like that, you know,


yeah, the thing that you’ve been chasing its tail? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s

LISA: like, it’s, it’s right here. It’s been a part of you all along. But it’s it. So it’s true. So when you go and declare an intention, you’re right. If you’re not talking to some man on the moon, you’re talking to yourself, and yourself and yourself knows whether you are 100% in fatik, or if there’s any level of a doubt, you know, it’s not going to take you where you want to go or it’s going to develop a path for you that is less than a direct path. So if your intention isn’t pure, right, expect that you probably might be spending you know, a few more months a few more lifetimes, however much time right it takes before your intention is as pure as it could possibly be. You want to know God, you want to I mean, most people don’t even scientists, perhaps you want to know your hierarchy. If you want to embody only truth, perhaps, whatever statement it makes, if you are just like I was done with human suffering, not just my own, but many much suffering that was going on directly around me with my family and friends. Yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty clear, there was no doubt obvious. Yeah,

RICK: right. And I would suggest that, you know, you do have to be true to your own nature and tendencies. So a person shouldn’t feel like a loser or something, if they want to watch television, or go to the movies or have a nice meal, you know, I still played that you start playing golf you’d like to, and stuff like that. So we don’t have to become fanatics. And sometimes if a person starts really straining, you know, that, you know, I’m gonna get enlightened in a week or bust, then they end up flipping back in the other direction. And, you know, that

LISA: won’t happen because this this life in this house, call it higher self will take you on a path, and we’ll have circumstances and things unfold for you at your own pace. It knows everything about you. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I it does, it knows everything about you. It’s almost like your, your entire soul, your entire being from the day you were born, is written in these vibrations, right? So it knows what’s best for you.

RICK: There’s There’s a saying I don’t know whether it’s from the Yoga Sutras or where but it’s the means collected around satwa and satwa could be interpreted as purity or purity of intention. And like, you know, like you said, you had that intention. And then all of a sudden, this book shows up when experience a few years ago, where the guy who had been doing our video post production for many years, very much appreciation to him, had done it long enough. And he said, You should really find somebody else. And somebody who’s really into the content, you know, and we before we even really put the word out within a couple of days, someone named Angel, Mark Lloyd, who had been listening to backup for years, felt the impulse to get in touch with us and say, Hey, would you like to somebody to do the video post production? Yeah, it was perfect. I know, she’s been doing a great job. But that’s the kind of thing and you know, it was far more than some random coincidence.

LISA: No such thing as coincidence, right. There are certain there are certain words that don’t even enter into my vibration anywhere else. My vocabulary? Yeah, no such thing as coincidence. And you know, all even goes so far. We’ll talk about this in just a second. You know, disease does not enter my consciousness anymore. It does not exist for me in my consciousness. Do I experience some things? Yes. But we’ll talk about this at the end, because I’d like to wrap this up with what we call self healing. Okay.

RICK: Before we get into whatever we’re going to do next, let me intersect a couple of questions that came in one is from Claire in Birmingham, England. And Claire, she’s, she said, I’m going to actually ask her a question, and then I’m going to embellish it a bit. She said, I missed the start. Did you mention the name of the work? you based your exploration on? That was the mills guy, right?

LISA: James Porter Mills, mines, silent pine

RICK: Salem partner, I can even link to that from your backup pitch. And then her second part is what does it mean to be told one has an active Kundalini? And I’d like to add to her question by saying, What if a person feels they don’t have an active Kundalini and what you know, I have an idea what Kundalini is, but I don’t seem to be having any Kundalini experiences. What’s wrong with me? I mean, what would you say to that kind of person?

LISA: Oh, that’s interesting. It’s one of the topics of discussions that I have had a little bit with emerging sciences foundation. One of the, I think, is a myth that this Kundalini energy stays dormant at the base of our spine until it decides to rise I’m like, I, I’m probably going to call that perhaps something we need to probably look into and maybe drop that as something as a belief. Well, Kundalini is is a is a, I feel, right. I’ve studied it enough. I’ve experienced it enough. Is is our life energy. How is it staying dormant in the base of our body? When in essence, right, it really is? The energies that are all around us, right? At all times. So

RICK: like the little guy on the left that, you know, has an affair guy. I mean, obviously, his energy’s still alive alive, but his energies are dormant so his light is being hid under a bushel so to speak.

LISA: Well, I kind of like I said, I had been talking to emerging sciences and some other people about this, that if it’s our life, energy It may just be stuck for me, it was stuck in my in my, my third chakra, my third, you know, third area here, manifesting as heart palpitations. I think as we, as we, as we mature as we age from an infant, that energy is maybe in that root chakra. And as we go about, you know, Adolescence is rising up into the second chakra as we develop these external relationships and work relationship ships and expand our, you know, relationships outside of ourselves to other people other things, right, it’s in our third chakra area. So I just, I just kind of wonder, this notion that we have that it’s stuck in our root chakra area, all this time until it decides to rise. What’s keeping us alive? What’s beating my heart? Right,

RICK: I think that um, yeah. I think that someone like by Greenwell or Joan Harrigan, or somebody would have a good answer for that. And I wouldn’t be able to answer it as well as they, but I think that they would acknowledge that, yeah, this energy, it’s not like it’s totally locked down and nothing trickles upward. But, you know, people go through their whole lives without having it really blossom to the extent that it could and all the higher chakras.

LISA: Hmm. I don’t I don’t know, again, I, you know, I studied the Kundalini for for a while, for that year, that first year after three years of bliss. And I had to go back to my original practice. And look at that quite seriously. As you know, what I was trying to do was regenerate my consciousness, which boom, took that energy, all the way up through my crown chakra. You know,

RICK: eventually, that doesn’t happen to most people, it happened to you, because you really couldn’t, you know, and you had this intense desire and doing staring at the wall for six hours at a time. But most people just go through life without anything like that happening.

LISA: Perhaps then we need to be looking at this Kundalini as a very, very powerful energy, I call it Life. And, again, I’m trying to demystify it, that it is our it’s through it, we can evolve ourselves evolve our consciousness. And if we don’t know this, if we don’t know this, perhaps it is going to get stuck in one of the lower chakras.

RICK: All the people have been saying all these gently, you know, millennia? Yeah, everyone says it’s there. I mean, kingdom of heaven is within you and all the yogi’s and everybody else says, Yes, you have this tremendous Layton untapped source of power that lies within whatever however they describe it. But the point is to tap it, and most the vast majority of humanity doesn’t really do that significantly. And hopefully, we’re in a time now where it’s proliferating more and more.

LISA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we’re getting out and to

RICK: some something away atmosphere, so to speak.

LISA: It’s, it’s everywhere, right? Hopefully to again, demystify it and take a look at the lore out of it. You can really get stuck I think, if you consider to the not consider, but continue to believe that this is some mysterious would he call it feminine? Goddess energy? Yeah, with feet immediately that

RICK: ever? Yeah, we need to bring science into it.

LISA: Yeah. I mean, my husband doesn’t want to get feminine. He’s like, construction guy. So I mean, it’ll it just our perception of what this beautiful life energy is, I think, is a very big stumbling block. Yeah. So it’s time to go.

RICK: That’s a very good point, that dropped very good point. And that’s true of not only Kundalini, but all aspects of spirituality and consciousness and everything else, I think it will be tremendously important. And it’s happening more and more and more for marriage of science and spirituality to take place in which each enriches the other. And believe me, both of them have tremendous value to offer the other. And I think, you know, I don’t know when, but sooner or later, we won’t see a dichotomy between them, we’ll have a sort of a body of knowledge and experience that incorporates the best of them both and both will have evolved significantly because of that interaction.

LISA: Well, I like to say that, you know, in the beginning and even at the end of the little video that I made, the clip is there’s a link of it in that paper that you’ll post that link in the in the video, which I made. About a year ago. I say I’m here to help bridge the gap between science and spirituality. If I were to restate that right now, I would say there is To no bridge between here and here, there is no bridge. We are it. We are all that is. We are sovereign beings. We are sovereign beings. So we have

RICK: to realize it. Yeah, this is a good time to ask this question that came in from Jan Ringel. Stein in Germany, I can relate very much to Lisa’s experience, and I’ve had something similar. I think it’d be very, very important for people like us to talk to each other and share our feelings, maybe using zoom or Skype meetings. Are there any groups who are doing this are how do you find like minded people?

LISA: Thanks, Rick, you’re this.

RICK: And there is a, there is a backup Facebook group where people get into all kinds of conversations about such things. I don’t know how many members we have now, I think over 11,000 or something. So there’s that. But you know, she, she brings up a good point. And people could organize something like that. I mean, somebody could post it at face book group, hey, let’s have a Zoom meeting with each other. And that somebody could just organize it and have it. Go ahead, where you say,

LISA: feel free to friend me. And you know, we’ll strike up conversation. I’m very open. Now. This is my first interview that I’ve done, officially. I’ve had several conversations, but this is the first one officially. So let’s let’s run with Sure. I call it the shareable ways right now, right?

RICK: And there are conferences, like you mentioned, the emerging sciences Foundation. And then there’s the Galileo commission and a bunch of and there’s like the shift network and a bunch of things where people in the science and non duality conference, so people do have these zoom things, but there’s usually in most of those not a lot of opportunity for everyone to share and speak and interact. So, you know, but informally, it wouldn’t be too hard to set something like that up. Yep, I know. I wouldn’t have to

LISA: call you or anything. You want to finish up the six point us? Or do you have another question?

RICK: Hang on one second. I mean, just sent me a joke about our dog. Yes. Go ahead and finish up to six points.

LISA: Is it that dog with the wagging tail was that you’re in that Facebook? Oh,

RICK: but we have a dog. That’s the one that you mentioned. You like some group that is something puppy? Oh, the puppy. I really like called snarky puppy. So we have a dog that’s kind of like a snarky puppy and like he’s, he’s chewing he is called. He can get really snarky and so I mean, his name is Theo and I. I know I’m gonna read it anyway. Irene says Theo says he hit he has a koonta meanie Alright, let’s get serious. Let’s go back to the point we’re gonna stay focused forever got

LISA: it? Yeah, I kind of like that. Yeah, so setting the intention Yeah. And for me it was very emphatic number three then claim your true identity This is a very very big piece claim your true identity you’re not the individual with your relationships in the world and your work you know you know how it is the mother, the brother, the sister, the manager of the company or whatever? None these are very worldly things right but your true identity which perhaps we have yet to claim, right? Is we are omniscient. Be it at least it worked for me at first it was I am divine love I am divine peace and began to see myself in a different light altogether what is the Light of Consciousness right I began to see myself in a different light altogether. And again experiencing some beautiful physiological changes within my body just by recognizing myself as the divine peace and love of God right oh my god. And then when I began to identify instead with even more intense frequencies I’ll say my ambitions right infinite and eternal nature when you sit with that for a while and it doesn’t take a long time before a an identity starts to rise up within you that virtually leaves you with left me with the the feeling that Aecon um universal being with unlimited potential. You know, there’s nothing can stop me from being able to do what I desire to do. There’s nothing outside of myself right? That is any more important, then who am what I am from a from an infinite and he eternal perspective. And so that’s why I say, claim it, you must claim it. And remember, you’ve got all this higher self all around you, it hears you. And when you go out and claim yourself as infinite and eternal guess what, you’re going to match up with these very cosmic wave mechanics that are going to come in very intelligent, all knowing all powerful wave mechanics that will enter into your conscious aura, right? And begin to do its works, if you will, on your consciousness, raising your consciousness. Remember, and I say it in the paper, you’re not and Romney says this other spirituals you say it as well, you’re not the one doing the work here. When a woman gets pregnant, she’s not making the baby. She’s watching TV and cooking dinner, the baby is being made by the Creator, right? Likewise, all I had to do was claim my identity, set my attention, claim my identity, and the work is being done for you. There’s nothing that we have to do.

RICK: Let me ask you a couple of questions on that. One is with regard to identity. Would it be true to say that, you know, you might say, I’ll pretend I’m you? Well, you know, I’m Lisa, and I live in Colorado, and I like to play golf, and I like to go fly fishing. And I like to hike. And, you know, those are some things about my life. But those are just the tip of the iceberg. Those are just one little wave. And I know what I really am ultimately, is this ocean. And yet, you know, it’s not it’s not to say I’m not a wave, I am a wave, but more fundamentally an ocean. And both are true. Would that be a fair way of describing it?

LISA: How about we do this, the I Am is a pure statement of being that is infinite and eternal and unchanging. And I am divine love, I am the peace of God. I am the universe. I like to golf. Right? I have family. I love my relationships. But I am is the purest statement of being right. It’s a declaration of your true identity, your true nature.

RICK: So but if we think of it this way, we’re sense organs of the infinite were sent were organs of action of the infinite and the infinite enjoys playing a little golf through this particular sense organ. Like skiing through that sense, Oregon, he or she, I got in trouble the other week for referring to the infinite and a mascot and gender. Somebody from Berkeley gave me hell on it.

LISA: It was Alan Watts, right? Who would go to the aperture we are the apertures of the one infinite Creator. It’s literal sense organs. Right? And

RICK: if you think about the whole universe, all the galaxies and stars and all the beings who live on those galaxies and so on, they’re all They’re just the infinite variety of sense organs of the one universal being.

LISA: All the all the forms that we see all the objects that we see, we are one conscious being being conscious, right. And we are not this separate self. Ricky heard all this right. Yeah, but it’s nice. We’re not just we’re not this separate self. Right? I am. If I go around saying I am Lisa. I am a wife. I am. I’ll never get to my true nature. Yeah, right. And the I am statement of being which actually is there’s a beautiful 10 page 10 pages of minds silent partner, Dr. James Porter Mills, that speaks very eloquently to the I am statement of being and the and when you’re using that you are really waking up. Let’s go back to this picture. When you say I am these little guys out here right? are taking notice. That’s the I

RICK: Am I heard a great story the other night from Swami Sarver pa Nanda. He was talking about Swami Shivananda, I believe it was he was a disciple of Swami Vivekananda, who was a disciple of Shri Rama, Krishna. And anyway, he had some serious health problems. He had asthma and stuff. And sometimes he couldn’t sleep because he couldn’t breathe if he went to sleep. And so one night he was, was awake most of the night. He was very uncomfortable. And in the morning, one of his disciples said, How you doing, sir? And he said, Oh, I’m great. I’m marvelous. And the disciples said, Oh, but we heard that you were really suffering and you’re awake all night. He said, Oh, you mean my body? Yeah, that’s in bad shape. It was a bad night for my body.

LISA: I’ve had I’ve had many I’ve had many Do those Yeah, yeah. So

RICK: before we go on to the next point, let me just slip in a little question here that came in. So I’d like to get a man. This is from Melissa in Brisbane, Australia and getting people all over the world today. Has your diet changed since this profound spiritual experience? And if so, how? And does it contribute to expansion of consciousness?

LISA: My diet has not changed. I still drink beer when I play golf. I still eat meat. I, I there were a couple things that I I do more of I drink a heck of a lot more water, mainly because I think I moved to Colorado. But remember what, yeah, what what we’re dealing with here is not our physical nature, what we call our physical nature. What we’re dealing with here is of a mental nature, mind consciousness. wave mechanics and even Raman Maharshi will say this, I, you know, no, we do not have to, we really do not have to, it helps a lot to, for us physically, to feel better. So that perhaps a meditative or contemplative session might go more comfortably. I honestly, if you’re drinking three glasses of wine a night, you’re probably going to go to sleep, you know, before any effects of meditation take place. So, you know, you, I think, once again, check within, right, you’ll know, you’ll know. And, but I know thanks for the question. I didn’t do anything at all to alter my diet. Okay,

RICK: good. And if you ever are supposed to, I imagine you’ll be inclined to and you probably don’t have to worry about it too much. It’ll happen if it happens.

LISA: Oh, I get messy. Yeah, yeah.

RICK: So before we go off of point three, claim your true identity. You know, people have been listening to us, and I’m sure that most people, for most people, these concepts are not new that you know, you’re you have this oceanic consciousness and being and that’s who you really are, and all that stuff. So for someone listening, who doesn’t really experience that, they just understand it intellectually. How exactly did they claim it? And what difference will claiming it make?

LISA: I guess, because it became so evident to me after when when I read those in this in the beginning of the book, James Porter Mills, his book mine silent partner, it became so clear to me that the I am statement of being right is a crucial, a critical piece that we have to break the mind free, right? From our old concept of ourselves. Right? So Rick, if you wanted to become a concert pianist, right, and start taking, you know, piano lessons, you probably you might get there a lot quicker, if you in your mind. And this is not just affirmation that’s going on, right. But if in your mind, you accept yourself as a concert pianist, guess what’s going to happen, you’re probably going to get there a lot quicker, right? Instead of fumbling through lessons and going to teachers, you just emphatically declare yourself as I am just like Tiger Woods said, I will be the number one golfer I am the number one golfer in the world. So sure, it’s not gonna be very, very powerful state,

RICK: you’re not just gonna end up there was a I think it was Horowitz someone came up to him in on the street in New York City and said, How do you get to Carnegie Hall? And he said, practice, practice practice.

LISA: I would say to and this is where the Romanus self inquiry practice comes from. And we’d call it self inquiry he uses the question who am I? What it does is it turns the mind right back on itself there’s no outward projection every time you have a thought you know a thought about anything out in the outer world. The the self inquiry practice, who am I brings your attention right back to center. I am. Who am I? I am. That’s why that practice is so very powerful. Yeah, I am. We’re not we’re not even meditating on an object out there. Right? That’s the difference between meditation and self inquiry. You’re just and that’s really what I was doing when I was establishing myself as I am omniscient, infinite, eternal, right. So it’s it was the same practice of self inquiry right in my mind is not out there even meditating on anything in the objective in the objective world. So I, I learned the power of a true The mind Silent Partner pamphlet, I bought into it, and did it. And it seemed to really accelerate my attention and my focus. And there’s a lot of physics with regards to the power of attention. And what is happening to us a peazy. Electrically, I think it’s the word. Okay. There’s a lot of physics behind our power of attention. In fact, in every single nail moment, and you know, this, we only ever have the Now moment, there’s the past and the future, right? But we only ever have in this Now moment, and in this Now moment, where is your attention? Because that’s all you have. Really, in this Now moment? Where is your attention? Here? Or like 99% of the population? Everywhere else? But yeah, you you want to awaken quickly. Establish your true identity, the I Am, right? And keep your attention focused inward. And watch what happens. Watch all that beautiful, high powered, highly intelligent, knowledgeable, energy that’s around us start to flow through you very, very, very quickly.

RICK: There’s a great verse in The Gita goes for many branched and endlessly divers are the intellects of the irresolute. But the resolute intellect is one point.

LISA: Yeah, yeah, there you go. Like that. IBC. Right, let

RICK: the whole body will be full of light. And then of course, there’s Nisargadatta, who said, My guru told me that I am the self, I am pure being and I believed him, and I just stuck to that conviction. And within about three years, he fully realized that yeah, dude. All right, beautiful. So let’s go on to point four.

LISA: Okay, surrender. Big, big one for me. And again, it goes back to the the, some of the Kundalini symptoms that that we spoke about earlier, especially with the the one question there, especially for me, I knew nothing about the inner world, I knew nothing about the inner world, I might my attention was entirely in you know, with the objective world. And so I had a lot of a lot of blockages. And so when I began the practices, the the energy was surfacing in certain ways. And if if there’s any resistance whatsoever, if I didn’t, if I didn’t come across the art of surrender, and actually believe it or not, when I when I came to know myself as the peace and love of God through Regina Don Akers New Testament interpretation, I also latched on to she had also written this little pamphlet called the teachings of inner Ramana. She too, she just embraced Ramana Maharshi his teachings read through them. They’re very kind of difficult, a lot of Sanskrit terminology, a lot of Hindu terminology, but through contemplation, and a lot of help from Rama type energy, right? She ended up scribing she calls it scribing. Right? The, the teachings of inner Ramana. And in it, she breaks down, what is self inquiry so that the Western mind can understand really what is self inquiry, as well as and this is cute. What is surrender? And so I read the pamphlet, and I’m like, okay, so I typed I ripped out, look at this, I ripped out page 11 or whatever the pages six and seven, what is what is surrender,

RICK: turn it around,

LISA: carrying it around in my pocket for four months

RICK: again, to have it laminated.

LISA: It’s classic, isn’t it? It’s just classic, but in here she lists then a different point, you know, what we can do? What do we mean by surrender right and different things that we can do in every single moment, right? Because I was really incapable of doing self inquiry, but in every single moment, how am I to see this? So, if something is happening out there like an argument, how am I to see that let the let the let the higher self let the let the lid? Let it be perceived in a different perspective. Right. How shall I listen to this? Right? How shall I some of the and I’m sorry, I’m reading through the ripped paper here, right. But how should I think so what you’re doing is you’re observing you become more the observer of events and circumstances going on around you. And instead of reacting, right, you, you don’t just walk away. What you’re doing is you’re Asking your Higher Self these higher beautiful energies that are right here at our disposal. How should I? How should I? How should I be viewing this? What should I take from this? Instead of responding? We’re being the observer, right? And letting the higher self then answer the question for us internally, we can walk away. I mean, we don’t have to then jump into the argument and said, Well, my higher self said, No, that the whole practice is, is to begin to train the mind right? To instead of, instead of reacting to the external world, that we keep our mind focused, that we’re keeping our mind focused, and the art of surrender, especially when we’re dealing with some physiological or even psychological psychic kinds of things that are happening due to this beautiful energy that’s just trying to just try to break through, right? It really helps when you’re what I call, fully surrendered. And every single day I would wake up and surrender myself to God to surrender, surrender, I was fully surrendered to the Spirit of God as James Porter mills would say, what you want to do is get rid of your human race consciousness is very limited, right? And rambling and rustling and what did they call it? That monkey mind? thing? Right? Right. And instead fill it right with the spirit of life, the type of consciousness that we were meant to and designed to house a divine consciousness, right. So I was already pretty much surrendered to what I call the spirit of life. Li Fe with a capital L. Yeah. Okay, that’s yeah, that’s surrender. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a good one. And you can practice it all the time. And every single moment.

RICK: Yeah. And it doesn’t mean you become passive and you somehow just

LISA: wait, oh, no, I never been anything. Well, I’m

RICK: just gonna sit here until I, the spirit moves me to do something, like get a job or I’ll get out of bed or whatever.

LISA: What you’re doing, what you’re doing is you’re evolving your consciousness. You’re not responding to the same old story. You know that the same argument, the same situation, the same election, the same stuff, you know, you’re not responding to what’s more important. What is what is the last thing in the eternal, right, your consciousness, you’re evolving your consciousness. I I’d like to spend 24 hours a day evolving my consciousness. Yeah.

RICK: Another way I look at it is and you’ve said this today is that you know, if everything is divine, if everything is intelligence, if the whole creation is this play and display of, of intelligence, then you know, surrender to an extent means being observant and being kind of cooperative with the play as it unfolds itself, you know, being sensitive to what is unfolding and responding accordingly.

LISA: Well, it’s amazing to Rick once you’re not participatory, and things that no longer serve you they will fall away they will fall away because you are no longer of that vibration. So either those people in your life are going to follow away if their family members they become more peaceful. We we are all one conscious being so I you know, I bring my attention inward I’m much more peaceful a heck of a lot less, you know, belligerent let’s say in response to external situations, family kinds of stuff going on the whole family’s become kind of peaceful and instead it’s we’re one conscious beings. And yeah, it’s amazing nice.

RICK: I’ll just quickly throw in a universe for that one to that it’s the objects of sense turn away from Him who does not feed upon them, but the taste for them persists on see seeing the supreme even this tastes vanishes.

LISA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. It’s, it’s it’s the it’s the universe that works for all of us. And when one of us when one of us chooses the highest and best good guess what’s going to happen? The universe is going to allow for that as opposed to anything else that might be going on in that particular circumstance or situation eventually may not happen right away.

RICK: Good point though. Highest first. Okay, point five.

LISA: What do we do here? Oh, meditate. I use the word meditate because a lot of folks know that versus I use contemplation right. But it is important to to think establish a meditative practice and not for purpose other than to evolve your consciousness. In this case, this is what I was trying to do, I was trying to regenerate my consciousness. So I knew that a practice to continue to keep my attention, focus inward was essential, anything less than my total attention inward, was less than my total attention inward. So a meditative practice anything that I could do, right to keep my attention, focus inward. There are all kinds of meditative practices, as you will know, Rick, right, just to establish peace of mind to establish, let’s say, just focus your awareness on awareness, beautiful, that helps to really settle the mind. Right? And helps to, I think, bring into your conscious being some higher frequencies, some higher, lovely, more cosmic frequencies into your aura. Some people meditate purely for, you know, those spiritual experiences, right? Being able to have glorious, colorful, very, what do you say densely conscious kind of spiritual experiences right behind their closed dies. So meditation serves many, many purposes. But I was, I had established a meditation practice I it was, it was contemplation, right contemplation, where I would take a passage and a very inspiring packet passage and contemplate it for hours, just one passage, contemplate for hours, and you’re evolving your consciousness. And so I found that by what what else did I say here, your intent here is to evolve your consciousness, attain liberation, such meditations are self dichotomizing, I learned that from Aurobindo, if you go to the herb endo website, talking about how self dichotomizing They are, they are evolving your consciousness, we’re not just playing around or trying to become peaceful, we are evolving their consciousness, and will align your consciousness with universal principles. And that’s, and that’s, and that’s what I was doing. And I gave a couple of examples in the, in the paper here Well, of some of the most powerful contemplative things that I would take to heart and, and, and, but again, it all comes back down to the level of attention that you’re giving to your to your inner world, right. And one thing about

RICK: meditation is that your motivation for doing it may evolve over time, I taught meditation for many years, and sometimes people would start because they had high blood pressure, or because, you know, they couldn’t sleep well, or because they wanted to have a better golf game. He may remember the book golf in the kingdom by Michael Murphy. But, you know, then you’d see him six months later, and it’s and you say, How’s the blood pressure doing or the insomnia and so that’s okay, but now I’m kind of interested in this cosmic consciousness stuff. So the motivation, so kinda in a way doesn’t matter. Why is why you start?

LISA: Well, you have your Higher Selves attention, that’s for sure. That’s why it does evolve. Yeah, you know, some people, they start with yoga thinking, well, they’re just getting some some muscular movement, but they what, what you’re doing is you’re settling your energy down, you’re centering your energy, and guess what starts rising right into your consciousness is the higher is the higher consciousness. So all of a sudden they find themselves meditating and, and wanting to do more and more, you know,

RICK: so a question came in relevant to what we’re talking about right now from Rob in Newburyport, Massachusetts. Could Lisa elaborate more on her approach to contemplation I haven’t practiced in meditation, but I’m dealing with physical suffering that sometimes makes it difficult to learning more about how Lisa use contemplation would be great.

LISA: Well, I did speak to that earlier find something Rob highly in spirit inspirational meaning it has. For me, it was it was abstract concepts as abstract that would help to in light and then keep my and keep my questioning going on. For instance, I’ll go ahead and read the example that I gave him my paper. It’s just a very short example, right? One of Mills is James Porter Mills is from the mind silent partner, one of my favorites was come forth, come now fourth, that living word, light the offices of my mind, my spirit is thy spirit. wellspring of truth rising up is eternal life within me now have a sip of wine and think on that while staring into a bonfire and see this see it over and over and over again in your in your mind and contemplate let the mind I would I would do it open eyed. I found myself staring at walls a lot, right. bonfires and, and and, and, and shimmery lakewater, even clouds in the sky, as I continue to contemplate such beautiful inspirational kinds of words. Remember when we use words of truths, such as eternal life, right, or omniscience or divine love, the the spirit of these words will rise up in your consciousness, you can’t help but to just sit there and want to contemplate more and more. So I would say just find something that works for you that’s highly inspirational and spirited from spirit. Right? That really keeps your mind you know, from going back out into the the outer world keeps it keeps it focused within

RICK: I think something that works for you is the key phrase and different things work for different people. So something doesn’t work for you find something that does something will work. Yeah. Yeah. All right, point six abide.

LISA: Yeah, I got that from Ramadan. So So I mentioned to you I’d never studied any of brahmanas material, right? Even after taking the eight week, the six week course, they ate into it, where I tossed this book aside, because I couldn’t I couldn’t understand a Sanskrit word that was being said, I, I didn’t understand what he was saying at all. And even after the six weeks, I’m like, you know, I, you know, might get back to that, but I did. I did really embrace in the three year period, even though I stayed inside, I stayed inside myself. I didn’t research the Internet, what happened to me at all, but I did feel comfortable going and researching rom some of Romanism material and conscious immortality. Conscious immortality was one of my favorites. Beautiful stuff in conscious mortality for me to continue to

RICK: conduct a particular book or something or is that just one of the concepts?

LISA: It might be a book but I think it was no it was it was a like, I think I have it in PDF. Oh,

RICK: so there’s a document called Conscious immortality. Yes.

LISA: I’m just immortality. And yeah, yes. It was probably as you well know. X or something well excerpted in somebody wrote it for him, right. And then it was re re was translated into English. I forget it was back in that three year period of bliss. But one of the most one of one of the other things that that got kind of attached to there’s a fellow on Facebook John Walsenburg, and he’ll post little blurbs little sound bites from ramen is all of his stuff. He has letters gems, you know, consciousness, immortality, all kinds of documents. And John Lawson Virgo posts these beautiful little gems right of ramen. So I allowed myself to, to, to expand my learning of Romanus teachings of outside of self inquiry and outside of surrender, and that’s where I picked up on the term abidance and when when when we look at it Biden’s it just means to persevere. You may get distracted Yeah, I got distracted in fact, right before the experience I Rick I used to own a boat rental business right for 15 years a fleet of boats and jet skis houseboat and you know, here I am trying to and I closed the business down but I was I was I am a boat I but but back then on the lake of a very big boater and, and I swear for 15 years I never had a problem with with boats being in around boats. But darned if I didn’t slip off my boat and mangle both of my legs right below the knee to where I was rendered. I couldn’t I couldn’t do anything. But but lay in bed. I was miserable, absolutely miserable. That’s when I signed up for that class. Because I was like, Yeah, I couldn’t go anywhere at all. So I’m just going to go ahead and sign up for that class because I was pretty much committed by this time to give it 24/7 Right 24/7 I had gotten to that point. Well, why not? I can’t walk right and why do that happen, you know, how is it is that higher self sometimes that universe right that is playing with you is like how do I fall off of a boat I ran a business for 15 years

RICK: experience he was like a by a competitive bicycle racer and, and you know, at a certain he started getting into spirituality in a certain point. He found himself flat in bed for six months or something like that. And it was some strange thing and he eventually recovered for it from it and he started getting better. He started getting back into bicycle racing and then boom, he’s back in bed. And finally he got the message. And

LISA: yeah, it is the message. And I’ve come to learn that about sickness and illness and injury, Roger

RICK: bring up because you said you wanted to talk about health and we’re kind of at the end of our time, almost. So let’s segue into that now, but what you want to say

LISA: okay, I appreciate that. So, the, the regeneration process, right, that that I grasped and held on to and they call it the Kundalini awakening spiritual awakening, I called it i regenerated my consciousness back to this back to truth back to the state it is that we are all born with right in in the world, pure pure consciousness and without any conditioning whatsoever. And what what I’m learning in I use the word regeneration right in is that there is a whole arena of regenerative healing, a whole discipline. And I actually have hooked up with a fella by the name of Ken graden, Ken Graydon, and the title of the book is too small to put on the camera, right? Regeneration, healing, self healing, regeneration, healing, and a has to do with being able to. And I think this is what I do with regenerating my consciousness, consciousness is omnipresent. What happened yesterday, what is happening in the future is accessible. Now, if you think about if you studied the science of consciousness enough, you know that it is omnipresent. Meaning we can go back into the future, right? And bring it forward like I believe is really what was happening. When I went to go regenerate my consciousness, it regenerated, right? The consciousness back to its the truth premise that it was when when I was born. So likewise, I am working now, with with Kin, and intergroup. He has a Facebook group to try to understand more about this, and to be able to self heal now that I understand, I think the omnipresence of consciousness and being able to affect in the Now moment, conditions that I may have experienced in the past, right? They called the what the Akashic records, right? There is a record of every moment of your life every moment of yourself somewhere here, where am I? I don’t know where I’m right. But the whole idea of being able to self heal is a it comes from the omnipresent nature of our consciousness. So it’s a new, it’s a new area for me, and I’m really, really looking forward to it. And if there’s one more thing I can say about it, Rick, is that I truly believe I truly, honestly believe that the pineal gland, okay, which opened up for me during during the, during the, during the experience is a critical, absolutely critical moreso than the pituitary gland that the pineal gland is the master gland. It is the gland right, that enables and allow fours and allows for our healing and self and well being with that with a pineal gland obstructed in any way shape or form. I think we’re we see this is why we see illness in in the world. There was a I belong to the Academy for a Academy for the advancement of post materialist scientists. Yeah. You’ve probably interviewed a number of them. Marjorie Williard Okay, yeah, yeah. Did rate and there’s Charles Schwartz Charles tart, whatever. And that some some of those fellows, menace Pantos? Yes. Yes, yes. Gorgeous, right. So I joined their group as an affiliate member. And they just recently posted something and I thought, oh my gosh, what a tie and how, you know, how does that work with the universe, right throws out a post, right? For the scientific basis for Integrative Medicine, integrative medicine being, of course, the whole mind, body,

LISA: organism, and the integration of it, and how essential this article was posted, or this book was written in 2005 15 years ago called the scientific basis of integrative medicine. The there was an article then that summarize the book posted on the National Institutes of Health website that speaks to the importance of the pineal gland. And it’s an it’s an it’s master control over our whole immune system. So I say, I say, again, going back to one to one of my purposes to demystify this whole beautiful life energy, you know, why aren’t we setting up master classes to open up our Pineo glands? Let’s do this thing. There’s no fear. There’s so much mythology and fear if the pineal gland is so critically important for health and well being as per something that’s 15 years old? Well, let’s, let’s get on it. Let’s let’s do that. Yeah,

RICK: there’s, there’s a lot of things we need to get on. And I think it’s picking up momentum, those, you know, more and more people and groups, like the ones you’ve mentioned, who are just getting on this thing. And and, you know, I think that the future is potentially very bright because of that upwelling of interest in such things. And you don’t see it on the six o’clock news. So it can be rather depressing to see what people think is going on, which is going on, but there’s so much more going on, that doesn’t get reported.

LISA: I think there’s fears there that are unfounded that you know, you’re going to open up some psychic abilities that you don’t want know, once again, your higher self, which is right here, right? knows when your time is ready for whatever it is right that you’re supposed to be doing whatever your sole purpose is. And, you know, I have explored psychic abilities. Nothing’s come to me. You know, I’ve explored lucid dreaming, I’ve explored astral projection, I’ve explored these things and have a have attempted to remote view, right? Or even just see with my eyes closed. You know, there are kids nowadays that are born that are able to see with their eyes closed. I

RICK: know. Right? Stuff like that. Yes. Fascinating stuff.

LISA: That’s an interesting. So that’s where I’m headed. I’m that’s where I’m headed after I wanted to do this interview with you, Rick, again, very much inspired by not only all the work that you’ve done over the past two years, God bless. I can’t say enough about Buddha at the Gas Pump. But but because I was inspired by, by your interview with with Dean and saying if there’s any way anybody can step forward with some science to try to help out, right to bridge this gap that I just run? You know, it’s just one there is no bridge work. It’s just it’s, we’re all we all one. We’re all one. Yeah, well,

RICK: that’s a good note to end on. And there’s so much more. I mean, you and I can easily go on for another couple of hours. But we’ve given people a taste. And I’ll put up a page on bat gap, you know, as I always do about this interview, and perhaps you could send me links to like some of these books that you’ve held up, because people might want to know what they are. And I can link to them from that page. And if you want people to get in, be able to get in touch with you. How should they do that through Facebook, and just Facebook? I’ll put a link to your Facebook page on there. And I’ll put up that paper that you’ve been talking about, and which, you know, goes into some more detail about the things we’ve been talking about. So Right.

LISA: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you very much. And I and I really appreciate everybody who’s tuned in live today. I really do that makes you feel when

RICK: you people under 60 years, 250 or 60 people the whole time.

LISA: Good. Good. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. And thank you, Rick, and I read.

RICK: Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. So thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching and as I mentioned earlier, next week will be Eben Alexander and also his partner, Karen Newell. And the week after that Richard tarnis, who’s a cosmologists at the California Institute of integral studies, and it rolls along. Alright, so thank you, everybody, and we’ll see you for the next one.

LISA: All right, bye bye. Thank you.