Amma Sri Karunamayi Interview

Summary

Amma Sri Karunamayi discusses divine incarnation, meditation, darshan, and the role of love in healing a troubled world. She connects spiritual awakening with compassion, kindness toward all life, service, and hope for humanity’s renewal.

Questions This Interview Explores

• What is the purpose of deep meditation for someone who is already spiritually awakened?
• How can spiritual awakening become compassion and service rather than remain abstract?
• How can I develop a stronger experience of love, inner peace, and joy?
• What kind of meditation practice is most suitable for a spiritual seeker?
• How should we respond to a divine teacher or incarnation?

Key takeaways

• Deep meditation can be undertaken for the peace and welfare of the whole world.
• Mature awakening expresses itself as love, forgiveness, kindness, and service.
• Spiritual practice should cultivate respect for animals, nature, rivers, and all living beings.
• Meditation helps clear self-centeredness and reveal inner love, joy, and peace.
• No single meditation method suits everyone; practice should fit each person's maturity and needs.
• Spiritual teachers focus on healing and uplifting the world rather than receiving recognition.
• Hope remains because divine care can guide humanity through periods of crisis.

Transcript

Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with awake or awakening people. If you’d like more information or to explore the archive of previous shows, please go to batgap.com.

I’m honored and blessed to have as my guest today Amma Sri Karunamayi. Several people have asked me which Amma I’ll be interviewing, as there are several well-known Indian saints who are called Amma. But Amma just means “mother” in India, so there are hundreds of millions of Ammas in India, at least, though they can all count on their children on their fingers. Amma Sri Karunamayi is an embodiment of the Divine Mother and, as such, numbers her children in the billions, if not trillions, and she loves them in infinite measure.

My wife and I have been to see her a number of times when she came to Iowa and Illinois, and the love she radiates saturates the atmosphere and profoundly uplifts everyone present. So it’s a great joy and honor for me to have her on the show. Thank you for doing this, Amma.

Amma: I love you so much, son. Thank you so much.

Rick: Thank you. There are so many things we could cover, and in this interview I hope to cover things that will be of interest both to people who’ve never seen Sri Karunamayi before and to longtime devotees of hers.

We’ll touch upon some aspects of her earlier life, explore a little bit of what her current activities are, including her humanitarian activities, and talk a bit about the value of service and devotion. We will talk about a Mahayagya that she is organizing this summer and explain what that’s all about. If we have time toward the end, I’d like to ask Amma’s commentary on a couple of quotes, one from the Gita and one from the Chandogya Upanishad.

To start with, everyone listening to this show has heard of Ramana Maharshi, and your parents—perhaps your mother in particular—were devotees of Ramana. Your mother visited Ramana Maharshi shortly before he passed away, and he told her that she would give birth to the mother of the universe. At least, that’s what it says in your biography. So, since it says that in your biography, I guess I have to ask: Are you an embodiment of the mother of the universe? And please explain what the mother of the universe is.

Amma: How can you understand, son?

Rick: Well, if you explain, maybe I’ll make an attempt.

Amma: Mother of the universe is just love, compassion, kindness, and forgiveness. That is love. Today our world is suffering so much from a lack of compassion, and there is no kindness in the world. I think in the United Nations, in the United States, 70 percent of girls are undergoing very, very bad abuse, the worst abuse. This was the data collected by people.

There are so many challenges in society. Spirituality and divinity are the only solutions for healing hearts and wounded hearts. This healing is very important, so that’s why I have to be with my kids in the world.

Rick: Are there many avatars in the world at the same time, or is it fairly rare? Is it becoming more common in this day and age for embodiments of divinity to be born on Earth?

Amma: It is not common. To uplift society is not an easy job, so that’s why there are some, but not so many.

Rick: So, as a child, all sorts of interesting things happened in association with your birth. After you were born, at various very young ages, people can read your biography to see all sorts of details, but you showed very profound spiritual inclinations even as a very young child. Before long, you were spending long periods of time in meditation.

As you grew older, it extended sometimes into days and even weeks of seclusion in deep meditation, even without taking any food. Ultimately, you spent 11 or 12 years in the forest, subsisting, I believe, on very little food and engaging in very long meditations.

What was the purpose of all this inner meditation? What sort of inner transformations were taking place in you, perhaps in preparation for what you’re doing now?

Amma: Actually, I know who I am. Before my birth, I knew who I am, so there was no need to do any sadhana for myself. But I just—I was in myself. Being in our Self is…

Jesus did tapas, not for himself. All the austerities were for the sake of universal peace only. If any holy persons meditate, those vibrations travel all over the world and give immense peace and immense joy. Immediately, holy persons are connected with deep meditators. So that’s why we also did tapas and meditation. It’s not for our upliftment; it’s for universal benefit.

All the austerities were for the sake of universal peace only.

Rick: So there was nothing you needed to gain from all that meditating. It was primarily to radiate an influence to the world?

Amma: Yes.

Rick: And now, obviously, you’re in a much more active phase, traveling all over the United States and Europe, Canada, Asia, Australia, and India, engaged in all kinds of activities. Is this in an effort to multiply the effect? Rather than you just sitting in a forest and having an influence on thousands and thousands of people around the world, can you then, through them, have an even greater effect?

Amma: Actually, both are the same. Physical presence has more influence on people. People need love, compassion, and direct communication. We can do that, but people need receptors in themselves. Only meditators can understand the higher levels of consciousness, not all regular people. People need more love, more compassion, and more physical communication.

Rick: So, in other words, people need something—they need your physical presence and interaction. It’s too abstract to just try on their own without the blessings of someone like yourself. Is that what you’re saying?

Amma: Love, love. Not just a blessing, no—love. Responsibility. Love is a responsibility for the world. The world needs so much love and compassion today because many people are living with wounded hearts, unrest, and commotion.

The nature of Kali Yuga is too much worldliness. So many worldly things are diverting people from the truth. People need some inspiration in their lives. When they have communication with spiritual things, immediately the diversion comes, and they travel on the path of truth with the inspiration of seeing spiritual people.

Rick: I know that when we’ve been to see you, there are a number of different aspects to the program, and the whole thing is very uplifting. But the sweetest part, I think, is when people go up for individual darshan. At least when I was going, you would stroke their forehead in a very loving way, and it had a very profound effect. One could feel oneself infused with peace, love, and divinity.

I wonder if you could explain the mechanics of that. Is there a transmission taking place, or is it more like one log is burning brightly and the other log is not burning so brightly, and the bright log gets the other log burning more brightly just by proximity?

Amma: A spiritual person’s body is not a regular human body. Their body is more subtle. More subtle energy is working there, not the body, mind, and intellect. Spiritual people are working with the subtle body. With the subtle body, subtle energy is touching them.

There is so much unrest in their brain and mind—commotion and day-to-day life challenges. It is dispensed from their minds. They will get a lot of mental peace and rest. They also need love. Many children in the world miss their mothers. Children are working so hard; they need some true love from a spiritual, divine person.

So that’s why individual blessings are not just about touching something. They touch the Ajna chakra and Sahasrara chakra, the two chakras, awakening the energy centers. More peace and joy are transformed in their body through the subtle body. That is called the turiya body.

We are seeing the pearl inside, not the shell.

Rick: That was my experience with you. It always was. So when you interact with someone like that, giving darshan, or when you see a group of people you’re meeting with, how would your perception of them differ from that of an ordinary person? In other words, when you see a person, do you somehow see their whole makeup—not only the gross level but all the subtle levels of their makeup?

Amma: We are not seeing the shells of human life. We are seeing the subtle things inside—the subtle bodies, whether they are damaged or bright. We want to make them bright. That’s it. We are not seeing the external things; we are seeing the pearl inside, not the shell. Of course, shells are there.

People need more support—individual support, mental support, and love support. People are burning with problems. You never imagine what kind of problems exist in society. People don’t know that. But for two decades, I have been traveling physically in the world, touching so many people and directly listening to their stories, and it has been unbelievable.

Nobody ever imagined it. It was not even in the newspapers, on the TV channels, or in any other way. But direct human touch gives you more and more. The world needs more spirituality today. That is the healing for the burning challenges and pains in the world.

Rick: And in the case of someone like yourself, it’s obviously not just a physical touch. As you say, you’re seeing the damage in the subtle body, so I presume that you’re actually repairing the damage in the subtle body as you interact with people. Is that correct? There’s some kind of realignment taking place in the person.

Amma: Yes.

🕊️ A spiritual blossoming in the world

Rick: It is a very uplifting experience. Again, these days a lot of people around the world are experiencing spiritual awakenings to one degree or another. I talk to them every week, and we receive reports from people.

Sometimes it’s people who have been keenly interested in spirituality and have been doing spiritual practices for some time. Other times, it’s people who haven’t really even given spirituality a thought, and all of a sudden things start happening to them. Their lives start to blossom, and they begin searching for reasons or explanations for what they’re experiencing.

So I guess my first question here is: Do you see a kind of shift taking place in the world, in which there’s a springtime or an awakening of spirituality taking place all over the world?

Amma: Right now, so much awakening is taking place in our world—a lot of spiritual blossoming. I have been seeing all these years in the world that a lot of people need rest only in spirituality, not in regular things. I have been seeing so much spiritual blossoming in our world.

Rick: There’s that verse in the

Gita: “When Dharma is in decay and Adharma flourishes, I take birth.” So it would almost seem that we’ve reached a low point that threatens the very existence of our continued life on Earth, and God is responding with a spiritual blossoming.

Amma: You’re speaking about the Bhagavad Gita?

Rick: Yeah, yeah.

Amma: Yeah, whenever Adharma increases and Dharma declines, God has to descend and uplift society. Not only that, there are so many spiritual seekers seeking divine love. They have been waiting for innumerable lifetimes for communication with divine souls. That is not the only reason. Adharma, or unrighteous values, is of course a part of it, but there are so many reasons. Mother Earth is calling, and all the Pancha Bhootas are expecting God’s presence: the mountains, trees, animals, reptiles, and nature—everybody is expecting God’s presence in the world, not only human beings.

There is so much seeking in the world. That’s why divinity took a small form and comforted nature. It’s like—one word I can say is that it is not like going from room to room or continent to continent. Sanatana Dharma mentions that the total world is one family, not even an organization, not like an office, not like anything else. It is Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam—one family.

That family is not only the human race. The bird kingdom, the animal kingdom, the mountains, trees—everything is included. Wherever there is creation, the total creation is seeking God’s grace and divine grace. That’s why God has to bless the world and uplift beings from an animal body to another body, or from a bird’s body to another body. So many things are there; you cannot understand all of that.

Rick: Jesus said, “Whatsoever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me,” and so that would, as you say, include the birds and the reptiles and everything.

Amma: Yes.

Rick: Some people are kind of pessimistic and even depressed because it seems like we’re destroying our environment, with global warming and all. There are so many problems, any one of which could eradicate the human race, and yet we have many of them. Generally, people who have that perspective are not aware that there is some sort of spiritual renaissance taking place.

From your perspective, are you optimistic? Do you see a bright future for humanity the way things are going, or could it go either way even now?

Amma: This world was not created by negative people; this world was created by God. There is always hope. God is always taking care of this world like anything. People cannot understand that. They think, “I am going to create some disaster for people. I will do this planning, that planning.” All the negative people are already controlled. You know so many stories; I need not mention their names specifically. So much negativity has been controlled, and there is already a lot of peace in our world.

The problems are drug addiction, problems in society, and the human race suffering from a lot of cancer, AIDS, and, mainly, depression. Our world is suffering from depression. Depression is nothing but the failure of the mind. When you meditate, the mind disappears, and intellectual blossoming takes you toward higher levels of consciousness. People attain total peace.

Meditation is the only spirituality and truth. Slowly, people will understand. Maturity is needed. We cannot bring a small baby bird to blossom like a flower tomorrow. It takes time for people. It takes some time for all these things. That’s why negative people cannot work constantly in the world. God is taking care of all those things like anything. Everything is definitely controlled; negativity is definitely controlled. It is never going to continue like that.

There is always hope. God is always taking care of this world.

Rick: That’s good to hear. Sometimes it seems that the negative forces are very powerful—economic forces and various other things, governmental forces. They really seem to have so much control, and people wonder, “What effect can I have?” But I think what you’re saying is that obviously God is much more powerful than those forces.

Amma: Is that not so?

Rick: Yeah.

Amma: No matter how powerful governments and everything else are, God is more powerful than anything in the world.

Rick: On the subject again of people having awakenings—which seems to be happening more and more in the world—I’ve noticed that a lot of awakenings initially don’t have a lot of heart. They tend to be a little bit up and out, transcendental. You hear people running around saying things like, “I am not a person, and the world is an illusion,” and so on, and there’s not a lot of compassion or love blossoming in people.

Do you see that as a stage, and that perhaps a more mature level of spiritual awakening would begin to involve devotion, compassion, service, and those more heart-oriented qualities?

Amma: This is a tricky question, but I have to answer it. How much confusion there is in the world—some people never believe in God, some people believe in God, and sometimes people are in the highest consciousness. They don’t like… People today miss the human touch.

The first thing is that when you miss the human touch, sometimes people are not talking with the people around them at home. When you become more spiritual, your heart is completely with divinity. Love, wisdom, purity, and kindness—divine attributes—blossom completely. You are nothing but bliss, and your kindness and forgiveness are boundless.

Then, whatever you see, it doesn’t matter what it is—not only human beings, but animals, trees, plants, birds, anything—you are able to see only the divinity behind it, the divinity behind all things. That is the destination of spirituality.

When people attain this highest state, like Buddha, Jesus, or anyone else, they come absolutely down to the human level, and they want to share their love with all living beings. It doesn’t matter who they may be—all living beings.

Animals need our love. We have to protect all the animals. Nature is an international property; we have to protect the rivers. The rivers are shivering when they see mankind because people are using so many chemicals and fertilizers on Mother Earth. When the rain comes, all these pollutants enter the rivers, and the oceans are shivering when they see this pollution.

We have to be kind toward nature. Spirituality is the only remedy for bringing that kindness and greater compassion. Whenever people are spiritual, in any faith—it doesn’t matter what they believe, because God is oneness—they have to develop their own wisdom through their spiritual practices, whether through bhakti, knowledge, meditation, or anything else.

It doesn’t matter what faith they follow; what people need is inner beauty, purity, and greater kindness toward other people. Their words must be kind words, not unkind words. A lot of spiritual people speak unkind words. What is that? They have to speak kind, compassionate words. That is why the Vedas say, “Jihva me madhumattama”—speak sweeter words, like nectarine words.

Rick: Yeah, I think a key thing in what you just said is seeing the divinity in things. Obviously, it would seem to me that if you can see the divinity in things, then you’re naturally going to be kind. You wouldn’t intentionally harm God if you see God in the cat, the river, the trees, or whatever. You’re going to treat those things with the utmost respect.

Amma: Yes.

Recognizing divine beings

Rick: A couple of questions just came in. We’re livestreaming, so questions may come in as we’re speaking.

We were talking earlier about the idea of an avatar and the stories of Krishna, Rama, and others, where people weren’t able to recognize them for who they were and actually hated them, fought against them, opposed them, and so on. Someone sent in a question asking, “What makes a person incapable of recognizing an avatar on Earth? What is stopping one from knowing that, and how can we make our mind and heart such that we can appreciate Amma or any divine incarnation?”

Amma: Recognition of holy or divine persons is not necessary for them. They never expect human beings to recognize them. They want to do whatever is the purpose of their life. In what way they descended to the world and what the purpose of their life is—they know that.

They are going to be in the world for a very short time, sometimes. During that short lifetime, they decide what to do, whom to call toward them, and at what time. Everything is designed. They are not expecting human respect. Whether you reject them or respect them, both are the same to them.

As you read in the Bhagavad Gita, respect and disrespect are the same for them. They are not at the level of taking your respect or disrespect. They are beyond all these levels. Their focus is not on those things. Their focus is always on helping the world, giving peace to the world, supporting the world, healing the world, bringing wisdom to all hearts, and uplifting the people who are really seeking their support. That is their focus.

They never mind who is praising them or who is rejecting them—not any of those things.

Rick: That’s from the perspective of the divine incarnation. But from the perspective of the people who encounter them, I would rather have been Arjuna than Duryodhana. I would want to be a person who can appreciate such beings when they come around, rather than totally misunderstand them and miss that opportunity.

I guess the questioner was asking what we can do to better appreciate people such as yourself, in order to derive the blessings that such appreciation would bring.

Amma: Krishna is not a human being. He is absolute divinity. Even Arjuna and Duryodhana could not measure the depth of that divinity; they did not have that measurement in their hands.

You can measure the depth of the ocean, and you can measure how many stars there are, and all those things. But the Absolute, the divinity enveloping the entire cosmos, is measureless, timeless, and an absolute benediction beyond words. Words are not adequate to explain that divine truth, eternal peace, and bliss. So it doesn’t matter.

Rick: Okay. Here are a couple of questions somebody sent in—maybe two people.

“I struggle to feel love,” someone said. “I’ve discovered that I can feel it very strongly when meditating or on the brink of sleep, but hardly at all when I’m awake. How can I stop blocking my ability to feel it?”

Amma: They need more meditation. In front of the heart, there are innumerable curtains of I-ness: I-ness, meanness, and selfishness. All these curtains have to be burned through their sadhana and meditation.

Once all these things are eradicated or eliminated from the heart, automatically the fountain of bliss comes, and they experience absolute love within themselves. They are always in ananda.

Rick: There are many kinds of meditation. It’s almost like saying there are so many different kinds of liquid: orange juice has one effect, ammonia has another effect, and gasoline has another effect. You must teach a particular kind of meditation.

What do you recommend to somebody who would want to meditate? What should they do? What should they learn?

Amma: Let them know whatever they like. They have that wisdom because one quote is not suitable for all people. One medication is not suitable for all diseases. Let people act according to their maturity. Some children at a young age are very mature. Some people in their 80s are also not mature.

Again, I am not discouraging people, but maturity in spirituality is very important. For the gentleness and involvement needed to enter into the inner kingdom, people need inner wisdom. Everything is inside, not outside. They have to enter within and experience the inner values—inner love, inner joy, and inner peace. They have to open the inner kingdom through meditation.

They have to struggle, whatever their troubles may be. Definitely, if it is more intense, God will open the doors for them.

Rick: So, as you travel around—and we’ll be linking to your website so people can see what your tour schedule is—do you teach a form of meditation? If a person doesn’t know how to meditate and wants to learn, how would they be able to learn if they came to one of your visits or events?

Amma: In every city, we give meditation. We mainly teach meditation.

Rick: You give them a mantra or something?

Amma: A mantra also helps them focus. Simple mantras help them focus.

Rick: Here’s another question someone asked: What is the best way to receive Amma’s blessings of happiness, health, and prosperity? Openness, perhaps.

Amma: Mother is love. It is not necessary to ask Mother for anything. It is Mother’s responsibility to share all her love with her children, so that they may be more prosperous and peaceful and receive help. They need all those things from Mother only. That’s my responsibility.

Rick: In your biography, especially during your early years, all sorts of what we would call miracles were attributed to you. I remember there was one story I was reading last night where twelve men were trying to move a heavy safe that your father needed to move in order to get some files that had fallen behind it. They couldn’t move it, even after trying for an hour or so. Then you walked into the room and moved this big, heavy safe, and you were just a little girl. So what is a miracle, and what are the mechanics of it such that something like that could happen?

Amma: The subtle body can do anything.

Rick: So the subtle body can affect the gross world?

Amma: Yes, the subtle body can do anything.

Rick: And is that how Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, or raised the dead?

Amma: Yes, the subtle body—everything, all these things. It’s not a miracle; they are subtle-body things.

Rick: So the word “miracle” just means—I mean, a hundred years ago, if we saw a Boeing 747 fly over, we would say it was a miracle because we didn’t understand the laws of nature that enabled that to happen. So you would say, I guess, that being able to do something like what I just described is in accordance with certain laws of nature, but people just don’t understand those laws because they’re not commonly mastered by anyone. Is that correct?

Amma: Of course.

Rick: So these so-called miracles are not unnatural, right? They’re just natural occurrences for someone who has mastery of the subtle body. I think that’s what you’re saying.

Amma: This is actually not a miracle. Jesus also never performed any miracles. This is very natural for the divine.

Rick: Good, enough on that topic. Now, you have all sorts of wonderful humanitarian projects that you’re doing around the world, and especially in southern India. There’s something called the SMVA Trust, and I’ll just list some of the things you’re doing: empowering women and girls, educating poor children, eradicating hunger, providing access to clean drinking water, free medical care, and disaster relief. I think this is the natural expression of your love. I have a question or two about it, but would you care to comment before I ask those questions?

Amma: Yes.

Rick: Okay. One thing that occurred to me as I read about all of your activities is that it’s not enough just to teach spirituality to people. If they’re hungry, if they don’t have proper water, if they’re sick, or if they don’t have a roof over their heads, they’re not able to think much about spirituality. Are you attempting to provide a complete support system in which they have all these basic human necessities taken care of, and then, in addition to that, you can provide them spiritual sustenance and upliftment?

Amma: Yes, because when people are suffering with all of these physical problems and underprivileged circumstances, it is a human right to drink clean water and to have a small shelter. All these are human rights. So we just did small things.

Rick: Yes, but your efforts are not small. It seems that tens of thousands of people are benefiting from what you’re doing, and that’s really wonderful.

There are obviously non-spiritual organizations that do good things for people. There’s the Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, and things like that. But I get the sense—and I appreciate your comment on seva, or service to others, as a spiritual practice—that Doctors Without Borders is doing that because its members are people with good hearts. The people who are your volunteers and devotees, who are helping you accomplish all these projects, must have in mind, “This is a spiritual practice I’m doing; it’s conducive to enlightenment.” Can you comment on the difference between just trying to do good in the world and trying to do good from a spiritual perspective?

Amma: A lot of my children are very, very good. Some children don’t like to meditate, but they’re very, very good. They come to us and love us so much, and so we encourage them to do seva in society.

In the time of Sanatana Dharma, there were four entrance gates to enter into salvation. Karma Yoga, which is selfless service, is the greatest yoga for merging with the eternal. So people attain salvation through Karma Yoga also.

All yogas are the same. Selfless service is not possible for everybody, but some people are very selfless. As we mentioned about the Red Cross, they have done an incredible job, and many organizations in the world have done incredible work. We have to appreciate them.

Seva is very important. Seva with love is important. Seva with egolessness is very important. With egolessness, it is really equal to meditation.

Seva with egolessness is really equal to meditation.

Rick: I think Shankara may have said that you can’t attain salvation through acts alone. Is there a progression that takes place where, as you said, some people don’t like to meditate, so they do service? Does the service cultivate them to the point where they can then step into another phase of spiritual practice? Or do you feel that any one of these four paths can take a person all the way, and it’s not a matter of jumping from one path to a higher path?

Amma: All paths are the same and reach the same destination. Some people’s bodies are not suitable for meditation, so they do some seva. Some people like a devotional path, so they don’t like service and all those things. Some people are modern and like knowledge, and they spread knowledge and love. All the four paths are the same for attaining truth.

Patience, tolerance, and maturity

Rick: Good, that’s good to know. Here’s another question that came in:

“Lately, I’ve been practicing the following for some periods during the day: whatever comes up in me, no matter how unpleasant, with the intent and hope that it has a loving effect on the collective, even if on a subconscious level at first.”

That’s not a very clearly worded question:

“Do you think that it’s a helpful practice to raise the collective awareness of love by being our true nature?”

I hope you understand the question. I didn’t even quite understand it, but maybe you can get something from it. I think they’re saying that whatever comes up in them, even if it’s unpleasant, they hope to counteract it with an awareness of love so as to have a beneficial effect on the collective awareness and not contribute negativity to the collective awareness.

So, a simpler way of putting it is: How can we ensure that our influence in the world is positive, that we’re having a positive impact at all times, and not radiating any kind of negativity into the environment?

Amma: I got your question.

Rick: Thanks.

Amma: In any devotional path, you need patience to attain God. In selfless seva, you need patience. Patience is the greatest weapon. You also need patience on the meditation path to attain God-realization. It never happens overnight. Is anything going to happen overnight? No. It takes time, so that’s why patience is the greatest weapon.

When people have patience, then, even when any kind of negativity affects them along the way, they are able to tolerate it. Tolerance is the greatest boon for human life. All these attributes blossom in every direction—whether you follow selfless seva, Karma Yoga, the devotional path, the meditation path, or the path of knowledge.

On all four paths, everybody needs patience, not impatience. Automatically, in place of impatience, patience and tolerance come. These attributes naturally blossom inside. People are never influenced by the negativity around them. They give the fragrance of these attributes to other people.

Rick: I think this is very valuable, and it’s a valuable teaching for me as well. What is the best way of cultivating tolerance and patience and not being reactive if something pushes your buttons, so to speak? How can you avoid reacting inappropriately and just be tolerant, forgiving, and patient?

Amma: Maturity. Maturity gives you tolerance. If there is no maturity, immature minds immediately become impatient and speak very unpleasant words, and all those things happen. If you have maturity, tolerance and forbearance come, and you tolerate anything.

When Jesus was crucified, what did Jesus say? “Oh God, forgive these people.”

Rick: “They don’t know what they do.”

Amma: It is tolerance, forgiveness, forbearance, kindness, and compassion. Automatically, divinity is working in you. You are not working there; divinity is.

On the spiritual path, it doesn’t matter whether it is the path of selfless service, knowledge, devotion, or meditation. All paths are equally the same. In your path, whatever your faith may be, when you are going closer and closer to God within, in selfless seva you need patience. If you are shouting at people, how can you do seva?

Rick: So all these paths cultivate maturity, and then that maturity results in greater tolerance and patience. That’s what you said in a nutshell. Good.

The Lalita Sahasranama Mahayagna

Now, you have a Maha Mahayagyam planned for this summer to celebrate the completion of Sahasranama, a feat that took over 50 years to accomplish. Could you elaborate a little bit on what all that means? What is the Sri Lalita Sahasranama, and what will this Mahayagyam accomplish? What is it, and how can people participate?

Amma: This is a beautiful program that is going to happen in Georgia from May 29 to June 7. We finished two billion times. Actually, my biological mother started this program, and all of our disciples took part in it. Everybody chanted the Divine Mother’s names two billion times collectively.

Divine Mother means Shakti. Suppose if you are very tired, what do you say? “I have no energy.” You never say, “I have no Shiva, no Jesus, no Brahma.” You say, “I have no energy.” Energy is Shakti. Energy means Shakti. So this is a Shakti program. People collectively chanted the Shakti mantra two billion times.

The recitations of two billion times were not a one-day program. So I want to dedicate the culmination program for the sake of universal peace. That is why we took this program all the way to the Western countries.

In India, the Vedic scholars asked, “Why don’t you do this program in India?” In India, every state has yajnas, every city has programs, and spiritual programs are constantly happening. So many yajnas, in every city, every town, every village, and every temple—everywhere, all the time, programs are happening there.

But there are a lot of challenges here: divorce cases, women who are alone, loneliness among women, single mothers, abused women, and domestic violence against women. There are so many challenges for girls and for everybody.

Here, they need this program for the newborn babies in their mothers’ wombs. These vibrations are going to give them courage, peace, eternity, happiness, and joy. All these things are going to happen. That is why we brought this program here. This is a beautiful, beautiful peace program, especially for the entire universe. So I welcome all of you to this beautiful program. This is not for my sake; it is for all of your sake.

Rick: And so, a yajna, as I think you’ve explained, is the recitation or chanting. There must be different kinds of yajnas, but in this case it’s the recitation of the Sri Lalita Sahasranama, which is a thousand names of the Divine Mother, right? And the people who will be chanting this will be Westerners, as well as some of your swamis and Indian devotees. Is that correct?

Amma: Yes. If you people come for the program, you need not do any recitations there. The mantra has already been recited two billion times. Western people do not know how to do the mantra recitation. Lalita Sahasranama is a very advanced subject, and they don’t know how to do this. But some of my Western children already know Lalita Sahasranama. A lot of children know it.

Rick: My wife knows it.

Amma: If they know it, they can come and do the Lalita Sahasranama there. If they don’t know it, they need not worry about that. They can just come and sit there.

Rick: Sit and enjoy.

Amma: Enjoy the energy there, because the energy of the two billion mantra recitations is working, especially during the homa. Through the mantras, the homa mantras, they can enjoy. They need not do anything, but if they wish, they can participate in the yajna and do it with their own hands.

Water from 2,800 holy rivers is going to come here. All the kalasas are installed—one thousand kalasas. A kalasa means a holy vessel containing the waters of all these 2,800 rivers. All the pujas and ritualistic activities are going to happen there. After that, they take the kalasam and pour that water over each individual.

Rick: Are these rivers from around the world, or are they all different rivers from India?

Amma: From India and also from all over the world. The waters of these holy rivers are going to be poured over people’s heads for mental peace and the eradication of all kinds of stress, commotions, and disturbances of the mind.

Rick: And this will be in Atlanta?

Amma: Yes.

Rick: Okay, I’ll link to the website from my website so that people can check into it and possibly come if they want to. Is there more you’d like to say about this program, anything I haven’t thought to ask that you’d like people to know?

Amma: I want to say to all the people that this is a program especially dedicated to my girl children, because they are suffering so much—women especially. There is violence, human trafficking, and so many sad things here.

I am expecting mostly Black women to receive the benefit of this divine program. I am also expecting values to be sustained more in our world—inner values and spiritual values. Through this program, we are making the sankalpa to bring more peace, eternal happiness, joy, and good health to all.

Today, the world is suffering from a lot of mental depression, problems with cancer, and so many other challenges. This is a compassionate program.

Rick: I think Amma is introducing some concepts here that might be unfamiliar to some of the people listening. I think what she’s saying is that a chanting program like this—a yajna—is a spiritual mechanism that can have a profound influence on the environment and on the world. Such things have been understood in India for thousands of years.

So, if it’s a little unfamiliar or alien to our Western way of thinking, I would recommend that people keep an open mind, look into it a little bit, and be open to the possibility that a spiritual technology like this could really be very powerful. There are a couple of verses that I’d like to ask you about in conclusion.

Amma: Mechanism? All the words you are using…

Rick: I’m sorry, what? Technology?

Amma: Spiritual technology, spiritual mechanism.

Rick: Do you like that, or not?

Amma: It is okay.

Rick: I mean, it is sort of—you know, a computer is a technology. You do this, that, and the other thing with a computer, and it has certain effects. So what you’re doing with this, I would assume, is that there are certain prescribed ways of going about it. It’s almost like a recipe: you do this, and you do that. If you do it in the right way, it will have an effect.

I’m kind of comfortable with that way of thinking, but it’s good to try to express it in Western terminology to help people understand how it could be.

Amma: Son, it doesn’t matter—East or West, South or North. The total world is the same. Maybe all human thoughts are the same, and the human race is the same. White skin, brown skin, black skin—it doesn’t matter. The heart is the same. Women are the same.

I have felt this all these years. Wherever I have spoken with women—in Australia, Africa, the United States, Canada, Germany, and India—women have love toward their children. They have compassion, kindness, spirituality, and love. Everywhere, the same sun is shining. Women are so kind and powerful; they are Shakti.

That is why we welcome all the women from all over the world for this special program. They have to come and enjoy the program. Especially, two billion recitations are impossible to do again. It would take another sixty years to do this program. Some millions of people collectively did this program over all these years, so the vibrations are incredibly powerful.

It is going to change the vibrations of Mother Earth. Mother Earth needs more healing. Mother Nature needs more healing. The entire human race needs more healing—mental, physical, and spiritual healing at all levels.

So this Lalita Sahasranama Mahayagna is going to support the world tremendously. This is the most powerful yajna. It has never happened in Kali Yuga—never happened in Kali Yuga. It happened in other ages, in Krita Yuga, during Rama’s time and before Rama’s time.

Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatkumara, and Sanatsujata—these rishis—performed these homas in Naimisharanya, on the banks of the Ganga, and in the Himalayas. In those places, they performed the Lalita Sahasranama Homa especially.

In Kali Yuga, it has never happened—not even in

India: two billion recitations of Lalita Sahasranama. Why was I expecting this homa to take place in the Western countries? Because in the Western countries, I have seen more pain over all these years: more sadness, loneliness, women who are alone, single mothers, court problems, and a lot of pain.

This is the time for them to relax and stand on their own feet. They need education, sustainability programs for themselves, and self-confidence. They must not cry. They have to stand on their own feet like lionesses.

This program is meant to inspire and empower all women to be like lions and lionesses, to do great things in society and to fight their problems and challenges. They must not remain in tears and fear. They have to pierce through all the mountains of sadness, depression, and commotion and go to the other side.

That is why they need education, willpower, courage, and all of those things within themselves. Education brings self-confidence. Definitely, they will get good jobs. If they are financially okay, then 80 percent of their problems are going to be solved.

They have to stand on their own feet like lionesses.

Empowering the divine feminine

Rick: A lot of people say that many of the problems in our world are due to the fact that it has been a very male-dominated world. That includes domination over nature, as well as an egoistic orientation. What we really need is an awakening of the divine feminine in the world, and such an awakening is perhaps taking place.

I see what you’re doing as being very much in line with that perspective. Empowering women, as you say, is going to do more than just benefit those individual women. It could create a shift in world consciousness toward a more divine feminine collective consciousness, which could undercut so many of the problems and difficulties we’ve been creating for ourselves.

Amma: Women can live without a man. A man cannot live without a woman.

Rick: There’s a bumper sticker that says, “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

Amma: No, no, no, not necessary. So many single women in our world are taking care of their children. They are struggling so much, and they are doing so well. They are very powerful—very powerful.

This is the time for women to wake up, stand on their own feet, and empower themselves. They must not remain in depression, sadness, and tears. They have to fight their problems with a courageous heart, like a lioness. I am expecting a fearless world.

You mentioned the domination of men. Yes, it is true. All the time, you men are dominating. But women have a lot of power, focus, and concentration. All of these things are there. There is only physical energy in her body, so she has to connect with the Divine Mother. Then her energy is incredible.

She has to connect with the Divine Mother and Lalita Sahasranama. When she connects with the Divine Mother, impossible things are going to become possible.

Rick: That’s great. As we begin to conclude this interview, I’d like to ask you for your commentary on a couple of different scriptural quotes that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, to see what you think and what you have to say.

One is a verse from the Gita, which I’m sure you’ll be very familiar with: “There was never a time when I was not, nor you, nor these rulers of men, nor will there ever be a time when all of us shall cease to be.”

The reason that interests me is that, if we phrase it in terms of the Absolute, the Absolute is eternal and unchanging; it’s never going to change. But the way Lord Krishna phrased that, he was referring specifically to himself, to Arjuna, and to these rulers of men. It gives the impression that even as individual souls, we have an eternal nature with a very, very long and vast destiny. Is that your understanding? Is that your experience?

Amma: Every individual is really Brahman, divine, but because of the black curtains in front of the heart, they think they are this body, mind, and limitations. Once they enter into the kingdom of absolute oneness, there are no divisions at all. Everything is oneness only.

In that consciousness level, Krishna spoke those beautiful shlokas. He spoke at the consciousness level, and Arjuna was always at the body level, human level, and mental level. That is why he was not able to understand what Krishna spoke. He had to rise toward the highest level to attain the truth. He needed more spiritual maturity.

On behalf of the entire world, Krishna was giving this beautiful Bhagavad Gita. This is the essence of the four Vedas and all the thousand Upanishads. People cannot go to the Vedas; they cannot understand them. It is very profound knowledge. Again, the thousand Upanishads are not able to be understood by common people. They cannot understand those things—not the shlokas themselves, but because of a lack of maturity, word maturity.

If you read the Bible in the beginning, you cannot understand it. If you gain maturity, maturity, and more maturity, every day you get so much information from each word of Jesus. Similarly, people read the Bhagavad Gita 20 years ago, but that maturity was not there at that time. After that maturity comes, they gain innumerable understandings and innumerable insights, connect them to their lives, and experience wonderful things. Everything is spiritual maturity. It comes through inwardness. More inwardness is important.

Rick: Are people predestined to become awakened in a certain lifetime, or is it really a matter of choice, a matter of how one applies oneself to the task of awakening?

Amma: Awakening needs maturity again. Like a fruit: a small, unripe baby mango cannot be eaten immediately. It takes time to mature.

Rick: In conclusion, let me read one last verse. This is from the Chandogya Upanishad. It is a very beautiful verse, and I appreciate your commentary on it.

There is a light that shines beyond all things on earth, beyond us all, beyond the heavens, beyond the highest, the very highest heavens. This is the light that shines in our hearts. The little space within the heart is as great as the vast universe. The heavens and the earth are there, and the sun and the moon and the stars, fire and lightning, and the winds are there, and all that now is and all that is not. For the whole universe is in him, and he dwells within our heart.

Amma: Beautiful. I like the Chandogya Upanishad very much. “You are the light of all the lights. Your Supreme Self is the light of all the suns, moons, stars, galaxies, and the universe.” The supreme energy within our body is enveloping the entire universe and cosmos. So that light is the supreme Sun.

That is why the Chandogya Upanishad very beautifully mentions all these wonderful shlokas. Extremely beautiful. Meditate, experience that light, be one with that light, and enjoy the bliss. That is the destination of human life.

The destination is in front of you, and the truth is in front of you. You have to attain the truth. The goal is absolute bliss in this life. All the other things are secondary. If people are mature, they focus on that goal—to attain realization, or the Supreme Self, in this lifetime.

The goal is absolute bliss in this life.

Closing remarks

Rick: Beautiful. Well, thank you, Amma. I really appreciate your spending this time with us. You are touring the U.S. now, and I’ll be linking to your website from a page that I’ll put up on my website so that people can connect, look at your tour schedule, and see if you’re coming to their city or somewhere nearby.

I’ll also link to the website about the Mahayagna that you were describing. Obviously, there are contact forms and so on on your website, so people can get in touch and get a response if they have questions.

I really appreciate your spending the time. I want to make a couple of concluding remarks in general, and then I’ll let you go. This has been an interview with Amma Sri Karunamayi, and I’ve been honored to have her as my guest. I really appreciate Amma and what she’s doing in the world.

I conduct these interviews every week and have continued to do so. So, if you’re new to this show, feel free to go to www.BATGAP.com and explore the various menus there: past interviews, upcoming interviews, email sign-up, audio podcast, donate button, and all those things. It’s pretty simple. You can look around and enjoy.

So, thanks for listening or watching. Thank you again very much, Amma, for your time, and we will see everyone on the next show.

Amma: I love you so much, son. I love you so much, and I love all the viewers of this program. I just want to spread my love in this world. That’s it. Thank you so much.

Rick: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Amma: Bye.