Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with awake or awakening people. If you’d like more information or to explore the archive of previous shows, please go to batgap.com. I’m honored and blessed to have as my guest today Amma Sri Karunamayi. Several people have asked me which Amma I’ll be interviewing as there are several well-known Indian saints who are called Amma, but Amma just means mother in India. So there are hundreds of millions of Ammas, in India at least, but they can all count on their children on their fingers. Amma Sri Karunamayi is an embodiment of the Divine Mother and as such numbers her children in the billions if not trillions and she loves them in infinite measure. My wife and I have been to see her a number of times when she came to Iowa and Illinois and the love she radiates saturates the atmosphere and profoundly uplifts everyone present. So it’s a great joy and honor for me to have her on the show. Thank you for doing this Amma.
Amma: Love you so much son. Thank you so much.
Rick: Thank you. There are so many things we could cover and in this interview I hope to cover things that will be of interest both to people who’ve never seen Sri Karunamayi before and also to longtime devotees of hers. We’ll touch upon some aspects of her earlier life, we’ll explore a little bit what her current activities are, her humanitarian activities and we’ll talk a bit about the value of service and devotion. We will talk about a Mahayagya that she is organizing this summer and we’ll explain what that’s all about. And if we have time towards the end I’d like to ask Amma’s commentary on a couple of quotes, one from the Gita and one from the Chandogya Upanishad. So to start with, everyone listening to this show has heard of Ramana Maharshi and your parents – perhaps your mother in particular – were devotees of Ramana and your mother visited Ramana Maharshi shortly before he passed away and he told her that she would give birth to the mother of the universe, at least that’s what it says in your biography. So since it says that in your biography I guess I have to ask – are you an embodiment of the mother of the universe and please explain what the mother of the universe is.
Amma: How can you understand son?
Rick: Well if you explain maybe I’ll make an attempt.
Amma: Mother of universe is just love, compassion, kindness, forgiveness that is the love. Today our world is suffering so much with uncompassion and there is no kindness in the world. I think in United Nations, United States 70% girls are undergoing very very bad abusings, very worst abusings. This was the database collected by people. So, so many challenges in the society. Spirituality, divinity is only the solution for the healing hearts and the for wounded hearts. This healing is very important so that’s why I have to be with my kids in the world.
Rick: Are there many avatars in the world at the same time or is it fairly rare, or is it becoming more common in this day and age for embodiments of divinity to be born on earth?
Amma: It is not common so to uplift the society is not an easy job, so that’s why some, not so many.
Rick: So as a child all sorts of interesting things happened in association with your birth and after you were born at various very young ages people can read your biography to see all sorts of details but you showed very profound spiritual inclinations even as a very young child and you spent before long you were spending long periods of time in meditation. As you grew older it extended sometimes into days and even weeks in seclusion in deep meditation even without taking any food. And then ultimately you spent 11 or 12 years in the forest subsisting I believe on very little food and engaging in very long meditations. So what was the purpose of all this inner meditation? What sort of inner transformations were taking place in you perhaps in preparation for what you’re doing now?
Amma: Actually I know who I am. Before my birth I know who I am. So no necessary to do any sadhana for myself. But I just I was in myself, being in our self is… Jesus did tapas not for himself. All the austerities for the universal peace sake only. So if any holy persons meditated, that vibrations are traveling all over the world, gives immense peace, immense joy. Immediately holy persons are connected with the meditators – deep meditators. So that’s why also we did tapas, meditation. It’s not for our upliftment – for universal benefit.
Rick: So there was nothing you needed to gain from all that meditating. It was primarily to radiate an influence to the world?
Rick: And now obviously you’re in a much more active phase traveling all over the US and Europe, Canada, Asia, Australia, India engaged in all kinds of activities. So was this is this in an effort to sort of multiply the effect rather than you just sitting in a forest if you have an influence on thousands and thousands of people around the world then you can then through them you can have an even greater effect?
Amma: Actually both are same. So if physical presence is more influence on the people… Like anything people need love, compassion, direct communication. So we can do that but people need receptors in themselves. So only meditators can understand the higher levels of the consciousness, not all the regular people. People need more love, more compassion, more physical communication.
Rick: So in other words people need something they need your physical presence then they need interaction it’s too abstract to just try on their own without the blessings of someone like yourself is that what you’re saying?
Amma: Love, love. Not like a blessing, no. love… responsibility, love is a responsibility for the world. So world need so much love and compassion today because lot of people are standing in the world with the wounded hearts and unrest and commotion. The nature of Kali Yuga is too much worldliness. So many worldly things are diverting people from the truth. So some inspiration people need in their life. So when they have the communication with the spiritual things, immediately the diversion comes and they travel in the path of truth with the inspiration of seeing the spiritual people more.
Rick: I know that when we’ve been to see you there are a number of different aspects to the program and the whole thing is very uplifting. But the sweetest part I think is when people go up for individual darshan and you – at least when I was going – you would stroke their forehead in a very loving way and it had a very profound effect. Just one could feel oneself infused with peace and love and divinity. I wonder if you could explain the mechanics of that, and how is it? Is there a transmission taking place or is it more like two like one log is burning brightly and the other log is not burning so brightly, and the bright log gets the other log burning more brightly just by proximity?
Amma: Spiritual people body is not regular human body, their body is more subtle, more subtle, subtle energy is working there, not the body-mind-intellect. People are working with the subtle body. With the subtle body, subtle energy is touching them. So then so much unrest in their brain-mind – commotion, day-to-day life challenges – it was dispensed from their mind. They will get a lot of mental peace, rest. And so they need love also – lot of children in the world miss their mothers. And so children are working so hard, they need some true love from the spiritual divine person. So that’s why individual blessings is not laying – just not touching something like that. It is touching the Agnya chakra, Sahasrara chakra – the two chakras – awakening the energy centers and more peace and joy transform in their body through the subtle body. That is called Thuria body.
Rick: That was my experience with you, always was. So when you interact with someone like that giving darshan or when you see a group of people that you’re meeting with how would your perception of them differ from that of an ordinary person? In other words when you see a person do you somehow see their whole makeup not only the gross but all the subtle levels of their makeup?
Amma: We are not seeing the shells of human life, we are seeing the subtle things inside, subtle bodies damaged or bright. We want to make it bright that’s it not seeing the external things, we are seeing the pearl inside, not the shell not the shell, of course shells are there. People need more support – individual support, mental support, love support. People is burning problems. You never imagine what kind of problems are in the society. People don’t know that. But two decades onwards I was traveling physically in the world, touching so many people and directly listening their stories and it was unbelievable. Nobody never imagined. Even it was not in the newspapers, not in the TV channels, not in any way. But directly human touch gives you more and more. World need more spirituality today, that is the healing for the burning challenges, pains in the world.
Rick: And in the case of someone like yourself it’s obviously not just a physical touch like you say you’re seeing the damage in the subtle body so I presume that you’re actually repairing the damage in the subtle body as you interact with people – is that correct? There’s some kind of realignment taking place in the person.
Rick: It is a very uplifting experience. Again these days a lot of people around the world are experiencing spiritual awakenings to one degree or another. I talk to them every week and I we receive reports from people. Sometimes it’s people who have been keenly interested in spirituality and have been doing spiritual practices for some time, and other times it’s people who haven’t really even given a thought to spirituality and all of a sudden things start happening to them – their lives start to blossom and they begin searching for reasons or for explanations of what they’re experiencing. So I guess my first question here is do you see a kind of a shift taking place in the world in which there’s a springtime or an awakening of spirituality that’s taking place all over the place, all over the world.
Amma: Right now so much awakening is taking place in our world – lot of spiritual blossoming. I was seeing all these years in the world, a lot of people need the rest only in spirituality, not in regular things. So I was seeing so much spiritual blossoming in our world.
Rick: There’s that verse in the Gita – when Dharma is in decay and Adharma flourishes I take birth. So it would almost seem that we’ve reached a low point that threatens the very existence of our continued life on earth and God is responding with a spiritual blossoming.
Amma: You’re speaking about Bhagavad Gita?
Rick: Yeah, yeah.
Amma: Yeah, that is whenever the Adharma comes more and more and Dharma goes down then God have to come, descended and uplift the society. Not only that there’s so many spiritual seekers also seeking for their love, so they’re waiting innumerable lifetimes so for the communication with the divine souls. That is not only this reason. Not only the Adharma or unrighteous values – of course this is a part – but there are so many reasonings are there. Mother Earth is calling and so all the Pancha Bhootas are expecting innumerable… like mountains, trees and animals, reptiles, nature everybody is expecting God’s presence in the world, not only the human beings. So much seeking in the world. So that’s why the divinity just took a small form and comfort the nature. It’s like one word I can say this no like going room to room, not continent to continent. Sanatana Dharma mentioned so it is a total world, is a one family, not even organization, not like even office, not like anything. Like that Vasudhaika Kutumbam – one family. One family is not only the human race. The birds kingdom, animals kingdom, the mountains, trees – everything is included there. Wherever there is creation, the total creation is seeking for God’s grace and divinity grace. So that’s why God have to bless the world, and to uplift from animal body to other body or birds body to other body. So so many things are there, you cannot understand that.
Rick: Jesus said whatsoever you do unto the least of these you do unto me and so that would, as you say, include the birds and the reptiles and everything.
Rick: So some people are kind of pessimistic and even depressed because it seems like we’re destroying our environment, and global warming and all. So many problems, any one of which could eradicate the human race and yet we have many of them… yet generally people who have that perspective are not aware that there is some sort of spiritual renaissance taking place. From your perspective are you optimistic – do you do you see a bright future for humanity the way things are going, or could it go either way even now?
Amma: This world is not created by the negative people, this world is created by God. There is always hope. God is always taking care of this world like anything. So people cannot understand that. They think “I am going to do some disaster for people. I will do this planning, that planning”. All the negative people are controlled, already controlled, no? You know so many stories, I need not mentioned specifically their names. But so much negative was controlled and lot of peace already in our world. The problems are drug addiction, problems in the society, and human race suffering with a lot of cancer problems, AIDS problems, and mainly depression. our world, suffering with the depression. Depression is nothing but the unsuccess of the mind. So when you meditate, mind is disappeared and intellectual blossoming going to take you towards the higher levels of the consciousness. People attain total peace and peace. So medication is only spirituality and truth only. So slowly people will understand, maturity need. So we cannot bring the small baby bird tomorrow to blossom like a flower. It took time for the people. It takes some time for all of these things, no? So that’s why the negative people cannot work constantly in the world. So God is taking care of all those things like anything, everything is definitely controlled, negativity definitely controlled. It’s never going to be continue like that.
Rick: That’s good to hear. Sometimes it seems that the the negative forces are very powerful and economic forces and various other things – the governmental forces – they really seem to have so much control and people wonder “well, what effect can I have?” But I think what you’re saying is that obviously God is much more powerful than those.
Amma: Is it not?
Amma: How much powerful governments and everything, God is more powerful than anything in the world.
Rick: So on the note again of people having awakenings – which seems to be happening more and more in the world – I’ve noticed that a lot of the awakenings initially are kind of not don’t have a lot of heart, they tend to be a little bit up and out transcendental. You hear people running around saying things like “well, I am not a person and the world is an illusion” and so on, and there’s not a lot of compassion or love or anything like that blossoming in people. Do you see that as a stage and that perhaps a more mature level of spiritual awakening would begin to involve devotion and compassion and service and those more heart-oriented qualities?
Amma: This is a tricky question but I have to give it. So what… how much world is people have confusions and people never believe God and people believe God and sometimes people are in highest consciousness and they don’t like… people today miss the human touch. First thing when you miss the human touch sometimes people are not talking with the people around them in the home. When you are more spiritual your heart is completely with the divinity. Love, wisdom, purity, always kindness – divine attributes are blossomed like anything. You are nothing but bliss only there, and your kindness or forgiveness is like anything. So then whatever you are seeing doesn’t matter. Not only the human beings, animals, trees, plants, birds, anything we’re able to see only the divinity behind that, divinity behind the things. That is the destination of the spirituality. So when people attain this kind of highest state like Buddha, Jesus, anybody, no? They comes down – absolutely down – to the human level and they want to share their love to all the living beings. It doesn’t matter whoever they may be – living beings any any living being. So animals love need our love, no? We have to protect all the animals, international property, we have to protect the rivers. Rivers are shivering to see the mankind because they’re using lot of chemicals and fertilizers on the mother earth. When rain comes, all the rivers are getting all this come pollution and oceans are shivering by seeing this pollution. So we have to be kind towards the nature. Spirituality is only the remedy to bring that kindness and more compassion. So whenever people are spiritual in any faith – it doesn’t matter whatever they believe, God is oneness only it doesn’t matter – they have to have their own wisdom in their spiritual practices in bhakti, knowledge, meditation path or anything. It doesn’t matter any faith also, but what people need is inner beauty, purity – more kindness towards other people. And let their words must be kind words, not unkind words. Lot of spiritual people are speaking unkind words. What it is? They have to speak kind words, compassionate words. So that is that’s why in the Vedas “jihva me madhu mattama” – speak sweeter words like nectarine words.
Rick: Yeah, I think a key thing in what you just said is seeing the divinity in things, because obviously it would seem to me that if you if you can see the divinity in things then you’re going to naturally be kind. You wouldn’t intentionally harm God if you see God in the cat or in the river or in the trees or whatever. Then you’re going to treat those things with the utmost respect.
Rick: A couple of questions just came in. We’re live streaming and so questions may come in as we’re speaking. We were talking earlier about the idea of an avatar and this stories with Krishna and Rama and others where people weren’t able to recognize them for who they were and actually hated them and fought against them and opposed them and so on. So someone sent in a question saying what is it makes a person incapable of recognizing an avatar on earth? What is stopping one from knowing that, and how to make our mind and heart such that we can appreciate Amma or any divine incarnation?
Amma: It is not necessary your recognition for the holy persons, the divine persons. They never expect the human beings recognization. They want to do what the purpose of their life. So what way they descended to the world and what the purpose of their life they know. That the very short time they’re going to be in the world, very short time sometimes. So the short time of the life they decided what to do, whom to call towards them, and what time – everything is designed. Everything designed. Yhey are not expecting human respects, or if you reject them, respect them, both are same. So like in you read in Bhagavad Gita, know the respect and disrespect are same for them. They’re not in the level of the taking your respect or your disrespects and all, not in that mental level. They are beyond all these levels, they never… Their focusing is not on these things, their focusing is on that all the time to help the world, to give peace to the world, to support the world, to heal the world, to be wisdom to all the hearts, to uplift the people who is really seeking the support from them. That is their focusing. They never mind who is praising them, who is rejecting them – not all those things.
Rick: Now that’s from the perspective of the divine incarnation. But from the perspective of the people who encounter them, “I would rather have been Arjuna than Duryodhana, I would rather have… I would want to be a person who can appreciate such beings when they when they come around and not totally misunderstand them and miss that opportunity”. So I guess the questioner was asking what can we do to better appreciate people such as yourself and in order to derive the blessings that such appreciation would would bring.
Amma: Krishna is not a human. Like divinity, he is absolute. So even Arjuna, Duryodhana cannot measure the depth of the divinity, they have not that measurements in their hand. It is, you can measure the oceans depth, you can measure how many stars there and all those things. But the enveloping the entire cosmos – the absolute, the divinity is a measureless timeless absolute benediction beyond words, words are not adequate to explain those divine truth and eternal peace and bliss externally. So it doesn’t matter.
Rick: Okay. Here’s a couple of questions somebody sent in maybe two people. Okay. “I struggle to feel love”, someone said. “I’ve discovered that I can feel it very strongly when meditating or on the brink of sleep, but hardly at all when I’m awake. How can I stop blocking my ability to feel it?”
Amma: More meditation they need. So because in front of the heart the innumerable I-ness curtains are there – the I-ness, meanness, selfishness curtains – all these curtains have to burn through their sadhana, meditation. When once all of these things are eradicated or eliminated from their heart, automatically the fountain of bliss comes, and they experience the absolute love within themselves, they’re always in the ananda only.
Rick: Now there are many kinds of meditation as almost as almost like saying there are so many different kinds of liquid, and orange juice has one effect and ammonia has another effect and gasoline has another effect. So you must teach a particular kind of meditation. What do you recommend to somebody who would want to meditate, what should they do, what should they learn?
Amma: Let them know whatever they like they have to… they have that wisdom because one quote is not suitable to all the people. One medication is not suitable for all the diseases. Let people according to their maturity maturity, no… Some children in the young age, they’re very matured. Some people in the 80th age also they’re not matured. So they… it doesn’t… So again I am not discouraging people but maturity in spirituality is very important. So the gentleness, involvedness to enter into the inner kingdom – people need inner wisdom. Everything is inside only, not outside. They have to enter into the inside and experience the inner values – inner love, inner joy, inner peace. They have to open the inner kingdom through meditations. So let… they have to struggle whatever their trouble. Definitely if it is more intense God will open the doors for them.
Rick: So as you travel around – and we’ll be linking to your website so people can see what your tour schedule is – do you teach a form of meditation? So if a person doesn’t know how to meditate and they want to learn how would they be able to learn – if they came to one of your visits, one of your events?
Amma: We are giving, every city we have meditation, we are teaching mainly meditations only.
Rick: You give them a mantra or something?
Amma: Mantra also gives more focusing for them. Simple mantras focusing for them.
Rick: Here’s another question someone asked – what is the best way to receive Amma’s blessings of happiness health and prosperity? Openness perhaps.
Amma: Mother is love, no necessary to ask anything mother. Mother responsibility to share all her love to her children to be more prosperous and peace and help. they need all those things from mother only. That’s my responsibility.
Rick: In your biography, especially during your early years, all sorts of what we would call miracles were attributed to you. I remember there was one story I was reading last night where 12 men were trying to move a heavy safe that your father needed to move to get some files that had fallen behind it. And no, and they couldn’t move it they tried for an hour or something. And then you walked in the room and moved this big heavy safe and you were just a little girl. So what is a miracle and what are the mechanics of it such that something like that could happen?
Amma: Subtle body can do anything.
Rick: So subtle body can affect the gross world?
Amma: Yes, subtle body can do anything.
Rick: And is that how Jesus walked on water or healed the sick or raised the dead?
Amma: Yes, subtle body, everything, all these things. It’s not a miracle, subtle body things.
Rick: So the word miracle just means… I mean a hundred years ago if we saw a Boeing 747 fly over we would say it was a miracle because we didn’t understand the laws of nature that were enabling that to happen. So you would say I guess that being able to do something like what I just described is in accordance with certain laws of nature but people just don’t understand those laws because they’re not commonly mastered by anyone, is that correct?
Amma: Of course.
Rick: Yeah, so these so-called miracles are not unnatural, right? They’re just natural occurrences for someone who has mastery of the subtle body. I think that’s what you’re saying.
Amma: This is actually not, Jesus also never done any miracles. This is very natural for the divine.
Rick: Good, enough on that topic. Now you have all sorts of wonderful humanitarian projects that you’re doing around the world and especially in southern India. There’s something called the SMVA Trust and I’ll just list some of the things you’re doing. Empowering women and girls, educating poor children, eradicating hunger, providing access to clean drinking water, free medical care, disaster relief. And I think this is the natural expression of your love. I have a question or two about it but would you care to comment before I ask those questions?
Rick: Okay, well one thing that occurred to me as I read of all of your activities is that it’s not enough to just teach spirituality to people. Because if they’re hungry, if they don’t have proper water, if they’re sick, they can’t even, if they don’t have a roof over their head, they’re not able to think much about spirituality. So are you kind of attempting to provide a complete support system in which they have all these basic human necessities taken care of, and then in addition to that you can provide them spiritual sustenance and upliftment?
Amma: Yes, because when people are suffering with all of these physical problems like underprivileged circumstances – it is a human right to drink clean water, to have a small shelter, all these are the human rights. So we just did small things.
Rick: Yeah, but your efforts are not small. I mean it seems that tens of thousands of people are being benefited by what you’re doing and that’s really wonderful. Now there are obviously non-spiritual organizations that do good things for people. There’s the Red Cross, there’s Doctors Without Borders and things like that, but I get the sense and I appreciate your comment on Seva or service to others as a spiritual practice. I mean Doctors Without Borders are doing that because they’re people with good hearts, but the people who are your volunteers, your devotees who are helping you accomplish all these projects, they must have in mind that this is a spiritual practice I’m doing, it’s conducive to enlightenment. Can you comment on the difference between just trying to do good in the world and trying to do good from a spiritual perspective?
Amma: A lot of my children are, some children don’t like to meditate also, but they’re very very good, very very good. They come to us and love us so much and so we encourage them to do Seva in the society. And there are in Sanatana Dharma time, there are four entrance gates to enter into salvation. Karma Yoga, that’s the selfless service is the greatest yoga to merge with eternal. So people attain salvation through Karma Yoga also. So all yogas are same, selfless service everybody cannot do, so it is not possible for everybody, but some people are so selfless, like we mentioned about Red Cross, so they did incredible job and lot of organizations in the world, they did incredible jobs, so we have to appreciate them. So Seva is very important, Seva with love is important, Seva with egolessness is very important, egolessness, then it is really equal to meditations.
Rick: I think Shankara may have said that you can’t attain salvation through acts alone, is there a progression kind of thing which takes place where you said some people don’t like to meditate so they do service, does the service sort of culture them to the point where they can then step to another phase of spiritual practice or do you feel that any one of these four paths that you mentioned can take a person all the way and it’s not a matter of jumping from one path to a higher path?
Amma: All paths are same, reach the same destination. So some people body is not suitable for meditations, so they know some Seva, some people like a devotional path, so they don’t like service and all those things, so some people are modern people like in knowledge and they’re giving spreading knowledge and love, all those things, so all the four paths are same to attain truth.
Rick: Good, that’s good to know. Here’s another question that came in, “Lately I’ve been practicing the following for some periods during the day, whatever comes up in me no matter how unpleasant with the intent and hope that it has a loving effect on the collective be it on a subconscious level at first”. That’s not a very clearly worded question, “Do you think that it’s a helpful practice to raise the collective awareness of love by being our true nature?” I hope you understand the question, I didn’t even quite understand it, but maybe you can get something from it. I think that they’re saying that whatever comes up in them, even if it’s unpleasant, they hope to counteract it with an awareness of love so as to have a beneficial effect on the collective awareness and not be a contributor of negativity to the collective awareness. So that’s a simpler way of putting it, how can we ensure that our influence in the world is positive, that we’re having a positive impact at all times and not radiating any kind of negativity or you know into the environment.
Amma: I got your question.
Amma: Any devotional path you need patience to attain God. In selfless seva you need patience. Patience is a greatest weapon. You need meditation path also patience to attain God realization. It never happened overnight. Anything is going to happen overnight? Not. It took time, so that’s why patience is a greatest weapon. When people have patience then any kind of the negativity affecting in their way they’re able to tolerate that. Tolerance is the greatest boon for human life. So all these attributes are blossom in all of these directions – wherever you go in a selfless seva, karma yoga or in devotional path or in meditational path or in path of knowledge. In four paths also everybody need not impatience, patience. Automatically in the place of impatience, patience comes and tolerance comes. These attributes are naturally blossom inside. People never influenced by the negativity around them. So they are giving the fragrance of these attributes to other people only.
Rick: And so… I think this is very valuable and it’s valuable teaching for me as well. What is the best way of cultivating tolerance and patience and not being reactive if something pushes your buttons, so to speak. How can you avoid reacting inappropriately and just be tolerant and forgiving and patient.
Amma: Maturity, maturity. Maturity gives you tolerance. If there is no maturity, immature minds are immediately they get impatience and spoke very not good words and all the things they happen. If you got maturity, tolerance comes, forbearance comes and you tolerate, you tolerate anything also. When Jesus was crucified, what Jesus told, Oh God forgive this people.
Rick: They don’t know what they do.
Amma: It is tolerance, forgiveness, forbearance, kindness, compassion. So automatically the divinity is working in you. You are not working there. Divinity. In spiritual path, it doesn’t matter the selfless path, knowledge path, devotional path and meditation. All paths are respectively same. In your path, any faith also, when you are going closer and closer to God inside in the selfless seva, you need patience. If you are shouting people, how can you do seva?
Rick: And so all these paths culture maturity and then that maturity results in greater tolerance and patience. That’s what you said in a nutshell. Good. Now you have a Maha Mahayagyam planned for this summer to celebrate the completion of Sahasranama, a feat that took over 50 years to accomplish. Could you elaborate a little bit on what all that means? What is the Sri Lalita Sahasranama and what will this Mahayagyam accomplish? What is it and how can people participate?
Amma: This is a beautiful program is going to happen in Georgia in month of May 29th to June 7th. We finished 2 billion times. Actually my biological mother, she started this program and all of our disciples took this program and everybody chanted 2 billion times of Divine Mother names. and collectively Divine Mother means Shakti. So suppose if you are so tired, what you say is I have no energy. No, “I have no Shiva, no Jesus, no Brahma”. You never say that. “I have no energy”. Energy is Shakti. Energy means Shakti. So this is Shakti program. 2 billion times Shakti mantra people chanted collectively. recitations of the 2 billion times not one-day program. So the culmination program I want to dedicate for the universal peace sake. So that’s why we took this program all the way to Western countries. In India, Vedic scholars they told why don’t you do this program in India. In India every state we have yajnas, every city we have programs – spiritual programs are constantly happened in India. So many yajnas, every city, every town, every village, any temple everywhere all the programs all the time happened there. But here lot of challenges here. So the divorces cases and womens are alone, loneliness for the womens and single mothers, abused womens and domestic violence for the womens. So many challenges girls and all the people know. So here they need this program for the newborn babies in the mother’s womb. These vibrations are going to give them courage, peace, eternity, happiness, joy. All these things are going to happen. So that’s why we brought this program here and this is a beautiful beautiful peace program especially for the entire universe. So welcome all of you for this beautiful program and this is not for my sake, for all of your sake.
Rick: And so a yajna then I think you’ve explained is the recitation or the chanting. I mean there must be different kinds of yajnas but in this case it’s the recitation of the Sri Lalita Sahasranam which is a thousand names of Mother Divine, right? And the people who will be chanting this, they will be Westerners as well as some of your Swamis and Indian devotees, is that correct?
Amma: Yes, they need not… if you people comes for the program, they need not do any recitations there. Already the mantra recitation done two billion times. Nobody knew all the Western babies don’t know how to do the mantra recitation. Lalita Sahasranama is very high subject and they don’t know how to do this. but some of my Western children already know Lalita Sahasranama. A lot of children know it.
Rick: My wife knows it.
Amma: If they know it, they can come and they can do the Lalita Sahasranama there. If they don’t know that they need not worry about that. So just they come and sit there.
Rick: Sit and enjoy.
Amma: Enjoy the energy there, because the two billion times of the mantra recitations energy is working in the Homa time especially. So through the mantras, Homa mantras, so they have to enjoy. They need not do anything but they can, if they wish, they can do the yajna, they can do with their own hands. 2800 rivers of the holy rivers waters are going to come here. So all the Kalasas are installed in thousand Kalasas. Kalasa means a holy vessel contain all these 2800 rivers’ waters in that. All the pujas and everything ritualistic things are going to happen that. After that they took that Kalasam and pouring that waters on the individual.
Rick: These are rivers from around the world, all different rivers or just from India?
Amma: From India and also all over the world. So this holy rivers waters are going to pour on the people head for the mental peace and the eradication of the all kind of the stress and commotions and disturb their mind.
Rick: And this will be in Atlanta?
Rick: Okay, I’ll link to the website from my website so that people can check into that and possibly come if they want to. Is there more you’d like to say about that, that performance? Anything I haven’t thought to ask about that that you’d like people to know?
Amma: I want to say to all the people this is the program especially I dedicated for my girls children because they’re suffering so much – women especially. The violence and all the problems human trafficking and so many sad things here. I’m expecting mostly black women have to get the benefit by this divine program and also I am expecting the values to be in our world – values, inner values, spiritual values inner values have to be more sustained in the world. Through this program we are doing the sankalpa to bring more peace and eternity happiness joy, good health to all, health to all. Today world is suffering with lot of mental depression and problems cancer challenges and so many challenges there. So it is a compassionate program.
Rick: I think Amma is introducing some concepts here that might be unfamiliar to some of the people listening, but I think what she’s saying is just that a chanting program like this, a yajna, is a spiritual mechanism which can have a profound influence on the environment, can have a profound influence on the world. And such things have been understood in India for for thousands of years. So if it’s a little unfamiliar or alien to our Western way of thinking I would just recommend people to keep an open mind and look into it a little bit and be open to the possibility that a spiritual technology like this could really be very powerful. There’s a couple of verses that I’d like to ask you in conclusion.
Amma: Mechanism… all the words you are using…
Rick: I’m sorry, what? Technology?
Amma: Spiritual technology, spiritual mechanism.
Rick: Do you like that or no?
Amma: It is OK.
Rick: I mean it is sort of… you know a computer is a technology. You do this that and the other thing, and you have a computer and it has certain effects, so what were you what you’re doing with this I would assume is that there are certain prescribed ways of going about it and it’s almost like a recipe. You do this… You do it in the right way and it will have an effect. I mean I’m kind of comfortable with that that way of thinking but it’s kind of good to try it in Western terminology to help people understand how it could be.
Amma: Son, it doesn’t matter East or West, South and North, total world is… maybe all the human thoughts are same, human race is same, white skin, brown skin, black skin, it doesn’t matter, heart is same, women is same. I felt all these years women wherever I spoke with the women Australia women, African women, US women, Canada women, Germany, India. Women have love towards their children, they have compassion, they have kindness, they have spirituality, they have love, everywhere same Sun, women is so kind, powerful, she Shakti. So that’s why we welcome all the women all over the world for this special program. They have to come, enjoy the program. Especially, two billion times impossible to do this mantras again, it is impossible it will take one more 60 years to do this program, some millions of people together collectively did this program all these years, so the vibrations are incredibly powerful. It is going to change the vibrations of the mother earth. Mother earth need more healing, the mother nature need more healing, our all the entire human race need more healing – mental, physical, spiritual in all levels, so this Lalita Sahasranama Mahayagna is going to support it this world like anything. So this is the most powerful yajna, never happened in Kali Yuga, never happened in Kali Yuga. It happened in other ages in Krita Yuga, Rama time, before Rama time, Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatkumara Sanatsujata, these Rishis did this homas in Naimisharanya place, on the riverbanks of Ganga, in Himalayas. In those places they did the homa Lalita Sahasranama Homa especially. And in the Kali Yuga never happened – even in India also – two billion times Lalita Sahasranama. So why I was expecting that homa in the Western countries, because in the Western countries more pain I saw all these years, more sadness, loneliness, womens are alone, they have so many challenges and the single mothers and court problems and lot of pain in the… So this is the time they have to relax, they have to stand on their legs, they need education, they need sustainability programs for themselves, they need self-confidence in themselves, they must not cry, they have to stand on their legs like a lioness. So this is the program for them to inspire and empowering all the women to be like a lions and lionesses, to do great things in the society, to fight with the problems, challenges, they must not remain with the tears and fear. They have to pierce all the mountains of the sadness, depression, commotions and they have to go to the other side. So that’s why they need education and willpower, courage, all of those things themselves. So education brings self-confidence in them, definitely they will get good jobs, if they are financially okay, then all the problems are 80% problems are going to solve for them.
Rick: A lot of people say that a lot of the problems in our world are due to the fact that it’s been a very male- dominated world, which includes domination over nature and just sort of an egoistic orientation and that what we really do need is an awakening of the divine feminine in the world and that such an awakening is perhaps taking place, so I see what you’re doing to be very much in line with that perspective, that empowering women as you say is going to do more than just benefit those individual women, it could create a shift in the world consciousness to a more divine feminine collective consciousness, which could undercut so many of the problems and difficulties we’ve been creating for ourselves.
Amma: Women can live without a man, a man cannot live without a woman.
Rick: There’s a bumper sticker that says a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
Amma: No, no, no, not necessary. So many single women in our world they are taking care of their children and they’re struggling so much and they are doing so well and they’re very powerful, no, and very powerful. So this is the time women have to wake up and stand on their legs and empower themselves, and they must not remain in depression and sadness and tears. And they have to fight with the problems with courageous heart like a lioness and I’m expecting fearless world. You mentioned about the domination of the men, yes, true, no? It’s true, all the time you are dominating – all of your men. So we have more power, women have a lot of focusing, power, concentration, all of these things. Just only the physical energy in her body, so she have to connected with the Divine Mother, then her energy is incredible, she have to connected with the Divine Mother, Lalita Sahasranama. So that’s why when she connected with the Divine Mother, impossible things are going to be possible.
Rick: That’s great. As we begin to conclude this interview I’d like to ask you your commentary on a couple of different scriptural quotes that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, see what you think, see what you have to say. One is a verse from the Gita which I’m sure you’ll be very familiar with both of these, “There was never a time when I was not, nor you, nor these rulers of men, nor will there ever be a time when all of us shall cease to be”, and the reason that interests me is that, you know, if we phrase it in terms of the Absolute, okay, the Absolute is eternal, unchanging, it’s never going to change, but the way Lord Krishna phrased that, he was referring specifically to himself, to Arjuna, to these rulers of men, and it kind of gives the impression that even as individual souls we have an eternal nature that just has a very very long, vast destiny. Is that your understanding? Is that your experience?
Amma: Every individual is really Brahman, divine, but because of the black curtains in front of the heart, they think this body, mind, and limitations. Once they enter into the kingdom of the Absolute Oneness, there is no divisions at all. Everything is oneness only. In that consciousness level, Krishna spoke that beautiful slokas. In the consciousness level He spoke, and Arjuna is always in the body level, human level, mental level, so that’s why he was not able to understand what Krishna spoke. He had to rise towards the highest level to attain the truth. He needed more spiritual maturity. So on behalf of the entire world, Krishna was giving this beautiful Bhagavad Gita. This is the essence of the four Vedas, all the thousand Upanishads. So people cannot go to the Vedas, they cannot understand that. It was very profound knowledge and then again in the Upanishads, thousand Upanishads are not able to understand by the common people. They cannot understand those things because it is not the slokas I’m not speaking, the maturity, the words maturity. If you read Bible in the beginning, you cannot understand. If you get maturity, maturity and maturity, every day you got so much information from each word of Jesus. Similarly, Bhagavad Gita people read 20 years before, that maturity was not there at that time. After through that maturity comes and innumerable understandings they got and innumerable informations and they connected in the life and they experience wonderful things. Everything is spiritual maturity. It comes by the inwardness, more inwardness important.
Rick: Are people predestined to become awakened in a certain lifetime or is it really a matter of choice, a matter of how one applies oneself to the task of awakening?
Amma: Awakening need maturity again. Like a fruit, small baby mango, cannot eat immediately. It takes time for the maturity.
Rick: In conclusion let me read one last verse. This is from the Chandogya Upanishad. It’s a very beautiful verse and I appreciate your commentary on it. “There is a light that shines beyond all things on earth, beyond us all, beyond the heavens, beyond the highest, the very highest heavens. This is the light that shines in our hearts. The little space within the heart is as great as the vast universe. The heavens and the earth are there and the sun and the moon and the stars, fire and lightning and the winds are there and all that now is and all that is not. For the whole universe is in him and he dwells within our heart”.
Amma: Beautiful. I like Chandogya Upanishad very much. “You are the light of all the lights. Your supreme self is the light of all the suns, moon, stars, galaxies, universe”. The supreme energy within our body is enveloping the entire universe and the cosmos. So that light is only the supreme Sun. So that’s why Chandogya Upanishad very beautifully mentioned all these wonderful slokas. Extremely beautiful. Meditate, experience that light, be one with that light, enjoy the bliss. That is the destination of human life. So the destination is in front of you, truth is in front of you. You have to attain the truth, goal is only the absolute bliss in this life. All the other things are secondary. If people are matured, they are focusing on that goal to attain realization or the supreme self in this lifetime.
Rick: Beautiful. Well thank you Amma. I really appreciate your spending this time with us. And you are touring the US now and so I’ll be linking to your website from a page that I’ll put up on my website so that people can connect and look at your tour schedule and see if you’re coming to their city or you know somewhere nearby. And I’ll also link to the website about the Mahayagna that you were describing and obviously there are contact forms and so on on your website so that people can get in touch and get a response if they have questions and all. So I really appreciate your spending the time. I want to make a couple of concluding remarks in general and then I’ll let you go. This has been an interview with Amma Sri Karunamayi, and I’ve been honored to have her as my guest. I really appreciate Amma and what she’s doing in the world. I conduct these interviews every week and have done continuing to do them. So if you’re new to this show, feel free to go to www.BATGAP.com and explore the various menus there, past interviews, upcoming interviews, email sign up, audio podcast, donate button, all those things. It’s pretty simple, you can look around and enjoy. So thanks for listening or watching. Thank you again very much Amma for your time and we will see everyone on the next show.
Amma: Love you so much son. I love you so much and all the viewers for this program. I want to just spread my love in this world. That’s it. Thank you so much.
Rick: Thank you. Bye bye.