This rough draft generated by Otter.ai contains errors. If you would like to correct them, or join our team of volunteer proofreaders, please contact me.
Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week is Julie chimes. And Julie’s the sort of person that you interact with your food, have her with her a few times and you feel like she’s an old chumps, you’re just such a kind of friendly, delightful person. So I’ve really been enjoying getting to know Julia a little bit over the last few weeks. And I also read her book, which is called a stranger in paradise. And Julie had a spiritual awakening of sorts, in a way that most of us would not choose to do. She was a victim of murder, or an attempt at someone who’s attempting to murder her, who stabbed her repeatedly and nearly killed her. And in the process of that Julie had a rather remarkable experience, which changed her life. And she can tell that story better than I can. So I’m going to turn it right over to Julie. Oh, and incidentally, apparently other people who have interviewed Julie, Julie really wanted to focus on the murder itself or the the, you know, attempted murder and get into as much gory detail as possible. And that won’t be our focus, although we’ll have our share of gory detail. But I think in the context of this show, the, you know, the spiritual experience she had as a result of this, and the kind of the inner transformation that occurred in her life are far more significant. So that’s what we’ll primarily focus on. So thanks, Julie, welcome. And thanks for bearing with me, as we overcame all sorts of technical difficulties to get this thing going.
Julie Chimes: Hello, Ricky. It’s a real, it’s a real pleasure to be here at last into the technology business.
Rick Archer: Made me an expert. Yeah, really. So where would you like to start? You want to give a little bit of background, you know, before the the incident, just to sort of give us a context of what your life was like, and where you came from, what you’ve been through, and all that stuff.
Julie Chimes: Okay. Potted history of the life. Because I think, I think the most, the most interesting thing about all of this is that I wasn’t looking for spiritual experience. I wasn’t on, I wasn’t aware of being on a path or searching. I was simply a businesswoman in London, doing what in the 80s, I believed the things that were important. I had a career, I had a good relationship with my partner who was a doctor and all the accoutrements of a successful life of that particular era. And yet, there was something within me that wasn’t happy with all of that as well, I there’s something was missing, but I didn’t know what and I, but I wasn’t searching for it. But I was aware that having all of these things was not necessarily making me as content and as happy as I thought I should be. So in, in that context, we were, I had a place in London when which was sort of my business home. And then I shared a cottage in the countryside with my doctor partner, Tony, and I was there so that weekends and in between times, I just taken a few days break from a really busy time working in I was in marketing and working a lot with the media. So up against big deadlines in the days before computers and mobile phones would you believe, so it’s probably quite a lot more stressful in some ways, and a lot more fun and others. I taken some time out and I’d been in Spain, with my mother and my stepfather just to have a bit of a breathing space. And during that time, my mother and I, we had an extraordinary few days together. We were very, very close and very sweet. Our relationship we had a lot of fun and we were doing some reminiscing, when the time came for me to get on the plane to go back to the UK. My mother begged me not to go and she insisted on coming to Malaga airport with me. And at the airport again she she said I something’s wrong and I don’t know what it is. But please, please don’t get on that plane.
Rick Archer: This is totally irrelevant. Interjection but your mother had been Miss Great Britain, hadn’t she?
Julie Chimes: Yes, she Bemis Great Britain, she she was of great beauty in her day and had married a pretty infamous comedian. Genius in this time, so she’d been quite a lady. And she’d always been very, very tuned in to something very psychic, very aware, and lived a highly interesting life. And on this particular day, it wasn’t like her to get emotional. And I mean, neutrally, she would be glad to see the back of me, frankly. So, for her to be begging me not to go and to be tearful was unusual. And at the airport, she she had a crucifix, that she used to wear a gold crucifix, and she took it off. And she said, Please wear it. And I said, look, it’s not really my thing to wear something like that. And she said, No, no, I beg you put it on. And to make her feel better. I did. And I can remember standing there. And I was joking with her saying, you know, for goodness sake, if you think the plane is going to crash, this is the moment to tell me and I won’t get on it. And you said no, no, no, it’s not that it’s something else. But she says, Look, I don’t know what it is, but just take great care.
Rick Archer: I remember hearing a story of Elizabeth Taylor actually being on an aeroplane ready to take off someplace and having this very strong premonition and getting off the plane and the plane did indeed crash after that.
Julie Chimes: I am quite I’m quite sure we can tune into these things. And, you know, I’ve I’ve subsequently heard amazing stories of this. It takes, it takes great courage though, because even though, you know, someone you really love is telling you, you know, to actually step out of an airline queue and say, I’m not going on that plane, I think you have to be very brave. And I wasn’t brave enough not to go back. I wanted to stay. I was having a marvelous time in Spain. And to go back to wintertime, England, you know, in the gloom and the rain and a job that wasn’t fulfilling and a relationship that maybe wasn’t it. You know, too many questions. I needed more time. But I didn’t allow myself that. So first hurdle failed. I got on plane got back. The following day. I had a lot to do when I got back in England and I’ve got appointments and business things to sort out. And I was actually in the cottage with my boyfriend and we were awoken very early in the morning, I think about half five or something in the morning. And he wasn’t on duty. You know, he was a local doctor with a, a surgery of all local people. And in those days, they used to cover nights and weekends. This on a rota basis, and if there was any sort of emergency or anyone needing a doctor in that time they could find directly to your house. So the phone ringing was always in my mind if the phone rang early, it meant there was some sort of emergency. And sure enough, it was the police calling to say that they taken her lady offer London bound train. And the only number she would give was this number, which was his number. Eventually, she had given the number of his surgery, the answerphone had gone on to the duty doctor, the duty doctor who wasn’t my partner said, Well, you know what, this lady if she knows the senior partner, maybe it’s better you phoned him because he may have more information. And so through a rather bizarre series of phone calls, we get woken up to say that a lady had been taken off a train for behaving in a rather odd manner, and not doing anything to break the law, but doing in a sort of socially anti social behavior.
Rick Archer: He was running through the chain train naked or some such thing or am I thinking of something else?
Julie Chimes: No, you’re on the right track. I mean, I know some people might think that was very social.
Rick Archer: I think that’d be against the law in Great Britain, maybe you’re more liberal than we are.
Julie Chimes: But she Ricci actually she went and locked herself in the lavatory on the on the train on the train. And then she threw her clothes out of the window. So by the time the train stopped the next station, she kind of been reported in the station police went and got her off and I think that they managed to go down the track and get some of her clothes back. And you know, I’ve been haven’t I been told any of this on the day let me tell you my destiny may have been very different but nobody thought to tell me these little details. So this woman taken off the train phone call to my partner Tony and he said well look, I am not on duty. I don’t really know this woman. So you can you bring her to my surgery and bring her down later this morning if you if it’s okay, keep her in, in your custody. And then I can see what we can do with her and I can maybe contact her if you if somebody is behaving in a way that indicates that they may have you know psychiatric problems. It’s there’s a quite a lot of procedures that have to be followed in the UK and I’m sure in your country to actually do something with that person. So He needed to follow procedures. And he needed time because he’d already got a, you know, his appointments were completely full that morning. And so when he did eventually go off to work, I said to him, Look, you take great care, I think this woman, I just got a funny feeling about her take great care. And he sort of laughed and disappeared off. And at this point, I’ll give a little bit more background that he met this woman on a course of a self awareness course, that he had gone on, because a lot of his patients had been asking him about it and saying that they’d heard some very interesting and good things about it. And did he know anything about it in terms of healing? And what sort of what did you do on it? And he had no idea. So he phoned up the organizers them and asked them if he could go and watch. Or they said, Hello, I don’t think it’s that sort. Of course, you come along, and you participate. And so he said, Well, okay, I’ll do that. Because I’m curious about this, I want to learn more, and patients are asking me, and then I will be able to give them my direct experience. And he got along on to that course, which I think had about 70 people on it. And this woman had been one of the participants that she was on it, nothing to do with him. But she was there. And so that was the context in which he had met her in at that time in our lives. So
Rick Archer: she had sort of fixated on him, and I guess gotten a crush on him or something.
Julie Chimes: She definitely got a crush on him, because she used to keep phoning the house and, and then hanging up if I answered the phone, and, you know, there was definite, again, looking back, there were signs that her behavior was going becoming a little bit strange towards him. And that’s why I had said, Take care when he’d gone off. But there was nothing to indicate that she was a dangerous person. She was just a lonely woman. She was very educated, well spoken, she’d been a model in her day. And you know, she’d be a good looking lady
Rick Archer: behaving like a normal American politician.
Julie Chimes: I’ve never met any but I’ve heard. And yes, she, my partner saw her. He was actually bought by the police at nine o’clock in the morning, which is significant. They didn’t bring her later, they bought her as he started work. And so he didn’t have time to see her other than just for a few moments. And he saw her and she seemed, you know, a little bit, she’d come down, he hadn’t been told that she’d been running up and down a train naked. And she was very pleased to see him. And she said, and you have to you have to remember to that there is a practice manager, you know, the lady who was the manager, there were nurses, or the doctors, their patients, nobody sort of came out carrying a crucifix going gets back, you know, just misbehaving. By that she was pretty ordinary person. She said, Look, I am really confused about many things. And so Tony said, Well, look, you know, I want to give you more time, I need to talk to you. But you’re going to have to wait, the manager will make you some coffee and etc. You can you we can put you in one of the rooms. And Sure. Well, you know, what I’d really like to do is Could I could I go and be with with Julie, because she was very understanding. I had met her once at a little sort of gathering of these people on the course where they met for a supper and I’d been invited along. And she remembered that she said, I really liked you too. Could I be with her? And would that be alright, I’d rather be in a home than waiting here. Now that might seem absolutely horrifying by today’s standards to think that a doctor would send a patient to his home. But in those days, it was actually quite normal. Our front room was often used as a waiting room for private patients. I was used to that happening. So I received a phone call from Tony and he said look could could this lady could she be with you? And wait with you. She’s a little bit disturbed and confused about her life and she just needs company and I won’t belong. So this is my second hurdle. My second test, you know that God exists as much in the word knows the word yes, but I didn’t know that. Then. I cancelled my appointments. And I said, sure. She can come. So the practice manager drove her just down the road to our house. I opened the door to welcome her and brought her in sattwa down, sat with her and asked her if she had a nice look. The kitchen dining room lovely, open plan room. And I said, No, you know, can I get you a drink? You look like you’re freezing cold, because she was shivering. And she said, Yeah, I’d like iced water. Okay, okay. Okay. And I was just making myself a coffee. So I said, you know, I put the kettle on here, can I make you a hot drink and I put the fire on. And then she she looked quite tearful, and I just went up to him, put my arm around her and said, Well, you know, come on, what do you really need? And she said, she said, I haven’t slept for for two nights. I said, Well, look, I tell you what, we have a spare room here. Why don’t you go there, I’ll put the electric blanket on, you can be warm, you can rest and then when Tony comes back, he can take care of you and talk to you. And, you know, don’t worry, you’ve got all the time in the world. And she said, that’s absolutely what she wanted. And she was so grateful. So I went up the stairs to turn the electric blanket on check the room was okay. Went up another flight of stairs into the I had my office, I phoned the Tony to see how long he would be. And I couldn’t get through the lines were engaged to. So I came back down the stairs. And the last thing I’d actually said to her was, look, if you change your mind about a hot drink, help yourself. And I heard her kind of rattle in the noise in the kitchen and I thought she’s making a coffee. I heard the cutlery drawer and I figured she was you know, getting a spoon. And I felt pleased. Yeah. And I I was a lot younger than so I went charging running down the stairs to go into our kitchen. And I always used to jump down the last few stairs, it sort of turned into the kitchen. And as I ran down, I heard this most extraordinary scream, but a really guttural scream. And in a split second, you know you had no time to work out. Why? Why was that why the scream happened. I just remember the most excruciating pain as if someone had taken a sledgehammer to my solar plexus. And when I looked when I kind of opened my eyes up to the shock of this pain. I saw that this woman had come up the stairs, she’d actually taken my biggest carving knife and had plunged it straight into my middle. Which is not what I was expecting. No, to say the least. So they just began my Tuesday morning.
Rick Archer: Well, you might as well continue the story. We’re, I’m sure you’ve got everybody engaged at this point. This is interesting. Now you You seem to be reacting quite emotionally to this right now. Are you feeling a strong emotion right now?
Julie Chimes: Well, when I ever I say this, there’s still kind of body memory in the sense of the impact,
Rick Archer: like 20 years ago or something
Julie Chimes: just 20 years ago, and I am not in any way. I’m not reacting in a sense of oh my god, isn’t that terrible? How could that have happened to me, it’s more just this this shadow of memory and in the body. And a sense that that any human being could do that to another is quite shocking. You know, so, and talking to you somehow you’re you’re very different to other interviewers, Rick, because this is a depth interview that I don’t I don’t normally encounter. So I I get a lot of you, I can feel that. So back to the staircase. Yeah. Moving on. Yeah. So there was an immense shock. And not only that, this woman was calling out that she had to save the world, in the name of Jesus Christ, and that she had to kill me to save the world. So this was like an added dimension to the experience that not only was somebody trying to kill me, but they had deemed me so asleep evil, that, you know, if I wasn’t going to die, then the world would would end. So all of that was sort of racing through my my brain and my being. But what also happened in that moment was some part of me exploded beyond this body awareness into a completely different place. I had an overview. I suddenly was watching the scene from from on high looking at myself looking at the world. When looking at the knife, looking at the whole scenario, from a place beyond, and I thought, wow, let’s sit on dead.
Rick Archer: And it wasn’t just like you were hovering near the ceiling, from that perspective, seeing it, it was a different dimension of beyond, you’re referring to right?
Julie Chimes: A completely different dimension as if I were in it almost in a theater in a in a, you know, watching a movie, watching it from from a distance seeing a movie screen from quite far away, and being fully aware of what was happening on the screen, and engaged with that. But in a place where there was no pain, no sound effects, because there was a lot of sound on the stairs of, you know, knife and flesh and screams. But beyond all of that, and in a place of incredible love, and great humor, just the sense of laughter. Like, oh, you know, is this the way you’ve decided to end this lifetime? You? This is so corny, you know, this is just what away you have been,
Rick Archer: Like a B movie or something.
Julie Chimes: Like, it was like, you know, and I don’t know when in the States, but in the UK, your back in the sort of 60s, we used to have these really dreadful horror movies, they were so bad. You can see you could see the kind of the ropes pulling the bats and it felt like that it was just so ham. And anyway, watching it from this other dimension was was very, very funny, and also very poignant, too, because, you know, you hear one hears about life flashing before, on and these the near death experience, which is now common parlance, but in back then it was not not a phrase I’d ever heard. I hadn’t heard of tunnels and lights and, and it’s not what happened to me. What happened to me was different I, I was in another dimension I was watching. And it was as if I had somebody with me who I intuitively knew really, deeply loved me and wanted me to survive and wanted me to go through this whole process of being stabbed, and live through it. Because they told me that I I was not meant to die. And that I had to go back into the body. And I was arguing with them. There is no way I am going back into that because I could see what was happening to it
Rick Archer: wasn’t just the one stab meanwhile, she was stabbing you repeatedly. Right?
Julie Chimes: Yeah, it was just a friend, let’s use the word friend said frenzied knife attack. And I knew I got if I was going to survive, I had to get off the staircase. And I didn’t see how that would be possible from this, this bigger perspective. But but at the same time, there was this incredible love. And then I was back on the stairs, looking through my eyes at this woman, you know, like I was in and out of this state. It was very hard to write about it, Rick, because so many things happened all at once. And I went beyond time beyond space beyond logic. And then to try and condense this into the language of making sense out of it so that I could explain what happened. This is really difficult. And it’s still difficult as you can hear. But I looked at this woman through through my physical eyes. And I just found the words came out of my mouth that I said, I I love you. You You can’t kill me, because I love you.
Rick Archer: And you said that she would have actually heard you say that you weren’t just this wasn’t just a mental thing was actual you physically spoke those words.
Julie Chimes: I physically spoke those words. And I don’t know whether she heard or not. But what I know is that within me the feeling was like an explosion inside me of of wonder that we were somehow in a in locked in this dance of death but it was actually a very beautiful dance and that I could not in any way hate her for what she was doing to me. And I felt this immense compassion. I saw her life I saw I saw a great sadness, loneliness bleakness in her I saw her madness, her insanity. I saw her life sort of through my eyes, I could see it and through my being I could feel it. And then with that understanding, I could only have compassion for her. I knew that I will hope didn’t want to die on that staircase. And then I went kind of back into the bigger perspective and I kind of went out again, and I found myself standing on a on a hillside looking at a monk in these wonderful shimmering robes. And he was giving a lesson like martial arts type of lesson to to young boys, where, you know, the guild kung fu movies, grasshopper. And, and, but he was teaching them how to deflect an attack if someone was running at you with a knife, how to or a weapon, how to deflect the energy and use the energy of the person attacking you against them. And he gave this demonstration. And then he looked at me whatever I was, because I obviously wasn’t in my body, but he could clearly see something. And he said, very simple, it’s very simple. And then I was back in the body, again, looking at this woman, lunging at me with a knife and I, I just put my hand up and I just literally very gently knocked her to one side, knocked her arm and she of course fell because she was coming out and with all her might, up the stairs. And she fell forward and the knife embedded itself in the staircase. And I was able to then just kind of slide around her on our I can’t, we couldn’t stand up, I got this massive injury in my middle, but I I kind of slid down into the, into the kitchen. And then the next, what actually was about 15 minutes, I’m told was this in and out of, of body state, where I was being given instructions, and his arm was shouting in my ear like it you know, if you can hear you through my headphones, someone was shouting, don’t forget to breathe, breathing helps, you know, there’s some why shot. Oh, right. And then I step by step, I was guided through my home. And then I had to tell another piece of the story here because it’s so significant that a few weeks beforehand. Before this happened, I had been in London on a business meeting. And I was in central London, and it was absolutely pouring with rain. And I’d gone to this meeting. And the person that I had an appointment with was delayed by about an hour. And his secretary told me what I would like to wait because it was an important meeting. And I didn’t have time to go back to my office and then come out again. So I said, Well, yeah, but I’ll go find a cafe or something. And then I’ll come back in an hour. And it was in an area of London in the West End, where there actually weren’t any cafes, and it wasn’t political Belgrave square. But I remembered that when I was a child, my mother had taken me to Belgrade square because it was the headquarters of the British spiritualist Association. And I remember she’d gone a couple of times. And I was to remember that this building is a very grand old London building. It had a library. And I don’t know why I remembered on that day, because I’ve been to Belgrave square, many, many times subsequently in my life. But I thought I wonder if that library is still there. I’ll go and see. And I can shelter from the rain and read for an hour. So I found the building. It was still the headquarters of the British spiritualist Association and I, I went in and there was a reception area and with a woman looked up and she said, Ah, you must be the three o’clock appointment. And I said, No, no, I don’t have an appointment. I just wondered if the library is here. Could I have a look in the library? And she said yes, yes, the library is still here. And she said, Is it your first time dear? I thought I was going into a brothel you didn’t know. I really don’t have an appointment time I but I didn’t want to say I just want to stay out of the rain and keep drying and read for an hour. I’m killing time. And this woman she was so persistent. She got in her beam that I was her three o’clock appointment with some medium. And I actually got so embarrassed by her insistence that I just said look, I’ll take the appointment, okay. So completely, you know, not not interested not wanting to know anything. No, no focus or question in my mind. They went into up some stairs down the corridor and entered into a room and there’s this very nice gentleman sitting there with amazing blue eyes really intense blue eyes, who looked at me and asked me to sit down. And then he went straight into talking about my grandfather and describing people in such an accurate way that he got my attention. Yeah, he really had my attention. And then he he went very quiet and he’s said, there’s only one thing that we want to say to you change your front door. He said, I beg you change your front door. And then he started to hammer his fist on, on the little table. And as if someone was telling him, you know, shouting at him, and then he was shouting at me, you must change your diet, you must, must, must change your front door. And I was thinking, I just spent however many pounds to be getting DIY instructions from spirit, you know, how profound is that chain would
Rick Archer: It would have been more helpful if he said, Don’t let any strange women in your house but anyway?
Julie Chimes: Well, exactly. But this is this is so significant, because I had a front door sitting in the garage, they’d been sitting there for six months to the cottage, neither neither of us had actually bothered to get it done. We’ve been too busy. And we had such a tiny entranceway into this cottage, a little kind of porch area before you got into the main house, that the door opened inwards and trapped you if you had to kind of stand behind the door to let someone get in. And there was no room for two people in a hallway was almost, you know, and if so, back to the day of the attack. When I actually got that hallway. I had changed the door so that it opened outwards, I’d follow the instruction from spirit. And that was a significant factor in saving my life.
Rick Archer: Yeah, you never would have been able to open it inwards.
Julie Chimes: No way. Because I was actually on my hands and knees and I was slumped in that hallway. I was await against the door so I could never have opened it inwards and move myself out of the way with somebody attacking me it would have been impossible would have been impossible.
Rick Archer: And she was still attacking you all the way to the door. I mean, he managed to get the knife out of the stairs and keep coming.
Julie Chimes: Oh yeah, she just followed me all the way
Rick Archer: she yanked it out of the stairs or whatever it just kept falling and stabbing as you crawled toward the door.
Julie Chimes: Yeah, just relentless. I actually hadn’t managed to get up to my feet at one point and, and because that’s what I was told to do, get on your feet. And I had my hands above my head holding the knife in her she was quite a lot taller than me holding the knife above my head with all her and I used her force like to help me walk backwards.
Rick Archer: I see she’s pushing you.
Julie Chimes: She’s so she was actually pushing me to it’s really quite helpful. Got rid of the porch. And but there I collapsed again, I haven’t laughing because it’s so bizarre, in one way, and I’m here you know, there’s a happy ending. So I can laugh now. In the hallway, the next thing that happened was when I was actually slumped, she grabbed hold of my mic on my sweater, to bring me nearer to her with one hand so that she could put the knife in me with the other. And as she grabbed me this crucifix that my mother had given me kept, got flew out of just flew out of my sweater. And because all this was being done in in the name of Jesus, she stopped dead when she saw the crucifix, like fixated her. And again, that was another significant thing, because I managed to by this point, I have to say that, you know, the knife had actually gone through my right hand as I put it up to protect myself, but with my left hand like kind of reach up behind me. And I actually reached up and managed to lift myself up and open the latch on the door so that it opened outwards. And I fell out. And, and I only time I had an opportunity in that moment that I could have turned the knife on her that you know, there was just that moment in self defense, where she was still fixated. And there was no way I could harm her.
Rick Archer: You could have taken the knife away from her and stabbed her with it. You’re saying?
Julie Chimes: Yeah, I could have cut I don’t know that I could have got it out of her hand. But I could have turned it round on. Yeah. And in self defense, you know, just to anything to stop her. And yet, and yet I couldn’t I could I just somehow even in my desperate situation knew that I couldn’t harm her. But what I could do is as she lunged with the knife out out of the out of the door, I used my body to just slam the door on her wrist, you know, just to try and shut the door. And then I I was calling for help. I had a quite a long driveway down to the road. And the cars and people were, you know, going about their business at the end of this drive and, and I was calling out to all and sundry that for help. And I thought at this point, it would be like the holodeck Hollywood movie, you know that? That somebody would come and rescue me but I thought I actually saw that because people were running away. And then in all honesty, had I been one of those people, I would have run away, I’m pretty sure. Because by this time, the woman with a knife was back in, she got it in my back, she stabbed me in my back because I was crawling down the drive. And it kind of got stuck in my back. So, which, in a way was another good thing because it meant she couldn’t do any more damage. And she was trying to pull it out. And I was just trying to crawl down this drive, which I did. And all the time
Rick Archer: It could have gotten stuck in some ribs or something.
Julie Chimes: It got stuck into my muscles, apparently, my muscles constructed around it in my my shoulder blade. And, and it had gone down into my spine. So, and I I was still having a conversation with this being he was telling me that I was going to live that it was going to be alright. That I had to keep going. And I did I just I’ve always been obedient in politics. Carried on down the drive.
Rick Archer: So you’re crying on your hands and knees down the driveway? Yes, yeah. Yes.
Julie Chimes: And then I figured that, okay, if if no one was going to run up and help me if I could get in the drive and actually get in the road, the cars would have to stop because then my body would be in the road. It was a good plan. But the cars just drove around me. They drove…
Rick Archer: Holy mackerel
Julie Chimes: I think it wasn’t such a hideous site. And what do you do? How do you help? I’m sure people were going to get telephones though. There were no mobile phones, then you know? And then this mad creature decided that she was going to decapitate me. And and then I lost consciousness for a while. For just a little while I everything did just go black and the vast space, the lights, the love. Everything had gone. And that was the most desolate moment. I didn’t know whether I was alive, whether I was dead, whether the voice,
Rick Archer: So you lost body consciousness, but you were still conscious in some way?
Julie Chimes: Well, I had to guess what I was saying, Well, who is aware that there’s nothing?
Rick Archer: Yeah
Julie Chimes: Because if there’s nothing, no one would nothing would be aware. So this extraordinary
Rick Archer: mental process was still going on.
Julie Chimes: Yeah, that’s the processes we’re still wearing. And then then I opened my eyes. And once again, I was back in body conscious body, in the body and very aware of, and I could hear all these people arguing. So what had happened was a young man who had been, he’s a builder, and he was on his way to have an early lunch. And he got to a bridge, the railway bridge, which was near to my home. It was very high sided stop people throwing themselves off it. And he got onto the bridge, and he thought he heard a scream. And he turned around, and it was silent and he had nothing. Then he had another screen. And in that moment, he thought, I’ve left my jacket with my money in back at the building site. So he needed to go back. He turned around, walked off the bridge. And as he came off the bridge he saw there I was lying in the road with this woman trying to cut my head off and hit with no fear at all. And I suppose this was the Hollywood movie, he just walked up to her. And this is when I regained my awareness. I heard him I didn’t see him, but I heard him saying to me, you’re going to be alright, love, you’re going to be alright. Very softly spoken. And then he turned to this woman. He said, Just put that knife down. Just put it down and give it Give it to me. And everything stopped. And then I heard people and voices and and I heard people arguing, saying, Has anyone called an ambulance and someone else said we’re there’s no point they’re on strike. And over here, this is helpful. Yeah. And then I I remember, you know, just thinking about, like studying biology and how much blood can a human being lose before they die and getting myself into the emergency position? Because no one else was going to do that for me. And, and then I heard like these very heavy sound of stiletto heels running across the road. And they’re very well spoken voice sort of this face came into focus and it was a woman from who lived over the road, whose husband was a doctor and I heard her say, is there anything I can do, dear? So I phoned home. And I was I find it really difficult to speak but I said, I asked her if she could phone, Tony, get Tony. ABC was adopted me because he was my partner and I Oh, well, he’ll know what to do with this by the shower of people. I really got the worst accident on Lucas, it was possible to get somebody said, Well, you think we ought to cover her? And then I heard a man saying I’m not putting my jacket on her get ruined with blood. Budget, and then I was so cold. I was just so cold and frightened, really. And the pain was starting to become unbearable.
Rick Archer: Now, the woman been restrained and her name was Helen, wasn’t it?
Julie Chimes: Yes. Well,
Rick Archer: She had been taken away at that point?
Julie Chimes: No, the Police hadn’t arrived. I mean, she wasn’t still stabbing you at this point. No, no, she she actually. I didn’t know at the time but subsequently found out she had been. She had gone back into the house. What she’d actually done is gone and got another knife. She came out. This point when the woman had gone off to phone Tony and the accent onlookers were arguing. She got another knife from the kitchen, came back out had another and tried to have another girl me but she was pulled off by this young man for a second time. Then the police came in. I then heard of this, the high heeled shoes coming back across the road. This way, this woman bent right down low and in my ear said the phone was engaged. It was busy. I couldn’t get through. But fortunately, somebody else had got on to Tony and I heard I have to recognize the sound of the engine and the spill of the brakes. Wonderful sequence of events and amazing sequence of events. Got me to a hospital, that the police drive up, the police are not allowed to take accident victims in their car. But this young man had just qualified on an advanced driving test. Driver and he said carry you know ambulance, they were on strike. We’re putting him in the back of the police car. And I’ll take the consequences. And he drove apparently at very, very high speeds. He also had just come from the main and obvious hospital and to take me from it just been there. And he knew that there was a massive traffic accident there was queues to let you know the roads were blocked. You couldn’t get there. So he went back to the back lanes to another hospital which was near to his hometown, which was only five minutes further in distance. And but you know, the roads were clear. And he got me there. And at this point, my my partner Tony had also, you know, he had said, I’ll take her in my car if no one else will do it. I don’t care, but we’ve just got to get her to the hospital. And he heard very clearly that there were 15 minutes. He just knew that’s how long he’d got to save me and he could hear it counting down in his head. And we arrived at the Yeah, we arrived at the hospital I came back just I remember the trip in the in the police car. But again, I felt like I was at the end of a very long tunnel. You know just hearing voices Yeah, I can hear Tony’s shouting at me to stay quiet, stay there stay with him. Stay conscious and the police driver was shouting at me as well. You know, shouting at me to come on we’re nearly there. You can do this you’ve got this far, you know, we’re really encouraging me to hang on to life. And the hospital was about to be filmed on one of these reality TV shows. And so all the doctors were there and the surgeons all in their best kind of wipes and and the nurses were there and they were ready to be filmed and so they were all on duty which is a miracle believe me and in the UK for that because the injuries I had I needed different different experts for different bits of me. And so we got to the to the hospital as the last minute we did it we got there
Rick Archer: and they patched you up. gave you some blood.
Julie Chimes: Frankenstein’s ride Rick here they did patch me up. Yeah.
Rick Archer: And of course in reading your book, I read the whole thing about your recovery and all and in all the various dramas and humorous incidents you went through during all that but So that’s the basic story of the incident. Now let’s shift gears if we may and kind of discuss this sort of other dimension that that came into it, you know, this voice that was guiding you and, and, you know, as much as you can possibly say about that.
Julie Chimes: I think that the most fascinating thing for me was that it it didn’t stop. It wasn’t as if it came up during the during the extreme need, which I know happens, and has happened to many 1000s of people. But it stayed with me. So whilst I was in the hospital, recovering, I was having these amazing dialogues with this being beyond form, and discourse. And I was drifting in and out of dreams, very lucid, vivid dreaming, which I always had very vivid dreams. But these were very specific dreams, I was being taken to, like a classroom situation. And as if I were in some sort of University of life, where I was listening to lectures about the meaning of life, the nature of life, the nature of forgiveness, compassion, why things happen the way they do, the purpose of human life, just listening, listening, listening, and then then lying in my hospital bed, and then back at home when I was recovering, going in and out of dialogues with. With this being, I called him very task, because just seemed to encompass what it was. Let me ask ya just truth. It’s just a high, higher truth. And I kept hearing this voice saying, it’s time to follow your highest truth, it’s time to follow your highest truth. And I didn’t know what that meant, you know, I am with it. But this what does this mean highest truth. So everything in me had woken up to the fact that there was another dimension to this thing called life. And I promised lying in the hospital, I promised myself that if I made it through, if I really did live, and I survived all of these injuries and all the complications, that I would dedicate my life to finding out what highest truth meant.
Rick Archer: And so how’s that gone?
Julie Chimes: Oh, has it been
Rick Archer: 20 years,
Julie Chimes: 20 years
Rick Archer: to work on that?
Julie Chimes: 20 years still working on it? Oh, my goodness, me. Yes. It’s just been extraordinary. I knew I had to end the life I was living then. And I had to do it graciously. And with integrity. But I just somehow it seemed utterly unimportant. That request of the money making ators you know, were ruthless pursuit of more, seemed obscene. To me, the world was so livid Rick after me, when I came out of hospital, everything was so bright, to so bright, and in some ways, quite hideous. The I just saw, I saw an ugliness. And then behind the ugliness, I saw this light. And that was the only thing I wanted to know about the light behind the light, I could sort of see through things for a while, didn’t stay. But but for a while, I had this kind of extraordinary vision. And I could see through people just sort of look in their eyes. And somehow
Rick Archer: you don’t mean in a literal sense. So that if they were standing against a tree, you’d see through them and you’d see the tree behind them. But you mean more, you’d see the subtler aspect of them or something.
Julie Chimes: I mean, both both. I was seeing a subtle aspect to people, but I could also I could also look in a room and then the room would disappear. It would just it would be sort of fade out and other things would start to emerge. Other Other scenery would emerge. Like what? Like I’d be in suddenly I will be in a room and then in the next moment, I’d be in countryside on a hillside on a mountain.
Rick Archer: And what was the significance of that? I mean, some people would say, well, she’s just hallucinating. But you know, what, what do you feel that really signified?
Julie Chimes: Well, I could put it down. And one would put it down to hallucinating in hospital, which we know with painkilling drugs being pumped into meat sure that you could say that, but then why would it have happened and happened subsequently? And that was what I had to ask myself. All right, I have I don’t drink I don’t smoke, and I don’t take anything. So what is this? What is this happening to me and and why? Yes. What is the significance of it? So the first thing is that it it showed me over and over in different circumstances that the fabric that I had considered so solid and so real of this earth is just a veil which you can put your hand through sometimes, and you can walk through into other realities. So taught me to never presume anything about anywhere or anybody. You can have no judgment or presumption because nothing is as it seems.
Rick Archer: When you saw these scenes like of mountain tops and fields and things, did you feel that those were real places that you were somehow tuning into, or were they more like metaphors or symbols of something,
Julie Chimes: I think they were more more had more of a dreamlike quality, much finer, it’s a very translucent feel about them as well. And, and yet, sometimes it would happen to me. And I would, I would go into a scene, completely different. So I’d be sitting in a room and then I would be at a site where an airplane aircraft had crashed, or a ferry had gone down, and there were people in the water. And I would be telling people, they were dead, and helping them. And it was very vivid. And the next day, I would tell my husband, I’m sort of jumping ahead of time here. And I’d be married by left Tony and had a different relationship. So these events, I would, I would tell my husband, Richard, and I’ve had this extraordinary experience, I’ve seen this, and then it would be on the news that either the next day or the day after, it would happen, that event would happen. So
Rick Archer: So you’re actually visualizing it and interacting with it before it happened,
Julie Chimes: before it happened, beyond. So this whole concept of time, you know, time is just a constraint we use, isn’t it really unnecessary necessary, but there is a place that is absolutely beyond time. And so I was experiencing that. But But back after the accident in those early weeks and months, I didn’t know what the heck was going on. Really, i i some point, I thought maybe I was going mad, you know, that I was going insane. Because, you know, the person who would attack me was hearing voices and had been instructed to kill me. And here am I hearing voices, the things that I was hearing, were so loving, and so utterly. They made such sense. And there was no harm in them. There was no it was for my learning nothing else it was for me to learn. And the more I was learning, and the more I do learn about the mysteries of this thing called life the the less I realize I know it, it’s just extraordinary. You know, it gets bigger and my awareness of it just seems so it’s so exciting, because you just never know what’s going to be revealed next. You never know.
Rick Archer: Did you feel that this Veritas entity? was an entity distinct from you in some way? Like some, you know, higher being or some such thing? Or did you feel like it was sort of your own inner essence, speaking to you, or you know, that you’re tapping into?
Julie Chimes: Well, I would say, who are you? Who are you? You said, so Veritas, and then he would say, I know who I am. The important thing here is for you to know who you are. So he would always do it was turn it round on me. And it was a elusive. I never saw a form. I only heard I only heard him and I felt his presence.
Rick Archer: Did you hear sort of like an actual auditory voice as if you had a speaker playing in your ear? Okay, so it was like a subtle intuition. It was more like Hey, Julie, this you know, clear.
Julie Chimes: And interestingly, when I was very, very small, I can remember I can remember my first memory is of people speaking to me. And these voices chatting away to me and feeling very comfortable and not feeling like a child when I was speaking to them at all the feeling that I was their friend and and so I had had the experience of the voices in the air. And it was very, very, very much an external source of sound. It wasn’t sound within me.
Rick Archer: Okay, so So let’s maybe we should go a little bit chronologically. He came out of the hospital and you know, your whole life had shifted, and this whole new dimension had opened up and you were seeing through people and seeing through things and trying to make sense of it all that You know, so, you know, maybe chart the course of the last 20 years how, how have things progressed for you? You know, what have been the significant realizations or milestones or methods that you’ve used to sort of accomplish this making sense?
Julie Chimes: I suppose the burning question I had was Why Why does something like that have to happen to me? And back to your very astute point that if back in that spiritualist association of a stranger, who could say to me, you know, in his mediumistic, state, change your front door, why didn’t he say, Don’t let anyone don’t let any strange strangers in your house in the next few days? How come? So I, my first thought was, when I when I really contemplated that, clearly, it was meant to happen.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And he was he was only given as much information as allow you to to actually save your life, but it wasn’t part of the plan for you to avert that experience.
Julie Chimes: Exactly. Exactly. That. And that made me so curious. And for a while quite angry, because, you know, there is the human side that, you know, as a young woman, and I had been stabbed in my face, my neck, my hands, my body. It wasn’t pretty, you know, and I, they were not. And I felt very sad that that had happened to me. And then there’s other parts of me that will, hey, you know, you are not your body. You’re not you are so much more than that. You know that now. So I decided
Rick Archer: that I didn’t really know that until this happened.
Julie Chimes: No, no, I mean, I think we hoped we as human humanity, hope there’s something more. But how can you know?
Rick Archer: Yeah, it was just a vague speculation. But then with this incident, it was an actual experience.
Julie Chimes: It was an actual experience that said, and so I thought, I got to find out what following your highest truth means. So I wound my business down and got rid of it. I finished my relationship in a very loving way. And Tony is still one of my greatest friends to this day. And it set him off incidentally, on his spiritual quest. Because he too, was asking much bigger questions. And we parted amicably. I met Richard, who was a fellow adventurer, spiritually speaking, and wanted to know that there was more to life than his business life and the world that he was in. And we sold up everything that we had. And we said, well, let’s just follow the wind here. Let’s just go with the, let’s see what let’s see what unfolds and Veritas was saying to me, that I had to have I needed to just trust that everything I needed, would come to me, you know, and when the pupil is ready, the master will come. And I thought, I have to find a teacher, I have to find somebody who can explain to me what is happening here. So I did, I went on a number of courses in the UK, that I thought might give me some idea, you know, sort of these sort of personal growth and development courses, which were good but they were good in that they gave me kind of intellectual understanding interesting books to read and contacts, but they didn’t touch on anything like the depth that I needed the to, to know. And I can see you well, is there such a thing as an enlightened Master? Is there somebody with this light of truth shining out of them actually, alive on this earth, and I got really excited at the thought of that I could find somebody who knew who was in physical form. And Veritas seemed to be encouraging that, that I would, I would find a teacher that the suggestion was that if I, if I just followed the signs, I would be taken to the right places. So thus, began a 20 something year long adventure of saying, Okay, show me, reveal to me, reveal to me what I need to do where I need to be I complete surrender of everything that I had up to that point believed in and under wanting to understand, and and wanting to live a life where I could find that love, again, a love for my self with a capital S and a love for myself with a small s in this little physical body here is a little Frankenstein’s bride body, and a love for humanity. and compassion, and an understanding. So I was my quest. And we decided with Richard my that we didn’t want to stay in the UK anymore. We wanted to, we felt that the business world was getting very greedy, very corrupt. We wanted no part of that, which is quite courageous at the time, because there weren’t many people thinking like that. We wanted to understand more about organic farming, living a very simple life treading lightly upon this earth. So Richard had a, I can’t use chance meeting because I don’t think anything’s by chance. But he bumped into someone from his past who asked him what he was doing. And he said, Well, you know, we’re just about to head off on an adventure. I don’t know where we’re going. And she said, Well, you know, what, my neighbors sort of false in northern Spain, and they’re looking for someone to take care of it for a year. Because they need to go off, would you be interested? And he said, Yes. Can we meet them? We did. We agreed. And we, we began our life, on a new level in, in Spain, on a hillside, in a beautiful stone farmhouse with no telephone, no computer, no neighbors. And I started to practice meditating there. Really, because I hadn’t
Rick Archer: never formally or just kind of figured, did it, figure it out on your own and did something.
Julie Chimes: I figured it out, I figured it out. Because I just knew that the only way I could hear various tasks ever, is if I got very quiet very still. If I could just steal all the thoughts, you know, all the shopping lists, stuff that goes around in one’s head every day. And I found this hillside a marvelous place for that. And so I just sit on this terrace overlooking Mediterranean hillside with the ocean below, and I would get very still in very quiet and
Rick Archer: but you’re in northern Spain, you said, the Mediterranean is in southern Spain, isn’t it? No other way
Julie Chimes: it there’s the whole coast goes up to the border of Catalonia. Okay, Barcelona, up in the north eastern region of Spain, which bought borders on to France and the wonderful French Pyrenees, mystical mountains. So I’ve started to practice on a daily basis. Being quiet, was quite hard for my little mind. say the least. And, and then the only company we had were books. You know, we didn’t you. It’s hard. I think now for younger people to imagine a life without internet. Yeah, without just plugging in and looking up anything you you want and the great library in the ethers. But then we had nothing, just a few books, and a very, very simple home, and life. And as the way these things happen, we had friends come to stay. And this friend, they bought an unexpected guest with them. And this person had some books with him. And he said, I’m going to leave them with you. And we started reading and they were a amazing books. They were just perfect. And they were written by a lady called Mary Margaret Moore. And they will call the Bartholomew teachings. And this was channeled wisdom. So it was very much like very TAS speaking it sounded like, Absolutely, it was very TAs. It was my, my guide was speaking through these books. That’s what it felt like it was so familiar. And the wisdom was absolutely what I had been experiences in these in the dreams and, and I just devoured the books as did as did Richard, we just love them. And then we thought we’ve got to meet this person, we’ve got to be able to be in the presence of this and hear this this wisdom. And so, you know, when you’re on a spiritual quest, you you make big efforts to get places and to meet people. Like setting up technology can sometimes be Yeah, big effort. And, and we we got in touch we wrote to and we we actually got a letter got through, and we found out that Mary Margaret Moore gave. And it’s like conferences that you could go to seminars, and you could hear Bartholomew’s speak. And so she was coming to England. And so we went and we and we we went to one of these seminars and it was fantastic. This was the first time I really connected. I felt this is it. You know, all these other courses and books were quite superficial. Because I think you know it for years now. Anyone can go and do a course for A weekend and the palace set themselves up as some sort of wisdom guru. And we went, everyone’s got it. They’ve got a piece of the picture for sure. But I wanted someone who had an overview, who had the you had many pieces, one was not enough. And I found in the teachers Bartholomew, just so much.
Rick Archer: Was it merely philosophical? Or did it somehow provide you with tools to, you know, experience whatever it was that it was talking about?
Julie Chimes: It was experiential, to be in the presence that there was a very definite awaking, awakening of one spiritual energies, raising of one’s awareness. Whenever was, yes. And then and then befallen you, in kind of in the energy that spoke through her gave just was so pragmatic and so humorous, and gave wonderful guidelines for life, living
Rick Archer: stuff that you could use on when you came back home,
Julie Chimes: for being in the supermarket and being in the queue and, and the traffic jams, as well as being immersed in bliss.
Rick Archer: So when you say that you were looking for a spiritual master, was that the, the fulfillment of that quest right there? Or are there more chapters to this,
Julie Chimes: there are more chapters to this, it was it was the, it was the beginning of something of an understanding of a master and a pupil relationship, and great respect. But the whole of the batholomew teachings were only to me, it was called an experiment in consciousness. And they were only going to be for a limited amount of time, because Bartholomew expressed that he did not want people to be dependent upon him, he simply wanted us to know how to access it within ourselves. And therefore it was not going to be available for that long. And so we followed it through until its conclusion. And we went to New Mexico for a final gathering, which is a very emotional time actually to, to be in the presence of something that you know, is going to go and not be so available. And, of course, I realized that it’s so easy, isn’t it to even when we have these amazing experiences of, of one’s truth of one’s highest truth, and it’s easy to lose that state. It just like I was on the staircase, in and out, in and out. And, you know, the flashes of brilliance come and then they go and we fall, and we and we get set back? And that you know, and what is it? The other thing that intrigued me is what is it? Why can’t you just go up to a human being a saying, hey, well, you know, what, you’ve got the light of God blazing in your heart, you know, get a live, let’s Let’s love each other. But it doesn’t happen, does it? What so? So why can’t we access it? And what is it that’s covering it and covering this light? And? And how significant is that? So I still had many questions that were not answered. And I needed to understand more of the whole philosophical structure of, of why life is the way that it is.
Rick Archer: And so how did you accomplish that?
Julie Chimes: Well, I knew that I was sort of after befallen me, I kind of lost the plot for a while, I think and was as I seem to lose my contact with tasks as well. And got caught up back in the need to have some money and family issues that were happening and a lot of sad things happened. Knocked me knocked me from my state of knowing big time. And so at this point, stay at Tony, my ex partner, came to stay with us in northern Spain a couple of years down the line. And he’d been to India. He’d gone to the doc to offer his services in an ashram, but to offer his medical expertise. A patient had recommended that it would be good for him to do that. He had no idea that it was a spiritual community with with a master he simply had gone there. He laughs Now you see, like with blinkers on he didn’t sort of see that there were monks wandering around and chants going on and, and great meditation sessions and he even he was just doing his doctor thing, and then bumping into this mother, amazing teacher, and having a little chat still over here. It was perfectly normal to do that. Hand it about I think about about four weeks into his experience, it dawned on him that this was just no ordinary place he was in and extraordinary things were happening around him. And he experienced a lot of healing around the guilts that he had felt for what had happened to me. And some of the pain got released. And he came from that ashram to us and stayed with us in spirit in northern Spain. And he brought with him a tape of a Mantra and, and a photograph of this Indian sent. And we put the Mantra on almost immediately. And I had I just had to go and lie down. I fell
Rick Archer: in written Jaya Mantra by any chance.
Julie Chimes: It was, it was on Namaste yuga and who is the saint by the way? It was, it was good. Oh, my God. Alright, siddhi yogo. Right. Okay. So we played this, which considered a living saint in India. And we put this Mantra on and I, I just felt so strange, I had to go in lie down. I remember it was an afternoon and they lay in this room. And the Mantra was still playing. And then it’s it ran out, and it stopped. And I just lay on the bed, and I started to feel my whole body, it kind of vibrating and shaking. And then the the room filled with the most intense light. And I heard Veritas again. And I hadn’t heard that voice, you know, for about a year. And I heard it again. And I just remember saying, there you are, where have you been? And then it just went, No, where have you been? And I knew then, that was obviously there was some great reconnection going on. And the next phase of my journey began
Rick Archer: as varied as a man or a woman or, or kind of a sexual, right. Okay. Just curious. Okay, the next phase of your journey, what was that?
Julie Chimes: Well, I then read the books that were offered the girl yet through yoga, and, and I found that they were not just words on a page that they weren’t just an intellectual process, I found, they took me back to this place beyond my body, I seem to go into very deep depths of meditation and contemplation, and they were a key that opened the door again, loved it, and devoured them, and just kept reading them and playing this Mantra and, and I, I felt sad that we had no picture of this beautiful, you know, Indian Swami, I mean to her, her eyes was so extraordinary. And I wanted to paint her eyes. So I’d have something I could look at, and I wanted to paint her face. So I spent a day sort of creating her, and then no artists. But I captured something. And then I would just keep looking at these eyes and draw me in, in the most beautiful, tender way. And I found that all of the dreams, the experiences, the meditations, everything started again, it’s like, the energy in me had been reignited and was taking me even deeper into myself. So I knew then that it’s very difficult, isn’t it, Rick, really, because you kind of gotta be in this world, but not have it you have you have to live and relate to everybody. And many people can’t talk about this sort of stuff, and they don’t want you and I would never impose it on anybody. So there’s this secret life, a secret inner life, and then an outer life. That
Rick Archer: yeah, in a way, it depends on the company you keep, but and that sort of depends on where you are. I mean, the Vedic literature emphasizes very strongly that the, you know, the company of the Enlightened so to speak is a very powerful technique for evolution for you know, for spiritual Enlightenment in and of itself, just hanging around with the right people. The energy of that kind of, you know, in trains with your own energy and raises you up. And it’s a very dense world, you know, in, in most quarters, it’s a very concrete dense world, which you know, tends to overshadow person, especially if there’s, if it’s a very fledgling sort of realization, I think that the person has had, it’s easily overshadowed. And it takes a long time, in many cases to really stabilize it. So it can’t be shaken by anything.
Julie Chimes: So, right. So right, and I guess you’re just describing the process I was going through, I was being shaken and, and convinced, sometimes even convinced that, you know, as I’ve said that I was really losing the plot and not I was not like other people, and I need to hear people saying they can’t get a grip a, you know, get get real, and get a job and get deal. But we were living a life with as much integrity as we could possibly have. And, and I, I needed to understand that company was very, very important. And I still hadn’t learned the lesson that no, you could say, note, you know, I’d be I’d been born in that time where women were much about pleasing other, you know, you’d be you’re you, you sort of be flexible around everybody else’s needs. And that was very much my personality. And so I was doing it to a very large extent, and even moving abroad hadn’t changed that because that was something in in my, that I obviously have needed to work on. And and so I began to write my story, I began to write of the experiences, and I wrote a stranger in paradise, as, of course, it was, it was cathartic to do so. But it also helped me put it into some sort of context and perspective. And to have my sense of humor about what had happened, because I found that to me about being stuck there with anything other than a great long face and you are You poor thing, this whole Victor, you poor, poor thing, it must have been so terrible. And yeah, on one level it was but on another level, it was amazing. It was just so amazing. And I knew I had to get that down somehow and, and get it into better balance. Because I couldn’t ever talk about it very well. It was it, write it down. And then I could put all the different strands together to build a fuller picture
Rick Archer: exactly about it pretty well. Now, I made maybe you’ve had a lot of practice.
Julie Chimes: I was feeling very clumsy when I speak about it
Rick Archer: oh, you’re doing great, I think everyone will find find this interesting, I thought the book was very nicely written to her easy to read.
Julie Chimes: I tried my best to make it just keep moving and not wallow in it too much in any area. So this thing about keeping good company by writing the book that took me then on a whole new level of experience of being a published author, and be invited to speak. And I did, I did quite a lot of work with victims of violence and got involved with some charities in the UK and spoke on their behalf. As I traveled and spoke at length, and the book got published in other languages, and got distributed in different English speaking parts of the world, and it just led to an extraordinary journey, which hasn’t stopped actually have are being invited speak about different aspects of the story.
Rick Archer: But until talking to me
Julie Chimes: is the first time this is the first time that I’m speaking to you. I kind of I would say Uncensored, I’m not here. I’m not here to speak on behalf. I don’t have to be aware of certain things that have to be raised in this conversation. I am not the book is, you know, what is it? 15 years old? I’m not. It’s it’s done its thing. I have no agenda. And you’re the first person who’s wanted to speak to me about my spiritual journey, which I’m finding interesting. Yeah.
Rick Archer: The thing that I’m mainly interested in, you know, I mean, there’s plenty people get stabbed and shot and, and, you know, all that, but not that many have, you know, a spiritual experience out of it, you know, and at least that I know of, although many do, I suppose there’s some very interesting near death experiences. But, you know, that’s the angle that really kind of, you know, caught my eye. I guess you originally contacted me, didn’t you? You saw the show. And you said, Hey, Rick, you know, or did I kind of do some I forget how this happened?
Julie Chimes: No, I did not. I didn’t know of you. And you contacted me and I think someone wrote to you about me.
Rick Archer: Yeah, that happens. People recommend people that I should speak with, so I got in touch with you, I guess. Okay, well, however it happened. I’m glad it did. And it’s not over so. So okay, so you you started listening to all the guru my, you know, and sort of siddhi yoga tapes and reading the books and all that. And that kind of rekindled your, your awareness and and you you know you were back in touch with Veritas and then you were starting to serve by helping other victims of violence. So, so take it from there. Okay, yeah,
Julie Chimes: so I appreciated that there was a huge needed me to give something back. And to give back something positive, and to, I wanted to talk about violence and all of the associated things and to see what could be done in a practical way to improve the way victims of violence were treated, to improve, understand, to look at things like compassion and forgiveness and light. So I have a bit of a lady on a mission, really, it felt very much. I used to get so frustrated about the negativity that one reads in the media and on the news, etc. And I thought you never hear you just never hear about positive things coming out of this. Because like all the sages say, you know, with any event, you can ask yourself, What have I lost? What have I gained? What have I learned, the always a positive, you could have, but you have to be guided to find it. And so I found myself getting more and more involved in that. And at the same time, in my own journey, realizing that it wasn’t about becoming an author becoming rich, is about numbers. If I could help one person, I could just help one person come to a place of peace, then something good will have come out of what and I when I when I got published, I went through this phase of thinking that is somehow unless the books of best seller and I was very fired up with the with the publisher as well universe, a lot of expectation from a publisher, and you are asked you have in your contract, you have to do a lot of publicity and appearances. And I didn’t enjoy that at all. Because I didn’t want to be flogging a book, I wanted to be helping people come to understanding about what greatness lay within their hearts. So there was a big conflict during that period. And I found then that’s again, when I’d lost my last one of those times where I lost touch with with my truth. And I found the teachings of siddhi yogo, I realized that one has to have discipline on the spiritual path, you need to do your practices, you need to tune in, you need to meditate, you need to make time for that inner space to speak to you. And that is the most important thing. There is nothing else, it is the greatest reason that we’re here. The only reason we’re here is to know what’s within us. And if we don’t make time, I found if I didn’t make time to honor that, then life went back into what I call two dimensional. You know, Yin, Yang, back forward, right? Wrong, black, white, or the polarity, just swinging up down on that pendulum of polarity, which is very boring and incredibly exhausting. So I had to keep climbing up the pendulum pole or getting on to the pivotal point, you know, of stillness and, and having my overview again. And I found that the teachings that were within Siddha Yoga, it is my path. It’s it’s, I didn’t have to look anymore. I found what I was looking for. And to this day, it is my spiritual nourishment. I think is how I would describe it. You know, and it’s a very private thing. Actually, I’ve never publicly said this before, and that, but I feel that my hand is held, you know, I might I have my hand held and very firmly established in that path. And then I can I can put the other hand out into the world and not get pulled in. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I feel that I’m anchored, anchored in something so strong.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was around in the days when Muktananda was in the facility right next door to where I was staying. I was staying in a TM facility. And he was right next door in South Fallsburg, New York staying there. And he’s to walk down the road with his little ski cap on and read all of his books and everything. And some friends of mine got involved and with that, and you know, it’s like, with any organization, and I can hear people saying Oh, yeah, said hey yogo they’ve had Muktananda was doing this and there were these scandals and controversies and, and so on. And you can almost find that with anything, any organization regardless of how, you know, how good it may be on the whole. But, you know, with most of them, I mean, tomorrow I’m going to interview a guy who is the leader of the Hari Krishna. Org musician who is a fascinating guy who’s written a marvelous book. And, you know, they’ve had their kind of scandals and controversies. But it seems to me that if you know, every example I can think of, or shows another example, and every example I can think of, you know, if you sort of like, go to the heart of it and discover the sort of essential value that it has to offer, you can benefit from that thing. I mean, maybe there are some that are so extreme that you wouldn’t want to touch him with a 10 foot pole no matter what, but most of the well known spiritual organizations and traditions, you know, TM, Siddha, yoga, the Krishna people, all these things, have you, when you get to sort of meet some of the people in them, you realize that these are incredible people and really wonderful, and they found a path that works for them. And that has been extremely, you know, very enlightening for them. And there are some real shining examples of, of, you know, what these pas have to offer. And then, you know, as with any organization, they attract all types, and you also have some odd balls, and some, and some, some characters and some, you know, troublemakers, and so on and so forth. But it’s, it’s good to learn not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to and to sort of like, yeah, go ahead.
Julie Chimes: Yeah, I mean, everything you say, one has to enter into any relationship with with a with great care. And test, I think all, all teachers must be tested, if you have to have to choose against your own heart. And I feel that for each one of us, ultimately, it’s down to your own experience, you stand in the presence of a teacher, and it’s what you experience. And I couldn’t, and wouldn’t speak for anybody else. And I’m not advocating any path for anybody really, there are as many ways as there are human beings, I think. And we’re totally free to to totally free. But for me, it was down to my own experience being in that presence. And if you go into the core of all of the teachings, the Maharishi or show, Rama Ramana Maharshi. I just love them all. I think they’ve each had their own interpretation of aspects of, of yoga. And they have different ways of some of them were really fun and way out there. And I guess, you know, they were right, for some people at that time. But when you find what you’re looking for, you know, you just know, it’s because there’s there is no more searching. And so, you know, and I’d be very curious, I’ve fought for very many years, I was searching up, you know, mountain down, Dale, different countries, different teachings, different types of things. And then suddenly, bang, I found what I needed. Yeah. And I’ve never bought. Yeah, and I, but I, you know, I have no desire to shut myself away or live the atomic life. That’s not my destiny at all. And I think there’s so much confusion in people, don’t you that you’ve kind of already shut yourself away from the world, too. I mean, I hear what you say about they’re very dense, dark corners, and it can be a bit like running through treacle at times. Someone wants said, slug fencing with lightning. Little self trying to cope with the spiritual energy and the Shakti that I sense that one can be in this world and really live a shining life. But yeah,
Rick Archer: I think the monastic thing, the ashram life definitely has its value if it’s right for you, at that particular time in your life. I mean, I’ve done years of that myself. And then at other times, or for other people, it’s not right, you know, so there’s just no one universal prescription and all these, you kind of, you know, you find the niche that that works for you.
Julie Chimes: That’s right. And I think also, there is a great tendency to z in this day and age to run around from one teaching to another, from one guru to the next. And this course of that course and another franchise and, and a very beautiful friend of mine who is a monk said, it’s a bit like eating off a smoker sport, you know, you, you try everything and but you do end up if you overdo it. And, yeah, in a few hours, you’re hungry again.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And then there’s the analogy of you know, better to dig one well, that’s 100 feet deep than 10 wells that are only 10 feet deep, you know, you sort of you’re more likely to strike water if you dig a deep one. So being being a dilettante is not always a good thing. But then again, you know, you can’t take an absolute position for some people it may be appropriate to sort of shop around and taste a whole lot of different things. And, you know, maybe, I mean, I’m sort of doing that, in a way these days, although I have my own practice, I really love kind of delving into all these different worlds of the people that I interview and listening to them, you know, reading their books, and just kind of exploring all the various ways of seeing and expressing this.
Julie Chimes: And you would have to be very open about what you do. And in the same way that I found my path, it doesn’t mean that I don’t have great interest and love for other parts, because I do. I mean, I absolutely the first spiritual book I ever read. After being stabbed I, I heard the word. Again, like the shouting in the year one morning, I woke up and I heard, it’s like very tough saying avatar, Avatar. And I thought, What does this mean avatar? I mean, again, I didn’t know what the word meant, then. No, no, no movie is called Avatar. And I spoke to a very lovely friend of mine man called know, who’s a very wise, gorgeous man. And he said, Read Yogananda. And, you know, read Autobiography of a Yogi, which I think is many people’s first book, actually, such a beautiful book. And I read it, and I, I completely fell in love with Yogananda. I just felt so much love. But I never felt that, that that was going to be my path, right. But I read every book written of that, of his teachers. Yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been in the states I’ve visited. And I’ve absolutely love it there. And I have a great soul connection. And yet, it it didn’t call me in the sense of being, somehow the teachings that were igniting me. So, but, but I have immense love for that particular path. And my, you know, and Maharishi too. So I have my life has, and my quest is has taken me into some incredible areas, and extraordinary teachers, I had one. Here in Spain, there’s a young man who is a healer. And he’s not known on the world stage at all, but he’s known locally in under Lucia. And I asked if I could meet him, because I’d heard that hundreds of people go to him and that miracles happen around him. Bit like John of God, you know, he’s, he’s one of these people that and I, when I, when I met him, I could feel when I’m in the presence of somebody who has a lot of God’s light shining through them, I always feel the great heat when I stand near them. And I remember he was standing in a crowd of people talking to them, and he was a actually in robes as a monk, as a priest or, and he and I stood, I felt grief that I put that I put such inner heat, though, and he suddenly turned around, and he said to me, in Spanish, if you stay there much longer, we’re going to start a forest fire. So he clearly was aware of what I was experiencing behind his back and cut a long story very short. Actually, with my husband, we actually went and lived in, in the area, which is an area where people live in caves, still, this was a troglodyte community, inland, and Lucia very, very, very strange, an ancient landscape. And we lived and spent nearly six months listening into the teachings with a view of maybe writing for him writing his story and his teachings. So, you know, I was very drawn to do that and to be spend six months with a very intensely Catholic, young man, even though he was a hilly, very, very Catholic, but so wise and so amazing. Beautiful. being full of fun. Yeah. So the so the adventure continues. Yeah. And I have a, I have an idea. Maybe one day in my dotage, I will write of my spiritual adventures.
Rick Archer: Well, it’s good. It’s good. You’re saying this, the adventure continues? Because sometimes when you say, well, the seeking stopped, sometimes that implies to people that the adventure stops or that the finding stops, you know, or that they just sort of sit on their laurels and, you know, kind of put their navel or something, but you know, I think it can, it can be quite the opposite. I mean, the, the mystery of life hasn’t gone away, and, and the, you know, the depth and clarity to which one can on you know, experience things, still has great potential. And, you know, there’s, there’s all sorts of possibilities. It’s just that I mean, there’s just a sort of yearning, yearning, craving lost feeling that that I associate With the word seeking has gone away, you know, kind of foundation of a foundation of knowing and contentment, one continues to explore.
Julie Chimes: Yeah, my seeking has now got a structure around it. And I, I understand more the process of being a seeker and I the structure has been created by the path that I’ve found my refreshment and my comfort and my guidance. So the adventure can continue in an even greater way. And it is supreme adventure. It really is, you know, and it’s taking, taking what is within, and being able to put it out there into the everyday situations. The thing is that that’s what I find so awesomely fascinating. And I’ve lately I’ve been exploring forgiveness, that that is the thing that really calls me because I feel that, in fact of Yogananda, he said that the physical world is held together by the mortar of forgiveness. So the implication of that is so huge.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Do you feel like you’ve forgiven the woman who stabbed you?
Julie Chimes: I feel that now, there’s nothing to forgive, you know, because it’s part of a design that was exquisite. For me, for her probably for everybody involved. It was a part of a souls design, it did have to happen. And I, you know, the place of great understanding and peace within myself about that, and I really don’t have any, I don’t really think about this woman very much. But if I do think about her, or like, today, we’re talking about it. I don’t get anything other than a sense of I just wish her well, in her life.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Do you feel you still have this connection with Veritas? Is that a big thing for you still? Or was that something in the past?
Julie Chimes: I still have the connection with Veritas. It has perhaps a slightly different form, in that I don’t hear it so much now. But just have this knowing arise within me? It’s not it’s not the external? Yeah, it’s good. It’s gone on to a more subtle level. Yeah. And I still have to be very focused and centered and still within myself to experience him or her. It’s. But you know, what I find is that, and I think this is happening for a lot of people now to that the connection between the thought and the manifestation is so fast. You know, I think something and it’s there, I think of a person. And I just find that that knowing that literally, now is much more subtle. In that understanding arises within me much more quickly. And stays for longer. And I’m far more careful about the company I keep,
Rick Archer: right? And you’re not so much in this syndrome of I got it, I lost it. In other words, you don’t get caught up so much or forget, this is more stable now more.
Julie Chimes: Yes, it is much more stable. And I feel it’s very difficult. It’s difficult. Now, if I’m asked to give a talk, I just can’t, I can’t actually do things to order any more like that. I just have to stand there. And whatever will come out of me will come out of me in the moment. It depends on the room, the people that you know, I just have to trust it. I just don’t more if I do speak, I speak from the heart. And only if I’m invited. I don’t try to order a speaker you know, I don’t run. I don’t I don’t market anything. Very test Inc. Know, that bit from time to time. If I’m invited, like you invited me, I’ll speak but I don’t do any preparation. Right? Maybe I should
Rick Archer: know there are a lot of very articulate teachers who don’t do any preparation like Eckhart Tolle and Adi Shanti. And so on. They just kind of get up there and start talking and it just comes
Julie Chimes: and it’s perfect. I’ve listened to Eckhart I’ve been in his presence too. Fantastic. Absolutely. You know, again, the truth is the truth. And there are all these fine instruments that express truth on Earth. And we’re lucky. Aren’t we lucky? Humanity has great people out there to help us.
Rick Archer: Well, it’s good thing. There’s an abundance of us because there’s 7 billion people on the planet and I don’t think one person could handle it all. I don’t think so. It’s a really good news. Yeah. Some people you know, when they speak of spiritual awakening they speak of sort of A shift to a sense that, you know, there is no personal identity there, there sort of an impersonal, you know, being and talking happens and eating happens and sleeping happens and doing happens, but there’s no person who is making them happen. And they they insist that that really is the nature of realization. Have you had anything of that nature or any tastes or flavors of that?
Julie Chimes: So I think I would call that being in the state of the witness. Where, you know, it’s, it’s the word I’ve been using his overview, it’s getting to that place where, you know, I sometimes say things, even during this interview, and I’m thinking, Well, where did that come from? And I find myself laughing. It just comes from inside and there’s this part of me that watches that with great good humor. And then there’s this other part that sort of sometimes worries that it’s not doing it right or you know the humaneness. So, yeah, the know, the place of no identity. When one just is I suppose that totally clear. Clean. Hollow flutes. Yeah. Through which melody can be played. Yeah, something like that. And I do. So I do. I know that states and I bid and, and more, more and more I can attune to that. And I’m finding less than this about day to day life troubles me getting more equanimity. In my old age.
Rick Archer: You’re not so old. I think you’re younger than I am. I won’t ask you how old though?
Julie Chimes: You can, I don’t mind, it’s only a body?
Rick Archer: How old are you?
Julie Chimes: I’m 56.
Rick Archer: You’re just a kid.
Julie Chimes: Oh, thank you. Just you just made my body’s day.
Rick Archer: Do you have any sort of lingering handicaps from the trauma? I mean, physical, you know, can you use your right hand properly. Now I remember you mentioned it was took a long time to rehabilitate that.
Julie Chimes: It’s not as it was, and I had to give up. I was a great sports woman. And I love playing squash, golf. Tennis, I can’t do any of that. Because the right hand isn’t as dexterous as it used to be, and its grip has gone. And I don’t think I don’t find it fun to play those sports. I was at a pretty high level and it’s not fun to I don’t enjoy it. You know, just like the golf club flies out of the hand after a bit and which is like exceedingly dangerous. So probably killed somebody. I used to play the piano. Not that well, but I could play the piano and, and I can’t do that anymore. So the thing is, though, you know, you have to lose some things. But other other than I figured, okay, well I can learn to do something else. So
Rick Archer: should take up skiing or skydiving or something.
Julie Chimes: Sure bungee jumping will be fine. I think as a human being it one has to keep that enthusiasm for life. And then there’s always something else and maybe we get rigid in in only doing it one way we become real boring old whatsits, don’t we so I think through what happened to me, it taught me also that I have to you can reinvent yourself no harm done, it’s a good thing to do. It’s actually a it’s a great thing to do. And it’s so exciting because you know, tomorrow I can be something different. I can try something new and the creation is infinite there are so the possibilities are endless for for exploring and experiencing love and laughter and friendship.
Rick Archer: I’d like to go ahead
Julie Chimes: and say Rick one of the things about you know, almost losing life really gets what’s important in life it puts it back into perspective you know, and you in the end it’s over and over but I really know it now that all I really care about is when when I lay down my head to go in this lifetime I do hope it’s a peaceful passing I think I’ve done the violence bit that’s that’s the only left so I probably won’t get that anyway when I do go I want to be able to say that I have no regrets no unfinished business and I really loved to possibly could
Rick Archer: repeat that last sentence because there was a there was a glitch in the audio we missed most of that sentence where you said I really want to and then there’s a big long gap and and and said possibly could. So what did you just say
Julie Chimes: that I would like to happen No regrets. I’m funny, no unfinished business with anybody. And I will know that I have loved to the fullest capacity that I possibly could.
Rick Archer: Good. Well, that’s beautiful that that might be a good note to end on. But if you have anything more that you’d like to say that I haven’t elicited from you, this would be the time is there anything kind of like that we haven’t really thought to talk about that you’d like to mention.
Julie Chimes: There’s nothing that comes to my mind. Not really. But what I would what I’d say is that I will, if you have any questions that come to you, or anybody asked question, that son answered, I am always be available to answer that.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I will. When I put your interview up on the website, batgap.com, there’ll be a link to your website and to your email address if you want it on there. And people can get in touch with you. And very often, almost every single one of these interviews, or discussion ensues afterwards, on each person’s page where there’s a little place where you can post a comment, and then people reply to that. And sometimes we go on page after page of people talking about what the interviewer inspired in them. And so that may happen with yours. And if you feel like chiming in, no pun intended, you know, responding to any questions people may have, or, you know, getting involved in the discussion that might ensue, then you’re more than welcome to
Julie Chimes: Thank you, Rick, that would be well, I’ll keep my eye on that. And you’ll have something you can, you can let me know. Yeah, that would be great. Good. It’s been really interesting to share this time with you.
Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s really been a delight. Getting to know you, and we’ll stay in touch. So let me conclude by you know, I want to thank our guests, Julie chimes, who lives in in Spain, was originally from England, obviously. And she has published a book called stranger in paradise. I’ll have a link to that on the website if people would like to purchase that and read it. And if you are, depending on how you’re hearing this, you might not actually be on batgap.com. You might be listening to an audio file somebody sent you, you might be on YouTube. But if you go to batgap.com, which is an acronym for Buddha at the Gas Pump, bat gap, you will see all of the interviews that I have done listed there and you can sign up for an email if you wish to be notified each time a new one is posted. So thanks for listening or watching and we’ll see you next time.