281. Dorothy Rowe Transcript

Dorothy Rowe #281

March 12, 2015

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>>Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer and my guest today is Dorothy Rowe. We’ll introduce Dorothy more in a minute, I just want to say that Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually awake or awakening people. I usually like to say “awakening” because I think the process never ends.

If I sound like PBS for a minute … this program is made possible by the support of generous listeners and viewers. So if you’re enjoying the show and you feel like supporting it, go to www.batgap.com , you’ll see a ‘Donate’ button and you’ll also see hundreds of interviews already archived that you can explore, I’ll explain that more towards the end of the interview, also.

So I’ve known Dorothy for years. It’s not like we hung out much but she’s one of these people that you run into all the time in Fairfield and whom I would classify as “people who make Fairfield, Iowa an interesting place to live.” There are a lot of people in this town who have a lot going on, spiritually, and Dorothy has always been a joy to run into at the grocery store or whatever, she just has such a good heart and it really comes across, and it really brightens your day to  encounter her.

But I learned, maybe a year ago, from a mutual friend of ours that Dorothy had even a lot more going on, spiritually, than I realized, and that she undergone some very interesting awakenings and transformations, and so since knowing that I’ve wanted to get her on the show. So we’ve finally got around to doing it.

So I thought, Dorothy, we might start, just for kicks, with your mall experience, and then we’ll work forwards and backwards from the mall experience and fill in all kinds of details.

>>Dorothy: Sure! Okay, sure. Sounds great. And thanks, thanks for having me on the show Rick. It’s really sweet of you, it’s like an honor to be here, in the presence of so many other bright lights.

>>Rick: Well, it’s an honor to have you.

>>Dorothy: Okay, so it happened after I had been through a long period of illness and two deaths that were very significant in my life, and I was very ill, and I had to quit my job, and I was basically in a state of physical crisis where I didn’t know any one day if I could even get out of bed or get my clothes on – I just didn’t know from one day to the next what was happening. Any broken bones and all kinds of strange things were going on with me.

Anyway, one day after a very long winter, in February, my husband said, “We’ve been cooped up in this house for months and would it be possible …” – I felt good enough to get dressed that day, so we thought we would go to the mall. So we took the kids up there and I said to him, “I don’t want to go in any stores, just being in the mall is enough trouble. Maybe just walking gently will be enough for me.”

So we were walking gently through the mall and the first thing I noticed, the experience took place over the course of about five seconds – the first thing I noticed was a feeling of deep peace came over my being and it was the best I’d felt in like years, really, years. And the next thing I noticed was a whispering sound, like a fine … almost like fine sandpaper at first but then I realized it was the sound of ideas and thoughts. And I looked around and noticed, it wasn’t the sound that people were verbalizing, speaking in the mall, but it was the sound of their thoughts.

And as I looked around to see where the thoughts were coming from, I noticed I could identify which physiology was producing which thought, and when I looked at someone I could get a whole read on them. So I started enjoying this blossoming of a deeper understanding of the people around me, because it was as if each person had their own unique, amazing story, and the stories were unfolding. As I would look at people I would see what they had eaten for lunch and how they were feeling. And I saw a man who was with a woman and I realized that the woman he was with was like a lover … but wasn’t his wife … but he was married to someone – I mean, it was like whole stories on people! It was very interesting, you know?

>>Rick: You’d make a good private detective if you didn’t do this.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, right. I saw a lot of things I had no explanation for, strange and amazing things that I had no words for. But I turned to Tom, my husband, after about five seconds and said, “Do you see that the mall has undergone a huge transformation and it looks completely different?!” And he just said, “No,” that it didn’t look like that to him.

So I began describing my experience and it lasted about maybe ten or 15 minutes; it faded off gently after about 15 minutes but the feeling of peace remained. And it was such a wonderful experience and I thought, “Maybe someday that will come back again,” and it actually did. After a few months, the spring started to evolve and I was still in a lot of physical crisis, but anyway, it started to come back. Did you have a question?

>>Rick: Did you read my thoughts? I always have questions, you can ignore half of them. But your story reminded me of stories like St. Francis, for instance, who underwent a huge health crisis before his awakening. And there have been other stories like that too, where people went through this physical catharsis, almost to the point of death sometimes, and then kind of came out of it transformed.

So when you describe that – and I hadn’t known but that part of the story – it occurred to me that nature was kind of putting you through the ringer in preparation for some new phase of your life.

>>Dorothy: Absolutely, and I felt that. It was that moment that I gave up. You know, for years I had through that awakening came as a byproduct of devotion and purity and qualities like that, but in the end, it was because I was so completely uncomfortable and miserable that I basically said to God, “This isn’t fun, I don’t want to do this anymore, You do it.” And it was at that point, it was the surrender that brought the awakening, really.

>>Rick: Nice. So would you call this an awakening?

>>Dorothy: Definitely! But it wasn’t like a … I mean, it had an element of grace to it because it opened, and some of the opening remained even after all that inner visioning and the hubbub sort of settled back down again. It was actually a very simple experience, even though there were a lot of details. But what happened was that over the course of about the next year or so, there were openings and closings and openings and closings, and each time the openings lasted longer, and each time I felt I had gained more stability in the experience.

And my next big shift occurred when a friend of mine said, “Oh, there’s a healer coming to town and giving a talk at the library, maybe you’d like to go hear him.” So I didn’t know anything … the friend only said, “He works with angels.”

>>Rick: Is this John Douglas?

>>Dorothy: Yes it was, John Douglas. I didn’t know if it was okay to say his name.

>>Rick: Sure, he’s a public dude.

>>Dorothy: So John Douglas, I publicly say “thank you” to you for helping me on the next step in my journey, so grateful. So the thing is that I had been keeping my experiences extremely private because I was concerned that maybe people would feel uncomfortable about what was happening and therefore it was kept quiet, and I was still dealing with a lot of health concerns.

But by the time I went to John Douglas, I believe I was seeing a doctor almost every day – a chiropractor or somebody, there was always something going wrong in the physiology there. And I went to see him and it was extremely validating for me that he saw what I saw. I walked in the room and he had this entourage of Divine beings with him – master healing agents and Bodhisattvas and archangels and various beings…

>>Rick: Okay, hold on a second. So, had you already been accustomed to seeing such beings around all the time anyway?

>>Dorothy: I was seeing a lot of stuff, but I didn’t have names for a lot of what I was seeing.

>>Rick: You just saw “beings” of some kind.

>>Dorothy: I saw beings and I recognized them because I had seen them as a child, also.

>>Rick: In Catholic imagery or something?

>>Dorothy: No …

>>Rick: Oh, you actually saw the beings.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, my parents weren’t very religious when I was a kid, we didn’t do a lot of church stuff. But I saw them a lot in the gardens and in my house. We lived in a very old house that had a lot of interesting energies in it, and my parents were always looking for a self-sustaining farm so I spent a lot of time traveling to different residences and farms and locations around Colorado – I’m a Colorado girl – and each place, I noticed, had its own unique energy frequency, and so as a child I got used to reading energy frequencies.

>>Rick: Let me just pick into that a little bit more and we’ll continue on with John Douglas. So for the sake of those who might not just take it as a matte- of-fact that there are all kinds of beings hanging around, let’s discuss the idea that there are a little bit, you know … who or what those beings are, where do they actually reside, and why do some people see them and others don’t?

>>Dorothy: Wow, what a great question! Okay, so my take on it is that each of us is creating our own universe, and everybody’s universe has some aspects in common with everybody else’s universe – that’s why we’re able to work together as community.

>>Rick: Yeah, thank God, I mean, we all see the same stoplight and stuff like that.

>>Dorothy: Right, right. On a similar level, as awareness goes into the deeper, more abstract levels of its own nature, what happens is the body is perceived as multidimensional, and at that level, it’s possible for individuals to take on forms which are different than the forms taken on our by our gross physical body, which have to conform to the laws of physics of this 3-d level of reality.

>>Rick: Yeah, and when you say ‘individuals,’ you don’t mean human individuals, you mean that souls or entities take on subtler bodies?

>>Dorothy: No, I mean humans … humans.

>>Rick: Oh, you do?

>>Dorothy: We all range from the gross physical, material level of our bodies all the way to the finest level of creation.

>>Rick: Right, so in other words we have various strata of subtler aspects of our embodiment, all the way from the astral to the celestial, and whatever there may be?

>>Dorothy: Yes, yes, this is the experience … Yeah, yeah. And, at the deeper levels of the physiology, this “body” – what we think of as our body – is highly multidimensional and it has the ability to do amazing things that the physical body can’t do. For example, at a very fine level of the body, the celestial level, there are forms that are absolutely minisculely small and massively large, at the same time The human body – this is the experience that I see – is that the human body, when I work with people, has this quality of being smaller than the smallest and bigger than the biggest, at the same time.

And therefore, what we sometimes call archangels or healing angels or masters or something like that, at actually aspects of our own being. So when someone comes to me for healing, it is not Dorothy who heals that person; it is that person’s own Divine Self who heals them, in the form of angels and master healers and so forth. Because even anything we can imagine, we have manifested. So if you can imagine God, if anyone can imagine God, that means you’ve manifested God in your reality, and that means that God is part of your being, that your being goes all the way to infinitely large.

>>Rick: Yeah … let me … there’s a few questions that come to mind. Weil, one is that – to my way of thinking – God is not subservient to the whims of human beings for His existence. I mean, His existence – I say “His” just for convenience sake – His existence is not threatened by the existence of Atheists; He exists in their universe as much as He exists in ours, it’s just that they don’t appreciate His existence, right?

>>Dorothy: Right, right, it’s just because they’re not experiencing that level of their own being. If an Atheist were experiencing the level of themselves that is completely expanded to its infinite value, then they would know that thing, even if they didn’t call it “God;” they would know that to be an expression of their own being.

>>Rick: Mm-hm. And another question, just because these beings – archangels, angels, healing entities or whatever they are – are manifestations or aspects of our own being, does that preclude their also having existence independent of our being, as autonomous entities?

>>Dorothy: Yes.

>>Rick: It does preclude it? In other words, if I happened to have the ability to see these beings and I saw one, would that just necessarily be a manifestation of my own being, or could that be an autonomous being in and of itself, with its own existence, independent of mine?

>>Dorothy: My understanding is that if you experience it then it is within the range of your being, it is in your universe and that you are … the universe is within you, rather than you being in the universe, does that make sense?

>>Rick: Okay … but then that’s true of everyone. I mean, all seven-billion people in the world are within my universe …

>>Dorothy: Yes .. yes … yes … yes.

>>Rick: Okay, and you just pipe in if I’m talking too much.

>>Dorothy: I did have something to say about that and that is, if there’s a being in my universe that I know of, that I’m cognizant of, that I’m working with, that you’re not aware of in your universe, it only exists at a very, very virtual form in your universe, whereas in my universe it’s like this major player. And so it just means that that part of my being – or it could be reverse roles, that part of your being is so alive and it’s so engaged, it’s like integrated in the field of who Rick is, basically.

>>Rick: Right. So could we say that all beings may be in the entire universe are contained within each of our universes, because ultimately our universes are all completely intermeshed; they’re not little islands, it’s  one big ocean. And so from that ocean islands begin to arise, and then the possibilities become more and more and more unlimited.

>>Dorothy: Right, exactly perfect, exactly perfect. So when somebody comes to me for healing, what happens is they walk in the door and they have manifested a universe or a reality that they don’t like, and they would like to manifest a reality that they do like, and in the end, basically, it always comes down to that.

And so a lot of what I do is to support their ability to get very comfortable with the process of how they manifest, and what I consider to be sort of like a sliding across universes. Because there are infinite, simultaneous parallel universes, and they are universes that are just like this one, only this hair right here, is over there. And there are universes, infinite numbers of them, where this hair is over there, but back in 2011 or something! There are so many of them that we are literally living in an infinite number of them all the time, anyway. You’re living in infinite universes right now.

>>Rick: So you and I are having this conversation in a million different ways – sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in Pleiadean, or whatever!

>>Dorothy: Right, right, right, right.

>>Rick: There are just all these variations of everything that happens.

>>Dorothy: Yes, and the thing is that for every person who comes to me, say they come in and they have a complaint, maybe they have an infection, and there are infinite universes where everything that they love about their life is exactly the same, except the infection isn’t there. So it is possible to slide over to a reality that’s so close to the current reality that it doesn’t really feel like a different universe, but it is. Because when you change one thing, you really change the whole universe.

>>Rick: Yeah, I mean there are those science fiction stories where they go back in a time machine, make some little change, and all of a sudden they can’t exist anymore because their parents don’t get born, so you gotta watch out!

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. And I know that if you look at the concept of simultaneous parallel universes, it’s possible to find all kinds of paradoxes, and if you go on logic and reason alone, it shouldn’t be possible. And my son has explained to me beyond any shadow of logical doubt, that it is literally impossible that there could be the existence of infinite simultaneous parallel universes and yet, this is my experience.

>>Rick: I think physicists say that it is possible; I’ve talked to physicists who say that. So your son should study physics!

>>Dorothy: Yeah … I believe he will, he’s heading in that direction! That’s one way of looking at the process of healing, as a movement across the fields of creation. Another way of looking at it feels the same but is a completely different angle, and that is that when individuals come, they have resonations or frequencies within their subtle energy fields which are lower than is appropriate for their full potential. And those energy frequencies can be raised or modified, and as that happens, whatever is causing the lower frequency – whether it’s fear, or memory patterns, or any variety of different imbalances – as it clears out of their physiology, they feel a kind of movement of energy. And that’s a consistent feature of energy work, is that there is a movement of energy – the darker, lower frequency energy moves out, and this lighter, brighter, higher frequency energy comes in the area to replace that energy frequency. And frequencies change, and it’s kind of fun and exciting. But the movement of energy feeling, I realized it is the same as the sliding between realities, sliding across universes.

>>Rick: It’s kind of a different way of explaining the same thing.

>>Dorothy: Exactly, exactly, it’s like two eyes looking at it from different angles.

>>Rick: No you know, the more manifest things become the more calcified they become, the more ridged, limited, and harder to change. So obviously, certain things are very entrenched. And there are miraculous stories in Yogananda and in the Bible and whatnot, of pretty major healings.

>>Dorothy: Like Jesus…

>>Rick: Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead and healing the cripple and the blind and all that stuff, so that’s pretty major. I don’t know if you’ve pulled off anything of magnitude yet?

>>Dorothy: Well, I have had experiences that were really miraculous in healing sessions. At one time, well actually, it goes back to … I mentioned that there were two really significant deaths before I started, and one of them was my father. And I was with him when a lump appeared on his face, and it appeared within about 30 minutes. It was like … he looked normal – and I’d gone to visit him and I could only stay for half an hour – and by the time I left there was this big, like about that big (Dorothy makes hand gesture) lump on his face, coming off his face. And it eventually turned out to be the thing that killed him; it was cancer.

Well, my mother came to me a few years later, back during the period that I was being very secretive about what I was doing, and she had a lump almost in the same spot, just a little bit lower on her face. And I was very concerned and she was coming over weekly for healings, just because that was like playtime almost. And we worked with it for, oh I don’t know, 45 minutes or something, and then I remember just reaching my hand up, I didn’t quite touch it, I just put my hand near it and it just dissolved under my fingers.

>>Rick: Within minutes.

>>Dorothy: Ooh, within even seconds I would say, just seconds. The preliminary work had been clearing all those energy frequencies and so forth, but then this moment came and I didn’t even think, “Oh, I should put my hand there,” it was more like I just looked at her and my hand wanted to go, so it just went, and it just dissolved.

And another thing that happened that was so beautiful. A man came to me not long ago, and he had been to several doctors and been through several rounds of antibiotics for an infection in a nerve that had taken the muscle-use out of half of his face, so he could only use half of his face. He was very distraught and we worked for a couple of hours, and a lot of the work we did was between him and his father…

>>Rick: Who had died?

>>Dorothy: No, he had just been to visit his father recently and he came back from the time with his father and had this infection thing and the Western medicine had not been able to take care of it. And anyway, we worked for a couple of hours and then I didn’t see him for a while and I was thinking I wanted to check back with him, but I saw him about a month later at the grocery store. And I saw him and he smiled…. nothing on his face and he gave me a big hug and he was like, “Oh my God!” you know? Because it was just taken care of. And there are a lot of other stories…

>>Rick: I think I might know that guy. I think I saw somebody around town who was paralyzed on one side of his face.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, it was scary.

>>Rick: Yeah, interesting. But obviously – reality check for those who are listening, and probably a lot of people will get in touch with you after this interview – I mean, you don’t want to be discouraging but you also don’t want to be naive. So if somebody is paralyzed with MS or something, they’re not going to jump out of their wheelchair in one session with Dorothy. It could be that there might only be a little incremental improvement, or whatever.

>>Dorothy: That’s right, I mean I’ve definitely had experiences where people didn’t seem to get better too. I had one man, dear man, he called and made an appointment – and I tend to book out several months ahead – and he said he wasn’t sure he would be alive at the time of the appointment. And I think I squeezed him in earlier, but I worked with him and he had very advanced cancer. And this was over a year ago or a year-and-a-half ago …?

And the time that we worked together … the doctors were suggesting that he go into some Hospice or something, but he had very bad edema, his body was swollen up. But anyway, after the first or second session it all cleared out to the point that by that fall – this was February or January – by that fall, around October or so, he went out on this cruise to England and he went in a boat all over England and he had this beautiful vacation with his sweetheart, and that was something he really wanted to do.

But when he came home the deterioration has not been so good. And the work that we’ve done since he got back has been not too helpful, and it feels to me as if his move may be going … I shouldn’t say for sure.

>>Rick: Yeah, you don’t know, but we’ve all gotta die sometime, and the greatest saints in history have all died of something, often cancer!

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, bless his heart, he keeps making appointments with me, but we’ll see. Anything is possible, complete remission is possible.

>>Rick: I’ve heard it said, in fact, I think it was Amma who I heard say that there are certain things that can be ameliorated or intervened with, and other things, the karma is such that it’s just got to run its course and do its thing, and I don’t know how you discern between the two.

>>Dorothy: My experience is that it is possible to work directly with karma, and I know of 3 ways of addressing karma. The first way is that an individual becomes the kingpin or central pivot in a healing that addresses many people, because a lot of times the imbalances, particularly in physiology, is the same in an individual person is also the same in many other people. And particularly if the imbalance is, let’s say, genetic; they could have a number of ancestors who were dealing with that particular energy frequency.

So if that person can become the central pivot, we do a healing for them but through them, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions … you know, we’ve had healings where literally billions of people were healed at the same time.

>>Rick: How could you know that?

>>Dorothy: I counted them. Counting … it was a counting process 🙂

>>Rick: O-kay … one person, two person … you’d be there for years.

>>Dorothy: By tens, twenties, hundreds, thousands, and then there’s a point where you get a number – the number comes: “How many.” Like one time my mother came to me, my dear mother, she’s one of my best clients – she gets free healings anyway – she was having a problem with her hip. And it was so odd because we’re a fairly liberal family, but it turned out that a healing needed to be done for about 3,600 republicans – don’t ask me why republicans but it just was.

>>Rick: How did you know that? How did that come up?

>>Dorothy: It’s just the information came up as part of the healing process, that it was these individuals that needed to be healed in order to make her hip feel better. So we just did that healing for them and it made her feel better.

>>Rick: Interesting. You know, maybe she had been kind of grousing about republicans for years, or something.

>>Dorothy: No, I don’t think that was it and I’m trying to remember … I think she wasn’t even with me at the time, I believe I was out on the patio with my dear friend Nick, who I figured his name would come up sometime in this discussion.

>>Rick: I know Nick … short guy, right?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah.

>>Rick: Yeah, we know Nick … great guy.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, precious guy, and he was definitely one of the great influences in my path.

>>Rick: Okay, so you just threw a skeptical monkey wrench into the works here with this thing about healing republicans and counting billions of people that healed. And I can just see peoples’ eyebrows raising, brows furrowing … so we need to dwell on that a little bit.

>>Dorothy: Okay, let’s do it.

>>Rick: So first of all, how you could possibly attach a number to the number of people who are healed is a little bit beyond me. And a lot of times you talk to people who have intuitions about things, sometimes it’s in the form of, “Oh, the world is going to undergo a transition on such and such a date, cause I had this intuition,” and I always take that with a grain of salt because usually the thing never happens.

>>Dorothy: No, I don’t do future stuff because it’s sort of virtual and it changes when we put our attention on it, it makes it change anyway.

>>Rick: I was just using that as an example of people intuiting things that don’t pan out and that there’s no way of verifying.

>>Dorothy: Oh, right.

>>Rick: And the thing about the republicans … I mean sure, I’m sure all republicans need healing! And democrats! And independents! 🙂 But how could you possibly know that 3,600 of them got healed? And I’m just playing skeptic here …

>>Dorothy: Oh, I love it.

>>Rick: And would any of them have noticed any such healing taking place, or would it be something that was real subtle? Or maybe they just have a fleeting thought like, “Yeah, maybe Obama is not such a bad guy after all?”

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, in fact, I’m not even sure – this was like several years ago so I can’t even remember exactly what it was we healed for them, but it’s possible that we healed something like we were clearing discordant feelings or fear, or something from their mental bodies or something like that. And this particular approach to karma is something where it’s very specified, and the fact is, I don’t have any way of double-checking that work. To be perfectly honest, I don’t have a way double-checking that work, the only check I have is that my mom’s hip felt better.

>>Rick: Yeah, and somehow you associated that with the healing of 3,600 republicans.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, and at that time those 3,600 republicans were in this awareness, were in the awareness of this being, of this God-presence, and the movement happened, the shift happened, I felt the shift of the energies – all that fear that was caught there. And as I’m recalling now, it had to do with their relationship with the media and a tendency, occasionally some people have a tendency – not always republicans, sometimes other people too – have a tendency to trust authoritative sources more than their own knowingness. And so you know, God bless everyone for surviving in the best way they can, but I believe there was some maya there, some misunderstanding, false beliefs, false concepts … mental body.

>>Rick: Yeah, and I think one thing that would help to understand this is if we remember that the deeper you go the more universal you become, or the more universal you are. And that whereas on the very specific individual level it would absurd to say such things as we’ve been discussing, but if you get down to your more oceanic level of being, then all possibilities begin to blossom a lot more, and all kinds of things are possible that as an isolated individual would not be possible.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, I mean it doesn’t even feel like I’m doing it; it just feels like being is doing it. The movement of the whole creation is happening and it’s like, at that moment there is some element of my conscious awareness that’s engaged with that process, and we got to it through my mom’s hip! My mom would love this interview. Hey mom!

>>Rick: There’s this guy I interviewed name Tom Campbell, who wrote a book called My Big TOE, which stands for the ‘theory of everything,’ so this interview can be called “my mom’s hip.”

>>Dorothy: Yeah right! That’s sweet.

>>Rick: Do you have a sense – and this kind of question evokes multidimensionality and it’s hard to answer on any one level – but do you have a sense of being a “tool” of the Divine in a way?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, absolutely.

>>Rick: Like you mentioned surrender earlier saying, “When it was like ‘I’ve got to do this’ it didn’t happen, but when there was a sense of surrender, then it happened.” Surrender sort of implies letting go, and not necessarily being a pawn … it can have a negative connotation like, “Oh, well, whatever you say,” but it’s more like “Thy will be done;” putting oneself in alignment with a greater intelligence.

>>Dorothy: Yes, especially because in that process I fell that rather than me going, “Oh, whatever, You do it,” my experience is that there is a rich understanding of the fine mechanics of what’s happening while it’s happening, so I’m totally in this flow of receiving a lot of information and understanding while it’s going on.

So as far as the healing process goes, I feel like I’m learning so much. Every single time I meet with anybody, it’s just really exciting and it’s really fun, for me. so there’s definitely an element of being engaged – my small individuality also has an element of engagement there, but really only to the degree that I am in most humble worship and absolute bowing down at the feet of the Divine while the healing is going on.

>>Rick: Yeah, do you find that the degree to which you do that fluctuates, like sometimes you’re more in the way and sometimes you’re more out of the way?

>>Dorothy: Sometimes, well, one of the things is that when I work with people – and not all healers are the same, there are a lot of healers in Fairfield and so everybody’s got a different style and everybody is really cool, and I’m not saying that any style is better than another – but with me, part of my intention is that people become self-sufficient in their own healing practice so that they really understand … [so that] they have the experience and the understanding to go with it, so they’re building their own ability to build themselves.

As a result, I do a lot of speaking during the healing session, and therefore, the process of converting what’s being experienced on this really abstract level of Divine intelligence into English and into forms that the individual can really grasp, that requires a lot of work on the part of my individuality. And so that’s the other thing that I think of my individuality as doing besides just bowing down to the feet of God. It’s like, “This is God, this person who has come to me is God,” so I’m just bowing down to them, but then I’m also clearly using my intellect to define what’s happening.

>>Rick: Yeah, that’s really good, and I’ve seen people and I have friends who are really out there, in a good sense, in terms of probing and exploring very deep levels of creation, but for whom it’s really quite a stretch to verbalize it and to communicate it to others. And it’s really a life-long process to learn how to do that with greater accuracy and clarity.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, that’s actually where we get back to John Douglas and my dear friend Nick, because when I went to see John Douglas, he had been doing this work for a while – Master John Douglas…

>>Rick: He calls himself master?

>>Dorothy: I think he does, yeah, yeah. It’s okay, everybody has a title, and it’s honorable. Anyway, he had spent some time identifying some of these forms and structures which to me, when I first opened … when my awareness first opened it was like looking at the ocean. It was just like … stuff everywhere, all kinds of stuff, half of it I didn’t even know what it was.

And he had organized it, and he had definitions, and he had put it in a form that as he was describing what he was doing and what he was seeing, I was able to apply that to my own experience and say, “Oh, I see, that’s an archangel, and that’s different from a master healer, which is different from an ascended master,” and it was all falling into place … “oh, that’s the causal body , that’s the spirit body,” and [other] definitions like that.

And after seeing him for three days in a row I never had to go back (knocking on wood) to a doctor again, I haven’t been back, and that’s been 2008? … I think I saw him.

>>Rick: And that was just in a group thing at the library?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, I never even saw him individually; I just saw him in the group setting.

>>Rick: So somehow seeing him in the group setting, enabling you to sort out all these things that you had been experiencing, that had that kind of impact on your physiology?

>>Dorothy: The important thing, my important takeaway from those meetings was that he was using the ability to see, that I had also that ability, but he was utilizing it in such way as to promote healing in peoples’ physiologies, and that was the key. I’d been sick and been seeing, but I hadn’t put the two together. And at that point, that was my big Aha moment, was I watched these master healers come around the room and they would penetrate with their awareness into our bodies.

And I saw them doing it to other people, I saw them doing it to me, and I’m like, “Okay, okay, this ability to see these finer levels of my own structure will allow me to start … I can use my awareness to work with these levels and start to heal this body.”

>>Rick: Hmm, so just seeing him operate on the subtle as well as the gross enabled you to begin operating in the same way.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, it was really cool.

>>Rick: He kind of demonstrated how to do it.

>>Dorothy: He did, he was a dear, he really helped me a lot. Thank you, John Douglas.

>>Rick: Interesting. Did you ever just talk to him directly and tell him what you had gained from this?

>>Dorothy: No, no I never … he’s a little…

>>Rick: There was a big crowd there and he couldn’t stop to talk to every individual.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, and I mean on some level I sent him my gratitude, so I’m sure that he knows that my love and gratitude are with him, of course.

>>Rick: That’s cool. Yeah, I have a friend, well, probably a lot of friends but one in particular who I’ve interviewed a couple of times, who sees subtle beings a lot and sees them clustered around people if he’s in a group gathering, you know, each person has their own cluster. But he doesn’t quite know what they’re doing or why he’s seeing them or anything else,  it’s like it doesn’t seem terribly relevant to him.

>>Dorothy: Is it Stan?

>>Rick: No, it’s not Stan. Stan sees them also … it’s Francis Bennett.

>>Dorothy: Francis, right.

>>Rick: But maybe it’s not relevant to him, maybe it’s not important for his particular dharma, for his particular function to know this stuff. And when he and I had that conversation with Adyashanti about a year ago, or last October, we were talking with Adya later and Adya said, “You know, I’m kind of glad I don’t see that stuff,” he said, “I kind of came into this life with the intention not to see that stuff.”

So I guess that would lead to the question of: is what you’re talking about any kind of a “milestone” that everyone should expect to or hope to reach on their spiritual journey, or is it more of a specialized aptitude that certain people are cut out for and certain people are not, and they’re not going to really be missing out on anything if they don’t have these kinds of experiences; they could proceed onto whatever level of enlightenment there may be without necessarily going through a phase like this?

>>Dorothy: I actually don’t know. I don’t know. I know for myself that after I really started working with the ability to see into the subtle levels and whatnot, it became something I had to learn to control, like learning to play a musical instrument. Because, if we took the kids to the carnival or something, it would be overwhelming, sometimes just like too much! Or to like a really intense movie … I remember one time going to Avatar and I spent the whole first half hour of Avatar just shaking, like this, because the energy was so intense. Then I realized, I have to clear everybody in this room, I have to clear the cinema. There was a woman pregnant behind me, a few rows back …

>>Rick: You could tell that without even seeing her, you knew there was a woman pregnant back there?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, I could feel her, I could feel that physiology. At the end everybody got up and I saw … belly! So, oh … I knew there had been a belly back there.

So some things aren’t fun. It’s not fun to go to a movie if the whole time you’re there you’re just trying to like heal people ‘cause it’s violent or something! So anyway, at that time I decided that was why we went to see Avatar; it was so that I would do that healing for those people

>>Rick: And learn how to shut it down.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, and this physiology settled down. But now, yeah, it opens when it’s needed to open and the decision is not based on my individual conscious mind, like … “Oh, I’m going to open now,” necessarily; it’s that I’m realizing that we’re coming to a phase of full-functioning as human beings, where both the wisdom – the ancient earth wisdom of the body – integrates with the newer wisdom of the conscious thinking mind, which is more of a newcomer on the scene than bodies, and with the Divinity of the being of each individual, so that this whole person is working together in an integrated fashion and activities are performed from all levels of expression, simultaneously.

>>Rick: That’s really cool. It’s very interesting, so many interesting implications to that because it’s kind of my understanding that different beings have functionality in different strata of creation, not only gross and subtle but even … even animals, bats and cats and birds and frogs, they all have their little peephole into reality and they’ll do their particular lens of a nervous system.

And the idea of human beings having the capacity for multidimensionality, which is kind of not given to most other species, if any, which is not to say that you’re going to start experiencing the full spectrum of the electromagnetic field and start perceiving ultra-violate radiation and stuff, which wouldn’t be helpful, but within the context of a human makeup, the idea that we are designed to have a very full and rich range of experience and that most of us are not taking advantage of that design, is interesting.

And it’s interesting when an individual begins to use the fuller range, but it’s also interesting to consider the silo locations, because you just might be … what do they call it? Avant-garde or forerunner of something that might become common a couple of generations from now, you know, and it seems to be getting more common.

>>Dorothy: Yes, and I would certainly hope so. And I think that ties back into the collective healings because a lot of times, in order for one person to heal something or get well, really the whole field has to heal … because the whole world is healing.

You see, in the past Rick, there were times when people didn’t know to be able to heal themselves through energy work, and there are places on our earth where their energy frequencies are very low still. I have one friend, an amazing girl, who only goes around and heals World War II sites, and she does energy healing – she’d be an interesting one to interview!

>>Rick: Is she here in town?

>>Dorothy: Oh yeah, she’s here.

>>Rick: There’s no end of them. So she’ll go to Dunkirk or …

>>Dorothy: Birkenau, Auschwitz, and those places and she heals the energy frequencies in those places. And the thing is that, the events that took place in those places during the Second World War were so horrific that they left an impression on everyone, not just the people who were involved in those events, but all over the world people know the Second World War and what a huge tragedy it was, and a whole generation of people were touched by that experience.

And I was thinking, I’d like to bring up a little point about that that you might find interesting.

>>Rick: Sure.

>>Dorothy: That the listening audience might find interesting, and that is the perspective that what happened at that time on earth was there was an energy frequency around the earth which was pushing technology forward as quickly as possible and holding back morality as much possible, which was giving rise to a situation that could have been disastrous for the whole world. It has been long-known in human history that the way sometimes to overcome big karmas is to sacrifice. People know that, I mean, sacrifices have been performed and if a person, even myself … I went through this big illness and then after the illness, it’s like I blossomed forth into the new condition. So this idea that suffering can cause a turnaround and that kind of energy, is a collective belief, basically.

So what happened is – and I give the credit for this insight to my friend, because it was quite brilliant – in our conversation she said that a whole body of souls knew that a number had to come in to turn that energy around [because] it was so big. And they chose those roles – they chose to be fascists or they chose to be victims, and they came in and they played out this drama that caused that darkness to unloosen from the collective consciousness.

And my perception on it is that those who were victims sacrificed much, but they didn’t’ actually accrue bad karma in the process, whereas the fascists did. They both sacrificed because it is just as horrible to watch somebody get hurt … that’s just like PTSD, it’s just as bad to watch somebody get beheaded or something, as it is to have it happen to you, practically. So they had to watch these horrible acts and at the same time they had to carry …

>>Rick: Perform the acts.

>>Dorothy: Carry the karmic load associated with that. And also, from the TM tradition, which is part of my background, we know that Guru Dev came at that time and performed this huge earth yagya for earth…

>>Rick: Guru Dev being Maharishi’s guru.

>>Dorothy: Guru Dev being Maharishi’s guru and yagya being a performance which changes, or has an influence on modifying the way the laws of nature function. And what I feel he brought at that time among his many other amazing gifts to the earth, was the awareness that there’s a better way to do this; there’s a better way to deal with darkness, that through devotion, through yagya, through transcending, it’s possible to make modifications in the collective without actually suffering.

>>Rick: Hmm, although coincidentally, just last night I was reading the Bhagavad Gita a little bit and there was an instance where an incarnation of God, Lord Krishna, was like saying, “Okay, this slaughter has to take place. There’s no other way out of it, you’ve got to kill these guys.” And two armies pretty much annihilated one another, so there’s this huge genocide or casualty, but he didn’t just say, “Let’s just all chill and mediate together and it’s going to go away.”

>>Dorothy: Yeah, that’s true but, it had gotten out of balance too, and so he was presenting this other side. And I agree that the dynamic interaction between the light and dark forces is what gives rise to the transformation, or to the sliding across universes, however we want to look at it, and that when there’s an energy frequency in a physiology which is not, as I said before, supportive of that person’s full potential, then what we do is bring awareness to it.

And that’s one of things I do is I help bring awareness and help to identify, you know, slice down to that spot where the imbalance is. And then together, that awareness is like a pure quality – it’s a quality of purity or Sattva or sweetness of light of God energy, and it comes lock-phase in with the darkness.

And there’s a kind of give and take that occurs which gives rise to a third element, which is the energy of transformation. So the individual experiences that transformative energy and it then becomes dominant, and they start to feel the change in the physiology and then they feel better.

>>Rick: So are you saying, let’s say somebody is suffering from something, that the dark energy has kind of predominated in them and you help to enliven the light energy, and then there’s almost this little battle that takes place, a neutralization where the light energy can neutralize the dark energy and send that, and transformation comes out of it.

>>Dorothy: Exactly, exactly. And the key is the letting go, the key is allowing that dance, that cosmic dance to occur without getting in its way, and so allowing being to just sit in a quiet spot and just witness the process, not being attached to the outcome or the byproduct.

>>Rick: Right, established in yoga, perform action.

>>Dorothy: Right. Another way to look at it, just to give you a metaphor here is, in the Eastern tradition there are these forms of God – Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu – and Brahma is the creator of the creation. And so the energy flow of Brahma is from unmanifest being to the manifest level of creation, whereas the energy of Shiva is destroying, is pulling from manifest level back to the absolute, back to unbounded, infinite source energy.

And so these two forms are moving in opposite directions but Vishnu is the maintainer, and so it’s from that level, the Vishnu level, that the individual lets the awareness ride, and then those two plays go on perpetually, creating the creation, basically.

>>Rick: Interesting. And Krishna was said to be an incarnation of Vishnu, who is standing between the two armies of dark and light.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, so it’s right there, the whole story.

>>Rick: Cool.

>>Dorothy: And so it’s going on inside us all the time.

>>Rick: Yeah. Wanna wrap up a few points and then we’ll get into what we were discussing a minute ago. I find it interesting this thing you said about sacrifice and the whole … ‘cause there are people who look at something like the Holocaust and think, “How could there be a God? Or if there is a God, isn’t He kind of a jerk to allow something like this to happen?”

There have been books like Why Bad Things Happen to Good People or whatever, but if you see it from an even broader perspective, it might sound harsh to say that people made a choice to undergo that kind of experience, but in a way it’s less harsh than saying it was just capricious or arbitrary, or that there is some God but He didn’t care, you know?

>>Dorothy: Right, right. Also, if you look at the stakes, when you think of the fact that people were very, very brave who came in at that time, because the other option could have been total earth annihilation, so it was a huge loss, it was a huge sacrifice that people made and yet, it was also the time. And in the end it was successful in that the shift occurred that allowed technology to reign in a bit right then and there, for the human compassion, appreciation, understanding, a kind of a broader … it was a broadening out of people’s tolerance for differences and tolerances and certainly people’s appreciation of the Jewish people; they were kind of held in the hearts of everyone at that point.

>>Rick: Yeah, and the same could be said of what the slaves went through in America, what the Native Americans went through. And I mean, couldn’t you even say … I mean, life on earth is not necessarily a piece of cake, and everybody pretty much goes through their own trials and tribulations, and there are some that hold the perspective that it’s pretty much always by choice.

In fact, there used to be this guy in the TM movement named Charlie Lutes, and he used to give these lectures that the more conservative branch of the TM movement used to hate, but in one he said that when we come into this life we kind of beg the lords of karma, whoever they are, to just lay it on! Give us a whole shitload of … we really wanna work it off, you know? And they say, “No, no, no, you can’t handle that much, we’re only going to give you this much.” [Then we say,] “Come on! Give me more,” and they say, “No, you’re just going to get this much.”

So it’s sort of like we’re all stepping into this life with some kind of sacrifice in a way, aren’t we?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

>>Rick: That leads to a higher purpose.

>>Dorothy: People have certain structures there, and it’s interesting because your question leads to the second way of dealing with karma. We talked before about the first way kind of being a central pivot of a healing that would affect many people, like a blessing; it’s like you give a blessing onto many people.

The second way is that even though – I also feel that this is the truth, that people come in with certain decisions that they’ve made and challenges they want to face in order to learn certain lessons in this life – we have a choice even after we’re in this life. Sometimes a person will, for example – and this is slightly different but for example – in a past life, perhaps as an ascetic of some sort, took a vow of poverty, and then after that life finished, because the vow of poverty had been between their soul and God and not necessarily associated with the physical body, then the next lifetime or the next lifetime they may still find that they’re poor and they’re poor, and they don’t know why they can’t seem to make any money … you know, they’re trying, right?

And it’s a matter of going back and finding that original vow, that original decision, whatever past life it was in and shifting it, and talking to the soul and explaining to it that, “Maybe we’ll just keep that vow with that lifetime and you can release it now, you’re released of the karma of that.” And another thing is the karmic board … some members of the karmic board are beautiful and renowned; all of them are beautiful, amazing, and renowned individuals, and one of them…

>>Rick: By ‘karmic board’ you mean some kind of beings who determine karma?

>>Dorothy: Right, right, and everybody has some time with that collective before coming into the human form…

>>Rick: Michael Newton’s books, by the way, if this is new to people. He’s written books about lives between lives and how you review previous lives and plan for the next one, when you’re in-between lives. Anyway…

>>Dorothy: But my experience is the karmic board is not exclusive to the spirit world, but that even now people can come and we can do some renegotiating; it’s possible to renegotiate karma. So that’s another way to deal with this.

>>Rick: Yeah, well Patanjali said, “Avert the danger which has not yet come,” meaning you could dissolve impending karma by taking certain steps or certain measures with spiritual practice, and so on.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, and my experience is that one of these masters from the karmic board – Master Lady Nada – has a way of going into the area where the karma. Like if I see an area of the being where some karma is there, her/that intelligence can go in and basically clean house. She goes in and it’s like a big mess, like a big entropic area, and she compactifies and compactifies and compactifies until all the darker values have been released from that area and it comes out looking like a crystal or something, through which the light of God can then shine. So that’s the second way, the second way of dealing with karma.

>>Rick: Hmm, one thing that keeps coming up in the back of my mind is, I know that a certain portion of my listening audience has an orientation that awakening or enlightenment is kind of a … one has to get down to the real nitty-gritty, which is self-realization, and that the whole New Age world of beings and healings and all the stuff, and ETs and all the stuff that the so-called “New Age World” deals with is a sidetrack, it’s a distraction, and that these people are getting hung-up in all kinds of ooga-booga, and they’re probably diverting themselves from going straight to the source, straight to the goal.

And we’ve been talking about multidimensionality and I used to kind of have that orientation and I think there’s validity to it because I think a lot of people do get hung-up in the glitter and miss out on the … or to use Maharishi’s analogy, they go running after little mines in the territory and neglect to capture the fort.  But, I think the key thing here is … and I mean, you didn’t ask for this stuff; you were dedicating your life to capturing the fort, to getting on to self-realization.

>>Dorothy: Yeah. You know, we’re talking about healing, and the thing is that each person finds their own way for their own Divinity to heal themselves. And if it’s in the form of clearing karma, for example, through this particular aspect of their intelligence, then if that’s what works then we go with that, because I’m basically focused on helping people manifest from the reality they don’t want to manifest the reality that they do want.

So it’s like Daryl Anka said, it’s like a permission-slip. Basically, if the permission-slip works, then we use it! So you could say, “Well that’s sort of a sidetrack,” but for some people that’s the way that their karma is able to resolve itself. So, good!

>>Rick: And so if one’s desire is for self-realization or enlightenment and one doesn’t care a heck of a lot about healing abilities or subtle perception and all that stuff, might you say that it might still be necessary for them to undergo a lot of healing in order to realize that goal, to realize that desire? Or could a person actually somehow do an end-run around some stuff that needs to be healed and somehow attain enlightenment, without having healed and resolved a lot of stuff?

>>Dorothy: It’s a very good question. My feeling is that in that case, it still is going to come down to earth-healing, because … and that may involve some healing of the body, because a person could, for example, get enlightened but the physiology is all falling apart-y, like I was having that amazing experience in the mall and I was a wreck! And so the question is also about the quality of life, that it has to integrate on all levels of the being, and that in order … our bodies have this ancient wisdom that is tied into this whole field, this whole relative plain of existence, and that’s an important part of the picture, it’s part of the scenario.

If they’re not interested in themselves and they kind of don’t care that they’re sick a lot of the time or whatever, or maybe they’re just healthy all the time – I don’t know, but whatever the case, in order for all of us to experience this transformation, it is important, I think that the field also shifts, that the whole universe shits.

>>Rick: In other words, for some kind of societal enlightenment to take place the field need to be cleaned up?

>>Dorothy: At this time, at this time. We’ve had the Jesus’s and the various ones who got crucified or whatever because they came in with all that light and all that being, but the reality around them couldn’t deal with them and so it didn’t work out so well for them. And so I would imagine that most of the listening audience would like to enjoy enlightenment and also enjoy a beautiful place to live, and a happy in environment and no pain in the body, and all those nice relative pleasures that go along with awakening inner reality.

>>Rick: Yeah. Well you know, there is sort of a second wave taking place in the spiritual community, in fact, Adyashanti and Francis Bennet are going to give a talk about this later this month in March, March 26th, 2015, in Santa Rosa I believe, or maybe it’s San Rafael … I think it’s San Rafael, California.

>>Dorothy: Are we going to be there? I think we may be there at that time. I think we’re going to be in California around then.

>>Rick: Oh, cool. Well, it’s a big state, but if you can make it … In any case, there are a lot of people who were kind of strictly nondual some years ago who are saying, “Wait a minute, I actually have a life and a body and a family, and relationships and financial concerns and health concerns and all this stuff,” and they’re somehow seeking to integrate that realization they had or are hoping to have, into a human life, much more.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, all the players, in think, are important, and in the end, integration is the key word there, that we’re working together with all the aspects of our being and another point from Daryl Anka – God bless Daryl Anka, thank you dear.

>>Rick: Bashar.

>>Dorothy: Bashar, it was that as human beings we are at the top of our skill as manifestors, it’s not like we’re in kindergarten or something; that we manifest beautifully, amazingly, astoundingly, and that that process is part of the human condition. So any of our listeners – most of our listeners are in the human condition … so it’s relative. It’s important to take into consideration how we bring that Divinity to the gross, superficial level of reality and allow it to blossom forth to all new levels.

>>Rick: Yeah, so perhaps to just take another stab at it … so it’s not really sufficient to emphasize on, “You are not a person, there is essentially no individuality; you are just a cosmic being.”  You are a person, and a precious and important person, it’s just that you’re not only that. As you go deeper, you get down to the point in which we’re all the same.

>>Dorothy: You’ve touched on a really interesting point that’s coming up to the forefront of what I’m doing right now, and that is that I feel that a long historical memory of ourselves as people has been somewhat repressed, of how we think of ourselves. I think it is important to identify ourselves and our individuality, but it’s important to redefine that as a much higher, much more Divine expression than we have in the past and we can’t look to our ancestors to do this.

>>Rick: Because there’s no precedent.

>>Dorothy: Right, I think especially in those of us who are descendent from the Christian faith or whatever, where God is way up here and the born-in-sin is way down here, and you know, only through the Blood of the Lamb and all that. It’s been also considered to be one of the great moral sins over the last centuries that people would be vain or conceited, and I’m not advocating vanity or conceit but I am advocating knowledge of self, in a very individualized way, as incredibly brilliant, incredibly bright.

It brings me to a really interesting discovery which may seem like a little tangent, as per your description before, but maybe this will help clarify for the listeners. I perceive the physiology as a smooth continuum from the absolute field of Source to the relative field of physical manifestation, but I identify certain divisions in there in order to focus attention concisely to the areas of concern.

And down at the subtle end of the range, the physiology and the environment take on such interesting qualities and the causal body, which is nearly to the Source, has this ability to use the raw energy, the pure energy that comes from being, to start to create shape, to start to formulate the very subtle forms that will eventually give rise to the gross, material-level, specific forms. And there are amazing locations in that field.

In the TM community we have this area of 1;07;10, which is the field of architecture … thank you, thanks Rick. And that’s based on the principle that different locations in the house will be better for different activities, based on the relationship to the sun, and the flow of light and air through the house. So also it is like that in this causal realm of creation, that different locations have lively different laws of nature that are better for certain activities than others.

>>Rick: You mean geographic locations, like maybe Sedona or Stone Hedge or those kinds of places?

>>Dorothy: Oh, no, those places have their own energy frequencies that are quite wonderful, but I’m actually thinking that … when we think of those places you actually have to travel to get there, these places, it’s a matter of cognizing them. It’s just a matter of knowing what the energy frequency feels like in those locations and activating or enlivening that energy frequency through … like through memory, you know? Like through a way of bringing up the feeling of that place.

Like think of your childhood home, for example, there’s a feeling of the childhood home – for most people that’s kind of special, and all you have to do is think of your childhood home and all of a sudden that special feeling comes again, so it’s like that. And there is a place where archetypal templates are located that can be utilized by the causal body, by the intelligence of the causal level of the physiology, that allow a person to kind of click-in certain forms that would be helpful to them.

There are templates for absolute abundance and wealth, or for perfect health, eternal youth, all kinds of different … I’m only starting to explore in this area but it’s got a lot of potential, because it’s somehow tied into the last thing you were saying, and I’m not quite remembering what that was.

>>Rick: Well let me just ask you a question and maybe it’ll come back, and that is that, you’re exploring that area but I wouldn’t know where to begin. And probably the average listener wouldn’t know where to begin to find these templates and enliven them, so of what practical significance to we dunderheads who don’t have all this subtle perception?

>>Dorothy: I don’t consider anybody to be a dunderhead, but there is a template for the awareness of the self of the individuality as absolutely, divinely adorable and precious. And most of the people who are suffering in some way or another are doing so based on the fact they felt they had to take on … they had to experience some suffering or pain; I did when I was suffering, more, because they didn’t really deserve it, or on some level they weren’t precious enough to be able to get what they wanted to get without going through some discomfort as well.

And if there’s one thing that would be really beautiful for everybody who’s watching this video, and for you too Rick, would be to receive at this time a download or the form, the archetypal form of this awareness of one’s self as so completely precious, so completely beloved, so completely adorable, without any shadow, without any break or any doubt whatsoever, so that the physical level of reality can start to rise up to reflect that highest potential, that highest good, that each one of us really owns already.

Like you were saying dunderheads but really, we all are this beautiful, amazing thing, we all are God. We all are expressions of God, we’re all made of stardust, you know … you don’t buy this at Walmart. It’s special, it’s good stuff.

>>Rick: Ah, it’s just false modesty; I think I’m a pretty cool guy.

>>Dorothy: I always thought you were a cool guy Rick.

>>Rick: But how do you do this download?

>>Dorothy: Okay! Good question, I love it. Okay, so, we all experience ourselves and most I would expect your listening audience perceives themselves to be more than just their physical bodies, right? We’ve got the emotional self, the mental self, etcetera.

>>Rick: Consciousness.

>>Dorothy: Consciousness.

>>Rick: Pure consciousness.

>>Dorothy: Consciousness, Being. My experience is there’s a great overarching Being of all creation and that Being – the students at the campus call it Purushottama, but I think it has lots of different names – and that Being constrains itself into the limitations of individuality. And so we all carry a form of God, as us. We carry God; Being is in us, it is the very life in us. And that part of ourselves is very well-capable of receiving vast amounts of information, vast amounts of knowledge.

For some people, it’s just a matter of realizing the opening of the channels of awareness between their individuality and all the cosmic knowledge – all the Akashic record and all the knowledge which is accessible to us through the great infinite wisdom of our own beings, and so that probably would be another really good thing for everybody.

>>Rick: Well isn’t that easier said than done? I mean it happened for you but …

>>Dorothy: My experience of that it’s a matter of allowing it to happen, allowing the awareness to flow. I’m glad you’re getting in and asking me more about the mechanics of this thing. Usually when I’m sitting with someone one-on-one and doing the healing, it’s just a matter that we’re sitting together and we put the attention in this area. Now some people for example, my experience is that there are these chords or beams of light or energy that come out the crown of the head and connect in to the cosmic reality, and for some people they could be a little blocked up.

So if we’re working one-on-one and we look and see, “Oh, there’s a blockage of some kind,” we go in and address the blockage and the blockage starts to move. That blockage moves out, the chords open up and clear up, and then the information can just flush into the system. And I’m just asking right now if it’s possible if the masters, the ascended masters, who are good at this kind of thing, and Divine Mother – they’re all expressions of divinity, right, all the beings are – if they can check the chords of everybody watching right now.

And we’ll just look for a moment, I’m just looking out into the listening audience, into the future listening audience, and the past, and see the chords of everybody’s heads and see any blockages that need to clear. Okay, okay, so I, at this moment, am experiencing a movement of energy. As for the listening audience, whatever they experience is what they experience, so each will experience this movement to their own degree and their own ability, but whether they experience the movement or not, the movement is happening.

My being is feeling it happening. And so what is happening is a kind of clearing of these chords. Now I happen to know – speaking in the causal realm of these different locations – there are archives, there are places where knowledge is archived and there are beings overseeing these archives. And those beings are actually saying to me right now, because I’ve never done anything like this – it’s my first time on a TV like this, on a camera – that they’re having to make slight adjustments for everybody because there is so much power in this transformation that it’s very good that each person is receiving the information they need, according to their ability to rise to their full potential, and to express divinity in its highest and best possible way. And thank you.

And also there are certain kinds of prayers that are taking place right now, like yagyas taking place … and gratitude is being offered. I don’t know if people can feel that, but I’m feeling these waves of gratitude starting to flush through the systems, physical systems. And for some people, their ancestors are also being drawn into the process, so the ancestors’ chords are also clearing and they’re also receiving this access to these cosmic channels of information.

And I’m just really, above all, enjoying the feeling of gratitude and forgiveness that’s flowing through the collective right now as this is happening because…

>>Rick: Whose gratitude is it? Your gratitude, the Being’s gratitude, the people – the viewers’ gratitude, or just a mutual, collective wave of gratitude? And gratitude to whom?

>>Dorothy: Beautiful. So the gratitude flows through the being to God, to Divine Mother, who in turn loves our love more than anything, and as a response to this love, gives blessings back. And in some cases I’m feeling a lot of gratitude in the physiologies of the people watching, in some cases [in] their ancestors, certainly the beings who are the archivists are very happy. It makes the creation happy when we interact with it and we bring our awareness to these subtler levels of creation.

It’s exciting, it’s a thrill, it’s part of history in the making, is that an opening or awakening of this knowledge is coming into the field of life right now on earth, it’s very exciting. And it’s not just through me; lots of people do this stuff! They’re doing it everywhere, people have been doing it all the time.

>>Rick: Yeah, it’s like an epidemic kind of thing going on.

>>Dorothy: It’s kind of exciting, kind of fun.

>>Rick: It’s fun to be a part of it.

>>Dorothy: Yeah! Yeah, beautiful.

>>Rick: In a way, I mean, all is well and wisely put, and things don’t happen by mistake. And it seems that it’s part of the cosmic design for people to get very locked down, myopic, in a very limited range of experience and awareness and understanding and feeling, and so on and so forth – somehow or other that seems to be happening so it must be part of the design. And it may actually be an expression of a principle which is essential to the actual manifestation of the universe, because if things didn’t individuate then we couldn’t have a universe.

So we’ve got to go from a complete amorphous field of all possibilities down to the atom and the atomic particle, and the molecule, and the cell, and all the little individuated expressions. And then those have all gone through billions of years of metamorphosis to the point where we have these sophisticated instruments (pointing to the human body) which can begin to turnaround and re-explore in the opposite direction.

>>Dorothy: Right, right, and I really feel the people that are more coming down to … and they want the nitty-gritty, and they want to know that this is also an expression of this incredible intellect. And the desire to bring this knowledge to the point where the intellect discriminates. And so it’s putting up boundaries all the time in order to organize and make sense and compartmentalize everything, and to bring the divinity to that level of being. It is very exciting actually when it starts to move in and one can see that you can have all these boundaries and compartmentalized concepts, and yet at the same time infinity is also there. Infinity is also there and it moves, it moves through that area.

>>Rick: Yeah, this is just what you just said, but look at the distinction between unbounded, non-individuated, homogeneous Being, and beings live ourselves who can appreciate that homogenous unboundedness and yet at the same time talk about it and think about it and express it, and interact and live, and so on and so forth. We’ve come a long way baby.

>>Dorothy: It glorifies it, and maybe this is the thing, is that we’re giving that level of glorification back to the Creator all the time just by existing, by the nature of our existence. And so again, it’s interesting, your questions are bringing us back to points that are in some ways very personal too, is this point of being able to allow that level of appreciation and adoration to come back to the individual form too.

It really, I feel, is a key to unlocking peoples’ full potential and unlocking their ability to start to move in a new way, in a freer way within themselves.

>>Rick: Yeah, and it kind of seems to me that God designed it this way, so to speak, if I can anthropomorphize God, but it’s like this is the intention of this evolutionary force which has been governing and guiding the universe, orchestrating things for billions of years, was to bring greater and greater degrees of complexity and sophistication into form or forms that are increasingly complex and sophisticated, so as to be able to be living embodiments of, or expressions of that Divine intelligence.

It’s sort of like how a friend of mine always says, “We’re sense-organs of the Infinite.” So it’s like the Infinite wants to be able to enter into creation and live through forms and experience human life, initially without the Divine dimension but eventually with it, as well as with the human dimension.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, part of that mechanism is found in the God-Presence, in the presence of God within us. And when we get a situation like what just happened, where a healing takes place and these forms of gratitude start to flow to God, and then God brings blessings back, which causes more waves of gratitude, which causes more waves of gratitude, it starts to create something I call “God loops,” which remind me of musical instruments almost, but they’re like loops within loops within loops, like a fractal.

Reality looks like a fractal at those finer levels of creation. And it occurred to me one day that it was the Vedas, that it was Vedic knowledge, because Vedic knowledge is constructed like that – loops within loops within loops … mandalas within mandalas, like that. And that these are the building blocks, these are the forms out of which the templates which I mentioned earlier are created. And they hum, and they ring, with a kind of energy frequency, a sound value, a subtle sound, like that. And each individual has the whole totality of that in their God-Presence.

And we also know the Vedic literature to be a body of literature, which I feel is continuing to evolve. So as we engage our whole beings in these procedures that involve purification of the darker energies from the system and upliftment of the being, we’re literally setting up a system whereby new expressions of knowledge are being formed.

>>Rick: Hmm. So it may have been a bit of a logical leap for people for you to have thrown in Vedic literature like that, because Vedic literature is considered by most people – well, if they know anything about it – as this sort of ancient lore, much of it fanciful and mythological, that was written thousands of years ago … so were the Upanishads and the Itihasas and stuff, but what you’re saying is that that literature is a written representation of fundamental realities of laws of nature that are intrinsic to the functioning of the universe. And since we are part of the universe, they’re also intrinsic to the functioning of our physiology, and that can somehow actually be cognized in a living form in their essential nature; it’s not just dusty old books, but those books are just a very crude representation of impulses of intelligences that …

>>Dorothy: Or very sophisticated representations.

>>Rick: Or very sophisticated representations, but you know, subject to the whims of human error and translations and what not, but that are just actually representations of impulses that are essential to the conduction, to the manifestation, to the operation of creation, and to we, as part of creation. Sorry to put words in your mouth but I’m just trying to make sense

>>Dorothy: Yes, yes … no, it makes sense and that’s exactly what I was saying, and I feel that that part of the Being resides with the God-Presence. So it is my experience that this structure that allows for manifestation to happen sits at that level of the God-energy of the individual, so it is good to have integration between that part of the individuality and conscious thinking mind, for example, physical body.

So the mechanism by which that integration takes place is essentially what I call ‘energy healing.’ This is the process, it’s on going – at this time it’s ongoing – is going in and finding those spots where there’s a little something not completely balanced, you’re not quite right, and addressing them by bringing the attention to that location. And then clearly defining what it is that needs to shift, and then allowing the shift to take place by bringing together the awareness with this area, and then going through the process of the transformation, which has to do with…

So think of it as a subtle action; it’s not a gross action. You can, if you want … if you have a boil you can go to the doctor and get it removed or put a band aid or whatever, but this is a healing that’s taking place on a level using one’s own attention and conscious mind to basically address whatever area needs to be handled.

And what we find is that all aspects of creation, from the physical body or even from plants and animals, all parts of creation all the way to God, to God’s own Self, speak the universal language of perception and experience. So by realizing that there is not really a blockage in our ability to communicate to the very highest levels of creation because we speak from the impulses from the heart, that it is entirely possible to engage any level of nature’s functioning in a process that will allow for the one individual to evolve or to grow or to change in the way that they see is appropriate for them.

I encourage people to align their vision of their own growth and evolution with the highest possible vision that they have for themselves, and that there’s actually a subtle organ … you know, a lot of people know about chakras and meridians, but thanks to master John Douglas for suggesting that there are other organs, and seeing that there are many subtle organs inside the physiology, within the range of individuality. And one of them is this chord of light or beam that runs from the crown of the body down through the body and into mother earth, and also, that internal compass is there, in the chord. This has been my experience, that I’ve located where it sits.

And one of the greatest things a person can do for themselves is to check their inner compass, let the awareness go into the center of the body and feel: which direction am I aligning myself? Am I seeing a future for myself which I really desire, or am I aligned with something that’s not really very happy, or whatever. So get the alignment going and allow one’s own divinity to allow, to a certain degree, that alignment, because whatever any one of us can picture for ourselves as our greatest future, there’s even a greater future than that!

So part of it is there’s a little letting go in that and just letting the divinity just … you know, aim it as well as you can to the North star, and then you let the God-Presence also take it the rest of the way up. So that we get the inner compass completely aligned and then what happens is, one’s ability to determine which direction they’re going becomes clearer. It’s easy to kind of check things, “Oh, should I go to the store right now or should I wait to 4 o’clock this afternoon?” And the inner compass is aligned and it’s like, “Oh no, you should go at 3 o’clock this afternoon, then you’ll run into your friend, and this will be a very important thing …”

>>Rick: Yeah, not that you have to know those details, but that you just feel the impulse to go at 3 and there’s your friend.

>>Dorothy: Yeah.

>>Rick: it’s an interesting point. Christ said, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all else shall be added unto thee,” so it’s kind of a fanciful way of saying, “Align yourself with the inner compass and then things will work out in your favor,” if you have that orientation, that direction.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, it’s just little things or little decisions that you make, or what you just feel like eating that day … each little thing.

>>Rick: Right, and a person could actually misinterpret and trivialize what you just said and think, “Alright, what do I really want? Well, I really want to be with this other person,” or “I really want to be independently wealthy and not have to work at this stupid job,” or something, and they might make abrupt, radical, cataclysmic changes in their lives which wouldn’t work out so well, because they’re really not being motivated by their inner compass; they’re mistaking their individual whims for that inner guidance.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, the alignment of the inner compass is a very systemic sort of thing, it’s like getting yourself all lined up in the right position. But then the details of finding an appropriate mate, or being able to produce wealth, or whatever, that comes down to these templates that are a little … hmmm… they’re at the causal level of the physiology – that’s my experience, this is where we form them and create them. We also, at that level, have organs that can do wonderful things for our bodies, including making resinous medicines, healing the body, knowing things.

>>Rick: Making medicines just sort of internally in terms of hormones and endocrine changes, you mean?

>>Dorothy: At that level, we aren’t really talking about hormones that are measurable by Western medicine, but what we’re talking about are forms of consciousness, energy frequencies, which can be directed specifically to parts of the physiology to allow those areas to feel better. So the body is able to utilize consciousness to create … let’s see, here’s an example. There’s a part of the body that’s protective, I call it the ‘astral body,’ and that astral body is a fairly subtle level of the physiology, but viruses and bacteria know that we are made in layers, and they also have an astral layer and they know that they can camouflage themselves as, let’s say, endorphins or some chemical that we would like, and they can slide in at the astral level. Once they’ve penetrated that level of the physiology, then a little later the body starts to feel sick.

So they know that they can penetrate our protective shield, so to say, and what an individual can do if they’re tending to come down with colds a lot, and that kind of thing – colds and flu – is they can produce a rasayana in the causal body, which is harder, stronger, than anything we find in the relative field here, because it doesn’t have to conform to 3-D laws of physics and it’s also more pliable. And it can go into that astral body and it can make the astral body very, very strong and invincible.

>>Rick: And rasayana again means … a healing medicine or influence?

>>Dorothy: It’s like a subtle medicine and it goes to a subtle level of the body.

>>Rick: So it’s not even chemical necessarily; it could just be astral or on a pre-material level.

>>Dorothy: This is correct. Because I’m not a doctor, you know, I don’t prescribe medicine and stuff like that, but I love the idea that if the individual has an organ in their physiology that has the potential of creating subtle medicines – medicines made of light, for them – that that organ gets activated and woken up and starts to work for them, so that they protect themselves spontaneously and naturally.

>>Rick: And again, you mean a subtle organ, like a chakra, you don’t mean like a liver or…

>>Dorothy: Actually, they can go all the way into the physical organs, yes, they can go all the way to the physical level.

>>Rick: Yeah. What you just said brings up an interesting thing which is, you referred to a cold as sort of having a devious intelligence, so would it be true to say a disease like Ebola or measles or something like that has a sort of malevolent intention that governs it on a more collective scale? In addition to the fact that you hear all the time about resistant bacteria, so there’s an intelligence in the bacteria which has allowed them to morph into a kind of invulnerability to antibiotics; it’s not a random thing, they actually undergo this transformation. So are we dealing with larger entities, darker entities which govern various diseases and maladies, and what you’re talking about is somehow gaining the ability to resist or combat or counteract those entities?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, but I don’t really think of them as malicious. I think all the beings are just beings and that any body of entities, for instance, say a person is having digestive difficulties and the bacteria in the gut are not well. You could say, well, there’s an overseeing intelligence for all the gut bacteria and it’s not healthy, but it’s possible to support the evolution of that level of creation as well.

And I remember at the time that this Ebola scenario came forth, I was asking the intelligence of creation, “Isn’t there something we can do? Because we know that these bacteria, they have a fairly short lifespan and so they morph, they change themselves pretty quickly. And if they’re capable of morphing themselves into forms that are detrimental to human life, why not that they could morph themselves into forms that are supportive of human life?”

And at that time I got a download … got a download that suggested that we could do exactly that. In fact, we can turn our own bodies into living, breathing carriers of the very finest, the very highest forms of bacteria that not only would be supportive to our physiologies, but would literally influence the fields of bacteria over the whole earth. And just very simply, by using the same channels of communication that they’ve been communicating with us for centuries, for millennia, all these thousands of nerves that run between the gut and the spine are already communication channels wide open, so it’s just a matter of within our own body creating the energy frequency of complete love and appreciation and value and forgiveness – if one is very sick, forgiveness – and sending that to the gut through communication channels. And they respond because this is a universal language – the language of feeling.

And so, if one does that, you will find that immediately the gut bacteria respond with a wave of love back. And there is a kind of communication that takes place there, and communicating to these beings in our own body allows them to understand their place, their role in the wholeness of creation, because we’re like God to them, we’re they’re ecosystem. And so by blessing them in that way they begin to respond by reproducing in a way that supports wellbeing, supports the health of their ecosystem.

It doesn’t hurt to have a nicely aligned compass and also put in that suggestion that maybe they can make you immortal :-).

>>Rick: Evidently, 90% of the cells in our body are not human, you probably know that. They’re just all sorts of bacteria and little…

>>Dorothy: Yeah, we’re like a soup, it’s like a soup.

>>Rick: And we’d die without them.

>>Dorothy: Exactly! So, I mean, how often do people think of giving them that level of appreciation and gratitude, that we would die them? Some people go through their whole life and never even say thank you. So it’s kind of nice and what I found in my own practice is that when people start doing that, the response from the gut bacteria and the bacteria in the body is so great, they really, literally change. They can change overnight.

>>Rick: Hmm. So part of what I hear you saying is that if large numbers of people –majority of people in the world, for instance – were attuned in the way you’ve been describing, that all of these diseases would become a thing of the past, not just because of improved hygiene and things like that in the world, but because we’d be more in tune with nature’s intelligence and those undesirable things would have less of a role to play, or less of a place in our lives.

>>Dorothy: I would hope so Rick but I don’t know, you know, it’s a big experiment. I know for individuals … individual people who have done this process and had really beautiful results.

>>Rick: So generally whatever happens on an individual level can happen on the collective level if enough individuals do it.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. And it’s easy, it takes like a second. It takes a second to send a wave of love to your bacteria, right?

>>Rick: So during this little break that we took during the taping, we were talking about something we might want to discuss, which has to do with Jesus and the levels of miracles, so to speak, although there’s no such thing as a miracle, but the degree of things that a human being is capable of. So what were your thoughts on that that you wanted to talk about?

>>Dorothy: Thanks for asking. Let me just clue in for a second and see. It would be really nice to manifest instantly, for everyone to be able to do this. I think one of the things that holds back is the feeling that some people have the potential to do that but I don’t have the potential to do that, or, “That person is so pretty and sweet and adorable but I’m not” – you know, that kind of element there.

This is my feeling, is that if Jesus could come back and do it again I suppose He would do it the same way, but not many people, not many souls have chosen to take that path again because it was so horrific – the death was so horrific and all that. And I’m just thinking that the way it’s going to come about is for everyone to change together; we’re all going to grow together in that direction and in so doing, it’s going to become fairly normal and people won’t think of it as unusual.

And I kind of look at it as if we’re all computer programmers, and there are certain laws of nature that are getting activated right now that allow us to have a lot more control over how we manifest our reality, but each of us has different interests and each of us will manifest differently. And a lot of times I know that tools come forth in healings with my clients, and I know that people are getting these tools because they’re supposed to do something cool with them, different from what I do with them. So it’s exciting, I think it’s a really exciting time.

>>Rick: Isn’t it sort of a safeguard that people can’t just manifest whatever the heck they want? Because I mean, look at all the people in the world, and if all the people in the world, as they are now, could actually manifest whatever they wanted, oh man, it would be a pretty weird scene.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, but I’m sure that everything is manifested at some level of reality; at some of the simultaneous, parallel universes everything is happening, everything has happened, everything will happen, like that. But the fortunate thing is it seems that each universe has some limitations on it; if this flower is orange in this universe then it is not blue in this universe.

>>Rick: Yeah, it has to be either or.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, so at the level of where the rubber meets the road, of the actual manifestation, we do have certain limitations or boundaries in which we’re working.

>>Rick: Yeah, and whenever the lottery prize gets really big they always have it on the news of all these people lining up for miles to buy their lottery ticket, each one wanting to win the lottery. Obviously all those people can’t win the lottery and probably shouldn’t win the lottery, and if it was possible to manipulate reality to that extent for everyone, we’d have a pretty crazy world, you know?

>>Dorothy: But think, if there is a universe where you won the lottery, where I won the lottery, then utilizing those principles one could slide over to that universe, where everything else is the same except for that one point, if that’s the one that you desire to manifest.

So you could still have your nice wife and your nice home and your dogs and everything, but you could just have that one thing changed.

>>Rick: Yeah, the latter universe.

>>Dorothy: It’s possible, anything’s possible.

>>Rick: Anything’s possible.

>>Dorothy: I really do definitely believe that.

>>Rick: Yeah, but there’s a purpose to the structure of things, and it’s almost like … I realize that we don’t like constriction, and what is it Maharishi used to say? He used to give this talk about how routine work kills the genius in man, and he talked about culturing the ability to maintain unbounded awareness while focusing sharply. And so there’s a value in the fact that flowers don’t turn into salamanders if I want them to, ‘cause otherwise the creation would be utter chaos, with everything just morphing and changing.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, we come back to the inner compass, and that inner compass, one would necessarily want to align it with the most … the highest potential, the most complete, fullness, Brahman, totality that one could possibly achieve. And based on that alignment, maybe the lottery fits in with that, but maybe it doesn’t. Maybe you’ll get your billion some other way, or don’t.

>>Rick: Well, as the Rolling Stones saying, “You can’t always get what you want, but you get what you need,” or maybe it comes down to having what one wants align with what one needs or what one really should have.

>>Dorothy: Yes, yes, that’s really good Rick, that’s really good. And you know, that’s where we start to see the relationship between the physical body and the conscious mind and then that higher attunement to the level of Divine Being, because if all these parts of the self are on the same page and are working together as a very coherent unit, then what you desire is what you need and is completely supported by the environment, and it just happens. And when that integration is a little bit off kilter, then you might think that you wanted the flower to become a salamander, but it wasn’t really connected up with the rest of the story.

A lot of times people come to me and they’re fighting their bodies because they’re sick in some way, and they feel like, “Well my body wants me to be fat and I don’t want to be, and I don’t understand…” and there’s a lack of communication in that area. And so again, we look into the mechanics of how universal communication really works. It’s not enough to try to slap the body around and “make it” change; it’s more a matter of going in and finessing it into the change.

And that’s where we get into these elements that you were saying, some people feel are a little off the path of creating a scenario, basically, of allowing the person to accept a new reality. And if that means going through a period of healing where they start to gain understanding or appreciation of the finer levels of their being and see that something that doesn’t show on the surface as a change but feels like a change inside, is valid, it’s a real change and it does make a difference.

>>Rick: So in a way what you’re saying, I think, in what we’ve been discussing here for a few minutes, it brings that whole thing of The Secret to a different level. Whereas, it’s not really a matter of desiring the pearl necklace and visualizing it and putting post-it notes on the refrigerator and eventually getting the pearl necklace, it’s more a matter of: “My first concern is to attune to the will of God,” if we want to put it that way. What is my highest good? What is it that I really need and want? And perhaps it’s not a pearl necklace, but whatever it is, that’s what I want, then you can kind of align with your best interest.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. And maybe you really want the pearl necklace and the inner compass isn’t feeling very pearl-necklacy, so that’s okay too because that just means that there’s some energetic frequency structure in there that maybe needs to be adjusted a little bit, or modified to get so that the pearl necklace lines up with the inner compass, and everything lines up and then it comes.

>>Rick: So it might be that you either drop the desire for the pearl necklace, or it might be that the inner compass kind of goes, “Okay, pearl necklace, I can do that,” and then it lines up.

>>Dorothy: Right, and that’s where the templates come in. because the templates, they lock, they almost remind me of Legos or tinker toys or building blocks or something; they kind of lock-sync in with that inner compass. The inner compass is really at the very finest level of the physiology and those templates are more at the next level up, and they’re kind of smaller and more defined and specialized.

And the thing is that there is an archetypal template for various things, say for attaining beautiful jewelry, and then that archetypal template comes in and it has to morph a little bit in order to coordinate with what is happening in each individual. And it’s a subtle process but it’s not an impossible process, and a lot of the viewers do experience this regularly in their dreams. What you’ll notice, if anybody out there is keeping track of their dreams or paying attention or noticing what happens in the dreams, they’ll notice that often in the dreams, particularly those in the early morning, before awakening, we structure on a feeling level what we’re going to do for that day.

Often there are specific structures … some people might have noticed for instance, that there are places that they go in their dreams that they visit from time to time, and the places don’t really change that much. I know I’ve had the experience of going places and thinking, “Oh yeah, I remember dreaming about this place when I was a teenager!” And remembering the feeling in that place so distinctly and it’s still the same.

So we think of the dream reality as very chaotic but actually, at that time, the nervous system is functioning in a way that it is actually forming these structures out of feelings, which then are carried forth into the daily activity and help form the actual experiences that we have during the day. I dreamed about coming to this interview, he – my husband – dreamed about it last week, or yesterday, I think.

>>Rick: I dream about this particular mountain, I’ve been dreaming about it for decades. And I can visualize it in my mind perfectly well right now, and it’s this dream where I’m trying to hike up this mountain, and sometimes I take a road and sometimes I’m climbing up a mountain path, but it’s always this same mountain I don’t know what that’s about but it’s just this dream I’ve been dreaming about for 30 or 40 years probably.

>>Dorothy: I know that frequency. I’ve seen that and my experience was, I was at that mountain was when I was doing lessons at the school of mysteries. And I found that I always find myself on the mountain, I always find myself again and again in different forms, and I feel that it’s one of the … think of it like a form of study or a lesson plan, almost, that each part of the mountain has its own gift that it gives you. And it’s good that you go back and that you didn’t just go to the top – “Okay, I’m done.”

>>Rick: Even now, I’m picturing other scenarios that I dreamt about that mountain – sometimes I’m skiing there, sometimes I’m hiking there, sometimes it’s summer, sometimes it’s winter. It’s kind of like that thing in Close Encounters of A Third Kind, where Richard Dreyfuss keeps messing with the mashed potatoes and saying, “This means something.” 🙂

>>Dorothy: This field of education, this school of mysteries is a place where we learn to manipulate consciousness in very sophisticated manners and very subtle manners. I remember times I’d be taken to the ocean and be shown all the waves and be asked to take what I see in the waves and turn the wave-form into a symphony, and turn it into a musical form. And I would have to translate across what I call … there’s a name for that where the brain is able to translate across the different senses, like you can smell colors, and you can hear feelings, like that.

>>Rick: Transposing or something? Yeah, right … LSD experiences.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, there’s a name for it though.

>>Rick: Yeah, transmutation … I don’t know. Anyway, we know what you’re saying.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. So I feel that that ability is key to working with these different energy frequencies; it’s one of the keys. I think the mind becomes more intelligent … the more we do it, the more intelligent we become with it.

>>Rick: So are we talking now about the idea that everyone that goes into lessons during their sleep? Is that what we’re getting onto … in dreams and so on? That we kind of go to places where we are taught things and download knowledge and stuff?

>>Dorothy: I think a lot of people have that experience, but I think a lot of people don’t, too.

>>Rick: Or even if they don’t have that experience, does it happen anyway?

>>Dorothy: That’s the thing, I think it does happen anyway and the cutting edge point there is whether people are aware that that’s happening or not happening. Because you can utilize that potential to the degree that you are cognizant of it, again, awareness being one of the forms of Source energy – you know, awareness, Being.

>>Rick: Something I’m going to throw in when we start to wrap up but before I do that, how about you, from your side, do you have things that you have been thinking you’d like to say or anything now that comes to mind that you’d like to bring into this discussion, that we haven’t?

>>Dorothy: I’ve been really impressed Rick, of the way you’ve been organizing this talk, that all the things that I’d thought about earlier, all my little templates and forms, pretty much we’ve touched on everything.

>>Rick: Well good, I don’t know if I’ve been organized.

>>Dorothy: The thing is, from my side I felt that I have this body of knowledge, and I thought to myself that in an interview like this, maybe a small fraction of the knowledge can come forward. And I was thinking of which bits and bytes and pieces would come forward, but I really, really feel deeply satisfied in the discussion that we’ve had. And I feel as if just some of the richest, most luscious, wonderful pieces of information were the ones that came out, and I appreciate that so much.

>>Rick: Good. The archangels made me do it. 🙂 So you’re still a relatively young person and you’ll probably be around for decades yet…

>>Dorothy: I hope so!

>>Rick: Or even immortal, as you’re eluding to. And I forget when you said this original shift took place, maybe almost ten years ago or something, right?

>>Dorothy: Yes.

>>Rick: And so you can look forward probably to decades to go. Do you feel like things are really moving at a fast pace for you in terms of new revelations and unfoldments and deepenings and whatever we want to call them? And you’ve kind of probably touched on a lot of the stuff that has unfolded, but do you have any sense of what the horizon looks like? Where this may be going?

>>Dorothy: Oh that’s a good question. Yeah, I feel as if it continually speeds up, as well, and I know it from a feeling level. And it’s interesting … it’s such an interesting question that you ask me because what it’s asking me to do is go into my own inner compass and ask it to identify with and describe where it’s pointed, basically.

And yes, my experience is that it would come down to – and again, I’m having this already in flashes – but times when it feels as if the entire energy field around me is just in this tumultuous, sort of flowing, like massaging, like being massaged with awareness, where there’s constant downloads coming in, constant manifestations … the slide from one universe to the next is nonstop, it’s just continuing to slide and slide and slide, like going down a slippery slope! It’s just sliding and sliding and sliding!

And the times when those experiences come in, again, it’s like the original experience I had at the mall; at first it was just for a few minutes and then it faded out. And it’s the same, I have these experiences where … and it’s interesting, we were just talking about dreaming and sleep, because at night it happens a lot! Like it can happen for hours during the night period, but even in the daily activity, that just this incredible flow of energy, just incredible, like huge, it feels like being in a tornado or powerful waves – just waves and waves and waves of continuous transformation occurring. It’s very sweet, I like it.

>>Rick: Cool.

>>Dorothy: Ya! I’ll have a few more of those. 🙂

>>Rick: How about your physical health? Pretty good?

>>Dorothy: It’s so good! It’s so good Rick.

>>Rick: You mention you and your family haven’t gotten a cold in the last six years because you’re able to …

>>Dorothy: Yeah, everybody’s astral body is good. And if sometimes a cold will come in the house and maybe one of the kids will have it for 24 hours or something, but we just sit and we clear out whatever needs to be done, and it heals up and just … it’s so nice. There’s so many times when things have cropped up.

I remember one time we were on our way to family vacation and within hours I went from feeling good to feeling like I had the flu, and I was laying in bed and I had a fever, and I was miserable. And my friend Nick came over and within about five minutes it was cleared and I just sat up in bed. I got out of bed and I was like, “Okay, it’s gone!”

>>Rick: What did Nick have to do with it?

>>Dorothy: Oh, he’s my dear friend who back in those days, when I first started out with this I was very secretive about what I was doing, and it happened after the John Douglas experience, I think, that he and I were having a conversation. He’s a monk, he’s on this long course of Purusha – they call this – man. And I was talking about what I was seeing, my perceptions, and he said, “Well you know…” – and he didn’t see anything but he knew a lot about energy healing and he could help me use my ability to perceive, to fine-tune my ability to heal.

So he was coming over to our house several times a week and we would sit for hours and hours, and he was showing me everything he knew, everything he knew. And he’d been about ten years on that path … doing that healing work, and I learned so much from him.

>>Rick: I didn’t know Nick did that?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, since 2000; he’s been doing this since about 2000.

>>Rick: Cool. And he’s not on Purusha anymore, right?

>>Dorothy: No.

>>Rick: I see him walking around town. We’re getting kind of personal here. You guys don’t know Nick but he’s a great guy.

>>Dorothy: Maybe you’ll meet him on one of these interviews!

>>Rick: Another one of those interesting people that make Fairfield an interesting place to live.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so he taught me a lot. And there were a lot of times where I was still dealing with a lot of my own “stuff,” and when my stuff got to be a little bit too much for me, he would come over and be that other eye-open for me, and was just wonderful to watch things just clearing up.

>>Rick: Cool. So let’s bring it back to a point that I brought up towards the beginning and I want to end with this point, and that is that in the larger spiritual community as a whole, and also in the TM community, there’s a tendency to be a little leery of the kind of things you’ve been talking about today because they’re considered tangential or possibly distracting to the main goal of just self-realization, waking up, knowing who you are, and you know, “getting right down to that.”

And so to a person to whom that has been the goal and the orientation, a lot of the kinds of things we’ve been discussing may seem very intricate and flowery and detailed, and it’s like, “I don’t want to deal with that! I just want to get down to the real nitty gritty, know who I am.” And so how would you kind of tie all this together and address that concern for those who feel that way?

>>Dorothy: I think it is different for everybody, and some people aren’t going to need that, they aren’t going to want it. But it has been my experience that in order to integrate through to the transformation at the physical realm, that it’s been very, very useful to have these … as Bashar calls them, permission slips. He calls them permission slips. That sometimes in order to get from where you are to where you want to be, you need something that kind of gives you permission to move over, to let go; it allows you to let go.

And so I agree Rick, that it’s not that useful to get caught in the fairy kingdom and you know, “I just want to go out and play with the fairies all day,” or something like that. One can do that, one can do that, but I think it’s really good to keep that inner compass aimed toward the highest enlightenment, the highest form of one’s own self, and then allow that other stuff to be there to just augment, to make it beautiful, to make it pleasurable, to make it enjoyable …

>>Rick: Icing on the cake.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s the icing. It’s the icing.

>>Rick: And so in your own case, do you consider yourself self-realized in the traditional sense, or cosmic-consciousness in the TM sense?

>>Dorothy: In the TM sense, I’ve had witnessing through 24/7 since the mid- or early-80s … around I think it was ’82 or ’83…

>>Rick: And explain just a little bit what that means.

>>Dorothy: Okay, so Maharishi talks about different states of consciousness that we have: waking, dreaming, sleeping, but then in addition to that there’s something called ‘transcendental consciousness,’ which is the awareness of pure consciousness, Source energy, pure Being. And so then that would be a fourth state of consciousness because physiologically it’s quite measurable different from waking, dreaming, and sleeping.

And then a fifth state of consciousness is when that experience of pure, transcendental being, accompanies waking, dreaming and sleeping , so that when one is any of those states, the quality of witnessing or pure awareness is present. And so that is also measurably a fifth state of consciousness, physiologically different from the others. And so I started having that experience around that time.

>>Rick: 80s?

>>Dorothy: Yeah.

>>Rick: And when you say Maharishi, of course he is just in a way giving expression to traditional Vedic understanding and there are actually ancient Sanskrit terms for all of these states. And you know, I have a whole file on my computer of many, many quotes from different sages and saints of maintaining awareness during sleep – pure awareness during sleep, even in the Bible, the Song of Solomon says, “I sleep though my heart waketh.”

But Maharishi kind of emphasized it as an acid test of enlightenment, that you not lose pure awareness during sleep, because that’s not something you could fake or imagine; either it’s maintained or it’s not. So when you’re fast asleep – deep sleep, no dreams – how would you describe how that is for you as compared to how it might have been 30 or 40 years ago?

>>Dorothy:  Well that’s really sweet of you to ask that question! My experience is that I am aware of this rich, warm, sweet, luscious love, basically. And I feel as if I’m bathing in this field of comfort and warmth and sweetness.

>>Rick: Even in the deepest sleep?

>>Dorothy: In the deepest; that would be the deepest.

>>Rick: Are you aware of it as it’s happening or kind of more as you come out of it?

>>Dorothy: No, no, I’m aware of it as I’m there. I am aware of it.

>>Rick: Throughout the night.

>>Dorothy: Yes, yes. And there are changes, there are a lot of deep changes that occur in the physiology. And as I mentioned before, that kind of tumultuous feeling is there because it feels so safe, I feel like I’m on mother’s lap when I’m there, and it is just so nourishing to my heart and so comforting. And that’s a time where I feel I can be bold. And sometimes, if needs be, then impulses to transform in certain ways can be brought in at that point, and I’m in a safe space, and it can happen…

>>Rick: So it’s kind of an active state. It’s not deep sleep in the sense that everything is totally shut down, like on some subtle level your senses are operative and stuff.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not to be … it’s interesting to draw this comparison to the thing you said earlier about some of your listening audience, that just want to get enlightened and they don’t want all the extra fluff. And my experience with that is that I can just bathe in that all the time during the deep sleep state, but the really exciting moments are when transformation is occurring there, you know, the really big transformations; I feel that’s some of the best and most important work I do.

The other thing that happens for me during sleep state is I often am healing people. I spend a lot of my night healing not only people, but also beings – angels sometimes come and different beings come … all sorts of situations.

>>Rick: Interesting.

>>Dorothy: And also my experience is when that’s happened, is that my dreams shifted a certain degree. Sometimes I still have dreams that are very concrete, but often I would go through hours of dreams that were very abstract, feel like abstract paintings or something, where it was just movements of colors and forms and feelings all just mixing through. And that was a dream state that I hadn’t been aware of prior to the inner wakefulness all night long.

>>Rick: In a way, as you’re speaking this came to mind … “Okay, I’ve got this, now let me do something with it.” It’s like, let’s put this to some practical use.

>>Dorothy: Ya! Yeah!

>>Rick: It’s like, “I could just marinate in the bliss, or I could be in the bliss and yet effect certain changes here.”

>>Dorothy: Right, because that experience of that sumptuous, rich comfort, love feeling, is actually an all-time reality, it’s just that the body doesn’t tend to experience it but during deep sleep. And that was one of the points I was bringing up earlier, is that I feel that integrating that into every aspect of waking awareness could be very healing for this earth, could be very healing for people, it could be good, could be very nice.

>>Rick: Good, great. Well that’s a good point to sort of end on, but before we totally end, so you are based in Fairfield (Indiana), you do healing work with people who come to your house, but you also do distance healing. People call you on Skype or the phone or something, from everywhere.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, but I also do healings that are remote healings.

>>Rick: Oh, isn’t that the same as distance healing?

>>Dorothy: No, well, if people call me on Skype or the telephone then they’re “distance,” they’re not in my house, but then I also do healings, group healings for people in … I tend to book out pretty far into the future, and sometimes people have emergencies or sometimes they need some kind of ongoing support, and so I offer these shorter, very economical packages, healing packages, where people can sign up for say, ten sessions, and they can have them starting within 24 hours, usually, of the sign up time.

And they can go for ten days in a row and they can have these healings, and there isn’t a lot of feedback with those healings.

>>Rick: And so this sounds a lot like what my friend Kristen Kirk does, whom I’ve interviewed. So let’s say you’re doing one of these group things, how many people are in the group?

>>Dorothy: It can be any number of people.

>>Rick: Five, 10, 20, 50…?

>>Dorothy: I mean, I’ve done hundreds.

>>Rick: Hundreds? And so okay, let’s say there’s a hundred people, they’re scattered all over the place and you’re doing this group thing with them, is it at a particular time of day? And what are you doing? Are you sitting in your bedroom with your eyes closed dealing with a hundred people in some subtle way?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, yeah.

>>Rick: Okay.

>>Dorothy: So, I do it always at 11 o’clock central time, on weekdays.

>>Rick: In the mornings.

>>Dorothy: Yeah.

>>Rick: And so people are asked to sort of…?

>>Dorothy: I suggest that if they’d like to sit with their eyes closed or rest at that time, that’s great, but not everybody can do that and it certainly doesn’t detract from the efficacy of the healing; it just would allow them at that time if they’re a little more quiet in themselves, they may be able to tune in to some of the changes that are being made, more clearly.

And my experience is that Divine Mother really orchestrates the whole thing. What I do is I go back to the part of myself, I find that infinite, unbounded Source field part of myself … oh I dreamed about this – saying this,  Deja vu! Anyway, and I go back into the Source field part of myself and then what happens is the masters showed me over this time that … I feel more of a surrendering takes place in me then when I’m sitting with people one-on-one, because when I’m sitting one-on-one I’m speaking and I’m telling them what’s happening, but when I’m there it’s very abstract, it’s very deep.

And what happens is there’s a flow of light that moves through my body, and it just moves out to all these … everybody who is on my list for that day. And I feel that it’s a lot like looking at the waves of the ocean, again, that some wave is up and another wave is down, and they’re all at their own individual levels, but all the sources of intelligence in creation necessary for each individual are flowing toward those individuals and giving them precisely what they need.

And I’ve found that … I’ve been doing this for some time, I can go in and I can zero in on one person and I can see details of what’s happening with them, or I can zoom back out and see the whole group, or sometimes Divine Mother will want me to put a little bit more with one person or another. But always, throughout the whole session, everybody is getting the maximum that they can receive at that time to support them and help them move through their concerns, or evolve in whatever way.

>>Rick: I get the sense that Divine Mother or these healing beings or whatever, that are involved in this process, kind of need you to be part of the team. Because I mean, the question could arise: couldn’t they just do it without you?

>>Dorothy: Yeah, that’s a good question.

>>Rick: And why do they need you? But you’re kind of serving like an umpire or some kind of intermediary or something, that helps them to do their thing.

>>Dorothy: I feel like a crystal. And I think what’s happening is that the subtle level of my body, my actual physical … because I have a physical body, the subtle level of my body, it shapes itself in a specific way to allow that movement of energy to happen and for this energy to come in like a laser and really focus in with people what they need.

And it is a good question, I mean, in the end, it’s my heartfelt desire that everybody can do this for themselves and that nobody needs me. It’s always been my goal to make myself obsolete, actually! Because I know there are so many people that need so much help and I can’t meet everybody individually, it’s not … that’s impossible. The group healings I can meet a lot more people a lot more efficiently, but then they don’t get the individual feedback.

>>Rick: Yeah, is there any kind of dilution when you’re doing a group as compared to a one-on-one?

>>Dorothy: It’s not my experience. My experience is that those minutes that I’m doing that work, the hour … I actually spend about an hour, it’s very concentrated actually, and it’s very … my experience is that in some ways it’s more concentrated, for me, because so many people … even with this interview, I feel this conversation has an element of concentration, of consciousness in it that I don’t get if I were just sitting with Rick one-on-one, because of the awareness of everybody who watches the show.

And so it definitely … what happens is the energy rises up to meet the needs of the individuals who are there.

>>Rick: Wow. So what if you had like ten-thousand people in a group? Would it fry your circuits or something?

>>Dorothy: No, no, no, because even in individual healings, there are times when someone comes to me with their specific concern and we end up doing a healing for millions of people. We’ve done millions, we’ve done billions.

>>Rick: Yeah, like all those republicans.

>>Dorothy: God bless the republicans! God bless the republicans, you gotta love ‘em.

>>Rick: Would there be any value in your going places? Like let’s say people watching this say, “Whoa, I’d love if she gave a retreat, and I’ll organize one in Sebastopol or something like that, and we’ll get a hundred people there,” would that be something that you would like to do or would you just as soon stay in Fairfield and do this remotely?

>>Dorothy: I think if it’s meant to happen, it would be good to happen, but I’m not trying to make that happen. If somebody else who’s watching this thinks, “It would be great to have this lady come” – yeah, I would be open to doing it. I mean, I do have three children and we do have kind of a busy home…

>>Rick: One’s in college, one is a 15 year-old daughter, and …

>>Dorothy: Yeah, my daughter is 13 and then I’ve got two sons in college and one of them to – dare I say online – be getting married soon.

>>Rick: Oh yeah, so there’s that stuff.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, a lot of family. And my mother and my old aunt, my mother’s sister…

>>Rick: So you don’t want to be boppin’ all over the world necessarily.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, I mean, I don’t mind going and visiting places, I think that would be really nice, and I wouldn’t mind going for a retreat for a weekend, here or there. My husband and I have even discussed the idea of maybe once a month doing something somewhere, which could be fun, and I think my kids are old enough that that would be doable.

>>Rick: So previous people I’ve interviewed have gone from relative obscurity to you know, being kind of overwhelmed, or at least, at the very least being invited to go all over the place to  Alaska, Mexico, …

>>Dorothy: Well that’s nice … see, I totally trust, Rick. I just trust that what is supposed to happen, that’s what’ll happen, and that I’ll have the resources to meet that, somehow.

>>Rick: Well they’ll provide the resources if you were invited to do that … I mean financial resources.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, but I mean time resources, that I would have the time resources. What I’m working on right now in order to reach the maximum number of people, is I’m actually creating mini-courses in energy healing to go on YouTube. I just started a YouTube station, it’s called Distance Energy Work.

>>Rick: We’ll link to it.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, you can link to it, and I thought this would be a good way to reach more people. And as said before, because my goal is to make people self-sufficient in their process, that the principle is that I would provide, through the YouTube, both intellectual understanding but also coordinate with healings for people, so that they could have the experience of the healing and then also the understanding of the mechanics of what was happening in that healing.

And by going through that step-by-step and creating courses that would target specific concerns … you know, I see patterns. People come, they have heart trouble, or they have depression, or they’d like to improve relationships, or whatever, so do courses on the various topics so people can just go in and they can zero in on their particular concern, and get the information specific for that.

>>Rick: Great. Do you have a thing on your website where people can put in their email address and be notified of things? If not, you might want to do that.

>>Dorothy: No, I don’t have that.

>>Rick: Yeah, because you know, we’re doing this now but then people a year from now might have more or less forgot this interview, and so if they’ve gotten on some kind of notification list, then when you develop new things you can let them know.

>>Dorothy: Oh yeah, that’s a good idea … thanks.

>>Rick: Yeah, yeah … okay, good. So, alrighty, so that gives us a pretty good snapshot of the Dorothy Rowe version of the universe.

>>Dorothy: The Dorothy-Rich, Godding with God.

>>Rick: Godding with God. So let me make some general wrap-up points. I’ll, as always, be creating a page on www.batgap.com for Dorothy and linking to her website, to her YouTube channel, and to whatever is relevant. And you can bounce from those links on to her sight, sign up for her email newsletter, which she is going to begin providing.

>>Dorothy: Yeah, and Twitter … I’ve opened a Twitter account and I’ve got the YouTube account, and Facebook account.

>>Rick: Or subscribe to her YouTube channel, or as Russell Brand would say, “Subscribe here! Subscribe here! Subscribe here!” I’ve been listening to some Russell Brand lately.

>>Dorothy: He’s wild.

>>Rick: Yeah, I love him. Trying to get him to do a BATGAP interview.

>>Dorothy: Oh yeah!

>>Rick: Yeah, it’s hard to reach these people. But in any case, this is, as I said in the beginning, part of an ongoing series, which will hopefully be ongoing for many years to come. And you can sign up for my email list and be notified each time  a new interview is posted by going to www.batgap.com and you’ll see the place on the menu to do that.

There’s also all kinds of things there … there’s a ‘Donate’ button, as I mentioned in the beginning, you can subscribe to the audio Podcast so that you don’t have to just sit in front of your computer … almost get about 100,000 views a month on YouTube and about 70,000 downloads of audio downloads. So almost half the people just listen to the audio, so feel free to do that. There’s a page that gives you the various options for iTunes and Android and whatnot. And just explore the menu; I don’t have to tell you all the things.

So thanks for listening or watching.

>>Dorothy: Thank you.

>>Rick: Yeah, and we’ll see you next week. Next week is going to be A.H. Almas or Hameed Ali, whom I’ve interviewed once before, and he’s written a new book which I’ve wanted to talk about with him. And we’re actually going to try something – and of course if you’re listening to this a month from now, who knows what may have happened – but we’re going to try something. We’re going to live-stream the interview on Skype, in addition to recording it and saving it, but that way people can actually send in questions during the interview.

>>Dorothy: Oh, nice.

>>Rick: And I have a fellow who’s volunteered to field all the questions, then just send me two or three of the best ones and I’ll ask them at some point. So if that works out well, we’ll start doing that as a regular thing.

>>Dorothy: Oh, nice … Rick, that’s so cool.

>>Rick: Yeah, it’ll be fun.

>>Dorothy: You’re awesome.

>>Rick: Well thank you, so are you. So, thanks a lot and we’ll see you next time.

>>Dorothy: Thank you, it’s been wonderful being with everybody. I’m so grateful, thank you.

>>Rick: Yeah, me too, this is a good one.


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