Cesar Teruel Transcript

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Cesar Teruel Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. And my guest this week is CSR Kettlewell, if I want to pronounce it correctly, although English speaking people might say Cesar Terrell or something like that, but Cesaro is from Venezuela, and that’s the way it’s pronounced in his country. So at the moment, he’s in Mexico, but I gather you travel all over the place. I mean, I listened to recordings from Russia, and you’re here, you’re here, and you’re there.

Cesar Teruel: I’m all over the place.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you, I guess we would say you were more or less a full time. I don’t know. If you define yourself as a spiritual teacher. Maybe you would. But that’s what you do full time.

Cesar Teruel: Yeah, that’s what I do full time. Yeah. Cool. And travel. I travel like 12-13 countries a year very far, three service cities. That’s amazing.

Rick Archer: Sounds like fun. Yeah. So you sent me a little bio. And here’s what you said. You said at the age of four or five, I was already feeling puzzled and confused by human behavior. At the age of 11. Due to the discovery of the identity of my real mother, I lost respect and credibility for human culture. And there arose in me an urge to understand the unreasonable behavior of humans. The search for truth started in the streets, and I went through multiple phases, drugs, alcohol, religion, shamanism, Spiritism, politics, revolution, and spirituality. I didn’t find anything there, but brief moments of tranquility. But nothing permanent and tangible that can be called the truth. So I decided to find the truth for myself by myself, but I couldn’t. So I surrendered. And there and then I realized there was nothing to understand, in an incident of clarity of this truth was such that it’s such an obvious way and interpret it intellectually in this way, a little bit of an unclear sentence. But I think people get the point, you’re the one that perceives the act of perceiving, and what is perceived are one in the same separation simply does not exist, there is nothing to understand or to attain, there is only the totality life is an indivisible unit. So that part’s very clear, so

Cesar Teruel: fast and most important.

Rick Archer: And so, you know, my first question would be, I mean, many people, myself included, even as a teenager, understood this concept, that life is an indivisible unit, and that there really is all one, even though we perceive many. But there’s a difference between understanding that intellectually, and having that be a living reality. And I think that’s an important point. Because I think a lot of times people take the intellectual understanding and mistake it for the living reality. And as such, they’re kind of selling themselves short.

Cesar Teruel: Now, even though even if you have a moment of clarity, if this becomes your own perception, automatically, because the mind is there, and then that becomes interpreted intellectually, but then we go to the interpretation, we go to the realization, because for me, awakening is this moment of nothing. You don’t even know that you don’t know. And then for me, realization is the mental movement that comes after which is natural, oh my god, there is only one thing there is no separation, there is no whatever. But then with ml open identity with that, see, and then becomes a concept. See, I believe, fact, gospel, and then and then we can stop that. The so called dramatization or whatever.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and, and obviously, we are you, I suppose you’re agreeing with me that it’s not really adequate to just have this intellectual appreciation of the oneness of life. It really has to be lived.

Cesar Teruel: Absolutely.

Rick Archer: The thing is, that has to be known experientially. Yeah,

Cesar Teruel: I call awakening. It’s a moment of clarity. I call it the cracking of the foundation of the structure of the ego, then you have a soul building, standing on that structure, and this structure cracks, but that’s not it. That’s just the beginning. That’s the moment of clarity what happened next is that the whole structure the whole psychological thought process collapses, see, and that takes a while and he may take a long time, and and he cannot replace an atoll. I don’t believe that awakening is a hunt. Kids always sweet, beautiful loving experience, you know, because you have to empty your your psychological conditioning, and for that it has to come to the surface, since the body of the mind, I want them the same thing, then you would have to experience what the mind is doing in the body. So you have to go through the whole. So to say suffering, and its opposite the whole emotional thing, positive stuff that the mind also create. And it is sensing the body as well believe is our emotions, you know, it’s a long process sometimes, and it’s not pleasant at all. So it’s a moment of clarity. And then what comes is a process of dissolution. Interesting that

Rick Archer: you should say that because just the other day, I got into a little debate on Facebook, and once on one of these comment threads, where someone had had proposed the notion that Enlightenment has nothing to do with the body mind. And, you know, and my response was, oh, it certainly does. I mean, because the whole you know, body mind, it’s lived through a body mind, I mean, maybe, maybe the absolute has nothing to do with the body mind, you know, it was there before the universe was and will always be, but, but actually, but Enlightenment means living that you know, and you live that through a body mind, and therefore the body mind has to somehow be, you know, adjusted so that it can be lived.

Cesar Teruel: See, there is a phenomenon going on for centuries about this. Carry on, we carry on doing this division between absolute and relative. And then we say, well, before the manifestation came into existence, the manifestation was ever present, it was just not manifested.

Rick Archer: It was like a tree is in the seed, you know? Exactly. And then what was the question? Oh, just about, you know, the body mind being an instrument through which this is lived. Yeah.

Cesar Teruel: But if you’re from this point of view, the only thing that the absolute has is the relative see it, the only thing that awareness, I’m using the vocabulary that people use is I don’t like to use it that too much. The only thing that the woman has is what awareness is aware of, is the only thing that he has to experience. So it is all it’s all. Perception. That’s all what you got, you know, sense perception phenomenon. That’s an emphasis there.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And so just for, you know, when you so you’ve, you’ve covered so far, that, you know, there may be an initial glimpse or kind of a crack in the cosmic egg, so to speak, and then over time, and it can, it could be a difficult process, one grows into a more mature permanent realization of that. So let’s, I’ll throw a couple of questions at you. One would be what is the nature of that mature permanent realization? In other words, when it’s being lived? What is the quality of one’s day to day experience? And not? And you can answer that one first. But then number two, maybe we can get into discussing how one can facilitate this, you know, do you just go around living your life as you always have? Or is it something you can do to help bring it about?

Cesar Teruel: See, as you said, there is a moment of clarity, and there is an extraordinary phenomenon that happens later, when apparently, our Enlightenment gets lost, right, right. And things really goes bananas, because normally the most possible for you have more dreams, now before you can sleep, you can dress, he comes to company with a whole thought to experiences in the body. And there is an idea that you can control that, that you can accelerate the process that you can the accelerated process that you can, and then you realize I can’t do anything, because in the first time I didn’t do anything they i that is talking now, claiming that God if it was not present, this is yours again, mine and what I mean mine is idea of separate beingness and their maturity comes when you understand that and then you stop, you simply stop and you go through whatever that whatever you have to go through. And then you start settling. In that condition, I call it condition you start somehow becoming firmly established in that condition. And then you start living. See within that condition, when whatever happens is not perceived as separate from you, if you you are the very thing that you are thinking, feeling, sensing, perceiving, etc, etc, etc. And, and this starts grounding you into that condition that knowing that forget is nothing that you can do. There was never a you that was doing anything ever.

Rick Archer: What I observe for what it’s worth, is that for some people, it’s like you say they, you know, they’re just going along, minding their own business and then all of a sudden, it’s as if awakening grabs them by the scruff of the neck and just starts dragging them along kicking and screaming and they’re not doing anything to make it happen. It’s just happening and they kind of learned to deal with it as best they can. But other people and maybe even the majority of people, this doesn’t just happen automatically. And therefore they find it helpful to engage in some sort of practice or some, you know, some meditation something or other, which actually does tend to get something going you know, get the get the fire cooking for them.

Cesar Teruel: Even if there is an idea that I am practicing and making an effort or trying to understand realize something that’s going also on automatic pilot, or auto pilot, I don’t know how to say.

Rick Archer: So as you’re saying, even if, even though it may appear that I’m doing it, in reality, you’re not doing it, it’s just kind of part of a larger

Cesar Teruel: process, the one that believes is doing is that it’s a belief and it’s part of the perience. See, it’s part of the of the project. And it’s part of the of the Scene, It’s an old phenomenon that oneself is aware of, or conscious of. So even the upper, even in the upper in Air Force, there is no air for a tone. Yeah, I see what you mean, sometimes sometimes I describe life of a holistic system, there is no there’s no effort or anywhere, safe coming from anyone.

Rick Archer: Right? It’s funny, you should mention that because just this morning, I saw this other little conversation on Facebook, and I posted a couple things. And you know, the thing I posted was this verse from the Gita which says, The wise the wise should not delude the ignorant by speaking of the uninvolved nature of the self, establishing being, they should engage in all actions and encourage others to do the same. But then the very next verse is, you are not the doer, it’s the good, its nature is doing it. And if you you know, if you think that you are the one who’s actually doing it, you’re, you’re deluded. So on the one hand, what you say is, you know, it’s all happening automatically, we’re not really doing it, but on the other hand, that’s not necessarily an instruction, you know, you see some some teachers sitting up in front of a room and describing that state, and it can be confusing for people because they feel like oh, well, there’s nothing I can do.

Cesar Teruel: The absence of effort doesn’t imply necessarily the, the absence of activity, activity happens effortlessly, and you won’t be able, even he was seated, the body fat to the heart is beating, the head is growing the yesterday’s happening blocked, the circulating immune system is working, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, life is happening, but it’s but there is no decide intention, effort and even knowledge in the in this process is simply it is simply going on. So, I normally don’t like to make description of the condition, I’m just I keep on repeating that whatever you proceed is yourself there is nothing that you perceive through the sensor or even what you think or any level of thought and the sense perception, materiality, whatever is not separate from you, you are the very thing that you’re sensing you know, and but instructions are such, it’s impossible to be given, because, because every every form, sir potentiality and that possibility is already there, the programming is already there. So, we cannot control it, we cannot change it, we can do nothing, you have to let it be, and we cannot even let it be because it is now before before I give permission to a to happen, it’s already happening. I cannot even say I accept things as they are. Because when I accepted, the very thing that X I’m accepting, maybe it’s not longer there is gone. Because life is that is movement. So beginning less and less movement, and it’s impossible to encapsulate time live in timeless space, in a form of an abstraction and say this is it because when I say this is it is no longer there, in move it change. So what is left?

Rick Archer: There’s, there’s a principle in physics called the law of least effort, if we take a ball and throw the ball, you know, there are many different paths the ball could take, but what the path it does take is the actually the most efficient path it could possibly take, you know, it takes the path of least effort. And it’s kinda like that with now Now, obviously, when you when you observe human behavior, there seems to be a great range of observe, you know, adherence to that law. Some people, you know, they do a lot more than they need to and accomplish very little not they’re not taking the path of least effort. Others seem to flow smoothly through life. And by doing very, they may, you know, with very little effort, they may accomplish a lot.

Cesar Teruel: Well, I don’t know about accomplishment because if you’re moving it’s like it’s a constant movement, nothing can be accomplished, nothing can be attained, no goal can be achieved, because it goes on moving, you left behind and achievement and the goal so whatever it is, is already memory for the past is really gone. And life goes on and on and on. So such thing as achievements, and goals and attainment. In reality, it have an excuse for not another idea. Sure. But

Rick Archer: like as you move through the world, for instance, you’ve been to I don’t know how many countries this year and you travel all over. So in a way those could be You know, called accomplishments or something, I did this, I did this, I did this. But I imagine that your experience is that it’s very kind of effortless flow, even when you’re missing planes and planes are canceled. And you’re sitting in the airport, that kind of stuff. There’s a sort of a natural acceptance of what is right. Yes.

Cesar Teruel: Yeah, we got was he actually, it’s, it’s amazing that you thought to the point because it just happened on the way to, from from Ireland to Costa Rica. And then from Costa Rica to Mexico, I was not aware that I need a visa to go in transit from us, because now us, the border of us is at the airport of departure for us is already in the country. So you cross migration from another country. And I say, Oh, my God, what am I doing, I cannot charge again, the ticket for the organizers or whatever. So you, you go through whatever you have to go through, but somehow there is a sense of, there can be some kind of upper in agitation and upper and a stress and, and looking here and there. And other than that, but in reality, it’s absolute tranquility, because it’s not there is no intelligence, there is no stress, there is a there is intensity, in the way of doing things, but there is my stress is a complete different things stress and intensity. Now there is no worry of occupation. So there is only occupation, you are not preoccupied, you’re occupied. Right? Yeah. That’s the thing that many people don’t understand and awakening give you absolutely nothing is your takes everything away from you, and you carry on living an ordinary human existence, but in a complete sense of no conflict, therefore, there is no suffering.

Rick Archer: Right. In other words, it takes away a lot of unnecessary stuff, you know, like the average person, it’s in a situation like that traveling and visa problems and all they might be just oh my God, when we got to do tearing my hair out, you know, just feeling very frustrated and upset. Whereas none of that contributes to any solutions.

Cesar Teruel: You might be in a cab that is facing two dogs. And the cat doing the same thing. Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? See, both of the cat is not distressed or waterproof, goodbye, the guy they got is occupied, say trying to figure out what to do. And that moment, and then there is a tremendous amount of energy and vitality in that in that movement. And it is exactly the same thing. Because the natural state of human being is destruction. See, and when you are distracted, then you’re proceeding more than what is there. And then this is extraordinarily movement of the mind and the body, which is so effortless, spontaneous and so dynamic and so alive now is it like oh my god, you can say, Oh, my God, what am I gonna do, but this is a this is not a preoccupation, this is already a thought process. That is, which is an attempt to find out if there is a way out if there is no way out what to do, but there is a way out, then you walk through it.

Rick Archer: So in your own case, then you know, you were searching, doing all these different things, drugs and alcohol and shamanism and politics and whatnot. But then you finally had a kind of a breakthrough, as I understand it, right? Can you describe that a little bit more?

Cesar Teruel: Well, I had this breakthrough, all the way through, I feel like that this awake Awakening was all the time present. But there was no understanding there was a fancy name called Enlightenment and awakening for that particular condition. The difference between now and then is that before there was a tremendous amount of conflict with the cultures, he was there, with the human system, the human belief system. And now there’s no coffee whatsoever, because there is an understanding that is part of the story. And it’s not separate from JR it is false for you see, even the the terrible madness happening nowadays. So within God sees you to so I remember, for example, I used I used to lock you up in an island in the Caribbean Sea in Venezuela Margarita and one of the most beautiful moments that I experienced there was with my father and my father has more yet. And I remember this recording experiences. I love to spend alone, I was never afraid or concerned or being alone, I was enjoying all the time being alone since I’m a child. And there were moments when I wasn’t on on the flying bridge of the yard and the wind will blow and somehow any thought process will stop like when you feel the sound of the wind in your ears and you hear that everything will disappear. And now automatically there was the disappearance of the eye. And again, it’s like you are a non physical you are yes, be careful because I’m not saying that you are done only that there is kind of non physical space that is capable to perceive or to be aware of and everything that is perceived is contained within the perceiver itself somehow still there is a perceiving and accuracy but there is no idea that there is separation or even the idea of unity that doesn’t exist. So I have this recording experience. So then I went into surfing. And I started surfing I used to spend a lot of time by the beach and I used to remember this experience closing my eyes. And I could see the redness and facing the sun, I could see the redness of the block. I moved my eyes and I could see how the dead will move. And I say hold on a second. See if I can see the dirt. I can see the eye so Who the hell is seeing the I feel that is something there but there wasn’t a recognition that that is also myself. There was some so like something is there seems to me, because it seemed there was an idea for me. So for that being and I didn’t know that I was also that see that? What is in front and behind it one of the same thing. So I went through all these processes in my life, I remember in another song experience, and after that experience, I was shot 14 times somebody charged. Me limiter. Your shot with a gun. Yeah. Not one of them. No bullet touch me. You know, that’s all.

Rick Archer: They fired 14 times. But they didn’t hit you. Oh, yeah. But on the

Cesar Teruel: way Yeah, it was like four o’clock in the morning, I was coming from Dallas Fort Worth from a training, I was working for American Airlines. And we used to go to Dallas Fort Worth for the training. And then on the way back, the shuttle didn’t pick me up I was just right by the sea. And there was a funny guys by the sea in the shuttle didn’t pick me up and have to go to the office to surrender some papers, I was working in security and how to not take care of that. And then say when I have to walk and I say oh my god, these guys are there. And this area was not that safe. And then on the way I saw the moon is a huge moon on the on the on the sky. And it’s like a rainbow around the moon. And the impact of that experience automatically stopped my mind and there you are no mind. And even basically, the body consciousness was basically gone. And again. So this was happening all the way through, you know, in India was the most powerful one, because there was no consciousness of the body. Even when I was still with my eyes open. I couldn’t sense the body, I couldn’t move it. Whatever I believe was made the severe See, somehow there was some kind of existence versus existence was present. But as what that’s all there is. So this is how it did happen. But of course, 1000s of years of conditioning and identification, because the ego is not yours, mine is yours, the ego is yours there. And mine is not your mind, it’s yours Collective is just a collective thought psychological sub process within human consciousness, gave some coming back, it keeps on coming back keeps on coming back for it takes a while to resolve all that identity or to for this quality of thought process to start because thought processes thought process. And a thought process is part of form. It’s part of evolutionary movement within human beings, when at some point human beings started thinking. And then thinking was prior to this the appearance of the store of the thinker. So the thinker is a byproduct of thinking came up. And then since then, the thought process, it was no longer only practical, also, it became psychological. So the opinion of a psychological entity took place the the person came into existence. And then it’s a process is one of the same purposes. One is practical, and another one is psychological. But if makes up this is why it’s so difficult to discriminate discriminate between one and the other. And this is where many people fail or have a travel, especially when they do the inquiry. Because the inquiry is done by me see is not an inquiry about me, which is what really this was the need. And then that’s the thing. So this is this is what takes time. And everybody struggles and as partners again to everybody has to struggle. See there is no, there is no perfect seeker or anything like that. For me awakening is an evolutionary process is nobody’s in charge of that movement.

Rick Archer: So, you know, most people in the world. I mean, well, actually they’ve done polls, like the Gallup organization has done polls, and a lot of people claim to have had some kind of spiritual experience spontaneously are some sort of breakthrough or, you know, something or other. But for them, I’d say for the most part, most of the people in the world are pretty locked in and not having this kind of experience spontaneously. Then there are some people like yourself, who, you know, even from a very young age, seemed to have these breakthroughs or glimpses or realizations, and they just come unbidden, automatically and, you know, periodically, and, you know, and then others I mean, like Eckhart Tolle, for instance, or Byron Katie, you know, they hadn’t had very much of that sort of thing going on. But then all of a sudden, they had this awakening this realization, and it was pretty much irreversible. You know, after that there was it took a while to get used to it, but once the awakening took place, that was it, they were they were different persons so to speak. So there seems to be this whole kind of different. There’s this range of types of people. And, you know, the the people have, you know, kind of a spontaneous awakening that’s irreversible are pretty rare, you know, to people who like yourself have periodic realizations, which go away, again, are more common. And I’d say the people who have nothing whatsoever, you know, are the most common, there are billions of them in the world. So go ahead, I think you’re wanting to respond to what I’ve said so far.

Cesar Teruel: The thing is that, even if even if you fell back, they believe that you’re a separate entity serious irreversible, because on the foundation of this psychological structure tracks, there is no way back. Here, sometimes I call it, the blown COVID of the lead of the Pandora Box. See, it is blown up, is torn into pieces, okay? It gets reused to us, as you cannot put it back, there’s no back may go out of identification with whatever whatever it may be. But there is no way back. And it doesn’t matter if it is who it is this even if you’re a Supra by campaign, everybody has to go through a process of the solution. And this process of the solution for Sufi has to have time because implies and unplug or the solution of neurological network. If it happens once for all, okay, the body simply would not take it to be periodically is the all the neurological network created by our psychological subclasses collapses. And in some blog, they worry they worry one, thank you. This is why, for me, this is more a physical phenomenon than experiential, this is more because it is experiencing the body’s awakening is experienced in the body.

Rick Archer: Yeah, no, I agree with that we were talking about that earlier in the interview. Any experience we have, if I look at my thumb, you know, there’s something going on in the brain that’s, that’s enabling that experience to take place. And certainly, the state of Enlightenment or realization, which is, you know, a much more radical shift in one’s experience of life than merely looking at one some must require our correlate with a quite a radical transformation in the way the body functions, the way the brain functions and so on. And as you say, that’s not going to just happen overnight, it’s not going to it’s going to it could take quite some time for those adjustments and changes to take place,

Cesar Teruel: I’m going to have clarity, this could be breakthrough, whatever it takes no time is just bang, fear. You don’t even know what’s going on. So it takes a while to understand what’s going on. And it takes a while to become famous service in that condition. But definitely as you say, it takes a while and then the voltage in the hallway Shay because I don’t believe that the whole memory is in the drain this memory in the whole body and the whole molecular structure of the body, there is memory. So it will be naive to speak the stances 1000s of years of psychological conditioning will disappear. Now all this global awakening, JC is very nice. Okay, and it is happening. But this will take a while, you know, for for seven billions of human beings to you know, to get rid of all that stuff. So this is something that is just beginning to happen. Yeah. Oh, my God, it seems to me, that is happening more and more is somehow transmitted genetically easy is the is in your DNA, the possibility the potentiality of awaken in a certain way where it’s somehow it’s like the body is saying, okay, sorry, I have to get rid of you are not saying I have to get rid of you, if not us getting rid of anything is you who is getting trade off, you know, or ideal for you this is what is really happening.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and I don’t know if the whole 7 billion of the world’s population is ever gonna get it all at once. But there does seem to be something in the collective consciousness that’s causing more of a popcorn effect where more and more people are waking up.

Cesar Teruel: Now we’re not talking about the brain, the brain, the brains are some new set of neurons that they call mirror neurons see, and then you you observe, you learn you repeat perfection eight, and then you trust me by your own behavior. Same with a sense of separation produces an impact. See, the absence of the sense of separation also produces an impact. So it’s kind of a movement, you know, that is happening, and it will take some time is what I’m saying. I mean, this is gonna take us, I don’t know, maybe 100 years or something like that. Who knows? If they I feel that there is a moment of reconciliation, someone or humanity have to put in a table all what they take technologically scientifically, all the knowledge that they have put in at a table and see what it takes and what it goes. See what is really functional and organic and harmonious and what is not. And then so this is just the beginning. We’re just beginning to see the lights. Nobody’s going to happen in the future.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And are you making it good? point here, which is that this whole spirituality stuff that we talked about actually has a practical significance in terms of the fate of humanity in terms of our technologies, our environment, our economy, all the different practical things that we see on the news. And of course, usually when you watch it on the news, there’s no mention of spirituality or consciousness. But that’s the kind of underlying influence that’s probably more the most influential in terms of where all this is going.

Cesar Teruel: Elvis is going out on this is on the way out. Yeah. All this culture as we know it, this society of you know, this just, we can begin to say goodbye to that. It’s a phenomenon that I am having, I would say good luck to perceive is that traveling so much. And I mean, the good luck to experience large amount of people in a thoughtful sample in Moscow, 500 people or 600, people for 500, in cave, three 400, and so on, in Ukraine, and I found that the jam the youngsters, often want to join this map culture, since the new generation doesn’t want to go in and the organization wants to go out. See, and I found this question, Cesar is nice to talk to you. Because we were not completely sure who was the one who was mad. We are the society. And we don’t want to join that. We don’t want to be part of that. But the question is what to do, we don’t know what to do, because, and I say, well, these are questions assuring us to anyone, especially me your last question to anyone what to do, stay with you, your I don’t know. And then something will kick in. And it will manifest itself and it will be so obvious and so clear, that this is what has to be done. But because it is different. And because there is no chance that we can see how it’s going to be the consequences of that because we are used to function in the security system that I do this because I know if I do this, I get that I know if I do this, I will avoid. But these were functioning when they when all that disappears, when the preconceived idea disappears, it’s an action that you don’t know how we’re going to be. Right. And then we a little bit of a fail to make a step forward. I said, just go ahead and use don’t question you don’t doubt yourself. But definitely all what we perceive as society or culture, or religion, or religion, or political economy, this is just from the way out, see, and we have the solution, because all that the society that we live in is based upon the sense of individuality see, we have something called a state the state is an individual, you will have something called a religion is also an individual, all that imaginary separate individual cells, you know, operating see apparently independently from the other and in control of the other except xx, xx, say, Chief and goodbye to this.

Rick Archer: So there’s quite a few teachers who talk about, you know, the importance of not knowing and of uncertainty. And so that’s kind of the point you’re making, I guess, that if, if we are adamantly sure of why things are the way things should be, and so on, then there’s a rigidity in that and better to not insist that things happen in a particular way not not be absolutely certain of our correctness or rightness, and then we can be more flexible to accept the changes that are that are coming along,

Cesar Teruel: because the way we function now, it’s all a controlling mechanism, it is all a form of control, it is all based on the past condition, my behavior is what controls the behavior of the body, this body goes to the right or to the left the pop or to the church or to the ashram or to the beach, or to whatever your is conditioned by experiences, because I want more of that. And now I develop a system, see to get more of that or to avoid, see any of that. And then I develop my whole technique, my whole technology, my whole system that I believe if I do this, I get that if I don’t do this, I don’t get out or or avoid that. So, this is all a form of control is yours, trying to repeat again and again and again to the same experiences because these are experiences what you perceive now enters into memory. And this is experience. Sometimes I like to make this distinction between experiences. And perception, one seems to perceive Another thing is to experience to perceive is there is no experiences because it is an experience. So this only sense perception is not the patient. Maybe there is a we refer to the experience, you will refer to the object, but we don’t define the object. We don’t give identity to the object and we don’t give a value to the object. And that’s kind of a pure kind of thing. And my exploit I’m experiencing is my mind is like if I’m in a socket and my when my team wins the World Cup and I We will, because a little ball is just crossing an arm with a net, it is what I’m experiencing really is, myself as a separate entity, what I’m experiencing is the experience. And that is also applied to meditation and spirituality when people are meditating and feel all different. This is your own psychological conditioning.

Rick Archer: So you if we try to extract a practical point from all this, are you saying that there’s that people overlay too much interpretation on simple events, like taking the soccer match as an example, you know, these, everybody goes crazy if their team wins, and they riot and they do all these things all about a little ball going through a net. So are you saying that if we, but that would kind of imply I remember the first time I’ve been meditating a few months, and some people took me to a football game, and I regular American football, and I just kind of everybody was cheering and whooping, I was just kind of sitting there watching these little guys run around on the field, and it didn’t do much for me. And afterwards, everybody criticized me for being dispassionate. You know, like they I’d ruin their experience by sitting there like a lump on the bench. So are you but it almost sounds like you’re advocating that like we don’t, we shouldn’t overlay all this interpretation on top of super simple events. But if we all do that, when we become a rather bland society,

Cesar Teruel: opponent, it’s not a planned society. It’s a peaceful society, a tranquil society is a harmonious society. The positive emotions and the negative emotions they are one and the same. They are both hallucinated. They’re both a byproduct of a psychological thought process. But there is something there, which I like to call feeling, which is kind of a neutral. For me, the feeling people call it love. And I like to call it that way. Because it’s subject to multiple interpretations, it’s like, we have positive or negative, that means separation. But when positive or negative experiences is separable, then you have love when the good guys and the bad guys together, see as one society or one family, whatever you like to call it, this is love and love is nothing but harmony and peace and equanimity and tranquility and the absence of conflict and suffering. That’s all it is not a hunky dory romantic divine experience all these years decorated by polity and reeling them

Rick Archer: in, I’m sorry, go ahead, lend

Cesar Teruel: Samadhi, sometimes my English is do not become a flat, human beings see a cold dry on the country and you become more sensitive, because you perceive much more, actually, I found that affection for you to be for you to know what affection is you need to be affected. So I completely disagree with this, the state of non affection have not been affected. So I can not have a real relationship with you, I can have a real communication with you. If I don’t feel you fully ask myself, see if you don’t affect me. So our relationship is superficial, because I don’t really know what is going on there. What I what I am feeling is your interpretation of what is going on there. So I need to be juicy to fill you completely off my phone so we can have a real connection or relationship or communication. Okay,

Rick Archer: so I guess what you’re saying is that, ideally, if one is not covered, if there’s not a huge screen of of interpretations, and judgments and opinions, and so on and so forth, that which tend to cloud or block one’s appreciation of things, then there’s more of an innocent openness, and one will be more actually deeply attuned to and appreciative of the people they encounter and, you know, more sensitive. But at the same time, I think what you’re saying is that, that added sensitivity won’t necessarily make them you know, you think of sensitivity and you may think the word vulnerability, you know, that if a person is sensitive, then they’re going to be thrown about by everything that happens. But I mean, speaking of the Gita, again, there are these verses about, you know, not being in about being in a state where you you don’t overly rejoice on gaining what is good nor overly grieve on on having, you know, experiencing what is bad there’s an equanimity that develops a balance and success and failure.

Cesar Teruel: You can you can you can have a tremendous amount of So depression, or anger or whatever it is, and yet to be in a complete state of quietness and peacefulness and harmony, because you are in harmony even with the disharmony, not in conflict even with with the conflict that is happening with you You. So this is a very, in a condition that is impossible to describe, you have to you have to it has to become your own your own perception.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And it’s kind of paradoxical. I mean, it might be confusing for people to hear it because it sounds like you’re talking about two opposite things happening at the same time.

Cesar Teruel: And I need to feel, if I get rid of that, I need to feel that see all my anger, all my jealousy, all my pride, all my fears, all my nonsense. So you have to come to the surface, and you have to be completely, I have to be perfect fully for all that stuff. So it can go out, going out and see if this liberation is from that.

Rick Archer: So getting back to your own case, you know, we were talking about how you were having these spontaneous experiences of oneness or clarity, even from a young age. And they were but they were intermittent, they came and went, and then did you eventually get to a point where they, it was pretty much a constant, it wasn’t coming and going anymore. And if and prop Pro, and in the process of getting to that point was there, as you said, as you were just saying, a kind of a processing or a purging of all kinds of emotional stuff. But that that process eventually completed itself. And you got to the point where there wasn’t much smoke anymore, it was it was just a clarity that was consistent.

Cesar Teruel: The thing is that you got into the map, if you’re if your conditioning goes on showing up to become established condition doesn’t imply that the condition is fully gone through implies the absence of sense of separation is a conditioning because you are also the conditioning. But actually there is nothing about conditioning. Technologically, scientifically, biologically and psychologically. goes away if it’s if it’s psychologically, and when they psychologically goes away, that technologically and scientifically also changes. It gets modified, because it’s not longer manipulated, or use by the ego. Right? But yes, at some point, that’s thoughts. Stop this, the sense of separation is what was disappears for you to go in and out of identification. But you don’t go in and out of awareness or in and out of awakening, or in and out of this space. So they actually see you go in and out of identification. That’s all this is what appears and disappears, is the mean.

Rick Archer: Okay, so let’s clarify this point. So are you saying that the sense that identification going in and out of identification is always going to happen all your life? But or no, you’re not saying that?

Cesar Teruel: No, this was stopped. See. But even if there is conditioning, me separate from the conditioning, there is no me experiencing the conditioning, see, the knee disappears completely. Even the conditioning goes on showing up, what happened is that the conditioning loses the power to control the behavior of the body. See, I can be angry with you, okay. And then in my mind, I can see how I go to the kitchen, grab a knife, and start stabbing you. But that never happens, that this stays here. See, it’s like you is like you press the clutch like you are driving a BMW, okay, that has six gears, so to speak. And then you are on the sixth gear drive in a 700 kilometres per hour, right. But eventually the cloth is pressed. See, and what happens with that car, nothing is started slowing down, right? Because the engine is no longer driving it, sadly, is no longer the car is not longer conditioned by the gear or the mechanism that is functioning the car in the car. And it doesn’t matter what you do. It doesn’t move.

Rick Archer: Okay. So are you saying then that a very deeply conditioned person, a deeply identified person might actually go to the kitchen and get the knife and stab, whereas a less conditioned person might have the thought of doing that, but not do the action. And Couldn’t we just take it another step and say that it even less conditioned person wouldn’t even have the thought that the tendency to have such thoughts would have been eliminated.

Cesar Teruel: That’s the type of stuff. And then you see, it is yours that stays here. And here it gets the salt. See, sometimes I say that the clarity, going back to the moment of clarity, you switch on usage of the fan,

Rick Archer: click. That’s it. And it still spins for a while.

Cesar Teruel: And then you keep on seeing the spinning drive. But it does not get operate becomes inoperable, you can have a lot of madness, you can have all sorts of desires, mental projections, all that and it’s perfectly right. Because it has to happen. You have to see all that in order to get rid of that see that can only get the soul by expressing itself by coming to the surface now by coming to the light so to speak.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but it’s playing itself out. You’re not creating new stuff.

Cesar Teruel: So this call is Obviously, the condition in that condition is that there’s no more intent to control it, to manipulate it to get rid of it, because the one that is separate from the one that is supposed to be experiencing it, as a separate entity is not longer there is the me appears and then the rest are met, melting down with a this goes away, takes away all the rest. And they can suffer as much as you want, you can be sad as much as you want the dress as much as is no longer a problem, because there is no one there that can possibly have a problem with body sense.

Rick Archer: The but then, of course, you have people saying, hey, you know, I know I’m acting like a complete jerk. But that’s not me. Because there is no me it’s just conditioning playing out, you know, I kind of like, you know, I don’t totally accept that line of alibi, you know, see what happens

Cesar Teruel: to all et Neo Advaita, whatever, whatever it does. Everything just happens is your justification of our nonsense. Right? Right. thing just happens means that what you sense or perceive this, what is happening, right here, what happens here is also happening, but it’s not really happening because his use of mental projection. So what do you think is not what is happening? See what the thing is never what is happening is what is not happening actually see, and they wonder things is not happening? Neither is your fault. So one idea that is happening, that it is there, which is to me, which is

Rick Archer: Yeah, I guess what I’m saying is that, you know, we don’t get absolved from the consequences of our behavior, even if our behavior is just a playing out of latent tendencies. Once the, you know, the me has been dissolved. There’s a there’s a, I don’t know, if you remember the band, the band, it was a great musical group in the United States, or actually, from Canada. And there’s a song called that, you know, I’m a thief and I dig it. And the line is temptation weights behind that door, what do you want to go and open it for, and the guy says, because I’m a thief, and I dig it. But, you know, but he’ll end up going to jail because that’s the consequence of such behavior II and and, you know, having realized the self or the non self or whatever is no excuse, we still have to face the consequences of our actions,

Cesar Teruel: sometimes, is to be necessary, that the tendency has to stress itself and becomes an action so you can see it. See, sometimes you have to go through whatever you have to go through to see it. Because whether whether you see what is happening, it defaults it, it also solved the issue feed after when you are having dinner, you did something in the morning, you’re having dinner, I said, what was that? That was absolutely ridiculous. That is yours minus stuff. And it works in the same way. So it’s some time to do whatever you have to do, to recognize what you’re doing is conditioned by your psychological thought process.

Rick Archer: I like that point. And, and so maybe what you’re saying is that ordinarily, persons you know, like Jesus said, when they’re nailing into the cross, forgive them father, they know not what they do. It’s like people act in a blind kind of way, where they just kind of complete repeating and reinforcing the same behaviors. But what you’re saying is after a certain level of realization, these behaviors may come up, but they come up more as a as a process of recognizing them and D fusing them or dissolving the tendency for them to come up in the future.

Cesar Teruel: Yes, yes, this is the end of the so called destiny, because destiny is not nothing but while you are bound to do so, your preconceived ideas, your belief, you will carry on going on there, whether it’s to the pop or ashram, basically, there is something there that you can get is going to be full or complete or whole, right. So that is excellent. When that disappears, there is no more Destiny. Your your life is a random movement. See, every second is a quantum leap. I believe this is what quantum mechanics is trying to explain if there is a change that is produced by the mattresses of the observer or observation, when there is no identification with yourself, then you step out of your limited perception, which is your perspective, right? And then you start moving in the indirection. So perceiving things that you never imagined, so you can see the rest of the potentiality, so to speak, so we are just perceiving only a fraction just an infinitesimal part of the totality of what is this is just a perspective. And this perspective, is your upbringing, which is your culture, your tradition, your religion, your politics, your economy, profit identity with a that’s me. When the identity with that perspective disappears. Then you You start perceiving more of what is there? So you can you move to the rest of the infinite amount of possibilities that already exist. See you live he comes. And never knowing where are you going? Why do you do what you’re doing? See? And you never know. I mean, this is the meaning of not knowing. People who speak about the truth is these excuses that say, my fancy, the truth is that nobody knows. No, because even to know you need to the knower and the known and that often exists.

Rick Archer: It’s very nice. I like what you’re saying. I’m kind of fond of astronomy, I like looking at pictures of galaxies and clusters of galaxies and all that because you get a sense of how vast the intelligence of the universe is and how what a teeny tiny little expression of it we are even our even our our whole solar system is like nothing SPECT you know, much what to say of a particular individual. And yet most people are completely locked into this is who I am this individual. Whereas really, you are that cosmic intelligence just expressing itself as an individual, but you know,

Cesar Teruel: the only way I can conceive the world i, if it means totality, the whole existence, whether you like to call it absolute and relative manifestation of manifested awareness, and they contain the container that the whole thing, okay, that’s the only way I can conceive the War I because it’s this body is made out of 100 trillion cells, okay. 20s made the perfect no wave, you see that there is no chance in hell that blue eyes will do or does me see. And then it’s like, it’s like, we pretend to divide the totality into pieces, and then pick one of those, I’m gonna say, Well, this is me. On Tata yoga says, Guys, the board is nothing but a bacteria that is capable to think the thought this board is just nothing but animated, cosmic does is you compare the size of this body with the sun, and you can even perceive it. So while you carry on making a status about people and Alexander the Great and the holy stuff, you know?

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, you know, when you think of the site, I think of how long it takes you to fly to Russia, you know, how long it takes to go around this little planet. And yet Voyager One, which we fight we put up in spades 30 years ago, and is traveling 17 kilometers a second, is just now leaving our solar system, you know, and our solar system is nothing compared to the, you know, the size it takes, you know, what I’m saying? I mean, that the universe is vast. And when we’re kind of locked, it’s like the whole ocean has gotten squeezed into a drop, when we regard ourselves merely as an individual.

Cesar Teruel: That’s what ego is, ego is construction. And then we are trapped. Somehow, by assumption, something’s going on here. See, and this holds that construction, which is that sense of separation or that ego, because ego is not something it was just, it’s just not even there, it’s just an idea that separate being that half an autonomous independent exists, and that solace, is that simple.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but it’s interesting, isn’t it, because there is a natural tendency toward contraction. I mean, that’s every, you know, everyone is, I mean, the whole unit, the whole universe is, is a phenomenon of, of the unbounded contracting into specific points, you know, and it’s, I’m sorry, go ahead.

Cesar Teruel: Station is the result of the contraction of the end of the the cooling expand more, because it couldn’t go further than that, just in a way to put it put it in a way. This is metaphorical. It’s like the totality wants it to be more but couldn’t be more than what it is. See, and then he couldn’t expand anymore. See, I say, Well, how can I want more, but I can’t because I am older is right. And they say I cannot expand myself, hold on a second, but I can contract myself.

Rick Archer: I am one may become many.

Cesar Teruel: Exactly. And then and there is I love margin explanations about that, if you have the difference between a normal class and or you call this class and you cannot break that you can shoot and it doesn’t break,

Rick Archer: like bulletproof glass or our Pyrex or whatever it’s called or

Cesar Teruel: if you see a class made out of normal class and you’ll see a class made out of this indestructible class, you know, see the difference. See, the different ways the molecular structure change, see, see was contracted C was modified. And you see what is happening. The whole existence is contracting and expanding and modifying, see and doing whatever it wants is what is contained already within itself. You changing the potentialities and transforming and that’s all it’s like a, like an compulsive fashion. We’ll be fine.

Rick Archer: But you know, it’s interesting because what you’re saying a minute ago, the totality wants to grow, and yet it realizes I am totality, what more can I do? Okay, I’ll contract. But the, the interesting thing is that by going through that process of contraction, and then the contracted bits, kind of realizing, coming back to realize their totality, then then we have what they call Brahman, you know, which is something more than the sum of its parts, which is something more than, than just totality, or contraction, but it’s actually they think there’s a totality being becoming having become a living reality through contraction.

Cesar Teruel: Yes, becomes manifested. So you can you can you can be, perceive objectively see,

Rick Archer: yeah, it’s the totality, breathing, speaking, you know, experiencing as totality

Cesar Teruel: Exactly. Because sometimes I say, there is no dog barking in the dog, there is no birds singing in the bird, there is no person speaking in a human body, see, there is what is happening here is a US energy passing through the vocal cords, by waking them up producing a sound and in reality has not been in whatsoever. But there is an idea that there is somebody talking, but there is nobody that is used energy. Actually, there is nothing more energy.

Rick Archer: It’s interesting, you know, sometimes when I hear talk like this, I think, well, it’s just talker, what’s it going to do for people, but I really, you know, you’re convincing me otherwise at the moment, because I really feel like attuning your thinking to this level of understanding, like you were saying a while back, you know, once you have a glimpse, you can’t forget it. attuning your thinking to this level of understanding does actually shift something in a more permanent way than you might realize it helps to kind of bring about a transformation and one’s perspective.

Cesar Teruel: Absolutely. Absolutely. The understanding of this, transformed your life completely, at least at least the way you perceive things, or at least the way that your behavior changes completely. Yeah. I don’t believe in these things that you keep on doing the same things, and this and that, and the other that stuff. That’s not true.

Rick Archer: Yeah. In fact, in some traditions, especially the Vedic tradition, they say that the final stroke of realization or of Enlightenment, is a matter of understanding, just understanding

Cesar Teruel: is nothing good understanding is not an experience, it is what I tend to people, right, we need to have is an understanding, you have an understanding, that’s good enough, everything else is a byproduct of his understanding. And this understanding is the result of what I call on divided observation. When I see what I call myself, fully, I don’t touch it, I don’t even very be see or use is there, it’s just happening. And then without understanding, okay, what you call yourself, and then you become understanding that there is no such thing as yourself, it’s an understanding, it cannot be the result of any practice, or any effort, or any sort of meditation or anything, it’s just being completely aware of what is happening. And to be aware, Dawson, it doesn’t involve identification, it doesn’t involve any form of control is this be completely possess, see, but while you are aware of the I don’t know how to say, see, like process, you know, like, allow every single cell of your beingness See, been permeated by whatever is happening. And then the understanding happens that I cannot separate myself, from what I think what I feel, from my sense, from what I perceive, and that’s it. And it’s understanding becomes more strong or becomes more established and eventually become fun shakable.

Rick Archer: Just to play devil’s advocate on that point, although I agree with you, I would, I would suggest that, you know, there’s that saying it takes a thorn to remove a thorn, that not everyone is at a point where that clear level of understanding can be attained or stabilized. And there can be many sorts of practices and techniques and meditations and whatnot that can help to clear away a lot of the garbage that will get them to the point of clarity where where such understanding can be appreciated, you know, can be entertained.

Cesar Teruel: Well, I know you have you asked this question all the time.

Rick Archer: I do I guess. It’s sort of like I have this attitude of not that’s fine. That’s fine. Many paths for many people and a lot of things are contributing and it’s it’s easy to dismiss everything else and just say you know, the way I the way I have experienced it is the right way but I kind of feel like everything that one engages that people engage in is new You’re all kind of climbing up the same mountain from different paths.

Cesar Teruel: See, you have to do whatever you have to do until you understand that there is nothing that needs to be done. Yeah, perfect. I

Rick Archer: can agree with that will do whatever they’re gonna do.

Cesar Teruel: And you I need the whole ABC of spirituality. I mean, I’m more, right? And the whole buying of meditation, the service that is and that and do that, would you something is missing here, right? And then you are somehow ready to understand this, to listen to somebody that gives an explanation. Okay, that gave you a description of a fact. And then somehow that makes sense and kicks in and start working by itself seems like push a button in your brain. And that by itself is a working exit after the enters in your brain, the thumb and the energy that has to be there uses that understanding adopts the rest of the work, see, and even inquiry. Such a big misunderstanding about inquiry is not even a question who am I? is a question suggest? If I see you are seated now. Okay. And somebody behind you enters the hole. Okay, somebody answers you. So I’m going to ask you, who is that person? What are you going to do your attention goes? So you’re going to see who that person is? Then who am I is to see what you call eyes to see the See of the personnel see the experience? And when you look at that, it just collapses he cannot you cannot stand? If it is your sin without any identity with it. So more than a question, Who am I is this quality of observation is to become aware of the eye to realize that the eye simply doesn’t exist is nothing but a notion, I believe, or a concept. But definitely, people will have to go through whatever they have to be spirituality or religion of different data, the what I went through the whole ABC. Sure.

Rick Archer: And what I would suggest is that it’s not like you were just killing time, or just sort of doing things that had no influence whatsoever, I would suggest that all the things you went through, kind of were like, it’s like, Here’s an analogy for you. Let’s say a person is standing in the middle of a big mud puddle. And there’s somebody out on the edge of the puddle, it says here, come out of the mud, take a step. And the guy says, Wait a minute, you’re asking me to take a step into the mud. If I take a step, I’m still going to be stepping in mud. And the guy says yeah, but just take the step and then take another step, eventually, you’ll actually step out of the mud puddle. So all the things you went through, for instance, they were still in the mud, you know, they were still ultimately meaningless, we could say, but they were kind of culturing or developing or getting you to the point where you could really step out of the mud puddle altogether.

Cesar Teruel: See that he was told that this is my my experience and the experience of many too, that you may believe that you’re purifying yourself, but you’re not doing you find yourself a target, because the only way that you can purify yourself is if you see what you call yourself. And then I found that anybody that tries to be a good person and then start behaving in a good way eventually becomes a bad person. Because you have been suppressed all the rest has been straining or only way that you can none of that is going to hell. Okay. I mean, he’s gonna help because whatever. But the thing is that the only way to get rid of this stuff is seeing the stuff you cannot get rid of something that you cannot see. So I can repeat my mantras and all that stuff. But I’m not seeing I’m not seeing my subconsciousness I’m not seeing what is hidden in the Pandora box. So the only way on the country while I’m doing all this, okay, I have just putting putting all that on hold that is Oh, come on. When are you going to stop practicing? I need to, I’m supposed to get out of here. You don’t let me get out of here because you are pretending to be finished.

Rick Archer: Although Yeah, again, to play devil’s advocate, I mean, I’ve done on courses where people are doing long meditation, you know, using a Mantra and you wouldn’t believe the garbage that comes up I mean, the stuff that starts getting released and seen. So you know, it can be a methodology, that sort of thing and for hoping to loosen up and uncover stuff that needs to be seen. But

Cesar Teruel: what it might embed you a security guard this code, right? And then you have all these diamonds, right? That wants to get out of the disk. Right want to get out of here. And then just start doing whole sort of form of control or whatever. It’s easy to let them go out but they are not going out because you are doing something they are pushing you see this is just what’s happening. See the demos and just pushing the guy out of the way is happening because I’m repeating mantras is happening because this is us looking for his way out? He can it cannot be the result of a seeker See, it cannot be the result of the means. And this is me trying to achieve something, right, whether it’s to define, trying to liberate something or whatever it is. And even if that happens, if there is a need that apparently is experiencing something called what is coming to the surface, but in reality, there is no one even experiencing what is coming into the foot, because you are the very thing that is coming into it coming to the surface is not separate from from you?

Rick Archer: Well, I would grant you this, that if if a person is doing spiritual practices, which involve a lot of individual manipulation, or effort or control or just individual involvement, then it very much is in tune with what you’re saying that there’s just, you know, all that is not really going to be that effective. But, you know, there, there are some practices which are, which don’t involve so much of that which, which really just are a means of getting yourself out of the way, you know, so that so that this natural unfoldment that you’re talking about, can can proceed without impediment. I spend

Cesar Teruel: a lot of time in India, ashrams and these famous gurus and this and that, and then, and I found myself, you know, such a nice being good is that in the order, and I’m done and ready, but it’s not it’s not true. This is just dormant. It’s just not showing up. It’s just hidden. And then you have a sense, and then you develop an identity with how good I am enlightened dressing in why the whole spiritual thing, whatever, whatever. Oh, yeah,

Rick Archer: I know. And even some of these famous gurus have a lot of stuff they haven’t looked at, you know, they managed to kind of keep buried down.

Cesar Teruel: Or they need to keep an image of a guru. Right, right.

Rick Archer: Yeah, they’re locked into that image, and the big public fame and so on.

Cesar Teruel: US wrote something on faith because my faith has been hacked. And a lot of things have been going on around me, whatever. I said, that means nothing heavier, to carry on a reputation and there’s nothing more tedious than sustain that reputation that keep on you have to control your health, you have to pretend because then you see then then your business is over. Right. But I was going to say something, but I found myself. Okay. When we’re not when when the demo says okay, sorry, I’m sorry, we have to get out of here. So in spite of you, okay, we have to get out of here. And I find myself saying, Oh, my God, look at that, waking up in the morning, with the biggest fear ever the body paralyzed, petrified in bed, not even having the strength or the willpower to remove the bed sheets or my body, okay, in a holy place, believing that I am an enlightened being because this happens after the recognition. And I say, Oh, my God, look at that. And I found myself. Same thing that I couldn’t even believable, capable to think or to feel having thoughts, intentions and dishonesty, oh, mamma, Mia, and Z on today, I understand this is not mine. This is collected. This is not not it is mine. But it’s not only mine, it is collective. Right. And you better leave it on. See, because you may believe that you have mapped the madness is the project may believe that You are mad you because there is no you there is only the madness, needing to express itself to clear up the space. That’s all. It doesn’t matter how many years you are in spirituality or practicing or whatever, sooner or later. See, what we do is like this. You don’t want to do this. Like, you lock on the machine while you’re on a machine, or whatever it is. And then we have an image of ourselves that nobody wants to smell.

Rick Archer: So for those who are just listening in audio is Caesar zipped up his sweater, you know, and when it zipped up, he couldn’t smell his underarm. And then he unzipped it again. And then he can then it was open to that possibility.

Cesar Teruel: I have to say to myself, I am full of crap. Otherwise, I will never it will never go away

Rick Archer: after so in other words, I think what you’re saying here is that you know, as in your own experience, as a spiritual teacher, and you fly around the world and you lecture to hundreds of people, there can be a tendency for a certain persona to develop and to get identified with oh, I’m the Enlightened guy, you know, and people have a certain expectation of me. And you have to kind of keep that counterbalance with humility and with it with the realization that you know, after all, you’re full of crap. Even though you might have something of value to say to people, it doesn’t mean you’re the great, you know, Savior of the world or something. You’re just the guy who’s got something to offer.

Cesar Teruel: We’ll be honest with you and whoever is listening to that. I burned when the rest of my nonsense while talking about the subject. And the people that were coming to the talks were my gurus. They were the one who were steering off all my the rest of what I was there, see and even along the It was wonderful to see how he’s like thank you to the person who’s given this thing. Thanks for some kind of clarity that was attained by listening to the talk. And I was also saying thanks by that person allowing me to see what was what was there because in reality, this is human interaction that is simply happening. There is no guru here is to the student, there is life here, getting rid of Caesar, okay, and life, they are getting rid of the all one that plays the role of a student, but is the one that is doing the whole thing here is the same one that is doing the whole thing here is nobody both in the whole story. So yeah. And it was fascinating. It was a challenge to be able to see all that stuff. And I think maybe it wouldn’t have happened, if I wouldn’t have been exposed to the possibility of speak to people about the subject. And then you’ll you’ll see how you arise how you see the how great you are, and you’re helping to humanity, and then you see that happening. And then you resolve that by seeing that happening is your fun, fascinating. See, this becomes absolutely fascinating. This process of introspection, if you want to see it, or self awareness, or whatever, is yours is just nice. And if you if you do it in the right way, do it so to speak, is just amazing. It’s fascinating.

Rick Archer: So you’re saying so you’re saying that your very function as a spiritual speaker, or teacher has been for you a very evolutionary tool for working out a lot of stuff.

Cesar Teruel: You know, what, I don’t think that there is anybody that can say I am done, right, I agree, because we are talking about subconsciousness consciousness is nothing that you can see on it comes to the surface. So nobody can say that there is not an empty that the Pandora box, it’s empty. And I cannot say I am liberated. Because if you are not liberated, because I am you. So there is no bed, I can possibly say I am fully done.

Rick Archer: Unfortunately, there are people who do say that, but I don’t believe them.

Cesar Teruel: That too, they believe it. And they believe until, until this they need the sense of separation does not disappear collectively from human consciousness, there is no freedom at all. See, because even from a practical point of view, okay, suppose that I am free from conditioning. Okay, I am. Finally is normally when I open my eyes, you’re still there? Yeah, that’s a good market, you’re still a bit in the metro, you’re still there in the traffic jam. In the public office, you’re still out there sitting on the throne, as a king or a queen or a president of a bank levy is used. So I’m not free from from i, because I see this as you.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And you know, Assad is still bombing his people, and people are shooting children in schools, and there’s just so many things that, you know, if we really are the totality, that are contained within us, you know, we contain all this stuff. So obviously, there’s something to work out.

Cesar Teruel: Absolutely, absolutely. And this is when compassion, we know what compassion truly is, I am just going to remove myself from Facebook because this became kind of a joke. And I just want to stick to my website and I want to stick to you have to save myself to listen all this is critical, aspiring and all the non Advaita Vedanta thing and there is no i and they got sick and tired of it. Plus, people are using my see you, you will begin you start becoming a little bit famous or known so to speak. And then you start being a target of judgment and questioning and criticism. And somebody’s trying to see what is there and, and tasting. I said, Listen, I’m gonna click unfriend you, on your site on offending people. And I say, You know what, TFM goodbye, go to the send an email, and I will happily reply to you. And I will just really, because I am actually beginning to understand after six years of talking that this is what I’m doing. And then I’m more willing to work on it to put more energy into that and develop better my website, which is a complete mess. And it gives you a look at that already.

Rick Archer: I did look at it. Yeah, could use a little work.

Cesar Teruel: Because people don’t understand I was talking about about that differently than they thought because I have no interest whatsoever to talk to you to talk to you about the subject. But I don’t mind talking to you. Because the way I function is you see, so what’s the time and I look at my watch I said 1130 And he’s you only see so why am I suffering? Then I reply to you. So whatever I do is just a natural response to the challenge of the pleasant situation. It goes out according to my cultural condition and the capacity that I have do it according to the ability that I have to speak the language English in this case and the vocabulary that I have, and maybe some cultural behavior from myself American Latin blood or whatever it is, you know. But why am I saying this? I keep on getting those answers?

Rick Archer: Well, we’re talking about the role of a teacher. And I’ll go ahead, yeah, I think you’ve got the idea, again,

Cesar Teruel: talking about the possibility to do things without wanting to do it. So I don’t mind doing it. I don’t want to do it. Because life and reality happens without effort, intention, desire, and even knowledge, see it live of a need knowledge to do what has to be done. For example, if I for a second divide myself into two for the sake of explanation, so if I am the awareness, I am in control, I am in control of what happens. So I am controlling this body without knowing how to do it, see, and enjoy my hair, function by heart and the immune system, the whole complexity of the universe, without even knowing how to do it, without making any effort, see, without any intention on any desire, because that which is there, which is intelligent, doesn’t need knowledge, and God can produce it, and use it, but it doesn’t need it anyway.

Rick Archer: Yeah, so you’re saying that that intelligence, which is growing your hair, and you know, governing the planets and so on, is the same? It’s the it’s the same force, which causes your behavior and your your speech? So when you say I’m doing things without wanting to do them, it almost has a negative kind of connotation? Like, you don’t want to do them. But I think what you’re saying is that the motivation to action is just spontaneous. In response to the the the impulses that come

Cesar Teruel: effect if somebody tries to hit automatic response.

Rick Archer: If somebody asks you a question, there’s an automatic response response. But

Cesar Teruel: there is no there is no desire from a site to teach anything to anyone to because in reality, we don’t teach a thing, you are not giving anything to anyone see, we are describing facts, is what is happening. If you can see what I see, then you are free to the lie that there is nothing but freedom, there is not even freedom.

Rick Archer: There’s a metaphor that a teacher is like a reservoir, the reservoir doesn’t really. The reservoir only flows if somebody puts a pipe up to it, you know, and then according to the size of the pipe, there will be a certain amount of flow.

Cesar Teruel: This is my everyday paradox, when I am sitting in front of people that honestly from the depths of my heart says, Guys, what do you want to talk about? Because I have no clue what to tell you. When I answer to the MSA, I don’t even know what I’m talking about.

Rick Archer: Francis Lucille is the same way he doesn’t like to give talks that he has to just give, but he just likes to sit there and then just respond to whatever questions come

Cesar Teruel: alive, otherwise, he’s not real. And then Cecil is like a water. Right? What it is, there is no question about it. You cannot see the seminar is not there. But it’s up to you see, the way you approach the sincerity and the clarity of your questions. And the honesty of your intention is what opens it up. So you come to challenge and to taste and to prove something or whatever you adjust on the country, you’re tightening the tub, but as you really want it to free yourself from your suffering, then there is going to be a tremendous amount of whatever you whatever as much as you want is there as much as you want to say and people are more and more capable to understand that they want during the talks are just an excuse. There is a is an energy movement that is happening there is an energy there, that is vibrating a particular frequency, which is doing the work. Nothing to do with the physical presence of the person or the teacher or the water comes through is use an energy movement. That is a vibration that is bringing an equilibrium in the person because people say Caesar, sometimes especially in the past, when my English was not as good as now.

Rick Archer: It’s pretty good. Now actually,

Cesar Teruel: if people say Caesar, I don’t know a war, what are you talking about? I really don’t cannot get the context. But there is something here that I can perceive is something that I can understand. I don’t know I cannot explain it. And that’s good enough. Yeah. This moment of when the person says, Oh, my God, this moment, that’s the cracking of the structure is no way back. A person go away, the person doesn’t need to come to the talks anymore.

Rick Archer: And I would suggest that it’s not like all the energy is pouring through Caesar and blessing these people. But somehow the the teacher becomes like a catalyst, which helps to facilitate a whole group energy thing that happens in these circumstances and that everybody kind of comes into coherence or attunement. With with some deeper field and mutually uplifts them all.

Cesar Teruel: If not teach, there is no teacher that can possibly say, I am giving you my grace or because of my grace. This is somebody says this is because of my grades. That’s a complete disgrace. Nobody can hold a copyright of this happening here because there is nobody in charge is simply happening. I find myself sometimes giving answers sometimes even talking science and I go, Oh my god, what am I doing? I don’t have sovereignty, to speak about the subject, okay? Somebody sent me an email or a video or some information that backs up intellectually see what I’m talking about? Because you don’t know. You don’t know. Because it’s like a channel is something that it’s not that you are a channel because if I say I am a channel, I am identifying myself as a body. Okay, and saying that, see there is a channeler. And what is channeling and what is channeling. And that often exists, see, the cable, a comfortable is covering the cable and the cable inside and then electricity passing by on the board that might solve because of that old dam is an indivisible unit, we, for the practicality of the matter, we call the plot, the electricity, the cable, the wire, the cover of the wire, the pop, the blog, and the boy, but all that stuff in only one thing. And that’s the beauty of

Rick Archer: it. I remember back back in the 70s, I used to teach Transcendental Meditation and and sometimes I would, if somebody had asked me a question, I really wouldn’t know the answer. But I just start to say a few words. And then the whole thing would just come to me and I would I would be able to give, you know a nice answer. And I asked Maharishi Mahesh Yogi about this. And he said, Well, that’s the way I do it. You know, so there’s just a sort of an impulse, and then it just flows through, you know, based upon the stimulus, the person

Cesar Teruel: is capable to understand because the word doesn’t mean a thing. See, if we can see words, yourself. refering kind of thing, something that refers to something. See, for me, people, there’s some misunderstanding about thought and mind and ideas and so on. So words are words, and not a concept, unless they say, I can say this is a bottle of water, right parameters using the water, the sound, see, just have to refer to the subject. But when they when I when I believe that the award is what I’m what I’m pointing out, then the word now gives a value, give an identity and a definition. And then there is a concept. There is your concept. This is the meaning of concept. But then I say well, this a bottle of water and you say no, that’s a container of water. No, it’s a bottle nicer container. At the beginning was a war. See, and then you have a bachelors and the containers at the side of the battlefield. Right? Because now it becomes a concept. So I don’t mind if people say while it’s happening through me or it’s just happening see if you’re really capable to to you have to take the water and the intention behind the water which is to refer to something then it doesn’t matter because nowadays Oh my God, there’s so much mix up with the spiritual terminology this AI but this

Rick Archer: reminds me of Gulliver’s Travels. There was a controversy between the small lenders and the big Enders in terms of like who cracked their their poached egg from the small end of the war about

Cesar Teruel: it. And half this process is all Mamma Mia guys, you’re completely nuts because we have such a mixture in our head, okay because even words or that has a complete meaning. So the whole thing we believe me we have to dislodge for the whole day put ourselves together. Right? But the word mind for example, there is no mind there is no mind. What does it mean mind really nice idea separate existence of separation doesn’t really exist. That is the meaning of no mind. That no mind or not thought doesn’t mean that you are not thinking is that the idea of separation is no longer operating or appearing in your thought process. That’s all. So silence is not the absence of words or thoughts. Silence is the absence of the idea that I am a separate individual. Sorry, that’s all it’s brutally simple. totally simple.

Rick Archer: That’s nice. That might it might be valuable to just dwell on that point for a second because you know, maybe some people are expecting to be free of thoughts or free of words you know that they’re no longer there mind is going to be a blank but that’s what you’re saying is that well, you just said it that silence is not the absence of all that is just the the freedom from identification with that.

Cesar Teruel: Because if you are the resource for understanding that I and you are one of the same thing. I am fascinated because some of these the first time I come is this amazing because I am I am breaking the breaking the rules and becoming a prophet in my own land. himself Oh

Rick Archer: yeah, well it’s not Venezuela you’re in Mexico.

Cesar Teruel: Somehow assembling was the same culture Central America basically the same if you if you study the culture of Central America is basically one on the same thing. Yeah, it has

Rick Archer: roots you know, you’re teaching in Spanish

Cesar Teruel: Yes. And I’m speaking in Spanish and we have a challenge because having to speak Spanish for nine years sir I thought that everything about we know is fascinating because all we know is that it’s like I can sit in front of a tree okay. My mind is quiet. But all I know is that background the memory for the background and if somebody asked me so what are you doing? I will say I’m watching the tree it’s like the knowledge is there but only comes to the phone when it’s necessary. And he goes back and this movement it happens by itself no efforts no control is no intention is not the size no knowledge is yours happens then learning out of here I’ve been taught about Mayan culture and the principle of mine and says that I am I and I am you it’s not like you and I believe no you and I, I am I and I am you so I am that with CES and that is that which is seen too. So it’s like I am God and part of God is not I am only part of only God and the Son of God so

Rick Archer: that so that was a prominent standard part of their culture.

Cesar Teruel: Oh yeah, that’s both a base that’s nice to say oh my god is so nice for me to really understand my own my own Regency it’s about imagine so the the king at the top of the pyramid it doesn’t represent there was no key they weren’t there was not keen at all that represented the level of consciousness that humanity was capable to attain at that time and the other spaces of the pyramid is your scientific knowledge okay, that you could possibly attain at that time to get this level of understanding this all the scientific knowledge that they developed. So they were not keen at all the pyramids nowhere they were not kind of a palaces or anything because this magnificent destruction and then you have the villages outside not everybody even in the villages on this and the pyramid was a laboratory where everybody was allowed to enter there and experiment and you say the instrument in the laboratory men and women were the same with not true they were killing anybody.

Rick Archer: So it wasn’t the minds that did all the human sacrifices was that some other thing or

Cesar Teruel: the a nice because all these guys coming to the full face now see all these antique there are cultures that people believe didn’t exist anymore like they call this in Colombia and Venezuela and and the miners now showing up here these are extraordinary movements of South America about all this origin and culture coming to your food face and they say no we were not killing anybody that’s not this is what the Spanish they just made that up we just made that up they were not killing anybody there was no human sacrifice is not taking girls and removing the heart and all that stuff. There was no there was no even currency such thing as cocoa see because they didn’t know what economy was the economy everybody have access to all the information and all the wealth and all that stuff they were living in a harmonious way with all the what we know is just made up

Rick Archer: so the Spanish just made that stuff up to justify subjugating and conquering

Cesar Teruel: exactly because we’re marking these guys coming here the policy isn’t one came here this snake was a symbol of the serpent see and when they came here they put a snakes in every single structure and say Oh, we found them mold see this is the these are the bad guys. We are looking for him we’re gonna kill them. But that’s not true. They didn’t know what even what economy was.

Rick Archer: Interesting. All right, well, so What haven’t we covered? Any anything I know that I need to really ask your questions in order to elicit responses but is there anything you feel like you know, you usually like to convey to people that we haven’t really discussed

Cesar Teruel: more than I remember that

Rick Archer: let me ask you this. You know, in terms of your day to day experience now from day to day, week to week, month to month as you go along teaching and traveling and so on. What is it that really inspires you now what do you feel like you know,

Cesar Teruel: what really what really gives me the because it’s tiring, okay, it’s fun in a way because you travel a lot and you know many places and you know, people in Bath quite interesting. What is very challenging and demanding for the body. Actually, I collapse physically in December last year in Spain, I couldn’t even move anymore.

Rick Archer: You’re a pretty young guy, you must be in your 30s. Right?

Cesar Teruel: I’m 4343. Okay, so

Rick Archer: you’re 20 years younger than I am. Although I’d like to be doing what you’re doing. But it’d be even more tiring for me.

Cesar Teruel: What? fascinated me and what is keeping me like, like, okay, it doesn’t matter how exhausting it can be is, the more and more people are. Okay, and you have to say a few words, or a few things, and the people immediately start grabbing my say, Well, that’s nice. That’s nice. That I can see how the whole thing is changing. It’s like it is working. So it is worth doing it, so to speak.

Rick Archer: So do you feel like people are getting it more readily than they used to? It’s like, they’re waking up more easily more quickly or something?

Cesar Teruel: I don’t know, I don’t, I don’t, I cannot separate anything from anything, right? There is an energy movement going on. Or if you’re quiet enough, you can feel it. Because the body is the world. See, so what happens in the war happens in the body, feel it in your own in yourself, you can see how the energy is just rising up, it’s like,

Rick Archer: you feel like it’s accelerating or getting more intense or something

Cesar Teruel: or debating the process. But with the process acceleration, this is my only concern. So if you have a sewing machine, for example, okay. And it’s programmed to do this, it has a problem, right? And this machine is working on battery six volts. So if you put 12 volts, what happens is that you put 120 volts,

Rick Archer: you probably blow it out.

Cesar Teruel: Without, yeah, my only concern, especially when I see all these occupational movements and all that stuff is that then they is happening, can other people get out of the sense of separation, or it can just devastate whoever is not enough conscious? Why? Because if you have a set in your head, you see to stop people, right? And then you accelerate dials and you will have somebody, okay, that is doing that with more intensity. That’s my only concern, or perhaps one can say the negative side of the hole, that I heard people saying that those who are not aware enough will not be able to go through, see because this you are not capable to not be in conflict, this all that stuff. So it can get this all what you see, then is going to be calm, it’s like the madness of accessing human form, will become manifested in the maximum expression.

Rick Archer: Interesting, you should say that. I mean, we just had this shooting a week ago in the United States in our 26 people and 2020 young children were shot. And so there’s a lot of discussion now about mental health. And it said that one in 17 Americans are seriously mentally ill, but they’re not institutionalized or being cared for. They’re just running around on the streets. And so what your concern you’re and people are wondering, Why is everybody so crazy? Why, why are all the shootings taking place, and also, what you’re saying is maybe the the world energy is increasing, and it’s going to make the crazy or the crazy people crazier,

Cesar Teruel: we cannot expect any other reaction from the poorer humanity that has been repressed and control for 1000s of years. See, then they get sick and tired, because that’s the only difference between a madman and an awakened being, both are awakened. The difference is that the madman is in absolute complete conflict with a society being in conflict with the society is suffering. And then we will try to get rid of the course, where he believes what she believes is suffering, which is the society. And if he doesn’t believe in a society but himself, then he or he committed the homicide, or suicide, right? And when you have a tremendous amount of suffering, and you don’t know how to deal with that, then you go, you need to kill that you need to come down that you need the painkiller, right. And this is why people go to sex and drugs and alcohol and, and distraction and entertainment, and all that stuff. Because they don’t know but there’s no difference in the madman doesn’t want to be part of the society of this culture. But Awakened One couldn’t care less because he knows that is he is not that he or she can do. For example, I say I use the system to survive, but the system cannot use me to survive, because I will take only 1% over the system provide because it’s the only thing that I need. So far, I’m concerned, I’m not sponsoring that, if I’m not sponsoring that it collapses. So the system has such will not collapse because I occupy the streets and occupy this and I do this and the other I simply don’t believe in a default, don’t cooperate with it. And I will find myself moving in a complete parallel direction, doing whatever I have to and leaving leaving the society Till behind. So when you have a society that has been repressed and controlled for 1000s of years, so all this anger and all this resentment can explode, the I’m talking about is it this really global awakening will imply that I will have to sit and eat in the same table, okay with the same people that I believe are oppressing the humanity for 1000s of years, because if I don’t include them, I become them. See, I still am exactly like them. Because that means release people from jail, that me because the jail the criminal is a byproduct of the society is you don’t have something called private property, which is an absolute, see when something belongs to the individual of the state, which means every single arm to the state, because the individual is part of the state. So what can you expect? See, the society makes you either the slave or a thief gives you no choice? What type of the society which is completely individualistic country forces that believe that you can fulfill your own dreams, but they sell you the dream that you’re going to fulfill? Why? Because they want to do business with that.

Rick Archer: I still see you still got a bit of the political radical in you. And I just gotta say, you know, oh, go ahead. You were gonna say something else. Go ahead.

Cesar Teruel: Okay, it but we were talking about the approach to a particular subject, according to the subject itself, tell you how to deal with that. But there is no revolution here anymore. So I’m not concerned about fighting the system. I couldn’t care less about the system. But sometimes you have to prove that because you have no choice. See, see what Nothing makes me laugh the most when I cross a migration point. And I do that a lot. And I say, Oh, my God, and I have to, you have to see to the embassies and the migration points, I have to make them to do homework. I burned a five years possible in two and a half years. And I say to the embassy, please put my stamps from the front to the back. And I take the migration agent to put the staff back before so I can have enough space in the passport because sometimes they do. And you lose your passport. And they look at you, you know why? Well, I don’t say that I said, Well, to begin with as my passport. And what I need to do with my person, whatever they want, can you mind that to the stamp here? And then when I see what that is, oh, my God, look at that stuff. All these people that are completely legal. They visa file, okay, they have money, but when they see the authority, they are terrified. They are nervous, even when they are completely legal, whatever that means. And I laugh and I say, Oh, my God, literally law is the point I have to put myself together, enough for security too common to believe that I’m stoned or drunk or on there’s something I say, Oh, my God, look at that stuff. Somebody takes a piece of paper, and then looks at you. And I said, Yes, this is your identity. What says who you are? And then how can we speak in a society like that, sooner or later, we know we can’t take it anymore. When you see all these revolutions, the Uber charters, whichever they are vibe with a mechanic in opposition. And if you are in opposition, you are divided, you are divided, you are in conflict, and therefore they will be suffering in one way or another.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I would say that a point we could extract from what we’ve been talking about for last five minutes is reminiscent of what you were saying at the beginning about, you know, when awakening occurs, and that’s not the end of it, there has to be all this working out of conditioning and impressions and so on, that have been stored up for who knows how long. And perhaps what we’re seeing is we’re seeing that on a societal level, where there’s a kind of a global awakening taking place like that welling up of the energy, as you were saying a few minutes ago, and like it or not, that’s causing people to begin to process all kinds of stuff that’s been buried in them. And the difference is that if someone has kind of consciously and intentionally been going through such a process, they’ve worked a lot of it out, you know, and dealt with a lot, but if somebody hasn’t been, and now they’re going to be forced to be, then it could be much more traumatic for them than then if they had already been kind of consciously on that. On that, on that train on that project.

Cesar Teruel: Yes, yes, that’s what I’m saying. That’s my concern, see, when you see that child what happens in us, so who knows through what was going on by child so we cannot call them criminals, they are not the effect they are not the cause. It was so they are the byproduct of something. Right? So beyond sometimes I don’t believe that mental illnesses are there you have something wrong in your brain, okay. Or you have no idea but they are not separate from your brain because the brain structures depend depend very much upon your thoughts. Sure. So what are we talking about? See this, from this point of view, there is a tremendous amount of understanding and compassion, it’s not possible to judge anything or anyone, because it is an understanding of what is going on. So I don’t want to put these people in jail, I want to see why this is happening to avoid this happening again, because jealousy is also different. So both watching some stories the other day, I say, Oh, my God is the jail is a complete business, it’s like a complete infrastructure that makes a fortune is and this infrastructure is of concern at all about fixing the problem, because the fix the problem with the ethnicity, Father, for is unbelievable.

Rick Archer: That’s true. And some people even argue that the same is true of you know, cancer and some others problems like that, like it’s a huge business, and if it got cured, then a lot of people would be out of a job.

Cesar Teruel: But there is something interesting going on is that all data is coming to the surface. And internet is doing a good job. Yeah, it’s a tremendous amount of information out there, and anybody can access to it for free. So tremendous amount of rubbish, but also you have a tremendous amount of Google stuff. So it will be up to you to be able to see that like kind of from a site. So to see that this is rubbish, this is not and then you stay with this, and then you discard the past. This is something that is part of his personal observation is like without any effort, again, this intention or even knowledge, see this process of discrimination between this and that happens. And the removal of that, or non applicability of that, of course, and this only is what is operating, which is just a practicality of, of the thought process. In absolute harmony or manatee in harmony, and harmony, and whatever is around you will see this own divided attention, its own divided attention is still you’re paying attention to something that you are not divided. See, from what you’re paying attention to. That’s the that’s the simplicity of this message, if you want to call it now or suggestion or limitation or whatever, you know, language is subject to interpretation.

Rick Archer: All right, well, I guess we might as well wrap it up, we’re kind of getting close to the, to our point. So this has been enjoyable i You’re one of these people that I could kind of keep going on all day, just I say that everybody I mean says but some people more than others, you know, some people it’s like, a little bit like pulling teeth, you know, getting getting the thing to flow. But in your case, you know, you’re you’re kind of a fountainhead of, of creativity and interesting perspectives. And I really appreciate that. And I’m sure that’s why you get four or five 600 people coming into your talks and different places. And I’m not saying this to puff up your ego or anything, I’m just saying that that’s the way you’re wired. And that’s the function you’re performing. And, and I think it’s a good thing for the world.

Cesar Teruel: Sometimes. Also, while you’re doing because it is part of it’s part of the of the whole mechanism. Yeah, part of the whole game, I’m speaking to you, for them, when you put this on the internet and 1000s of people can see that, you know, I think get a benefit from it. So why not? Even if even if you don’t want to do it, there’s nothing wrong with doing it.

Rick Archer: You know, what, the only thing people say is that they appreciate the diversity. You know, I’ve done about 150 of these now. And, and sometimes I’ll put one up and certain people say, I think that person is kind of crazy. And why did you interview that person? But then on the other hand, they say, Yeah, you know, it’s it’s really interesting to see, it’s, it’s just a different perspective. And it kind of helps me to break out of my, my limited understanding that you know, it has to be this particular way and no other

Cesar Teruel: workshop and we are helping each other in one way or another the interaction, the interaction itself, bring somehow some kind of understanding and some kind of dissolution or whatever. So I also understood that when I was listening to my videos, because I was requested to do so because of my language limitations of whatever. And I said, Oh, my God, look at that is the I look at myself talking. Listen to myself talk. So what am I talking about? See, that’s not what I’m trying to say. So I know what I’m talking about when I don’t know how to talk about it. Because I don’t think that anybody from the beginning is capable to deliver this in a very clear and simple way. So it takes a while

Rick Archer: to tell us. So like you were saying earlier, nobody’s done. And that also is it’s true as if you try to expound this, it’s there’s no end to the degree of refinement that might be possible and clarity and subtlety of expression.

Cesar Teruel: Exactly. Because I see so you have changed a lot. No, I’m not changing. It’s not that I’m changing. Is that the as you say it’s a process of refinement. And then you learn How to you don’t learn somehow it it starts happening also by itself that it becomes simple and clear. And it’s you stay in that clarity and that simplicity, instead of going to the very failure and the karma, and this and that, and the other, just to stay with this, that that’s, that’s enough, and people are more more interested in that I want something simple. And I want something clear, because I did reverse it in the hustle work.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s good. That’s like anything. And this would actually apply not only to teachers, but to everybody who’s listening. It’s, you know, you play the violin, the more you do it, there’s like a muscle memory, they say that gets developed or skiing, you know, the more you do it that the ability to do, it just gets ingrained. So the more one sort of puts one’s attention on this sort of thing we’re talking about, the more second nature it becomes,

Cesar Teruel: and you learn everyday for me is a constant process of developing or groin, or whatever you like to call it. So nobody can say I’m done. And when you say I’m perfect, you’re dead. Because then you get stuck in a particular thing that you’re not you call perfection say, Okay, I reach in the spirit quality, the state of perfection, what on earth system, reach the point of who reached any point of anything, see, when the whole thing is he goes on and on and on, and the brain goes on growing. And they see the whole thing goes on expanding and developing and changing. Who knows who is there to begin with? Is there is any,

Rick Archer: I talked to a lot of spiritual people, and I haven’t met any perfect ones yet.

Cesar Teruel: The fix is not perfection. But the things you interview the same person two, three times. So

Rick Archer: sometimes, usually, it’s a case where somebody has undergone a lot of change, you know, since the last time I interviewed them, that maybe their perspective has really shifted, or they have something really unique, too new to say that, you know, some something they realized that they didn’t hadn’t realize back then then they will do another one a year or two later. Or

Cesar Teruel: maybe I feel that there is kind of an interaction between you and the viewers that the viewer is somehow the one that dictates who is coming and why is coming and who’s not because basically the viewer who, who says I would like to see this, and usual some time to fulfill that demand,

Rick Archer: to a certain extent. And in fact, you know, people send in requests all the time, and I keep like a spreadsheet with, you know, our friend, Dana helps to keep this where we keep a tally of how many people have been recommended. And even though sometimes I’ll interview people that nobody has ever heard of, or recommended, because I just feel like that would be interesting person, we do try to get to the people, but a lot of people are requesting.

Cesar Teruel: Well, I will say thank you, also to you. And it was also interesting, because it was very open space. It was it was really, really, really, there was a communication from afar as I can see that kind of a flaw of the conversation.

Rick Archer: Yeah, good. I felt that too. I really enjoyed talking to you. So let me make just a couple of concluding remarks. I’ve been speaking with CCSR turiya. To pronounce it correctly. And or Cesar we might say, and at the moment, he’s in Mexico, but he travels all over. And if you check his website, which is what sees Cesar terrell.com. And I’ll be linking to that website from batgap.com. So you don’t need to worry about the spelling or anything, just check there. And you’ll, you can get in touch with them or see what his schedule is going to be, where he’s going to be, and so on if you’d like to, you know, come to one of his talks. And this discussion that I’ve been having with Cesar is one that I have every week with someone and so if you’d like to listen to others, subscribe to the YouTube channel or go to batgap.com. And as little tab, you can click to sign up for an email notification whenever a new interview is put up. There’s also a discussion group there that gets built up around each interview. And there’s also a general discussion tab. But specific to each interview, a discussion arises each week. So feel free to participate in that it’s, you have to kind of sign up and register on the site. But it’s not too complicated. There’s a donation button there, which I appreciate people clicking when they feel inclined. And this is also available as an audio podcast. If you don’t want to sit in front of your computer and listen to you have to just sit there and watch. You can listen while you’re commuting or something. So there’s a link with each interview to the iTunes site where you can subscribe to the podcast. You’ll see that there so that we about to say something here.

Cesar Teruel: Because I’m allowing you to do whatever you have to do. I just missed the point where because people are more or less aware of this is what is happening. They keep on asking me when this is going to be online. So to be able to watch it. So what can I tell them?

Rick Archer: Oh, well, I’m a little bit backlogged right now. So it might be like around Two years or something when this actually gets online, but by the time anybody is actually watching or listening to this, of course, it will already be alive. But people you’re you’re talking to tell them, it might be a couple of weeks. But it’ll be up as soon as

Cesar Teruel: possible. And how do they access, it’s gonna be on YouTube, or

Rick Archer: it’ll be on YouTube. And they, if they search for your name, they’ll probably find it there. Also, if they go to batgap.com, bat gap, they’ll see it there. And, you know, just my website, Buddha at the Gas Pump, and they’ll see all the other, you know, 150 ones I’ve done, all archived. And on the right hand side, there’s a column of all the names of the people that I’ve interviewed, it’s alphabetical, so yours will be under the seas? And

Cesar Teruel: why do you mind to send me an email or on a Skype formation. So because in the same way you, you are given the chance to people to have kind of a buffet of teachers who can come here and there, whatever they want. So I can also put it on my website. And like, you refer to me, and I refer to you too. So if you can send me that information in details, then I could put an announcement on my website or on Facebook for as long as it lasts or whatever, so we can Okay,

Rick Archer: great. I’ll do that. Thanks. All right. So thank you, Cesar. And thank you to all those who have been listening or watching and we’ll see you next week.