Andrew Hewson Transcript

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Andrew Hewson Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually Awakening people. We’ve done over 560 of them now I think and if this is new to you and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to – b a t g a p – and go to the past interviews menu. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it, and would like to help support it, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site. And if you have a PayPal aversion, there is also a page that explains other ways to donate. My guest today is Andrew Hewson. Welcome, Andrew.

Andrew Hewson: Hey, Rick. Thanks for having me.

Rick Archer: You’re welcome. Andrew is I’m just going to read part of his bio that he sent me and then I’m going to have him flesh it out a bit. Andrew is a contemporary spiritual teacher whose focus is on the realization of the presence of divinity as one’s fundamental source and self, emphasizing transcendence as a process that cannot only be undergone in the midst of daily living, but even facilitated by it. Andrew speaks from the experiential reality of having been carried by the grace of total transformation in the context of daily life. Growing up in the south eastern United States, North Carolina, Andrew’s childhood was characterized by a state of lightness, freedom and underlying connection. This effortless way of being was taken as an unspoken given until an intense qualitative shift took place in his early teens, the condition which ones prevailed. In other words, the lightness, freedom and underlying connection progressively became replaced by an acute sense of separation, limitation and lack, leaving little room for functional participation in the common activities of human life. With this radical drop into apparent fragmentation, Andrew began to seek relief wherever possible. The seeking eventually led to the discovery of altered states of consciousness through the use of alcohol and drugs, which quickly spiraled into the pits of despair. After years of unsuccessfully attempting to live from such a constricted sense of identity, Andrew found himself in a medical isolation jail cell facing 30 years in prison. It was there in the midst of absolute hopelessness and despair. That grace that the grace of surrender shone forth, bringing about a profound shift in consciousness. This transformation revealed a still silent presence or field, the vine and its nature and ignited a fire for spiritual evolution. Right. So stop right there and ask you some questions. So what did you do to get yourself in prison? Are you dealing drugs or something?

Andrew Hewson: No, actually, it was a car wreck.

Rick Archer: Where you were drunk and ran into somebody?

Andrew Hewson: No, not drunk. It was another drug. Uh

Rick Archer: huh. Okay. And so the drug caused you to wreck the car.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, that’s what seemed to be going on.

Rick Archer: I’m only laughing because of the roundabout way of saying it. And did someone actually die in that wreck?

Andrew Hewson: No, no. badly injured. All three of the bodies involved? This one and the other two? Uh huh. And one of them ended up having a leg amputated.

Rick Archer: Wow. Had you gotten into, you know, opiates? Was it heroin or something that usually people get pretty out of it on that sort of drug?

Andrew Hewson: Well, the drugs that weren’t used would be easier to listen the ones that were so I don’t want to get into all of that. But basically, addiction is for many things, and drugs and alcohol just happened to be one of the outlets for addiction.

Rick Archer: Sure. Okay, well, I went through a phase like that myself as did many people and actually spent a couple of nights in jail, but nothing nothing quite so serious Is that so? Somehow you beat the potential prison rap? was an I guess you had you. So talk about the shift that happened. I guess it happened in the jail cell. What What woke you up? Do you think or what was the nature of the waking up?

Andrew Hewson: Well, One thing that I like to point out to everyone is that a shift in identity is not an event. It’s not an experience. So to select something out, and to say this is where this happened is really arbitrary and inaccurate, we have to have a fuller perspective. It’s like this interview. For instance, if I say, this interview starts five minutes ago, and then it’s going to end at five o’clock Eastern Standard Time, that really cuts out the rest of creation, and the rest of the universe. And everything is connected. Everything is the expression of one field of intelligence interacting with itself. So if we isolate out Andrew’s apparent event, we’re really dealing in the illusion of separation, which there is no separation. So I understand that, in the convenience of language, we have discussions like this, but I also think that it’s important that we have a very fundamental perspective, when we examine areas of our own life and what seems to be going on in the world.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and I’ve heard you talk, you sent me 23 hours of things to listen to, and I only got nine hours. But including your conversations with David Buckland, which were interesting. But and I’ve heard you talk about that, you know, the things are not as linear as they seem, or perhaps not at all in here. And that it’s sort of erroneous to speak of causes and effects. However, there’s there is such a thing as you know, conditional or transactional reality, I think they call it did at Harker or something like that in Sanskrit, which has its own level of significance, even though it may not be the ultimate reality.

Andrew Hewson: Well, for those that are stuck in the dominance of that sense of transactional or causal relationship, it is supportive for the evolution of the conscious experiencing to bring in the understanding that that is not actually what it seems to be. Because what sets what that is reinforcing is the sense that there’s a separate independent AI, that is fragmented from the hole, that is either the cause or the effect of what seems to be going on in the world. And as long as that is in place, we do not know the truth of the light that we are, and we feel limited, we feel lacking, and we feel incomplete. So my primary intention, we might say, is for those that are seeking to return to a sense of completion, to discover that within themselves. And so I offer that which I feel is most supportive of that recognition and realization.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s great. Um, however, you know, I’ve run into many people over the years who kind of understand intellectually, what you’re saying here, and what others have said, along these lines. But it’s not actually their experience. And yet, they try to make the intellectual understanding and experience their mistake, an intellectual understanding for, for realization. And that can result in some very strange ways of dealing with the world. For instance, I heard recently a story about a well known spiritual teacher who advise some guy to drink two gallons of water. So I guess, must have been some kind of purification thing. So the guy drank two gallons of water within about a five minute period. I don’t know whether that was what the other fellow had, had really intended. And it threw his sodium balance or something so far out of whack that he died. And then his wife, who was also on this course with him, just took it very philosophically, oh, there is no one to die. And, you know, there’s no, there’s actually no death and no body and, and this and that, and which to me, is like screaming spiritual bypassing. It’s like, No, you don’t drink two gallons of water. And if you do, it’s a stupid thing to do. But it’s good to kill your body. And that has its, you know, level of relevance.

Andrew Hewson: Yes, of course. We’re all accountable to the recognition of reality that we are currently in. And this experience here this case, in my own case, I was accountable to that level of spirituality, and paid the dues that were necessary and went through everything that could be done by Andrew, in reference to the reparation of what needed seem to need reparation. And if you will examine this teaching a little bit further, you’ll see that spiritual bypassing just simply isn’t an option because one of the largest parts of it is meditation, and contemplative supplication, which is an investigation into unresolved content on a daily basis. So

Rick Archer: just to push this a little further, so if you had been on that course, knowing what you know, saying the kind of things you say, and the guy had died and you were talking to his wife? And she was saying things like that. What would you have said to her, Do you think?

Andrew Hewson: Hmm. It’s an interesting question hypothetical.

Rick Archer: But you know,

Andrew Hewson: if anyone is out of alignment with what their recognition of truth is, that I would tell them, that they are attempting to apply something that is not applicable to their experience within their experience, and that it’s a limitation, and that they’re hiding behind spiritual concepts as an attempt to not deal with something that needs to be dealt with.

Rick Archer: That’s good, very well put. Yeah, the thing about not applicable. teacher of mine always used to say, you know, you can’t this kind of, like this example, in a way because I wouldn’t want to shoot a tiger, but he said, You can’t use the gun of the waking state to shoot the Tiger of the dream state. You know, different realities apply in different states of consciousness. Beautiful, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And the whole thing again, about causality, cause and effect, and so on. I know, if we, if we refer to physics, for instance, you know, there’s a level of we could say, Newtonian physics, where cause and effect is very well worked out in the mathematics of it is understood and, and all kinds of things. And then there, when you get down to quantum mechanics, and subtler levels of more modern physics, those concepts become meaningless, because on those levels of creation, it just doesn’t work that way, you know, but it still works that way, on the level of Newtonian physics on the on the sort of gross material level, and you need to take that kind of thing into account, if you’re going to build a bridge or an airplane, or, you know, a building or something like that.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, it’s something that is very selective and contextual, you know, I don’t tell my grandparents that there is no such thing as causality. You know, I live in the world just like everyone else does. But when it comes to those that are coming here for guidance, we look at things a little bit more deeply. And we do that with an understanding that there are different paradigms, and that there is a more complete picture. And it’s never something that is attempting to wiggle out of something, or to get out of something. But something that is moving in the direction of a more inclusive, comprehensive picture of what it is that our truth, actually is.

Rick Archer: Good. I like that. I like the words inclusive and comprehensive. So by those words, do you mean that, you know, you’re kind of expanding the spectrum of you know, that which your life experience includes such that, you know, it may still include the mundane considerations that it has always included? But that it’s taking into account other levels of reality? That might be radically different from those mundane considerations, and that the two are not incompatible? They’re just sort of different realities within a larger hole? Could you say it that way?

Andrew Hewson: Well, essentially, it has to do with dominance. And so what we’re concerned with is shifting from paradigm of existence, which seems to be dominated by content and form and mechanistically interacting presentations of measurability into a larger, broader context of a recognition of reality which we seek to be ourselves, which is the field of conscious awareness. So the whole movement then is for this field, which is right here speaking to itself, to realize itself to recognize its reality through a given nervous system. And in that supports the entirety of mankind, and

Rick Archer: that’s great. No, I like that. Yeah, dominance. not either or, but both end. Mm hmm. I think Nisargadatta said something along the lines of that the ability to appreciate paradox and ambiguity is a sign of spiritual maturity. Beautiful. So let’s just see here. Well, I think I’ll ask you this first, which comes to mind, which is, so before we lose the trail of your personal story, which I know you’re going to try to wriggle out of, but um, what was your I mean, what was you must have had some prior, maybe not, I mean, did you have some kind of prior interest in the kinds of things we’re now discussing such that when you were in that jail cell, you know, you could refer back to that and, you know, start to you know, undergo the ship Do you underwent? Or did it all just come completely spontaneously with no background?

Andrew Hewson: No? Well, first, I don’t have any problem talking about my personal story I, I often tell personal anecdotes and in our groups and retreats and things like that. So that would be a early phase of shifting into a higher recognition of reality, which would still be adolescent from a later stage of development, meaning that to get stuck in this no person, kind of a situation where we run away from the personal side of life is really unhelpful and a sign that things still need to develop more fully.

Rick Archer: Did you go through that kind of phase? The nonprofit? Yes, but

Andrew Hewson: it was, it was short lived by grace. Good. Yeah. Because devotion was already in place at that point. So yes, there throughout the lifetime, there were several things that were spiritually significant. One of the interesting things that takes place when we do shift into recognizing our reality as this field, and the sense of separate autonomy sort of results, and is first is transcended, and then resolves, the the remnants of it at least, is that we do not feel any more like we have lived a life. And that we’ve grown up or been in time in the same way. So everything is contained within this field of conscious awareness, which is timeless and formless. It is appearing as the emergence of form. So what I recognized to be spiritually significant would be just moments in childhood where the sense of that personal separate experiencer would just disappear. And this will be in nature, oftentimes, and there will just be just pure experiencing, just seeing the trees and snow and all of the beauty and a deep silence and peace. And oftentimes, Andrew would then try to get back there try to go back to that same spot and nature, because the mind was equating that with that tasting of something deeper. And when the sense of separation solidified, living, in what seemed to be this sort of meat suit that was really uncomfortable, was, in a way unbearable, is that there was such a deep sense of fragmentation. And in early, early in early childhood, there was a great sense of expansiveness and lightness and freedom and, and deep, deep connection, even though it wasn’t labeled that because it was just the natural status. And I feel like for many human beings, this is the case, then we come into this place where we do drop into that sense of fragmentation. And in this case, and in other cases, it was very extreme. And it demanded attention, it wasn’t something that could just be lived with. And so that limited sense of identity started to seek outside of itself to try to find ways to fix this sense of fragmentation to make this go away. And it tried lots of different things being funny at school, you know, watching TV eating too much, even went through a period where there was a small eating disorder. And and then finally, it turned into alcohol, and then drugs. And from that point, it was all always something that was had a life of its own, it really had little to do with decision or choice. And that’s not an excuse for what took place during those years. As what has appeared to take place during those years has been addressed and will be addressed if it needs to in whatever way. That’s one of the first things we learn on the spiritual path more coming out of addiction is that we have to really apply spiritual principles to our life in a way that perhaps other human beings that are not addicted do not and this is in the the typical recovery, spiritual recovery setting. So in the jail cell. These, these sort of timeless moments and knowing and, and expressions of knowingness that had been there, throughout the Incarnation, all of a sudden came forth and made sense in a new way along with some of the teachings of Jesus Christ that I had been exposed to, and different things like that. But it was it was as if the perfection of the whole presentation of the those years of addiction and everything that seemed to go on during that period was revealed. And there was this deep understanding that this is exactly how it was supposed to be and had to be and And I found what I was looking for finally, I didn’t know that I was looking for the presence of God. But that’s what I was always looking for. And innocently. Andrew was just mistaken about where to find that. And looking at all the wrong places. Yeah,

Rick Archer: yep. As the song says. And I think that’s what everybody in the world is doing. You know, they’re all looking for the presence of God, and not too many of them looking in places that will reveal that presence directly. But eventually, we get there. Yeah, yeah, Grace. Sometimes I had the feeling now I’ve heard people say that a lot of times, someone who’s destined to be a teacher has to go through, you know, certain experiences, sometimes very rough ones, in order to be an effective teacher for others who are going through experiences like that.

Andrew Hewson: Yes, I’ve often had that sense, or there’s a direct understanding of kind of the function of the Incarnation, we might say, and the way in which things have unfolded. And this was known at a very early age, actually, I remember being at the beach as a young boy. And there was this knowingness of a certain purpose or a certain function. But there was no language to articulate it. And it was very abstract and field field like, yeah, so in the jail cell, there wasn’t a direct shift in identity. That’s why I don’t like to speak about it as an event or an experience. But what took place is that there was field recognition, what I call field recognition, meaning that the field of conscious awareness in particular the aspect, which I refer to as the conscious presence aspect, revealed itself. And so still, at the sense of being Andrew as an experiencer, there was an awareness of what Andrew or what I refer to as the presence of God, at that point, the field had not yet recognized that it was itself through this nervous system. And so there still seemed to be an experiencer of the field.

Rick Archer: I see. Yeah. He might have said at the time, he might have said, yeah, I, Andrew, I’m experiencing sensing or intuiting this field, but you wouldn’t have said I am the field?

Andrew Hewson: Yes, correct. And actually, there was direct visual perception of the field as well, which is almost like heat coming off the top of a grill. Yeah. And from that point, it has just intensified and has never gone away. And that moves through the various stages that I talked about in the teaching as well.

Rick Archer: That’s interesting. Do you ever without getting too esoteric, do you? Do you ever sort of have any sense of past life development culminate, or resulting in whatever stage that you’ve come into this one app?

Andrew Hewson: Well, yes, it goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning about having a broad perspective and a full picture and not fragmenting off events. So we can look at the lifetime, almost like this interview, right? It’s an it’s a very small piece of something much larger. Sure. And then there’s, you know, there’s contexts within context, as far as that’s concerned. So, yeah, there, there has been some very specific knowingness and remembrance of certain things. But I don’t know if it’s best to go into all of that right now.

Rick Archer: So you don’t have to, if you don’t want to, you can if you want, but I wouldn’t press you on it. But I think as a general principle, I get the sense that, well, it’s my philosophy of things, and certainly not mine. I didn’t make it up that, you know, spiritual development is a vast spectrum, vast continuum, and any one lifetime is just a little band on that spectrum. And that, you know, we, we basically pick up where we left off, you know, as the Gita says, just as just as a man casts off worn off garments and takes on others that are new. So do we cast off worn off bodies and take up other new ones, which is a good perspective for people to have, I think, because it can create a great deal of reassurance or peace of mind, you know, like you said, if you feel like I am this meat body that you use, and that’s all I am, then then what happens to the meat body is of really great significance as compared to I am this field.

Andrew Hewson: Yes, exactly. One thing that I just would want everyone to know is that we are our own limitation, you know, this, this truth of the self that we are appears to limit itself and that is what we know is the human condition. So when I see those that assume that they’re so far behind or you know, missing the mark so greatly, I just feel moved to remind them that things are not what they appear to be. And to know that if you’re listening to material like this, if you’re even drawn towards something like this, there is a larger portion of the picture that’s not being seen. And to start to put some trust in that, and to intuit that and to move in the direction of the possibility that grace can reveal aspects of our own identity, which seem to be concealed at a current moment. Yeah,

Rick Archer: that’s very nice, nicely, but yeah, people should never feel frustrated or depressed or something. Because they, they feel like there’s some kind of spiritual schmuck. I mean, just that, like you said, the very fact that one would be interested in this kind of conversation is pretty significant by you know, you consider the whole human population, how many people are actually interested in this stuff. I mean, not to not to toot our horns as being special anything, but it’s, it’s still a very small percentage of the population.

Andrew Hewson: It is, yeah. And I, I see it all, as an expression of grace, the story of Andrew is one of failure. So it’s pretty obvious for anyone that does their research, that Andrew hasn’t done anything, to get into a certain space or to realize something or recognize something, it was not by Andrew’s power or authority, that anything has been revealed. It is by the grace of the one divinity, that we are all are expressions of.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but you know, as I think Jesus or somewhere in the Bible, it says, God helps those who help themselves. So, you know, you can’t, I mean, we can, who is there, some Zen teacher I’ve quoted, this one often says, said, enlightenment may be an accident, but spiritual practice makes you accident prone. So, you know, there are certain things we can do to set up the conditions in which grace is better able to operate.

Andrew Hewson: Rick, this is true, and I do prescribe, things that I feel are in alignment with the recognition of reality and the status of infinity. And these are things that are applied on a daily basis, but at the same time, Andrew couldn’t help himself. So if it was only true, that God helps those who can help themselves and Andrew wouldn’t be sitting here right now.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, you know, that’s a big theme. And a, you may have gone to a meetings that, you know, basically right, I mean, have you gone to a meeting, I have been to a few Yeah, you know, that a certain point, you realize, you know, I can’t do this on my own, I, you, you kind of submit to a higher power, as your only hope.

Andrew Hewson: That’s actually a theme that’s been around in great traditions from the East as well. It’s a movement of natural recognition, where there is the grace of seeing that in and of myself, I am nothing. And it is the father that does the work that is the the one power that has this capacity to awaken to itself through this body. Yeah,

Rick Archer: let’s get into that for a minute. I have some other things here, I could ask you, but I’m pretty good at articulating this, all the hours of listen to you. And I’ll just give you a little hint of what I’m getting at and then let you elaborate but um, if we really think in terms of oneness or unity, and you know, non fragmentation as being the Ultimate Reality of Things, then who is doing what and to whom, by by whom, there really is only the oneness. And so it must somehow this whole play and display of the universe must be the oneness or the Unity interacting with itself. And so this whole talk of Rick interviewing Andrew or, you know, having this conversation or anything else, it’s really just the oneness, sort of self interacting. And yeah, creating this sort of marvelous appearance of diversity and variety and so on. You want to you want to riff on that for a bit.

Andrew Hewson: Sure. Well, this is where the word appearance becomes very useful and helpful. The word seeming these kinds of things. Essentially, pure divinity is the only reality and That’s actually even the source of conscious awareness. So conscious awareness is the light of divinity. And within this light, we see the process of experiencing, appear to arise, which is essentially the light becoming conscious of itself as self aware. And in that the process of experiencing then presents the patterning of form, which is much more complex in this, but I’m sort of simplifying the patterning of form. And it’s all simultaneous. So I’m speaking about it descriptively, from a linear perspective, so that we hear it, one word after the other, but actually, it’s all done. And then we just witnessed that or explore it from within that already done, as you might say. So that process of experiencing then shows up as the patterning of conscious awareness in such a way that it seems to progressively condensate within itself condensate into the forms and phenomena that we perceive that it perceives as the world which is essentially just a projection of its own potential as actualized formation within itself. And right now, this conversation is an expression of that intelligence, which some are able to recognize as being governed by laws of nature or aspects of creativity, creative aspects of intelligence.

Rick Archer: And so what you’re saying here, that it’s possible to actually trace, you know, talk about the Big Bang and how creation emerges and gets complete, increasingly complex and diversified in that process. But what you’re saying, as I understand it, pertains to a continuous thing. That’s, that’s happening all the time right now. Yes. There’s this sort of sequential, spontaneous symmetry breaking from the unmanifest unified wholeness to into greater and greater apparent diversity.

Andrew Hewson: So this, this interview is an expression of creation. So right now, these words emerging, this is creation expressing itself as these words, yeah. And what you referred to before about who’s doing what and to whom, within this presentation, of self experiencing conscious awareness, we see the apparent dominance of content and form arise, that’s where a limited self definition, within the conscious awareness shows up. And from the basis of that limited self definition, there seems to be personal autonomy, there seems to be a sense of fragmentation, and then that point of apparent fragmentation, feeling that it is the doer of actions and the thinker of thoughts begins to accrue impressions. The acumen of this imprint these impressions, is what we know is karma. And then these impressions continually sort of play out on a loop, and are either seeking to re impress or to resolve depending on the status of the point. Yes.

Rick Archer: The, um, and so I like your use of the word non dual devotion, and, and you know, the use of the word divine and so on. Because sometimes when teachers talk about non duality and stuff, it has this sort of dry, plain vanilla connotation to it. And there’s no sort of appreciation or recognition of the intelligence that is so obviously, involved in this whole process. And so I know you have kind of a devotional background in terms of things you’ve done in your life. And I think, you know, the, the greatest spiritual teachers throughout history, have heard a similar orientation, Shankara, Nisargadatta, Ramadan and so on. They don’t just hammer away, there’s nothing nothing ever happened. And they may say that, but in the next breath, they may talk about the sort of the, the sort of infinite creative intelligence that is orchestrating the whole universe. Yes. And there’s no contradiction between those two ways of looking at it.

Andrew Hewson: Correct? Yeah, this has a lot to do with the recognition of reality which there are degrees of realisation we could say, or stages of enlightenment. And depending upon the stage, whether it’s more predominantly masculine and its nature or feminine in nature, which just refers to the subjectivity and not to the, to the human form, then we’re going to see some qualitative variation in the way in which it shows up and on the masculine side of things, the tendencies to deal within the realm of negation and Talking about things being unreal appearances, seeing them as being unreal, the emphasis is on the changeless, silent background reality of pure awareness. And sometimes the source of awareness as the attribute is that notice.

Rick Archer: They call it beautiful shunyata.

Andrew Hewson: So this side of things is very valid. And it’s it’s beautiful, but at the same time, it’s only half the story. So we have to have a recognition of a full spectrum of development in order for one side of things to be properly understood. And if we feel that that side is all there is which it’s natural to feel that way, because each subjective recognition of the field of subjectivity feels subjectively absolute, including egoic dominance for many human beings. If you said, Do you know that you’re, you’re not actually what you take yourself to be? They’re like, ah, yeah, right. You’re a joke, you know, this is. So that’s just the way subjectivity is. And I feel that one thing that I would love to explore more in the coming months and years is the opportunity for post liberation, devotion, and those that are in, in those more masculine statuses of the recognition of reality, to start to move into a flow of grace, which allows for a more comprehensive unfoldment.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s nice. And there isn’t any reason is there? Why one couldn’t have? I mean, you talked a bit about the masculine, the nothing ever happened. perspective on it. But then you didn’t really elaborate as much on the feminine. But there isn’t any reason why one couldn’t have both in fullness in a balanced way. Is there?

Andrew Hewson: No, of course not, actually, that’d be the ideal. One of the yes, the ideal, one of the major concepts I work with is something I call the sacred marriage. So essentially, there’s two aspects of the self, I refer to them as pure awareness and conscious presence. So pure awareness is this changeless silent dimensionless. Seeing that is right here, at the same time, it is non local. Yeah. And the other aspect is this full, vibrant, cogent, conscious presence, which is the dynamic flow that is appearing as the emergence of these words. And so initially, there appears to be a distinction between these two, and this is what I call the primary distinction. And that’s the distinction between the masculine and the feminine aspects of the self. So essentially, when one is, in the midst of this grace unfoldment, of recognizing their reality as infinity, there is going to be something I call aspectual dominance, meaning that we’re going to either see a dominance of the feminine aspect, or dominance of the masculine aspect, this doesn’t mean that both cannot be recognized simultaneously, oftentimes, in initial, in an initial shift in identity, or in just basic field recognition. But that there’s going one of them is going to be the primary point of reference, we might say, even though it’s a field, yes, this field right here, so.

Rick Archer: So just elaborate a bit more before. As part of this, what you’re saying, you emphasize that you explain in some detail, the orientation of the masculine dominance, which I think is probably the more common thing, in today’s spiritual millio. How would you describe someone who is has predominantly feminine orientation?

Andrew Hewson: The feminine aspect is characterized by vibrancy, fullness, and dynamism. It is the aliveness that we see expressing as the intelligence patterning as the forms of the world. The silent seeing of the masculine is the contrast, which allows for the dimensionality of the feminine, to be perceived from the dimensionless. So there’s this very, very subtle and separable contrast that is present. When we look at three dimensions, we see that it is the dimension list that’s able to see these three dimensions that it’s not the three dimensional that sees that three dimensional, but that which does not have dimensions. And so this is the the masculine aspect, the feminine aspect, oftentimes as well as characterized by the heart, but I do kind of look at devotion as more of a binding principle and there’s levels of that as well. So there can be feminine dominance without a large flow of devotion. It just depends on the case but the feminine aspect has a lot to do with healing, what I refer to as transmutation, which is essentially The resolution of unresolved energetic condensation that has arisen through the illusion of separation. So as that energy is attentively allowed, what we see is sort of a conversion from an apparently fragmented state into a more expanded, awakened enlivened status of fluffy, vibrant fullness as the field. And that is also blissful. So the feminine, is characterized by bliss and the masculine by peace, I would say.

Rick Archer: So would you say that perhaps examples of the feminine and contemporary spirituality might be sacred dance and relationship work and ceremonial stuff and, and that whole kind of thing, but without a lot of emphasis on recognition of the sort of unmanifest value?

Andrew Hewson: Well, it just depends because these words like manifest and unmanifest, sort of shift as we move through the stages. So initially, like form could be said to be manifest. But then, actually, when we move into a source condition, the light of conscious awareness is manifest, and then the source is unmanifest. So we move from looking at field form, in the realm of manifest and manifest to looking at field field and on manifest manifest, but that’s a whole different subject, what you’re referring to is, as far as these various areas of spiritual expression, I would say, yes, they do have more of a feminine quality to them. But at the same time, it doesn’t necessarily point to the recognition of the feminine aspect of this field. So I am always speaking about this field and pointing to the, to the truth of this underlying light that is experiencing itself, because that is what took place here. And that is what feels most relevant for everyone. And the various practices and expressions of that are, of course, included. But at the same time, the direct resonance with this aspect of the self is what I feel to be most important.

Rick Archer: So you keep tying everything back to the source or the self, you you would say that that has to be the foundation of everything else. Right?

Andrew Hewson: I would say that, yes, that is a foundational recognition and realization. And then upon that foundation, well, let me perhaps backtrack there and say that devotion can be the foundation. And then on the foundation of devotion, self realization, will, in a way, express itself in alignment with that foundation, express itself in alignment with that flow of devotion. That’s interesting.

Rick Archer: In your discussion, I think this may have come up in your discussions with David Buckland, which are on your website, on your YouTube channel. But um, from, you know, his background and mine, also, the teaching was always that self realization tends to precede any significant degree of devotional development, because it’s sort of foundational requirement for deep appreciation, unless you know who you are, you can’t really know what anything else is. So once you’ve sort of known what you are, then you begin to naturally appreciate the relative creation more and more, and then that begins to stir up waves of devotion. But you just said the motion could actually be could you actually proceed Self Realization and be an impetus to

Andrew Hewson: it? That’s true, yes, what you’re referring to as far as maharishi’s teaching is also accurate because it’s, it’s just describing a new level of devotion, or a different, a higher, deeper expression of devotion. But devotion is very, very pure, and I consider it to be a gift of our divinity to itself. And so, when that seed of devotion sprouts and begins to grow, it really takes over every fiber of what the human being is. And as long as it doesn’t become a new identity that’s used to set up separation. It is something that is drawing a recognition of reality to itself, so it naturally disassembles the illusion of separation by virtue of the flow of the heart.

Rick Archer: And give us let’s talk about devotion some more while we’re at it. And actually, we’re gonna talk a lot more because you have a whole thing about the four pillars of non dual devotion different we can talk about those. But give us some examples of devotion. You’re talking about devotion to God devotion to a guru devotion to a partner. You know, and what, what would be the subjective nature of that devotion The subjective experience of it, or perhaps there could be a great many of them, but so

Andrew Hewson: go with that. Okay, beautiful. Yeah. So the way in which it initially showed up here was actually devotion to the formless, which was aided by the recognition of the field or the presence of God, as it was referred to at that time. But at the same time, there still seem to be a separate experiencer of that named Andrew, that was in place. And so from the perspective of Andrew, essentially, Andrew was just being brought to his knees with this intense love for the grace of divinity. And everything that had shone forth. And so oftentimes, Andrew would be on bathroom floors, in restaurants, and a different jobs just praying and thanking divinity for everything that was being revealed. And this was from a space of egoic dominance, like I said, there was field recognition, but it was still egoic dominance. So devotion to God can mean lots of different things. And it can be the God that we see reflected back through something like you said, a teacher or a partner. But it can also be to the own immediacy of our subjectivity, to recognize that this existence that is right here is much more than it appears to be in to turn into that existence with a sincere and full heart is very powerful. And so that’s what I typically point. Those that are coming to our meetings towards, is that level of devotional recognition, the self to itself.

Rick Archer: So when you say there was devotion to the field, was, was there the sense that there’s this all pervading field and you said, at that point, it was still Andrew being devoted to the field, not necessarily recognizing that he is the field. But you know, this sort of, you felt like there, there was this all pervading all permeating field of intelligence or something that just inspired waves of devotion in you. Is that a fair synopsis?

Andrew Hewson: Well, the devotion wasn’t so strategic, or directed in that sense, it’s very spontaneous, and sort of like an overflowing of fullness. And it was sells

Rick Archer: as actual love and you. Yeah, our deep,

Andrew Hewson: deep sense of love. Yeah. And that love just kept becoming so intense, more and more intense, more and more intense and, and it began to include all of the various forms of life like the trees and the flowers and other human beings, just the expression of divinity as creation.

Rick Archer: Ask because it’s a little hard to be devoted to an abstract field that I was going to ask, you know, did you find yourself wanting to or or spontaneously, feeling devotion for forms? Well, of some sort, as expression, the field.

Andrew Hewson: One thing that I often speak about is devotion to truth. So I would say that really the most accurate description was devotion to truth, which is synonymous with divinity. And from the perspective of Andrew who seemed to live most of his life in self delusion, and lies, truth became more important than breathing. So expression of that Grace brought this immense devotion to truth. And that was truth on the practical level, but it also intruded included truth on the level of reality truth on the level of divinity and as that began to become fuller and fuller and really just take over and in a way replace what Andrew previously had seemed to be then the recognition of that which was flowing in love towards itself began to shine through the various forms and phenomena. So, the light began to reveal itself as primitive and emanating from all of the various forms and phenomena of this plane of existence.

Rick Archer: Nice. So in other words, everything is a conduit for the light. Yeah, everything is a transmitter receiver sort of the field.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah. When we when we start to see the light of ourselves We all start to see it everywhere because it is everywhere. It’s not that it’s here and not there. It’s all inclusive.

Rick Archer: Yeah. The term divinity, of course, is closely related to the word God, what is your sense of what God is?

Andrew Hewson: It would be accurate to say that God is this now, it would be accurate. The source and essence of this expression of experiencing, and the truth of I, the truth of your eye, my eye, the one eye, that shows up in each and every human being

Rick Archer: good, it’s nice description, definition. And then you say that, you know, everything began to shine with the light of the self, I think you put it something like that. Was there an appreciation is there I mean, there must be just an appreciation of I mean, this, you know, self again, can have kind of a non qualitative connotation of just like pure light, or something. But then there’s also this, this incredible display of intelligence, I mean, a single cell and your finger is more complex than the city of Tokyo, and it’s able to repair and replicate itself. So and that the whole universe is is just chock a block with similar displays of intelligence in every tiny little, iota.

Andrew Hewson: Beautiful point, right. And this just brings us back to those two aspects I was talking about earlier, the self has two aspects, both the masculine and the feminine, in the fullness of the self, includes what I refer to as the marriage of these two aspects. So I call it the sacred marriage, which is poetic, but it also is accurate, in the sense that the distinction between the masculine and the feminine, is resolved. So that sense of there being this changeless, silence, seeing and then there being this fluffy, full, vibrant, knowing or self observing self consciousness, the sense of those things being distinct is resolved. So that’s where the terminology I use conscious awareness comes into play, because it’s not just awareness. And it’s not just conscious presence, but it’s conscious awareness. Conscious awareness.

Rick Archer: Yeah. My friend, Tim freak, who’s been on that gap a few times is, is always asking when he does his part, yes. What is this? You know, it’s like, well, what is this thing we’re living? And another? I think a related question we could ask is, why is this? So we’ve dwelt a bit on what it is in terms of the play of divinity? Would you have an answer to the why question?

Andrew Hewson: Well, I don’t typically answer why questions. But

Rick Archer: it’s like, why would the creation, you know, in the first place,

Andrew Hewson: we could say accurately, that it hasn’t emerged in the first place. That is a that is actually a direct subjective recognition of reality. When we move into a source condition, we realize that there is no creation, and there never has been. And that actually even the self is apparent. That’s a that’s a certain recognition of reality. But if we look at it from the same perspective of a play, I think that that is a beautiful way of understanding it. I like to look at it as a dream of divinity or a whim, amusing of the Divine. And this has been spoken about in some of the great traditions as well. And this whim or this musing, is the dream within the mind of God within the mind of divinity, which is your mind, actually. So, why silence. Yeah. And then

Rick Archer: experience of happiness, maybe,

Andrew Hewson: maybe, that that that is one perspective. And I think that that’s a very healthy perspective to have. I think one way that we could contextualize it is for the sake of the perfection of love, even though love is already perfected. It projects this apparent absence within its own mind, and then progressively appears to return into the recognition of that perfection, which has always been the case and then express that within the apparent absence.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, if you’re lying in the bathtub, you’ve been lying there for a while. You may not want notice the warm For the water, but if you slosh around a little bit, then it starts to feel warm. So, you know, perhaps the universe’s Gods sloshing around in order to enjoy the warmth and the joy and the play. Beautiful. Couple of questions came in, let me hit you with these. Here’s one on. Okay. This is from Andrea in Louisiana asking, What do you suggest for people that are stuck with their addictions? And facing their own awakening? How does one step out of that state and become the person they are meant to be without having to hit bottom or end up in jail to break those chains.

Andrew Hewson: There are many people that go to jail and have all kinds of tragic things happen and they never hit bottom. So bottom does not mean some apparent happening in the experience. These can be just externalized representations of what is taking place on a deeply internal level, to be asking a question like this already reveals some level of willingness and some some drawing towards a new way of being and a new way of seeing. So I feel that the the application of basic spiritual principles and the cultivation of an environment which is conducive to those is the first step to be taken. Yeah. And once that is in place, it’s very important that we examine the areas of our experience which have not been examined, this could be areas of anger, mistrust, a sense of abuse or things that we felt that we have done wrong, so on and so forth. All of those areas of human experience, which are typically overlooked or brushed to the side, not really dealt into, to look at that which has been considered dark within our life. And this can be something that is challenging for many. So I do suggest having some level of support and guidance there, as this process is taking place.

Rick Archer: Like a teacher or therapist or something,

Andrew Hewson: something along those lines, I haven’t seen too much success with therapy, to in the experience, which I’ve had, I’ve seen a lot of therapeutic interactions appear to take place in family and perhaps in some friends as well. And I haven’t seen a lot of success when it is a spiritual craving are a spiritual calling, meaning that nothing short of tasting spiritual reality is going to satiate the hunger that is present within the individual. And whatever seems to be going on on the level of struggle or addiction is really not going to stop, it’s not going to be quelled, and till we taste that living water of this field. On some level.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I’ve interviewed a bunch of therapists who are also appreciative of the deeper spiritual dimensions. And I think that’s the kind of therapist one might need if, if, if one wants to overcome addictions and yet appreciate spirituality. And otherwise, if the therapist, you know, is an atheist or materialist or something, they just don’t think there is any spiritual dimension and how can they help you. Now, now, there’s, there’s a categorical index on that gap where you can look up therapists find a bunch. Another question came in from Rajiv in India, who asks, Can spirituality be seen as an integrated shift in the inner attitude of a person from having many beliefs, to having no beliefs?

Andrew Hewson: I would say that that could be a part of it or a certain phase, but that’s not the complete picture. If we are bound to limited beliefs, then it’s often helpful to witness the resolution of those limited beliefs. And, and not necessarily to pick up new ones. But we step into a realm of subjective experience or recognition, which is certain and undoubtable. And that is really what it’s all about, is stepping into that certainty of the recognition of what our own conscious awareness actually is the truth that we are divine.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s good. I always say that AI it’s good to take beliefs as hypotheses and take a scientific attitude. They give you a framework for investigation. But A scientist doesn’t believe his hypothesis like in some adamant way. He thinks, Okay, well, this is this has potential, I’ll explore it, and maybe I’ll be wrong, or maybe it’ll pan out. But, you know, the whole idea is not just to cling to a belief of it, the idea is to get to experiential verification of it. And that applies for spirituality as well. Yes. Okay, so here’s something you said on your website, which kind of jumped out at me, said, today we see what appears to be a stirring within conscious awareness, the rising up the rising of an evolutionary wave, which promises opportunity and transcendence for an ever increasing portion of the population. However, with this promising progression, we also see an increase in error and limited understanding being presented in the spiritual marketplace. An expansive array of choices and options, leaves the sincere spiritual aspirant with a growing need for wisdom, wisdom and discernment. When treading the path of spiritual evolution. And of course, I’m guilty of contributing to this having interviewed 560 people, giving people a lot of choices. But, you know, my, my attitude is different people resonate with different people. And so you kind of plug into you know, what resonates for you. So, you know, what do you see in terms of the stirring that seems to be taking place and say a little bit more about the increase in error and limited understanding that you referred to? Yeah,

Andrew Hewson: the stirring is essentially, the blossoming forth of potential that is just been lying, dormant waiting, ripening, we might say, and it is comprised of this field, are realizing itself through what appears to be a greater number of nervous systems, then is present in our typically recorded what we refer to as our recorded his history typically. Yeah. And with that, taking place, we also see an increase in error and limited understanding, because oftentimes, or what does appear to arise is that there are certain recognitions of reality which are not fully developed, that then begin speaking about themselves from that space. And saying that this is the way and this is really the the true way. And that other ways perhaps, are inaccurate. And this can be, we see it a lot on the masculine side of things, particularly when within the circles of so called non duality. But we also can see it on the side of channeling then different interactions with aliens and things like different things, there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t suggest it for anyone. But it’s important that we have some grounds in recognizing that what has been at the core of all of the great traditions is still here. And that’s what’s blossoming forth. It’s not, we’re not rewriting spiritual history or making something, you know, creating something new. And I see that sometimes as well. It’s like, some of the more negation bakes based approaches, which are really not true negation. They’re more of a naive form of negation, that are overly focused on the dismissal of the person. There’s an attempt basically, to say that all of the great wisdom traditions are nonsense. That’s, it sounds like to me sometimes. And I think that that is a huge error. But it’s also very seductive, because there are those that are looking for a quick fix. And it becomes a way of not being accountable. So many human beings have a deep unconscious fear of God, punishing God or some something, what’s going to happen after death, what’s going to happen to me or even karma? And this presentation of non duality as being just simply this, you know, nobody here kind of a thing becomes a way to not be accountable for one’s life, and what has unfolded, and because there is no life and there is no and those kinds of things. So, you know, I had a little bit of a spiritual warrior kind of thing with this at one point and was, but by grace that’s been resolved. So I see where it’s coming from, and it’s a part of the broader context like we were talking about earlier, but I do feel that it’s important that we’re able to discuss these things openly. And see that it’s and then we also see, I’ll go ahead and say this as well, sometimes there’s an anger towards enlightenment or the idea of enlightenment, because it’s not what we were told it was going to be right. And basically, what this points to is that we feel like just recognizing that there isn’t a separate individual is enlightenment, and it’s not. And then when we feel that way, there may not even be any field recognition, which is what I refer to as the initial shift into context is, is where the field clearly recognizes itself is not an experience is not in time, it does not have a beginning, and it does not have an ending, the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states appear to cyclically unfold within the timeless feel that you’ve recognized yourself to be. And this is what we call authentic shift and identity. Yeah. But when we’re just basing everything on that recognition of there not being someone here, it can become very confusing. And there can be some anger that’s present there. Because it’s like, oh, this enlightened, enlightenment thing is a lie. You know, bliss is a lie. Love is a lie, or whatever. And it’s just not the case, bliss is not alive, bliss is really very much here. And it becomes very intense and progressively. So as we move through the, my experience has been an ascending trend since the since the apparent beginning, which is not a beginning. So maybe I’ll stop there. I didn’t say too much.

Rick Archer: I said a lot. That was a really good rap. And I, you know, I could name names, as you were speaking of people whom I’ve interviewed who speak that way about, there’s no one here. And therefore, they kind of extrapolate from that assumption to all kinds of conclusions, which, which I would say are erroneous. And like you said, they would probably discount and bliss as being something irrelevant. Some of them will discount the very possibility of reincarnation, because if there’s no one here, then who’s going to reincarnate, they there’s a tendency to dismiss spiritual traditions, like he said, and, and that can also include a tendency to the Smith, the splits any kind of ethical considerations, you know, because obviously, if there’s no one doing anything, then this body can do whatever it wants, and there’s no consequences. And really, I’m not doing it, and there’s no, there’s no free will. And it’s all, you know, it’s all sort of conditioning and who knows what. So you can get yourself really tangled up in what I would consider to be sidetracks when you think that way, and, and, you know, people have been thinking about this stuff for 1000s of years, and actually, they might have figured some things out. So it might not be a bad idea to refer back to some of those traditional understandings, you know, we can put we can put them in new terminology and try to integrate them with modern science and modern culture and all that. But some of these, these old dudes have actually come up with some pretty good stuff. Yeah. And I think it’s important, because I mean, I don’t know about you, but I definitely have a feeling of compassion for everybody out there who is seeking. And, you know, they can stumble into this meeting, or get hooked up with that teacher. And next thing, you know, they’ve, they’re, they’ve lost all their money, or they’re getting sexually, you know, mistreated, or all kinds of nasty stuff has happened in contemporary spirituality, which and in many cases, then they then become completely disillusioned and lose all interest in it, which I think is a real real shame.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, one thing I often talk about is moving from seeking to devotion. And it’s just a simple shift. From a lack based perspective, where we’re looking, looking, looking for something to having already found it with that commitment with that devotion with that sincere love of truth. And now we’re coming from a space that’s full, yet it’s always hungry, it’s always hungry for more yet it’s always full within itself. And it’s such a beautiful way of being that oftentimes in some of the some of the ancient traditions arising from the Indian subcontinent, we saw that even those that were in very advanced stages oftentimes took up devotion as a form of Lieblick play. And this is a whole different subject, which I’ll get

Rick Archer: into. Well, before we do, I just want to ask you, does one have a choice to switch from that seeking mode to the kind of, you know, hungry fullness? Or does it just sort of happen once enough, fullness has blossomed in one’s heart in one’s awareness that you’ve, you might, even in retrospect, realize why, you know, I’m not kind of craving and seeking like I used to, and yet I’m still exploring and interested and, you know, continuing to develop.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, I’d like to feel and see that everyone has that seed in their heart, which is really just the one heart appearing individuated within itself, and that when that seed is placed in moist soil, and is given the proper sunlight and the right amount of water, then it will sprout. So oftentimes, what that means is just being exposed some a new another option, you know, so many feel that this is the, this is the option, you know, and just having the grace of being able to hear that there is another possibility, there is another way you can begin to cultivate the sprouting of that seed. And once it sprouts, it’s going to grow. And once it grows, it’s going to take over, and once it takes over, then we become devotion. It’s not like, I as so and so I’m devoted. That’s just what we are, we are that we are the flow of devotion.

Rick Archer: Yeah. But you’re a little bit remarkable in a way. I mean, your story is a little bit remarkable having this shift in a jail cell. But you know, a lot of people have been on the path for years or decades. And they probably, they’re probably people listening to this, who feel this way, they don’t feel like it has been as it is fruit defied to the extent that it has for you. They might be thinking, I’ve been meditating so long, or I’ve been seeking and reading all these teachers, and yet, I just sort of still feel like a lack or frustration or something. You know, so what would you say to those people?

Andrew Hewson: Well, I would say that today is a new day, you know, if we can let go of that spiritual history, I know, it’s tough sometimes when we, you know, we walk around with all of the years of meditation, the books and the teachers, and whatever it is, but when we’re able to become like, children, you know, and, and become like spiritual children, that’s really the key. And we can actually ask for that we can ask to be made like a child again, and to see through those fresh eyes, and to have that fresh, open heart. And you know, nothing is lost. There are no accidents, it’s not a matter of it’s not a matter of earning something through perseverance. It’s a matter of receiving a gift that is readily available to any human being who hears the call. And that gift is right here. It’s right here. It’s it’s ready to be open.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you can use your phone knock and the door shall be opened. I really think there’s something to that. There’s just like, just the just the initial. I mean, just the initial sort of intention. There must be something more helped me help me find it. What is it? I know that I know it’s things start to happen.

Andrew Hewson: Yes, yes.

Rick Archer: Beautiful. Yeah. So how do you actually work with people, we, we have a couple of your graphics that you sent me. And we have this four pillars of non dual devotion. And so let’s say somebody starts working with you. What do they do? Do they okay, they practice things, they just listen to you talk. I mean, what happens?

Andrew Hewson: Well, there’s essentially two styles of teaching or speaking. One style is what I refer to as leading. And this is where the self speaks to itself. Directly. And there is a direct resonance within the field. So the intellect becomes rather useless. It’s, it’s not within the realm of application. It’s not within the realm of mental understanding. It’s a direct resting in that throb that is arising and expressing itself as the self speaking to itself as the field directly pointing to itself within its own infinity. So that’s one aspect. So

Rick Archer: you say that people get on a webinar with you and they just kind of relax and settle in and listen to you speak and, and then that’s what is happening, what you just described. Yes,

Andrew Hewson: yes, that’s one part of a webinar typically are nowadays we’re starting to delineate where that is and where the rest is. The other side of it is, is more of an explanatory side of teaching. Yeah. Where a certain theme or topic is explored and explained and it has a little bit more of a practical flavor to it. And there we see the intellect can begin to serve devotion, in understanding. And also we see application of certain spiritual expressions begin to become relevant. And that’s where the four pillars comes into play. That’s what I speak of, as observation, contemplative, supplication, transmutation, and service. Now, observation is a given. So it’s not something that we do, it’s not we don’t, we don’t start observing better or do something to observe, it’s more of a matter of noticing that observing is what we know of experience, even from a space of egoic dominance, that what we know of human life or human experience is that it’s being observed. Yeah, whether it’s by me or by an infinite field. It’s still being observed. Now. I would say that during this wave that is appearing with unconscious awareness that you mentioned earlier, right now wave

Rick Archer: of around the world of all the people waking up. Yeah, yes, yes.

Andrew Hewson: And just the stirring, the stirring, that many more have acts. The simply recognizing that there’s an aspect of their experience, which is observing the part of their experience, which feels like it’s listening to these words. So there’s the listening, there’s the listening to these words, but then there’s also an aspect of our experience, which is able to observe the sense of the listener. Yeah. And that is online for many human beings right now, whether for many human beings who don’t have any kind of spiritual background don’t have any kind of spiritual understanding, it can be as simple as just pointing out that this is here. Now, that doesn’t mean that there’s a shift in identity, it doesn’t mean that we start, we recognize it, that’s an infinite field. And that’s ourself, that, of course, may come later. But having the basic willingness to stop looking out there, at everything and start turning back towards the point of experiencing the point value of experiencing so now I’m observing Andrew, going to school I’m observing Andrew eating of observing Andrew talking with someone I’m observing the attractions that arise in Andrew, I’m observing the aversions that arise in Andrew I’m observing the mental activity that’s arising,

Rick Archer: are you alluding to the the idea of witnessing some people there’s a,

Andrew Hewson: there’s a little distinction, I use it differently than is typically used. So I classify observing and witnessing differently, I, I refer to observing as the dynamic feminine aspect, and then witnessing as the changeless masculine aspect. So oftentimes, you’ll hear someone talking about a witness to the witness. And what they’re referring to is basically this primary distinction that I spoke about earlier, which is the the distinction between conscious presence and pure awareness, I refer to the conscious presence aspect as this level of more dynamically operative observation, and the pure awareness aspect as the static witnessing, or silent seer of actually even the field of self observing.

Rick Archer: So in other words, conscious presence is more along the lines of something that you would consciously intend to do. Whereas witnessing is not something you do but something you are, it’s more like a just a condition of deep silence that that continues that abides, regardless of whatever’s going on in the active fields of life.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, so it seems that right is that is that is accurate, that there’s more of a dynamic, intentional, devotional presence of observation that can begin to take place in the midst of activity or as that sort of what appears at first to be a second party during the activity of, of, of Andrew or whoever it might be, you know, I’m just speaking from from a limited understanding there. And then there’s also the silent seeing or the pure changeless awareness or witnessing of that, dynamically flowing, observing. So, we often see with long term meditators like those that come from the Transcendental Meditation movement, there is a natural shift into that more silent masculine aspect of witnessing first. Here I tend to emphasize more of a transmutate of approach, which involves the conversion of those latent energetic condensations into a full, lively, blissful presence through attentively allowing them as they arise and A devotional approach. And in the midst of that devotional transmutate, IV flow, this level of observation is often what comes online first. And this also is relevant in the context of whether or not a shift into the recognition of reality and infinity takes place with either a masculine dominant or a feminine dominant. So if we culture the silent change was aspect more than we’re going to see typically, that that’s the aspect where the shift predominantly falls into or the shift takes place into that aspect of the self. But here, and the students that I’ve been working with, actually, we’ve seen predominantly feminine aspect shifts, which means that the vibrant fullness of the field of conscious presence is recognizing itself. And then after that, the silent seeing or the pure dimensionless awareness, which could be seen as like the nectar of that vibrant, full presence is recognizing itself.

Rick Archer: Let me bounce it back to you and see if I’ve got this right. So in my own experience, there’s, you know, this kind of unperturbed bubble silence that just pervades, or abides no matter what’s going on, no matter how crazy things may get. And then one thing I’ve found over the years is that there’s a great value in a sort of a gentle self scrutiny. So so that one is not just sort of doing whatever it comes to mind. But but sort of applying a real kind of subtle form of discrimination in each moment, without without getting all manipulative about it. But just as a sort of picking up as it were on the most delicate impulses of thought, and, and just sort of, you know, either checking them, or are allowing them or slightly redirecting them, or something just kind of steering the ship from, from that quiet level. And if one neglects to do that, then one can sort of go off the beam quite a bit, even if there’s that silent witness. And that can cause all kinds of problems in one’s relative life. So, so anyway, that’s that’s how I would express it. Is that what you were saying?

Andrew Hewson: Yes, yes, of course. And actually, just to kind of piggyback off what you were just pointing to, if we fail to really milk or extract all of that material that’s arising, we’re basically just walking over a field that’s full of gold and, and letting it stay there. We’re not, we’re not harvesting the nutritional value out of all of the the content and form that’s arising and within each and every appearance of the residue of the illusion of separation there is contained a potential and an opportunity for resolution. Resolution means more fullness, at least experientially. And it means greater clarity. It means greater discernment. It means less obscuration within our capacity to intelligently operate in the world and to express or for that fullness to express through us. That’s actually the way that it is we don’t express anything as individuals, necessarily. But for that one reality that we are to express through us. That capacity becomes clearer and clearer and fuller and fuller, and more enlivened through the resolution of all that seems to be unresolved. And that includes all of the hurts, habits, hang ups, tendencies, everything within our experience. That is a residue of taking ourselves to be only the functioning of the body and the mind has within it a hidden potential to serve to become an offering on the the puja tray, you might say, at the feet of God.

Rick Archer: Nice. Were you an English major here? You have a way with words?

Andrew Hewson: Actually, I only have a GED. So I didn’t even graduate from high school.

Rick Archer: Yeah, neither did I. And then I got a GED. And then I got some college on top of that ended up with I didn’t

Andrew Hewson: go to college. Actually, it was interesting, because I was in dynamic subjectivity at the time, which is a certain recognition of reality. So that was really blissful. And but I had better grades that either even though the linear, the linear processing was sort of disabled, you might say, to a certain degree, there were better grades than I had since the sixth grade. And yeah, that’s pretty good.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I sometimes think in my next life, I want to you know, I would like to go through high school in my current state of consciousness, rather than the one I was in cuz that was sort of a joke. But anyway, I sidetracked this because you said something beautiful there, and I wanted to comment on it. Oh, yeah. So were you kind of saying that? Because Kurt, because it’s all divinity, and every, every little grain of sand and blade of grass and Mack truck and everything that happens in the world is the play of divinity, that there is evolutionary potential in every single experience. And like you said, walking across the field of gold, but being oblivious to it, if we don’t recognize that, then we just blunder through life and perhaps think that everything is stacked against us. But if we do appreciate that, then then every little thing they get into the habit of Alright, what’s the lesson here? What’s the evolutionary potential in this, you know, there’s sort of like you the world as your guru is talking to you constantly.

Andrew Hewson: Exactly, yes, this is the reflective intelligence of the self, this one field, this reflects back consistently, this immense amount of evolutionary potential and opportunity, and all those things within our experience that we have deemed to be unspiritual through conditioning actually, our gyms just waiting to be uncovered and polished and, you know, really seen for what they are not that the the content itself somehow is romanticized or glorified and, and then declared to be spiritual, as some sort of attempt to reconcile an inner dichotomy, but that we actually are able to discern something as it is and not as it appears to be. And through discerning it as it is through attentively allowing the energy that appears to be behind all that mental activity, the emotional fluctuations are reflections, then what we’re doing is we’re witnessing the, the resurrection of life from taking itself to be this physical, dead material, chunky, blocky, kind of whatever, into a fluid flowing field of bliss that is just experiencing itself. And this is something that we live in everyday life, we are an infinite field in everyday life, it’s not an experience that goes like it stays here it is what you are, it’s what we are.

Rick Archer: There was a famous article by a guy named Thomas Nagel entitled, what what is it like to be a bat. And I was reminded of that, when you said that we experience things as they are, rather than, you know, what we think they are some such thing. But then again, you know, I mean, human perception. Even in terms of visual perception, I’ve said this before on the show, but it’s a good example, if you took the entire electromagnetic spectrum, which includes extra X rays, and gamma rays, and all kinds of things in addition to visible light, and made it the length of the Mississippi River, then the human visual perception would be some little few centimeters somewhere around Hannibal, Missouri. You know, so, and that’s just visual perception. So there’s so many dimensions and realities, and so on and so forth, that we, that we don’t ordinarily experience and would not want to experience them all. It would be too overwhelming. So when you say we experience things as they are, rather than what they we believe them to be or something, what do you mean exactly given the limitations of our perceptual ability?

Andrew Hewson: Well, what I mean is that we taste directly the essential nature, the essential value, and then also on the level of the appearance, we understand how that appearance has come to be. And we also understand its role or place within the evolutionary spectrum. And so therefore, it moves out of the realm of being right or wrong, good or bad. And we see it from the larger broader perspective, that is actually our own infinite field of divine vision.

Rick Archer: So in other words, we rather than experience every little molecule and atom and you know, bacteria or whatever in something, which would be too much information, we experienced the essential nature of things and you know, leave the details to God but we experience the we see things as the self which is our essential nature and their essential nature. So that’s what your

Andrew Hewson: Yes First we see things as the self, actually, more accurately, the self sees everything as itself. Then we there’s the realization that actually it is pure divinity so that the self is the light of divinity. And this light is non different from its source. The light of the sun is not different from the sun and all of the formations in the appearances that are arising within this slide are actually expressions of that divinity. So what we see and directly recognize and realize, as an experiential or rather non experiential reality, I guess, from a certain perspective, it just depends. Is that this is all divinity appearing. Expressed in measurement. Yeah. And cognizing itself within the realm of sensory perception.

Rick Archer: Good. Okay. Here’s a question. This one is a little bit speculative. In fact, that’s what the questioner says, See what you can do with this one? This is Wesley from Fairfield must be Fairfield Iowa, which is where I am. Wesley is another speculative why question of all possible universes of all possible configurations. Why this one? In other words, why IRS White Houses by machine guns, grass football, and most important, why zebras, I find it amazing to compare the infinite unmanifest potential to the actual appearance of forums in this dimension. It seems none of this had to be and yet amazingly, here, it is a field of all possibilities.

Andrew Hewson: Yes, it’s a it’s something that must be it’s a question that must be answered through realization. Yeah. the why question will disappear when we see clearly. And things will make sense not in the intellectual linear understanding of the term, but they will make sense through our own recognition that this is all apparent, and at the same time, apparently apparent, meaning that what we’re talking about when we refer to the perceptual presentation of formation, isn’t actually here in the way that it seems to be. And that’s not really something that we can comprehend until we are that.

Rick Archer: Good. I was just a Wesleyan fact that I, the other day, I started building a quotes, pit section on that gap. Because all the I keep getting all these great quotes from people. And then I forget them. So I’m starting to put them online. So if you go into the resources menu on that gap, and down to quotes, and then you’ll see all this pop out of quotes, just, I’m just beginning as work in progress, but go down to something called the Kabali. On in that list of quotes, and you’ll see a really cool description of the universe from the perspective of this ancient tradition, or some kind of, I don’t know, mystical, ancient mystical Greek tradition or something. It gives you kind of mind blowing in terms of, you know, all the different levels of creation and all the different worlds of possibility that exists. Who was it Einstein said something like, you know, the creation is not only more marvelous than we can imagine, than we imagined, but it’s more marvelous than we can imagine. You know, so there’s just such, I mean, think of all your favorite science fiction, movies, and so on. And imagine what there might be out there in this vast universe in terms of all the possibilities, and even on this earth, you know, you can kind of see God’s handiwork in terms of loving, variety, and even humor. Some animals are so funny the way they’re designed, and, and life to sort of springing up in even the most inhospitable places, like thermal vents at the bottom of the ocean, you know what you’re spewing sulfuric acid, and yet, there’s some kind of life living there. So you know, extrapolate out to all the trillions of galaxies and the trip to gazillion stars within all those galaxies. And imagine the diversity of this, this creation that we live in. It’s really mind boggling.

Andrew Hewson: It is, yeah. And that’s just one one universe. Yeah, exactly. multiverse and there’s an infinite number of those as well. So

Rick Archer: I wouldn’t be surprised. Like bubbles in ginger ale I heard a physicist say, Yeah,

Andrew Hewson: yep, that’s accurate.

Rick Archer: Yeah. All right. Let’s steer it back to what you do what you’re offering you certainly a couple of charts, we can go through those if you want. But I want people to get as good an idea as possible of, you know, what working with you with an entail, so they can get a good sense of whether it’s something that would appeal to them.

Andrew Hewson: Okay. Yeah. As far as the four pillars is concerned, the moving you know, the basis is observation, as far as an intention and a willingness and the spontaneous expression of that in the flow of daily living. And then with that there’s a pillar I call contemplative supplication, which is essentially a prayerful, supplicated attitude, life to itself, which is willing to receive truth in a childlike way, and also willing to turn towards truth. So it doesn’t rely on one’s own personal faculties, but turns towards the reservoir of all intelligence consistently on a daily basis, in alignment with what is being observed. So that would include perhaps, the supplication for what has been seen, to be resolved, which could be just a silent offering, or whatever the case, whatever the case may be, it varies for each one. But the general devotional attitude is in place. And with that, there’s something that I refer to as daily writing, which is pretty self explanatory, which is included in the pillar of contemplative supplication. This is a daily process of written investigation, where all of the content and form that’s been registered in the observation is then through supplication, investigated and broken down in such a way that the unseen is being seen. And the unresolved is being resolved by grace. There’s a willingness to look at all of those things within our own experience, which we previously were unconscious of. Yeah. And the word

Rick Archer: that humility comes in there too, you know, in terms of not insisting that things happen any particular way and being willing to, you know, beautiful, yeah,

Andrew Hewson: exactly. Yes, it is very much a position of humility, openness, willingness, receptivity, and a recognition that grace is the supreme worker, and all of this. And on that basis, were basically was simply just really witnessing a flower blossom, and in a certain sense, providing the conditions which are conducive to the flower blossoming but recognizing that it’s by the grace of the sunlight of the Divinity, that we are that the flower does blossom.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, this term non dual devotion kind of says it, but what, what you’re really saying is, this is sort of a heart based approach to non duality, which I find very sweet and nourishing as compared to them, sometimes more dry approaches to it. But it sort of has a greater richness to it. fuzziness, as you would say.

Andrew Hewson: Uniform Yeah, there. And then in that is transmutation, which I’ve already gone over, so I won’t spend too much time on it, it’s essentially the attentive allowing of unresolved emotion and the energy that’s behind the emotion. And this can include psychological impressions, meaning that we have certain thoughts or images that are associated with stored energy, or unresolved emotion, they oftentimes will surface with those unresolved, energetic condensations and emotional reflections. And we also want to be able to give some attentive, attentive allowing to all these all of these three layers that includes the psychological impressions, the emotional reflection, and the underlying energetic condensation. And as this takes place, what we’ll begin to witness is, as more resolution is shining forth, there’s a greater sense of lightness, a greater sense of freedom, a greater sense of expansiveness, and it carries on through all of the stages of enlightenment are all of the different contextual modalities or recognitions of reality and infinity. This means that it is applicable right here in a stage of pure divinity, just as much if not more, as it was in the initial stages. Yeah. So it also begins to include collected material when we get into the higher stages. I like to look at this as in personal cases, I know it sounds sort of like sterile or something, I don’t know. But it’s it’s helpful to recognize that these are cases of contextual conditions which are blossoming forth on our planet, and it is such a grace to have these, these recognitions of reality actually, being expressed in daily life through more and more human beings.

Rick Archer: So when you say cases you mean like your case? I’m a case. Sure. Ellie is your wife Ellie as a kid PPS you’re saying essentially are kind of being the the blossoming conduits for divinity throughout ExAC around the back, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hewson: So in the case,

Rick Archer: usually a basket case. Yeah, me too.

Andrew Hewson: So in, in that, in that sense, it’s important that we’re, we’re really giving attention to that which has not been given attention. That’s basically what it boils down to. And, and we’re willing to allow that which has not been allowed. Oftentimes, when someone is interested in spirituality, there’s the development of a, sort of a spiritual level of identity, like a spiritual ego. And, and the ego itself is not the identity. So it’s like a spiritual ego identification, identification as being a spiritual, separate person. This is a natural part of development and is beautiful, but at the same time, it has the potential to be very limiting in the sense that oftentimes, there’s a lot of things that are deemed to be unspiritual in that complex. And so we end up with this inner split, there’s one side of ourselves that we aren’t really allowing to resolve, or one side of our experience, not ourselves, but one side of our experience that we’re not allowing to resolve, or that someone appears to not be allowing to resolve, it’s not really going on like that. But there’s essentially a setup of a duality within the conscious experiencing. And it’s important that we’re allowing those things that have been deemed to be unspiritual, to naturally resolve without them being expressed behaviorally, and also without them being pushed away. So there’s a very, very fine line there with the natural grace of attention, which is just allowing unresolved bits and pieces of the unconscious both on an individuated and collective level, to surface into the conscious awareness, to be given space to just attentively resolve and complete. And then in that, there’s a greater sense of fullness, bliss, and then an invitation for more material to come up.

Rick Archer: So let’s to repeat what you said in my own word, so to make sure I understand it. So let’s say something which is not conducive to spiritual development, let’s say drinking, if that’s been a habit, it’s not that you strain against it and forced because you might, rubberband back, you know, and then and then go off the deep end. But on the other hand, you don’t indulge in it. But there’s just sort of gentle recognition of the impulse, or the desire as it comes up. And then a kind of a dissolving of that, hopefully, without having to actually act on the desire and that attenuates the conditioning. So the desire loses its steam over time, it’s so is that the kind of example of what you’re saying,

Andrew Hewson: Ah, well, I think that the drinking example is a little different, I would say, because in the case, and in the case of addiction, it, it’s going to be approached differently. It’s not as simple as just a basic transmuted perspective or understanding

Rick Archer: to give us an example then of a nod.

Andrew Hewson: If someone let’s say, someone was drinking, but now they’re not, they might have all of the the residue of the things that they did when they were drinking. And they’ve there’s guilt about that their shame about that there’s, there’s pictures and images and when

Rick Archer: they treated people with their finances, any there’s this

Andrew Hewson: layering of baggage, and I mean, this can be for anyone, it doesn’t have to be for someone that was an alcoholic, but just for things in our experience that have been more animali. expressed, we might say, and then we witness the expression, but it’s already done. And oftentimes, we aren’t really giving it the attention, the energy of that the attention that is needed to resolve so we hold ourselves accountable, we condemn an aspect of our experience and aspect of our humaneness. And it’s sitting there waiting to complete it’s sitting there waiting to resolve. So in this process of transmutation, what’s taking place is that all of that unresolved material is bubbling up to the surface, the field of attention, as it comes into the field of attention, then the natural spontaneous intelligence of transmutation begins to come online. So it can be attentively allowed to resolve into the field or to resolve into this sense of pure existence that is present already when it arises.

Rick Archer: So do you feel that the field when it gets more lively becomes like a solvent and and which begins to loosen up entrenched tendencies or impressions? And then which can then and as it loosens them, it can also dissolve them? And obviously, there has to be a certain pace to it. It can’t handle them all at once, but is there that kind of mechanics going on?

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, actually, we’re talking about one of the charts right now could we sure. It’s the divine displacement chart. Here we go over there. Just a simple PowerPoint presentation. Nobody get too excited. But I can’t see it,

Rick Archer: they see it but I’m sure.

Andrew Hewson: Alright, so if you see at the top we I have the different layers of contextual reality, which is pure divinity, the appearance of the void or supreme nothingness. And then that void supreme nothingness, there’s a dormant, inactive awareness, it’s not awareness in the sense that it’s not self conscious self aware. So divinity activates that dormant, inactive, aware nothingness. And that activation shows up as the primary distinction, conscious presence, pure awareness, the masculine feminine aspects, then there’s a whole bunch that goes on. But basically, we we see the emergence of the patterning of form and in this planetary system through the elemental, mineral, vegetable, animal and then into the human human being. And what I show there is levels of egoic dominance. So we have low egoic dominance, middle egoic dominance, high egoic dominance is basically just denotes whether or not there is a balancing out of context. So in logo dominance is very close to the animal level, this is what we consider egocentricity, self centeredness, you know, disregard for life other than the continuation of one’s own organism, those kinds of things. And then we see that dissipate and sort of balance out with a sense of connection towards the top. But if on the chart, this is something I call divine displacement, what I’m basically pointing out is that as the field becomes brighter with the light of divinity, and that begins to shine into these layers of egoic residue, which you see on the bottom of the chart as the low middle and high ego condition. So each of these, these levels of egoic dominance has residual impressions that are present within the experiencing, and as the brightness and the brilliancy and the shoosh, the shimmering, and divinity, of that which we are becomes brighter and brighter, then that shines into those layers of darkness and basically displaces them. So it’s like someone placing their hand in a cup full of water, the water gets displaced. And the same thing takes place when the reality of our divinity begins to shine into the conscious experiencing all of the impressions are displaced. And so those impressions being displaced, they bubble up to the surface. And they come into the to the field of attention, the field of activity. And that’s where the four pillars come into play. Those are the tools that I highly suggest they’re not requirements, of course, but they’re highly suggested for anyone, and they are supportive through all of the recognitions of reality, meaning that through each and every status of infinity, no matter how blissful no matter how, how exquisitely amazing. These levels of expression are valuable,

Rick Archer: and fabulous again, or observation, contemplate contemplative supplication, transportation and service that we were

Andrew Hewson: Yes, that’s correct. Yes. Okay. And so yeah, that’s divine displacement, which I thought was pretty, pretty cool. Because it is actually how it works. We actually witnessed that light shine into the darkness and displace all of those impressions that were based in the apparent dominance of darkness.

Rick Archer: Yeah, kind of like illuminating a room and then seeing all the cobwebs and dirt and stuff like that. Exactly, exactly. You did up until you have enough light shining on it to see it.

Andrew Hewson: Exactly. And this explains what happens with some of the cases of spiritual teachers where we see some activity that is seems to be incongruent with their, what it is that they’re expressing, yeah, is that this level of surfacing is taking place and perhaps there’s the sense of having arrived or not needing to continue to look at things or to to have this level of investigative transmutate of understanding or perhaps it’s just innocently that they have not been exposed to the possibility that perhaps that is supportive. Yeah. And then naively, they get caught in the self light trap of not continuing with the village isn’t vigilant, vigilant, excusing. Thank you. What’s the other one mean? I think that’s like,

Rick Archer: well, that’s like a village it takes a village, it takes a village.

Andrew Hewson: Okay, yeah, whatever it is, Can maintaining that sense of alert, attentive, allowing, which is inherently non controlling in its nature. That’s also very important to understand. What I’m describing has nothing to do with control. All control mechanisms are based in the residue of egoic dominance. So it’s about allowing In receiving, observing, resolving, it’s not about controlling, doing, trying.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah, as a couple of quotes I’ve said many times on the show, but they’re worth saying in this context. One is from Padma Sun bhava ancient Jewish, Jewish Buddhist teacher, said, although my awareness is as vast as the sky, my attention to karma or action is as fine as a grain of barley flour. And another is Carlos Castaneda, his teacher, he said, a warrior has time only for his impeccability. So there’s a great emphasis on you know, minding your P’s and Q’s and you know, not not letting your guard down because you think you’re so involved. There’s something beautiful, beautiful. A couple of questions came in. You’re about to say something? Well, I

Andrew Hewson: was just gonna say one more thing. Yeah. That those those four pillars are all contained under the umbrella of devotion without devotion. They’re not going to express and actualize. Yeah, that way. Yeah. Okay, good.

Rick Archer: This is a good one, I was gonna ask you earlier. About You know, it’s, it’s all well and good for you to be saying this stuff, you seem to be like a, you know, you take to it like a duck to water. And, and it’s you’ve had these openings and whatnot, quite spontaneously, it would seem. But, you know, I wonder how much it translates into the experience of the people that you teach or talk to? And a question came in from Katherine in San Diego that reminded me of that, which is he said, How can I feel fullness and clarity when I feel like a failure? You’re not a failure, Katherine, because that was a really good question.

Andrew Hewson: That was a great question. Yeah. So the sense of being a failure is what seems to be obscuring the fullness and clarity, yeah. So through giving attention, intelligent attention to the sense of being a failure, and allowing it to be there without necessarily becoming it then what begins to take place is the natural intelligence of this field spontaneously begins to fold that into itself. So you already are what you are, you already are, this infinite reality. And all of these layers of impressions that are based in the apparent unawareness of yourself, have the capacity to be resolved, they are resolvable and through grace, that is what is going to take place to ask the question already shows that there is some creative tension present. And that tension can express as this level of resolution. But as long as we are unwilling to let go of these definitions of our of ourselves, and of our experience, they’re going to stay there. So another key foundation is willingness, we have to be willing to, perhaps recognize that we don’t have our self figured out. We don’t really know what we are, we don’t really know who we are, and we don’t really know whether what we seem to have done. It should or shouldn’t have been. And that comes back to the childlike simplicity, which becomes a childlike maturity. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And, you know, we’ve all failed at things, you know, we’ve failed jobs or relationships or failed at becoming famous rock stars

Andrew Hewson: failure is Yeah, failure is a blessing in disguise. Yeah. And it’s a it’s a gift that’s, that’s poorly wrapped. But don’t mistake the wrapping for the gift.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Sometimes it’s God’s way of, you know, separating the wheat from the chaff and kind of making us more pliable and more receptive to higher wisdom. Not a good one here from Susan in the United Kingdom, Christianity puts great emphasis on the idea of forgiving other people. Could Andrew please explain why this is so important and does he have any specific advice on what to do and forgiveness is difficult?

Andrew Hewson: Well, forgiveness is based in the structure of the ego which spontaneously and innocently is consistently attempting to set up the illusion of separation. This limited self definition of conscious awareness feels that the sense of being separate is life. It is exists Without this sense of being a separate individual me here, then life would end existence would come to an end. So therefore it naturally out of a survival oriented intelligence constantly seeks to set up separation and a part of that is holding grudges, or judgment, criticism, being angry about things, there’s so many different ways in which this survival oriented intelligence expresses itself. Forgiveness is it is a tool of divine intelligence, which is basically moving in the direction of undoing those false borders and boundaries that have innocently been put into place through the survival oriented intelligence, of the limited identification with the human ego. When it feels like it’s difficult to forgive, recognize that forgiving is not something that we do as someone, but something that we allow to take place through us. We allow it to take place in this heart. And that moves it out of the realm of being a personal project, and moves it into the realm of being a divine project, which is what this really is all about. This is a divine project. And to the degree that we’re aligned with the divine project is to the degree that we will see fruits blossom forth out of that.

Rick Archer: And I’m reminded that Bible verse, Then Jim’s his mindset, saith, the Lord I shall repay. So if condemnation is a divine act, and not really for us to do, then by the same token, forgiveness is a divine act. And, you know, we can just sort of be again, conduits or channels for that.

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, yeah, actually, I have a little saying here that goes sort of in line with that. It’s from the Rigveda, actually, and it’s from the recerca, bach, bach, who’s speaking from identification with the Divine Mother. She says, I am the power which makes one eat the food to see to breathe and to hear what I am saying. They who do not believe me perish. And I am telling you the truth here with attention. I am myself telling this, which man and deities should try to understand the one whom I love, I make mighty I make him Brahman. I make him the sage. I make him wise. And of course, that applies for women as well. Oh, yeah. So this just expresses that. It’s, it’s the power of divinity that reveals itself through these nervous systems.

Rick Archer: Then, okay, so we’ve been going about two hours. very delightful. Way to spend a couple of hours. Yeah. So your your website then is just Andrew Houston, calm, is it?

Andrew Hewson: It’s Nandyal hyphen, devotion, calm. We just recently changed it. Okay, there

Rick Archer: we go. I’m just showing it on the screen here. And I’ll put a link to it on your page on bat gap. And, you know, people can find out what you do and what you have to offer and everything when they go there. But do you want to just summarize it briefly?

Andrew Hewson: Yeah, essentially, we have weekly webinars, some of them are more casual, you might say during the week, like we have a non dual prayer group and, and those kinds of things, which we’re just experimenting with, really, but it’s been beautiful. And then we also have once monthly retreats, which are online as well. And I’m available for one on one sessions, but I do highly suggest or request that someone attend at least three, some three of something before requesting a session, just because it’s important that we’re sure that there’s a direct resonance.

Rick Archer: Okay. Probably this interview could count as the first of those somethings. Sure. And then they could couple of other ones. Yeah. And you get to know who you are and what you’re what you’re at before having a private conversation. Good. Well, is there anything else you feel like saying In conclusion, or have we pretty much covered it?

Andrew Hewson: No, I feel like I feel like everything has been said, I just want to thank you again for having me.

Rick Archer: Oh, you’re welcome, Andrew. It’s it’s really been enjoyable. These conversations, I was having a nice effect on me. Slightly different with different people. But this one has really gotten me feeling like nicely attuned to, you know, your, your energy. Beautiful. Yeah. Alright, so thanks for those to those who have been listening or watching. Next week, I’ll be interviewing James Finley who’s a Christian Mystica we could say, associated with Richard Rohr. Cynthia Bourgeault and, you know, if you go to the upcoming interviews page on bat gap Comm, you’ll, you’ll see what we have scheduled, you can sign up on the website to be notified by email whenever a new interview is posted. And you can also subscribe on YouTube. You know how to hit the subscribe button. But one thing I learned just a few months ago is that after you hit the subscribe button, you see a little bell next to it. And then if you click that bell, then YouTube just notifies you every time a new thing is posted, which in our case is once a week. So if you’d like that notification, click the bell as well as the subscribe button. So thanks a lot. Thanks for listening and watching. Thanks again, Andrew. Thank you. It’s been a joy. Thank you. Thank You