Shyamji Bhatnagar Transcript

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Shyamji Bhatnagar Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually Awakening people. I’ve done over 500 of them now. And if this is new to you, and you’d like to check out the archives, go to Vat gap, and look under the past interviews menu where you’ll see them all organized in several different ways. This program is made possible by the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and would like to contribute, there is a PayPal button on every page of the site. My guest today is Shamji Buttner gar, welcome. Shamji. Thank you. Shree Shamji was born in 1936, which would make you about 83. Now, right?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Accurate 8484.

Rick Archer: Congratulations. I was born in 49. So I just did the math. But I’m still 79. Now what am I 69. And anyway, you were raised in India, at age 12, you met your spiritual teacher in the Himalayas and spent several years under his guidance. I’ll read the short bio, but then I have like three questions just from the bio. Your guru initiated you into the Shaivite tradition of tantra imparting a rare oral tradition of sacred sounds nada, yoga, and breaths, far yoga and spiritual wisdom. The grace of your guru and the spiritual practices he imparted are the basis for Shri shot for your intuition and unique chanting of sounds and mantra. For millennia, this tradition was passed down from generation to generation through an oral tradition which preserved its purity. Okay, so my first question is, how did you end up meeting your guru at such a young age?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: When and may 12 of 1948 we five boys took a train and went down what four or five kilometers to steal some leeches lychee fruit. And then of course, every half an hour or so there was a train coming back. And I paid a couple extra leeches and I couldn’t run fast enough. So I missed the train. And then, of course, I waited for the next train to come. And I was sitting in the forest village eating. All of a sudden I hear a voice. And I was just going in every direction to find the source of the voice. And I couldn’t. And finally I saw the little hillock, men sitting there Old, old old men. And he I walked towards him and he called me by his by my first name. So I thought, you know my father is a doctor in town. So maybe is one of his patients or something? No. Then he said to me, you will not believe me. But I was your teacher in your last life. And inside I laughed, because I didn’t believe in those things at that time. And then he said to me, ma’am, Santa, Dr. Seva, RAM, and I said, Yes. You who is the son of Dr. Ram Chang, and he went seven generations. I noted them down quickly. The ones that I didn’t remember, when I came home, I asked my father, do you know these names? He knew three more. And the last two, he didn’t. So he called his father to find out if he remembered anymore. He remembered one more. So he took it for granted that This man really knows everything. Yes. Everything. And that was very impressive. And then I started to see him on more regular basis by going to this temple in Dehradun. It’s called tip case where Mirage can do and he would periodically come and give me some instruction that was supposed to follow. And that’s how it started. So I studied with him for about four years.

Rick Archer: And so what sort of things did you learn when you were studying with him?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: You see, I had a lung disease, congenital. And I was mostly in pain. There was another thing, he gave me a small little pill, it or black pill, I don’t know what it was. And I took that in my pain subsided for maybe an hour or two. So that was another miracle because I’ve never experienced a couple of hours of my life without pain. And he taught me how to breed in how to chant mantras by breathing in with the nose. Everybody I ever heard chanting mantras or singing, everybody breathe with their mouth. And when I started to breathe with my doors and jaunt it created some extraordinary effect that I never experienced before. And that was the basis of my, my spirituality should I say?

Rick Archer: So I presume that your lungs got better.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: My lungs progressively got better. Yes, yeah.

Rick Archer: Because I mean, you’re, you’ve been singing all your life now using your voice.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah. I call it chanting, because chanting is with breathing with the nose. Yeah, singing is breathing with the mouth. Okay, so there is a difference between the two.

Rick Archer: So, um, on the one hand, I read in your book that you had a vision of the chakras while meditating in the Himalayas. But then in your bio, it talks about how the tradition, the knowledge you gained from your guru is passed down generation through Gen, you know, over the generation through an oral tradition. So I presume that what we’re concluding here is that you learned a lot from your guru, traditional knowledge that has been passed down for generations. And but then you cognized, even more than that little bit later on in your life.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, theoretically, I learned everything from my teacher. But over the years, I didn’t know about the chakras from experience. And one day in wishes to go for that, say, cave, where Shri Rama has guru to resistor, he had done his his spiritual work. And I was sitting there meditating. And that’s exactly when, in 1966, I had my vision of the extraordinary event, just an extraordinary day.

Rick Archer: So you’re just sitting, meditating, and all sudden, you had this profound vision, the

Shyamji Bhatnagar: lights started to just disks of light spinning. And I had no way to contact my guru to verify because I didn’t even know where to look for him. Yeah,

Rick Archer: but you managed to, I guess you. Yes. retro actively figured out what it was. Yeah. And I would suppose that you spent years even after that sort of studying and learning and filling in all the details, right?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: What happened is that a year later, in New York, I had the vision of the micro chakras. And that was an automatic writing, or five hours, I was just writing and writing. And then I fell asleep or the yellow pad in which I was writing. And when I got up, I didn’t even know that I wrote that. This story of 147 Micro chakras, how it came, why it came? I still don’t know.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Well, let’s fill in some gaps here. So most of the people listening to this will have heard of chakras and have some idea of what they are. But it would be good to get a definition because maybe not everybody has that knowledge. And even if they do, I’m sure you could fill in some more, you know, some more information for us.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes. First of all, we have to understand our physical body in which we live. Once I asked the professor of anatomy that you tell us that body is made up of hundreds of trillions of cells, he says yes. And I said, do these cells have a feeling? He said, No. Actually, do these cells have any thoughts? He says no. And I said, How can we think and we feel? He said, That’s a philosophical question. I am not trained to answer. Which gave me the idea that why in our tantric tradition, we believe that we have three bodies. Physical body is just one of the three bodies. I look at physical body as an envelope. Inside the envelope, there is a letter, that is our subtle body. And our right hemisphere of the brain is receiving the messages from our subtle body, which turn into the feelings. And then the message in that letter is coming from the causal body is called Karen Shirodhara, in Sanskrit, certain bodies called Sushma Sherea, which literally means subtle body. So every thought that we have, is coming to us from the causal body, and the recipient of that is the left hemisphere of the brain. So in the absence of knowing that we have these two other bodies, we accuse the brain for thinking and feeling. Brain is the recipient, not producer. You know, that comes, a thought comes and the neurons fire, a feeling comes the neurons fire.

Rick Archer: There’s a big debate about this these days in science, I think it was maybe Science Magazine that posted an article about the 100. Maybe I don’t know if it’s 100. But the biggest problems in science, you know, that are unsolved? Number two, is how does the brain produce consciousness? And number one is, what is the universe made of? And of course, people who are, you know, not materialists are saying, well, the brain doesn’t produce consciousness, the brain is like a radio, it receives consciousness, you know,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: actually, there are two words in English language that need a little bit better understanding. One is awareness. And one is consciousness. Awareness fluctuates. For example, right now, I am able to see you on the screen. But I can’t see what is behind me. So I am not aware of what is behind me. But I am aware to my senses, of what the reality I experience, consciousness in the contrary, it always is. And it always was, and it always shall be. Consciousness is the one on the authority of which the universes come and go, Brett comes in and goes, consciousness doesn’t go anywhere, even if the even if the universe goes into the black hole. consciousness does not.

Rick Archer: Right, so we could say that consciousness is the ultimate reality or the fundamental reality, indestructible, eternal and all that

Shyamji Bhatnagar: exists, right present omnipresent, right.

Rick Archer: And that awareness as we’re defining it is sort of what we happen to be aware of at the time. And that obviously, fluctuates. Yeah. And would you say it’s true that we are aware of things by virtue of consciousness, that consciousness Yeah, consciousness is the light by which we experience or we are aware of things?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Nothing? Can you exist without consciousness? Right.

Rick Archer: Okay, good. Well, that’s a good definition. So you’ve mentioned three bodies, gross, subtle and causal. It’s, it’s interesting, I sometimes have discussions or debates with people about reincarnation, for instance, and they say, How could that be, you know, your body dies, you’re dead, you’re done. And how could something possibly go into another body, and then you have to bring in the world we have a subtle body and the subtle body is different than the gross body, when the gross body dies, the subtle body doesn’t die, and then that eventually gets into another body. But somehow this is like perplexing to some people. So let’s talk a little bit about the idea of three bodies, what they are and so on.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, one definition of the central body I already explained to you which is that every feeling you have ever had, whether it is of love, or even ego, physical tissue does not have any ego. Ego is a feeling. It comes it arises and it subsides. You can use it, and you can surrender it. You can use it you can surrender it. central body, in fact, effecting our nervous system from the back that’s But argument I had with my publisher, when I presented the cover of the book, and I showed the chakras affecting us in the back. Yes. He said to me, every other book shows the chakras in the front. And I said, think why? Because it’s more interesting.

Rick Archer: Well, obviously, the spine is in the back.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. The chakras are effecting our spine, the Plex I, the nerve ganglions. They are the ones who receive the light from the chakras.

Rick Archer: So, I’ll just ask dumb questions here and give you an opportunity to explain in greater detail. So someone might ask, what is the subtle body made of we know our gross body is made of various chemicals and substances and all but what is the subtle body made of

Shyamji Bhatnagar: certain body is made up of? What is the truth made up of? What is love made up of?

Rick Archer: Good question. Could we say there’s such a thing as subtle matter that these things are are made?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: But according to Einstein matter doesn’t even exist?

Rick Archer: Well, yeah,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: because we are in the material body. We live in the material body. So we think materially. But scientifically speaking, matter does not exist. In fact, I had a quotation from Einstein. Matter does not exist. He says, he says, We have been wrong. All along. All that exists is energy. But we can’t perceive the energy. Therefore the energy has to lower itself to become perceptible to our senses. That’s when the yogi’s decided that Why trouble the mother, God has the energy to come down from her status to be perceptible to us. We can raise our standards, our senses, so we can perceive the mother goddess. The reason I say Mother Goddess, is because energy is translated as goddess in Indian literature. That’s why they worship the Goddess.

Rick Archer: Okay, so Well, we won’t go off on Einstein too much right now. But um, okay, so we have, cuz he does, he did say equals MC squared and the M stands for mater in there.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: But that was in the beginning. That’s why he said, we have been wrong all along.

Rick Archer: Oh, I see. So Lisa, later on, he said, Okay, good. All right. So we have a rough idea of what chakras are um, you have a good idea of the rest of us have a rough idea of the different energy centers in the body from the base of the spine to the top of the head, and everyone’s heard talks about that the heart chakra, the second chakra and everything, but um, probably you are the only person I’ve ever heard of who talks about micro chakras. So, what are micro chakras?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Micro chakras, I can give you only an analogy with the sun. sunrays, travel, and they enter our body and everything else you nurture. If for example, you are sitting in a basement of a building, outside there is sunlight, but you are not receiving the sunlight. Why? Because there are blocks everywhere that is blocking the rays of the sun. Similarly, the chakras are spinning. They are pure light spinning, and they’re of different use by the way. Now, they are spinning and spinning and the light can come to our back. But the light is traveling through the rays. Those rays are called micro chakras, meaning the light of the chakras has to enter our body from the back. However, if those micro chakras that blocked and there are 147 of them, then you don’t receive that particular you have light. Consequently, whatever that light is related to which is what is called the micro chakra psychology, and you can read about them. At least 98 are mentioned in the book. And I would have liked another 49 can be mentioned but the book was getting too big.

Rick Archer: Okay, so you’re saying that light in the ordinary sense comes in through our eyes, but in a subtler sense. It comes in through our micro chakras in the back is that?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes, micro chakras are thick. Can you hear of the light chakras never get blocked. Sun never gets blocked. Even if the clouds come in front of it. Sunlight is still passing through it.

Rick Archer: So are you just talking about sunlight that comes in through the micro chakras or a sun subtler form of light,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: the central chakras, they are light travels through the micro chakras, and they enter our body. Okay, seventh chakra light will enter from the top of the head, and the first chakra light will enter from the coccyx.

Rick Archer: So even in a dark place, like a yogi meditating in a cave where there’s no sunlight, light could be coming in through his micro chakras. Because it’s a subtler form of light. That’s not the same as the visible No. Okay. Okay, good. And so I would presume that almost everybody has blocked micro chakras, probably in different proportions. Some of them are open, some of them are close, and it’s a unique signature for every person. Is that correct? That is correct. Okay, and how, what are the symptoms of them being blocked? Or what are the symptoms of particular ones being blocked? And just as part of an addition to this question, each of the chakras has a number of micro chakras. And I also heard you say that each of the micro chakras has micro micro chakras, and it sort of goes all the way down.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah, I could feel them but intellectually, I can. I can understand that there are simpler and subtler micro chakras.

Rick Archer: But practically we just go down. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I can feel them. Right. I can already feel the micro chakras. I can feel 49 Micro chakras in the right side of your spine. I can feel 49 In the left channel, I do that whenever somebody comes for a two hour long consultation, that’s what I do you to maybe charge, like, I make a chart of their micro chapters. And I give them a copy of it. So that they can look at it in the book and they can see why this micro chapter got blocked. And how can we open it, I give them instructions. I have been I must have seen more than I must have given consultations more than 50,000 times in my life. And I know people who have dramatically changed because they are blocked micro chakras became open.

Rick Archer: So when you do the consultation, you go into a sort of a meditative state or some some some kind of state that enables you to sort of cognize on a subtle level what’s going on with the micro chakras?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes, partly that and partly the client has to be relaxed. So we have I have developed a, what is called inner tuning massage is a 15 Minute work on the head and shoulders and neck and face, which prepares people to be so relaxed that in my own meditative state, I can feel the micro chakras along the spine. Okay. And then I make a chart.

Rick Archer: So two things have to be there. You have to be in a meditative state and they have to be relaxed and then then can be an attunement.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. Okay, good. So I got it in your tuning.

Rick Archer: And I presume that, you know, all kinds of things I can think of that probably would block your micro chakras, like certain things that happened in your upbringing, or in your childhood? Or maybe you took drugs at a certain point or alcohol or, or had, you know, traumatic experiences you were a soldier in Afghanistan or something and you had a lot of stress. And is that correct me all sorts of life experiences, things we consume and experiences we have all of these would create blocks?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, the way to understand that is there are three, three channels that intersect all seven chakras. I put convenience, I call them right channel, the central channel and the left channel, right channel energy descends from the birth to the first three years of a life of Figaro.

Rick Archer: And these are the either the Pingala and the Sushumna is that you’re referring to

Shyamji Bhatnagar: are the changes teachers are in the Sushumna they’re in the session, okay. Yes, you got and Pingala are reading channels. They they provide pronoun to the channels. You know, there are five different types of promise. I will maybe later on I’ll talk about upon a parameter which is the most important one to to purify, or the rest of the three bodies to properly function and and become closer to one another each other. So these seven micro chakras, they are in each chakra, and 49 of them. They are mostly but 50% of them are blocked in the first three to three and a half years of life. So we have only 50% to work with left channel, you can open 100% Even if some things are blocked in the right channel, you can still open it in the left channel. I can give you an example. If you are not a breastfed baby your fifth micro chakra in the heart chakra

Rick Archer: will be blocked. My must be blocked. My mother said that her doctor told her she shouldn’t breastfeed me or anything. I remember my mother crying one time because she was deprived of that experience.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I know several people like You’re like yourself. Unfortunately. It is not true that the breastfeeding can ever be bad for the baby. I shouldn’t think so. You know, doctors sometimes they promote the farm moolah.

Rick Archer: Oh, yeah, in those days, they gave amphetamines to pregnant women. They call them pet pills, you know, so crazy. They see there’s

Shyamji Bhatnagar: something deeper that’s happening. Maybe later in the, in the conversation, we can talk about the deeper reasons why. In the medical system, they they believe that babies have no feelings. Right? Right. That’s why even today, right, this very minute that I’m talking to you, some baby boy is being circumcised without without anesthesia. Because babies are not supposed to have feelings.

Rick Archer: Which is Which is crazy. I mean, because obviously if you have ever interacted with a baby, it’s obviously has feelings, you know? Tension, he’ll cry.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Whatever objective you use will be insufficient.

Rick Archer: Right? Right. Crazy as a kind way of putting it. Okay, so let’s not get too sidetracked but Okay, so let me just get down to the math again for a second. So each you said each chakra has seven micro chakras, but that’s seven sevens are 49. How did we end up with 147 49? In

Shyamji Bhatnagar: the right channel? 49.

Rick Archer: There we go. We did. Okay, good. Got it. Okay, and proceed from here? Probably I’ve interrupted you several times in the middle of a thought you might want to complete?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes. So tell me what we will. What were we talking?

Rick Archer: Well, we are talking about how they get blocked in the first place. And and we assume I assumed, and you confirmed that everybody has some of them blocked various combinations with different people and that there are various life experiences that can block them. Maybe we should now talk about how you go about unblocking them

Shyamji Bhatnagar: unblocking takes place through inner tuning practices. And there are different practices that i i designed for people as I see their age, their work situation, what part of the planet they are living, living in. So it becomes a very individual, individualized

Rick Archer: program. But it’s once a person has learned it or been instructed that there’s something they can practice on their own. They don’t have to sit with you every time, right?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, they don’t. But example I go to Europe three times a year. Every four months, I can see my students to see what progress they’ve made. Then I give them either a change in the mantra, or changing the meditation technique, or changing some yoga postures. Changing the sleeping posture. I mean, there are lots of things, lots

Rick Archer: of things you can do. Exactly. Okay. A question just came in which it might be good to ask at this point. It’s relevant to what we’re talking about. This is from Kp and Mumbai. He says, do micro chakras relate to the petals on the chakras? In the standard literature, you see those pictures of the chakras? What about the words on those petals that we find in the tantric literature?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes, yes, all of those are relevant, the patterns of the chakras they are the ones that start to vibrate when you pronounce those sounds properly. Now, this gentleman from Bombay, you said Mumbai came from your question came from the he will probably understand that there are four sounds inscribe for example, on the pure lotus of the first chakra chakras are compared with the lotuses. Why? Because the lotus flower is the people lotus flower on the planet. Why is that pure in comparison to rose or Lily, because a rose really, if a medi drop falls, of course it will roll off. But you can see a track through which that rolled off and the lotus flower that track will not be there. It is called stainless.

Rick Archer: Nice. Yeah, they also say of lotus is that even though they have the roots in the mud, they have risen up above that, you know, they’re up above the water and

Shyamji Bhatnagar: that is what the yogi’s are supposed to do. They live absolutely pure life, in spite of the fact that we live in Dark Ages. This is Yeah. So, the sounds that are there, they have to be pronounced properly. Now, for example, the first sound and the first petal of the first chakra is called the sound of Va Va. Now, if VA is not pronounced, by arresting the two canines in the inside of the lift, it is not correct. You can also say VA, which means that your canines are touching the outer part of the lip. Mantra will not work. It has to work in the inside, because the inside is a sensitive pressure point. And when the canines, when you make that sound, the canines will vibrate that point that will keep that pedal shall I say young? You know. So there are there are 49 sounds in all, and three complex sounds 52 sounds we have that the languages have borrowed the sounds from the chakras, every language. Some languages have 37 letters, some have 26, some have 18. In Sanskrit, you have 52. And the 330 Millions of mantras are made up of those 52 sounds.

Rick Archer: Okay, let’s fill in a couple more gaps here. One is the assumption that about that everything we’re saying is based upon, that the nervous system on all of us levels is the sort of the vehicle or the instrument through which enlightenment is gained. That’s maybe just good to express. And what you’re talking about here is a way of tuning up the instrument so that it can support that experience, spirits of higher consciousness and so on. You would concur with that, I assume.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah, you see the word. First of all, if we understand that, the light of the chakras, they have to keep on energizing the petals of the lotuses which are called the chakras. When all 49 terms are properly used, you have light from the first chakra, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and all of them are basically related with the top of the head, the seventh chakra. For example, when your seventh micro chakra in the first chakra is completely open, you’re getting all that yellow light. sufficiently, okay, first micro chakra of the seventh will then become open. Why? Because the seventh of the first is open, then seventh of the second is open, seventh of the third is open. So the seventh chakra depends totally on the contentment of the lower chakras. That’s why I say that each chakra has a mind of its own. For example, the mind of your body is totally different than the mind of your gender. Men think differently than women because of their gender.

Rick Archer: So what you just said was that, as I understand it, is that there’s a connection or a correlation between the lower chakras and the seventh chakra and as as the lower chakras or the or the lower micro chakras open. Then correspondingly, the corresponding aspect of the seventh chakra will automatically open because of that correlation. Is that right? Yes.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Okay, just like a tone. When the tone is in tune. It will have an overtone that is in tune.

Rick Archer: Uh huh. Yeah, sure. Like you can take a guitar string and ring a certain string and it’ll cause another string to resonate with that or to or to tuning forks is another example. Okay, good. Someone sent in a question relevant to what you just said as well read it. This is Florence boys from New York. Siddhi she said that um, I think that from Shamji is micro chakra perspective, there is a discontentment in micro chakras whose needs haven’t been met. Are there ways to compensate for the unmet needs of micro chakras?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Repetition of doing the same thing over and over again, is a attempt to open the seventh micro chakra

Rick Archer: such as give us an example. Eg Well, we do that every day.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Many people do it three, four times a day. Yeah. Because the seventh micro chakra in the first is not open. And the reason it is not open is not because they are not eating enough if they are not open because we are not eating properly.

Rick Archer: So you’re not saying that people shouldn’t eat You’re just saying that perhaps abnormal eating such as overeating would be caused by a discontentment in the micro chakra, right? Exactly.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Okay, cuz they are discontent, they keep on eating more and more hoping that they will become content. Right, right. You see with with the money,

Rick Archer: money, video games, a million different things people become obsessed with them.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: The first three, the first three chakras, they are by nature, restless, and discontent. And the more of the stimulus you gather for them, the more addicted you get to the stimulus. For example, if you have earned a billion dollars in your life, you’re not content, you want to now have 2 billion. And when you have two, you want to compare yourself with those who have four to you keep on keep on adding to that discontent, feeling hoping that someday you will be content, unfortunately, doesn’t work that way. Same is with sex. More sex you have the more sex you want. third chakra more power you have the more power you want. No president has ever renounced their place after eight years. It’s just that they can’t. They have lifted after eight years right?

Rick Archer: After FDR they had to.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: So the first three chakras, they are discontent by nature, intervention from the higher chakras has to take place for them to become content in the first three chakra mines.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Just reminder of Gita verse based on what you’re saying that the objects of sense turn away from Him who does not feed upon them, but the taste for them persists. On on seeing the supreme even this taste vanishes?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Ah, beautiful. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And you, you know, it’s almost a cliche, people say, Oh, yes, well, Happiness has to come from within, and you don’t get it from external objects and all but you wouldn’t think that was the case to see everyone in the world behaving as they behave? So and if you say that to somebody who was accustomed to deriving whatever shreds of happiness they get from external things, they won’t understand what you’re talking about, chances are, and so, you know, well, okay, so that’s a form this into a question. So what would you say to somebody who is addicted to this, that and the other thing, try attempting to get fulfillment from outer experiences? How do we turn them around and enable them to discover that fulfillment comes from within?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, one question I sometimes I ask people to repeat to themselves. When you wake up in the morning, and you say, yesterday, whatever you did, did it bring you any contentment?

Rick Archer: So they might say, Yeah, I saw this movie. It was really great. I love that movie.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Keep repeating it. Yeah,

Rick Archer: you wouldn’t do you wouldn’t wanna see the same movie every day, you get tired of it. Or the same baseball game, but the same whatever.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: You know, when you play a game, and you lose, you have to change the strategy. If you think that just because you can win one game that that’s gonna make you content. Think again, you have seven different minds. Most of us don’t even use all the seven minds. Most people frame frankly speaking, live in the first three chakra mines. And they are discontent by nature. It’s really the heart chakra mind that gives you a clue. When you open up the unconditional love. That’s what the heart chakra mind knows. Only problem with the heart chakra mind is it just doesn’t know who to love unconditionally.

Rick Archer: And so it tends to love Something that perhaps that might not be so stable or consistent.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Level worthy.

Rick Archer: Right, right. I’m reminded of a quote that’s attributed to Einstein. I don’t know if he said it, but it’s that, you know, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Yeah. Okay, so we’ve talked a little bit about inner tuning. And you have personal consultations with people and you give them programs to follow. And then you go back periodically and reconnect with them, and maybe fine tune the programs that they’re following. And you have some people who’ve been with you for years. So if I was one of those people, what would my daily routine be like? What would I be doing on a daily basis, daily

Shyamji Bhatnagar: basis, they will make an attempt to go to bed as early as possible. Because the light at night is really not a very good thing for our pineal gland,

Rick Archer: or the artificial light and

Shyamji Bhatnagar: occupation like electric light, as much as we have gotten hundreds and hundreds of different advantages from the light lives are saved. Because we can drive the ambulance and take a person to the hospital and enrich them the light that they can be held to those of the 1000s of benefits. The light has given us, refrigeration so on. But the problem is this, we have lost a bio rhythm of the chakras, which were I’ve talked about our sixth chakra, it depends on the Light and Darkness rhythm. You see what happens. At night, when the sun goes down, the serotonin level starts to drop. And as it gets more and more dark, the melatonin level starts to rise. And that’s why we can get in deep sleep. And then two hours before the sunrise body feels rested, it tosses and turns to wake up from the chakra point of view what happens energy reaches the seventh chakra level. But two hours before the sunrise, it is in the seventh chakra and suddenly it drops from the seventh to the first. Now this happens around the equator part of the way you are that time reduces for example, New York area is much closer to the North Pole than the equator India for example, right. So in India, two hours before the sunrise, the energy will drop from the seventh to the first here 90 minutes. Okay, so as the energy drops from the seventh to the first, the body shakes, it tosses and turns. Because we have not had enough sleep, we toss and turn and go back to sleep. So we miss the first chakra mind rhythm. The first chakra rhythm is what when you get up, your opponent will stimulate peristalsis and stars and you will go and have a bowel movement. To my students, they are taught how to regulate their first chakra rhythm by having two bowel movements a day, one before the sunrise and one around the sunset. Once you have maintained that rhythm, all of a sudden, you are much more in tune with your body and the purity of the body. Because the waste material doesn’t really want to stay in your body. It wants to go out. But because of our lifestyle, because of the access to the electricity, I have raised three four children, they will not listen. They will work at night, they will say I want to do my homework at 11 o’clock at night. As if five o’clock in the morning is not very quiet. It’s the mindset because everybody is doing it and therefore it becomes normal. No majority of the people sometimes do stupid things does not make them normal. So the pineal gland is the only light sensitive gland. And when you don’t listen to its call, you force it to produce serotonin at night, melatonin during the day. When you catch up in time, you are going to have a brain related problems as you grow up. And you’re a sensible psychiatrist or doctors. When somebody has a problem with insomnia. First thing they will recommend them is to take some melatonin before you go to sleep. Why not take the melatonin from nature?

Rick Archer: Oh, I realized my mic was muted. Yeah, there. They also say, don’t sit at your computer at night and stuff like that, you know, you just gotta gotta settle down, shut down. Exactly. Get ready. So what happens to people who live in, let’s say, northern Alaska, where for half of the year, it’s light almost all the time. And the other half of the year, it’s dark almost all the time. Well, the

Shyamji Bhatnagar: body tries to get adjusted. And the suicide rate or the depression rate is far higher in those climates and those altitudes, you will notice that I remember, I was very, very impressed by Ingmar Bergman, a Swedish movie director. I thought he was one of the greatest movie makers in the world. Yeah. And his subject most of the time was depression. That how people how life is so depressing, you know, mankind did not evolve on the North Pole. It evolved around the equator. Now we, now we say it was Africa. But when the life evolved, which continent was, what was the shape of the continents? Who knows? That was millions of years ago? You see,

Rick Archer: yeah. Eventually people migrated to those places.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, did they search for food? Everybody left? Everybody left that everybody? People who could not find food? They were sheltered, or they went northward. So now we are stuck under the snow covered peaks. Projects that normal. That’s why when you go for vacation, you don’t go to North Pole.

Rick Archer: Some people do they take these cruises to Alaska, but not not in the wintertime. Yeah.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: 1000, right. Yeah. I’m talking about the nine 999 people. Yeah. All right. So tropical type of a climate.

Rick Archer: So one thing you said is that, okay, if I was your student, I would be learning to get on a good routine, Early to bed early to rise. What’s another thing?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Another thing is that you work with the lights every day. For example. Today is Tuesday. Yeah, right. It is it the day of Mars. The day of Mars, every day is after the name of the planet. You notice that?

Rick Archer: I? Well. i My wife knows about that stuff. So I know. I know. For that reason, I know.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah, maybe. Maybe her wisdom will be even more rewarded when she understands the reason I’m giving you Okay? Yesterday was the day of the moon. That’s why we call it Monday. Today is the day of Mars. To my students, they will be eating something that is orange bread, that you can so many colors of foods and vegetables and fruits. So why not make a choice of the color of the day? And how does that help? That will lay the layer of the red, red planet. Okay, so you got red, or Tuesday, you can wear something red, or orange to remind you that today is Tuesday.

Rick Archer: Well, not all, not all planets have colors distinctively, like Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, and

Shyamji Bhatnagar: they did a predominant color. Mars has a predominant color which is red orangey red. Mercury is green. Jupiter is yellow. Venus is white. Saturn is black and blue. Sunday is gold.

Rick Archer: So there’s an advantage to eating all these foods on the different days.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: If you if you you see what you do it what is the purpose of life from my standpoint, and from tantric standpoint. purpose of life is to create circumstances in which you can become enlightened Yes. Which means to experience your own light. Every color of the spectrum is contributing to that light. So if it is seven days scale, you have absorbed the whole spectrum. Not only by wearing it eating it 90% of the color you will take in with your eyes 7% color you taken with what you eat 3% From what you were, you see so 100% effect you will get if you concentrate and see that Color. You know if you know today’s Tuesday, you will watch every red card, every red sign. Everybody was wearing a red tie.

Rick Archer: You know, so I have the wrong color shirt on today.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well be tomorrow you’ll probably be wearing green Cal

Rick Archer: is tomorrow Green Day. That’s right.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Oh, I’ll do that go to my website and you download the parameters. Yeah,

Rick Archer: sure. I’ll do that. I’ll download it. What the heck

Shyamji Bhatnagar: is in my, in my family, my sister in law. She’s a gynecologist. She says of all your teachings, I like the one of the color. And my brother says that’s the one I hate. Because she had to go out and buy more clothes.

Rick Archer: That’s funny. Okay, so we have two things so far we have early, better lit arise and you know, bowel movement early. And twice a day. And we have this thing about the color correlations of each day. Exam. What else? Mantra Okay,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: chart, you see that? Let’s understand the word mantra. What does that mean? It’s made up of two words. Mantra 80. To get a that’s equation. Okay. Mana means mind. By the way, the word man comes from the word mana men. It’s called man in English, but men in in American, but the word is basically madness. Meaning the animal that has a mind is a man Okay. Try means to go beyond mantra that which will take you beyond your mind. So that you can live above the field of mind, rather than under the field of mind. You see, ya know, when you when you live above the field of mind, you can tell your mind what to do. When you are under the field of mind, then the mind is telling you what to do. It’s almost like riding your horse holding it from the bottom. I can be very rough, my friend. Yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah. Oh, it certainly can look at a look at the world.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Guru. Meeting a guru is a technique in Indian tradition that will bring you on top of the horse, rather than be holding on from the bottom, bottom of the horse is suffering. Top of the horse is a play. There are two words in Sanskrit, Maya and Lila. Maya is when you are living a lifestyle that is leading to suffering. Like Buddha said, All life is suffering. Because most people live under the field of the mind. They’re they’re riding under the horse. And Lila is when you get on top of the horse. Now life is a play. And when it’s a play, you have two things. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. And when you win, or when you when you do when you go and shake hands with the loser and say today it was my day.

Rick Archer: Good. So a mantra purpose or mantra is to take you beyond the mind based on based on its definition. And when you go beyond the mind, what do you arrive at?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: You know then what the subject who the subject is? Who are you

Rick Archer: go to that which is fundamental to the mind you could say,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: no, no, the subject you see by mind is an object. For example, I have a glass in my hand, I say my glass, right? Glass is an object, I am the subject. I also say my mind, I am the subject mind is an object, my body. I am the subject that lives in this body, which is an object. Confusion is that you become the body, you become the mind. That’s when the suffering begins. live outside of your body, outside of your mind, outside of your ego, then you can use them whenever you need to whenever you want to. But you don’t become them. It’s like a role that you play. Like Shakespeare says, All life is a play. We all have our entrances and exits.

Rick Archer: As he like it. Yeah. All the world’s a stage. So when you say live outside your body, your mind etc. I don’t think you mean disassociated from it as if you were off five feet to the right or something. You You mean somehow raised diving in a more fundamental level that is, prior to the manifestation of mind and body, would you say it that way?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly subject? Right? Trying to remember what Socrates said, Know thyself. He didn’t say Know thy mind, thy soul, the body, thy anything else, right? thy self, that means the people that he knew, did not know themselves, including Plato, who didn’t even understand what his guru was telling you.

Rick Archer: So there’s a section in your book, and there’s a lot of talk in among spiritual teachers, about the ego, you know, killing the ego, or going beyond the sense of personal self. There’s a section in your book where you talk about, you know, that section of the of the Gita, where it talks about, you know, the sense of doership or else recognizing that the Gunas of nature are performing action. So, um, you know, when you go beyond the mind when you when you know, the self, does that in the same stroke, demolish the ego or kill it in some sense, or does the ego become more of a just a faculty, but it’s, it’s no longer recognizes who and what you are?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, it is one of your powers. Uh huh. You use it when you want,

Rick Archer: like your eyes are like your ears. It’s the faculty,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: anything that is an object, subject should know how to use the object. If the object becomes the subject, you are living your second hand life and checking in life will never bring contentment knowing the subject is part and parcel of spiritual life.

Rick Archer: So just to reiterate, I, you wouldn’t say would you that the ego is at some point completely annihilated, but just that it takes its proper place in the whole structure of things,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I can give you a practical example. Okay, good. When you go to sleep, or I go to sleep, or anyone does, we want to make sure that the body is rested and quite close or tapped in, in the shoulders are under the proper covers, right. So the ego of the body is now in a state of surrender, then the feelings will take over, you will think about, you know, oh, maybe I said something with somebody I shouldn’t have, you know, then you have surrendered now, the ego of the feeling mind, then, thoughts will come to you what you have to do tomorrow. And slowly you will surrender the ego of your thoughts. And gradually your third micro chakra, which is the ego principle, in the seventh. And the moment you renounce the ego, of the seventh chakra mind, you have entered to sleep. To ego is a complete state of surrender. When we are deeply asleep. In the daytime, we can do the same. Use whichever chakra mind’s ego you need, and then go to the next, go to the next. In other words, you remain the subject. You hold on to the reins of your horse, horses, the ego, you tell it where to go. You drive it. That’s why Shri Krishna, his role is so important in in Mahabharata, that he is the driver of the Prince Arjuna.

Rick Archer: Right. It’s the charioteer.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. Hmm. And all these epics are basically the story of a human being. Yeah, allegorical. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: There’s even a saying someplace or other that’s Brahman is the charioteer. I forget the Sanskrit you may have heard it, but it’s, I think it kind of fits in with what we’re saying. Yeah. Um, do you advocate meditating before bed?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I tell people to sit for a minute. Because between walking and laying down, there is an institution of sitting. You don’t have your ear when you’re walking, your heartbeat is much faster. So before you lay down, it is better to give your heart a minute of rest. I think once I told that to my cardiologist, that is this a good practice? I teach people he said that will give their heart a little bit More Life

Rick Archer: transition. Yeah. I’ve been meditating for a long time, but 51 years and on average a couple hours a day, and I have no problem with sitting and meditating for an hour, the whole thing is enjoyable. But I heard you in one of your recordings, you were saying, you know that it’s not advisable to meditate for longer periods because you go through these different cycles, and one of them is seven minutes, and then another is something else. And you’ll just be lost in daydreams. But yeah, sure, the mind will pick up on thoughts and go off, but but it doesn’t remain that way. And one can have a very deep meditation for a full hour or whatever. And of course, we’ve heard of Yogi’s who will sit for days in Samadhi. So I presume that this is not some kind of universal rule that you can’t meditate more than a few minutes.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, no, I don’t say that. You not, you do what you want. You live in a free world. You can do what you want. It’s just a matter of time. Yeah. If you don’t have a lot of time, if you don’t have a lot of time. It’s the quality of meditation, that’s more important. And then the quantity. Yeah. So what happens I, I have some students who are monks have different traditions. And I can give you a live example of a monk, who told me he used to meditate for two hours, an hour and a half in the morning and a half an hour in the evening. And I would ask him, do you have your bowel movement before you meditate? He says, not necessarily. I said, then don’t close your eyes when you sit to meditate. He was shocked that why his teacher didn’t teach him that. Because years later, when I met him, this man was glowing. And he says he only meditates now. 24 minutes in the morning, and one minute or two at night. And he was literally glowing, because he will not close his eyes. If he had not had a bowel movement in it besides that, Rick, I want you to tell me when we want to use a word, we should know what it truly means. Is that right?

Rick Archer: Sure. What like what kind of word anywhere don’t take any word.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: The word medication has so many lose meanings. Everybody interprets medication, to what is their own meanings of medication.

Rick Archer: Sure, it’s like the word liquid. It could refer to orange juice, it could refer to ammonia, and they kind of think

Shyamji Bhatnagar: of as an example, right? But the better example is to understand what is the word stand for? Now let’s see what is the root of the word meditation. In Sanskrit we call it the Mona, the ANA. Okay, I haven’t explained the I’m a little bit later. Let’s go to the word meditation. It comes from Latin. And the word in Latin is Mediterra. Which means to think, how many people you think who are meditating? Know the meanings of the word meditation?

Rick Archer: I’m sure they’ve all been given some kind of definition. But as you just said, the definition is must vary.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I am sorry, I’m just asking you a personal question. You will, admitting to me that you meditate an hour or two every day? Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah. What is What does meditation word mean to you?

Rick Archer: To me, it means allowing the active mind to settle down and to become more and more and more and more refined. And to the point where, you know, thought virtually ceases or ceases altogether, and one just resides in the self or in pure awareness. And then there might be periods where the mind percolates up again, and then resides back again during that during that period. That’s the that’s the description of the experience. Yeah.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: You see, what you’re describing is the rate of breathing in relationship to the rate of thoughts.

Rick Archer: Yeah, breathing settles down. And of course, they’ve done a lot of research on this stuff in the whole physiology settles down along with it.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. Yeah. So when we live in a very stressful times, it can become therapeutic tool to calm the mind. But that has nothing to do with meditation. That is the relaxation.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but remember the second verse, the Yoga Sutras, you know, yoga, chitta vritti nirodha Yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind, which is what I just described.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes, beyond the cheetah, there’s something else

Rick Archer: yeah. third verse, and then the CRS in the self.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Right? Okay. What they are saying is that, you think, what is the thought that you are planted in your mind when you are meditating Mediterra remember that Mediterra means to think, not to cease thinking. I tell you something, yes, that’s the

Rick Archer: English word implication of it in fact that meditation usually means contemplation. I think I’ll go sit and meditate on the meaning of life or something like that. You

Shyamji Bhatnagar: know, contemplation is a state state prior to meditation. You know, you have, you know, Yama Xia much awesome as parama Yama with your Hara, you know, then Dharma beyond Samadhi. Right? Okay. First of all, without Pratihara you can’t even go there.

Rick Archer: Define pratyahara for us,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: with your Hara is the ability to invert your senses. Discover, discovered the inner aspect of the senses, eyes know how to see outside, eyes also can see what is inside. Some artists have a vision, the painted, they inverted their visual sense, that would make them an artist. There are people who compose a beautiful melody, they inverted their fifth chakra sense, called hearing, they heard the melody and then they composed it. See, this is all pretty Hara. without accomplishing Pratyahara, you cannot go to Darna Dharma is contemplation. Contemplation has to take place is with a singular thought in your mind, that you want to sustain a singular thought, whether it’s a mantra, some people use breath to concentrate on. Once you accomplish the Harner, then you go towards the ANA. And Ghana is a idea, you got to have an idea to think about meditation is to think about an idea and not be involved with your subtle body, your physical body, or your causal, yes, it is a causal body phenomenon. Because causal body is where the thoughts are coming from. So you want to refine your causal body by realizing the true nature of the self contemplating on the true nature of the self. But it’s premature to think about that when you have not even been able to do what’s called Pratyahara. Give her I do not agree, when people say, just because you can relax by sitting for an hour. You are not really, you’re not making use of the time as wisely as you could.

Rick Archer: Okay, well,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: in the 21st century,

Rick Archer: just based upon my own experience, it radically transformed my life. Just rattle off

Shyamji Bhatnagar: the next one. Yes. It progressively it will.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Also, when you say I’m thinking about an idea just then, in the I think it was the darkness stage, you were saying that what sort of idea are you referring to?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Um, but um, but yeah, I

Rick Archer: am Brahman. Um, so But okay, so you’re talking about a contemplative thing where one would contemplate on the notion hombre must me or Tomasi are one of those?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. That’s a singular thought. Yeah. When you are absorbing that singular thought, that is meditation. But he said, You cannot have enough practice behind it. And the practice part is Pratyahara. Without the purification, by the way, you can’t even go towards pratyahara many, many people are meditating. They don’t even have a bowel movement. There are people who are practicing yoga, standing on their head without having a bowel movement. They don’t understand the role of Aparna prana.

Rick Archer: Right. But presuming their bowels are all taken care of, then then, you know, sitting in meditation, I mean,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: thinking is that complete? Okay? Having a bowel movement alone is not enough. After bowel movement, many people take a shower. Many people don’t. Is that correct? Sure. Okay, when you don’t take a shower after bowel movement, your body is Thomas. Right? Because toilet paper doesn’t really wash doesn’t clean there. If I blow my nose in your tissue, and my nose is dry, and then you put a microscope on it, you will see a dance. You will see a dance of bacteria. Sure. Okay. Same way, the role of the toilet paper. It isn’t we come from war oriented societies, we do things fast, quick, we, we grab a hot dog and run, we grab a hamburger and run, we don’t have the time to relate, we don’t have the time to. I mean to, to even clean. We just don’t know how to clean. Most people, you know, they go into the shower, they turn the shower on on their head. When millions of years, we went to the ponds or to the lakes, to the rivers to the ocean, and we went with the feet first, not with the head first, too, there are proper ways to purify your physical body. There are proper ways to purify your own sacred sexual energy. second chakra mind has to experience its own satvik nature, only then can you deal with the mind of the ego, which is the third chakra mind. You know, you can use haphazardly, this method, this method, that method, but that’s like I don’t know, that doesn’t really take you anywhere in a way that if you had a proper guidance, a teacher that monitoring your growth, and taking you somewhere,

Rick Archer: sure, I mean, the English word for that is dilettante, meaning superficial dabbler, you try this, you try that you just be jumping around and never buckled down and I do anyone thing.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I do not mean to imply that everybody is a dilettante. But I do mean to move. I mean, that we don’t know how to clean ourselves, how to purify, to purification of the thought purification of the feeling, these are all thoughts, they will only be effective. If we first know how to clean our bodies. We don’t even know which direction to sleep. We don’t even know which posture to sleep. I mean.

Rick Archer: Okay, so there’s all that all these things and you place a lot of emphasis on that and let’s let’s and you know, we could talk the rest of the whole interview about personal hygiene and all that kind of thing.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: But hygiene is personal. I want to make it public

Rick Archer: public hygiene. But let’s not use up all we have to sort of skim along a little bit in order to cover all because many interesting things you have to say that we haven’t gotten to yet. Well, if you just dropped one just there which I think people will find interesting about sexual purity or purifying the second chakra, what would you have to say about that?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Just learn about the rhythm of your sexuality, which day of the moon is your sexual wave peaks. Feel that on your own not not because you are with somebody, then it will, it will react it will not act it will react. The first to understand your own sexual rhythm. Women are much better at it than men. But men can also with practice, observe their own if you work with the pronoun calendar, which is freely available on our website, and you will see that which day of the week your nostril is wrong.

Rick Archer: Explain that. Explain that about the nostrils because people might not understand that and how they alternate.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah. The way it works is this after the full moon night, the following sunrise, nature wants your right nostril to be more open so that the pronoun is directed towards the left hemisphere of the brain. right nostril is called sola Pingala. And when the left not when the left hemisphere of the brain is energized for the whole hour, from sunrise to one hour is all mentioned in the parameter render in the details when you read it for three days, that will persist that every morning. Your meditation should end with the sunrise and you check your breath. And if your right is open, congratulate yourself. Three days after the three days the left will take over me The single sunrise for three days your left will be dominant. You understand about dominant and recessive? Yeah. Any at any given time, the breath

Rick Archer: predominantly comes out of one nostril or the other.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. So after the full moon, it starts the cycle with the right after the new moon, start the cycle with

Rick Archer: the left, and I presume this has been tested and measured. And so my god for 1000s of

Shyamji Bhatnagar: years. Yeah, the recent brain research has also verified

Rick Archer: it’s probably been some studies on it. 19

Shyamji Bhatnagar: When was that? Professor Patricia Carrington, she was my student, a professor of psychology in Princeton, I’ve heard of her. She didn’t, yes, she introduced this study in Princeton. And they found it to be true, because she had a few 100 students who are experimenting with them. But they didn’t accept it. Why? Because I don’t

Rick Archer: know, doesn’t make sense to Western physiology. Exactly.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Right. You know, what they said was, the reason it is happening is because of the gravity when you lay down and one side is the gravity that’s causing it, which is also not true, because what is happening is, when you change the nostril by laying down, it drains your sinuses, to the other side opens up, which is a technique of how to correct your blocked nostril.

Rick Archer: When you do try Yama, and you and your alternate nostril says that somehow balance the the two sides of the nervous system,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: no, that will just cleanse your your Pingala and ego, so that you can breed deeply for the rest of the day, I am talking about Israeli yoga. So yoga means the yoga of breath. And then you will because it merges into the Naad yoga, which we will talk maybe related if you will have time. So it is because the hemispheric relationship you want to establish to be under your control. For example, if you have a feeling that the anger comes to you, if you notice her yoga, you can control it not more easily, then otherwise.

Rick Archer: Well, let me just interject a question that just came in from Michael in Davao in the Philippines. He says, What is the best way to manage anger when it arises in the moment? Can Can you explain how anger and managing anger relates to the chakras? I thought it’d be good to pop that question. And since you just managed mentioned it,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: isn’t that interesting that he was writing about anger? And I was talking about? Yeah, there’s some synchronicity there. Anyhow, anger is something that arises when you see something was not justified from your perspective. So the first thing you want to know is that is your justification, a universal quality, or your own individual, because the other person’s perspective may be totally opposite to yours. So the moment you start to put the other person’s perspective, your anger is already not dominating at that time. In the meantime, you start to reflect that is it a genuine reason to be angry? And most of the times, you will be able to find find resolve.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Because there’s a lot of anger these days in the United States, and probably other places, too. And there’s also a lot of polarity between different points of view, you know, and, and both points of view hate each other, and they’re angry at each other all the time. And then there’s all these violent outbursts, and what you’re saying is pretty important.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yes. And the other thing is to drink two glasses of fresh water

Rick Archer: in the morning to know when you’re feeling or when you feel angry, I see two glasses. What does that do for you?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: They just count you down.

Rick Archer: Ah, okay. Why what’s the mechanics of that coming down?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Because you see the water, what are your assembly 80% of water. Right? And when you drink water, it purifies the waters in your body and the first glass of water will go to your brain second will be distributed the rest of the body or the lymph node from the colon to that you can have a busy bowel movements and so on.

Rick Archer: So does this imply that dehydration can contribute to anger?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Absolutely. No doubt about it. Yeah. So what you do is you produce the problem is that when you are angry You don’t think because you are so taken over by the anger. So you really have to practice that, that when I am angry, when I am emotional, when I am sad, when you are not sad, you have to remember those things, once you become sad is difficult. So in other words, knowledge is very important before you make practice of it. You have to practice knowledge first. You know, that’s called sadhana, that spiritual work. No, Anger can also be subsided, you notice that when you are angry, your right nostril be more open? Invariably. So what you do is, you drink two glasses, you first of all you lay down and change your nostril. The flow should be in the left nostril.

Rick Archer: Do you do that by blocking off the right one?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, no, you lay down on your side, I see. You put a pillow under your armpit. And just rest for 30 seconds to a minute. And sinuses will drain and the left nostril will become open. Now you drink two glasses of water. You watch what happens to anger.

Rick Archer: You should have little places all along the road for people who get road rage can just stop lay down, get some water and go shooting people.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: They can drink water anyway. Because lay down. Yeah. You know, that’s good. If you have another driver in the car, and let them dry, and you go in the backseat and change your red. Yeah.

Rick Archer: It’s good to remember, obviously, people get into all kinds of fights and arguments and commit all kinds of crimes and end up in jail for years, you know, because of anger because of being caught up in some some lack

Shyamji Bhatnagar: of Yeah, anger and anger as much is lack of control over it. Yeah. I mean, you can’t get rid of anger. You can’t get into ego. You just have to learn how to use it properly.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but don’t you find? Haven’t you found in your own experience that, you know, as you’ve grown, as are in your students experience as they evolve? There’s there’s less of a tendency to fly into a rage about something. It’s sort of like you catch it before it even flares up.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly, yeah. Yes. The more older you get wiser you get, the more you can control your emotions.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Like you’re saying before about the horse, you know, riding the horse or being under the horse, it’s like, if you’re under the horse, the horse can run away with you. But if you’re riding the horse, then you know, you can sort of keep the horse going where you want it to go before it even gets, you know, going off in the wrong direction. There’s a question that came in from this one is also from Florence who asked an earlier question. She said, people and I come I come across this a lot. So I’d be interested to hear what you have to say. But people sometimes have very disturbing experiences with Kundalini awakening. In fact, next week, I’m going to be interviewing a woman who wasn’t even think didn’t know anything about Kundalini. And when she was about 52 or three years old, she had this profound Kundalini awakening had to figure out what was going on. And she’s very happy she had it now, but it was quite intense for a long time before she figured it out. So what has been your experience in dealing with such people? Whether or not their experience has been positive

Shyamji Bhatnagar: was Kundalini, which is the proper way to pronounce it? Kundalini Kundalini, now Kundalini, Kundalini, KU, and they’re gone, come? Yeah, deline.

Rick Archer: I swear I’m pronouncing

Shyamji Bhatnagar: it. Lucy, you’re seeing Kundalini? Oh,

Rick Archer: I’m saying I’m putting the Italian in it.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: If you miss a mistake on the part of Indian scholars who spell it miss spell it ah, for example, Kund A L, right. They are Cooinda. Yeah, but don’t put the A there. Okay.

Rick Archer: Kundalini, also the A is just very minimal.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: It’s not even there Kundalini when you write it in Sanskrit or Hindi, we can write the A,

Rick Archer: okay. Yeah, that’s why in your book, you have all these little tiny A’s wherever

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly, right. Yeah. Because most of the Indian alphabets, Sanskrit alphabets is implied in them. I say, for example, instead of use a K, like a cup. You say you say B, I say but you say C? I said Sir So, so it’s a

Rick Archer: net. Ah, okay. So to her question then about Okay,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: question is, Kundalini is a tournament energy that is in the base of the spine. And it only awakens after the seven sister powers of hers are awake, to make the pathway for the Kundalini to be able to rise in the proper channel, which is called the central channel. There was a Kundalini master, who did not have a teacher and he tried to awaken his own Kundalini. And he did, except it rose in the wrong side. It went up in the right channel. And it almost he almost died. Because that Gopi Krishna, that is correct, yeah, he had done. Yes, in a very hard time. I met him actually in Davos. He was making a presentation and so was I. And then I Lama was there as well. We were all making our own presentation of our work. So his problem was that he didn’t accept the authority of a guru. So he wanted to do it with the books. And look what happened to him. Yeah, he had to eat a leg of lamb every day to keep grounded. Exactly, yeah. Anyhow, back to the question of Kundalini. One of the sister powers when she arises, you go through this dramatic feeling. It is not Kundalini, it’s one of the sister powers. I can give you the names of them if you want. You know, that can you rock any lucky Saucony? Hockney cashmoney? Okay. So if you if you read the literature properly, as this lady, if she has ever read a book written by Arthur Avalon,

Rick Archer: oh, she has a been reading her book and she has mentioned him? Yes. He had

Shyamji Bhatnagar: mentioned him. Yes. So he will then know that there are seven sister powers, they named them to you. And any one of them can awaken and can give you an extraordinary feeling. That is not Kundalini. In fact, I tell you one thing. I’ve been involved with this field now for since the age of 12, nearly 13. So about 70 years, and in my 70 years of experience, I have never ever seen a human being who’s continuous awake.

Rick Archer: Even Even you grew up. It wasn’t. It was wasn’t okay. And presumably yours isn’t? You’re saying. So,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: working on the different Goddesses, okay.

Rick Archer: And so does that does Kundalini awakening or full Kundalini awakening necessarily coincide with enlightenment? Or can you be enlightened and yet not have your Kundalini awake?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: No, fully enlightenment takes place. When the Kundalini awakens without any obstruction, and rises in the central channel, to go into the Embrace with her counterpart, which is called Mahadeva. Shiva,

Rick Archer: and you’ve never encountered a person who has done that? No. Okay.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Unfortunately, maybe I have not met the right person.

Rick Archer: And why do you suppose it’s that?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I’ve been in St. Hampton since the age of 13. Right.

Rick Archer: And so when people think they have had a Kundalini awakening, are you saying it’s one of these seven sister powers that say,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Oh, they’re counterparts? Uh huh. Their counterparts are the two, it depends on the nature of the experience, whether it’s a destructive one, or is it a constructive one?

Rick Archer: That’s interesting, because there have been spiritual teachers so called, who seemed kind of remarkable in certain ways. They charismatic there may be eloquent, they may have seemed to radiate Shakti or something. And yet they’re, they’ve been very destructive in their behavior. And I’ve, I’ve often wondered about that and thought, Okay, well, maybe they have a partial Kundalini awakening, and it’s gotten mis directed and often some side channel or something. But you’re saying it might actually just be one of the sister powers.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Just leave the Kundalini alone. Just let’s talk about her assistance first. Yeah.

Rick Archer: So did you just say that the assistants have to be awoken before the Kundalini itself can be woken,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: they awaken, they awaken with your spiritual work, if it’s done properly, yeah, they will awaken. And then sometimes the gods awaken first. Sometimes the Goddesses awaken first. And then that’s why the teacher comes into the picture, who can either intuit that, and now you don’t need to intuit that you have micro chakra psychology. book in front of you, that will tell you what is your behavior like, what is the block what is the opening and you know in terms of having this Shakti pot and these CDs and powers, they are distractions from your own spiritual growth. I, I have a siddhi I use that every day

Rick Archer: which is the inner tuning

Shyamji Bhatnagar: to feel the microchip, right, right. I have a CD I can I can feel the difference between a block micro chakra and open micro chakra. Okay, it’s a siddhi did you I do I say that my Kundalini is awake. Oh, it is one siddhi

Rick Archer: Yeah. So would you say as a general rule, that unlike Gopi Krishna, one shouldn’t specifically do anything to try to awaken their Kundalini. It’ll awaken on its own when the time is right.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Exactly. Okay. Yeah, you do your sadhana. But when Krishna, Shri Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, Kermani, they are the Kairos. The Karma is all we are entitled to mahapariksha Padishah conduct, you know, the results are never to be contemplated upon.

Rick Archer: I like that verse.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah. Do your dharma do your karma? Let it happen. out of ignorance, we start to use words that are not even used properly, because we don’t know the real meanings of the word. Kundalini yoga, for example, it was he was a very clever yogi who was not even a yogi actually, he was a custom inspector, I don’t want to talk about personal lives of the people that I’ve known in my life.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I know the guy. He had a center down in New Mexico.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah, yeah. Anyhow, I’m not here to talk about all kinds of people with all kinds of motives. Yeah, including myself. What are your motives? My motives give to people to realize that they can take charge of their own spirituality?

Rick Archer: Would you say though, that, you know, these days, there are hundreds and hundreds of spiritual teachers of all different flavors and sorts and types? Do you feel like by and large are like, for instance, the 510 people I’ve interviewed, not, not all of them are teachers, but all kinds of people, many of them are teachers. My attitude is, nobody necessarily has the full picture, you know, but everybody’s making a contribution. And, you know, to use that that analogy from I guess it’s the Srimad, Bhagavatam, we’re all holding up our sticks. And, you know, God is really holding up the mountain and we think we’re helping holding up our sticks. But everyone’s making a contribution. And it just seems to be the way things are configured these days. There’s this many, too many kind of dynamic going on in the world right now. You don’t want to comment on that day.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I have no comment to make. Okay. Everybody has their own perspective. And it’s because people have the need, and therefore the teachers appear. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And, you know, many people seem to I know, they’re not dilettantes, but some people seem to derive a certain amount of benefit from a teacher for a certain amount of time, and people are definitely making progress. And then at a certain point, they feel like, wow, this guy is doing it for me. I think he’s taking me as far as he can take me. And then maybe they’ll pick up with a new teacher. And it’s like, when you fly someplace, you usually have a few connecting flights. And each connecting flight has its value. You know, you don’t just it’s not just the flight from New York to Paris. That’s important. It’s also the one from Harrisburg to New York or whatever.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Yeah, I agree with you that.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, so it’s just don’t get on a flight that’s gonna crash. Because you never know that in advance. Yeah. Okay, so there’s an interesting section in your book on a topic that I like a lot, which is, you speak about subjective science and compare it with objective science. And obviously, you know, modern science is usually the objective science that we learned in high school and so on. But the yogi’s have had a subjective science for 1000s of years. And I’ve always been interested in the comparison between them and the contributions that each can make I don’t think either one eliminates the value of the other, but I think together, they can be more than the collection of the two of them. You are

Shyamji Bhatnagar: right. In the tradition of the objective science, there used to be a psychology called vitalism. Yeah, vitalism which was eliminated for whatever political reasons that might have led to the subjective psychology, but because it was eliminated, shall I say? Many people don’t even know about it. David, my co author, he was an expert on vitalism. But since you play mine to play some Sam’s,

Rick Archer: okay, there we go. Yeah, you let me know when to come in. I’ll hear your voice. So we’re gonna play a selection from the CD that is in the back of your book. And yes, and you’re accompanying your we’ll hear your voice and it’s accompanied by the tambura instrument, which we see behind your right shoulder there.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: That’s right. That’s an instrument I played with Ravi Shankar and many other great musicians and singers especially

Rick Archer: so I’ll play a little bit less and then you just let us know when you’re ready. Relax?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: The beginning At the end of the day Rati Rati ID good Love it Monday

Rick Archer: Welcome back. Yes, I can hear you and we had that the music playing while you’re gone and people were listening to it and someone meant send in an email saying that was beautiful was what was that we were listening to

Shyamji Bhatnagar: which a mantra chanted for somebody who had severe depression. And it helped them a lot. So I thought, why not put it out so that people can buy it for many years? People were downloading it or buying it from our website. No, no, there was no down yoga. So right now it’s complimentary. They can download it from the website.

Rick Archer: Yes. Also, it’s on a CD that’s in the back of your book. Yes, that’s

Shyamji Bhatnagar: also one way to have it. And Shri Rati tree means sacred means auspicious. Rati is the mantra, which is opens up your heart so that your heart can then watch To involve itself, for the love of the divine in you, in micro chakra terms, fourth micro chakra of the sixth will open up when you hear this mantra properly, and if you charge it for some time, it can really help you. And when the fourth of the six is open, the goal of your life becomes enlightenment. Nice.

Rick Archer: While the music is playing a couple of people sent in an email saying that they would like to hear you finish what you were beginning to explain about how to purify the second chakra energy and Sexual Chakra energy. He began talking about how people have different cycles according to the time of month and all that. But then I think we got off on other topics. And you didn’t get to complete that that point.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Right? You see, the goal of sexuality is to find the right mate. And the right mate is not only just you’re finding your right mate, it is also who you will be able to parent together. So those are the considerations that the third chakra age people who fall in love between the ages of 12 and 18, for girls, and 14 to 21. For boys, that’s when people have the first experience, so to speak. And when constructive experiences are, God’s guiding your intuitive mind, you can find the right mate. So the purification, again, is of the thought, causal body. Sexuality is an instrument. It’s an object, you are the subject. Problem is that we have no University School, or a church or any place at home, where we can teach people to know the self, who is the self, because we live in, we live in war oriented times, we always have. There are not too many cultures that even had the concept of inverting the senses. pratyahara people when do embrace the religion, it was to ask for forgiveness for the sins, to ask for the forgiveness. So the unloving God will always love you. And then we do things totally the opposite. Is that you know, you commit sin, then you go and you confess, let me just say when you go and confess, it becomes a routine, it becomes a habit. And it doesn’t work that way. You will rob yourself of your own bliss of your own light, by believing in the old stories that may have been relevant at some people for some time. But they’re his story, his story. I can’t afford to give my life away. But his story, no matter how old the story is, and we are addicted to stories. Every baby, every toddler, every smallest child wants to hear a story before they go to sleep. We are addicted to stories. And then we start to take some stories more seriously.

Rick Archer: Well, just to add on to a follow up question on how

Shyamji Bhatnagar: to discover your own purity of your own sexuality by refining your own thought process. That’s why I mentioned the word metal tare that don’t lose touch with with your don’t gamble with your life. Think we have a thinking mind. We have a causal body. And brilliant and brilliant ideas will come once you open up that and in the age where we fall in love. Sexuality gets not enlightened, but it gets bonded bondage binding.

Rick Archer: So would it be fair to say as a sort of summary point that rather than being all worried about finding the right person, you should be more worried about being the right person you know

Shyamji Bhatnagar: exactly. You very nicely

Rick Archer: Yeah, and if you refine yourself enough, then everything else will You will attract fall into place similar

Shyamji Bhatnagar: kind, right? That way you will attract the similar kind. But if you keep on finding somebody that your ego loves, well, then that’s what will happen.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Maybe another way of putting it as if you don’t know who you are, and they don’t know who they are, then how can the two of you expect to have any kind of meaningful relationship, you know, to people who are just sort of stumbling about?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: So my favorite way to put it is one lonely person meets another lonely person. Now you have two lonely people together.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I suppose even a third way of putting it is, you know, if, if we’re, you know, there’s that beautiful saying in the 23rd Psalm, my cup runneth over. If you’re, if you’re a full, then you can give and if the other person is full, they can give if both people are empty, then that neither can give both are in sort of taking mode and nobody gives therefore nobody gets.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I remember my grandfather when said, He says, When the pots you know, pots, sure. Pipes and pans, pots and pans. Yeah, yeah. He said, When the parts travel together, the rattle. But the fuller they are, the less noise they make

Rick Archer: good. Another good one. Okay, so I hope we’ve answered that question. If there’s any follow up question on that the person and the people who send it in, feel free to send in a follow up question, we’ll deal with it. But here’s another

Shyamji Bhatnagar: thing also, if there’s a later afterthought, they can write to admin at chakra Okay. I mean, after the show is over, if there is a question, they can write to us directly.

Rick Archer: Yeah, if you want, I’ll even put that email address on your page on And they they know how to get in touch them. That would be great. Okay, good. This is an interesting question that came in from a fella named Bernard Blumenthal in Brussels, Belgium. He said, My identical twin brother and I live on opposite sides of the ocean. He’s in Chicago. I’m in Brussels. We’re both 60 years old and struggling with a slow and steady disintegration of our professional lives. While being hyper aware of both the general political strife on the planet and also predominantly the dire, nearly impossible future of our living living planet. He’s referring there to climate change and environmental collapse. Would a particular practice help us to become more pure, more relaxed, sane, effective and positive? Or is the planet situation simply a psychological burden to bear until our civilization collapses? And mass extinction gains us all?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: What a remarkable question. Yeah. I congratulate you for your concerns. I really do. I have two answers. One is at the individual level, and one will be at the universal level. At the universal level, choose the candidates that are concerned with your concerns. Individual level, get yourself a three body purification. At the individual level, when your own three bodies go through a period of purification, it takes five to nine days depending on where you, I do it around the world. They don’t

Rick Archer: explain the whole thing because this is the first time you’ve referred to that. So just tell us what that means. The whole three body purification,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: okay, three body purification means purification of your thought process, purification of your feeling process, and purification of the physical body’s organs, colon, liver, kidneys, it took me 40 years to develop this. And once I developed it, I tell you, people just the flock, the flock together to come in, they can’t hardly wait to have another one.

Rick Archer: This is an in residence program that you offer here in there. Okay.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: This place where I am right now. And New Hope Pennsylvania, we got this place to do purifications it’s very quiet. 1011 acres of woods. And we have six bedrooms. We don’t take more than 12 people. Maximum 15. Sometimes people like to sleep in the laundry room. Sometimes people do that because they they have to have it. And then we do one every year in Holland, which is not very far from Brussels. It’s true. Yes. Yeah, short training. In fact, I will be doing a workshop in Brussels as well. They can find my itinerary on the chakra You will know. Okay, so this purification I do in South America as well. Well, in Colombia, for example, every January, we do that over there, nine days, again, nine days in Holland, five days in France, five days, several times here in our copper Institute where I am being interviewed with you. So, because most people get most benefit from these purifications, and after that, I do more advanced workshops, where we can teach them how to do massage to themselves, is called inner tuning massage. Everybody who have come to see me privately, they get 115 minute, 20 minute, massage themselves. And then my assistant does that Marina Tolliver she is one of the people that I have trained in this. I have about maybe two dozen people around the world that are doing the inner tuning massage. Some of them are in Belgium, some of them in Holland, you will find all that information on the website. Okay, good. Now, the best part of his answer, his question is, when you choose the right candidates, they will make the planet become livable. It may even extend the life of the planet. And there are some advanced techniques that you can do. But I can only teach them after the purifications. And on the air. It is not fair.

Rick Archer: not feasible. Yeah. Yeah. But I think what you’re saying to summarize what you just said, is that, you know, yes, the world is a mess, and things need to be done on the political level and technological level and so on to to deal with, what a mess the the climate is, and, and so on. And Right. Right, leaders is important. But also, there we go.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Sorry to interject.

Rick Archer: Now, the problem.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I know many people who don’t vote, saying that it’s hopeless, we don’t want to be bothered, which I think is really unfair to live on a planet and not exercise your vote. The value of your vote cannot be overemphasized. But

Rick Archer: I’m listening to a show right now on TV. I haven’t finished it. But they said that the United States is about 100 and 32nd in the world in terms of voter turnout, voter participation. So that’s crazy. I mean, it’s it makes such a huge difference to have the right people as our leaders and people just don’t, of course, they a certain political party here makes it difficult to vote by, you know, making it as complicated as possible, suppressing it if possible. But you have to give the vote. Is that counted? Yeah, very often. Yeah. There’s

Shyamji Bhatnagar: a black priest actually interviewed and some television show. He said there are seven boxes of votes. Nobody came to collect them.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that kind of thing happens. There’s a suit going on in North Carolina right now where, anyway, we’d better not get off on that tangent. Yeah. But to Bernards point. And to your point, I think that there’s two elements is what needs to happen, like you said, on a universal level, on a national level, and so on. But also we have to become individually as fit as possible to withstand the challenges that undoubtedly, we’re already facing in life and that are could actually become much more dire and much more intense in the coming years. So, um, you know, who was it supposedly, Darwin supposedly said, survival of the fittest is a law of nature. So we have to be fittest as fit as possible. You know, I mean, let’s say a donkey has to carry a really heavy load this and he can barely struggle with it, there’s two ways of doing of dealing with it, lighten the load or strengthen the donkey. And unfortunately, I don’t think the load is going to get any lighter in terms of what the world is going through. So we all have to be as strong and fit as possible, right?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: When said, yeah.

Rick Archer: Okay, so, we’ve covered a lot of points. But undoubtedly, we haven’t covered. But there’s one more point I thought of, you know, on the whole sexual topic, again, have you used the word Tantra, and in many people’s minds, tantra is synonymous with good sex or something, or, you know, using spiritual practices to make sex more long lasting, are more interesting, or, or something. But then I hear more traditional Tantrics say, Well, that is, you know, just a misrepresentation of it. It’s just such a tiny aspect of it, and it’s unfortunate that the whole thing has become synonymous with that. So, um, you know, do you have any comments on the misuse of the word Tantra and the whole sexual connotation of it?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: As usual, I go to the origin of the word Tantra means a tool.

Rick Archer: But literally defined means a tool. Yes. Okay,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: except Tantra. Yeah. Tantra is actually, it’s a tool to achieve a goal. And there are two servants of the Tantra. One is called Yantra. What is called mantra Yantra is the form. And mantra is the name. When the form and the name are complementary, and the practice is purely intentional, that Tantra will be accomplished. And every Tantra gives you a siddhi a power. Eventually, we must develop the power in order to be able to make use of it in a state of surrender. Same thing is about the sexual Tantra. We must develop the technique, and then we surrender it. Who do you surrender it with your partner, but you first must understand how to develop a form and give a name to it, which is a mantra. So,

Rick Archer: what does it mean to develop it with your partner and then surrender it? What are you actually saying their

Shyamji Bhatnagar: sexual intercourse is not the only thing that a Tantra teaches. That’s only one part of it. Tantra should be how to make the marriage is success. Right? Okay. So sex is used as a glue to keep the bondage.

Rick Archer: Okay, and tantra obviously has much more to do much more that is much more even than marriage. I mean, it’s a whole huge body of knowledge, right? That has implications for even unmarried people.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: There are 1000s of Tantras 1000s. One of the Tantra is sexual. Rica, based on the second chakra Khurram Yoga is a third chakra Tantra.

Rick Archer: So there’s different mantras for all the chakras? Oh, yes.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Oh, yes. Because people are kind of obsessed with sexuality. Today interpret the word Tantra, okay, in a sexual way.

Rick Archer: Sure. Well, you know, relationships are an important thing for people. And very, very often they don’t work out very well. And they cause a lot of heartache and trauma. And so people want to be able to learn how to do it right, you know, and have good relationships. And so that’s why they’re interested in this stuff.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: See, the best way to beautify your own sexuality is to pay attention to your partner’s need. And if you will pay attention to her need and she pays attention to your need Tantra is accomplished. But most people you see they go for their personal needs. And that’s what creates a little problem.

Rick Archer: Yeah, like we were saying before about taking rather than giving Yes. Okay, well I hope that answers her question the woman from Switzerland and so we’ve been talking for a little over two hours. And is there anything you feel it’s important that you haven’t had a chance to say? I’m sure there are lots of things but you know what, what is it that you would really want to make sure to leave people with

Shyamji Bhatnagar: the gem of the teachings to go to bed early? Okay.

Rick Archer: That’s that’s interesting. As they you know, that old saying of course don’t you Early to bed and early to rise makes the travel there healthy, wealthy and wise. To Yeah. How early is early?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, depends on the winter and summer you know, in the summer, for example, the sun sets very late. So just after the sun goes down within half an hour, go to sleep. Wow. And in the in the winter, measured how many hours of sleep you need. If you need eight hours of sleep. You want to wake up at six o’clock because the sunrises but seven or something in the winter. She everything has to do with the sun. Just find out where you are located in relationship to the sun. The closer you are to the equator, the more easy it is for you to wake up early. It’s only when you are farther away. You need more sleep because you are not at home. equator is your home. That’s where the life began, at least a human. Or

Rick Archer: I have this friend here in town. And I discovered this thing where you can be notified by email when the International Space Station goes over and several nights I’ve gone out and watched it. So it’s really fun to watch it go over. So I told my friend, hey, tonight, it’s going over at 1002. And he said, I’m sorry, I go to bed at quarter of nine.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Now this man is a good candidate for spiritual work.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, he’s a spiritual guy. Okay, well, thank you very much. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. And I hope everyone else has. I will be putting up a page on bat gap calm with your photo and your bio and your link to your website. And I’ll put that email address you said admin chakra Institute calm, and your book link to your book and anything else you want me to put. And so people can get in touch with you and find out as you were saying, all the programs that you have to offer and when and where you’re going to offer them?

Shyamji Bhatnagar: Well, at 84, I’m still traveling three times a week, a times a year

Rick Archer: around the world. Yeah, well, that’s an inspiration.

Shyamji Bhatnagar: I really have a this is my passion to help people know themselves.

Rick Archer: Yeah. It’s great. And it’s a good example of what I mean you You are a good example of what you teach,

Shyamji Bhatnagar: you know, you see, the thing is this, if we are made up of light, supernova explodes, Star Dust makes planets. Star Dust makes this body does the we are particle of the star dust. And inside this cage, there is a light. And when you when you meditate, you see that light idea is to increase that light, day by day, day by day, day by day. And the time comes, it will reach your heart chakra, and your skin will start to radiate that light. Your eyes will have that twinkle of a baby because you are discovering your own inner light. And it’s only possible in the human birth. Whether or not there is another birth. I don’t know. But I know one thing. This life is under my control. Thank you for having me

Rick Archer: on. Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you. So to those who have been listening or watching, this is a ongoing series as most of you know. And there’s a few little things you might want to check out. If you’d like to be notified when new interviews are posted, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Also, and or subscribe to the email notification thing which you can find a link for on This exists as an audio podcast as well as a video so if you’d like to subscribe to that, there’s also a page on that. Yep comm where you can subscribe to it. And a number of other things if you just check the menus on that site. You’ll see what we have to offer there. So thank you so much. GMG a really enjoyed conversation. And good luck. I hope you are able to do this for many more years to come. God willing. And thanks to those who are listening or watching and we will see it for the next one.