Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann Transcript

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Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, Buddha the gas pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually Awakening people. I’ve done over 500 of them now. And if this is new to you, and you’d like to watch some previous ones, please go to batgap.com Bat gap. And check out the past interviews menu where you’ll find all the previous ones organized in several different ways. This program is made possible by the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it, and we’d like to help support it in any amount, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site. And there’s also a donation page which explains other ways to support it if PayPal is not your thing. My guest today is shake Berhanu Dean Herman shake burner Houdini is a contemporary mystic of the ancient Sufi tradition. And he was called to that path at a very young age. And even before it was called that path, he was a spiritual seeker who went through quite a few things. In his search, which we’ll be talking about. As a Sufi, he went through classic dervish training, which involves an intense daily practice of meditation and prayers under the direct guidance of his master, accepting his masters instructions for inner and outer life, including raising a family, extreme solitary spiritual retreats, pilgrimages, and regular challenging tests in daily life. He received direct transmission of the Nash Nash bond the Sufi order, one of the most ancient and authoritative of the 40 existing Sufi orders. I’ll skip a little bit of this because it’s fairly long. When Shaykh Bernadine was 18 years old, he invited to his hometown in Germany, the Grand Master and world God of the Naqshbandi Order. Shake Shaykh Would you please pronounce his name, he will do it properly.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: His name is Manana Sheaths. NASM Guinee.

Rick Archer: Thank you. And when you saw your master for the first time you fainted in the middle of the street. Brilliant. That’s interesting. Maybe rather than reading this, I’ll switch to you right now. What caused you to faint when you saw your master for the first time?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, it wasn’t planned not to faint. So I was just walking towards him and just noticed a light, going tense and more intense. And finally I just lost consciousness and fall down.

Rick Archer: Light was just radiating from him. Yes. Had you ever seen light radiating from anybody before?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Not like him like that? No. I have seen Krishna Muti like a half a year before him. And he also had a very, very strong presence is definitely one of the people I met that had the strongest presence. But the light he had was just extraordinary.

Rick Archer: Do you see light now when you encounter let’s say a highly evolved soul? Can you see lights radiating from them? Yes. Just just because these questions are coming to mind as you walk down the street, let’s say or go to the grocery store. Do you get impressions from the different people you encounter? Have the their degree of spiritual development?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, no, no, I don’t look at people like this.

Rick Archer: Okay. The reason I asked that is in part of your bio, it says as a radical lover of the Divine, you have an innate capability to convey that longing and are able to read the souls of people helping them to remember their own origin destination and their task on this earth. So I suppose you have to like specifically focus in doesn’t just happen as you walk down the street or ride a bus, right? Right. Okay, good. Okay, this is nice. I think I’ll continue reading some of this as an appointed shake or shake being spiritual guide right? You were trained to develop an AI to detect the expressions of beauty in life, whatever shape they may take. You were taught that in order to become human beings, we are called to practice love and respect toward the Creator, through the creation and his creatures. You We’re taught gratitude for everything that you had and that you did not have. Your teacher replaced in you the feeling of the need to strive in life with an unshakable, joyful faith that everything good or bad is coming from the same loving source, and that it carries a message and a teaching for our evolution. Your teacher finally provided you with the means and drive to present a life changing Self Realization method called the wases system. And we’ll be talking about that a little bit later, in a modern and universal key beyond any belief or requirements. And for 30 years, you’ve been leading retreats and meetings all over the world, teaching that system and helping people awaken to the real meaning and purpose of their lives, and to remind them of their highest origin and destination and to help them to live a life of the heart and peace, happiness, creativity and gratitude, whatever their circumstances may be. So I ended up reading most of that anyway, but it’s very nice. One thing I really like about I’m not by any means an expert in Sufism, I’ve interviewed Llewellyn, Vandy, and Kabir Kaminski, I think that pretty much and also Andrew Harvey, that’s pretty much the extent of the Sufi interviews on BatGap. But one thing that always comes across which I really, really appreciate is the heart to couple of things. One is the heart value, lots of expression of love, but you don’t always hear, you know, in spiritual circles, sometimes they they tend to be kind of dry. And, and also a lot of talk of God, which you often also don’t hear, you know, sometimes it’s just sort of, you know, there’s just not much appreciation for the divine as such, you know? Yeah, there’s some lack of heart, maybe, okay, maybe you could comment on

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: that. Well, you know, God is, and he is, in a way, so absolutely present in our life in our existence, that if you will experience it one day, it will be a shock for you to understand how much he is in control over everything, that he is behind a resort that is behind every movement, that he is behind everything which happens, seen and unseen. And once you witness that, it also will liberate you from fears. No, because you see that the source is loving that the sources, supreme intelligent, that is all powerful, and all forgiving. And, yeah,

Rick Archer: you encouraged me to read a book called Love is the wine. And here’s a quote that I found in that that speaks to what you just said, God says, I am closer to you than your jugular vein, God is that God is that close to within you and completely surrounding you. Everything around you is God, you are like a fish in the sea. You cannot see God unless God chooses to be visible to you. And God will become known to you in a way that is different from the experience of anybody else. So you will never be able to convey fully your experience to another. Nice. So since we’re talking about God, let’s let’s talk about God a little bit more. Obviously, many people in the world don’t believe that there is any such thing. And other people in the world believe there is but they don’t think in terms of being able to experience God, they just think, well, this is something I should believe in because I’m told I should. I’ll go to hell if I don’t believe this. But Sufism, as well as some other traditions emphasize the importance of direct experience.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: But the thing is, you know, the first God we create is our mind. And there’s the one God we worship, that mind we have doubts about everything, but we have never doubt about the quality and the superiority of our mind. So, and the mind is an unstable entity. And so, it always lives in life of wet legs, something where it is never receiving enough to be in peace, no matter what you have been given, there is always a leg somewhere. And so, our prayers go always in this way to the Divine that we that he says, If you exist, you should take better care of me. You should take better care of this world. You shouldn’t allow that all these ugly things happen and so on and so on. So it is impossible you see to to convince somebody about exists sense of the Divine, and are actually, we don’t try to do that. And in the system, which has been given to me, it doesn’t play a role, if you believe or you don’t believe, no. So I don’t like to make it a matter of discussion, we there is nothing we can win in it, you know. And therefore, it either you’re either called by the Divine or not. And how he does that, or how it is happening in this is in his in his wisdom and his intelligence, and it cannot be granted to anyone. And also even you are called, it doesn’t mean that everything is fine now. But the call means that you’re called to make your homework on Earth, that you start to work in your life, about your unconscious points in you. And that you start to observe yourself and to allow the truth inside of you to see it.

Rick Archer: Regarding belief in God, I mean, two people could stand outside a restaurant and have an argument about whether the food in there was good or not. And then they could starve to death doing that, you know, but the point is go in the restaurant and eat some and then you’ll you’ll settle the argument

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: you know, in Sufism, we don’t missionary and is anyone, right? We do not try to convince people or to argue with people. That is not the way we do it. But we try to invite people

Rick Archer: to see for themselves. Right, exactly. How did I mean, these days? You know, there’s a lot of controversy about Islam and you know, all that. We don’t have to dwell on the nature of the controversy, everyone’s aware of it. How did Sufism arise? Did it splinter off from the original Islam? Or? And what is it? What is its relationship to Islam? Now? Both ways I mean, how the Sufis regard, mainstream Islam and how the mainstream Muslims regard Sufism?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No enough, first of all, also, it’s very impossible to talk about Sufism in general, and to talk about this Sufis in general. But let’s say like this, most paths of Sufism, which exist nowadays are very linked to the Islamic world now. And like in every religion, you try, if you follow it, you try to fulfill it with reality, no, which means you look to the source. So if you look to Jesus, and you look to Christianity, nowadays, you can look to the church, the look to all the churches, they not necessarily in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, or whatever, but all of them, they have a value, I will not dare to say there is no value in that and we don’t need them. To see also, for example, was a teacher who talked very geniusly very brilliantly about things know about religious topics and so on. But what we would have talked, if there was no religion, you know, if there was no tradition he could talk about. So, the traditions, they have a great value, and you have to understand them of their roots. You have to, you have to really comprehend what you are doing, if you follow a path, a religious path, and to fulfill it with your truth will you reality, no. And then it doesn’t matter if you call yourself this or that, first of all, we are human beings, and that is the the work we have to learn to become human, we are not yet human. Now, we are killing every day. In this planet, we have incredible behaviors towards nature. So we need to become human. Now, this is our common task. And there is no place in arguing which way is better or which way is wrong or what what are the mistakes. We act we have to act now. You know, and I think this is the purpose of the system, which has been given to me that time is running. We are in an urgent situation on many levels. And we just have to find a way to communicate with each other friendly. And our common interest should be towards the truth, the inner truth. Yeah,

Rick Archer: energy. That’s the key phrase right there. because, you know a lot of times religions primarily focus on various beliefs and codes of behavior and you know, rituals and things like that, but the mystics of every tradition, you know, focus on some deeper inner experience that is possible to attain. And I presume that that’s the primary focus of Sufism. Right, yeah. So, what is that inner experience as understood by Sufism, and how does Sufism go about enabling people to access it? Again, that may be a broad question, because there are very many different branches of Sufism, but Sufism as you understand and practice it,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: but first of all there is you have to understand there is an ego, which is a life in us. And that is the shadow of your real self, let’s call it like that. And once you you start to observe yourself with the intention, that is the most important that you understand what is your intention in life? What is what is the meaning? Why you are life for yourself and where you want to go in your in your life, and where you want to reach also in your life, in inner ways spoken nine, the the inner intention, right? So one genuine thing is that everyone suffers. Everyone lives under a certain confusion. And the path is every spirit. Reasons for that confusion, what are the reasons for your pain? No. Then we go on a loop to anger, we look to sadness, we look to fear and all those things, no, to really work it through. And by that way, you learn to know that you are the source of your own fate. Yeah. Like, in the, like God started the game. No, we call it the game of Lila, the game of one source. And in this game, you have two ways to play it. He call it the multiplayer mode. And the single player mode

Rick Archer: does a video game

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: we have to find some words now. So in the multiplayer mode, you’re in, in this situation that you look outside of yourself and you say I cannot be happy, because my wife is not recognizing me. For example, now, I cannot be happy because I’m very sick or I cannot be happy, because my situation in the flat is not good enough or I don’t have enough money now. And this is the multiplayer mode, which means you make circumstances others responsible for your own inner state. Now, also the outer state and the single player mode is is the divine mode is that you understand you are the source of of what is unfolded in your life. What you are is what you attract and when you can take responsibility on that, when you understand that this like this, that there is no other possibility than this, then you can also act rather than react permanently. And in this acting, there is a power there is a sense of empowerment, there is a happiness there is a joy. And you have to accept that the truth goes against you in the beginning, especially now. So the real self in Sufism is the no self it’s a no self it has zero point. There’s not another set of it’s just no self

Rick Archer: kind of like shunyata or something in Buddhism emptiness thing.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, you could, you could say that in a way. You know, emptiness is not an easy word because we have someone who has emptiness you know, using you no one wants to go to emptiness. That is not really what you can intend for. So I’m usually don’t talk about emptiness. Because it is the emptiness is a full emptiness. So what the body it’s becomes ridiculous to talk about emptiness.

Rick Archer: That’s a good phrase there. It’s a full emptiness. There’s this thing in the Vedic tradition of poor Nevada and shunyata Shinya vitamine sort of emptiness porn about him its fullness. And, and it said that you know that it has both those qualities, you know, in a sense, it’s empty of content or or concreteness, but it’s full of potentiality.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: We can say it’s empty of you. It’s empty of drama. Yeah. And it is full of bliss. Yeah, nice.

Rick Archer: So how does Sufism help a person shift from multiplayer to single player mode? Is it just by imparting an understanding? Or are there some actual practices involved that help to structure your thinking are

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: those many practicing things in the system, usually we start to observe about complain that they would be the first work. And in that work of complaint, we, we suggest to people that they should concentrate on little things. And, and the little things is what we don’t want to look at, you know, like, give us any more, for example, would be to, to look at weather, which disturbs you, or the coffee is cold, or the neighbor didn’t greet you, as you would have wished it, you know, there will be a little thing now, for example, or just to realize how you feel physically inside yourself, you know, just to connect to that. And, and we, we do not just talk about the big issues, you know, because in the drama mode, we always concentrated on these big things that, like, my relationship is a disaster, or my professional is a disaster, whatever it is. And we don’t go there, we go to the little things first, if you learn to master the little things, now, if you can, can have this capacity to be tolerant and to accept little issues, now that the coffee is cold and the weather is not as you like, and it doesn’t shake you permanently doesn’t occupy your permanent, you know, that is a step. Now that you expand, somehow, you become a bit more capable to carry yourself No. And then we work ourselves through different subjects coming to roles and all this stuff. And then in the more advanced points, we go to anger, sadness, fear, those are the protectors of the ecosystem, the main protectors, and then we have of course, certain kinds of meditations, certain kinds of singing, singing is very important. We sing a lot and everyone should follow. A good way to eat also. So in the dervish tradition, we recommend to every man especially to be able to cook that he has to learn to cook so that the little one in him is not so depending, yeah. And, and has to ask his wife always to be his mother. Yeah. But that he can cook especially when guests come that he’s able to cook and say, Okay, no problem we, we cook, and it should be more than just cooking pasta, pasta, every man can cook, no spaghetti and tomato sauce. Not every man can cook that but we we like to, that he can create a little more than that. And then to be conscious about what we eat. No, it’s very important. No, we know now by science that the stomach is a second brain and has a lot of input to our moods to our ways we feel in life. So very important. No to learn to cook

Rick Archer: as nice. I would, I would definitely have to do some remedial homework on that. I make a good grilled cheese sandwich that I can bake a potato but I was a kid I used to make cakes. No, I like that. It’s a do you do the worldly? Your order?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, no, in my older we don’t do the whirling. Even so there are some worlds but it’s not actually what we teach. Okay.

Rick Archer: One thing I read, I read an article that friend sent me there was a quote from the jumped out at me and said, some spiritual paths are very focused on the mind with practices aimed to clear the mental state team thoughts and attain a calm equilibrium. These cooling meditative practices bring equanimity, tranquility and clarity of mind. The mystical practices of Sufism are hot practices in that they are working with the heart and igniting the fervor of passionate wild love. What do you have to say about that, quote?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: We can say that the center of our life energy is not in our head now. And you feel that when you have a headache for example, you don’t call the ambulance and say I’m really in life danger, you know, but if you have a heart heart problem, you know, if you have pain very strong in the heart, you call the ambulance. Because you understand that your life power is there. And so the the heart, physical heart, but there is also a spiritual heart is the thing we concentrate on. And we tried to be in connection with this heart, which means to be in connection with life. Know,

Rick Archer: that quote, I just read kind of implies that it’s a either or choice between having a quiet calm, mind, you know, equilibrium, or having the sort of wild fervent love. But don’t you think that one can have both that one can have sort of a deep, peaceful mind and at the same time rise up up in great waves of devotion?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Of course, there is no there is no conflict between mind and heart. No. So we have to understand how we bring the energies in the right position. Mostly people, as we said before, worship their mind. And it is the only thing which they feel secure about, that their mind is everything they have at the end of the day. And so it’s very difficult to let go this mind and to understand that actually, the reason for trouble is in the mind, you know, where else it should be, you know, so of course, we have to work with the mind. Yeah. And we have to find a way that you understand, for example, not to sing, or to think less is just an intention is not something which rains down from heaven, you know. But of course, if you’re if your center is the mind, it feels like you die. When you when you intend to stop thinking, oh, it just takes training. To do that, you know, it takes training, to let the mind come down. And to understand that you can be happy. Because the ego is a pain system. It’s a pain body, it needs pain to survive. So we create permanently structures and sentences in ourselves, which makes sure that we always have enough pain, no. And to become aware that we want to be happy, and at the same time, we don’t want to be happy. Yeah, this is a very important step. No, not to play this game all the time. Would you save that you think, oh, I want to be happy, you know, but everything in your life shows that you create situations that reduce conflicts, don’t just think

Rick Archer: that’s an interesting comment. Sometimes I get the feeling that people on the who like to argue on the internet, are just trying to keep their ego alive. I know two people in particular, who’ve been fighting with each other for about 20 years in various internet chat groups, pretty much ever since the end of that started, and they’re still going at it. And it’s like this, this distinct feeling that they just it sort of aggrandized as or calcifies or, or concretizes, the ego and keeps it alive, you know? Yeah.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, I mean, the internet is a platform, which is ideal for the ego to unfolded. No, that is no doubt about it.

Rick Archer: And I guess, part of that fighting is the conviction that Well, I am right, and you are wrong. And so it kind of reinforces the sense of duality or separation. And whereas, you know, if we could maybe see it from God’s perspective, there’s all these different, you know, points of view, each of which have their validity in the big picture.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: But we have to, and we have to accept that in the in the kernel of our side of series, this law, that I am right, it is this pillar of the ego system now, and you cannot think that way, you have to experience your non importance, you know, you have to go to the zero point. And that means that you have to come down your drama, that is not so easy, you know, because everything happens in the drama, and that is the pain machine, which we need to make it on going on. And that’s why we of course, like to play the multiplayer mode. So one of those fighters in the internet says as long as he speaks like this, I have to speak like that. Because I have to truth, you know, so I have to protect people. I have to inform them. I have to clarify things. You know, I’m a fighter for the truth. That’s what both of them probably think. So that’s why we say in Sufism, the other one is right.

Rick Archer: That’s interesting. there. Yeah, there’s a line from Bob Dylan from one of his songs. He said, You know, you’re right from your side, and I’m right from mine.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah. That’s nice. Yeah.

Rick Archer: I heard you say in one interview that Sufism regards difficulties and traumas in life, as growth opportunities, like these things aren’t just happening because God doesn’t exist or because God is mean or anything like that. They’re, they’re happening, because we like to take a metaphor, let’s say the mother is scrubbing dirt from behind the child’s ear, and the child hates it and is screaming and it thinks the mother is punishing him, but really, the mother is doing something to help him

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: right. Now, all the all the divine invitations are usually through trouble. Learning System makes us humble. If we could become sick, for example, it gives us a kind of humbleness. And if the wife runs away with another one that also humbles us down, you know, and it is important that we understand that nothing that existence never is against, you know, this is a very, very, very big point to understand. But we are against existence. So what we do with life, is that we separate our life from us, we say, I am very highly developed already, you know, I’m, I’m quite close to the enlightenment, you know, but my life, my life isn’t something else, you know, my life that has some difficulties and this and that, you know, and, and we separated. But that is one thing you have to stop your life is what you are in every aspect. So what is fine in your life? That something you have worked about it? And what is not fine in your life? That’s something you need to work about it? So life is a master No. And when one of many, yeah, this is one big one.

Rick Archer: Because even enlightened people can have can appear to have difficulties like Ramana Maharshi got cancer, for instance. But when you see the way he handled it, you know, I mean, his his disciples saw him suffering, apparently. But he would say, you know, I’m not suffering, how can I possibly suffer?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: disappoint that you can have a perfect situation outside spoken, and you’re depressed. And you can have a very difficult situation, and you’re happy, because it is not the situation which makes it this your beingness which gives you the joy or not, it’s not from the outside to the inside, it’s from the inside towards the outside. And the body is something we have to accept that it falls apart in time. We cannot prevent that. And people like Amina, of course, they were very special ones. And it’s difficult to say to speak about them, how they were and why did he has cancer, you know, and he was so advanced. Now, I don’t like this kind of talking. Because it is not appropriate. Well, everybody

Rick Archer: dies from something, you know, everybody dies. Today every saint that ever walked the earth.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: But in our in our new world, it is always like this, that when someone has cancer, it means you’re pressing something or he has some kind of what hidden issues, you know, you know, the psychology of the origin of sicknesses. No. And I find it very respect less to say that to somebody you know, I can even do is yeah, it can be cool and also is not properly it is not our business. It least it is not my business. So

Rick Archer: that’s a good point. And even if karma has something to do with it, I mean, who can who can calculate karma, you know, who can work out all the details of why something might happen to somebody, it’s really not in our human intellects capability.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: In Sufism, we don’t go about karma because it’s enough to be in The Now you know, it’s enough to be to look in this life for a good reason. People cannot remember what has happened before this life, right? And those who can or think they can. Maybe they also wouldn’t really die for that. You know? So, a few people. If it is like this. It can be but you see, if you don’t believe in reincarnation, yeah, you have an advantage. Because simply if another life happens to you, you did your best in this one life. No. And if it doesn’t happen, you also didn’t do anything, so the more intelligent position is to let those things out, you know, and other

Rick Archer: rather than not not reach firm conclusions about it, but just leave it as an open hypothesis,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: a rather complicated life, you know, and most people I know, they have been always something very important in their past lives. And now they are just ordinary people. No. So there is no need for that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you’re saying that Sufism doesn’t have any, what is Sufism, his perspective on, you know, either reincarnation, or what happens to people after they die, or what happened, where they were, before they were born? Is there any kind of philosophy about all that, when life

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: has no end, the life which is given to us has no end, we’re an infinite soul, we have life life, we have been given life as an infinite soul. No. So we we have been given an eternal life.

Rick Archer: And, but a very temporary body with

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: a very temporary body, and if that body comes back, if that if you come back on Earth, again, in this world, this dimension or not, that is not really important to you will stay alive, and there will be always a time for you, and there will be always a space for you. And then, according your own development, you come closer and closer to divine presence again, and when they will dissolve back to the origin. No. And so

Rick Archer: you’ll then cease to exist as an individual, because you’ll drop will merge with the ocean, is that the idea? No,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: there is a point where you give up individuality in Yes, because individual individuality is a is a an illusionary state. You know, it doesn’t really exist there is of course, we talk now very high level, you know, so usually those things, you know, we do not talk in public. Because it is not for everyone. We concentrate on the person who is in front of us, you know, and all those higher things, we keep them private.

Rick Archer: Okay, well, let me just be private, between you and I and 6000 people who watch this. Because I was thinking of asking you about, you know, we were talking about Ramadan, and all that thinking of asking you what the Sufi understanding is of higher states of consciousness or enlightenment, and things like that. And based upon what you just said, I want to add the question of, you know, can you be, can you totally merge with the universal and no longer have any shred of individuality and yet be living in a body? Or if you’re living in a body? Is there still going to be some remains of individuality in order to function as in a body?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yes, as long as you have a body this body, there is an IMS has this I am this travels with you, as long as you have a body that can be at the end, even the Light Body, whatever it is, that this Ironmans is with you, you know, right?

Rick Archer: If you hit your thumb with a hammer, you’re going to know it, there’s a there’s a person there that feels it, for example. And how about the idea of higher states of consciousness and enlightenment and all that? Do you have a whole cadre of closer that?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Sure, there is a cosmology? I don’t think it’s very different than to other traditions, you know, we have different names like we start with NASA llamada, which means the critical self accusing self, which accuses everything, then we have NASA why am I so distinguished itself? Which asked himself, what is the higher meaning for example, in life? No. Then we have the state of NASA Mahima, which is the longing self, that is someone who is completely clear about that he has to work in this life and inner work, then we have NASA would mean that is to pacify itself. No, and NASA Camila and so on, and so on.

Rick Archer: So for instance, you could interpret somebody like Ramana or Papaji or Nisargadatta, or something like that, and there would be a Sufi name for the state that they had, perhaps is. Okay, and you’ve been involved in Sufism for 30 years and interacting with probably hundreds and 1000s of different people. What kinds of transformations have you seen in all the people that have gotten in volved in Sufism, do you see like huge changes in people’s lives and personalities?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: I have seen, and that’s a nice thing, I have seen many changes in people, you know, during the time we are working, and especially in the latest years, there is definitely an increase of awakening going on. Yeah. And also the interest, for example, when I started the work, you know, the usual customers were people who had some drug experiences, or some of these some that, you know, coming from meditation, whatever. Now, I have just normal housewives with me, you know, I mean, in good respect. Sure. Yeah. Or people from very common back, and, you know, like, so called normal people positively. Normally, I know, John. Yeah. And they, and they start to be interested in the, and that gives me a lot of hope, and joy to see that.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think that’s happening, and all the systems around the world, you know, back in the 60s or early 70s, it was the hippies that are getting involved, and stuff. And now you have yoga classes in the local YMCA, and you know, people are, but that leads to the next thing, which is people start getting interested in spirituality in a deeper way, and people from all walks of life. So that, actually, that leads into a question I was going to ask you, which is that, you know, do you personally or Sufism in general, have a view about the spiritual evolution of humanity and the expansion of collective consciousness? Do you think you see the world kind of waking up in a in a larger way?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, we have to see that no, this is like a race. Yeah. In our tradition, we, we know that there have been humanity’s before us on this planet. And they all failed. Yeah. And now, it looks like that we are also on the way to fail

Rick Archer: very, possibly Korea,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: but if we don’t wake up radically, or with our behavior towards nature, I mean, there is no doubt about it, that we can go in a very bad time, but everything can happen, you know, Rick, everything can happen. And if you have seen the divine power, you know, you have no doubts that everything can happen. So, I would never take hope away from people. But I can also say it is urgent. And this is why we are doing what we are doing, and why I see other people doing what they are doing, you know, and we just even I mean, smallest particle, you know, but I have to try to do the work now. Yeah, to become a human, to become to have a day without conflict. And that’s what we have to reach as a humanity, we have to become humans. And this would be the mission.

Rick Archer: I agree with you. I feel and perhaps you feel as well, that the this upsurge in interest in spirituality that we’re seeing around the world is kind of a response to the severity of the problem, you know, the directness of the situation. And it’s not just that humans are thinking, Okay, I’ll get involved because the world is in bad shape. It’s more like the Divine is impelling. Humans to, for it to feel that way to, to arise in that interest,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: especially in the reason times, I think that people can experience or do experience, that the pressure increases in their lives, that that there is transformations going on, you know, that there is things changing. And we are facing this period now. Yeah, this is clear.

Rick Archer: Yeah. It’s kind of like you were saying earlier, when we’re, you know, difficult situations are not just God, it’s not God being mean, to us. It’s, it’s God trying to wake us up or teach us something. And so maybe that as humanity, we’re facing difficult days, for that very reason.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Our life energy is very much locked in our wounds, you know, and that’s why we have to start there. You know, we, in our system, for example, the first relationship we look to it is between mother and father, you know, towards Mother and Father. And that’s a very, very important thing that you become, that you come into peace with your mother with your father, you know,

Rick Archer: so is there an emphasis on respecting one’s parents as there is it’s not

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: only respecting, it is honoring, honoring, honoring them. And everyone has to honor his mother for a simple reason because she has been the door for your existence. And it’s not only to respect Your mother, but it’s to honor your mother, and to honor your father as well. And because they have been adore to you existence to our existence. And just to do this point, that is important to say thank you, Mama. Thank you, papa. And I don’t know if you have children,

Rick Archer: no, but I was one where you

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: were one. And there, so you had a mother, and maybe you can still feel the stream of love coming from your mother to you? Yeah,

Rick Archer: I do. And even my father, who was an alcoholic, and, you know, kind of a messed up guy. In fact, my mother was in and out of mental hospitals, but and it was, it would have been hard as a child to feel that sort of love and devotion to parents who were so dysfunctional, although naturally, I did love them, but there was a lot of strife in the family. But you know, 50 years later, I look back and the gratitude is much stronger, you know, and I realized they did the best they can,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: is, that is the point, you know, we do not have to look further than the beginning, you know, that’s in the beginning, there is a certain reason why you have chosen your parents as you chosen them. But if you look at yourself, now, now, you are a person who does give a lot to people, who does a lot of work for making other people to live a better life or to become more conscious, you know. So, something has happened very good in your in your childhood, that’s no doubt. Because if you if you listen, if you listen to yourself, now, it could sound like you should be a wreck, you know, like your mother, alcoholic, you father, alcoholic, your mother many? How comes that you came out? So when, you know,

Rick Archer: I said, so my mother one time I said, Mom, you know, I’m, I’m really happy the way the way my life is going. So whatever you did, you must have done the right thing. And I really appreciate it. And she really enjoyed hearing that.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, and one thing she did is to love you, you know, in all her dysfunctionality, there is something which cannot dysfunction, in is the love of the mother, because it comes from her soul to your soul. And what happens in the ego mode, you know, is not the most important. So, that stream is still with you. And you will see it when you come from this world. You may you may see your mother again. And you will understand that she was always there for you.

Rick Archer: Or you know, as I understand that Sufism is very much about culturing the heart. And it’s it would seem that, you know, that that would kind of start with your parents, because that’s your primary relationship when you’re young. And then it would go on from it would build upon that platform to other things, you know, your your spouse, and your children. And your your larger society, your community in your whole world. But it kind of starts right where you’re born.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah. That’s why it is so important to make the beginning good, and to look good at the beginning.

Rick Archer: That’s a beautiful point. Now, we haven’t, at some point during this conversation, I want to talk about your early your personal life more and some of the experiences you went through. And I also want to hear some stories about your teacher because I’m, I understand that your teacher was highly revered and remarkable presence in the Sufi world. And I bet there’s some interesting stories about them that would, you know, make you that you would enjoy telling and that people would enjoy hearing. So let’s do both in the next coming minutes. Talk a bit about your earlier life and background and some of the more significant milestones that you have experienced in your life. And also, let’s talk about your teacher. We can do it in whichever order you wish.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: But you tell me,

Rick Archer: okay, let’s talk about you first, although I’m sure you’d want to put your teacher first but I heard some interesting stories in your interview with Ian Mcnay on conscious TV. And you were a seeker from an early age you went to India as you said earlier today you met Krishna Morty. You were looking for a guru in India, you went through all sorts of things. Talk a little bit you read Carlos gusta NEDA you practice some of his stalking technique, walking in the forest. So touch upon what you consider to be a few of the highlights of your your search you know, that led to your finding super Sufism and some of the you had some kind of powerful personal experiences, some of which almost left you incapable of functioning in the world for quite a while. All right, let’s cover some of those things. For starters.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, I I was interested in spirituality in a very, very young age, I was like seven years old when I can consciously remember it. And we 10 My first book I bought was about tantra, I had to bring my mother in the bookshop, so that the guy would give me the book, you know, and I can’t really tell you why it was like this, you know, this is something I can’t really give you a reason for it. But it has been always in my life like that. And I started to practice yoga with 10. I got the book, and I tried to imitate the things, you know, as best I could. And I also forced my mother to do yoga with me morning. But she stopped it after she fell asleep, Mr. Work once. So she gave it up. And I spent most of my days in the forest. No, usually, this was my daily life I was after school, the first thing I would do to go to the forest and spend my day in the forest. And in the more growing elder, I stayed overnight, very often in the forest. And this was my home, I can say. And I became interested in Buddhism, on a certain point also, can’t really tell you why. But it was like, somehow coming to me. And I entered in the school of the Karmapa, the old come upon, no. Oh, yeah. In Tibetan Buddhism, yes, Tibetan Buddhism was even so I was more attracted by sandwiches, but somehow it went in this in this direction. And, and I met a lot of llamas and nice people in German. When or were in Germany. Yeah, well, I was a child to visit and they came and I went down. And, but somehow, I never felt really home there. You know, there was always always a point missing, you know. But it was a nice time. And, and meditations. They were also nice. And, yeah. So I have thought always that my master would be more in that direction, like a yogi, or a Buddhist? No. And when he arrived, I was overwhelmed. Just simply No, I would not ever have considered to enter into Islam. You know, this would have been my last perspective. But it became my first perspective. You see, so so far about the mic? No. And you see love can change everything in one moment. Now. And in my in my case, it did. No.

Rick Archer: And what was this experience you told me and about being at a waterfall and then experiencing going on into the light and then being you had to come back and all that?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, I was in India when I was 18 years old, and I lived in the Himalayas. And one day, I went for an excursion up in the Himalayas, and there was this waterfall. And somehow, I felt that the waterfall would enter inside of me, and I got out of the body, and they moved up, up. And they came to the Divine Presence, let’s say and, and I said, I want to stay here. I want to I want I don’t want to come back. And the divine said, No, you can’t. You can’t stay here you have things to do. And there is people they need you. And I said no, there is only my mother. There is nobody else, you know, she will she will take it. You know, it was some I don’t know why I said that. But this I tried to argue no. However, there was no way and they could send back in the body,

Rick Archer: which was the body

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: mass, difficult to say. But some hours maybe a certificate to say could be also less. I don’t want to exaggerate. You know, it’s difficult, really difficult to say time. But yeah, I think it was maybe two hours or something like this. And after that, I went into a three months of silence, you know, and which was good there in my experience, yes, there in the Himalayas, and I was communicating with my friend who was with me, bye. Bye, little, little notes. No. And to come out of the silence was a very difficult thing. In fact, and I would have actually liked to Stay inside, but it was stressful, you know, in a certain point for the environment no and, and I wouldn’t want to run around with a with a sign that says I’m inside. So something like this. And I understood that there is also an equal part in it, you know. And so I was saying come back to be normal. And

Rick Archer: another part would be, I am the unusual yogi who stays in silence and are die special, that kind of ego not

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: only this, but to force people into views as others. Yeah. And yes, that that is an equal part, you know, and and somehow, it made was this distort, you know, that I was now in the silence, you know, I learned to enjoy silence. And it’s fine now, you know, and now I’m just be with people, you know, normally.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I’m sure you realize now that silence can be there, even if you’re speaking and doing things. There’s underlying, deep silence. Yeah. And then, then you also said something to Ian about being in some really profound state for about three years where people practically had to take care of you is, what was that? And how, what shifted you into that state?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, I actually happened through a healer, whom I came in contact with is a very controversial healer. His name was

Rick Archer: right. He was the guy that like cut your mother open. Right, right. Right. Crazy. Sorry,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: not only my mother open, but he is a guy who cuts people open. Yeah, in general. You know, maybe one of the deals he does, that also is one of the famous, most famous now he’s in prison, he’s in big trouble. Now. Yeah, he is in big trouble. He had been big trouble before. And somehow he looks like he couldn’t learn. So now he repeated the trouble. But no doubt about that he has a great energy, and that he is a great healer. But on a personal level, it’s also obvious that he has to have a work, you know, that happens often with healers. And that is a strange thing, but it’s like this. And, well, in my case, the interest was touching me very strong, you know, and, and somehow I went out of myself, I can say, and, and it was such a pleasant state, that I stayed inside. And I could stay inside. But it was difficult to communicate very difficult. Also, I could hear people’s thoughts, and I could hear everything they say, and I could also understand, but the world I lived, was not the same world they lived. So things appeared very different to me, they appeared very different to me. And communication was not so easy. And for example, the relationship to my body was also difficult. I was in a state where I didn’t really know is it cold? Is it warm? Even to go to the bathroom was not always clear. So I was somehow to out, you know, like, like, in the body was left? No way it was. So as I sit hours and hours on the sofa at home, you know, and my wife was very worried. Of course, many people were worried. Also, they also could feel it is not a terrible thing happening is not crazy, you know, it’s not like it’s not for the mental house now. No one actually said, Look, we have to take into the mental house, you know, but I needed help. I needed help in the outside. And finally, one called my master and said, Look, Berlin is like this. And he said, I have to come. No. So I went there. With some others. They brought me there, basically. And this was a very strong period, and also a very comforting period, because I could understand that he sees me and understands me completely, that he’s in the same world I am. And it was. Yeah. And it was one of the most beautiful periods I had with him. So the first thing he said, I’m not gonna keep you in the dark in the center. So he put me in the house on the on the the edge of the village. Also, for one reason is that I didn’t sleep in this period. And I had no not at all for three years. Not for three years, but for half a year minimum. I didn’t sleep.

Rick Archer: Let me let me interject a little question. So when you say you didn’t sleep does was your body lying? down and apparently asleep but you were awake inside? Or did you not even lie down to rest?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: I had I had some resting time usually like one to two hours, but not more than that

Rick Archer: and even then your you stayed awake or aware? Yes. Okay,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: because I was all the time looking into the light. And if you look into the light, you just cannot sleep at least me.

Rick Archer: Now, you know, there is a thing where they say that, you know, you go through the normal cycle of waking, dreaming and sleeping but the inner awareness or the Turia you know, the fourth state remains awake. So there’s what they call witnessing sleep. Is that what was happening? Or Did you’ve actually not enter into the sleep state in any way?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, I didn’t enter into a sleep state. Interesting. Wow.

Rick Archer: And so let’s just recap this a little bit. So you you met with this very unusual healer guy who actually cut people open with a knife. And there’s a whole story around that I don’t know if we want to take the time to go into it. But and he and he cut you open and actually reached his hand inside your body and, and apparently, held your heart in his hand was very hard to believe. But I’ve seen things like that within the Philippines and stuff. And, and then that just completely blew you into a different state of

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: watch. He know, he took my heart and he he teared something out from my heart. You know, that was the main shocker, actually, you know, because of what the heck he can peel off of my heart. You

Rick Archer: know, did he did you see him come out of your body with some physical piece of material? Or was it more no subtle? No,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: he it was more sudden right now and he’s throw it away. Right? But he showed it to me in the in the in the bucket.

Rick Archer: Did you end up with a scar or something where he cut? Yes, you have a sky and you have one even now a scar there? No,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: no went away. Okay. It disappears. Usually after three days. Yeah.

Rick Archer: I mean, we’re since we’re talking about this. We might people are probably curious. What in the heck are we talking about? We might as well talk about it a little bit more and healty your mother had uterine cancer, and he cut her abdomen open and put your prayer beads or something inside her uterus. Okay, this sounds outrageous. But I believe you you know what that is? I don’t think he would make this like

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: this, you know, and he I had a very long a long prayer beads very long, you know, like 1000 beats now. Yeah. And he took all these beats into the warmth of my mother, you know? And then he threw it to me, and he said, smell. And it was smelling like Rose, you know? And it kept on there for weeks and weeks.

Rick Archer: And she was cured of cancer. Yes. She was cute. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. And, yeah, I mean, just for people listening to this, who think we’ve kind of gone off the deep end, all of a sudden, there are actually

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: two to make it to correct things. She didn’t have cancer. And she had a hole in the heart and the heart. Why so ever he opened the belly. Yeah, but he closed that hole in the heart.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes people have that. And they have to have surgery to repair it. Right. You know, there’s a hole between the ventricles or something in the heart. Ah, it’s it’s wild there. But there are these things. I mean, I when I was in the Philippines for nine months, and there are all these healers in the Philippines who do something similar. And there were a bunch of doctors with me, and I went once or twice just to watch it. But the the doctors went for several months and stood around the table every day, then watch these people closely. And were convinced that they were actually somehow reaching into people’s bodies important things,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: is you have to expense it yourself. You know, I mean, if someone comes inside with the arm inside your body, you understand like that. It’s not something you have to think of, you know, it’s very clear

Rick Archer: this. Is this person still alive?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah. I think he’s still alive. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And do you regard him or as a highly evolved person? Or is this just some kind of weird, psychic ability or something?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, no, no, he’s definitely a very developed soul. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: And so but in any case, it really threw you for a loop. It really shifted you in a big way. I mean, do you see that as one of the most dramatic awakenings of your life right there where that happened?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: It was, it was a very strong one. Yeah, the first one,

Rick Archer: and it took you three years to set you into a state. So what are some of the ways in which How did your master bring you down or get you integrated?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, by the help of my master, of course,

Rick Archer: yeah. I mean, did he tell you to do physical labor or eat heavy food or how did he get

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: around? Oh, well, first of all, he told me that I have to come back and that he will, that he will do it with me. And then He said that, when I come back at you don’t come back to your old self. He said that you fill it now with reality, you fill the path with reality. That’s what he said. And this we try must have taken a while. Yeah, it takes a time, you know, and some, as you know, the point is you never come back here. So there is something which is always staying where it stays, you know?

Rick Archer: Yeah. But you get used to functioning again in the real world. Yeah, probably you can funcionar and things like that

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: function more or less.

Rick Archer: Functioning. Okay, right now.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And you should ask my wife about that, you know, it’s good for it.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, they’re happy. There is a thing here, I mean, which you see sometimes where people who have attained a high spiritual state have a hard time functioning in the world and other people Let Go not into my mind. For instance, you know, people had to had to feeder, or else Neem Karoli Baba, he would, you know, wander off into the forest that people didn’t keep an eye on and that there’s not quite so grounded in this world.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yes.

Rick Archer: But, I mean, as you say, the whole purpose of spirituality is not to become comatose, or not to get into some dysfunctional state, but hopefully to integrate it so that we can function in the world and yet be, you know, in a high state.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: You have to be useful for people.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I presume your master was that way. Right. And, and that’s part of the reason, Sufism recommends having a family isn’t it to be more integrated and grounded in the real world?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: You’re in this world, but not from this world? You know, that’s what we say in Sufism.

Rick Archer: Sure, the Bible says that to in this world, but not have it be Jesus. Jesus said that I believe,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: right.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay. Um, so how about your teacher, we’re going to have you tell us a bit more about him. It appears that he was a remarkable soul. And are there any interesting things that you would like to say about him that people would enjoy hearing?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, he was a love Master, you know, and we say there is inofficial inofficial. championship of lovers in the year, every year. And the Olympics lovers. Yeah. And he definitely was the champion. Over a decades, nice, yes.

Rick Archer: Because his heart was just so expensive, or great. Or, you know, we know that

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: I have no record to describe a master like this, you know, we call them kings, you know, there is in every time present five kings on Earth. And all me said, if you have met one of them, you wasted your lifetime. And I was more than blessed to meet him. And it was very much like, you know, you meet Jesus, imagine, you know, this fish of man. They just met Jesus, you know, they had families at home, they were not social secured. And Jesus said, Come, and they dropped everything in the came, you know, and the same thing happened for us, you know, those who were ready to follow. I mean, he took my took my life, 180 degrees, you know, in every direction I never wanted to marry, and I never want to be a father. And these two things were the first things he told me, you know. So that was already strong. How many do you have now? Seven? Wow. Seven. That’s amazing. Six, six daughters. One son.

Rick Archer: Amazing. What is their age range?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: My eldest now she’s 34. And my youngest, she is 20, I think, or 19, 20. I think he’s going to be 20. No,

Rick Archer: that’s great. Congratulations.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Thank you.

Rick Archer: Have you supported your family entirely by through your teaching activities? Or did you actually have some other sort of profession?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, no, basically like this

Rick Archer: teaching activities. Have your children taken to Sufism?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, some of them are closer, some, some are less, but all of them have been touched Of course, by it. Nice.

Rick Archer: They must have been a very nice family to grow up in. Yeah. Yeah. Very spiritual, spiritual family.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, you know, from a child perspective is not always so funny, you know, to have a father who’s never at home, in Algeria travel, so. So this was not easy for them. And now, they’re aligned, it makes it easier, but there were times it was not easy. There’s a

Rick Archer: verse in the Bhagavad Gita. About the blessing of being born in a pure and illustrious family. And then it says if you’re really special if you’re really fortunate you’ll be born in a family of Yogi’s, although it’s much more difficult to attain such a birth. But anyway, that’s kind of what what your children have done. I think I’ve been born and blessed

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: They have to see this interview you know, they will like it.

Rick Archer: My friend in England who named Fred who sent some questions in asked me to ask you about kid air K h ID, or who said was sort of like Maha Avatar, Baba Ji kind of figure, an advanced the eternally youthful spiritual being who appears to certain individuals. So I guess that’s something in the Sufi or Islamic tradition, this person.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, there is. In our tradition days, some people on earth they are immortal, you know, and Fidel, Islam belongs to them. And either means the green, green, one

Rick Archer: green, like, like, green,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: okay, yeah, like, like leaf, like a meme, or whatever. And, because when He appears, it turns everything into with green color, you know, everything appears green. That’s how you realize that he’s coming.

Rick Archer: And like Baba Ji, he’s one of these beings that are said to Is he is he said, to sort of look over humanity and guide its destiny and, you know, kind of, like an Ascended Master sort of thing.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, well, you know, this is again, difficult to describe, you know, there is the results. And so it’s no, and some are very, very, very high. So it’s, you know, he would rather call them Gods than just human beings, you know, and, and they exist, and they are with us, they look after you after me, after all of everyone really. And they are great souls with different names and different traditions. And they keep their work as long as it is commanded on them now,

Rick Archer: have you ever encountered one?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: I have encountered two times the presence of a salon. Yeah.

Rick Archer: But was it a visual experience? Or more just a feeling of presence?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: No, it was a visual experience on

Rick Archer: Do you mind talking about it?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, you know, in general, I don’t like too much talking about myself. And especially about what I have seen or what I have experienced, you know,

Rick Archer: don’t think about you though, let’s pretend it’s not about you. It’s about this being that you know,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Loki i

Rick Archer: That you saw.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: So as I told you, before, he when he comes you will experience green everywhere everything is is tainted with that color, you know. And so it is a very joyful, very, very joyful thing to be with him because he’s of course in a very high state. And always when you meet a person who is up, you know, who is really up, they’re very generous and they take you to their state. No. And they take things away from your sadnesses for example, anger, yeah, can happen. It depends how much you can be how much can be taken away because not everything can be taken because you need those things to work. You know you need to those things to develop yourself now. So there is not a process possible where someone brings you from very unconscious being there is not this possibility that you come from unconsciousness, total unconsciousness to the highest consciousness, you know that in a jump? That’s not possible. Yeah.

Rick Archer: So and also some God isn’t going to come along and do all the work for you. You have to sort of do your own works.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And that’s part of the game. No, you must do your game.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I wonder if there’s more I should ask you about that you seemed like it’s a private experience and you don’t want to talk about it too much. And I understand that you know, because some things are just very tender and intimate and it feels gross to bring them out in words. Am I right?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: The thing is, look what what I experience is not going to be necessarily your experience point you know. So you do not benefit really from experiences of others. Because you see the the truth is not valid. The veil is not on the truth. The veil is on you You know, says why you can hear the truth of 1000 musters, and it doesn’t unveil you, you know, because you have to find your own truth. And to find your own truth, you have to drop all the knowledge which you have read, which it has been given to you from outside. And it must become your knowledge. No, only when you receive your knowledge directly, when it comes to you from up from your soul to yourself, whatever, only then that knowledge will empower you, and will give you really a real trust in it. No,

Rick Archer: yeah, no, that’s well put, it has to be a living experience, it has to be your experience. I think the person the reason we like these stories of saints and sages and, you know, enlightened beings is that it inspires us, you know, it gives gives people a vision of possibilities, oh, one could actually write a state or or such beings actually exist, you know, and if it

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: didn’t come to be for the Emperor happy, yeah, that’s the

Rick Archer: thing. It gives one sort of a goal to shoot for maybe. And at the same time, it also gives you a feeling that there’s the world is full of mystery and beauty and blessings that we don’t see on the evening news.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Right?

Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay. So for people who wanted to get involved with Sufism, either as you teach it or in any form, you know, firstly, does that mean that they are becoming a muslim? I understand that there are many Western Sufi groups that have nothing to do with Islam, and say that any connection to Islam is irrelevant to Sufism. And secondly, you know, what is that? What impact is that going to have on their own own cultural heritage? Could you be a Christian, for instance, and at the same time be a Sufi

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: is the you said, there is no force in the path. So you cannot force somebody into a religion, you know, that’s not a very wise thing to do. And everything comes by itself. Usually, when you love someone, you will follow him, no matter what he is what he does, like he

Rick Archer: did, but he just didn’t take it to be a selfie. And then here you

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: are. Exactly. And, but for example, our to this, there is also a Hindu line, you know, like, for example, Irene in 3d You have about her. She followed a Naqshbandi teacher, which is the same tradition. But there was a grandmaster in our chain. And he’s he, one day said that we open it also for the nose, you know? So that’s the same training, it’s the same knowledge. It’s the same everything, but he told them to keep their Hindu beliefs or Hindu rituals, whatever, to social life as Hindus, but practicing the Sufi methods, you know? And, yeah,

Rick Archer: so let’s say someone’s listening to this, and they live in New Jersey, or Iowa or anyplace. And

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: like Iowa, Iowa, that’s where it sounds nice. Yeah,

Rick Archer: it’s pretty nice to see really hot here right now. But let’s say they they inspired to become a Sufi, what practical steps they do they take to get involved. There’s, I understand that something called dhikr di DHI, KR, and there’s prayer and fasting and spiritual retreats and all these different things. But you know, someone lives out here, how do they? How do they get involved? Can they do it online? Or do they have to find a group someplace, I’m sure there’s something in Chicago, or whatever.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: It is better to be with a group, you know, it makes it easier. The most important is to find the shake, you know, that is the main thing, you know. But in the waste system, that’s the thing I teach, it is free of all of those, you know, you don’t have to be in a group, you don’t have to follow a master. You do the work, you know, which is described as self observation about certain topics. You do a certain singing practice, you do a certain meditation practice. And that would be the beginning. You know,

Rick Archer: so theoretically, you could learn that stuff online and then get it get a few of your friends and then you have a little group. Yeah. Yeah, for example. Okay. And is there some kind of network of shakes so that if you want to find one, you could, you know, look it up or get in touch with you and you would say, Oh, yes, there’s one in Kansas City or There’s one here there.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: There’s a divine network. And it functions through your heart. You just make a prayer. Yeah. That you say, God, I really need a guide. Yeah. And I would like to be guided in that path. Please open something to me.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s that saying when the student is ready, the master appears I’m sure you’ve heard this. And I think it is

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um,

Rick Archer: oh, a question came in. Let’s see, this is from cave KKF in Delhi, India. He asks, Can you please talk about your experience of listening to or being with J. Krishnamurti?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, I met him when he was very old and very sick already in Switzerland. And he was, I think, or something. Yes, he had Parkinson. And that was the most impressive thing because he came up on stage. And he tried to correct his microphone, the position of his microphone. And he was trembling really, really trembling. And and the people wanted to come to help him. And then he made the move with the hands to say no, don’t don’t come, he closed his eyes. And for some seconds, he was able to bring the the how you call it a tremor tremor down the tremors down, and he could manage to fix the precision of his microphone and, you know, Parkinson, it is absolutely impossible to control the tremor, you know, consciously. But he did it. And it was really, really powerful to see that. And we were like, I think it was 3000 people in attending wasn’t attending Switzerland, in Salem. And I was in a very ideal position I can say to look at him, and so not too far, not too close. So it was really, really nice. And the silence he produced now was really impressive. I mean, the awareness, the attention, you know, he created this, this this focus, this concentration, you know, this was really, really impressive. And he was a very sympathetic person. Very lovely person. Really? Yeah, great, man. No doubt. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Nice to have been able to meet him. Yeah. Um, I read an article that someone sent me about Sufism. And it said that there are seven main points to consider. And I don’t know if you would, if all branches of Sufism would recognize these points, but each of them is interesting. And I thought you might like to comment on them. The first is, I’ll just read them one by one you can comment. The first is surrender to love.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Okay. I wouldn’t agree with that. Simply because the, if I say to you love now for the next 24 hours, everyone. And you do that? Not necessarily you cannot. Okay, but if I tell it to you, do be true with everyone for the next 24 hours, you can do that. So the first thing is the truth. And then you become capable for love, that the truth must come first. And truth has a system. And that’s quite love. That’s nice.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, there’s stories in the Vedic tradition about people who spoke the truth so much so so. So sure. They that what it got to the point where anything they said had to come true, because it was like reality, conformed to their words, rather than the other way around, because they were so consistent in telling the truth.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Right, and just the one attribute everyone is born with, you know, you can always speak the truth. It doesn’t matter if you’re angry, envy, proud, depressed, or whatever. But the truth is always available to you at any moment of your life.

Rick Archer: And how about qualifying that little bit to say that you should speak the sweet truth. I mean, there was a story about Winston Churchill where he was at a party and, and he said to you came up to some woman and said, Ma’am, you’re the I can’t do the English accent, but you’re the ugliest woman I’ve ever seen. And, and she said, Mr. Churchill, you’re drunk. And he said, Yes, I am. But in the morning, I’ll be sober yet you’ll still be the ugliest woman I’ve ever seen.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, those are truths of the ego. And if you’re very indentified, with the ego structure, then you think this is the truth. And in that truth, you usually make others responsible, known for your condition. And then there is a truth of the heart. And that is a truth, which doesn’t complain about others or accuse others know,

Rick Archer: or speaking CCUA to them, even if there might be something exactly.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And tries to respect others and to be friendly. Churchill could maybe say things we cannot. So some people can, and some people cannot. They

Rick Archer: also enjoyed cigars, which I don’t think you and I do. The second point on that list is chanting the divine name. And I know you’re a musician, you actually have a musical group that you play with. And so I presume that chanting and singing is an important part of, of your path.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Um, yeah. As a musician, I’m doing a lot of things you know, but in the waist system, the singing is mainly what we what we try to. Well, how I introduce it is through dhrupad I don’t know if you have heard about true, Patsy.

Rick Archer: It’s its style. Yes. It’s the oldest

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: oldest school of singing in the world, let’s say no. And

Rick Archer: they have some recordings in my music collection. Yeah.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And I am honored to be a student of a very famous and very known teacher, his name is starchy with seafood indica. And, and the true part is a very universal approach to explore your voice. No. Because usually, when we hear our voice for the first time recorded, no, we think this is absolutely horrible. No, we say this good. This cannot be true. This is not my voice. Cannot this cannot be how I sound to others. No. And to become to become friendly with your own voice is a very important point. No. So singing this kind of singing is a kind of meditation also. And it’s very liberating. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s

Rick Archer: a really universal practice. I mean, you know, the writing the Indians have their bhajans and the, the Christians have their hymns and you know, there’s something about it, which I think stirs up the heart stirs devotion.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And of course, Sufism also has their own their own styles, you know, like qawwali music, for example. You know, I don’t know if you know Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so that’s, that’s a Sufi music. You know, it’s a very classic so if you music in the older Pakistan, India, all those areas, that is the main domains of music seems like a lot

Rick Archer: of the great sitar players were Muslim like Ali Akbar Khan. And

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: well actually most of the great classical players musicians are Muslims. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there’s

Rick Archer: that’s terrible players the best in the world. What’s his name? Soccer wasn’t exactly right. It’s fantastic.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And most of them also in in Sufism. Interesting lesson, I think it’s

Rick Archer: nice to know. A third point on this list was working with your dreams. And it says that the ancient Sufis turned to their dreams for guidance, clarity and wisdom, it was an important tool to help them on their spiritual path. The Sufi tradition was a well developed philosophical psychology, which includes dream interpretation that concur with that.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yes, I’m on a certain point, it can become important, but not in the beginning certain stage

Rick Archer: later on. Yeah. And so, when it does become important, why is it important and how do you how do you work with it?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, because it is called symbolic thinking, you know, in the dreams, you have kind of symbolic thinking now and to translate that into your into your daily life that can help so siddhi Jung, for example, was working with those things of in Sufism, we, we have different categories of dreams, we distinguish different categories. So the higher categories they are important to tell to the Shaykh so that he can say something to you about it.

Rick Archer: I’ve had some dreams in my life, which didn’t seem like dreams because they were so profound, it was more like, you know, certain more like the innocence of sleep enabled me to enter into experiences which I wouldn’t have been able to do in the way that you relate to that in terms of you know,

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: how Look, everyone Yeah, everyone has experienced in his life, a set of dreams, which he can remember them very, very clearly. Even in high age doesn’t matter. And those dreams they have been messages of course to you. They they are. They are invitations, you know, divine invitations, because they must. God has His ways, how to call you or how to invite you. And sometimes it happens through dreams. Then there is teachings so dreams, you know,

Rick Archer: you’re more open in a way. Right? Yeah, right. Interesting. Okay. And the fourth point on this list is entering into devotion and service, and to remember God and to serve others. The true practice, practice of devotion is service. In India, they call it savor, if you wish to serve the beloved, you must serve others in selfless service, we begin to see ourselves clearly. The rough ego starts to be smooth, and we learn humility, tenderness and love.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Where servanthood, of course, is a big part. No, I mean, the highest spiritual state is a servant. What else it should be, you know,

Rick Archer: this is that we get involved in service projects, like feeding the poor things like that.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yes. Also, I mean, it is it is usually the thing that when you come to a sushi place, the first thing is that they give you food and and they also give you a place to sleep usually. I mean, that’s, that’s for certain.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s that saying, in India, the guest is God, you know, you’re just Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And I would say that if you have ever been traveling in the Middle East or in origin countries, the hospitalities outstanding, you know, it’s true. Like the Ottoman Empire, for example, if you had built a house, the first house you would build for your guests, and then you would build a house for yourself. Interesting.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I also experienced that I was a traveling meditation teacher for several years. And I always loved the Jewish mothers, they were just so they took they were like, Oh, you’re like, like I was their son. And they kept giving me food, making sure I was comfortable. There’s something in that tradition that was very, very nourishing. The fifth point on this list was Rumi, the importance of Rumi and I think Rumi is the most popular poet in America, I’ve heard that are in the West. And which is interesting, because he lived hundreds of years ago. So do is for those who aren’t familiar with Rumi is do you want to say a few words about his importance and who he was.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Rumi was shake. No, he was a master Sufi master. And he also was a scholar, that many people don’t know that. He was a scholar in Islamic law. And he that was his main function in the beginning. But then when he met his master, his second master something in Tabriz, then his Korea went very down as a scholar.

Rick Archer: But it has he was so hard, harder he entered in less intellectual Is that why?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Well, some stables was a very radical Master. No, he was a calendar, probably, which means he’s a wandering dervish. Like, you can compare it to a saddle in the Indian world. And he was a guy who was not taking much consideration about the sensitivity of his audience. No. So he would go very strong and very straight and

Rick Archer: say controversial things very strong.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: So they asked me to depart from him and not to associate with him, but only his answer was that he secluded himself three months in one room, which sums and they stayed three months in one room together. Yeah. So he gave up every official profession, and he completely dropped his normal life which he had before being we tissue

Rick Archer: Well, there’s a saying that that which is closest to truth last longest and Rumi who certainly lasted and I’ve never been much of appreciator of poetry. But I you know, having listened to several hours of Rumi over the past week, while I was cutting the grass and doing things I was listening, I headphones. I thought wow, I could really relate to it. It really moved me

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: beautiful poetry or me sis, they say if if the Quran was not having been revealed, they would have taken the Masnavi as guidance. The writings of Rumi. Yeah.

Rick Archer: I have a couple more points here to read on that seven point list but our friend from New Delhi asks another question here. We might as well interjected he says, If this is not too intrusive. Would you like to talk about the reason why Sufi teachers, including yourself often dress and appear in a certain way, such as having a beard a cap, a fez that’s gone, and so on? Does this have a spiritual significance? Or is it more of just part of the culture of the Islamic civilization?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: This is an expression of love, you know, personal realization, you just want to look like, you want to look like the beloved one. And that’s why you see all the traditions. They’re closed very, very similar. Now. Yeah. And, and because the beloved one is one. So when you visit view would visit the king? Would you come in the dress you have? Now, for example, nicely, you know, exactly. So we are living in the presence of the king. So therefore, we dress like we are in the presence of the gig.

Rick Archer: Yeah, so it’s a sign of respect, you could say, yes, yeah. And it’s certainly not unique to Sufism. I mean, in every tradition, there’s a certain you can recognize a rabbi or Zen mosque or anything.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: You can also recognize a baker and the policeman, you know, endpoint is your dress, which defines you in a certain point, and gives an expression to what you want to express. So the Sufis, they, they want to express their love and their respect, the the consciousness that a king exists.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I once heard Maharishi Mahesh Yogi say that he was talking about monks. And he was saying that they’re in there in a way their attire protects them. Because they, it reminds them that they’re a monk. And it reminds other people that they’re a monk. And so it sort of helps them to behave as a monk should behave. Whereas if they just went around and you know, regular clothing, they, they might sort of be less aware of that role they’re playing.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: And with a beard, it’s very easy. Also, you know, a nine has his hair. No. And there has to be like that.

Rick Archer: In my case, I’m lazy. I don’t feel like shaving it. Okay. Here’s a question from Laura, in Monmouth, Monmouth, Oregon. Laura asks, Can you speak on fear or anxiety as it relates to awakening? For those that have experienced awakenings over the years, but are now in long periods of fear and anxiety? Can you please offer advice on how best to work with this arising? Blessings? Thank

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: you. Okay, this is a good question. Because it’s a practical question, you know, and so we have to understand that fear is a protector. Yeah. So the ego protector. And usually, it’s not easy to start with fear, you know. So, the first thing is, that whenever you have something which you don’t like, as a feeling as an emotion, like fear, usually we don’t like, the first thing is that you learn to honor it, that you allow it to be your your guest. And that it can be there rather than rather than fighting it. Yes, rather than fighting. So that’s the first thing. So when the fear comes, whatever it is, you don’t try to avoid it as much as you can, okay? If you, if you run into a panic attack, let’s say, while you are watching your fear, then you stop it, you know, the thing is, first, that you observe the fear, now, just observe it. And you allow it to be there, you know, as much as possible. And you just look into it. And when you look at something, clearly, it shrinks. It will, somehow is like you look into fork, let’s say fear is a kind of fork. And if you keep on looking to the fork, the moment comes that the sun goes stronger and stronger, and the fork will disappear. And you see the light. And this is what happens when you come out of fear. When you go through fear. When you pass through fear, you will see light. And when you have done that process one time, and another time the fear comes, it’s much easier to do the same thing. So it needs the courage to face it. To allow it to be there and to face it and to honor it. Yeah.

Rick Archer: One thing Laura said that she had some kind of awakening and then the fear seemed to bubble up. And in my experience talking to so many people, I’ve often seen that pattern. It’s as if, you know, the ego begins to be threatened because an awakening has happened and ego maybe, maybe senses its its impending demise. And there’s also the saying in the Upanishad, which is certainly all fear is born of duality. And just like breaking the sound barrier, you kind of go through this turbulence before you break through the sound barrier. I think that there’s a kind of a, when you are about to break through duality back into unity, there’s a barrier of fear that has to be kind of crossed. And a lot of people encounter that.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, of course, fear is the last barrier, you know, what can happen to you if you’re not in fear anymore? Yeah. Oh, so the ego will do everything to hold you in tears. And that’s why you have to face it. In all these fairy tales, where the young man faces the dragon? No. And you think oh my God, how can he face a dragon? You know? But he can. He can and it is described, and the young child who listens to those fairy tales, gets this information know that when you are standing, you face it, then you can even win over a dragon know, or even over the worst fear there is? Yeah. So fear is not really existing, you know, fear is just something which is not. And that’s why when you look at it will go. Then the mind wants to create it again. Yeah. Because the mind is the servant to the to the ego. Right. And, and you have to do it many times, you know, to become stable.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Let’s solve it in one, one session. But

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: once you do that, once it’s clear, there is nothing to fear. Yeah, the only thing you have to fear is your own ego. And that is also not really to fear. Yeah. So anything else? What is there to fear death? This is not there to fear because this does not exist. Yeah. So pain, yeah, pain can be a fear. And that’s why I always say the most important is the research on painkillers on good painkillers, you know, who do not them, our consciousness now who don’t make a sleepy or dizzy and pain shouldn’t be there, you know, but anything else? There’s nothing to fear. You know, why should we fear?

Rick Archer: President Roosevelt said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Yeah, yeah. That when you mentioned painkillers just now are you talking about pharmaceuticals? Are you talking about spiritual painkillers in a way that

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Oh, no. In the physical level, though, when you have pain? Yeah, that can be very strong. Sometimes.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, that’s a whole topic in itself, because in the United States, we have this huge epidemic of addiction to opioids. That is that is that is terrible. Yeah, people describe them much too generously and given wrong information about how addictive they are and stuff like that, right.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: That, of course, is terrible. But that’s why I’m saying it has to be in good hands. needs to be in responsible hence. No, I mean, those doctors, they should be really punished. You know,

Rick Archer: it’s happening. Actually, the pharmaceutical companies are being sued for billions of dollars, for they should be misleading information.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: Okay, so the last two of these seven points actually are quite interesting. And we’ve almost touched upon the next one which is dying before you die. And the the explanation of it is that to a Sufi, each moment could be the last. So it’s important to be present in all of life, and to live as if you if you could be as if you could die in this moment, with your heart pure, your actions good, and your relationships at peace.

will die before you die is the saying of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. And of course it has many levels. Now that’s a very high topic. The one you just quoted, let’s say is the lowest level on that description now, but cause the first thing which has to die, is your own self is the is the false self. The idea that I’m the center of creation, and that everything The existence owes me that everyone owes me recognition, respect, love, and so on that all this demands now that we have permanently, they have to die. And that is a process. And when, when you do that process that feels like you die, because you feel that you are the center. Yeah, you feel that you have the highest martyrs mind in the whole universe, you it’s not a thinking, it’s not a thought it’s an existential security that it is like this. And you feel that, when you step out of the house that the world turns around you, and everything is you, you are in the center, right? So this center has to go. And that feels like death. And it’s not easy. There’s not from today to tomorrow, that needs practicing. And that needs also guidance. And at the end of the day of this process, we put people into seclusion. That is like where you are going into your grave. And that is like symbolically to go in your grave. And you stay there for a minimum period of 40 days. And, and that’s extendible depends on the shapes expertize in on his judgment, and it can go up to years. It had too many she stayed in wind up two years.

Rick Archer: These days, many people go through that sort of thing.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: What I don’t know, I don’t know. I mean,

Rick Archer: for instance, have you put some of your students in seclusion for a month or so,

we are starting now. We are starting now with certain people to do that. And we are starting now.

Rick Archer: To me that phrase die before you die. I mean, it’s it brings to mind the quality of surrender because when you die, you don’t have a choice in the matter, you know, you pretty much have to surrender to the process you can fight, you’re still going to die. So if we sort of have an attitude of, of surrender, perhaps then

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: yeah, of course surrendering is, is an easy word to say. And not so easy to do, right? Because what we have to let go first is the mind, you see. And it is the only security we have. It’s the only absolutely only pillar, we really believe in it. And to let go that is not so easy. That means that you have experienced before some other states, where you can relate to you know, otherwise you go into mental health, you know, we throw someone into that. That is that is the past to the mental health. No. So it needs a preparation, it needs practicing. And, yeah, it’s hard. It’s

Rick Archer: the final of the seven points is an interesting one. It’s to honor the divine feminine. And apparently Sufism has always done this. And it’s an esoteric aspect of a religion that outwardly seems patriarchal. So what would you have to say about that point?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: I really wonder where you got to some points from you know, I

Rick Archer: can send you the article, it was this article about Sufism, that this fellow in England said to me, he wanted me to read it before the article. So I’m just educating myself here about Sufism. I

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: mean, the prophets Hansen was a revolutionary was maybe the first feminist in the world, you know, in history, yeah. Well, he gave, he made men equal to women, you know, as a right, as a right to be as a voice. And he gave schooling, he said, the women have the same right to study and they can become scholars, they have the right to make their business, their their professions if they want, and so on and so on. You know, so the first universities who allowed women to study in Europe, were Turkish universities, you know, for example, oriental universities, they were the first and then years and years later in Europe, it was allowed that a woman could study medicine. But all that has happened long time before in the Islamic culture, that women had always agreed input and the great importance, the greatest. So it is written in the Book of Love The Holy Quran, that the Paradise is under the feet of the mother. No. So that means many things or the Prophet was asked who has the more write on your presence from anyone? And he said the mother. And then they said and then said the mother, and then the mother again, the father to three times the mother, you know, the mother is everything you know. And the love to women, the celebration, to femininity to the grace of women to respect women is a pillar. Absolutely pillar.

Rick Archer: How did it get so turned around so that these days, you know, they don’t let the young women’s study in Afghanistan and stuff like that? I mean, it seems like the whole thing got distorted.

Well, how it came that the Christian culture developed atomic bombs. It’s really one of those, you know, there’s many how came in this world? Many? How can questions that we do not look to that, you know, we look to ourselves, so I can ask myself, How did I end up where I am now? You know,

Rick Archer: with six visitors?

For example? Yeah. So we stay with ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

Rick Archer: mean, every tradition gets distorted in parts of it, but it always happens. There, I mean, so many horrible things have been done. The name is a beautiful thing. traditions that started out started out so beautiful.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Right. Right.

Rick Archer: Um, a question came in from Omar in the United Arab Emirates. Omar asks, what is one teaching? What is one teaching that you think is essential to awakening? A teaching that one can stay with all day? Like Rama taught self inquiry? What equivalent would be would the Sufis teach? Thank you.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Very good question. Thank you, Omar. This is a good question. thankfulness. Yeah. Yeah, that’s the first thing you have to practice to say. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you day and night. And even you don’t feel it all. You know, it’s good to say it, and he will have a very, very strong impact on you. Many times people asked me, What is the most powerful mantra you could give me? No. And usually I say, say thank you. That is the first thing, if you can say thank you, God, that’s fine. But if God is conflictive, for you, then no need to say that, to just say thank you for everything, you know, thank you in the morning to your mirror, thank you, to your people who are around you, thank you, that you can see that you can hear that you can smell if you don’t know what to say thank you put three things on a white paper, that you are certain to say thank you then at another three in the next day and another three in the next day, and so on and so on in read it every day out. That is a very, very important, you know, because the ego lives in this consciousness, it lacks something. And that’s why it complains permanently. It wakes up with a no. It says no, it’s not enough. It’s not yet enough. And the heart says yes, it is his own there. It is enough. So we have to give power to the heart. Thank you, opens the power of the heart. Very, very powerful. So that should be his practicing.

Rick Archer: Okay, good. So to culture, a feeling of gratitude,

right? Day and night, for the past, for your presence, for your future, for your mother, for your Father, for your president, or your country. For the air you breeze, or the coffee you drink for everything. You say thank you,

Rick Archer: and how about for your car accident or your your cancer or your you know, child dies? Or how do you maintain that? If something difficult happens

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: when we have to distinguish things, that doesn’t mean that you can be happy with everything. You know, like when your child dies. That’s not something you can be happy for it, you know? And so you don’t say thank you that my child dies, you know, that you can come in peace with it. No. And on a certain point, you understand that when someone you love dies, there’s always a very big lesson for us. Yeah, first one is that nothing is permanent here. Yeah. So we come we go. And our people we love they come and go as well. Therefore, at the end also thank you for that. But of course, when someone comes and says my my just my daughter just died Two days ago, you know, I was not gonna say anything, okay, you’re not gonna say thank you, you know, there’s not appropriate, you know, but you don’t have to go to the most tragic things in your life, you know? And start to want to embrace those you know, go with things you can be easy with, you know, and step by step. You understand that everything is coming to you for a good reason.

Rick Archer: Yeah. There’s a story of a Chinese farmer. I just happened to reread this yesterday, where you know that story. There’s a Sufi story, is it a Sufi, sir? You want to tell it rather than why don’t you tell it rather than me? You tell it, you tell us. You fill in the gaps if I’m leaving some gaps, if you should make a mistake, okay. So the farmer had this beautiful horse. And one day the horse escaped and the neighbors came and said, Oh, it’s so terrible, the horse escaped. And he said, well, not necessarily, we’ll see. And so then after a few days, the horse comes back, and it brings another beautiful mare horse with with it. And the neighbors came said, Oh, what a blessing. You got this extra horse? He said, Well, we’ll see. And so then, after a while, the sun is riding the new horse trying to train it, and he falls off and breaks his leg. And the neighbors come say, Oh, this is terrible. Your son broke his leg and the pharmacist will see. And so then the war breaks out. And all the young men are recruited to join the army. And, but the the son isn’t recruited because he limped because he broke his leg. And so yeah, and many of the people who got recruited ended up dying. So we just never know what’s gonna happen. Or you know, what this implications are of anything that happens. To everything God does is for the best, there’s a whole nother story about that, where this minister was always saying everything God does is for the best, and he ends up, you know, trying to cut it short. But he ends up getting thrown in jail. And it seems like a terrible thing. But it turns out, if he hadn’t been in jail, he would have gone on this hunting expedition with a king and he would have been taken as a human sacrifice, but it wasn’t because it was in jail. So

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: it’s great stories.

Rick Archer: Okay, so thank you. So you have a website, no doubt, and I’ll be linking to that from batgap.com. And if people go there, what will they find that they can

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: they find some information there and they find the calendar, what I’m doing. define some nice stories, for example, that story, maybe also thing is there. And, yeah, they find just a way to contact let’s say, No.

Rick Archer: And you have some, like, webinars or something online, so they can work with you even from different location.

Not yet. Not yet. Okay, planning to do that? Well, yeah, you know, I’m pretty old school here. Now, like also that people make effort, you know, if something is precious, you know, you go, where’s the source? No,

Rick Archer: sir. Do you travel around or when they have to come to Germany?

I travel, usually two times around the world, in a year. So they have quite a chance to see me close to them.

Rick Archer: Okay, good. So here’s your old schedule beyond there. And yes, yes. Okay, great.

Maybe in the future, we may do a webinar, because now it’s 2019. And we have to do sacrifice romanticism also sometimes,

Rick Archer: yeah. Get your 20 year old daughter to help set it up.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Exactly. Yes. Always saying to me, you know?

Rick Archer: Yeah. Good. All right. Well, it’s really been a delight to meet you and, and spend a couple hours talking with you, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you very much. Also required Nice to meet you. And best wishes for all of you. And for your platform also, and for your wonderful work that you do. I’m very thankful to you, or thanks, and

Rick Archer: I’m thankful to be able to do it. It’s it’s a privilege to be able to do this. I really

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: appreciate it. Thank you very much. I hope we can meet in this lifetime also in person, that would be wonderful. Yes, it would be really wonderful. Been in mind. Maybe we’ll have it. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. And thank you to the team behind you also.

Rick Archer: Yes, it’s quite a team Irene and various other people that you can see on the website. Right, right. Volunteers page.

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Yeah. Thanks to all of them.

Rick Archer: Before you disconnect. I just want to make a couple of concluding remarks. So you know, I’ve been speaking with shake Burhanuddin Herman and I’ll be linking to his website as always. You have a few books that I could link to, but they all seem to be in Italian. Do you have anything English?

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Not yet? Not yet. Okay.

Rick Archer: Let me know in the future, if you do and I can help The page. And as you, as listeners will know, this is an ongoing series. If you’d like to be notified of future interviews, subscribe to this YouTube channel. And also, you could come to the website BatGap COMM And subscribe to an email notification thing. And while you’re there, check out what else is on the website, you’ll see a number of things that you may find of interest. So thank you for listening or watching and we’ll see you for the next one. And thanks one. Thanks once again. Shake Burhanuddin

Shaykh Burhanuddin Herrmann: Thank you, thank you very much. All the best to you. Thank you, thank you. Okay, see you