Sebastián Blaksley Transcript: Hearing the Voice of Christ and Choose Only Love

Sebastián Blaksley Interview

Summary

The conversation explores how Christian teachings and other spiritual traditions can point to the same underlying love and unity. It also considers how to bring spiritual insight into everyday life by embracing human uniqueness, looking for the sacred within and in others, and contemplating creation.

Questions This Interview Explores

• How can different spiritual traditions point to the same divine reality?
• What does it mean to become Christ or live from one's true identity?
• How can I experience God within myself and recognize the divine in others?
• How can contemplation deepen my appreciation of everyday life?

Key takeaways

• A Course in Miracles is described as healing the mind, while A Course of Love emphasizes moving into the heart and integrating both.
• Reading spiritual texts with the heart can make them feel like a direct expression of love.
• Christ is understood as love and one's true identity, which can be realized without losing one's human uniqueness.
• Different names and symbols can express the same divine reality across spiritual traditions.
• The divine can be sought within the heart and recognized in other people.
• Contemplating creation with love can reveal its wonder and deepen appreciation of ordinary life.

Transcript

Yes. Now, I wouldn’t say that we have to toss out the intellect, but it has to be more of an integrated thing. We have these various faculties. We have the intellect, we have the heart, we have the senses, and all these things are part of our makeup. But usually people end up being lopsided, with one or the other predominating to the exclusion of the others.

Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually awakening people. I’ve done, I think, about 525 of them now, or something like that. If this happens to be new to you, you haven’t seen any of these before, and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to batgap.com and look under the Past Interviews menu. This program is made possible by the support of appreciative listeners and viewers, so if you appreciate it and feel moved to support it, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site.

Our guest today is Sebastián Blaksley. Welcome, Sebastián.

Sebastián: Thank you.

Rick: Sebastián is down in Buenos Aires, Argentina. He’s a native of Buenos Aires. He was born into a large, traditional Catholic family. He attended a Jesuit school, of which the headmaster was Jorge Bergoglio, the current Pope Francis. I guess you’re kind of friends with him, aren’t you? You know him pretty well.

Sebastián: Yes. Well, he was part of the institution. He also has a very close relationship with my father, who was working with him and for the Jesuit organization for more than 40 years. So I know him quite well. He was the director, an authority for high school students. I love him.

Rick: He is a wonderful man. I just watched a movie the other night on Netflix called The Two Popes. I forgot the name of the actor who played him. Anthony Hopkins played the previous Pope, and it was really good.

Okay. So, although Sebastián wanted to be a monk as a young man, his family did not consider it acceptable. The inner voice that he always obeyed let him know that he must be in the world without being of the world. He studied Business Administration in Buenos Aires and completed his postgraduate studies in the United States and Argentina. He also pursued other studies in England, followed by several highly responsible positions at well-known international corporations, living and working in the U.S., England, China, and Panama. He then founded his own corporate consulting firm in Argentina and led it for over 10 years.

At the age of six, Sebastián was involved in a near-fatal accident, during which he heard a voice that later identified itself as Jesus. As I understand it, that accident involved you getting thrown under a train or some such thing.

Sebastián: Yes. Actually, it was a car accident in which my mother was driving. I was inside the car with my brothers and sisters at that time. The train crashed into the car, and one of my brothers, called Peter, died in that accident.

Rick: Sorry. It must have been traumatic. You were nearly six at the time.

Sebastián: Yes.

Rick: So you heard the voice of Jesus, and ever since then, you’ve been in communication with Him. It says—let’s just read this—“Since I can remember, I have felt the call of Jesus and am committed to living abandoned to their will. So, despite my various activities, I always put spiritual and religious reality at the center. I’m very devoted to my Catholic faith.” So what did the voice of Jesus say when this accident happened?

Sebastián: He said to me, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here with you.” That was the only thing He kept repeating over and over at that moment. He kept saying that for the next hour or two, when we were at the hospital. When He said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here with you,” I felt completely embraced by Him. No fear was possible at that time. That was exactly what He said to me.

Rick: You’re a little boy, of course, and you’re being raised in the Catholic tradition. So how did you know? Do you think it’s possible—I mean, how did you know it was Jesus? Do you think maybe it was just because you were steeped in Catholicism that you assumed it was Jesus? Or was there a sort of certainty that this is Jesus?

Sebastián: There was a knowing. I knew at that time who that person was, and that person knew perfectly well who I am. The encounter with Him was, for me, an encounter with someone whom you have known from always and forever, and you just reconnect with that person. The best way I can describe it is to compare it with a little boy who listens to the voice of his mother. He knows it’s his mother. He just knows that voice comes from his mother.

Rick: That’s good. Yes, that’s a good example. So, in 2013, you began to record messages from your mystical experiences. In 2016, you miraculously discovered A Course of Love and felt the call to devote yourself to bringing it to the entire Spanish-speaking world. Now, a friend of ours who helped to organize this said that there’s a kind of miraculous story about your discovery of A Course of Love. First of all, A Course of Love is from Mari Perron, right, whom I’ve interviewed? She channeled it, or coordinated it?

Sebastián: Yes, Mari Perron, whom you interviewed here. Yes, she was the first receiver of A Course of Love.

Rick: Okay. But how or why was it miraculous that you discovered it? It was out there publicly, right? So…

Sebastián: Well, not in this case, because that was during Easter time in 2016. I went to the chapel to have my morning prayers. It’s a chapel for adoration, which means that there is nothing in it except for yourself, the silence, God, and your experience. So there shouldn’t be anything except for yourself. But when I went into the chapel, which is very little and is close to my house in Buenos Aires, I saw a book. It was very strange for me to see that in that chapel. The book said A Course of Love.

When I opened the book, I immediately recognized the connection with Christ, with the voice of Jesus Christ in that book. I tried to find the book, but it wasn’t available. I went to different stores and tried to get it, but the book didn’t exist in Spanish. So I started searching, and I contacted Take Heart Publications, which is the publisher of A Course of Love by Mari Perron, to see where I could find it. I felt the need to share this with the Spanish-speaking world. They said it didn’t exist at that time. So we worked with another person named Coralie Pearson, who conducted the translation process, to bring the Spanish edition of A Course of Love to the Spanish-speaking world. We founded a foundation called Un Curso de Amor for publishing, editing, and distributing Un Curso de Amor, which didn’t exist at that time.

Rick: Okay. So it might be worth, at this point, explaining what A Course of Love is, and perhaps whether there’s any relationship between that and A Course in Miracles, and then how A Course of Love relates to traditional Christian teaching. Would that be interesting for people to hear?

Sebastián: Oh, I think definitely, yes.

Rick: Okay.

Sebastián: There are a lot of conversations about that. You asked me why this was a miracle. One of the reasons is that the experience I had with that book was exactly the same experience I’d had in the same chapel six years before, on the same day in Easter time, with another book, in the same situation. That book was called A Course in Miracles.

Rick: So someone left the book in there, and you just found it there.

Sebastián: Yes. When I found A Course in Miracles many years before, I was really touched by it. I was walking through my spiritual path with A Course in Miracles for almost six years until I found A Course of Love. I believe there is a real integration of both revelations. I believe A Course in Miracles came to help us heal our mind, and A Course of Love came to help us move from our mind to our heart and integrate both dimensions of what we are. So I think both are part of one thing, part of the oneness. That’s why I enjoyed watching your conference about paradoxes and contradictions.

Rick: You’re referring to a talk that I gave at the SAND conference, which I just put up on BatGap the other day. Just for context, I’m explaining that’s what you’re referring to. Go ahead.

Sebastián: Yes, thank you. I think it’s very valuable because it’s all about integration into the oneness. The voice of love can talk to us from different perspectives and different realities. The Holy Spirit has the capability of talking to us in the way we need and can listen to that voice. There was one time when Jesus Christ said to me that because He is the voice of love, He can talk to us in any language, in any context, and include all of our humanity. Integration, I think, is very important because it speaks about union. I think A Course in Miracles and A Course of Love are a unity.

Rick: Yes, it’s like A Course of Love was the sequel to A Course in Miracles, or something.

Sebastián: Yes. I’ve talked with many people about this, and I think if we are open to receiving what love wants to give us, then we can join it from different perspectives, angles, and parts of ourselves. Some people go from A Course of Love and then to A Course in Miracles. Some others go from A Course in Miracles and then to A Course of Love. Love is not a sequence. We can join it through different perspectives. I love both courses. They are very important in my spiritual path.

Rick: There’s a saying in India that when the mangoes are ripe, the branches bend down so that people can pick them easily. It sort of relates. I think the divine, or whatever you want to call it, will provide access to teachings that are appropriate to each person based on their orientation, which means there are going to be all sorts of different approaches and different teachings that different people will relate to more easily. That’s one of the things I said in that talk. I think I used the phrase, “God is not a one-trick pony,” which is a phrase from a Paul Simon song. But the creator of the vast, multifarious universe is certainly capable of providing a variety of approaches to cater to the individual characteristics of each spiritual aspirant.

Sebastián: Yes, definitely. In your question, you asked how I integrate that into my traditional Catholic beliefs or spirituality. Something that I learned from my experience, and from the revelations that I receive, is to receive with my heart. When you read with your heart, instead of reading with your intellectual mind, you can receive the books as a true letter of love. When you receive, let’s say, the Bible, A Course in Miracles , A Course of Love , or the books from St. Teresa of Ávila, just to mention one of the important books for me, and you read them with your heart, you know who is talking. And you enjoy the relationship with that voice. Your relationship with that voice transforms you into oneness with it. It’s like a kind of music for your heart when you read with your heart. I think A Course of Love helps us to read with our hearts. I love that.

Yes, I think it’s just God writing a letter for me.

Sebastián: Thank you for saying that. We have that in mind, and we have to honor it. We have to respect it. We also have a heart, so we can think and we can feel. We need to put both on the same level. That’s what I believe A Course of Love and A Course in Miracles help us to do.

Rick: Yes, I know what you mean. It’s sort of like you can read something and intellectualize like crazy, thinking about it and everything. But you can also just settle more into the heart and feel the waves of influence that wash over you as you read each passage.

Sebastián: Absolutely. I think you used the most important word for me, which is “feel.” Yes. The Virgin Mary said to me once that the heart is the center of spirituality. We really need to go to our heart instead of using our intellectual mind. In there, we are all one.

Rick: Yes. Now, I wouldn’t say that we have to toss out the intellect, but it has to be more of an integrated thing. We have these various faculties. We have the intellect, we have the heart, we have the senses, and all these things are part of our makeup. But usually people end up being lopsided, with one or the other predominating to the exclusion of the others.

Sebastián: Thank you for saying that. We have that in mind, and we have to honor it. We have to respect it. We also have a heart, so we can think and we can feel. We need to put both on the same level. That’s what I believe A Course of Love and A Course in Miracles help us to do.

Jesus, Mary, and the Incarnation of Christ

Rick: Let’s talk a little bit about who Jesus is, and Mother Mary, and all that. Everyone has heard of them, of course. You have a quote in your book that I copied: “Compared to the infinite vastness of the Self, spirit and the material universe are like a small mustard seed at the center of perfect Spirit.” But by ordinary standards, the material universe is huge. If you take one-third of the stars in the night sky that we can see, they’re within 250 light-years of us. And if you take a picture of a galaxy and put a little circle where 250 light-years is, it’s only a tiny little dot. Light takes 100,000 years to cross the galaxy. And then there are trillions of galaxies.

So there are undoubtedly countless trillions of inhabited planets, many of which—if they’re inhabited by fairly highly evolved beings—have a spiritual yearning, in my opinion, because spirituality is completely universal and timeless.

So, I don’t know. Sometimes—I know you wouldn’t be this way—but sometimes you hear more fundamentalist Christians saying things like, “Jesus is the only way,” and if you don’t go through Jesus, then you’re doomed. Then they try to support that argument by saying the universe is only 6,000 years old, and all kinds of crazy ideas. So it might seem like a kind of intellectual inquiry, but I’m sincerely curious whether you would consider Jesus to be universal in the sense that God Himself is universal—in other words, having jurisdiction over the entire universe—or whether Jesus has more authority, as it were, for our planet, and there would be other beings like Jesus on other planets throughout the universe.

Sebastián: Thank you for asking this question, because this question talks about who God is, at the end of the day. When I started to receive what I received in 2013, the first thing I heard was, “I came here to answer the question of who I am.” And that voice explained to me how important it is to answer that question, because the way we answer the question of who God is, what God is, is the way in which we’re going to have a relationship with ourselves, with the universe, and with our brothers and sisters.

I think your question is the fundamental question. Moving that question into the figure of Jesus and Mother Mary, for me, they are the incarnation of Christ. Christ consciousness has, let’s say, a new step of incarnation in them. After that, in this dimension of time and space, humanity and the material universe could become Christ. It is like the final step of becoming Christ for the material universe. So after the incarnation, we are all able to be Christ in our humanity, here and now, in the same way as Jesus and Mary.

Rick: So what would that mean, to be Christ? If one were to become Christ, what would that mean for the person?

Sebastián: That means to be one with your true identity, with your true Self, which is love. And because love is fundamental to creation, when you become one with that, which is your source, you become one with everything that is real. Christ is love, and love is the fundamental and the essence of everything that exists. Jesus Christ came to complete, let’s say, the process of all of us becoming Christ. In that sense, Jesus is love, as Mother Mary is. They became one with the source of all creation in all dimensions, like you and me.

Rick: I have a friend who speaks of Krishna in much the same way that you speak of Christ. He’s an American, but when he was just 19 or 20 years old, this being descended from the clouds with a retinue of celestial beings. He didn’t know who it was at the time, but he had this exchange with him for half an hour. And it was visual, not just auditory, not just in his head. Ever since then, he’s had this relationship. He discovered that this was Krishna and has had this close devotional relationship with God in that particular form.

So obviously Krishna is a Hindu deity, and in the Hindu tradition, they tend to honor all the saints and sages, including Christ and Buddha, and anybody who seems to have achieved that status. They kind of regard them all as representatives of God, or as having achieved union or oneness with ultimate reality, with our essential nature, and so on. They usually—unless, I mean, they might have their chosen object of devotion—don’t privilege one over the other. So would you have that same orientation? Or how would you relate to somebody like Ramana Maharshi, Babaji, or Anandamayi Ma? These are some of the great sages who seem to be one with God, devotees of God, and so on. What would their relationship to Jesus be?

Sebastián: I always talk from my experience and from what I receive. I think we’re talking about the same thing as those traditions. I agree with them. I think it’s all about names and symbols. Jesus said to me once, “I don’t care whether you call me Jesus, you call me brother, you call me father, or you call me your friend, as long as you call me yours.” I think the name Jesus is also a symbol for us. We need symbols. As you said in your conference, some people say that this doesn’t exist and that doesn’t exist, but in our experience, that does exist. And that is true. We need to see, understand, and have symbols, which, in other words, means to make God human. The union of God and our humanity is what Jesus means for me. Of course, other traditions have the same experience and the same knowledge, but they use different names. I’m okay with that. I agree.

I completely agree with those traditions as well.

Rick: Yes, that’s a good answer. And it’s worth noting or emphasizing what you just said, which is that pure, abstract divinity is abstract. We as human beings need a focal point of attention. So traditionally, throughout so many different cultures, there have been ways in which people have made something somewhat concrete of universal, unmanifest divine intelligence, so as to be able to engage with it in a personal manner through using our senses and our heart, and something we can actually focus on. That has taken many forms, but there’s a line from the Incredible String Band, whom you’re probably too young to remember: “Light that is one, though the lamps be many.”

Sebastián: Yes, and that is absolutely true. So it’s all about our humanity. Of course, God loves our humanity. The message here is to love our humanity and accept who we are in love within God.

Yes, sure. Thank you. Sure. What I said was that the key message here is to accept our humanity and to integrate it into love. God, of course, loves our humanity. It is okay to have our limited understanding as human beings and integrate that with the huge dimension of what God is.

So, going back to your conference, when you talked about the paradox, here we have a paradox. We can integrate and accept that we are everything, but at the same time, we are who we are. When I asked Jesus once, “What does it mean to be Christ?” he said to me, “If Christ didn’t exist, you wouldn’t have an identity.” So Christ is the identity of your being extended by God. The fullness of God becomes limited in your own identity, and He loves to be that way. Sometimes the problem we have is that we don’t accept our limits because we believe they are limits. But they are not; they are one expression of love. Our uniqueness is really holy.

Rick: That’s really interesting. In your book, you say, “Now we know we are the observer, the observed, and the relationship between them. We are the creator, the created, and the relationship between them. We are one and triune.” What that evoked in me was the notion that if God is really omnipresent, then there is no place where God is not; there is nothing that is not God. Although from our limited perspective it may appear that God is hidden or doesn’t exist, or is only here but not there, what is actually happening is that God is having that limited perspective, having chosen to squeeze the ocean into a drop, as it were.

Sebastián: That’s very interesting. Thank you for putting it this way. If you read the first part of the book, when Jesus Christ introduces the book in the first book of Choose Only Love, he says what you are saying now. He says, “There is no place where I am not.” And he gives some kind of poem, telling where he is, to let us know that there is no place where love is not.

The interesting thing here is that the difficulty we find most of the time in finding God is because we don’t look for Him inside our soul, inside our heart. If we think about Him as someone hidden, we’re going to look for Him outside ourselves. What would happen if the person you’re looking for is inside you? Are you going to look somewhere else? This is what Jesus said to me once: “You don’t find me because you don’t look for me within the only place where I am, which is you.”

Rick: I like that point. You could say that. I mean, where’s the easiest place you’re going to find something that is omnipresent? Well, it would be right where you are. You can look off at Alpha Centauri or something like that, but actually, God is as much right here as there. So why not start with here? Maybe later on you’ll find Him in Alpha Centauri. But that’s what the traditions always say: God is most readily and directly found within one’s heart, at least initially.

Sebastián: Right. And going beyond that, Jesus said to me, “I gave you the eyes for looking,” which means that if you want to find me, you should look at your brothers and sisters. Understanding that God is everything makes me understand that Christ is in you. And that’s the place where I can find Him. I believe it’s very important to walk the path of finding Christ in our brothers and sisters.

Rick: Yes. Yes. One thing that always strikes me is that holiness, or divinity, or God, can be felt within, yes, but it can also, in a sense, be seen in the world. It’s as if God is hiding in plain sight. When you think about what we’re actually looking at when we look at a butterfly, or a grain of sand, or a single amoeba under a microscope, or anything that we look at, we’re looking at this marvel of creativity and intelligence on display. It’s just there, all around us in every particle of creation, as far as we can imagine, out through the universe. It’s like there’s this ocean of God, an ocean of intelligence, and we’re like fish swimming in it. And it’s really quite obvious if we think of it that way. It seems to me that over time, that would ripen or mature into a much more palpable perception.

It won’t just be an intellectual thing where you imagine how amazing a cell is; there would be this constant appreciation of everything that you apprehend.

Sebastián: Right. That brings me to the concept of contemplation. Observing from the eyes of love is what contemplation means for me. When we look at everything through contemplation, we can find that experience of seeing the wonders you are talking about. We can live in an attitude of discovering, every single minute of our life, the miracles and the mystery of life. Once we have that way of watching everything, observing everything from the standpoint of contemplation, we really can experience the vastness of this intelligence. I found myself saying, “How could God have created something like this?” I mean, looking at a bird or different ways of expression. You start enjoying Creation when contemplating it.

Rick: Yes, you do. I saw a cartoon the other day. It had a mother bird and a baby bird sitting on a wire, and the mother bird said to the baby bird, “You are the universe thinking you’re a bird.” But, yes, a few questions came in. Let me see if there’s one that’s appropriate just now. All right, this one might be relevant at the moment. This is from Rose Ganon in Bluebell, Pennsylvania. A Course of Love talks about the elevated self of form. How would you describe that in your experience?

Sebastián: I think it’s what we talked about before. The elevated form that A Course of Love talks about is being Christ in our humanity. We are a new humanity. I’m not talking as a master, saying something that others don’t know. I’m just talking about what Jesus said to me. We are now living as a new humanity. Human beings are not as they were 10,000 years ago. We are different human beings, even though we are all human beings. The new human being is the human-God, the human-Christ. So, for me, the elevated form is the integration of all of our humanity into Christ. The question in these times is: How am I going to express the Christ that I am?

Rick: And the answer is?

Sebastián: It goes to free will. I mean, in your conference, you opened by giving the example of some people believing that there’s no free will. I was thinking about that. What I understand is this: Free will is just about expressing love or not. It’s just about our relationship with love or not. In other words, it’s about how we respond to love. There is a relationship between Creator and creation. The question is not how much God loves me, or whether God has a relationship with me or not. The question is, what kind of relationship will I have with Him? And that’s my uniqueness. The answer to it is my uniqueness. Everyone responds in a different way to the same question.

Rick: So, in other words, the responsibility is on us to form the kind of relationship that would really be meaningful. It’s not that we can just do whatever the heck we please and expect God to do it for us. Is that what you’re saying?

Sebastián: Yes, absolutely. So you linked the subject of free will and responsibility. You gave the example of God going to jail because someone did something wrong.

Rick: I was saying a person might say, “Well, I have no free will, and everything I do is automatic. It’s the will of the Divine. Therefore, if I robbed the store, it’s the Divine robbing the store.” And then I said, “Okay, well, then it’s going to be the Divine going to jail also.”

Sebastián: I love that comparison. You related free will with responsibility. Let’s think about responsibility as the ability to respond, instead of being in charge of something. Our ability to respond, for me, is the meaning of free will. We all respond in one way or another. As you said in the beginning, I come from a large family. I have 15 brothers and sisters, which is a lot. I have the opportunity to see, in the same family, with the same mother and father, a completely different way of responding to the same fact.

It’s interesting to talk with my brothers and sisters because they see a different mother or father than I see. I understood that our memory, our mind, and our heart make something of what we receive, and we respond. So the elevated form, as it is said in A Course of Love, is, for me, the Christ we are called to express. The answer is how we express it.

Yes, sure. Thank you. Sure. What I said was that the key message here is to accept our humanity and to integrate it into love. God, of course, loves our humanity. It is okay to have our limited understanding as human beings and integrate that with the huge dimension of what God is.

Rick: Okay, yes. So we’re talking about free will and the choices one has. My experience and observation is that we don’t have complete free will to do anything. I can’t play basketball like LeBron James if I feel like it. So there’s a certain limitation that we have, and we have a certain amount of wiggle room in which we can move in one direction or another. Certain choices lead to greater freedom, and other choices lead to greater bondage. It’s like you want to go from Chicago to New York. Well, if you start heading west, you’re going in the wrong direction. You’re getting farther from New York. But if you start heading east, then you’re getting closer to New York. So it’s kind of a matter of choice which way you choose to go.

Sebastián: Yes. There was a time when I received a lot of information, and I was confused. I asked Jesus, “How can we handle different beliefs, different ideas, different theories? Which of them are true?” And He said, “The way to avoid confusion is to bring all discernment into love.” For Him, everything is about love or a lack of love. He said to me that we are absolutely free. We are free to choose only love or not, every single minute, no matter whether we go to play soccer or basketball or whatever. We can do that with love or without love. Those are the only options we have. In other words, free will is all about choosing love or not.

Rick: Now, it seems that there have been sort of supermen of love, as it were—people who have such a huge capacity for loving and huge hearts—and others, not so much, with very shrunken hearts. Can a person go from being little-league-level love to professional-level love in just one shot? I don’t know. It would take some time for the heart to unfold and develop and soften. Would you agree with that? Or is it possible for a person who has been living a very dark, negative life to suddenly blossom fully in love?

Sebastián: Yes, I believe it is absolutely possible because love is true. Being love means living by the truth, by the truth of who you are right now. When we are honest with ourselves and connect with what we are being right now, we are being love because love is what we are. How can I live by the truth every single minute of my life? Jesus said to me, “Accepting who you are here and now, and expressing it.” Every time that we express ourselves as we are, we are expressing love.

So, no matter whether you are in a dark stage of your life, or you believe you are in the darkness, if you connect with that darkness and express that, you are living by the truth, so you are being love. Love is not something that we do; it’s just what we are. It’s all about identity, Rick. What I’m trying to say is that every time you are being who you are, you are being God.

Rick: Yes. And perhaps you can choose. I know there are examples of people who underwent rather sudden transformations. St. Francis was one. Saul, who became the apostle Paul, was on the road to Damascus. Suddenly, he got zapped and underwent this huge shift. Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, was a highway robber. He met some sages who instantly inspired him, and he sat and meditated for six or seven years, but then came out as a saint. So people can undergo profound and radical transformations. Usually, I think, for most people, it’s a little bit slower, incremental and gradual, as they kind of purify their being. But it can happen quite suddenly.

Sebastián: Yes. What you say is very interesting. There are eagles, and there are also fireflies. Jesus said to me, “You are not called to be the sun shining or the—”

Rick: Twilight? A firefly is a small light.

Sebastián: Yes. Those small fireflies that fly in the darkness. They are tiny.

Rick: Oh, I think you mean fireflies—the little bugs that are out. Yes, okay, gotcha. Sorry.

Sebastián: I’m sorry. That was because of my English. Yes, you’re right. Those creatures, those beings, have light. They are beautiful and holy. And then there are big stars. The same happens with birds or eagles. There are small birds and big birds. Jesus calls me His hummingbird. He doesn’t want me to be an eagle. There are people who have had such a great transformation and done very great things. They become celebrities in some way. But most of the time, we don’t need that. We just need to be who we are, as simple as we are, and to love our tiny way of being. Being like a drop within the ocean.

Jesus said to me, “Even if you write a book and it becomes, let’s say, a bestseller, or one of the greatest books in this age, how many people will you contact compared to the whole universe? It’s nothing.” And He also said to me, “Even if you write a book that can go to every single person in this world, that means nothing compared to all the creatures. Everyone is my son or daughter, including dogs, birds, the wind, and everything. You are called to integrate everything into the totality.”

When I understood that, when I received that revelation, I started to feel happy with not needing to be such a wonderful person. I do not need to be who I am supposed to be or make such a big transformation. Virgin Mary once said something to me that I would like to share now: “When you prepare breakfast for your daughters with love, you are being God.” So it’s not about doing great things, but doing whatever you do with a lot of love.

When I understood that, when I received that revelation, I started to feel happy with not needing to be such a wonderful person. I do not need to be who I am supposed to be or make such a big transformation. Virgin Mary once said something to me that I would like to share now: “When you prepare breakfast for your daughters with love, you are being God.” So it’s not about doing great things, but doing whatever you do with a lot of love.

Rick: That’s good. If we could use an analogy, think of God as the electrical supply, the electrical field. In your house, you might have a little night-light, which serves a very valuable purpose in the middle of the night when you have to get up to go to the bathroom or something. Then you might have a spotlight out in the yard that’s really bright and lights up the whole backyard. And you have your TV, and you have all these different things that are plugged into the electrical field and express that electricity in different ways that are appropriate for their particular function.

You wouldn’t want the TV on in your bedroom all night, or the spotlight shining in your bedroom all night. You just want the night-light, and it does its thing. So it’s like each little—each of us, we could say—is like an appliance that’s plugged into the field of God. And we each serve our own particular function. It’s just right for us. It’s not somebody else’s function; it’s our function, and that’s the best way we can serve God.

Sebastián: Yes, and the beauty resides in being who you are. Jesus called me, during this process of receiving and writing, “a pencil in the hand of God.” That is an expression that He used a lot because it reflects what I am. A pencil is nothing without the hand, and it is completely meaningless if there is not a mind moving the pencil to share something. Maybe there are some other people who are computers or something much greater than a pencil. But in my case, I am a pencil, and I love to be that. I learned how to love my uniqueness.

The Inner Experience of Communicating with Jesus

Rick: Nice. Now I’m curious, and I’ll bet other people have been curious many, many times so far in our conversation. You’ve said, “Well, Jesus told me this,” and “Jesus told me that.” What is the actual subjective experience you’re having when you communicate with Jesus like that? I presume it’s a two-way conversation. You’ve also said, “I asked Him this question, and He answered that.” So how can you describe in some detail your inner experiences while you’re having these communications?

Sebastián: Yes. The relationship with Christ is a relationship. We can grow with that relationship as we grow with any other relationship. So, when we are more and more united to Christ, we can listen to his voice more and more clearly. And finally, we can integrate that voice into our daily life. That voice can absorb everything that we are. We can listen to him 24 hours a day, every day, with no interruptions in our activities.

I would say, as an example, that for me, listening to the voice of Christ is like a tape recorder. You push a button, and then you listen. If you don’t want to listen, you just pause it. Something like that.

Rick: Yes. So earlier in our conversation, you said that when Jesus first spoke to you, it was familiar, like a long-term relationship. The way that if your mother all of a sudden started speaking to you—if my mother died years ago, but all of a sudden she started speaking to me—I think, “Oh, yes, that’s my mother.” Very familiar. I know who that is.

So is it like a voice in your head that comes? Is there any visual component, or is it just kind of a deeper, more intuitive feeling that you translate into words in order to make it intelligible to others?

Sebastián: All of them. All of them. Sometimes the communications come into words, from mind to mind. Sometimes I have visions, and I see Jesus with his body, in his humanity, and I can read perfectly well, in my mind, all his thoughts. It’s like he thinks in my mind. There is a clear communication from mind to mind.

Sometimes it happens just from heart to heart, and sometimes that happens without any physical vision. It’s like talking with you. If I close my eyes, I know you are there, you can talk to me, and I listen to you. Sometimes it comes to the intuitive part of my soul, touches that, and gives me more creativity.

Something that I really would like to say here is that Jesus Christ loves us. And as much as we open our heart, as much as he gets into our life, he will finally talk to us in all the ways possible. Sometimes, if you need to receive a letter saying something, you will receive that.

This is very important to say here, too: there are many times when he said to me clearly that he would talk to me through this person or another person. And he does. That helps me to know that Christ also talks to us through our friends, our families, our brothers and sisters, and also through different circumstances.

Rick: Yes. Well, we were talking earlier about how everything is God, and every little particle of creation is God. So it would seem to me that the whole creation is constantly talking to us, so to speak, communicating. It’s pregnant with meaning and significance. It’s not just dumb rocks and stuff.

Sebastián: Right. Sometimes he said to me, “You will know this or that.” And I said, “How am I going to know that?” He said, “You will know.” And then you do; you receive the answer in infinite ways.

I think God can talk to us in every single way, using everything, even your illness. That’s very important. You can find the voice of Christ within your suffering. Yes. I say this because I listened to some people saying that once you are connected to God, suffering is gone, or something like that. Illness is sometimes seen as a lack of spirituality or an elevated form, or something like that. You’re right, and I don’t believe that. Most of the time, Jesus talks to me in the deepest and loveliest way during my illness, which I have a lot.

Rick: Yes. I mean, again, if the whole universe is God, if it’s all the divine appearing to have taken form, then everything in the universe and everything that happens has some kind of evolutionary agenda, some evolutionary significance, if we can see it or even if we can’t see it. I’m just asserting things that I often think, but just to put a cap on that point, here’s a question that came in from John in Texas. Texas is famous for fundamentalist Christianity. John’s question is: “One of the things that have stopped me from total acceptance of Jesus is the dogma which, over time, has grown out of the Book of Revelation. It’s so beautiful and natural to accept Christ as the embodiment of the love of God and a source. It is not so easy to accept the idea of the unforgiving nature of Jesus presented in Revelation.

It seems impossible to reconcile divine, unconditional love and the threat of everlasting hellfire.”

Sebastián: What I would say is that we are talking about love. We are talking about relationship. I watched many details of your interviews, Rick, and I love them. I saw that sometimes you ask about who God is and those kinds of questions. I think it’s very important to move from our mind to our heart, to have the experience of the relationship with Jesus Christ.

So what I would say to John is to keep your own relationship with him. It’s a relationship of love. It’s a unique relationship, like any other relationship. Once you have the experience of love, you don’t need others telling you who that person is, because you experienced it.

Rick: Yes. So what would you say to these people who say, “Well, you’re going to burn in hell because you’re gay, or because you did this or because of that”? I mean, that has turned people away, in many cases, from Jesus and from Christianity, because they just don’t like that dark and scary perspective. They can’t conceive of God behaving or treating people that way.

It’s interesting to talk with my brothers and sisters because they see a different mother or father than I see. I understood that our memory, our mind, and our heart make something of what we receive, and we respond. So the elevated form, as it is said in A Course of Love , is, for me, the Christ we are called to express. The answer is how we express it.

Sebastián: Yes. Actually, John uses the right word. He said “dogma.” Yes. Dogmatism separates. Beliefs can separate. That is why I always go back to our heart, to our feelings. In my heart, I would never conceive even the idea of a divine love punishing anyone. That’s something that we can feel.

Of course, some people say that punishment can exist. What I say to them is that those are their beliefs, but I don’t feel that. I feel love. I feel that I was created to be loved, and everyone was created to be loved, and that is what we are going to do as much as we are united to Christ. I don’t believe in punishment. I don’t believe in anything different from happiness within love.

Rick: Yes. If a child, let’s say, has dirt behind his ears and the mother scrubs it with a washcloth, the child may feel like, “I hate this. She’s punishing me,” and stop doing that. But the mother loves the child and is concerned for the child’s welfare, and so on.

In the theme that we have touched upon a number of times now, I would say that everything that happens—if we can personify God—God wants everyone to rise to the highest status of evolution possible, and everything that happens is actually in the service of that, even though it may not seem like it.

Sebastián: Absolutely. Again, thank you for bringing this up. There was once when the Virgin Mary said to me, “You are my son. I’m your mother, and I have the right to be with my son.” When I asked her, “How should I live my life?” she said, “As a baby in the arms of a mother.”

Thinking that we are babies in the arms of God, in the arms of our divine mother, is very helpful to understand our relationship with God. She explained to me clearly that sometimes the mother goes with the baby to the doctor and gives some medicine that the baby doesn’t like. However, it is the best for the baby. So she used the same example that you are using now.

I think that you are absolutely right. Sometimes the issue is our interpretation. We believe it’s a punishment, when it’s actually a grace for us.

Rick: Yes. Many people end up saying that they’re going through some terrible thing and they don’t like it. Then later on, they think, “I wouldn’t have chosen to do it any differently.” For instance, I interviewed a guy named Damien Echols, who was unjustly accused of murder and spent 18 years in prison, much of it in solitary confinement. It was a really horrific experience in prison. But he managed to survive it by going deeply into a spiritual practice, which was meaningful to him.

And now, I mean, his eyes are ruined, and his teeth are ruined, and everything, just because of the darkness and the poor food and all that stuff. But he says, “If I had to do it all over again, I would,” because he wouldn’t have had the opportunity to go so deeply into that spiritual practice if he had just been living an ordinary life.

Sebastián: Yes. I heard about him. That’s a perfect example of what we are talking about. Love will do anything to bring us into his heart. God knows us, and he knows we can. He knows how powerful we are. One of the things that we do is believe in ourselves as powerless people, but we are not. We are not.

Love can never bring you something that will hurt you. That brings me to the experience of trust. For me, trust and love are part of the same. It’s part of the unity. It’s all about trusting love.

Love can never bring you something that will hurt you. That brings me to the experience of trust. For me, trust and love are part of the same. It’s part of the unity. It’s all about trusting love.

Rick: Yes. You grow to trust your mother, even though sometimes it doesn’t seem like she’s doing what you like. But over time, you gain trust because you know where her heart is, you know how she feels about you.

Sebastián: Yes. We need to trust. We really need to trust to be happy. I would say if we trust love, we will never interpret anything as punishment or something like that.

Going back to what the Virgin Mary said once to me, she said, “Live your life as I did when I was on the Earth, with unlimited trust.” That’s a wonderful way of understanding our lives. If we trust with unlimited trust, we will never think about punishment, errors, or something like that.

Rick: Yes. Here’s a question that came in from our friend Muffy Weaver in North San Juan, California. And I think we could relate this to what you were just saying about trust. She asked, “How have you balanced being in the world with your spiritual life, such as with family, business, things like that?”

Sebastián: I want to thank her for this question. We began this interview by saying that the voice of Christ said to me when I was young that I have to be in the world without being of the world.

Rick: Which is, in case people don’t know, a line from the Bible also: “Be in the world, but not of it.”

Sebastián: Right. I would say that once we understand who we are, and that we are love, and love is Christ, everything in this experience is integrated into love. So family is, for me, a place where I can express love. Friendship is a place in which I can receive and give love. This world is a perfect world in which I can give and receive love.

Sebastián: Right. I would say that once we understand who we are, and that we are love, and love is Christ, everything in this experience is integrated into love. So family is, for me, a place where I can express love. Friendship is a place in which I can receive and give love. This world is a perfect world in which I can give and receive love.

What the Virgin Mary said to me once was, “You cannot love what you do not see if you don’t love what you do see.”

Rick: Say that again. “You can’t love what you don’t see if you don’t love what you do see?” That’s what you said. That’s interesting.

Sebastián: Right. How can I express myself, if I’m love, except by loving you and being open to receiving love from you? I believe this world is a wonderful world that gives me an opportunity to receive and give love every single minute with my family, friends, and humanity.

Love sometimes takes the form of forgiveness, so families sometimes give us a great opportunity to forgive. When you forgive others, you can forgive yourself. So they are a gift for me.

Rick: Very interesting. I mean, there are people in this world who make a big fuss about how much they love God, or they love Jesus at all. And yet, they don’t seem to love people, or they don’t seem to behave in loving ways. Always. Some people—I’m not saying all people. So I think that’s a very poignant little phrase: “You cannot love what you don’t see if you don’t love what you do see.”

Sebastián: Right. Going back to our conversation, when we said that I need to see the Christ in you to find the Christ in me, I can start understanding that God is my family, my friends, my neighbors, the nature that I have, and even the society that I have. I can express compassion with others and with me as well, as part of this world. Heaven begins here and now with our reality. It is as simple as our reality: cooking for love, talking for love, doing this or that just for love, and doing everything for love here and now. Then we can keep going forever and ever, loving. One of the questions is: If we don’t love here, why are we so sure that we are going to love in the kingdom of love?

Rick: Yes, good point. Here’s a question that came in from Elliot Robertson. I’m not sure where Elliot is located, but it says, “A Course of Love begins by saying this course was written for the mind, but only to move the mind to appeal to the heart. Could you provide an example of how our minds can appeal to the heart?”

Sebastián: I believe a good example is when we start experiencing that there is no discrepancy between our heart and our mind. If there is a discrepancy, we follow our heart until that discrepancy disappears. That’s what I believe that expression is all about. Sometimes there are discrepancies. We feel something that we want to do, but our mind says no. We need to solve that discrepancy. If there is no way to integrate that, then we have to follow our heart. That’s the meaning of bringing our mind into our heart, for me.

Rick: Good. Here’s a question on education from Katherine in San José, Costa Rica. For the most part, educational systems around the world develop rational faculties, with a little bit of artistic and physical education, but they forget about the heart. How can the heart be educated? Or at least, how can we learn to open our hearts?

Sebastián: This is something that we can all learn, like teaching or something like going to school. I would say that the way of learning is by practicing it, because God is all about experience. So we need to practice feeling, accepting our feelings, and letting our feelings guide our decisions. That’s what I would say: just practicing it.

Rick: Yes, it totally gets cultivated more and more over time. And also, you talked about trust earlier. It seems to me we can not only trust God, but trust our own heart to be a useful or reliable guide in life.

Sebastián: Yes, which also needs to be practiced. I mean, we know how to trust when we practice trust. The same happens with love. That’s why the recently published Choose Only Love book talks about healing the memory. Practicing brings us to our own experience here and now, with our humanity. It has the power to bring us what we forgot. We all know what love is, but we forget about that. We actually forgot who we are. So it’s all about remembering, and practice allows us to remember until that becomes a habit.

Rick: And so, what would be a good way of practicing? What are some examples? For instance, people practice meditation, or they practice yoga, or they go to church, or they pray, or they do different things. What would be a recommended practice here?

Sebastián: Loving. Practice love. Love everything. Love everything that arises in you…

Rick: Everything, everything that arises, yes.

So, no matter whether you are in a dark stage of your life, or you believe you are in the darkness, if you connect with that darkness and express that, you are living by the truth, so you are being love. Love is not something that we do; it’s just what we are. It’s all about identity, Rick. What I’m trying to say is that every time you are being who you are, you are being God.

Sebastián: Yes. Right. Everything that arises in you. There is a chapter in Choose Only Love that talks about that practice. It says: “This is not about practicing some particular way of praying, meditating, reading, or that kind of practice, which is related to education. Education is all about practicing and repeating different acts to make them habits. What we are talking about here is practicing unconditional love, trusting everyone, even if there is no reason to trust. Just trust them.”

Rick: Well, since she asked about education, here’s a good example: kids in school can be very mean to each other. There’s a whole problem with bullying. Sometimes kids actually commit suicide because they’ve been bullied so much. I remember when I was a kid in grammar school, I would sometimes befriend the nerdy kids. Maybe I was one myself, but if somebody was being picked on, I would actually make that person my friend and hang around with them because I felt sorry for him or something. I was kind of a nerdy kid too, so maybe it was birds of a feather.

But if kids were to hear this, they would think, “Yes, I mean, what does it do to this person in school whom I pick on because he looks different, or has his wet hair a certain way, or whatever?” But what does it do to me? Because I think if we mistreat somebody, we may hurt them, but it’s like a knife that doesn’t have a handle and is sharp on both ends. It’s all knife. We might stab somebody, but at the same time, we cut our hand, so we get injured as much or even more than the person we’re hurting.

Sebastián: Right. If we understand the fact that we are here to grow in our knowledge of love, in our knowledge of who we are—which, in other words, means our knowledge of God—that experience of bullying, or any other experience that can hurt me or others, is integrated into love. Maybe that shows me how cruel I am with others and gives me an opportunity not to be selfish and arrogant. For the other person, that situation can give them an opportunity to grow in forgiveness.

You gave a great example about schools, which is something we can see all over the world: experiencing violence and that kind of situation in them. I believe that happens because there is no love. We need to move our education system toward love, as with everything, including the business world and any other human aspect. Schools don’t teach love. They don’t bring you to the practice of love most of the time. We are facing the effects of that. We have an education system in which we only give information, but we don’t allow people to find wisdom, so they become tired, alienated, and suffer.

Rick: Yes, there was a story on the news about a month ago where some kid who had been bullied and picked on brought a shotgun into school. He went into the bathroom, the men’s room. Maybe he was only going to shoot himself, but who knows what he was going to do? Anyway, this coach encountered him, and rather than be violent in some way, he just took him in his arms and hugged him. He kept hugging him. Then some other teacher came and took the gun away. The coach just kept hugging the guy, even after the gun was taken away, and telling him how much he loved him and how special he was and all that stuff. This guy was praised on the news for that particular reaction. It could have been a very different outcome, but he somehow turned it around with love.

Sebastián: Absolutely. I think you gave a great example. That boy needs the experience of love. What happens in that case, and in any other case of violence, is that there is a lack of love somehow. We can heal that by showing our love. I hope love begins to be the most powerful weapon we use for the future.

Rick: Yes. When I think of love, I think of a scale or a spectrum of refining and softening the heart, or coarsening the heart, making it cruder and grosser and harder. You can move in either direction on that spectrum according to what you do. I mean, there are certain things which, if we do or say them, are only going to make our heart harder. In fact, in the Bible it often says, well, the Pharaoh was going to let the Israelites go, but he hardened his heart, and then he changed and wouldn’t let them go. So there’s that expression of hardening the heart before doing something mean. And I think doing mean things actually does harden the heart, whereas doing something compassionate or loving softens the heart.

So, like we were saying earlier about whether you could go from being extremely hard-hearted to a saint overnight—maybe that’s not so common, but you can at least move in that direction by behaving in a way that cultivates or refines the heart.

Sebastián: Right. Your reflection brings me now to a very important knowledge and understanding in my spiritual path that changed everything in my life. That was when I understood that I was created to be loved. I was not even created to love. Love extends by itself when it comes to me. We all have been created to receive love. If we receive that, then love extends by itself. The experience of receiving true love, pure love, transforms our life into love. It’s all about receiving love.

The boy that you mentioned as an example, as well as any other person who creates a situation of violence, is asking for love, for the experience of being loved. We need to have that experience and go back to it. I think violence goes up and up as a growing shout asking for love. If we don’t listen to it, that shout will keep growing. If we listen to it, then it will decrease until it disappears.

Rick: Yes. I’ll give another nice example. December has been a month in which I haven’t been preparing for interviews because I’ve been airing ones that were already recorded. So I’ve had a chance to watch some things and read some things that I ordinarily wouldn’t have. I just watched a series called College Behind Bars, which is about these prisoners in New York State who were offered a college education by Bard College while still in prison.

The program and the teachers were very respectful and loving. It was remarkable how good these men and women were as students. Many of the teachers were saying they were better than their regular students back at the college. At one point, they ended up having a debate with the Harvard debating team, and they beat them. They won the debate. So here are people who grew up in ghettos and very unfortunate circumstances, broken families, and all this stuff, who just totally blossomed when given an enriching opportunity like that.

Sebastián: I’m very familiar, Rick, with what you say. One of the activities that I do is conduct a prisoners’ group every Wednesday and Saturday. I go to the largest prison here in Buenos Aires. I share A Course of Love and whatever we do in our foundation. I have the same experience as you mentioned before. They are really happy to receive love. That’s all we need: just love.

Love is something that is beyond words. They say to me many times that they feel loved because of my presence, even more than because of what I say or don’t say. They told me, “You take a long trip to come here. You are never absent. You have a commitment with us. Due to that, we feel that we are important to you.” We need to feel that. So, as we said, it’s all about love. I believe that we can heal everything with love.

Rick: And it’s worth mentioning that these students who took the college courses have a 4% recidivism rate, meaning going back to prison after getting released, compared to about a 50% rate in the general prison population. So it makes a huge difference. When you consider how much is spent on keeping people in prison, and that the United States has the highest per capita imprisonment of any country in the world, if that money were spent to actually do something that enriches people, then we could have a lot fewer prisons and prisoners.

I don’t think this is a tangential point, because it’s a concrete demonstration of love: doing something that helps a person rather than merely punishing them.

Sebastián: Right, definitely. How to integrate them into society, how to make people feel useful and needed, how to make others feel how important they are, and how beautiful they are. We need to go back to our original stage of innocence and holiness. We need to show others that innocent being that we are. For me, the Christ in you is all that is wholly in you, all that is true about you.

Rick: Yes. A question came in from Glenn Hovemann, from Nevada City, California. Please explain how your book Choose Only Love was received by you. Before you answer that, I wanted to ask: many chapters in the book are subtitled, “A message from the voice of Christ through a choir of angels in the presence of Archangel Raphael and Archangel Gabriel.” We haven’t talked about that. We’ve been talking about communicating with Jesus, but it seems that most of the passages in your book were received from the voice of Christ through a choir of angels, and in the presence of the archangels Raphael and Gabriel. So please explain that.

Sebastián: Right. When I started receiving Choose Only Love, the first experience I had was suddenly receiving a presence full of love. It introduced itself as the medicine of God. It said to me, “I’m the medicine of God, and I came here to ask you to pray what I’m going to tell you to pray for nine days.” And I did it without asking anything.

The day after I finished the nine days of praying, I began receiving the visitation of a chorus of an uncountable number of angels, singing a song of gratitude and bringing with them the voice of Christ. Then images and music come to me. They are transformed into symbols by Archangel Raphael. Archangel Raphael was the manifestation that introduced himself as the medicine of God.

Choose Only Love came to me in that way. The choir of angels always comes, showing me the magnificence and beauty of creation. After that, the voice of Christ starts talking in my soul, in a language that does not use words. It is music, but my mind understands the meaning. After that, it is translated into human words. Archangel Raphael remains next to me, dictating what has to be translated and written. That’s basically the way it comes to me.

Rick: I’d like to make a point if some people are experiencing a bit of incredulity about archangels and angels and all of this. One way of understanding this is to think of creation as an ocean, where you have the surface level of the waves, which is obvious, but then there are deeper levels of the ocean that are not obvious. There are subtler realms of creation, which are just as real as the concrete realms that we experience in daily life. But ordinarily, we don’t experience them because we have either lost or not gained the capacity for that refined perception.

In the course of spiritual evolution, sometimes—or perhaps always, eventually—that capacity is regained or awakened. A person may begin to experience these things. In fact, I know people who experience them. You’re one, apparently; others experience them as routinely as walking through the mall or walking down the street. Using the ocean analogy again, it’s like you become a scuba diver who is comfortable exploring every level of the ocean. It becomes a direct experience for you rather than merely a concept. So anyway, hopefully that puts it more in context.

Sebastián: I think it does. I think the analogy with the ocean is perfect because once we go deeper and deeper in the ocean, everything is seen differently. There are different lights and different beings. We see more and more when we go deeper into the Truth. I agree with what you said.

Rick: Yes. When I’m doing these interviews, I often think about who might be listening. I often get feedback later, sometimes from people who are listening. So I try to think, “Okay, what point can we make here that would connect with this or that person?”

Sebastián: What I would like to say here is that the experience itself is not essential, although it is important because it gives us the opportunity to understand. What is essential is love: the love that is put into those words, and the capacity to bring you to your own experience of the Divine Love. That is what is essential in this manifestation.

Rick: Good. You mentioned this earlier, and I want to come back to a point where you say, “The main message of this work is that the time for a new humanity has arrived. Humanity is ready to manifest the living Christ in each of us. We are each of us Christ.” First, comment on that, and then I’ll ask you a question.

Sebastián: Oh, do you mean my comment?

Rick: Yes, say something about that. And then I have a question for you.

Sebastián: Yes. As I said before, we are in the stage of a new humanity. The new is already here; that’s why we are facing a lot of transformation. Everything is being transformed due to the new consciousness, the new humanity. This new humanity is humanity united to Christ. We are all called to express the Christ that we are. That’s the meaning of the Second Advent, based on what Choose Only Love says.

🎵 Earth, change, and hope

Rick: Well, you remember earlier, John from Texas referred to Revelation. Revelation is very symbolic and cryptic and hard to understand. But there are parts in it that sound like things are going to get pretty wild around here. There are people, as a movement, who feel like human extinction is a real possibility. There are various environmentalists who say—I mean, there’s one guy, for instance, whom I listened to recently, who said that even if all people were to disappear from the Earth tomorrow, sea levels would still rise 20 or 40 feet over the remainder of the century. Since people aren’t going to disappear, that would result in huge upheavals of society and economies and all this stuff.

Something that I really would like to say here is that Jesus Christ loves us. And as much as we open our heart, as much as he gets into our life, he will finally talk to us in all the ways possible. Sometimes, if you need to receive a letter saying something, you will receive that.

So does the birthing of a new humanity involve a period of great chaos and disruption? Are we sort of entering into that now? And what kind of messages come through in your communications with Christ about that?

Sebastián: Thank you for pointing this out. I have received a lot of messages saying something quite different from what is heard now about chaos or that kind of thing. Jesus said very clearly to me that Earth and the world will not be destroyed, because whatever becomes one with God can never be destroyed, due to the fact that it is eternal. Once He became human as Christ, the whole material universe became holy due to what He is.

Transformation is the right word here. Integration into love is what is happening. Christ is coming at this time. This is a new consciousness. That is what we are experiencing. Since this transformation is universal, and it’s too big and too new, we don’t understand it. We are afraid. That is why we have a lot of projection of fear. However, based on what I receive, I receive the opposite of anything related to destruction, chaos, or something like that.

Virgin Mary said to me very clearly, “These are the times of my victory.” She didn’t say, “My victory will be in the future,” or something like that. We are now in the time of the victory of love. We will see Heaven on Earth.

Rick: I believe that too. But even now, destruction is taking place. Look at the Amazon rainforest, not too far from you, and Bolsonaro’s attitude toward it. Look what’s happening in Australia with these fires. I’m in communication with friends who have been on BatGap who had to evacuate their homes. So on a local level, there’s definitely destruction, and it’s quite apocalyptic in some cases.

The question, I guess, is how widespread will it become? If there’s a huge increase in sea-level rise, for instance, that could be really disruptive. If we go up two, three, or four degrees Celsius in global temperatures, that will be extremely disruptive, and major cities will have to be evacuated. I mean, there’s the ideal we’d like to arrive at of Heaven on Earth, but then there’s the rearrangement of things that might have to take place before we arrive there.

Sebastián: Yes. From my point of view, at the end of the day, it’s all about relationship. What is happening, based on what I receive, is that the universe is telling us that we need to change our relationship with the Earth, with the environment. And that’s what we are doing.

What you said is true, but it’s also true that humanity has never before experienced and manifested such love for the Earth. This is a manifestation of love. We are facing both. There are more people expressing their love for the Earth every single day than ever before in humanity. We can see the movement of Greta Thunberg, or people like her. Yes, young people, even here in Buenos Aires, who are very aware of loving the Earth. They are the new beings, the new humanity.

So it is true, there is a transformation, but on the other side, we have never seen people loving the Earth as much as we are seeing today.

Rick: That’s a really good point, and it warms my heart to hear you say that. It’s the kind of hope that I live with. I’ll just rephrase it slightly: Yes, things seem to be getting worse and worse and worse on one level, and there are so many examples we can cite. But on the other hand, never before, as far as we know, has there been a mass awakening in collective consciousness as absolutely as is now taking place.

You don’t really hear too much discussion of that when you hear people elaborating on the problems, because they don’t really know that it’s happening. But some of us know that it’s happening. This whole show that I do is based upon the fact that it’s happening. So, in some way—which I don’t completely understand the mechanics of—I think this awakening that’s taking place is God’s antidote to the dire situation we’ve gotten ourselves into.

Sebastián: Yes. Everything comes to us so we can grow in terms of knowledge and expression of love. Of course, we are accustomed to focusing on the darkness to heal the darkness. But there is another way, which is healing by walking through the light, focusing on the light.

I see a lot of light in that area. I see people helping dogs in the streets, new regulations, countries changing their systems. In Buenos Aires, for instance, all the zoos were eliminated, so animals can never be in jail anymore, by law. It is a big change to see a government dictating a law that protects the rights of animals. Yes, that’s great. So now in this country, as it happens in many other countries, you cannot hurt an animal without punishment. That’s a big change. I see a lot of light in that.

Rick: Yes. When you look at the nature of the problem, and specifically global warming, and you look at what has happened with the fossil fuel companies, you see that the whole thing has been motivated to a great degree by greed and short-sightedness: profit, profit, short-term profit, this quarterly bottom line, as opposed to what the world might be like in 20, 30, 40, or 50 years from now—as if we were living as though there were no tomorrow.

For instance, fossil fuel companies sit on five times the amount of carbon that we can afford to burn if we want to keep the global temperature under two degrees Celsius, and they fully intend to extract and burn it, which really can’t happen. I mean, if it does happen, we’re cooked. The antidote, ultimately, is the opposite of greed and short-sightedness, which is love.

Sebastián: Right, right. I think the key message here is that the Earth and humanity are shouting that we all need to go back to love in order to survive. It is just a matter of survival, and people know how to survive. We will understand that the best way to survive is to love each other.

Rick: Yes. And not only to survive, but to thrive.

Sebastián: Right, right. Thank you for that clarification.

Closing reflections and books

Rick: Yes. Well, that might be a good place to wrap it up. It’s kind of a positive note. Is there anything we haven’t discussed that you would like to discuss? Pretty much?

Sebastián: Yes. I mean, love is so huge, so we can talk forever and ever about it if we want. I really enjoyed this interview. I would like to say, thank you, Rick, for what you do. I really love Buddha at the Gas Pump. I would just like to make one comment about that. During the manifestations, Jesus said to me that there would be expressions that would show the different ways of expressing the same love. I strongly believe you are doing that. I want to thank you for what you do. Love includes diversity. We all talk about the same love in different ways. I thank you for that.

Rick: Thank you. That’s definitely my feeling. The diversity point you made. They say the variety is the spice of life, right? The more nourishing an environment is, the more diverse it is. Like if you go to the Amazon rainforest, to refer to that again, it’s a nourishing environment for life. So there’s a huge diversity of plant and animal life and food you wouldn’t find in the Sahara Desert. So I just kind of feel like in the garden of God, so to speak, diversity is a natural expression. Having everything just be the same one thing and nothing else is contrary to the way God rolls.

Sebastián: I agree completely with you. Thank you for expressing that. It’s very needed and very appreciated.

Rick: Thank you. So I’ll show the cover of your book here, Choose Only Love, and I’ll have a link to it on your page on batgap.com. It’s the first of, like, five books or something, isn’t it?

Sebastián: Seven books.

Rick: Seven books. Yes. And you’re just continuing to receive these, and you’ll keep putting them in book form and making them available.

Sebastián: Yes. Actually, now I’m receiving another book, which is going to be called From the Heart of Mary. I know that I’m going to receive a second book after that, which is going to be called From the Heart of Jesus, and both are going to be a unity.

Rick: Right. Are they in Spanish as well as English? I imagine they are.

Sebastián: Yes. Yes. Good. Yes.

Rick: Good. All right. Well, thank you. And do you do anything in person with people? Or do you have Skype conversations? Do you teach retreats or anything like that, or mainly just books?

Sebastián: I do everything that the Spirit wants me to do. I do Skype with people. I’m also open to doing retreats. Actually, the place where we are now on the island, as I talked about in the beginning with you, is conceived as a retreat center. I receive people. I talk to everyone who wants to talk with me through Skype, Zoom, or personally. I go everywhere if they need me. I am open to all of that.

Rick: Great. So people could probably find how to get in touch with you through your website. And people can do that if they want to. And they’ll probably find information about your events if there are any scheduled. Yes, great. Okay, well, thanks, Sebastián. I really enjoyed getting to meet you. I hope to meet you in person someday.

Sebastián: Thank you very much. Thank you for making me feel so comfortable.

Rick: Oh, well, vice versa. I feel comfortable too. Thank you. And just to close, thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching. We will now be resuming our regular weekly session of recorded interviews, and so there’ll be another one next week. Go to the upcoming interviews page on batgap.com if you’d like to see the schedule. You can even sign up to have it put into your calendar and get a notification when the interview is taking place. Okay, thanks for listening or watching. See you next week. Thanks again, Sebastián. Love to you. Thank you.