Irma Francis Transcript

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Irma Francis Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually Awakening people. We’ve done over well over 600 of them now. And if this is new to you, and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to Bat gap. And look under the past interviews menu. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on the site. And there’s also a page explaining alternatives to PayPal. My guest today is Irma Francis. And, you know the subtitle of BatGap his conversations with ordinary spiritually Awakening people, I think I just said that a minute ago. But anyway, emphasis on the word ordinary. You know, I, I interview some pretty famous people sometimes, because just that’s the way it is, if you find out about them easily, because they’re famous. But we really actually like interviewing people who are not famous and not trying to be famous. And you know, they’re just because one of the original motivations for starting this show is to demonstrate to people that you don’t have to be special or glow in the dark, or wear white robes or anything like that to have had, or potentially have a spiritual awakening. It’s not something for extraordinary people. It’s something for everybody. So that’s how I started it, and just interviewing people here in my town, and it’s grown. And, you know, but we’d like to have plenty of such people in the mix. So I think we could say that Erma Francis is one such person. And I have a bio here that she sent me, but I think it’s gonna become it’s she’s obviously gonna want to say this stuff when we get started. So I think we’ll just get started. And you probably want to start Irma with what happened to you at the age of eight. You want to start there?

Irma Francis: Sure. I can start there. Been some time ago?

Rick Archer: 30 years ago?

Irma Francis: Yeah. Yeah, a little less than 30. Well, it eight, I was sitting in my family’s home, and just kind of sitting there peacefully, not really thinking about too much of anything. And I had this experience where, I was above myself, looking at myself. And my question was, well, if I’m up there, and down here, which one am I? That puzzled me on one hand, and on another hand, it seemed natural.

Rick Archer: Kind of reminds me of Eckhart Tolle, his experience, remember that where he said, I can’t live with myself anymore. Then he thought, wait a minute, are the two of me?

Irma Francis: Right, yes. So I just sat there having that experience of being above myself looking at myself, and kind of taking that all in.

Rick Archer: Was it kind of like a near the type of out of body experience you hear about where people are being operated on and they’re up near the ceiling watching the surgeons or was it different in some sense? Were you actually looking from the ceiling perspective down at your body 10 feet below? Yes.

Irma Francis: Yes. I didn’t see my physical self above me.

Rick Archer: Your senses were up near the ceiling, looking down on this little girl.

Irma Francis: Right, exactly. So I just sat in that for a while and then I felt this loving presence enter the room. This presence, told me to put on my shoes and go outside and sit on the front porch. I had never felt this presence before or heard this voice before. So, I just followed  the  instructions. I put my shoes on and went outside and sat on the front porch. When I did, all the colors of the sky and the trees and everything around me was just really bright and seemed to be like pulsating with an energy that I really didn’t see things that way before this. I sat down on the front porch, and when I did, I started feeling this energy coming up from my toes through my body, going back and forth, back and forth until it exited the top of my head. When it did, it was like the sky opened up in a way. An energy then came from the sky and entered the top of my head.  Now there was this circulating reciprocal energy going back and forth. As this was happening, I could feel every part of me being filled with this energy and light. Then everything around me became this energy and light, it felt natural.  In my eight year old mind, I thought this is what every eight year old experiences or child experiences. So I just allowed this to unfold.  As it was unfolding, I could see  that everything my eyes fell upon was kind of like an image coming out of a backdrop of light.  I just allowed all this to, to unfold and just trusted it. As this was unfolding, I heard a voice say, “you’re being given a choice to choose your true self, your soul or if you don’t choose that, you’ll forget your true self. You’ll believe whatever the world tells you about who you are, and what you are.” The voice told me it didn’t matter which one I chose, but I did have to make a choice. I knew that I had to choose my true self, my soul, which I did. Then the intensity of the energy started lessening and the sky closed up. Then I was just sitting there in this choice that I made. I knew that I was making a commitment to that choice and that I would always keep that commitment. So that was my first awakening, I guess that was an awakening.

Rick Archer: Sounds like it. So, you know, throughout history, people have reported awakenings and, you know, getting zapped by some kind of energy or power or sometimes it’s a vision like the children in Medjugorie, or, you know, there was that other one in Portugal, I forget who those kids were. Remember that one?  We’ll think of it. Or like Saul on the road to Damascus or Muhammad,  getting zapped by angels and so on. all of these cases, at least most of them, I think there’s a kind of a conscious presence or entity or angelic being involved. It’s not just some impersonal energy. There’s, and in your case, you know, I mean, you were actually given a couple of messages, one was put on your shoes and go outside and, and the other was, okay, what are you going to choose? So, you know, to me that suggests, and I know that you’re kind of we’ll talk about Yogananda more later and Yogananda talks about some beautiful experiences of Communicating with Sri Yukteswar after he had dropped the body. So it suggests to me that there was some kind of celestial intervention or something some higher being was kind of tapping you like Richard Dreyfus in close encounters getting zapped.

Irma Francis: Yeah, I mean, for sure. whatever this presence was, whatever, that’s what

Rick Archer: Those other girls were from Fatima, Portugal.

Irma Francis: This presence was very loving and I knew to trust it and to follow, I had no fear at in the experience.

Rick Archer: Good. Yeah. And the reason I brought up the point is just that. I think it’s important. Personally, I feel that there is this sort of divine realm. And it may not be the ultimate absolute impersonal level of creative, you know, non creation, because that’s beyond creation. But it’s, you know, what the Vedic culture would call Adhidaivic level, sort of celestial level. They have three levels, Adhibhuta, Adhidaiva, and Adhyatma. Atma would be the absolute Bhuta would be the gross world, but there’s this intermediary range or field. And I don’t know, it’s good to highlight that, because sometimes in the, in their approach to spirituality, people don’t take that in consideration. And I think you’re a good example of it coming into play.

Irma Francis: Yeah, as I got older and started reflecting back and kind of connecting the dots, I did realize that, you know, around seven or eight is kind of when brainwaves are shifting into different brain waves. There’s a change that happens in children from seven to eight and it was kind of, I still wonder to this day, if that, you know, was somehow divinely timed that, as I would have been kind of going over into that place of developing a persona. Yeah, that’s when that stepped in.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, before that age, a lot of kids report having past life memories or, you know, seeing little angels or, you know, little subtle beings that they play with, and, you know, different things like that are experiencing unity. And that’s kind of around that age that we really begin to solidify. And it’s interesting that you were given the choice, you know, do you want to remember this? Or do you want to, like, you know, go into the matrix and forget about it.

Irma Francis: And, you know, here I am, at this age, and there’s no way I could ever, ever forget that experience I never have. And, you know, as my life unfolded, there were many, many other experiences that continue to happen. It’s kind of reminders.

Rick Archer: Yeah, we’ll talk about some of those. So let’s continue unfolding your story. Do you feel that after having had that experience that day, it was a kind of a watershed moment and, and after that you are a different little girl? I mean, you’re different in perceiving people around you and your classmates and all that stuff.

Irma Francis: Yes, different in the sense that I just woke up to this awareness and understanding that I was a soul in a body. Just the idea of that, I was in love with life, everything was like this exciting, adventure and really, really felt like the Garden of Eden to me. It really did.

Rick Archer: And did he keep feeling like that? Or did you sort of feel buffeted and battered by the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune causing you to lose it.

Irma Francis: No, it kept feeling like that. Just recently I rewatched. I watch it every once in a while.

Rick Archer: Brother Sun Sister Moon?

Irma Francis: Uh huh. Yeah. How did you How did you know?

Rick Archer: I was? Because I’m, I’m a professional psychic and my Okay. Okay. Because I’ve heard you mentioned it a couple of times. And so I’ve been thinking about the movie lately.

Irma Francis: Oh, oh, I didn’t. I didn’t. Yes. And how St. Francis was experiencing kind of Like God and everything. That’s what my experience was like. And I’ve never lost that. I mean, of course, you know, trials and tribulations throughout life. But I’ve never, never lost that.

Rick Archer: I did another example of somebody who got zapped and did a big turn around. Yeah, yeah. So I take it that you managed to avoid many of the teenage indulgences that a lot of us got into.

Irma Francis: I don’t know about that.

Rick Archer: But, you know, let people kind of go crazy when they’re teenagers and, you know, drugs and this and that get lost for a while.

Irma Francis: And no, no drugs or alcohol. I mean, some alcohol when I, you know, was older and adult, but, um,

Rick Archer: and that’s great. Yeah, I mean, a lot of us might need at least I feel like I spent a lot of years doing repair work, you know, after what I did when I was a teenager, and I didn’t have any childhood. Aha thing like you did. So it’s, it’s kind of a real blessing that you had that at such a young age. Yeah, it

Irma Francis: definitely was, it gave me a guidance to follow an inner guidance that, you know, I still, I have always followed that throughout my life, that inner guidance. Well, not always, anytime I haven’t met, yes.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Did it improve your functioning in the world? Like, did you start getting better grades or get along better with people or anything like that? I

Irma Francis: think I always got along fine with people. I wasn’t that interested in school. I wanted to be outside in nature. Yeah, and you know, being in the city of Chicago, kind of the center of Chicago, there was a lot of diversity. And in my high school years, it was during the time of a lot of chaos and violence around racial injustice. And in my high school was total violence every day. Yeah. I mean, I’m laughing. It certainly was not funny. People were being harmed, and there were violence. But there was violence. I just wasn’t afraid, though. I just wasn’t afraid that my sister was at the same high school. And sometimes we would try to go to our class and couldn’t get in. I mean, there were there was tear gas and niacin guns, and wow, yeah, my sister would come running and trying to find ran, and she would find when she said we would have to run him. We got to run we have to get out. We have to, you know, and, and I would run, but I wasn’t, wasn’t afraid.

Rick Archer: That’s interesting. Yeah, I think it was, at least one of your blog posts was about fear. And I was reminded of a verse in the Upanishads, which is certainly all fear is born of duality. And it seems like you had clicked into a unity experience, which made you fearless.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. I remember. I don’t know if that was the same blog you’re talking about? Or? And I remember one day thinking, you know, we do live in a world that can create a lot of fear and caused us to be afraid and just dawned on me well, what if we loved fear? Hmm. It kind of just evens things out. I mean, that is possible to love fair,

Rick Archer: or anything. Are you saying that, you know, the way you had been functioning? Whatever arises you love that?

Irma Francis: Pretty much? Pretty much yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I didn’t know as life was unfolding. I didn’t know anything about spirituality. I didn’t know anything about religion until my parents sent me to church. After that experience, I didn’t have any awareness of unity consciousness or what that was.

Rick Archer: So in other words, you just had a nice experience, but you didn’t know what what it was and sounds like you didn’t even wonder too much what it was you just enjoyed it?

Irma Francis: Well, I Yes, I did enjoy it. And I thought everybody had that experience. And that’s when things started getting A little rough when, you know, I would run into different circumstances. And it’s like, Well, how could you say that? Or do that? I mean, that doesn’t match. And so I really, it took me a long while to understand what was going on with other people.

Rick Archer: You try to explain your experience to other people?

Irma Francis: I didn’t, I didn’t. And actually, I think the first person I told I was in my late 30s. Before I ever shared it with anybody,

Rick Archer: that’s a long time. I mean, such a profound experience. I should think you would have tried to talk about it with your best friends.

Irma Francis: Well, what I did, oh, yeah, and I don’t looking back, I don’t know why I did. And I think I just accepted everybody best friends are of course kind and caring and loving.

Rick Archer: Around just passed me a question. She wants to know, what was your earliest memory? Do you mean, like, released in her whole life? Like when she was two years old or something? Yeah, what would have been your earliest earliest memory that you can remember?

Irma Francis: I kind of remember around two and a half three

Rick Archer: significant or just some trivial thing?

Irma Francis: Um, I, my memory is I just was kind of observing the people around me in a place of peace.

Rick Archer: You felt peaceful? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So she, you can hear the answer later, but you’re gonna have to listen to this, you want to hear those answers. So, so, back to your teenage years. I mean, kids are kids, you know, and were you were kids, like, pressuring you to do things like drink or take drugs or have sex or you know, things that teenagers start getting into. And this sort of spiritual awakening, if we want to call it that just give you a sensibility or a judgment to not do those things, and perhaps the gravitate toward friends that weren’t interested in them?

Irma Francis: Well, I had the same three or four girlfriends, all the while, through grade school, and through high school and witches, you know, we’re all good girls. And I do remember, I didn’t think of these things, then. But sometimes, you know, reflecting back, I do remember, always wanting to like, raise the energy, like raise the vibrations, and just kind of, I wanted to bring them into this, this higher place. I didn’t know what I was doing at the time. And they used to call me. One of the things to call me the pied piper. Just follow her she was she’s going I really, I don’t, but I do know how I want to feel. And yeah,

Rick Archer: so like, for instance, if your girlfriends were all depressed about something, or if they were cabling, you know, being petty or something like that, you would try to shift the atmosphere and lift them to a higher level of functioning.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, I didn’t know as I was going, especially, you know, through grade school and high school, I didn’t know what I was attempting to do with people. I I never shared my eight year old experience, because I still thought everybody had bad. But I somehow was always wanting to kind of bring people together and lift energy higher.

Rick Archer: That’s great. You mentioned your parents sent your church sometime after this happened to that they’re doing so have anything to do with this experience? Or was it more like alright, she’s old enough, she should go and experience church.

Irma Francis: I’m not sure why they waited until I was about 10. And I don’t remember if my other brothers and sisters were going to church before that. My parents had no idea about this experience. None at all. So yeah, they sent me to a Baptist church. And up up until that point, I had never been taught any religion or taught anything about God, or anything. And so I’m in this church and I and it was kind of a church of God fearing hell, damnation. kinda brimstone. Yeah, and that we’re all kind of born sinners and that kind of stuff. And I would listen to this. And this might sound terrible, but I thought maybe something was like mentally wrong with them. You’re right. It sounds terrible to say, but I am like, that’s not possible. Because I did make the connection that what they were trying to teach was connected to this experience I had had. And I’m like, Well, maybe what I experienced was God related, what they’re calling God. But there was no fear. There was no Island damnation, there was no punishment, no any of it. So it was such a contrast. And that really was a turning point. Like, what is going on here? Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah, man, if I could put it in a sentence or two, you know, what is usually presented in terms of religion is a thoroughly distorted remnant of what was once a profound, beautiful spiritual awakening that somebody had, you know, Jesus, or Buddha or somebody, but it just gets, like the old party game, we whisper something next to the next to the next next goes around and gets completely distorted. That’s what’s happened over the centuries.

Irma Francis: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and I knew, I knew not to question knew not to say anything. Well, I didn’t feel safe. Yeah, feel safe there.

Rick Archer: I mean, you just go once? Or did you actually have to go for a while? No, we kept,

Irma Francis: we kept going. Went to clubs and, and I just, you know, made the best of it. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Did at some point, you must have realized, I mean, you just said a minute ago that you dimly realize that what these guys were saying was, in some way related to this experience you had, but at some point, you must have thought, you know, so some people must have must be able to express this better than these guys. Did you? Did you begin to seek out you know, clearer sources of spiritual knowledge?

Irma Francis: Well, I didn’t know how to. I really didn’t know where where to look or who to turn to.

Rick Archer: There was no Google in those days.

Irma Francis: Right. What I did do is when I was around 10, because I did recognize that I most likely wasn’t going to be understood. And it was really, really important to me, because I took my commitment seriously, to remember. And so I would, I would write poetry. And I would journal about the experiences that I was having, so I wouldn’t forget.

Rick Archer: And how was it that writing poetry helped you remember, just to kind of by expressing it. Now, some people say that writing their their spiritual experiences helps to integrate and solidify them.

Irma Francis: Mm hmm. Well, it was an I just, it was like, honoring, honoring my experience and honoring the oneness that I felt with everything, especially nature and animals. It was an honoring of that kind of talking to them.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that you mentioned that you continued to have transcendent experiences. So it wasn’t just a one off, you know, deal when you were eight years old. But there continued to be glimpses and flashes and awakenings.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah, lots of lots of things happening. I would see spirits sometimes.

Rick Archer: Like, what did they look like? Um, kind of. They offered us

Irma Francis: Yeah, Matt. Not salad. But always friendly. Never, never anything. Never anything bad. And I’m pretty sure I don’t I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure I mean, I always knew what people were thinking. Like, if what they were saying and doing wasn’t a complete match. I could see it. I knew it all the time. And I didn’t know he say anything but I could always see that

Rick Archer: must be kind of painful to watch President debate?

Irma Francis: Well, I mean, somewhere, I think in what I sent you, you know, there has been throughout my life this experience of a blessing and a curse.

Rick Archer: Yeah, elaborate on that?

Irma Francis: Well, um, there is just this heightened awareness that I can always see beyond what’s happening on the surface level. And in some ways that’s done me a lot of good. And you can’t, you can’t always confront people when you know that what they’re saying isn’t necessarily the truth or whatever. It just

Rick Archer: reminds you that Jim Carrey movie Liar Liar. Yeah, but it’s kind of handy. I mean, jeez, you could go to Las Vegas and be a great poker player, you know, because nobody could bluff you.

Irma Francis: Well, that’s possible.

Rick Archer: No, but seriously, it seems like I mean, I bet you, despite the fact that that might have sometimes been awkward or unpleasant or something, I bet you would never have traded in that ability. I never thought you would not rather not have it?

Irma Francis: No, absolutely not. And in fact, even if I tried, couldn’t go away.

Rick Archer: And imagine what the world would be like if everybody function that way? Yeah. Yeah, I, I actually do imagine those things. No, they’re there’s there’s a Sanskrit phrase, rhythm bar progress means that level of intellect which knows only truth, and it said that if a person has that attainment, then just really describe that they can easily discern truth from falsehood. And if they want to know about something, they they see it in a true light, you know, they’re not easily deluded or mis misled by appearances or other things.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, that is part of what I would call a curse of bone. And I don’t, I don’t usually think along those terms, but, you know, there was this extreme passion for truth. Yeah, extreme patent still is for true. And, and I don’t, I’m calling it a curse, because I can’t think of another way to put it right now. But I can clearly see, you know, in our, in our world today, truth versus not truth and the curse is how can this be? How can how can we have gotten this far and still be doing what we’re doing?

Rick Archer: Well, that’s very interesting, actually, in terms of current events, because there are so many things in politics in health care, you know, the whole thing around COVID vaccines, the whole thing with Q and on conspiracy theories, everything that’s going on with Ukraine and what Russia is saying versus what the allies are saying, and, and so on. And, you know, a lot of people get polarized into different perspectives around these issues. And they usually feel that they have the truth, and everybody else doesn’t. So do you, when you’re exposed to those things? Do you usually have what you feel is a an attunement to the reality of the situation that is not just colored by aroma Francis’s personal opinions, but that is really has some kind of objective reality to it.

Irma Francis: Well, I mean, it’s, it’s been such a major thing with friends and family, you know, going going through all of that and the division that it’s created, and I actually you know, kind of reignited my passion towards expressing myself because of the pandemic and politics and all the intensity in the darkness and the division. It’s like, I not getting pulled into and not that I’m not aware, I am aware that I’m not getting pulled into it and I want to bring light instead of light and unity instead of division and darkness. And, you know, I have family members but are divided and friends that are divided. And I just remain in a neutral place. I don’t take a side.

Rick Archer: Do you feel that there are no sides? Or that one? Each side is equally valid? I mean, if if somebody says the earth is flat, and then Neil deGrasse Tyson says, No, it’s not. Do you feel like one side actually knows a little bit better? What’s going on than the other? Or what?

Irma Francis: Well, I mean, you know, I don’t know this, for sure. But I would think both sides, if we’re looking at it from that perspective of science, and needing to be right, it’s based on fear. It’s based on fears. So

Rick Archer: yeah, but there’s this little thing called Science, you know, and, and, and the whole purpose of science, as it was formulated was to get us out of being governed by subjective opinions, which may or may not have any correlation with reality. And, you know, it was an attempt, and is an attempt to establish what’s actually what, you know, irrespective of what people would like it to be or, you know, think it might be, and so on. And I think we’ve done pretty well with a lot. I mean, we don’t always get it right. But we have amassed a great deal of knowledge about the way the world works, which, you know, some people might disagree with, but is their opinion, on an equal footing with the findings of let’s say, you know, astronomers in the case of the shape of the Earth.

Irma Francis: Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. I’m not I’m not saying there’s, there’s not more valid perspectives. There certainly is, but I’m, in my position, and in my life, I don’t feel like in personal matters that I ever have to take any kind of stance,

Rick Archer: right? Okay. So you get, you’re saying that there are degrees of validity, but you don’t really have a dog in that fight, so to speak, and don’t want to get into arguing with people about these issues.

Irma Francis: But yes, absolutely. I love to dialogue with people. But I don’t like to debate or argue, and I simply won’t do it.

Rick Archer: But what did you mean, a few minutes ago, when you said that, given all these all the strife and differences and polarities and so you have felt moved to be more outspoken or more assertive? I don’t know if you use that word. You’ve just sort of what, in what way? Have you been more outspoken?

Irma Francis: Well, starting up a podcast to you know, connect with people that are wanting to bring a positive outlook to. Yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah. Okay. So you’re just trying to do use an analogy in a dark room, you’re just trying to light a candle, which can dispel darkness, you’re not arguing with the darkness or fighting against it or lamenting it, you’re just trying to infuse a second element into the situation? More coherence?

Irma Francis: Yeah. Okay. You know, and I wasn’t, you know, expanding out into science, I was kind of focusing more in on the political divide, and the vaccine, vaccine versus non vaccine and, you know, all of those taking aside and feeling that each person is right on the side that they’re on, I kind of was focusing in on that thing that that’s coming from a place of fear.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you discuss that on your podcast? Some?

Irma Francis: Some? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I have. Yeah. Alright.

Rick Archer: I guess we’ve done justice to that. I don’t want to spend too much time on it. Because there’s lots of interesting things here. I do feel that there’s this kind of a, I don’t know what you call it. I don’t want to call it an insanity. But just, there’s just sort of this thing where people are susceptible and impressionable. And there’s so much information flying around on the internet and so on. And we just watched this two hour documentary last night 2020 with Diane Sawyer about the Heaven’s Gate cult, in which all these people ended up committing suicide and under the influence of this, I wouldn’t consider him charismatic but they did leader who just went further and further off the deep end into insanity and everybody just drifted along with him. But there’s kind of a lot of that on a mass scale these days, I think with all the misinformation that flies about, and people are kind of easily kind of brainwashed by it, I think. But then it’s a whole can of worms, because who’s to say, Who’s brainwashed? And what is the truth? And, you know, just both sides think the other is brainwashed? I don’t know, it’s just this whole thing, because that’s been kind of interesting.

Irma Francis: Well, I’ll have to watch that. I haven’t seen that. But how do you handle that, Rick,

Rick Archer: I’ve given a lot of attention to it. And I do like to listen to podcasts and things where both sides are presented. For instance, I have become friends with this guy, Dr. Dan Wilson, who is a molecular biologist, and he has a YouTube channel called debunk the funk with Dr. Wilson. He takes all these points about vaccines and COVID, and things like that, and in a very calm way, systematically takes each point and then debunks it or presents what he considers to be the most up to date scientific information about it, and then provides references beneath that. And generally, you find that the people he’s debunking can’t provide those kinds of references, and they, and there are so many holes in what they say that it and you wouldn’t know that if you didn’t have the scientific or educational training to know it. But when you hear somebody who actually does Hi, you know, shining a light on these different statements. And the reason I find that interesting and important is that it bothers me that 1000s hundreds of 1000s of people are dying unnecessarily because of this misinformation. It’s so unavoidable, and so many cases. And that bothers me. You know, I just don’t like the idea of people dying unnecessarily. And it’s not a pleasant death. So and I know, it’s controversial, and I’ve done, you know, podcasts on that gap on conspiracy theories and stuff. And, you know, usually they only get about a 70%, like, compared to the usual topics, which are in the high 90s. But I just feel like sometimes it needs to be said,

Irma Francis: yeah, yeah, I’ll have to listen to that podcast. Sounds like a good one. You know, even in, you know, my, my own little family, I have one son, my eldest son and daughter in law, who are vaccine and my daughter in law has a health challenge. So they really felt you know, a strong need to do that. And then I have my middle son, and his partner who are on the other side of the fence, and they will not get vaccine, they won’t have the vaccine, they won’t they’re, I don’t want to say anymore, because my son’s very private, but so there’s that and now the two of them are divided over that, because my middle son, who won’t get vaccine, my eldest son feels like he shouldn’t be around the family without being vaccine. And then I have a younger son, just three boys, three, three adult sons. And he’s so, so logical and so rational and always kind of is able to speak his mind without ever taking aside but he’s still says what he wants to say. And it’s and you know, and then here, mom, kind of like, I love all of you.

Rick Archer: It’s interesting. Yeah, it’s, it’s, I commend you for that. It’s, it’s a beautiful value to be able to have such an all in embracing awareness and heart that you could just sort of take them all into your arms and not judge them. I mean, Christ is a good example of that.

Irma Francis: Yeah, absolutely.

Rick Archer: It doesn’t mean Christ liked what everyone was doing, but he just loved them nonetheless. Okay, we’re going to continue along here. You one of your points you sent me was what brought you to BatGap and why you want to share your story.

Irma Francis: Yeah, well, I just find it so interesting. Well, you know, the what I shared with you over email about it, tell people I don’t know if I should bring that up or not. I had watched a couple interviews a couple of your interviews and as I shared your your style of interviewing, it’s just you’re so inquisitive and so humble. And, you know, in what I’ve watched so far, so far, I gain just as much from what you’re sharing as your guests so, and I just want to thank you, Rick for the the work work that you and Irene are doing. It’s unbelievably touching to me, based on you know how long I’ve been on this spiritual journey. And it’s like, Wow, they’re so dedicated to their work. It’s just

Rick Archer: doesn’t feel like work really?

Irma Francis: I’m sure, sure. But yeah, so I had watched a couple interviews, and

Rick Archer: he says it does to her. I get to do the fun stuff. Sure, all this Monday and administrative stuff.

Irma Francis: She sounds very supportive, which is. So I was just relaxing.

Rick Archer: She gets to pick the guests. That’s, that’s not too mundane, because she has this really good intuition. Oh, like she liked you right away.

Irma Francis: Oh, I felt a connection with Irene as well, I hope we actually get to chat someday, that would be really, really lovely. So I was sitting relaxed at home, and you know, no TV kind of just in a peaceful place. And I saw you interviewing me, it was like a holographic vision, my eyes were not closed, it was just there. And I’m like, and I never would have thought to be a guest at all. I’ve never, it wasn’t on my radar screen. So I kind of just put that out of my head. And it was either the next day or the following day. I was guided to go to bat gap. And again, I saw this interview happening as if it had already happened.

Rick Archer: Did I have on this turtleneck?

Irma Francis: I don’t know what color fabric that would have been interesting. I should pay closer attention. So I you know, when on BatGap and kind of started looking around, I’m like, Oh, that’s interesting. People can apply to be guests. And I kind of just was following following. And so I applied, and I just totally put it out of my head. And I’m not sure it seemed like two days, it could have been longer. But it was pretty quickly that I got an invitation from Irene in my email. And that’s part of part of why I’m here I just followed and listen, like I’ve been doing kind of my whole life. And that’s what happened.

Rick Archer: And that’s great. glad you did. And that vision is another example of that. I mean, it’s a Sanskrit word, the rhythm bar Praga thing. I mean, we might just call it really good intuition. But um, it’s intuition can be so refined or fundamental that it kind of a lie. It could even be a product foretelling of future events, kind of a thing one can see. You may have had other Have you had that other times in your life where you flashed on something that ended up coming to pass

Irma Francis: many times

Rick Archer: Oh Really? Would it be worthwhile telling you a few examples?

Irma Francis: I can just this is a silly small example. And there’s been many, many. One night I was just laying in bed, and I felt a text from my middle son kind of coming through the ethers and landing in my cell phone. And there was your cell phone. Yeah. But I mean, that’s just a little example. But yeah, and actually, honestly, I toned down a lot of that strong intuition, probably leaning into actually being having psychic experiences. I toned it down. It was really, really strong when I was younger, but I toned it down because I really didn’t know what to do with it.

Rick Archer: Was it distracting or upsetting? Or?

Irma Francis: Um, well, I was kind of alone in it. So and I didn’t know, you know,

Rick Archer: food chain where you’d walk through Walmart and you’d kind of get whole information downloads on people that you’d walk past. Oh, no doubt,

Irma Francis: no doubt and no doubt eventually, as my life unfolded. I learned how to read the Akashic records and kind of realize that I I had been doing that not knowing that’s what I was doing. And still to this day, I have to actually kind of mentally keep that

Rick Archer: door closed. What would happen if you let it be open?

Irma Francis: I’ll see. I’ll see into a person’s. So energy, I’ll see I’ll see the story of them.

Rick Archer: So do you feel like invasive or something?

Irma Francis: Yeah, I think it I think it is. I think it is.

Rick Archer: Like Superman wouldn’t use his X ray vision to see women naked or something.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah, I think it is a kind of intrusion. Yeah, I do.

Rick Archer: But can you turn it on when you want to? Like if there’s a particular circumstance where it would really help the person?

Irma Francis: Yeah. Or if somebody that knows me, were to ask, can we kind of go into what I have done? It’s, yeah, it’s never has never gone wrong. There’s a lot of healing that can come up in happen in that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, does it interest you or have you ever considered doing that kind of thing, semi professionally, where you, you know, you have a have clients, and you talk to him for an hour and you let your that you let that ability just turn on full blast, and you just really tune into them and give them all kinds of useful feedback.

Irma Francis: I haven’t gone that route. I actually used to teach people how to read the Akashic records. And what I realized in that teaching, that people were at so many different levels of understanding that it was really hard, really hard to teach because of that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. You can’t just teach a level of consciousness just like that. Right? You can impart information, but you can’t just so.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. And so many things I haven’t. It’s really hard. I think, being, you know, in the spiritual arena, I I have a really hard time thinking of creating a business of some kind. It just ain’t no, it doesn’t. Yes. And online with me, I guess.

Rick Archer: Well, I trust your intuition on that. I mean, and if you said that you’d fit you wanted to do it, I’d trust that, because it really does seem that you have you’re following a reliable inner guidance, and it served you well, all your life. And so I wouldn’t dream of trying to convince you to do something different.

Irma Francis: Yeah. Oh, of course, man. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s just interesting. So back to what, you know, what called me here, besides the the vision and everything I just shared. You just had. Your last guess was Mr. Branton? Yes. Spiritual mergency. I mean, what beautiful work she’s doing. Yeah, that’s, that’s just beautiful. And it really touched me because a big part of my life experience, I have felt alone in these understandings and these awareness, eventually, I would say, in the past 10 years, people started showing up, mentors started showing up and things started kind of falling together. So I’ve made some wonderful, solid connections. But up until then, yeah, just really felt alone in, in what I was experiencing, and really couldn’t find a community that I really had a strong connection to.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah. Emma uses the terms. And she’s borrowing from Stanislav Grof. But um, you know, spiritual emergency and spiritual emergence. And in your case, I would say it’s an example of spiritual emergence where, you know, you, you had the stability and the maturity to handle it well, but some people have awakenings. And there’s just a lot of housekeeping that it would have been better had had they done that first. And since they hadn’t, they’re terrified or they’re thrown into some kind of psychotic state or they’re just not ready for the voltage, you know, to flow through the wires. I don’t know. Have you ever, you can’t really relate to the term emergency in your case. Can you tell it’s been pretty? You’ve taken it in stride.

Irma Francis: Pretty much pretty much although it it does sometimes feel like a lonely path.

Rick Archer: Yeah, can be lonely for sure. Now, you mentioned Yogananda and you said, You’ve had holographic and telepathic encounters with Yogananda. And when I hear an experience like yours, young child, all sudden having a big spiritual awakening, I think past lives had undergone some development. And now it’s time to carry on.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, again, so much of this I, I haven’t shared with, with too many people.

Rick Archer: That’s the time.

Irma Francis: And you know, I’m usually the listener, not the one talking. So this is a very unusual experience for me. I’ve known from that first, experience at eight sound odd even to say out loud, that this very possibly could be my last lifetime.

Rick Archer: That came through even then. Mm hmm. Yeah,

Irma Francis: yeah. And so that’s why it’s, you know, such a strong passion for me. It’s this understanding of, you know, what it takes to rejoin become one with God and not return. And that’s what I’ve known. And so that kind of, you know, does intensify everything, like, oh, I, I won’t get to experience this again, in human form, you know, the the senses and the experience of, you know, the human experience,

Rick Archer: you have a preference.

Irma Francis: As far as what

Rick Archer: would you like this to be your last lifetime? Or, or not? Or do you want to just kind of do kind of put it in God’s hands and say, Thy will be done, whatever, whatever is best.

Irma Francis: I feel like, I need to do the work in this lifetime that I need to do. It’s not that I wouldn’t. I love life and love life. It’s not that I you know, wouldn’t want to return I just know that. I don’t think I will

Rick Archer: tell you, you may be right. In my case, I used to not want to, and now it’s, it’s sort of like, I have no idea. Probably, I will return and but I sort of feel like there will be some kind of higher guidance or something that’ll work it out. And I’m happy to do whatever, in service to the greatest good, you know?

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, what you’ve shared about your experience that, you know, you were kind of going in one direction and had this kind of understanding and awakening, it’s like, well, if I keep going in this directions, not going to go well, no. And then you, you know, you turned in the direction of meditation and how your life unfolded. From there. I mean, to me, that is such a great example of how we can choose you, you changed your fate into a different destiny that you have become, I just, I just think it’s such a beautiful example for people to have.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, some people argue that we don’t have freewill. And my feeling is that, you know, we don’t have absolute free will, in any moment to do anything. But we have a certain amount of wiggle room, you know, a certain window within which we can operate. And we can either push it this way or push it that way. You know, I mean, if a person you don’t suddenly become a world class tennis player, but if you use your freewill to apply yourself and practice and, and assuming you have the physical aptitude to do it, you can, you know, move in the direction of becoming a champion. On the other hand, if you want to go out partying and goofing around and not practice very much, you’re not going to become a champion.

Irma Francis: Right? Right. And it’s like you you consciously chose, you consciously chose your direction and then dedicated yourself to it.

Rick Archer: It was, yeah, it was kind of an intuitive thing. It wasn’t like, I mean, I, you know, been a crazy guy in many ways, all these years of going through this and that and, you know, I learned to meditate and then I was a drummer in a rock band and doing this and doing that, but I There was always once I had that kind of realization that there is such a thing as higher consciousness, I could never forget it. And, and also, I enjoyed meditation so much, it was just always so blissful. And that it didn’t take a lot of discipline, which I didn’t have a lot of to begin with. But it didn’t take a lot of discipline to just do it regularly. And I was just very self reinforcing. Mm hmm. So what do you think your connection with Yogananda might be? You know,

Irma Francis: I’m not real sure it keeps unfolding. I’m

Rick Archer: think you might have been one of his students back in the 1930s, or something like that?

Irma Francis: Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know. My first meeting with Yogananda. How old was I probably early 20s. Maybe. I was at one of my sister’s house. And in her bathroom. In her magazine book stand. There was an Autobiography of a Yogi and Yogananda his picture on the front. And I saw that picture. And I don’t know what happened. I I’ll try to explain what happened. I just, it’s like, I recognized him. I knew him i i knew. And it’s like looking into his eyes. Even from this flat book cover. It was like I was seeing into the universe. And I just that was actually probably the first time that I felt like if he was alive today, somebody might get me. might understand,

Rick Archer: he would get you.

Irma Francis: Yeah, so I mean, it really was this odd feeling of of not odd. It was a feeling of love. Just a feeling of love and connection. And I know you That’s my

Rick Archer: you did mention in your notes, past life experiences and how they related to your current life, but I guess they weren’t past Yogananda life experiences just other types of things.

Irma Francis: Yeah. I’ve never seen a past life with Yogananda.

Rick Archer: What other types of past life experiences?

Irma Francis: You know, I was thinking about this, reflecting on this interview today. And I’ve had ongoing past life experiences. But as I was reflecting on it, I’m wondering if they are past lives, or am I picking up in some kind of medium ship way? Because each of these experiences, I’ve shown how the person died? In each experience, so

Rick Archer: they feel like it might not have been you might just been somebody else’s experience.

Irma Francis: I always thought that these were past life experiences. It’s possible that it’s a medium ship of some kind. I’m not, I’m not sure. Could be. Yeah.

Rick Archer: I mean, let’s say somebody got hit by a car or they drowned or something. Do you feel some sort of emotional or energetic reaction when you witness that experience? Like, you’re going through it yourself in a way?

Irma Francis: You mean, just in life in general,

Rick Archer: No, when you have these when you have had these things? May or may not be patlak past life experiences?

Irma Francis: No, I know everything that the person is that I’m having. vision of our being shown their life story and how they died. I feel everything that they’re

Rick Archer: feeling. Yeah. Well, if it if it whether it was or wasn’t you, it seems to me there would be some purpose and you’re having these experiences. Like if it was you, you’re working out some deep impression, or if it wasn’t you, you’re helping somebody else work something out. Otherwise, why would you have these

Irma Francis: things? Oh, sure. No doubt. There’s the I don’t doubt the experiences at all, and that there’s a reason for them. I’m just not 100% Sure. That if, yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah. And some people you know, the whole idea of reincarnation, they don’t feel that the Buddhists in that seem to feel this though. feel that’s the very same Jeeva going from life to life. But it’s more like somehow, we come into a life and take a bucket full of karma out of the ocean of karma or something and then live it I don’t understand how that would work that way. I tend to think of it more as a particular soul stepping along, progressing to higher and higher levels of embodiment of the Divine. I think Yogananda saw it that way. And that tends to be more of the Hindu perspective.

Irma Francis: Yeah. And you know, there are times where these experiences they seem to happen. And all of my experiences seem to happen when I just get in a very relaxed state. And I think I shared somewhere. One night, I was watching a music award show, and Kenny G was playing. And he hit this one note. And when he hit this note, I became one with the note. And that opened a portal to this experience of seeing this very muscular man with this torn shirt, bare feet, running through this dark passageway. And he was being chased by a mom that they were going to kill him because he was being accused of murdering somebody. And I, I was, I felt like I was this man. And I could feel his feet hitting the ground and the puddles, I could feel his heart beating, I could feel all the veins, the route is, is being I felt everything. And and then it went from that back to sitting on the sofa. And there’s, there’s, I mean, yeah,

Rick Archer: I mean, who knows, but, you know, my way of unders to my understanding, you know, when we say that, we have a lot of deep conditioning and impressions and all and we have to work them out. They’re not just from this lifetime. So I wouldn’t have any trouble believing that that was you that must give the man and that, who knows the mob may have killed you, or maybe you got away. But in any case, it was a kind of an intense experience that would have created a deep impression. Maybe you did, maybe you did get killed by the mob, and then you died. And then you were left with that deep impression, and it had has to be worked out sometime.

Irma Francis: Well, yeah. And the connection that I made to that I would have very strong before this experience, I would have very strong reactions to being falsely accused. And, you know, I kind of made that connection to this this man, if it was me in another life being falsely accused. And after that experience, it seemed to go away.

Rick Archer: Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there’s an interesting mechanics to that, in itself. I mean, aside from any past life considerations, but you know, it’s these impressions that we store kind of conditioned us to, to react or behave in ways, which we wouldn’t if we were free of them, if we were a clean slate, then we would operate I think a lot more the way you tend to operate, which is just spontaneously intuitively, you know, in in accordance with the circumstance rather than some, you know, conditioned response to things.

Irma Francis: Yeah. Yeah. And that is, you know, some of the things that can come up in a, in an Akashic Records reading is, you know, being shown with this person needs to be shown from from a past life to create a healing in this life.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, since you brought that up several times, let’s talk a little bit more about that. I interviewed a woman named Gabrielle or who teaches Akashic Records reading, and I heard some feedback from people that Some said they did well with it, others said and tried to, couldn’t do it wasn’t for me. And you, you said something like that to that people have mixed degrees of success according to their receptivity or ability. But how did you initially stumble upon that ability? And what what are some examples of I mean, maybe you should even define Akashic records because who knows some maybe some people here won’t know what we mean by that term.

Irma Francis: Well, my understanding it’s the energy of our soul from when it first left source and however many lifetimes that it’s had in between.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And it’s not just our soul is it? Aren’t the Akashic records like this ocean of information of everything that ever happened and it could be tapped into and you know, various things could be learned, like, if we really wanted to know what, whether there was an adult I had this and what happened to it? And we could actually tap in and discover that.

Irma Francis: Yes. Yes. And and you know, like with so many other things. I think it’s I think it’s a natural thing that we have the ability to do. I think it’s natural in all of us. A lot of these things get kind of conditioned out of us, or kind of don’t in some way, but I think everybody can easily do that. Easily. Well, it seems like it’s a natural thing. Natural. It does.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think everybody can naturally levitate. But the ability to do that is, has been pretty far, far off for for most people, because they just haven’t reached a level of development in which that could happen. Yeah, perhaps the world hasn’t reached a level at which such things are going to be commonplace. Obviously, it hasn’t.

Irma Francis: Yeah, I guess I have a tendency to believe that we’re kind of all born with this, you know, connection and abilities, and it gets conditioned out of us? I mean, I don’t know that for certain, there’s no way I can know that.

Rick Archer: No, I agree. But I think most people are much more occluded than you were. And, you know, they just, I mean, obviously, that’s what happens is most people don’t have the experiences, like the kind you had there, they’re more more heavily conditioned. So they don’t have those glimpses and breakthroughs. But I think everyone has that same, you know, source of pure consciousness at their core, and everyone has the potential to have the realization of it, it’s just that, you know, people are, they realize that potential to varying degrees, like the Bible says, you know, some through a glass darkly, and others more clear. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So the whole name of the game is to culture the, the ability to for it to be clear.

Irma Francis: Right? Right. You know, there was a time in my life, where I kind of was shocked to realize that not everybody wants to do this. Not everybody wants to wake up, in a sense, are re re awake, to their, their true self, their soul.

Rick Archer: I think that’s true, too. But getting to the point of wanting to is also a certain is a is a milestone in a person’s evolution. I think, ultimately, fundamentally, everyone does want to, but that desire doesn’t get manifested or articulated. And in the mind, until a certain stage of your progress, don’t you think? I mean, some people might think what life is all about, you know, Bitcoin, or, you know, getting fancy cars, or, you know, beautiful house or, you know, whatever, all the things that people chase after hoping to find happiness. And, you know, you have to sort of go through a lot that seems before you realize, you know, these things as nice as they may be, they’re not really doing it for me, they don’t provide anything as deep or as abiding, as I really do want. To do too much talking here.

Irma Francis: No, no, I get it says no, it’s, it’s, um, it’s a puzzle. It’s a puzzle, for sure. And, you know, it definitely has been a lifetime of me trying to figure out how to navigate life, you know, in a balanced way of kind of connecting the formless with the form, and the dance of that and trying to understand, and it’s taken me a long, long time.

Rick Archer: Seems like you connect it pretty well. I think maybe you’re saying that. You don’t understand why others don’t connect it as well. I mean, why isn’t Vladimir Putin sitting in Lotus right now? Doing his mantra rather than invading Ukraine? Right. What does he think he’s gonna get out of that?

Irma Francis: Well, I mean, you know, of course, I don’t know the answer to that. But it seems to me when somebody goes that far off. There’s been major wounding major.

Rick Archer: You mean? Yeah. Yeah, right. And with that major wounding comes major blindness, you know, as Jesus said, Forgive them father, they know not what they do. So they’re oblivious to the fact that they’re, in most cases that they’re so far off the mark.

Irma Francis: Yeah. Because the wound is is so deep that they totally lost a connection to any true self.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I was just think it was Yogananda his book, I was just, I recently interviewed Phil Goldberg, who wrote a nice biography of Yogananda, old friend of mine, but sometimes something I was reminded him, but he was just saying that, you know, as lost as you might get, you can never get so lost, that you can, that you’ll never be able to sort of come back and discover your or rediscover your true nature. The tie can ever be ultimately, ultimately severed.

Irma Francis: Wow. Yeah, and, you know, throughout my life at different times, I’ve known some really, really, you know, very, very depressed people. And they have told me that they it got so dark. And so they were so depressed, that all that was left was one little spark, one little spark of light. But that spark was there. Yeah, eventually things, you know, because that spark was still there started turning around and, you know, getting bigger and bigger and bigger and things change for?

Rick Archer: Yeah. And what would your thoughts be about? Why we play this game? You know, why this hide and seek? Why? Why do people get so lost? Why are there these cycles of, of delusion? And then coming out of delusion? It must serve a purpose.

Irma Francis: Yeah, of course, I don’t know. You know, for sure. My perspective on it is, if you lose that connection to your true self. If you aren’t able to kind of connect to your higher self, and from that higher self to the source of all that is, then you believe that there’s something in the external world that you need to do be get to, to make yourself feel, make yourself feel complete. And so looking in the wrong place, not knowing that it’s, it’s within you

Rick Archer: looking for love in all the wrong places? Yeah.

Irma Francis: Yeah. And I mean, you know, there’s so many things, there’s so many things in so many reasons. I know the importance of meeting someone and getting to know someone that can mirror back to you, that unconditional love and then it kind of ignites within the other person.

Rick Archer: Yeah. You mentioned something about having had a mentor or still having one or something. Do you want to say who that was? Or if not, then at least what was was that all about? Who defined?

Irma Francis: Well, eventually, I took a course spiritual coaching intensive with Bill Epperly. He’s, uh, he’s out there. He’s actually on the board of it’s called sacred ground in Chicago. It’s a wonderful connection for people if they’re looking for spiritual direction and programs and meditation groups. It’s a great place that maybe a lot of people aren’t aware of. Sacred Ground.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I’m only vaguely I wasn’t aware of that at all. But the the name Bill Epperly rings a bell?

Irma Francis: Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, he became a mentor of sorts. I took this spiritual coaching intensive with him. And it was based on Ken Wilbers integral. Yeah, and I so needed that I so needed that piece too. You know, the integration of the absolute with the relative I, I needed that and so that was Gosh, maybe six years or so ago, and we we’ve stayed connected all this time. And then I came across this podcast called The souls intent. And it was the person, the host of that was Ernie vecino, who was a trauma psychologist. And he wrote this book called The souls intent based on his trauma patients and what he saw kind of coming out through their trauma, that the soul has an intent and and he would see this, and he eventually wrote a book about it started doing podcasts about it, I connected with him. And he kind of shifted from that into psycho spiritual teachings. And we just had a strong connection. And I would say, for years, we would spend hours and hours in conversation, because I just, it was like, I was soaking all of this up, like, you know, understanding why humans suffer, and what is that the human condition and the, the psychological piece of that. So it was like, you know, these mentors would come along and add these different understandings to give me a clearer sense of wholeness. It just, I just was blessed by that. Just really blessed by man.

Rick Archer: That’s great. And, you know, once a while I’ve today you’ve, you’ve said you Well, I don’t know for sure. But I just want to add that, you know, if I sometimes sound certain about something, I really should add that proviso because I’m just not hemming and hawing and adding a whole lot of extra words to what I’m saying, but I’m not. I’m not insisting when I make some comment about reincarnation or something that that’s the way it is, you know,

Irma Francis: sure, sure. Of course, it’s of course, you know, sometimes I’ll find myself. And I try and catch myself when I do as well. Most people feel this, and most people think, How do I know that? I know what I don’t know. Know what most people think or feel, I only know my experience? And

Rick Archer: that’s it? Yeah. I mean, I like to treat all such all ideas as hypotheses. And that means that, you know, they’re open for exploration. And we don’t have to treat them all as equally credible or valid. We can accumulate evidence to strengthen certain hypotheses or weaken them if they’re not, if they don’t really hold water. And, you know, but it’s kind of a handy way of looking at it’s kind of a scientific way of looking at spirituality. Is there reincarnation? Are there angels? You know, do we have an immortal soul? All these things? Well, let’s find out. Let’s explore that experientially and see, see if such ideas hold up?

Irma Francis: Yeah. Don’t you think at some point that science and spirituality, don’t they kind of meet?

Rick Archer: Well, they very much do. And that’s a hot topic for me. In fact, you know, since you’re a Yogananda person, kind of, I, two weeks ago, I interviewed Joseph Selby on the physics of God. And we talked a lot about how science and spirituality might dovetail. And I really do I think that they each have something to offer the other. And that they, that they that the other needs. Each is somewhat incomplete. I think, you know, maybe 100 200 years from now we’ll have just sort of one body of one method of gaining knowledge, which incorporates both dimensions.

Irma Francis: Mm hmm. Yeah, that makes total sense to me. It really does.

Rick Archer: Okay, here’s some good things. This is from Nick. Con. You’re in Pennsylvania. What have you go ahead. What?

Irma Francis: Hi, Nick. I know Nick.

Rick Archer: Oh, you don’t?

Irma Francis: Yeah,

Rick Archer: small world. Nick asks, What have you found helpful, living as both a soul and a human, particularly when life is challenging,

Irma Francis: most helpful? I think because of that experience at a young age and ongoing experiences, it helps me stay in a place of allowing a real mindfulness allowing and being very open. So there’s not not a resistance or a attachment or holding on. It’s it’s this open allowing unfolding. And it works. Really well. It

Rick Archer: helps you deal with challenging situations. Yeah. Yeah, a lot. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that’s kind of what I was asking you in the beginning of, you know, as a teenager, I mean, a lot of teenagers commit suicide, or they, you know, they get into destructive behaviors, because they’re so besieged by the booming, buzzing confusion, to quote William James have a life and you had this buffer, with this inner awakening that made it so much smoother for

Irma Francis: you. And you know, what would be really, really helpful, I think for sure is, you know, to have somebody in your life that can mirror back to you that connection. Because once it’s mirrored back to you, then it connects in the other person. And even in teenagers. I mean, I haven’t worked with teenagers, other than, you know, my three beautiful sons. And now two beautiful grandsons. The importance of that, the importance of having somebody mirror back that connection,

Rick Archer: I think you’re right. And if I understand what you’re saying, there are a number of spiritual traditions that put place great emphasis on the importance of the company, you keep, you know, being able to be around like minded people, if you’re a spiritual aspirant, it’s, it’s said to be, you know, just a really powerful aid to your advancement.

Irma Francis: Oh, yeah. And just Just think of all the children that for whatever reason, you know, not only do they not get that unconditional love and a connection from their parents that they have mirrored back to them. But they, they aren’t seen and heard as something unique, someone unique, and you know, to have that flower and, and unfold. It’s not easy if you don’t have those those people around you? Not at all.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Imagine if our school systems could teach meditation or, you know, related types of things. Some of them do, actually, in very isolated cases, but and there’s some wonderful programs, cavalry Morgan, whom I’ve interviewed does that in Oregon, and so on, teaching mindfulness to kids with she has a whole documentary about it that, you know, it’s amazing, the value kids get out of that. Mm hmm. But if we all had grown up through a school system that, you know, valued that and emphasize that seems to me, we’d have a different society.

Irma Francis: Oh, for sure. For sure. An absolute different society, because who knows what has gone on tapped because a child wasn’t seen for the gifts and the uniqueness that was inside of them?

Rick Archer: Absolutely. Here’s a question from Cheryl folds in Panama City Beach, Florida. Have you ever felt critical of yourself or divided internally? Divided? Yeah, like inner conflict are kind of some eras are difficult to reconcile or resolve, you know, tug of war going on in yourself. You’re having such a hard time answering answers.

Irma Francis: I don’t I don’t. I don’t think so. I mean, there’s times you know, that that I have doubt and I don’t think I criticize myself. And I don’t think I feel felt divided.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, you know, some people feel like, Oh, I’m no good. I’m a jerk. I talk too much during interviews, then I’ll never amount to anything, you know, they’d beat up on themselves. And you think maybe she’s getting a lot of people suffered depression in the United States, they’re, you know, half the population is on some kind of medication for it. So, an or some kind of thing to modify their, their mental state. You know, so that kind of thing. But you know, what,

Irma Francis: as I’m thinking about that, though, there were many years that I would go into therapy, trying to figure out why I wasn’t the same as everybody else. Oh, yeah.

Rick Archer: Oh, yeah. Did you meet any therapists who got you

Irma Francis: Actually, what would happen is, you know, I’d go in there with all these questions. And at some point, I would start talking about these spiritual things. And they would become so interested in that we usually would end up being friends. I don’t think I ever got any kind of true therapy. And they would say, well, there’s nothing wrong with you. In fact, you’re pretty grounded and balanced. And I’m like, but there’s got to be because I’m not like everybody else. And so I kept going back and trying, and it’s like, well, sorry to tell you.

Rick Archer: That’s sort of an example of being critical of yourself. Yeah. Trying to say something wrong with me, you know?

Irma Francis: Well, I wanted to under I wanted to understand, I wanted to understand, you know, these experiences that I was having, I wanted to understand, is this normal? Yeah. So I guess that would be

Rick Archer: there must have come a time when you finally just resolved it. You just settled in and realize that something good had happened and you’re living a blessed life and you no longer cared if you were kind of different than most people? Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That probably just decades ago. And at that point,

Irma Francis: I eventually I eventually got there. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay, here’s a question from Eman Acosta in Missouri. Erma mentioned earlier that following her inner guidance or intuition was crucial in her life, I tend to struggle a lot when it comes to being in tune with my intuition, especially when making a decision. What is the best way to differentiate the voice of the ego? From intuition? Good question.

Irma Francis: Hmm. I think ego usually comes with doubt of some kind of intuition. I think intuition is more it’s more felt. It’s a felt experience versus a thinking experience. I don’t know if that makes sense. Not

Rick Archer: verbalize thoughts of Shall I do this, or shall I do that? And it’s not it’s not the voice in the head. It’s more of a feeling level thing.

Irma Francis: a felt sense.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Good. Yeah. And have you ever doubted those? Did you ever have a thing where your thinking mind your discursive mind started to question the deeper feeling level that was prompting you to move in a certain way?

Irma Francis: Most of the time, I trust it.

Rick Archer: That’s great.

Irma Francis: Yeah.

Rick Archer: And you probably it’s probably earned your trust.

Irma Francis: Yeah, send it is it? That’s interesting how you send that because it is a kind of relationship? Mm hmm. Communication? Mm hmm.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I guess my version of that is, there’s some of that. But there’s also a kind of a trusting of the way circumstances unfold in the world. It’s like, in at least the world as I interact with it, there’s kind of a feeling like there’s always well and wisely put, and if things happen this way, or it happened that way, I think, Okay, that’s interesting that there must be, this must be the way things are supposed to unfold, because it’s the way they are. And so I’ll just kind of roll accordingly, you know, with this. Yeah.

Irma Francis: Yes. And there is that there’s a resonance and energy of vibration. I think, when you’re going to Ward’s your intuition. For example, you know, that vision of this interview happening, I think, that came from kind of being on the same resonance or vibration or kind of an energy wave. I don’t, and to me the same as what, like, like to trust your intuition. How do you know to trust it? It’s it that felt sense. It’s like tapping into a resonance when something resonates. It means go in that direction. Yeah, go in that direction.

Rick Archer: Good. I think people understand that. And I think there’s a sort of a underlying supposition to what we’re saying here, which is that the universe is not just dumb stuff. There’s kind of intelligence permeating and orchestrating everything, and the more attuned to and one with that intelligence we become the The more our desires and its desires, if we want to call it an id are, are aligned. And therefore we can trust them because there’s, there’s an intelligence much faster than our own that knows best. And we it’s like a guiding hand or something that we can rely upon.

Irma Francis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay, here’s

Rick Archer: one from a bill Epperly, who was just talking. I’m curious if he has ever tried to help others into a realization such as hers.

Irma Francis: I don’t think that can be done. No. Oh, what

Rick Archer: did Bill Epperly do or what does? What did Yogananda do? Or Ramana? Maharshi? Weren’t they trying to help others into a relationship realization such as theirs?

Irma Francis: I think the way I look at it and live it is as things unfold, if somebody crosses my path, and it’s meant to happen in that interaction, then it naturally unfolds. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you’re not

Rick Archer: up on a soapbox. In other words, but, you know, if the circumstances are such that you’re interacting with somebody, maybe you can help them.

Irma Francis: Let’s see. I think I get hung up on the word help. And, and, and I think I get hung up on the word, MI, see?

Rick Archer: Both good, good hang ups there.

Irma Francis: I’m serious. Because the way I experience life, it’s a trusting and an unfolding. And if something’s meant to happen, there’s a destiny almost between that interaction and it just, and I, I see everything that way.

Rick Archer: Right. Yeah, I think that makes that makes total sense. That’s what I was kind of saying about the intelligence orchestrating everything and your oneness with that. And, and that you’re just, you could say, I mean, you might say you’re an instrument of the Divine. And so it’s not you doing it. It’s just, you’re serving a function.

Irma Francis: Yes, I’m an instrument of the Divine. And so is everybody else. Yes. And so, you know, I have had many experiences, being with other people and way, where they’ve told me, it’s like, okay, I came here, and I met you for coffee, and we’re chatting. And all of a sudden, now I’m in a different place. I’m like, there’s the world out there. And there’s this and they’re not the same. And I’ve seen it I you can, I can see it like happening within the person. It’s it’s very, very cool experience. It’s like shifting into this dimension, the soul dimension, where there, it’s very cool. entrainment is the word that is the word.

Rick Archer: And, you know, you were talking earlier about education and kids, having someone who could mirror back to them and so on. I think that, you know, awakened people. It’s not like there’s zapping people transmitting something from A to B, it’s more like they helped to facilitate or enliven or hold a field in which like, tuning forks, in which the, you know, the one tuning fork can get the other going at the same frequency if that tuning fork is receptive, or, you know, to use the analogy. Yeah, and that’s the way Ramana Maharshi. And a lot of these teachers taught, they basically just sat there and marinated in being and others in their field, rose to their level to whatever extent they were able,

Irma Francis: yeah, I so get that. And I just wonder, though, if possibly, sometimes people can become dependent on that, not know, like, they they leave, you know, the presence of, of this person that’s making this transmission and then they don’t feel the same and like, they don’t have the same feeling. And, and so they have to go back and kind of get another fix or something to feel that again, and not knowing how to generate it on their own.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, from my own experience, you know, I’ve had this regular Meditation practice all these years. But you know, I’ve enjoyed visiting saints from time to time, my wife and I saw armor quite a bit over a couple of decades. And you definitely have an uplifted kind of experience when you’re in her presence. And when you go home after a while, it seems to wear off. But I think it’s, it’s kind of like transformative every time you have any experience like that, like even the one you had, when you’re eight years old, something shifts, and you get used to it after a while you integrate it, but still, and so it doesn’t seem contrasting, but still a shift has occurred to whatever extent and such shifts are cumulative. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And plus any teacher worth his salt will at some point, if he sees people dependent upon him, kind of like, you know, go, you know, go go away for a while. You need to sort of be able to live this on your own because I’m not going to be here forever. Yeah. There’s a nice comment. This is from Dara crawl in. Yo girl, county, Cork, Ireland. No, no question. That was an Irish accent as a lame attempt. It’s no question. I just want to say a really great guest and a really lovely energy. Thank you both.

Irma Francis: Sweet.

Rick Archer: Yeah, thank you their next one nice. John P in Illinois.

Irma Francis: Hi, John. I know John is.

Rick Archer: And you’re in Illinois to hurt John wants to say or ask. I’m speaking of mirroring, ask Carmen to talk about the couch event

Irma Francis: Oh. Myself. It’s so that honestly, this is true. I just have that in my head to spring it Yes. John is a good friend of mine for many, many years now. We became friends and it up until that point, I had not shared my complete eight year old experience with anyone. And you know, we became friends. And one night we were listening to native American music and had a candle going. And there was this shift, where everything became one. Everything became one. And I actually ended up writing a little bit about it after John

Rick Archer: was there, too. This is like you and John. Yeah, okay.

Irma Francis: Yeah. And at one point, we were looking at each other, and there just was this, everything became one for both of you. Yeah. He shared it as well. And it was after that, that I thought, I think possibly he might understand if I shared this experience and ongoing experiences that I had. And he did. And John and I have gone on to share some something happens when we get together. There’s just a shift, we shift and go into these other dimensions, and it just naturally happens.

Rick Archer: Nice. Remote thing Jesus said, Whenever two or more of you are to get are gathered in my name there, there I will be or some such thing. There’s a there’s a kind of an exponential reinforcement effect when groups of coherent people get together.

Irma Francis: Yes, yes. And John has done, you know, a lot of spiritual work. And he’s very disciplined in that in his life. We had this one experience where we had had, we had lunch together, and then we decided to go to this other place to have tea. And we’re just at this high kind of joyful energy and we walked into this place to have tea and we sat down, and John turned his head, and he looked kind of out into where people were getting their tea and coffee and walking around. He looked out and then he looked back at me, and I reached over took his hands and I said, I know I know cuz I did. And what I knew was we had somehow shifted into this dimension where everything we were experiencing in that moment. It’s so hard to explain it was like this perfection of everything, kind of an experience of Heaven on Earth where everything was in perfect harmony. And this has happened so many times with John, where I, we had, we’re reshift in these into these other dimensions. And I call it kind of shifting into the place of soul, and one of our last experiences. And I’ve never sought out a teacher, but I certainly would like somebody to help me with this one. We were in my home, he was on oneself, I was in on another sofa. And we thought we fell asleep. And there. We had this experience, we both had the same experience where a terror to describe, we were in a place where there was nothing, but we were aware that we were there. But it wasn’t, there wasn’t a sense of I. And this nothingness went on, there were no boundaries. And it just was perfect piece. And then we both came back and looked at each other. And he said what he had experienced, and I had been to that same place. And we both had this feeling coming back of I don’t I don’t want to go back. I don’t want to

Rick Archer: come back to this. You mean to the form to

Irma Francis: write? Yeah, yeah. And as we, as I do, when experiences like this happened, I started researching what is that the closest I’ve come to possibly pointing to something is something called TURia. Sure, and I and I don’t know if that was Turia or not, but I do know that it never left, right. Didn’t ever lie,

Rick Archer: to remains fourth, and waking, dreaming and sleeping being the first three states of consciousness and Korea is like a fourth state, which underlies the three. And so, and you spoke earlier about integrating absolute and relative, so to RIA would be, you know, dipping into that absolute level, or, you know, which, you know, the experience of which they call Samadhi. And, basically, you know, you can’t sit in Samadhi forever, you do have to integrate it. And you know, so you come back, but alternating experiences like that with activity back and forth, back and forth, tends to integrate the two. So it’s not going to be an either or situation, you can maintain that absolute silence in the midst of dynamic activity.

Irma Francis: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I do feel puzzled by How can two people have an experience like them the same time that that I don’t really understand at all? Well, again, entrainment,

Rick Archer: I mean, there’s your both of us have a mindset or have a state of development where you can easily slip into a state like that. And, you know, perhaps just the togetherness of the two of you made it more likely that you you would both slip into it together, even perhaps more likely than if you were one or the other viewer alone. That’d be my explanation. I mean, I’ve been in groups of 8000 people meditating together. And, boy, the, the influence of that many people even though not everybody was sort of a state, like you are but so many people doing such a thing in one place, just as a palpable effect. I mean, atmosphere is just stick with some kind of bliss or coherence. Makes it very conducive. Just close your eyes and be gone.

Irma Francis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Based on what you said. It just it does. This makes me wonder, like, what we’re capable of? Oh, yeah. Well, we’re capable of I mean, you know, to try and function through life and go through your life. Letting this little small self lead the way versus, you know, connecting to your higher self. And from that, you know, connection to the source of all that is, and what can come through that. I mean, I, I’m so inspired by your program and what you’re bringing people because I think that is what can change this world.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and of course, a lot of people are doing things like this are things in their own way, which are, we’re all on the same team, you know, what you’re doing is, is making a contribution in your way. So I’m just, you know, doing my thing, in a way that suits me and my capabilities. But there are people all over the world doing wonderful things that are hopefully going to Save us from disaster. You know, the phrase heaven on earth, a lot of people like to use that term. I mean, you’ve experienced Heaven is already on Earth. But for it to be kind of really on Earth in terms of the way what’s happening to the environment, and animals and the poor people and sick people and all that stuff, for it to kind of really percolate into the manifest realm. So all of that becomes heavenly, really just needs a lot of people living at a higher, deeper level of consciousness. Yeah, I think, yeah, again, this is one of these statements that I’m stating as a fact. But this is my opinion,

Irma Francis: I think that’s absolutely true. And, and I believe that it’s possible. Yeah, I

Rick Archer: was just gonna say it’s very doable. And, you know, so you know, maybe we don’t want this to be your last lifetime, we might need you to stick around a while.

Irma Francis: Hopefully, hopefully, I pass some things on to my sons and my grandsons, and daughter in law’s and friends. And,

Rick Archer: and you know, it might be a last lifetime on Earth. But it might not, it wouldn’t necessarily mean the end of your existence. Because there are, as you may have experienced when you’re eight years old, and you were zapped by some higher intelligence there, who was that higher intelligence, where, where do they live? You know, what, oh, had they been a human being before? And now they’re operating on that level?

Irma Francis: Yes, that’s true. That’s true. You know, sometimes I think, and I’ve said this to people, and most people that I’ve said this to not most people in the world, but most people I’ve said this to, that don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. But from the awareness of soul, before my life, life, and after life, it’s all the same. It’s not the same. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Oh, you get that? Even. And you get that even during life. I mean, there’s, you don’t have to sort of think past and future to get that because there’s a level of life, which is just a continuum that is unperturbed by the waves on the surface of life. And, and nothing perturbs that well, nothing preserves that continuum to repeat myself. And therefore I see no, I mean, injury doesn’t sickness doesn’t and I don’t see any reason why death would either. Yeah, funny people who have near death experiences who say, No, it doesn’t, you know, being in a coma being under surgery, and yet, I was in this beautiful state. No, doctor say I was unconscious, but I wasn’t. Yeah. Why do I feel higher consciousness gives us access to versions of intelligence and information that we cannot access at lower levels of consciousness. Did we cover that adequately? I said something. I heard something. One of your notes. Yeah.

Irma Francis: Could you repeat that?

Rick Archer: Yeah, I read it kind of fast. Why do I feel a higher consciousness gives us access to versions of intelligence and information that we cannot access at lower levels of consciousness?

Irma Francis: Yeah, yeah. We were just kind of talking about that trying to live life from this small self versus opening up to your higher self. And then a connection to that is because on the, in the awareness of the small self, it’s kind of it is kind of like we’re kind of just passing around information on a certain level of understanding. And there’s this intelligence and wisdom that’s available to us beyond that small self, that we could never access with our small self. Yeah.

Rick Archer: So people compare the human makeup, the brain and nervous system in my as like a radio transmitter receiver, you know. And in that sense, the brain doesn’t create consciousness it intermediates in a way between consciousness and the relative world. And, and like when I was a kid, I put together this little crystal Set Radio. And I used to lie in bed at night listening to New York Yankees games, and it was just this little cheap thing, but it was good enough to hear the game. But obviously, compared to that little contraption, there are, you know, there’s the Hubble Space Telescope, or there’s all kinds of things, we built the, you know, the Arecibo radio Ray receiver in Puerto Rico and other such things that are infinitely more Attuned to subtle and distant fluctuations in the electromagnetic field. So similar, I use that as an analogy to the range of possibility that nervous systems have for tuning into consciousness and then bodying it. I mean, we could start with an amoeba, you know, which actually has some such ability, but pretty small compared to a dog and, and then up to the human level. And then at the human level, such a range, you know, from Jack the Ripper to Ramana, Maharshi. And,

Irma Francis: yeah, yeah, that’s a really good way to describe all of that. And and, yes, that’s so true. I just what we’re capable of just says, amazing to me. Yeah. And the possibilities are endless.

Rick Archer: And that really means endless, because we’re not only talking about inner experience possibilities, but what we could do as a species. If we were all if we all had access to that level of our potential. Now, it could be so different. I mean, you know, people, we tend to sort of feel that the world isn’t gonna ever get radically different the way than the way it is. Now, despite our interest in science fiction, movies and stuff, the people in the 1800s with their horses and buggies, and railroads. They couldn’t have imagined what things would be like today, you know, with jet travel and landing on the moon and the internet and all this stuff. And you know, and everybody says that the pace of the accumulation of knowledge is accelerating. It’s not just, it’s getting faster and faster. So even within our lifetimes, we could see, perhaps, perhaps see changes that are as radical from now as now is from the 1800s.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yes. That would be something to sit and ponder on. And imagine.

Rick Archer: I think Iran is gonna send another question, I was just tuning it up a little bit, and the dogs are starting to have a wrestling match down here. Somewhere, almost like at certain point that there aren’t enough of this interview business we want. So you’re writing a book, right?

Irma Francis: Yes, I had to. I had to kind of connect all the dots.

Rick Archer: And will it be kind of the stuff we’ve been talking about today? But all nicely written out?

Irma Francis: Or? Yes. And a lot more, a lot more detail? Yeah. Yeah. You know, of my experience of kind of seeing life and experiencing life as I have. And the experience of that experience of things being so different people being so different, and what that was like, and yeah,

Rick Archer: you know, just want to throw in the point when you say people being different, I know what you meant by that. But no one should think that if everyone in the world were in some higher level of consciousness, that we’d all be the same. You know, that we’d all wear the same clothes or talk them or act the same, or I think that there needs to be greater variety than it is now. True. True. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have the Amazon rainforest where the ground is so fertile and look at the fecundity and diversity of life forms there. I think it would be kind of like that in the world. With people, cultures being much richer and people’s creativity being so developed and it would just be a much more rich world. I mean, it’s it’s the it’s the lack of our full potential it dampens everything down It makes it kind of dull.

Irma Francis: Yeah, yes. Yes. For sure.

Rick Archer: Okay, here’s a question. This is from Harsha Rao in Granger, Indiana. Would Irma recommend a specific sadhana? If everything is destined, then could we presume that continuing on the path of sun and comes via the help of God? You know, it’s on its right now. Okay, I’ll tell you. If so is there a way to attract that grace or blessing, son, that just means a spiritual practice or a spiritual path like of a person meditates regularly, that that’s a sadhana. Or if they do yoga, that’s a sudden? I don’t know what that Sanskrit translates later. But that’s what it means. So they’re asking, would you recommend a specific spiritual path or practice?

Irma Francis: What I would recommend is to tap in to your own self and ask that question. Because it I think it’s unique to each person.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s a good answer. And she’s saying something about the the help of God or grace of God? And is there a way to attract that grace or blessing? How can one augment or amplify the grace of God in one’s life?

Irma Francis: That’s a good question. Because I do see so many of these experiences that I’ve had as Greece. And I’ve never sought them out. And I and I think that’s why they come. It’s it’s living in and openness and a surrender, and an acceptance that these experiences of grace calm, I think they’re a given. I think they’re a given. I think Grace is always there. We may move away from it, but I think it’s always there. And when you are in a place of surrender, and openness, and allowing an acceptance, it kind of comes together. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And I think to get yourself into a place of openness and allowing an acceptance more some kind of sun that can be helpful. Harsha, obviously is Indian and harshly, you may have heard the term, the means collect around Sautoir. I don’t know what the Sanskrit is equivalent for that is, but that’s the same as the saying. So, you know, the understanding is that if one cultures or cultivates sotware, or purity, then circumstances, the means just sort of collect around you, they, you know, you don’t get up on the wrong side of bed, you don’t have a rain cloud over your head, you know, things just tend to work out more and more, you feel like your life is more and more blessed. So, you know, there are all kinds of spiritual practices. So shop around and you know, see what works, try something if it doesn’t work, try something else. You know, see what resonates with you.

Irma Francis: So when you just said purity rank what what do you mean by that?

Rick Archer: I don’t mean it in a moralistic sense. I mean, it in terms of what we were discussing earlier, I think as the nervous system as an instrument through which life has lived and through which the Divine is left, and we can do things that damage the nervous system or occluded you know, behaviors. substances, we might consume various things which actually increase what they call Thomas TMS, which is a sort of a, an occluding, or a dulling, or clouding influence. And it makes the nervous system less like you say, you’re doing the boundaries thing, it makes it boxes and send more limits us more. Or we can do things which purify the nervous system, which work out some of those deep impressions, as you have experienced working out. And that opens us up more and makes us it makes us more of a you know, high powered radio instead of the little crystal set thing tunes us into the divine more allows us to be more attuned.

Irma Francis: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you know, I think it is, there are so many different practices that one can turn to you, but I think you have to go towards what resonates for you. I don’t know that somebody could tell you what that would be. Although, you know, meditation certainly is a great one, whichever, you know, type of meditation you choose to do because it is meditation. Is that surrender? Yeah, it is that releasing and letting go and allowing and opening up which does calm the nervous system. And you know, for me, it’s, I kind of go about my life and I can feel kind of like, when it’s time to go into that place and release kind of like what I picked up along the way. It’s just another natural allowing kind of way of living that I do. It’s not a, a forced discipline, but even allowing my intuition to say, Okay, it’s time you’ve taken on too much, it’s time. And then

Rick Archer: it’s good, you got to keep it balanced. And, you know, there’s some spiritual teachers who say, take one step toward me, and I’ll take 10 steps toward you. And sometimes that phrase is attributed to God, you know, and Jesus said, seek and you shall find knock, and the door shall be opened. So I, I’ve seen so many examples of where if a person has a sincere desire to realize more deeply the kind of thing we’ve been talking about today, and just makes whatever efforts seem to make sense to them, read this book, you know, listen to that teacher, do this meditation, whatever. And maybe you move from one thing to the next, you know, maybe five years from now, that book seems trivial compared to what you’re interested in now. But if you make the effort and just sort of have your attention on this stuff, it God takes 10 steps. 10 steps toward you, you know, things just unfold, huh?

Irma Francis: Yeah, it that’s just been proven to me, there was one point where I was studying Emma Curtis Hopkins, and I just was drawn to her and her work. And when I started studying it and reading some of her books, it was like, I was reading a foreign language I nothing was sinking in at all. I’m like, I know, this is English, but it’s not. And then a few days went by where I kind of released it and then picked it back up, and I absorbed it like a sponge. I just, I just resonated with that.

Rick Archer: Okay, shall we end with Albert Einstein. Life is like a bicycle to keep your balance, you must keep moving. Got that quote from you that sort of leads to we’ve just been saying, you know, just take one step toward God, and God will take 10 steps toward you just move.

Irma Francis: Yeah, do it. Yeah, that’s true. All right. Well,

Rick Archer: thanks so much. Any more questions? Come on, hurry. Well, no more questions. So this was great. I really loved this conversation with you. And so nice to spend this time and I hope we get to meet in person. We don’t live that far apart. Maybe. If we’re ever if there’s ever end to the pandemic and represent Chicago area that we can get together.

Irma Francis: I would love that. I would absolutely love that. And when my book is complete, I’m definitely sending one your way.

Rick Archer: Great. Thanks. And so, on your website, it has actually your phone number and your email address. Are you ready for the BatGap? Bump? Sure. All right. Megan, little bit deluge. But um, anyway, those are there. And I’ll link to your website from your page on And do you have any kind of like a mailing list signup thing on your website?

Irma Francis: Um, I don’t I probably should,

Rick Archer: should you know, because when you post a new blog post, you can notify people and when your book comes out, you can notify people of that. So you might want to start set that up right away before I put this up.

Irma Francis: Yeah, I will do that. Yeah. Okay, good.

Rick Archer: You can use something like MailChimp, they have a real simple signup form for email lists. Yeah. Alright, so thanks so much, Irma, and thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching and we’ll see you for the next one. If you go to and look at the upcoming interviews page, you’ll see what the next one is. And if you’re watching this five years from now, you’ll see what the next one will be then I don’t know if I’ll be doing this five years. We’ll see. But I guess we appreciate your attention and your time and and take care