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Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week is Ellie Roozdar, who was a guest on the show last October. And that interview went very well. And afterwards, she got a lot of questions ^from people, and she’s still getting them. And so we decided to do a second interview in which Ellie answers some of the common questions she’s been getting. So welcome, Ellie. And thanks for doing this again.
Ellie Roozdar: Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. It’s my pleasure to be here. You’re welcome.
Rick Archer: So this will be a little different, I would suggest that people if they wish, go back and listen to the first interview before even in listening to this one, because then you’ll get Ellie’s whole background. And you know, how she kind of came to where she is now. We’re not going to go through all that, again, we’re just going to start discussing these questions. And I imagine it will spend a very pleasant couple of hours actually discussing these questions. So we’re going to start right in. So Ellie typed up the questions that she’s been getting, and probably gotten many more than these, but these are representative of the most common ones. And they seem to be in a little bit of a logical order. So I’ll just start and we’ll we’ll take it from the top and spend as much time as we like discussing each one. So the first question someone asked is, How can I stop the intense functioning of the mind? The mind is very entertaining, it is constantly moving to the past and future, how can I live as presence?
Ellie Roozdar: Okay, so, yes, but Rick, before I answer this question, I want everybody to just for a few seconds, we’re going to close our eyes, just for a few seconds, including yourself. Okay, and I want you to take it take a deep breath, and feel the presence that is here, right now. Strongly right here right now. And when you’re listening to this quest, these questions and answers, please try to listen from this prisons, the life that you are not from the mind and this character in the mind. Because if you if you listen it from here from the source is going to hit home and it’s going to something is going to open up. Okay, so that is the always remember yourself as this presents that you are at this moment, and you listen to this message. So now we slowly open our eyes. And now I’m going to listen to to answer this question. Okay, I’m about two days ago, when I was preparing all this questions and I was sitting in my living room and all of a sudden, this analogy just arise from from the depths of my heart. And I just want to use this analogy. So that throughout this whole entire interview, we remember this analogy. So because by looking at this analogy, you can see this whole entire picture so beautifully. Okay. So here it goes. See the truth of the matter is very simple. I as life as existence, wanted to know who I am. So I dressed up in this body. And I hypnotized myself to be this body. Just a thought. This is just a thought that’s not reality. And in this body, all of a sudden, I wake up to who am I to hide who I am. And not only I recognize that, I am nothing but also I recognize that I am everything. Now, the analogy is like this. I want you to see this body, my body See as the totality now okay the totality is the body. Okay? Now I as the totality pretend, pretend that I am this finger. Okay? So at this moment I hypnotize myself to be This finger Not the totality anymore. So, the moment I decide to do this, not only I am pretending to be this finger, but also this finger and this finger, and this, these are all I pretend to be. Okay, now, the moment I pretend I am this finger, I feel and I think, as a finger, yes. Okay, that’s all, that’s all there is. So, this the moment this thing happened, the ignorance happens. So I am ignoring myself to be this totality. And I am thinking that I am this finger. So obviously, I am the moment that happens. I am I’m looking at myself as this okay, as this is what I am. And this person is separate from me, this finger is also thinks that I am a person. So here we go. We look at each other. Of course, I am. Yes. And you are that? Of course, this looks like they are separated. But are we separated really? In reality? So that’s what it is. So now, as this finger, I see everything as separate from me, watch these people are away from me, of course, this is me, this is you. Definitely we are separate. But ultimately, we are not separate. Because ultimately, this is what I am. Okay. So that is people, especially the people are right now, if they want to listen to this just as a download, they really want to, I want them to see this analogy with my hands. And always remember my hands when I’m answering the questions. Just remember the hands. So, so this is the picture now. Okay. Now this person now as a finger, the moment this ignorance happened, the mind starts functioning is looking immediately for the source. I am immediately I’m looking for myself now. Who am I? This is not happening. Very obviously, it’s not a question of who am I but very, very unconsciously very subtly, this is happening in here. So, this, who am I is search starts and the mind the first reference of you now is going to be the mind you asking the mind who am I? And the poorly the mind. Which is confused now is now looking. Boom, boom, boom, let me look. Okay, I am a well, I am a teacher. Okay, so that’s my identity. Very good. Very good. I am now I am the father. Oh, very nice, very nice. Now, you know, I am this and I’m that and it keeps adding and then has this mental image, I am a good finger, I am a generous thing. I am, I am now you know, I am a loving finger unconditional love. Let’s practice all this. But as a finger, I cannot see. Because I don’t see the totality. I cannot have that unconditional love that I’m talking about. My vision is duality. I see this as me. And this is you. There is no way when I see you. I don’t pass judgment. I will because I see myself separate. And there is no way I don’t go to the mind. So the mind starts chattering because the mind is searching now. And that’s normal. That’s very normal, because that is the way this might now this mind is what is now looking for itself is a self seeking mind is wants to define itself. So that’s why when people say how can I stop the mind you cannot stop the mind who is hypnotized? Who believes that I am this thing, end of the story. This mind is not going to stop it doesn’t Yes, when you meditate Of course, when you meditate and you just give us a slowly slowly slows down sometimes even it comes into the complete silence of course, like half an hour you mean nothing may come and go. But the moment you come out of the meditation, the because the character is here that is that me character thought in here exists that I am the finger. I am this body. So this character is going to come back is going to function it as a as a thing not as a totality as a separate individual. So, stopping a month Forget it, you cannot stop this mine until until the this hypnosis drops the moment this drop not before that the moment you recognize the truth, you see the ultimate truth. In other words, this individual finger all of a sudden gets tired of this you know display and all of a sudden it says you know what, this cannot be I cannot be this finger, there is no way or be this. So, it would carry down it goes like this, and it goes into this cocoon, okay? In this silence in that stillness, all of a sudden, a recognize there is some sort of connection, something in here is like an awareness. Okay, that’s besides this finger, besides this individual, that recognition is not the ultimate freedom. If I just recognize that I there is this awareness in here there is this existence here, but still this character exists in this as as this finger, but this character would recognize that this is not freedom, the freedom is when this finger would all of a sudden turns around like this and sees the totality okay, like that. So, once this sees this totality what happens the vision changes, instead of having division from the finger looking at the wrist division is looking like this, this is how I see now, the totality of totality seeing right now, see that the totality is now seeing Okay, now, I am not only this is not only me, this is my finger, but also the rest of these elements are me. Yeah. So I am seeing now as as here, as right above, above this picture. So the duality, it drop, it drops, and it becomes as unity. Unity means I see myself as totality. And everything else, every all of this is within me. So I am the totality, including the body. This body is also in me. Okay, but I am not it. So this is the analogy. So every question that arises, I’m going to use this analogy, if you’re looking at this analogy you’re looking at from here, you’re looking at the question from here, not from the individual character. Okay, so, so, okay, the first question, the mind is not going to stop is going to chatter for just natural, it’s natural, because this mind is looking for itself. So you leave it alone, it’s not about the mind. It’s about that you have to realize that the reason this is happening because this is searching for itself. So it has to you need to quiet down Calm into this stillness. So that this whole thing a little bit clears out so you can see what is going on in here. That’s how it is. Okay, I hope that answer and for your information, the moment this recognition happens, the moment you realize you’re the totality I have good news for you. This chattering God right disappears. Guarantee promise you, I promise you that self seeking BOO, BOO, BOO, BOO, BOO BOO in the mind, God, the mind is completely in here. Quiet, like a servant, you give order, your mind does it. That’s the end of that. The order comes from the source now. Not from the character, not from the character whatsoever. And the character dissolve in this. The moment it recognizes the moment it sees that this category is not gonna last in here. So if you have this still a character here, who sees the awareness and it goes to the mind and comes back to the year to come wants to be present. That character is big and clear sitting there. Okay, so that is I just want to clarify that. That if that is your experience right now you don’t feel free because the character is functioning. I am a finger. I’m not the totality. You don’t see yourself as this as existence as emptiness. That is that’s a conviction. It has to happen as a conviction for sure. There is no 99.9% This is a 100% conviction. Okay, that’s it. This is where I am for sure.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. So to make sure that I and the listeners understand the analogy, I believe I do, but I just want to dwell on it for a bit. My, my desktop picture, and also my screensavers are all these NASA photos of the day. So right now I’m looking at you, but I also see a galaxy in the background on my screen. And the reason I like that is because it reminds me of the vastness of you. Yeah, really, it’s not, I’m not just thinking of the vastness of the universe. Whenever I look at pictures like this, I think of the vastness of intelligence, the vastness of being or presence, that that in which gives rise to all this and in which all of this is contained. And that that’s what I am, you know. And so when you speak of the finger, and the body is, as you say, an analogy, the body in this analogy represents that totality, universal, vast, all encompassing, great wholeness. The finger just represents the, this body, this individual expression. Yeah, and of course, there are millions of fingers, billions of fingers in this analogy, because there’s so many individualities that so many expressions. So anyway, that’s the gist. That’s what you mean by that analogy? And but then, of course, you said when, when the and maybe this will be elaborated in further questions, but you said that when the totality is realized, then the chattering mind just stops? That’s the $64,000 question is, how is the totality realize, you know, is easier said than done? Maybe?
Ellie Roozdar: Ultimately, if I want to give you the one answer in one sentence, it is the grace of the Divine.
Rick Archer: But then again, God helps those who help themselves. So we’ll be talking about that.
Ellie Roozdar: But the ultimate decision, right is I as as as life as an existence decide in this thing. I want to wake up totally right in this finger. I want to be a murderer. Right? That’s, that’s my decision. In this finger. I want to be just happy go lucky. Being I’m happy with this. Everything is fine. Yes, I am this no problem. Right? In this finger. I want to be a doctor, very, very famous, very knowledgeable, and all that. And I don’t believe in any of that. I think science is good. And that’s that’s me again, that’s what I advocate. You’re all good. I mean, Greg, this is not, you know, when you see this totality, you don’t, you’re not gonna say Oh, you are a bad guy. You are the murderer. What what did you is that not how it is going to be? Because just hopefully, is in play. And there is no such thing as, okay, this, this Bing now is woke up. Now I have to knock everybody’s door and wake them up. It’s not going to be like that. It’s not, you gotta just look at the totality as this as this view. And then okay, if somebody comes on your way, and interested, they send me email for fine, I take care of that. But if it’s not, if somebody says, Oh, I don’t believe in this, this does not nonsense, and okay, I’m happy. Leave them alone. That’s how it’s live. That’s how, what I want to behave as that. Right? There is no question.
Rick Archer: Good. I like that answer. Okay, let’s go on to number two. How can I get rid of the ego?
Ellie Roozdar: Hey, very good. How can I get rid of this character now? is sitting here and pretends that I am this finger again. Okay? My answer to this is that when you This is maybe this analogy helps. The ego this character is just a belief. It’s not real, right? It just believe in my head that I am this finger. Okay? So it’s not a reality. So I’m not going to go and and put energy on some believe, which is not even real. Okay, let me show you what I mean. Let’s say you are in a very, very dark room, which absolute is pitch black. You don’t see anything. You don’t even see the body. That’s darkness. Okay. Now you can do two things. One is just take your room and go after this darkness. Try to get rid of it. Okay, that’s how you people do try to get rid of the ego, which doesn’t even exist. ego does not exist. It’s just a thought in the head. Okay, that thought in the head makes this whole entire game play. Now, in this dark room, I can also do something Yes, I can touch the wall and look for the light. Okay, just the moment I turn on the light, what happen? The darkness is dark. So that’s what I’m talking about, see, the moment this finger turns around and see the totality, what happens automatically, automatically the ego drops for good. This path is the path of cancellation of that ego, cancellation for good, this is not going to come back and play games with you anymore. So because you know who you are now, you see yourself as the totality, this shift, this shift of the vision is the key. You see, again, I repeat that if you have if you have some knowledge, some experience or the awareness in here, but if this is characteristic of functioning here, and doesn’t see itself as the totality, you still feel as as a person, as an individual, so you can see the big picture. Okay, we’ve seen it, you know what I’m saying? So the big, the moment, that shift of the view happens, that the shift shift means that all of a sudden, I see myself as rise above this, and I’m seeing this whole picture, like this, away from it away from it. And all of a sudden, I noticed, oh, this is this was funny. You laugh you, you got a laugh for the rest of your life. You know, just how could I fall in love fall in a fall into something like this? It’s just beautiful. It’s just orchestrated so beautifully.
Rick Archer: How did I ever see this? The string as a snake? Yes. Yes. allergy.
Ellie Roozdar: Badly. Exactly.
Rick Archer: Now, do you see yourself as nothing? I mean, as a combination of totality, expressed as this particular finger I mean, you know, there’s still there’s still a sort of a, an the life of Ellie you know, and that’s still a finger it’s not it’s not all the fingers but
Ellie Roozdar: just look at the you can answer the question and watch watch the way I’m looking. This is Ellie. Okay, this is Rick. Right? Okay. Who is various me?
Rick Archer: I always always but of course you’re the totality you know, this is the totality speaking through Rigpa totality speaking through LA
Ellie Roozdar: So luckily, I see both of these bodies now. These two are me. Okay, there is no Rick and Ellie separate these are like, these are just instruments. These are not really these are vehicles. I see this, this as a vehicle. Vehicle. And that is that is we’re talking to me right now is a vehicle there is only this existence which I am functioning through this finger, okay, which is early. And is I’m talking is not a person, this is not a personnel anymore, there is no person here. Okay, but there is existence in here, see that? See that? This is how make make this is make it so difficult. This person, okay, in this part would recognize the truth. And it would it has to say ultimately, that I am that truth. It would recognize that this emptiness, existence. And it would declare, this is the last sentence that this character is going to say this is the last one until it drops. And it says that this drop has to drop into the ocean. If it didn’t drop, if that drop is still is outside thinking of itself as a separate from the ocean, although it sees the ocean, but it’s not one with the ocean. Do you see that? That’s the problem of majority of the people I talked to, they are still as a drop. The drop didn’t drop yet. And they you know what they do? When I talked to them, they they go dance around that dance around that they go into circle. They don’t want to jump into the center of this circle. They go they like to be a seeker to be in the circumference of the circle over and over tail chasing
Rick Archer: and the choice of dropping or is it grace as you said, Oh,
Ellie Roozdar: this is the grace this, this part this part? Nobody can help you.
Rick Archer: So the person can’t just say okay, I want to drop now here I go boom. Oh no, it has to be grace.
Ellie Roozdar: It has to be grace. The Grace decides face of the existence say You know what? That’s enough. I that I’m done. I have in Now quit the game and oh yeah, I am not for sure. And you know what? This recognition of the awareness when it happens the life is your guru the life that you’re that is gonna teach you how to be this okay? It would bring you some challenges over and over again. So that you see am I this character now am I thinking or am I this totality constantly, it brings that constantly and you see now a shift happened in here it is not a functioning as a person anymore this this is totalities talking right now, this is not a person,
Rick Archer: but totality is functioning as a person or a person
Ellie Roozdar: to up it absolutely is no person here this is this is this is a narrative. This
Rick Archer: is not a person whom through whom totality is functioning, has eyes, ears, nose, has intellect mind senses. Now now, you know, and those are all like tools or faculties through which totality functions. Now, isn’t there also some remnant at least of ego or ISense, which is just one of the faculties like senses like intellect, like, like, you know, like mind, which kind of makes this entity of you know, capable of functioning?
Ellie Roozdar: Well, I don’t know what you mean by I sense, you have to describe that I mean, I am a deployment I’m in the body again, as a finger,
Rick Archer: not that you identify with it.
Ellie Roozdar: And each one which I’ll be talking about, you have to be very clear, if you’re talking about AI as a totality yes, AI is a totality speaking as inside you have to know what is going on. You see inside when you talk, although there is really not inside you talking about in in the core of your being, you need to know who you are. Okay, then is this play in this play? Of course you play this is now for example, let me give you a very simple example. Tomorrow is a Mother’s Day. Okay, very simple. I know for a fact that I am not the mother. Right for a fact. Okay, now, do I play now tomorrow as the role of the mother? Of course I do. Yeah, of course. And they call me Mommy. Mommy, Am I answering? Or no? Yes, of course. It’s just like a play. Have you become an actor Rick, in in a movie, right? In this movie, you’re a doctor. Okay, your name is Roberts. Now you have a wife and three children in this movie. And this movie last, let’s say three years, from the beginning to end. Okay. So in this movie, you playing the role of this doctor, so you have to do whatever this doctor does. So when they call you, Robert, you turn around, right? Okay, when then there is a wife in there make believe as if she’s your wife, or children as if they are your children. That’s exactly how it is. But are you going to lose your identity in this movie? No, you know, you’re Rick. Right? You know, that this is, again, this is just a play.
Rick Archer: So you have a play identity. So there’s an identity, there’s an identity, but it’s not ultimately real. It’s just sort of like, in Sanskrit, there’s this term LeeSha video, which means faint remains of ignorance. And it’s said that, you know, you have there’s sort of like, superficial, remnant. Yeah. Which, which makes the living possible, you know, otherwise, you just be like,
Ellie Roozdar: I’m gonna say, I’m not gonna do this le ruse dot date of birth, my, my, I went to the driver’s lesson, place the other day. So they gotta take this picture. And this is what this is. What you are, this is this lesson. Yeah. So in the play,
Rick Archer: they don’t put totality on your driver’s license. Exactly. You
Ellie Roozdar: don’t say exactly. So it you know that your true identity. See, that’s, that’s why I’m saying this, this pattern is an intelligent, intelligent, ready mind, to know to recognize the difference between the truth which you are, and the play and the and the fiction. The mind has to recognize that it and don’t make get mixed up. It’s not going to Oh, so now that I’m nothing so then what’s going to happen if they somebody called me am I how know if somebody calls you? You are Ellie, you are Rick, of course. You’re not going to lose your head. You’re not going to lose your mind ladies and gentlemen, you are going to be gaining yourself as the ultimate truth. Which is this which is this is not this anymore, right? For sure. Yeah, but not that that doesn’t mean that you don’t love this, this you love this even more, because this is your instrument now. This is your vehicle through this through this, I recognize myself as the ultimate truth. So I love this. And this is giving allowing me to smell a nice, beautiful flower. That is the instrument now I can eat a nice meal and enjoy that taste of that meal through this. Okay, so I am going to love this even more, even more but the love that I’m talking about is not a selfish, self centered you know egoic you know character in mind the Latin kind of Allah Mee Mee Mee Mee No, that’s not going to be that it’s going to be the love. Which I love for that body also who’s talking? Same same. It’s the same love. Okay, it’s all embracing welcoming, all inclusive. Let’s let’s put it this way. All Inclusive love. You see this? See, this is how you see it. You see all of them like they tell you. You cannot say Oh, I like this one bit more than that one. It’s not these are my fingers.
Rick Archer: Which is the golden rule. Isn’t it? Love your neighbor as yourself? Absolutely. Does it that means
Ellie Roozdar: Yeah, who says I love you like that? Jesus? Jesus? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Oh my god of course. Because his vision is this vision not not like as a character love your neighbors. Okay, they do that. Oh, I am a nice character. I love my neighbor. I take care of my that’s the very very superficial level if you train yourself, you know to be a nice person and unconditional loving and you know, polishing this this finger. You cannot This is not the path of purifying. This is not the path of polishing yourself to become a better individual or more spiritual like as better thing we’re not talking about that. We are saying in this path. You are not a finger period all look at that
Rick Archer: making a fuss
Ellie Roozdar: had to see let me see the eyes. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. You, Leila. Leila, Leila.
Rick Archer: She’s restless, she likes to sit on my lap during this interview. So now we’re all set. Good So What you’re just saying is in terms of it’s really a matter of putting things in the proper perspective proper proportion, it’s not that anything is lost, it’s just that everything is you know relegated to its proper role and instead of the finger kind of taking over and Dom You know being the dominant thing the whole the whole body the whole totality. So, instead of the individuality saying you know, this is what I am and nothing more this is I am this totality functioning through this individuality. Excellent. All enter this individuality here
Ellie Roozdar: on inclusive nine up to see at the same time, this very paradoxic I am at the same time, I am nothing yet. I am everything, right? And as it shifts, it just goes but at the same time, it’s both. Yeah, so you’re not gonna renounce one or one of them? Or, you know, you know, you’re not gonna say, I’m only nothingness, right. It’s not that you’re not going to stuck in there. You know, you say I am everythingness everything I see it. That’s what uh, yeah, that body is the same. This is the same. This is oneness is talking. There is no two people right now talking interaction at all. I don’t see it at all.
Rick Archer: Good. Let’s go on to Question three. Is there any technique to be more present and have a peaceful life?
Ellie Roozdar: Oh, you can answer that. Rick, what technique we talking about? If you think you are a character again? Yes, you have to, you know, use all these techniques. How can I calm myself down? How can I bring myself to the present, but this as long as you are this character, and as a finger, you’re not going to find peace never is going to find you. Peace never going to find you because you think you are this thing. So even though you go on to the seminars, they teach you how to breathe and meditate and how to bring yourself to the present. You can’t bring yourself to the present because you as a person are searching outside for for to find yourself.
Rick Archer: Oh, there are techniques that have you search inside. I mean, like the very beginning of this interview, you wanted us to close their eyes and take a deep breath. Recognize the presence
Ellie Roozdar: Exactly. That’s the only way and the real way is just to just care. Back, back inside and see what’s going on in here. That is the real search. That’s the true search. Yeah. Other than that, I mean, this character is not going to find peace is cannot be in the present moment. You know, try that. I mean, people say, Oh, I tried to come to the prisoner few minutes, I’m here, then I go back. Because the character is not to this present moment to the character who is searching, its death, it doesn’t want that. It doesn’t want to stay here. This is too boring. This presents is too boring for the character. But once the character drops, this is absolute. Absolute joy, absolute ecstasy, absolute peace, and fulfillment at every single breath. Every breath is this. Yeah, this is absolute complete. It’s like, you know, you don’t have to be anywhere. Nothing has to happen from outside. I am this.
Rick Archer: But that’s what that’s what’s the character has dropped. But you know, the vast majority of people the character hasn’t dropped. So the question was, is there some technique to drop it? You know, not? Well, you say, you know, curve back that’s come back. And there are effective techniques, which can actually be taught, which can facilitate that curving back
Ellie Roozdar: me back to what to do what to not to just, oh, I just want to carry back and relax and then see what happened. That’s not what I’m talking about. This part is about when you care back up, when you quiet down, coming back? Yes, the silence is talking to you. Silence is pointing to the site, when you go curve back like that. This silence is talking to you too. So you can see all of a sudden, the truth like this. Okay, sure. That is silence is pointing towards the truth. That you are. Yeah. And that silence the truth awakens to itself, it wakes up. Okay, not in the middle of all this mental activities necessary. Majority on another exceptions. I mean, every teachings that we see that right now, if it’s you talking about Buddhism, Zen, even Sufism, there is this one common denominator in all of them? And what is that silence? Just go to the silence? Yeah, I am not against going to the satsangs and teachers and talking and they will read in books and internet, there’s nothing wrong with that. But ultimately, if you have done all of them, and this thing didn’t work, that is because you as a character does not know this silence very well. does not honor this silence very well. And do not want to jump into that. That’s, that’s the bottom line. So the silence, that’s the key. Now how you want to do it, I don’t, there’s so many methods for me just just quiet down, stay. And be be allow every thought comes in. And now you don’t have to stop it, he can stop it. I just told you, the mind does not stop until you know who you are. So you allow this common goke emotions come and go in that presence that you are that the truth that you are. And, and slowly, slowly, you notice that you’re just be. And in that, and some people you know, that’s really unbelievable things they say to me. They say I have been teaching meditation for many, many years. And they are still stuck. They don’t know who they are. They call me and we talk as Okay, from for the next two weeks. All I’m asking you to do just close your eyes and be just be they’re sending me back an email. I have hard time to be cannot be How could you not be? Try it? Yeah, try to cancel this being see if you can, you know, these are the mind is or the characters talking. The character says I cannot just be I mean, every time I feel like I beat it I get anxiety. So to me that’s just like, you know, I answered them nicely, lovingly, but they try to understand who’s talking. This is the characters talking. I can’t be what is that? You know, that is how you want to be in a seven you want to be a seeker because you want to be keep seeking and seeking this path is God once you see the ultimate truth, seeking stocks for good. And all these practices, how to be present and how to not to think and these are all drops no practice. No nothing. No search everything your desk Just that, and you just did that. That’s why we call this liberation. Liberation doesn’t mean, I know that unawareness. But every moment I have to remember myself as that, no, no, this is not based on the memory base. It’s not memory base, if you don’t have to remember who you are that that is what you are.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And yeah, yeah, very, very much so and you’re not going to lose it by forgetting to think about it, or any such thing. It’s, it’s in your bones, you know, it’s just stabilized.
Ellie Roozdar: Yes. But Rick, because truth knows itself. Right. Right. Once you recognize itself, how could you lose yourself? And that’s to me just absurd,
Rick Archer: right? But again, you’re sort of speaking of the perspective from the destination and there are people obviously, who are not there who are saying well, what you know, is there some technique or something and as you said, Sufism, Buddhism, Hinduism, all these isms, and have techniques that can be helpful. And, and even you know, you mentioned going to sad songs. I mean, a lot of times, a lot of times people go to sad songs, and it’s all just on the mental level. But some, sometimes people really awaken and they start songs because there’s a sort of a resonance that place. Yeah, as a sign silence of the teacher, and enables the other people to attune to that level of silence or some degree of it. And then they they do you know, it does facilitate an awakening for many people. I wouldn’t reject that either.
Ellie Roozdar: No, there is nothing to reject what I’m saying that if I didn’t go to any satsangs, I didn’t have any teachers, I just My way was just silence going within, okay, these Satsang are all good, especially if your mind is ready, if this character is ready to see the truth. Of course, of course, the moment it sees it, you know, people see sit next to me, all of a sudden, I see that they just they lose that just they lose, they collapse. I see them they collapse, that means the character collapses, it just becomes this, they become this, you know, and then this is talking. That’s that’s how it happens, of course. But the odd to me, the way I experienced myself in this body was I needed this body needed to be quiet. Yeah, this body has to be still because ultimately, you need to jump into this stillness, that you all
Rick Archer: Yeah, you would lie there for three hours and not move a muscle and people are gonna hear that in the first interview discuss.
Ellie Roozdar: Yes, you need that is that I’m not saying this was helping me to just recognize the silence that is here is pointing into this ultimate truth that is here. And I told you I had in that interview, I had these experiences of a love affair. I was thinking I am a character. And I’m going this inside, okay. And there was a lot of fear here. And I thought there is to there is this me. And there is the totality. See, and then this is the low fairy Harry. But in one of these love affairs, one of them, this character dropped, it just turned out. So once it came out, it was only best. Okay, but this awareness arise just woke up. But it was still a duality, I still was seeing myself for some reason, in this body, very attached to the body at the beginning. But after a while, you know, you know, the moment you read this recognition, having the attention of the body automatically goes back to this to the source. I don’t know for some automat this is just effortlessly, effortlessly. This adage is going out. It seems like it discovered something. It comes back all of a sudden here. Okay. And then once it’s here, it just that piece and everything was felt. And in one of those walking that I was doing. All of a sudden I saw everything is in me. Which, you know, it started a little bit shaky, you know, just on and off, on and off. And now of course, yeah, of course that it opens up wide open. Once that eyes open up, this AI belongs to the drunk so the finger closes up. It closes up, it’s not going to stay open. Again. Like, you know that vision never changes ever, ever. You see people inside of you that just pay attention. I take people to the walk meditation. I asked them to close the eyes and hold their hands. I ask them to walk and see Are you walking or the body is walking in you because you are stillness. You are still the body is moving in you. That’s it for sure. You experience that this is direct experience. This is not There’s something you believe from me don’t believe anything that I’m saying. You need to experience all of that this vision I’m talking about, that has to happen in you, us have that I have to open to see the totality like this not as a finger, you don’t see yourself as a finger, other people as a finger. Definitely, that’s for sure.
Rick Archer: But as you say, even in your own case, it took time, you know, and there were degrees of degrees of sort of clarity and stabilization and integration. And, you know, and it came in, at times, it was intermittent, and then it became more more stable. So, so people shouldn’t feel like if it’s not so instantly and completely what you’re describing for them, that they’re doing something wrong, you know, just sort of, you know, be patient and carry on and it will mature.
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely, and there is nothing wrong. It’s there’s no wrongdoing here. There’s no right. What is the body this this is functioning and each body is different. So it doesn’t the life that I am, okay, the I don’t like copies, I like to in each body I like to be awakened differently. In LA is different. I don’t want copies, no one same exact thing happened. 7 billion people here in somebody’s, I don’t want to even wake up on this one. I don’t want to wake up, I want to just stay like that. What’s wrong with that?
Rick Archer: And that’s what I want to be a cat and this one crab or a snail or whatever.
Ellie Roozdar: And you enjoy yourself as as as as this Oh, look at this miracle break. Everything is miracle. I see somebody this doc shows, look at the different variety of dogs, sizes and their attitude, even talking about their attitude and said this particular dog has this particular character is amazing.
Rick Archer: I know it’s marvelous, the creativity of the of God or intelligence.
Ellie Roozdar: Yeah. Which is you? We don’t forget, you know, yeah, you are. Just claim it, Rick, claim it to claim that if you need to claim that, you need to know that you are that you are not apart from that. You are
Rick Archer: Yes. But there’s it’s not just a matter of saying that. Oh, no. Because it’s like say it’s like a poor man saying, Okay, I’m the king. You know, I’m the President of the United States here. You know, I mean, there are people on the street who are delusional who are like that it’s not this is not a matter of really genuinely living it living it. You don’t necessarily live it just by saying I am the totality it has to be there has to be some reality to that.
Ellie Roozdar: You feel every breath yes feel that you feel it you feel that I am this expansion, no more this for a fact. I mean, that has to be an inch shows, you know this, the way you look is your eyes, the way you look at the people it coming from the source is not coming from the character anymore. There is no character, because there is no character never been, the character never existed. I’m just going to repeat that many, many times. People do not go and pay attention to the character and try to kill it and try to get rid of it. Don’t do that. That is another trap. Just turn on the light switch, turn on the light switch. And automatically automatically that goes away by itself effortlessly.
Rick Archer: Good. Let’s go on to the next question which actually pertains to this. I know that I am awareness but I still feel inadequate, limited and unhappy. I don’t feel that I am free. Yep. What is wrong with this picture? Yes,
Ellie Roozdar: what we did we just discussed that. As long as you think that you are a finger and you’re not the totality you feel limited, unhappy and miserable. This is miserable. I mean, how can I be this finger? My goodness? How can how can you be this? Ask yourself? Is that possible? At age six, I saw that I saw that I am not Oh my god. This is not a doesn’t make sense to me. At all. I was not identified. And this is the same eyes. It’s not the different eyes. But at the moment when I was experiencing that I it was very scary to me. Because I didn’t know who I was. Now, I see it again the same eyes looking but this eyes now is although I don’t know who I am. This is see this truth is not a mystery. You’re not gonna you cannot define who you are. Okay, this is not definable. You’re undefined. And what you exactly I cannot say one thing about this. I cannot describe this. I cannot but you can be it. You can fully be it. No doubt with that. out any doubt, you need to claim this conviction? Yeah, bottom line is commission. You’re still thinking on happy and and all that because you think still Yoda your person.
Rick Archer: So yeah when the person says then I know I’m awareness but I’m miserable. I mean that that knowledge of awareness must be somewhat just conceptual not actually living it. Otherwise, maybe some of the mixture yeah, there’s something
Ellie Roozdar: I felt I work with people with Skype, okay. And I was working with some guy who has been in Zen monastery for all his life, all his life. And he called me and he says, Look, I don’t know who I am. Just help me out. So we get this walking meditation together, okay, just walking together over step by step over the Skype. And I do have all fun. Sit at their computer. Yep, yes. And then the guy was just, we were going, that’s how I do. That’s how my retreats are right now pretty much through Skype. And if people can come in, and we need to step by step, I don’t tell you who you are. You tell me when we go down together, like scuba diving together, I be with you like a coach, not as a guru, not as someone who want to pour information to your head or your consciousness, your awareness, your this and that’s not my style. I am going to take you there we go together. And we go deep down. And I’m going to ask you the question, especially for the people who have done meditation, they are familiar with this area, so they know that they trust this. So I asked you the question I asked you, you see, there’s a stillness and there is a truth in here, which is always hear something that is is never come and go. Okay. It’s also aware is aware of this emptiness of the silence. Also. Now, tell me who you are. So he’s going to eat he noticed that he recognized that completely, completely. He recognized the truth awakened. And he started laughing. He started laughing, laughing, laughing. And then he says, yes, absolutely. There is no question about that. This is what I asked him many, many times. Just Are you this? Tell me this? Tell me you are are you this? Are you this? So he said that many times? Yes, I am this I am this. So then, about a month later, he calls me okay. He said, My mind went crazy. I was I couldn’t even meditate. I was sick the next day. My mind was going crazy. Of course, this feels like death. To the mind. This is like a suicide. I’m telling you, it’s like suicide. So today yes, the character because the character doesn’t want to die. This to the case is is like oh my God, I am not I am nothing. What is that? But it this feeling of death is just is very strong for some of these characters. They they read it to be this miserable little finger. Let’s put it this way. They rather Oh, no, no, no, no, this is too much for me. I am so many people when I ask them. Are you ready to die? Are you ready to die to this you character and your life? Honestly, believe me I get emails that they said no, I’m not ready. I’m not. So then it’s a readiness you have that mine has to be ready, mature, mature leads to level of maturity. It says that, you know what, I deserve this. i This is it. This is that that’s what I am. That’s the last thing that this this character is gonna say.
Rick Archer: That’s a good point about maturity and about readiness. You may have heard of Shankara he was the founder of Advaita Vedanta and you know, he talks about stages of development that people undergo may undergo or even practices they may do before actually being worthy of a ready to actually have the final realization and he said it may involve you know, selfless service or meditation or different things and it sort of cultures and refines the whole structure to the point to the point where realization can really Dawn you know, some people don’t like that kind of talk and and non dual circles, but the founder of non duality talked that way.
Ellie Roozdar: That’s absolutely let me talk about this maturity. I’ve given a simple example to the people that Rick if there is a two year old boy, let’s say sitting here, and in one hand, I have a half a million dollar diamond. And another hand I have an ice cream cone. Which one he’s got. So he’s that’s his maturity, right? Yeah, but the same boy at age 25. The same deal, right? Which one he’s gonna pick. Take the diamond diamond, because he now he sees that maturity is he sees that diamond as an as a valuable thing. Although the ice cream is very tempting. It’s very tempting. Do you know what you know that that’s the value
Rick Archer: of ice cream? Or that diamond is?
Ellie Roozdar: Very good. That that’s the maturity I’m talking about. The maturity of the mind is that when we go together in this dark, you know, this walking meditation, when you see the truth, your mind his character has to be ready to say yes, to this. Sure. Absolutely. That’s what I am. Absolutely, that is what I am. Although it still sees the duality doesn’t matter, you, you trust this, you need to trust this, although this is not a tangible thing. This is not a thing to hold on. And it’s like a freefall. It looks like a freefall is like a death. But death, this death has to happen to this character. Okay, this character cannot be here. And also I very identify and recognize some awareness is here, it’s not going to work. Okay, this character has to die into this so that it would see itself as a totality. So the character dissolves in this. So I really want you to remember everyone, this analogy I gave you, and try to do it yourself. When you, you know, when you’re listening to this, just just see what exactly this is the vision, this is the vision reality vision is like this. So your vision is going to change for good, for good. So that’s how you look at everything.
Rick Archer: Good. Let’s go on to the next one. Here’s another one that starts with the same phrase. I know that I am awareness. That’s the way the previous question started this moment, but when I go to the mind and in relationships, I lose, how can I remember it all the time? Not yet.
Ellie Roozdar: This who’s talking now? The character is talking again? The
Rick Archer: character psyche, how can I the character? Yeah, hang on to this
Ellie Roozdar: exactly. Character is still here. Recognize some, there are some awareness here, right? In the moment, I Yes, I feel that this is a way. But then when I go, I go to the mind. Okay. So there is a character in the middle, it goes to the mind and comes back. So you have you need to close your eyes and check is this character exist? The attention goes to the mind and the mind arises from this. From from this, that where you are the mind the nine mental activity arises from you. But you don’t go anywhere. Where are you going? You’re here, folks. You do not go anywhere. The attention of the body may go to to the mind. And there is nothing wrong with that. You know, once you know what yourself let’s put it this way, once you know yourself. Any thought is welcome. As long as you know who you are. Any emotion, any emotion is welcome.
Rick Archer: I suppose people might say Well, yeah, but it’s easy for me to remember who I am when I’m walking on the beach or you know, just sort of meditating and taking it easy that then there that presence is lively. But boy, when I go to work, my boss starts yelling at me or when my kids start doing this, and my wife starts doing that, then I lose it, you know, so I can’t it’s not maintained under trying circumstances again,
Ellie Roozdar: because there’s a character still there. The character has to remember that I am awareness.
Rick Archer: So how does the character remember that in the midst of Times Square in the midst of a difficult situation? Is there a way to remember it? Or is it either it’s it’s there to whatever extent it’s really there. And it’s it’s remembered or it isn’t spontaneous? He’s
Ellie Roozdar: there always. Yeah, you cannot consciously you absent because that’s you? Because the cat, the act, the truth is you, you and the truth are one. How could you lose yourself? Try it.
Rick Archer: But obviously, you know, many people are very overshadowed. You know, they do crazy things, they commit crimes, they beat others and so on. They don’t seem to be remembering it under those
Ellie Roozdar: Yes. Because they know that because they think that I am disconnected. This is my I am this is what I think I am. This is what I and I have a mental belief about myself. I have this thing about in my head that Who am I about as a character. And I see you as a character. And I have a mental belief about you. And when I kill you, I’m not killing really you I’m killing you that mental character that I think you are correct. So that killing is going to happen now. When I’m looking at this as this awareness as as this existence is this. Is this being who killed out of one. There has to be billing blame that or is there any blame here that this doesn’t know who he is? He thinks the finger he thinks he I character. So when is the blame? How can I
Rick Archer: miss forgive them father they know not what they do. Because,
Ellie Roozdar: yeah, because the ignorance is right now is in functioning. He’s ignorant
Rick Archer: is what we’re talking about as people whose ignorance seems to be intermittent, you know, people who are maybe seekers and they feel that they find it sometimes they recognize totality. And then other times they lose it. And the questioner is saying, Well, how can I stabilize it? So it’s not, too it’s not lost?
Ellie Roozdar: Well, that, you know, honestly, there is no practice here. Because I can’t I know for a fact, when this thing during the drop drops, let’s put it this way. This, all of these practices are gone.
Rick Archer: So it comes back to grace.
Ellie Roozdar: That’s exactly true. So it is no practice the free. That’s why we call it liberation. Liberation from what, from all these practices? Oh, I have to practice I have to be here. I have to remember this awareness. I had to remember that that still is not the job didn’t drop.
Rick Archer: But till the drop has dropped, can practices be helpful? I mean, you have your walking thing that you teach, for instance, is there something that it’s like they say it takes a thorn to remove a thorn, you know, and so until the thorn is removed, maybe you need to Thorn?
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely. Once you recognize the awareness, the attention, try to try that maybe only the tracks, bring the attention back to the to the source. That’s all, just see what you saw in the meditation, let’s say we do together a walking meditation, or anything that’s just walking, closing your eyes, you recognize the truth. Okay, so you saw that, just make sure that you like that diamond, I’ll just talk to you. Make sure that is direct, you recognize the truth as the diamond. Because the truth is very simple. Your mind is not ready. It’s gonna say, that’s not it.
Rick Archer: Okay? So you’re saying like, until you know yourself as source, do by whatever means works for you. Learn to bring yourself bring your attention back to source, it seems to have been cast off.
Ellie Roozdar: Yes. Very, very difficult. And, you know,
Rick Archer: don’t strain and struggle.
Ellie Roozdar: Why not? Don’t struggle, do not, you have to see the truth as an as a valuable thing, you have to value these bodies, you know, the mind has to recognize that, that although this is not nothing, but this is not nothing, right? This is nothing, nothing. This is everything. This mind has to be ready for it. If the mind is not ready, no matter how much interaction I give it to you. That’s why I asked the people are you ready to die? Are you ready to die for this truth? And if they say yes, I have to ask them again. And again, to make sure this person is not a I just want to give them some taste of it. This is like, you know, I was talking to someone two days ago, actually this gentleman, he’s, he’s was calling from California. Have you seen if you sitting in the beach, you know, and then you see different people going into the water, you know, especially saying Hawaii, I go visit my family and and there are some people, you see them there, just take off their clothes, and they just run and didn’t jump into the water. Right? See that? That is the additive.
Rick Archer: Tow and yes,
Ellie Roozdar: some people do stick to toe i Oh, this is too cold for me. Now I have to come back to go sit back again. Now I come back again. Now some people and then now I go halfway, you know, that is the attitude of the of the ego character I want in this path, your attitude has to be just jump.
Rick Archer: Well, the funny thing here is though, you know, like earlier, you were saying, Well, you know, as a totality, I see this, this finger wants to be asleep, this finger wants to be a murderer. This finger wants to you know, be a saint, this finger wants to be a doctor. And so there’s a kind of a paradox here because on the one hand, you’re saying that totality just enjoys all this variety. And some some people are thick headed and some are not. But on the other hand, you’re saying, Well, if you’re, I guess when you say this, you’re speaking to the fingers that have kind of on the verge of waking up. And maybe they’re you know, part of the deal would be to actually have a little bit of choices. one’s attitude, one’s willingness one’s when sincerity, one’s readiness, one can kind of put some attention on being more selective.
Ellie Roozdar: Exactly. We’re not talking about those other people that they want to be just like that. They want to be distinguished for the rest of their lives. That’s okay. We are I’m not even talking. You see, this is a spectrum, this way that these fingers imagine this one extreme extreme when someone says I am absolutely this body this is me this is this is the totality. That’s when the body dies. That’s the end all or even now over No. Yes. I believe in a god there’s a creation I am separated, I want to be one. This is all the same category again, starting here. But then there are some group of people that in the middle, they say, oh, you know, I’m happy with this body, you know, I’m a, this is easy this like, I listen to music, I go for work. Okay, fine. That’s that’s you. But then there is this one categories that they know something is not. This cannot be it. I cannot be this thing. This is the group I’m talking about. Now, I’m talking to that group.
Rick Archer: Those are the people who contact you. And those probably by and large are the people who would actually be listening to this.
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely. I’m talking about this school that they say I am seeking, I have been doing this for a long time, guys calling me I have been in this path for 25 years, I have done all these Meditation yoga. What was wrong with this? What it keeps saying that, because they don’t know that, first of all recognition has to the correct resolution recognition, because some people think that oh, this space of emptiness and silence, and that is that emptiness like a death emptiness. That is what I am. It’s like a black hole. That’s not a black hole. If you meditate, you know, this is not empty. This is full, full, full. So because according to the mind, mind thinks this is Oh my god, I’m going to become nothing what happened, I’m going to die. That is the mind talking. But that’s why I’d say to people, if you have been meditating, if your mind is familiar with this space, and is comfortable with this, this home, this home, trust that because ultimately this mind, character has to dive into this. Isn’t that so? Ultimately, it has to say this is me? Yes. It has to say yes to this. So if this mind, never practice any kind of silence, it has been all over the place. If you do this walking meditation, this mind says, I am not comfortable here. I have to get out of here. You know, I see people at the beginning they say, Well, when I close my eyes, I feel like I’m suffocating. Yes, of course.
Rick Archer: So on accustomed doing
Ellie Roozdar: Yes, there are icons, they don’t know what is facing. But it’s slowly slowly you get the mind gets used to it. The mind sees this. Okay? No, this is although it’s emptiness, but it’s not really, this is really home. And this is really home. Mine has to say this is home until ultimately mine says, I am home. Not I am at home. Right? I am that. Yeah, I’m home. That’s
Rick Archer: a humdrum osmy. Which is, I am that.
Ellie Roozdar: I am the Autodesk the ultimate thing. That’s, that’s the conviction.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. Let’s go on to the next question. Each one of these questions is somewhat similar to the others, but each one is bringing out a different flavor. So the next question is, I want to get closer to God pray every day to be a better individual find my mission and have a positive effect in the world? How does the path of self realization help me?
Ellie Roozdar: Very good question. See, this is a real character now is a very innocent, very innocent, and this character believes that I am this thing yet, but I’m looking for God. Okay. So, I want to know how this path is going to help me this character, it has a strong already strong belief now, that I am definitely separate, separated from the source, the source is one I am separate, so it doesn’t see see this, this finger does not see any connection whatsoever.
Rick Archer: A person is asking how can I be a better finger? I want to be I want to be a positive finger.
Ellie Roozdar: Yes, I want a positive finger I want to there is no service, you know, once you recognize see that, look at the totality. Right? What is the mission of everything, the thing is they don’t have really mission, the fingers have to work together for the totality, the totality decides what is going on the dance is in the hands of the totality. So not individuality of everything anymore. So if your individual wants to have a mission, what kind of mission this thing you can have all my life, what commission distributor, they have nothing, there is no mission. So in this path, the totality is functioning as one through every single individuals. So you are not separate entity to have a mission to try to become a better person more purified, and none of that. Now it’s in this path to my friends, I’m telling you, I dare you at the beginning of this path, drop your belief drop it. I think once you know the truth, whatever is right, it comes to you. So you see Jesus says on beautiful cotton you know coach you hear yet and and see oh my god that yes that is from the source this message is from the source absolute
Rick Archer: so let’s take some practical examples I mean some people do have a very definite calling some people are excellent musicians or they are they feel called to be a doctor or to be a politician or to you know to serve in some way they have a desire to do that and very often it doesn’t pay very much they they might just volunteer their time they want to help animals you know from being abused or whatever so you know the question is are you saying that they need to drop that because because they’re asking would self-realization actually helped me be a better musician better or better humanitarian
Ellie Roozdar: look look at the picture again this wants to be the musician good good for him because I as a totality want to be a musician here. So I will do my very best in there. Right so I’m gonna perform as leaphart I play with my heart not with my mind I play like there is nobody around me
Rick Archer: yes, you say If you know yourself to be the totality then you can be a much better violinist or a much better you know
Ellie Roozdar: quite a bit I want to say everything comes from this from from the heart and
Rick Archer: you’re playing from source rather than just right
Ellie Roozdar: like cooking if you’re cooking from the heart The heart is the source is cooking. I cook I don’t taste the food it just the hands knows that this this knows and when you taste the food there is enough seasoning right I promise you that’s cooking from the heart cooking from the mind I have to measure everything I take this measurement okay this much salt this much you know this and that? That’s not what you know we talking about a little bit a little higher. Big picture we talking about? So you can do anything you want there’s no question but that’s how the divine wants to be. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as you if if you know who you are that instrument that you playing is is not a character playing characters plays for to impress other people character plays for the money okay, but if you love to play this you play it as as the source and that’s why we have all these genius musicians are they when they are in the stage the source is playing fully
Rick Archer: yeah there’s there’s even athletes like that you know basketball players Michael Jordan when he was really playing well he was playing from source
Ellie Roozdar: everybody you know once you’re in the present playing the character this dissolves you got to believe me when you’re intense when functioning something’s that you love the character is not there. And that’s why you see these beautiful paintings why these paintings mele worth millions of dollars because that this source may draw that the source do all that. So there is a difference. That’s why that that that picture. Mona Lisa, that smile worth it’s worthless. I mean, priceless. I’m saying priceless because that is smile. What is that a smile. What that is smile. talks to you. That is smile is a content smile. That smile says to I know who I am. And I am I am this and that is smile is a smile on the final. Final. That’s it. I am that. That’s why that is that’s worth millions. I went to France I saw this. He’s the gods all around that guy’s outstanding. Not only just covered up, but the guys are driving around that is not the value of this thing. It’s that message that comes out of it is so alive. It that messages are just like the Rumi’s poetry. It’s alive. That’s not a dead thing on it on a paper. You know? So
Rick Archer: good. Yeah. The next two questions are similar. And we’ve actually sort of covered this point. So we don’t have to go on too long. But it’s basically the question of, you know, having profound experience like spirits of totality and then losing it again and then another another person asked, well, once you’re awakened, can you lose it?
Ellie Roozdar: Okay. The experiences I just want to emphasize, do not just chase experiences, okay? Because the ultimate truth is right here. Okay. The experience happens in you and moves out. All right, but there is something here that doesn’t come and go. That is what you have to recognize. And that is what you have to fall in love with. Not takes perience because I personally, was trapped with this experience as a person for two and a half years, just going down here have a love affair. Going down here, go have a love affair lose, when you come out of the meditation, you’re just a normal individual, again, per se. So back and forth, idioms is not going to help you they experience and especially there are some teachers, I see people say, Oh, this teacher had such and such experience and that if somebody’s constantly emphasizing on his experiences, this person this this character still there is so proud of his or his experiences and trying to show off this experiences, okay, this character wants the character dies, you’re not gonna interrupt, you’re not gonna be interested on experiences anymore, because this path is not about experience, any kind of experience this path the book is about who am I as this and that is fulfilling is satisfying in every breath. Every breath you are the joy of it is just so here.
Rick Archer: So is who I am as this can that be lost? Can that go? Or it could there could be a phase where I know I am this and then oh, I forgot it again.
Ellie Roozdar: Because this is not known. It’s known as once he’s known he’s not he wants this finger turns around and see the source. See it for itself. Okay, that hypnosis drops. I mean completely drops completely, it’s not going to come back into Oh, I am a person again. It’s going to act as if, as if see, this is what is now acting as if there is an Ellie, as if she’s married as if she is has children. But is that true? Is that really true? Ultimately? No. My son is I mentioned last in the last interview, he knows the source he talks to me from the source. Last year, we were sitting in the backyard, I was just talking to him interacting from the source. You know, he’s just dancing around. I asked him this one question. I said I’m gonna ask you this question I want you to answer from the source. Am I really your mother? And he smiled first he smiled and then he looked at my eyes very very straight straightforward with that smile. He said no. That is true. That is true. He’s talking from the source of course I’m not your mother. Oh my goodness. Of course. Of course you this has to be so there in your heart you will have to know that you are not a mother for sure.
Rick Archer: Or he may be could have said I am mothers I am sons I am
Ellie Roozdar: the mind that the mind as he talks to me from the source from the source. You are not my mother
Rick Archer: couldn’t source say that though? Couldn’t sort of say Oh,
Ellie Roozdar: no. No, the mind says that because I don’t know how to add the presence. I don’t I don’t have any identity. Zero identity I don’t I don’t see myself as a thing. I see space everything arises from the space comes out so this is my identity. So that’s where he’s talking about his he is as this as as this as a vision
Rick Archer: yeah, as I say is electricity a lamp is electricity a refrigerator is electricity, you know a light bulb no electricity is electricity those all those other things are just ways that electricity is channeled or express
Ellie Roozdar: absolutely yes, yes
Rick Archer: right. Okay. Are there any strong emotions sadness, anger, after liberation,
Ellie Roozdar: very good question. Any emotion and feelings and everything can arise because this body is conditioned this body is it has a physiology has a memory and everything it can it can comes up for example, this past few years, I lost a couple of very, very good friends, you know that I know. And when I heard the news, let me tell you how this body was functioning. The tears was coming down, pouring, pouring. But deep here, there was this absolute peace and joy. Which they these two energies they combined together is like a sweet and sour and it was delicious. It was not. It was not an energy that takes me off. Off is what I am just kidding threw me off it was right here playing dancing it is energy was dancing. So, yes the sadness arises anything can arise and anger can arise anything can have any because this body’s condition is interacting, but as long as you know who you are as an ultimate truth that you’re not going to identify with that you know if you are this thing if you definitely identify with that emotion that then oh I am this anger but then I know this is what I am and this is the play is playing. So, I don’t take this seriously now, okay, the two friends are gone, but there are they there are they really there are there the body drops, but am I going to drop you have to know that that has to know enough to know that you don’t go anywhere for sure. The body of course, every moment every moment, but are you going anywhere? So, what Yes, yes in the play The them you know, you can have anything in a motion can arise. But in reality, you know, what is going on in the big picture? You see the big picture now? Not just me as a person.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. How is life after liberation? Okay, how do I live the truth? Okay.
Ellie Roozdar: The same way you lived as an ignorant as an ignorant How did you pretend you know you pretended all your life to be an ignorant you ignored? Who you are as an as an ultimate truth? You you pretend it to be a thing that takes so much energy, wasn’t it? It was a struggle. Okay, after liberation. What really living the truth? The truth is living. And this is effortless, absolute, effortless. And in every experience that you have interaction, the truth reveals itself. More and more. More and more you recognize that this? This is what I am. This is what I mean. Of course, of course, this is what I am. You know, because you’re not going to identify any more with the role all of a sudden, oh, I am the mother, I have to worry about this child and what happened to her on his that’s, that’s gonna go the fear is going to go of course, you’re not going to have this future, what’s going to happen to me kind of thing. There is no this little me that a poor little me, I have to take care of, you know that this is what you This is it. So this body, any kind of activities is gonna go for this body, whatever can happen. So
Rick Archer: what do you actually go into, like, improve your life in certain ways? Let’s say you had a drinking problem. Are you are an impatient person, or you’re prone to anger? Are you? You know, you argued with people and so on? Is that stuff going to change? Do you think?
Ellie Roozdar: As far as arguing, you see, like, let’s say, again, if you see yourself as a character, definitely you argue, but if you see the big picture, what is the argument, you know, that the essence he knows that?
Rick Archer: What is the big picture perspective going to I mean, does does argument does argumentativeness or impatience or addictions, and all that do those arise from from being confined as merely an individual and when took the totality is realized, those tendencies and behaviors naturally drop off?
Ellie Roozdar: I don’t have those kind of, I never had those type of habits like drinking and smoking. And that’s why I cannot relate to that. Honestly, I cannot give you any answer for that. But in here, there is a transformation happen transformed. If somebody says, I know that I am awareness, this is the data and then they think and behave the same exact way as before. What is the transformation? Well, like
Rick Archer: for instance, did your husband notice a change in your
Ellie Roozdar: family? Absolutely. He. Well, he, you know, the way we used to interact was the lucky people characters. But when when he’s sitting next to me, his character melts down. compete. Yeah, I mean, he falls into my lap. He never sit too close to me. He was always sitting in the other side of the room. Now he comes in here, and he puts his head on my lap. Never happened before. Never, ever, ever. That’s not his style. And then he melts, he melts and then the relation there is no relationship anymore. There is no two people. Boo Boo Boo Boo Boo Boo Boo like that. It’s not going to be like that. It’s just this. This is living. And yes, of course as two bodies, you know like this too. Bye. Are these like cuts? But I know, I know what is going on behind. So there is no, I’m not gonna argue with him if he’s not interested in this path. I just have a compassion, love and compassion. And this is how he wants to be. He’s not he likes to listen to his music, and spirituality is not his thing. Let’s be it. I’m not gonna go convert him. There is not that’s
Rick Archer: not my sounds, it sounds like your realization really enhance your relationship, though?
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely. Rick, there is no doubt in my mind, it may be the children with other people, any interaction that I have, the truth is, is absolutely up and running, I see that I see myself in, in the picture. You see, this is how you see yourself like you’re talking to a plumber, you see yourself as like this, this is this is how you see it. So you don’t see yourself as a person talking to a person as as totality is talking, like way above that. So your interaction is just pure love. Pure Love, you know, you’re looking at his face, you interact, and he sees your love. You bring water for him. You interact, you just you know, that’s the interaction you have with people. Absolutely. I’m gonna go for a walk. I interact with people I see. I say hello, but the hello is not just superficial. It’s just very, very deep. Look in the eyes. I see you as me. You are? This is it. You are in Me Right now you’re walking in me. That’s how I see people right now. So how can you not be transformed? As totality? Everything is you?
Rick Archer: That’s great. I think we’ve kind of covered this, but we’ll see if you have a few words to say, how do you feel about a murderer or a child abuser or in general the destructive act of others? After after liberation. You were saying earlier that, you know from the totalities perspective, you know, this finger happens to be a murderer.
Ellie Roozdar: Okay, and compassion and love and compassion arises because this doesn’t know who he is. He doesn’t know who he is. He thinks that he is this finger. So he thinks that you are in someone against him. He has a fight with you. And then he decides to murder. And that is the mental image that he’s drawn to. So that is that’s been answered already. This is going to be absolute compassion, absolute absolute compassion, because the ignorance is in charge right now is ignorant. That’s what it is. Yeah.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. Here’s a here’s a question. I was listening to some spiritual teacher and he was mentioning that there is nobody sitting on these chairs, there is no, there is no doer. So do I have a will? free will or not?
Ellie Roozdar: Okay. Well, you know that whoever that teacher is, you know, people go and listen to all these things in this lectures and stuff. The teacher is talking the truth, because as you see in the totality, when you looking, there is nobody here, really as individuals as as because there is no characters in his fingers. All he sees is the totality. So he’s right. It is nobody as an individual self, like a separate self sitting on those chairs. But their bodies are sitting in the chairs, definitely like fingers are there. But in the end to tie in the big picture, he sees the big picture. So he sees only the source, but not individuals. That’s what he’s talking about. And there is no any doer, correct, because who is the doer, really, ultimately, ultimately, the source is the doer. And even as a murderer, as a murderer, who is really ultimately did the murder, the source, but the source is in coma? The source that it doesn’t know who he is, right? Okay. So therefore, this That’s why Jesus says something beautiful, it says, Hate the sin, not the sinner. Isn’t that so? Hate the action? The action is yes, destructive, but who is really ultimately the sinner? This is not even a Senate who this force is behind that. You see it for a fact. So you’re not going to judge that? There’s no judgment here. I hope that I answered that question. So, it is the source is doing this. So yes, you are not a doer. You as a character. He’s talking about you as a character are not to do it. But there is a doer there is a doing happening in this totality. Just like I am moving my fingers. See, the fingers are not doing by themselves. I am doing that. There is a source behind that. Okay, that’s this is the analogy. Just remember the analogy. The source is doing that.
Rick Archer: The last part of that question, which I didn’t read was I am confused. And I think the reason that people sometimes get confused is teachers speak from their perspective, which is totality, or maybe it’s in some cases, it might just be an understanding of totality, and not the actual living of it. But presuming it’s the living of it, they speak from that, and people and they describe a state of no, no sense, no sense of doership, no freewill and so on. But then people are listening and they feel like they do have a sense of doership they do seem to have freewill. And so they get confused, because there’s a there’s a disparity between the level that is being spoken and the level that is being experienced or lived. Which is probably why it says in the Gita that the Why should not delude the ignorant by speaking of the non involve nature of the self, they should just, you know, speak speak to the level of consciousness. Yes,
Ellie Roozdar: exactly. Because they know, that’s why Rumi says what I say it, I come to your level. And I say, yeah, he doesn’t talk from up here. He comes down to your level, but he’s talking. So you understand. I will never say that there is no do it. That doesn’t help you. That’s not going to wake you believe me. It’s not going to help you. If you want to use that as a shortcut. Oh, let’s see if there’s not the I get emails. Oh, I know that there is no me here. I know, there is no, but no, you don’t know what you are trying to impose that upon yourself. And that’s how the mind does. That’s how this character does, tries to act as if, as if there is nobody there, and it treats you. So you’re going to get into this trap. And you’re going to stay there and you don’t know how to get yourself out of it. Unless, you know, the right way of doing that. And the right way was coming coming in that for that is my suggestion. It might be so many different ways. But the way the thing that it works here was absolute silence, or to the silence, just use the right method that they have been doing for many, many years. For 1000s of years, people are practicing that, not the shortcuts. Yes, once in a while, once in a while shortcuts work. You sit down for if you’re ready to hear something, guess it triggers, but majority of us majority of human beings beings need to go into that silence because that silence is talking to you. It’s like a highway, you just put into it, put yourself in the highway and just go, don’t go to these little side roads that people taking you and telling you this is my experience, you their experience is their experience. You may not have that. Like for example, last time I talked about Kundalini awakening here and now. But I am telling you, everybody, you don’t have to have any of those experiences in order to recognize who you are. Okay, please listen, you don’t have to have that. Now that I see the big picture. Those experiences just for fun. For it happens in somebody’s minds, it doesn’t happen in some others. So, there is nothing has to happen nothing esoteric has to happen in you. Nothing, no, no firework nothing has to happen in order for you to recognize what is true here. What common goes what is ultimate. And, and, and first of all, recognize it, then fall in love with it is important. They fall in love with who you are at the present. And then once that happened, living it’s so simple. You don’t have to think about how I’m going to live this is this is one breath at a time. It comes out by itself effortlessly.
Rick Archer: Yeah, like breathing. Yes. Okay. Here’s another question. Someone says, I was with a spiritual teacher. And she helped me overcome my fear by feeling it thoroughly and directly. At the moment it seemed the feeling was gone. But after a few days, the same level of fear came back again.
Ellie Roozdar: Right is that’s a very good question. Just like this, like I am this character, like with this mine and sitting next to this guru, right? He’s he’s all present and everything. Yes. When you sitting next to the guru, and you say, Oh, I feel so inadequate. And she’s okay. Look into that and I want you to feel it, feel this inaccurate adequacy. So this person starts doing that. This person now character walks as you come into the presence, okay, that character ego character drops in the presence. So it will feel absolutely that emotion that emotion comes up and it dissolves in the presence of hair on presence and that Guru. Okay, so in that moment, yes, it is. Oh, thank god. This was just nothing. Oh, thank you, God. Oh, this is so good. Okay, you feel so good. Your Heart heart palpitations and you give a hug and everything fine. You walk away from that. Two days later. The character is still there. The character didn’t go anywhere. Yes, you overcome that feeling of fear and everything that it arose at the moment, but the character didn’t go anywhere. So she taught you a technique, anytime you have this feel, you know, this feeling of fear or just sit down and look just directly experienced that, yes, you can do that for the rest of your life. If that’s that’s the kind of thing you want the technique, how I’m going to stop them on, okay, I take his breath off a few seconds, I’m going to stop. Oh, thank God, he’s so good, I feel so good. So that’s my technique. Yes, if you want to, if that is resonate with your heart, go ahead and do that use all these techniques to overcome all these feelings. But this part is not about that. This part is not about technique, it’s about who you are, wants to find out who you are, this feeling of inadequacy does not feeling good, and, you know, not, you know, all these fears and future and this is all drops, I promise you, because these feelings is belongs to the character who thinks that I am the separate little miserable me. Once that miserable meat drops, you will notice that this is living. And this is not. This is the totality.
Rick Archer: As I’ve been saying the totality is lived by virtue of this instrument. And and sometimes the instruments are kind of rusty. In other words, there’s, you know, some people have a lot of emotional baggage, a lot of repressed, you know, traumas and so on and so forth. And even and so, you know, maybe maybe some of that load has to be lightened up. Yes, yes. Some, some spiritual teachers even advocate going and doing some therapy or something just to kind of work out some of this baggage that says, blocking the possibility of this instrument being the reflector of totality.
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely. I agree. 100%, if you have all these packages, and if pain and suffering and all these things is built up in here, you cannot even close your eyes for two seconds, and you cannot even be in it. bubble up zactly bother, definitely go for all those therapies. And I see I say to a lot of people that you really need to go for therapy, before even you come to this path. I say that, I noticed that that level of intense, you know, emotions and feelings and a lot of mental activities. I see the paragraph and paragraph and paragraph the writing. That’s that shows it’s a lot going on in this mind, this character has a lot of things in mind. You need to just go and yes, do all those therapies. But that is not the ultimate awakening that your job
Rick Archer: is you’re kind of a finisher, your job is to deal with that ultimate awakening, and not necessarily to deal with all these things. Oh,
Ellie Roozdar: I know, the root, the root of your inadequacy is because you don’t know who you are.
Rick Archer: Do you feel like you could go into a mental hospital and possibly deal with somebody there and somehow get them? Or do you feel that it would be way premature for anyone like that, and they’ve really got to work through a bunch of stuff before even talking to you?
Ellie Roozdar: I cannot answer I don’t know what comes out of me right now. I have to be in that situation. You see, I cannot project something in the future. What Scott Hall I’m going to do this.
Rick Archer: But in your experience, it really hasn’t been your specialty to deal with people who are deeply troubled. It’s more like people who have kind of done their homework.
Ellie Roozdar: Well, I am not a psychiatrist. I’m not a psychologist. I don’t claim I don’t claim anything. I’m nothing. From this nothingness. I don’t know what comes out of it. All I know is that when I, when I read an email, let’s say they send me an email, I read it. When this person I see this struggling has been there for a long time, so many years of, you know, going to the India coming back and see this, this guru and that Guru, doing all his yoga meditation, this individual and I see the spread, you have to be desperate. Yeah. Just I want to get this information, but I’m going to steal this fear finger or give me some information. No, this part is not that’s why I’m saying these are courage. You need you need to be courageous to jump into what you see as an ultimate truth and claim it. You most of the people, they see it that absolutely they see the truth, but they want to dance around constantly just like a tail chasing again, right around that they want to they don’t want to face it because fixing it is like death is like a suicide. I just said that. That’s why Rumi says they married be married during Age memory. That in a Samadhi Shama Rigpa, Siddhis he says, di di into this love once you die into this love, once and for all, you will be resurrected. So that’s what this thought that’s that’s what he’s talking about. Because this is like death Death to the character this to disbelief, just this little tiny nod There’s this one not in here. That has to be on tie. But you know what the people do they go outside and untie every little knot except this they know everything they know everything about everything Oh the stock market is this and the gold values that they know everything every science and our scientific books they know but then once you come to themselves they don’t know that oh my goodness oh you know which is good. Which is good you this is what you want. This is what I do plays fine. That’s that’s how it is. But this path is not just being officing my feeling oh this is my that is not how it is once you know who you are these feelings are gone. You’re not going to have fear for heaven’s sake never ever fear of what the ultimate fear was death. Wish you you already died. You aren’t sure how many times you die that’s fine. You see Jesus on the stand on the cross. What does that mean? You die and then you resurrect that has to be there though. You cannot resurrect without dying. Dying is the part of it. This art is not easy for everyone. So that is why I’m saying ultimately is the truth decides exactly what I’m going to do in here.
Rick Archer: Yeah when the time is right, yeah, so some teacher gave me the practice of just being a watcher I tried it for about two weeks and it did not work so I dropped it is this a good practice?
Ellie Roozdar: Right? I’m sure you can answer that Eric why now watch your what who’s watching now right? The ego you see the character in this body in the in the finger is watching the other character as to as this is duality already to begin with. So if I practice to be watcher, I am reinforcing what duality because there’s a character is watching now watching everything as separate, everything is separate from me, this is how it looks. This is I am separate. But the watcher, the real observer that we talking about is not watching from here, not from from the finger is watching from reality. So your true watching is rising above this. So that’s why that watching is not working. That’s watching because the character is watching as a person. Yeah. Okay. So if you reinforce that it’s not going to work. I mean, as you see, I get that all the time I practice this to be just observer to that observer that you are is an ego observing is a character observing, not totality observing.
Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s an attempt by the ego to mimic something that sounds like you know, they have a conceptual understanding of this state cannot fake this right right. And there is a state at which you know, there’s this witnessing state which some people naturally live for a while where there seems to be a natural detachment from everything and I am that you know, and everything is detached from me but even that’s not something you do it’s just something which may be that way for a while
Ellie Roozdar: I either I opens up in a symbolic there’s no I in it’s not a practice Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, it’s not a practice this part is not a practice this part was not practice for me practice for me it was just curving down going inside and I just want to know what’s going on with me. Yeah. Because I have so many things going on. That is the practice part and and recognition of the truth that recognition there is the there was a recognition that there is something here as as existence, okay, that happened. But besides beyond that, the rest of this sense of duality, I don’t know how this dropped the duality vision drops um, you see this oneness and that is what I am
Rick Archer: and oneness is not a practice either it’s not like you’re walking around I am oneness and oneness, oh, it’s just
Ellie Roozdar: you cannot fake this is the only thing you cannot fake it and when people are talking, you can tell you can tell is this being is talking from the ear or is talking from the experience? Absolutely. The energy shows people can definitely can see it, okay, you cannot This is not something that you can fake. Because you are that you are claim you are already they already claim that as your identity. So you are that you are it. So you’re you’re talking from it. So again, for example, if somebody and I pass any judgment right now here, oh, you are this and even my close family. My daughter says something. Is that facing me? She defines me as this and that. No, no, I know who I am. I am not the role. I know that for sure. I I’m this so no matter who is say what, I get nice emails, sometimes whatever they comments, either way, doesn’t matter because I know who I am. Right. So as as this, this I don’t even know who this is, this cannot be described this is a mystery. So I am just leaving the mystery that it is, but I cannot describe it. This is always a season as unknown. I am always unknown.
Rick Archer: And you know this thing about not describing it? That’s not so mysterious, either. I mean, try describing the color red, you know, what can you say about it? You know, it’s like, everybody knows what red is? Unless they’re colorblind. But But how can you describe it? It’s just, it’s something that can’t be put into words.
Ellie Roozdar: Exactly. Or you can like say, if someone someone blind right now sitting always blind sitting here, and you try to describe the color red to that blind person who’s never
Rick Archer: seen it and seen it. Yeah. And even if they even if they’re not blind, I mean, there’s certain things you know, I mean, this is sort of purple. How do we describe purple? Well, it’s a little bit like red but but yet, yeah, and things just don’t fit into words.
Ellie Roozdar: And but yet, it’s more obvious thing is it is here. Yeah, the most obvious, permanent existence forever, self illuminating, self loving, peaceful existence that there is, that’s all we can say about it. But you cannot describe this, this cannot be described ever. Please do not. Because my mind was, originally when I this, this discovery was happening. Because we’re just so into trying to describe this to other things like my husband, how this thing is how this thing is, and then this drops, this drop, I know, at the point I noticed that this cannot be described, but you can be it and all those practices, it stops, you know, practice to be unconditional love, this character is practicing of that. I want to be unconditional love. I want to be helping other people I want to I don’t want to judge these practices are all dropped, because you are automatically you see yourself as the source. So the source is not judgmental, like that, it means I see the malfunction, don’t get me wrong, if somebody is acting, you know, like a selfish being, I see that. But I there is no blame in them. That’s that for sure. Because I know where this person is coming from this ignorance is doing ignorance is right here right now. So that is the vision, I just want to see people see, I want to see this analogy is helping people to see the big picture. And all these questions. Or if it comes from the source, he sees how beautiful comes just from the source we talking not from the men to hear from here. So I remember I have to be so you know, compassionate this and that no, but in action, you act like the character when it comes into the action. You know, when it comes to the action, all of a sudden the character because the character is that it functions on the character. But when your identity has shifted to this emptiness to this existence that it is everything arises from this. And two things made very powerful comes here. absolute love and intimacy. And secondly, compassion. Absolutely, absolutely. That’s how it’s
Rick Archer: okay. My heart knows it is the truth. But due to the hardcore non dual teachings, I always get confused on whether a practice leads to realization. If I don’t exist, will these practices reinforce the eye or melt it? one more sentence here in this question. Last four years, I have stopped searching and meditating. Now I feel I am at peace. But I know I have not realized the truth and would love to.
Ellie Roozdar: That’s what it is sent me the answer that pretty much like we did earlier. Yeah, you know, yes, the character starts as it who am I? Okay. And then it curves down, of course. But then that practice is not a practice of how can I say, you know, this naturally, this happens. For me this naturally I curved inside, I went inside. And this happens as a very natural thing is not a doing thing.
Rick Archer: That didn’t happen naturally. But it didn’t reinforce the sense of I either. Do some teachers say that you couldn’t do any sort of practice because it’s going to reinforce the sense of an iron or a practice or, to which I respond well, then you shouldn’t eat because it’s going to reinforce the sense of an eater.
Ellie Roozdar: Exactly, exactly. No, I don’t think that reinforces honestly that yes,
Rick Archer: maybe some practices do but what you were doing doesn’t if it’s natural, if it’s spontaneous, if it’s effortless. It shouldn’t reinforce I think. Absolutely, yeah. Okay. Good. I know that question I’ve read so many books attended many songs, I’ve done so many different yoga and meditation practice for many years, however, I’m still not free. How can I start over?
Ellie Roozdar: All the time I get that. Well, this is very simple. I just want to give you not a prescription again. Okay? The first and foremost, you know, there are so many or when you are in this path, there’s so many quest nonsense questions going on in your head? Who, like I mean, what is my purpose? What is going on? What is this whole life is all about? You those those questions are good and dandy, but there’s one solid gold question that needs to be in the core of your being the moment you be identify with this finger? That question is, who am I? Believe me, that is your core question. Don’t go around, you know, nonsense questions, try to get answers for those. That’s my first and foremost thing to tell you, when you close your eyes as a being just be and and have this core question always in your in your heart, who am I really who am I? I mean, that not that I want to be enlightened, as I want to be alive and I want to know net does not like that, this just who am I? Who am I this this question has to be very authentic coming from the depth of your being. And when you go to the silence, that is the question in behind it behind this whole scene, always. And that once you go into that silence, as I mentioned, Buy and buy, the silence is not a silence disliked silence is pointing towards who you are really, that silence is talking to you. Okay, without any esoteric experience is talking to so you recognize the truth when you go within. And when you recognize that the ego, that character, when it sees that if it’s ready enough, if this character is ready is desperate enough, it has been in this path enough with recognize that as an ultimate truth. And not only recognize that, but it’s going to merge into that. It jumps into that. And when I say jump that’s symbolic, again, that there is no character that idea of you again, it would say yes to this. Yes to this. And that’s the that’s the end of that. So shortcuts if you want to get shortcut like this is not a spiritual pills, you can somebody can give you on your solo and you get enlightened, it doesn’t work like that. Do not waste your time. Just I get people they keep going to this teacher to that teacher to that teacher who is doing that this character is doing that, oh, this teacher doesn’t resonate me. Let me go to the other one who who is doing that this is the character wants to dance around and taste every single teacher who they’re all saying the same thing. I’m basically yeah, basically, but they don’t. Yes, there are some teachers resonate with you. If this resonates you say that. Not to jump from this person to another? You know, because that confuses you. Again, that puts you into another way of thinking because the mind likes that. Don’t you see? The mind likes that kind of a trick? Oh, this person? Okay, I heard all about this one. Let’s go to the other one. Let’s go to the other one. That is not the way to be that’s not going to help you.
Rick Archer: In India, they said they had this analogy. It’s better to dig one well, that’s 100 feet deep than 10 wells that are 10 feet deep. You know?
Ellie Roozdar: Excellent. Excellent. Now, that’s, that’s it, you know, so be honest. And, and, and then this, the last jump is, as I said, is important. You know, so what I do usually with coaching, I see I go down to this detail, and people can see the truth for themselves. And they claim it. But from that point on the the ego part of it by and by sometimes through every experience, that ego would drop that character would drops into the truth as truth. You know, sometimes that’s going to happen. So you’re not going to go discouraged. Once you record I see people awake can fully, fully awaken. I see them they’ve seen the truth. They’re talking to me. But then a week later, she comes back I talked to him on the phone. Oh, my mother was this and my brother was that and then it goes back to the story and the character. The character wants to go back again. To this again, me and my story that happens a lot. So that character has to be so ready. So mature, as I said mature to once it’s recognized it attention automatically comes back home. Doesn’t go back to the word anymore. Okay, that’s very important. That is the maturity that is a mature character, who had enough You know, and once he sees that diamond, he says yes to that.
Rick Archer: Well, that’s kind of what we were talking about in some of those earlier questions is can you, you know, realize the truth and then lose it again, you know. So like you’re saying you could see it and then get caught, caught up back in the story.
Ellie Roozdar: Not once you see, once you see the awareness, that existence in here, there’s a still duality, I see and forget, you
Rick Archer: glimpse it from afar, then you can lose the glimpse. To become that then you can ever not because
Ellie Roozdar: your vision shifted. Once you’re out of this picture, like you are totally, you’re not this thing. You are this totality. Once a vision changes. Yeah, it is no way. You lose yourself. Absolutely no way. You don’t going to lose yourself. You’re not going to practice to be yourself. You don’t want to do your there is no search anymore. You’re not going to have to read any more about yourself. You’re done. You live yourself, you you dance yourself, you smile yourself. You know, that’s what’s that’s what’s gonna happen.
Rick Archer: So this next question kind of relates to what you’re just saying. How do I know that the truth of my nature is the ultimate truth? Seems like people can have a glimpse, and they think, Oh, this is truth, but is it the ultimate truth,
Ellie Roozdar: but because they mature that comes to the maturity of the ego, again, if the character is not mature enough, although it sees that, although it sees that as the truth, but he’s not going to accept that it say, Okay, now that’s I don’t think so. So what I’m gonna go back and search more, see, that ego character has to be mature enough, once it sees the truth, it will recognize that’s why this coaching my coaching offers, that I offer this coach, so that I go step by step coaching people to so that they see the truth. And once they are there, I’m going to be there for them. So that they can see that as an ultimate. I’m not going to let their ego run away. You know, that just big BB stayed together. I want them to have the conviction. Yes, that’s me. Yes, that’s what I am. That is what I am. That is what they repeat that and once you know, so that there is a conviction in there. But if you if you just do it on your own the way this happened here, to me, it was a long path because nobody was helping me. I didn’t have any help. That’s why I’m offering this free health coaching to people this is another teaching, I’m not putting more information to your head to have more information you don’t have enough inform some of the people had a lot of information here, which I rather you didn’t have any of that. You know, if you have all this you can see this. You can’t see this at all. You hardly can feel
Rick Archer: it can’t see the forest for the trees they say
Ellie Roozdar: yes, there’s too much junk in here you know, so yeah, that’s the coaching and it’s just like somebody’s trying to give birth and there’s like midwife sitting right next to this person and helping coaching but real giving birth is yours. I cannot give birth for you okay, that’s that’s how it is coaching is not teaching this is not you are already that what can I teach you that’s why I don’t have classes what can I teach you see this this thing? Like if you know you’re the totality you see everybody else’s totality already but then how can I teach you to be fatality you are already it? Yeah, that’s what to me teaching is first wasting wasting time for me for here I don’t think that’s needed. I cannot help just giving more information to your head adding to to my experience is talking about my if that doesn’t help you what I want I don’t want to waste your time. And I don’t want to waste my time. My time is very precious. So I spent this time for you. If you are ready for this totally And seriously, ultimately you know that this is this is it you’re going to die for this truth. You are ready to die for that. That’s that not offices. Everyone can everyone who comes to this word has a role of demolition that’s what that was that’s what your role is demolition of the character their militia but that’s not that you trying to do that you just attacking them now that’s not what he’s talking about. He’s talking about every being is doing that unconsciously. Unconsciously they’re doing that. Okay, you’re deconstruct and the disruptive cities this mode is teaching you something good happened bad happened good Have you lose some gain? Every you know, peak and valley is teaching you who you are, is taught giving you the message, every experience each each of these fingers are going to have which are so different. Is gonna bring them back to the source is calling them back. But some of them they are ready to come back and job while they are in this body. while they are in the squat, that’s the beauty of heaven on earth. That’s what they talking about heaven is here. Heaven is not something that you die and go to heaven. That’s not how I see it anymore. That word and this word, both of them merges to this to this, that what you are. And that is the ultimate. That’s the ultimate truth.
Rick Archer: Okay, we’re almost at the end of our questions. And, you know, you hear a lot of people these days saying, Oh, I awakened, I had an awakening, and so and so is awakened and so on and so forth. So here’s a question that kind of related that I have, I have been awakened. However, the mind old me is still there. How can I be one with the truth? And I just would add to that, you know, it seems to me that there are many stages of awakening, but many flavors of it, but all these stages and flavors of awakening are not necessarily liberation. And, and, but are often mistaken as liberation.
Ellie Roozdar: Absolutely. Liberation means I see oneness, right. I see me as my wife, just me as this, this is me, and everything is within me. And everything happens in me, not to me, anyone see it as a finger, everything is happening to me. But as totality, everything happening in me, that’s the vision, the ultimate freedom is when you feel that your true essence. And and you know it, for sure, that is what you are. Seeing it and declaring it. Loving it. And living it. That’s that’s the ultimate thing that it comes out of me right now. So that’s what it is. Though, I just want to say something beautiful, just came to me. Rumi says that. They ask him, What is your path? He says, Draw him or each customer that I gotta meet Avani, they may reveal by ganadora. He answers or path is the path of love, and death. If you can die, calm. Otherwise, go. Nice, simple as that. That’s as simple as that.
Rick Archer: So the last three questions could actually be lumped into one question. There are questions about what your teaching is. And you’re you’re referring to a retreat here, like you offer some sort of ultimate truth retreat. And, and and there’s a question about whether there’s a fee for that. So are you going do you teach a retreat in residence? Like, do people come to Long Island and come to a retreat? Or are you just talking about over Skype and explain all that?
Ellie Roozdar: Yes, sure. The retreats, it can be so many ways. Like I have people from, let’s say, from all over the world, they calling me from the bay from UK, if they’re far away, and I’ve I see them ready. We do this to a Skype. So that’s a Skype interaction and phone calls and, and emails and stuff. But if they’re local, definitely, I invite them to be local coming here. And yes, absolutely. I interact them individually want
Rick Archer: to come to your house, or do you sometimes set up a little thing at a retreat center, and everybody comes there. And so
Ellie Roozdar: it’s, it’s very intimate, it’s one to one in my home. And we do going walking meditation, we come sit down together, interact, and that’s what’s happened. That’s what’s gonna happen. And that’s what it is. And the, the interaction over the Skype. I have done it many, many times with people than they know, they know me very well, are very good friends right now. But as I mentioned, first of all, I there is no fee here, because right now, as this totality, I don’t need anything, I don’t need your money, or you give me something, there is no character here who wants to show you the way like somebody is lost, they lost their way, I will just stand there. Okay, in order for me to show which way to go, you have to give me this much money so I can show you the direction. That’s to me, that’s how it doesn’t resonate with me anymore. So I am helping myself, there is only one this is only oneness. So that might mean us as being in two different bodies. And so therefore, I am helping that other body to come up with this to this level. So that is my service towards the humanity and is for free. But what I’m asking to the people because the ego because the character, when it sees the free thing, he thinks that there is no value into that, especially when you see the ultimate truth. You think there is no value for that. So what I’m asking people to do just before I start this walking meditation with you and we go through all this process, I’m going to ask you to give Is any donation that you want to your favorite charity, including Buddha at the Gas Pump, including this because this, this is the way you would get to know who I am. And interacting with me, Rick is kind enough to accommodate this for you. And so therefore, I would highly recommend if you can possibly just make any donation to this site that you found me. And any kind of charities that you like, the highest is the better, because the highest you pay, the more value. You see this is. That’s what it is. That’s how it is. So that is the way I deal with it. And and that’s absolutely I spend every time that you need one step at a time at the time we go. And I’m there with for you to the very, very last step to the ultimate until you see that. Okay, I see people right now I’m I’m interacting people from debate right now. I mean, all of United States, a lot of people, Canada, UK, a lot of people in UK. So yes, absolutely.
Rick Archer: Okay, thank you, Ellie. As far as Buddhists gas pump is concerned, there’s a couple of donate buttons on the upper right hand side of the website, the website being batgap.com. And one of them is for a one time donation. The other is for like a subscription thing where it sends a certain amount every month automatically from your PayPal account. And if a person tries to do that and get stuck, you know, I’ve had a couple of people say they couldn’t figure out Pay Pal and they’ve ended up sending a check. So they can email me and I could give him my address if they want to do that. And all them any money that’s collected as donation has been used so far for like, you know, equipment and hosting fees. And I attended the science and non duality conference out in California last fall. I’m gonna go again this fall and I went on a retreat with Sharon Landreth down in Missouri few weeks ago, and so it’s used for something that stuff that’s directly related to to this.
Ellie Roozdar: So then, click there’s one last thing I want to say. Just came to me again from Rumi, I want to end this
Rick Archer: Rumi quote, oh my god, beautiful to hear you speaking Farsi.
Ellie Roozdar: Yeah, he says, Oh, silly on brown Scissorhands, dish knees, calm with puffy showdown Sukta. He says, My whole life is about only three things. I was unripened. I was ripened. Then I burned out. He’s talking about again, character, start from unripened. And I will be ripened, then I will die. That’s the end of that. So what I’m saying to everyone, my final word, find who you are, as an ultimate truth. Love it, you fall in love with it. Because that’s the only thing that is always here is ultimate, and is always eternal. You fall in love with the eternal. One to do that. Living it is just is going to be such joy. Because every breath is a celebration of you as an ultimate truth, using this body to experience this absolute beauty.
Rick Archer: That’s great. Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you. Very enjoyable. All right, let’s make a couple of quick concluding remarks where you’ve been listening to an interview with Ellie Ruth star. Ellie happens to live on Long Island and which is outside New York City. But she communicates with people all over the world with email and Skype. And if you’d like to get in touch with Ellie, go to batgap.com. And from there, you’ll see a link to her website. And there’s a contact form or contact information on the website. Also at BatGap gmail.com. You will see all the other interviews I’ve done about 120 of them so far. They’re all archived there. And you can subscribe to a little email notification thing so that every time I post a new interview, you’ll get an email about once a week. Also, if you’re just listening to this on YouTube, you can subscribe to the YouTube channel and YouTube will notify you when I post a new interview. Also, you’ll see on BatGap a link to an iTunes podcasts so you can listen to these in audio on your iPod if you wish. Okay, so those are the practical points. Thanks again, Ellie. Thank you. Thank you, Rick pspb Phase Two with you and thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching and we will see you next week.