Anneloes Smitsman Transcript

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Anneloes Smitsman Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually Awakening people. We’ve done about 660 of them now, if this is new to you, and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to And look under the past interviews menu where you’ll see that all previous ones organized in several different ways. It’s actually easier to navigate than the YouTube channel in terms of organization. If you’d like to be notified of future ones, and especially the live stream, but also when we post new ones, subscribe to the channel and click that little bell that pops out when you hit the subscribe button. And also, there’s the upcoming interviews page on BatGap which has the nice little icons in the right hand column. If you click one of those, you can add a notification to your calendar, program, whatever it is about the future live interviews so you can watch them live if you want to. Okay, my guest today is Dr. Anneloes Smitsman. She is a futurist evolutionary systems scientist, coach, healer and award winning Best selling author. She is the founder and CEO of EarthWise Center, which she’ll explain her programs, practices and strategies are sought after around the world for actualizing our future human potential and catalyzing the next step in human consciousness and systemic design for thriveability. She was awarded the visioneers Lifetime Achievement Award in May 2020 22, and was crowned overall African winner in the category human development of the 2022 Africa’s most respected CEOs Awards. She is the co author of the award winning future humans trilogy with Dr. Jean Houston, and a member of the evolutionary leader circle. Here’s a quote that I pulled off her website, I thought I’d read it in each of us already exist, the future potentials of the emerging new era, the next step of human consciousness and the evolution of our species. I am here to help you access and actualize this potential in yourself, your relationships and the systems and cultures, you form part of, to co create and become the world and futures where we can thrive and blossom together. So welcome Anneloes.

Anneloes Smitsman: Good, thank you so much. Great to be with you.

Rick Archer: Welcome. Oh, this is in Mauritius, which is a small island in the way out in the ocean, east of Madagascar? And I guess it is is it in some way considered part of Africa? Because that’s why you got this African Achievement Award.

Anneloes Smitsman: Contract. It’s part of the African region in an Indian Ocean region. Yes.

Rick Archer: Right. Okay. I was looking at pictures of it on the internet yesterday, and it really seems like a kind of a Shangri La, delightful place to live. I’ve always been interested in the future and Futurism and stuff like that I’ve read books about prophecies that ancient cultures, you know, wrote down, and many of which have come true. And I’ve felt since the 70s, that the world is going to undergo some very big changes, and that we’re probably getting close to that I think a lot of people have felt like that. I mean, remember all the fuss that came around, it was 2012. And when there was supposed to be this huge change. And so I think a lot of people with a spiritual orientation and even people in other fields, feel that the pace of change is extremely fast now and you know, accelerating and we don’t know what the world is going to be like in 1020 30 years. And many people feel it’s going to be kind of a hellscape with environmental catastrophe and political strife and all kinds of things. But others feel like okay, it’s gonna get rough, and it’s already rough. But we’re going to get through this and it’s going to be really nice on the other side. So that’s a that’s a brief summation of my sense of, you know, where things are and where they’re going. How does that jibe with with your vision?

Anneloes Smitsman: Well, yes, I mean, this claps I’d like to call about it in terms of two futures, so that there’s a future past which is the result of In many ways of, you know, some really catastrophic actions that we’ve taken as a humanity that is destroying the conditions for planetary well being and health in. So this is kind of the future path that’s now manifesting as, and we, we call that the sustainability crisis. And then the other hand, there is also the potential for an emerging new future and emerging new era. And you could say that, that future really is one that I think that many of the seers and prophets and wisdom keepers of all kinds of cultures of our human family have been talking about for a very long time that there is the opportunity in the midst of so many changes and catalytic changes. That’s also in the collapse and tipping point conditions. Because there is a this you know, structuring decoupling of earlier belief systems earlier worldviews it provides an opening, it provides a portal to truly as a collective give birth, to a higher possibility of what it means to be human on this planet. So that’s also always the one that gives me hope that, despite all the intelligence that we are faced with, and that we need to be very, very aware of, but that you can still get up in the day and say, You know what, this is giving me even more reason, to help co create a world that works to help co create a world in which all of us can thrive together. And that is truly manifesting. Also, our higher possibility of we as a humanity can be,

Rick Archer: in your book, the quest of Rose, which is the first book in the trilogy, the main character rose, you know, got COVID, and she nearly died. And but then she survived. And she came out of it. And it sort of tells the story in the book about how that near death for her was a shifting point, after which all kinds of possibilities opened up for her. And I think it was supposed to symbolize what might be happening to society on a larger scale, and in fact that you can elaborate on this. But as I recall, in the book, you and Jean Houston, who wrote it with you cited examples, or maybe this was in an interview I heard you give of how there were really difficult times in the past and in various cultures like plagues and things like that. And then after that, there was a huge blossoming of culture and science and arts and all that. Do you feel like, you know, this pandemic we’ve been through is something along those lines, and we might be already coming into a blossoming period,

Anneloes Smitsman: not surely yet, in a blossoming I think we are really the pre Renaissance. So it’s like a new emerging resident Renaissance. But we are just prior to those Renaissance conditions. And that’s indeed, we talked about this in the book, and also in the interviews that we could see in the previous Renaissance as well. Just prior to that, we could, you know, a lot of disease, a lot of crisis experiences, but then, again, because probably because of those catalytic conditions, that also started to catalyze an enormous amount of creativity, a way to re envision what it means to be part of this human family that the previous Renaissance, of course, was more oriented around Europe, and it had a huge shadow. And that’s colonialism, that often we forget about. So it may have been really very positive and transformative for people within Europe, but not so elsewhere in the world. And this is why I would like to call about this. And that’s not just asked, but you know, many movements are talking about a new, regenerative, Renaissance and regenerative in the sense that it’s, it’s giving birth again, to, you know, the sense of our humanity. That is not about yet one culture or, you know, society dominating over us, but truly coming into this co creation, collaboration, that’s also part of the maturation of our species. So, indeed, coming back to, you know, rose as the the main character in these of our book, see is in the stories is a woman in her mid 20s. And see her is hospitalized with severe COVID symptoms. And this is really, at the beginning of the crisis, when I myself was actually stuck in the Netherlands and able to return home to my children. I was stuck in for seven months, because all the flights were canceled so that also as kind of background and backdrop, and genome they were you know, every day on the phone and to really Leaving our own personal version of this crisis. And myself also going through the COVID COVID conditions myself. And so rose in that story, or when CIF gets this inkling of, oh, I am dying, my old reality, my old world is dying. And she’s had premonitions and dreams, of always coming at this crossroads, feeling that the route in which she was was coming to a sudden stop. And I think that’s against symbolic what we’re feeling now, a lot of people feeling that their, their lives don’t make sense, the work the way they’ve been, you know, going to work for other people. They feel like what’s the point of that? So it’s this this experience that many people are having that the the old roads are not taking us to the future that is calling us. So in the story, then when Rose realizes that her old life is staying success to the cosmos to the universe, look, I’m so young, really, this can’t be it helped me find the ways to renew myself and to heal myself. And then see slips beyond the veils, how hard stops for a few minutes as he goes through near death experience. And as that happens, see, Dan discovers really the power of conscious choice. And what he discovers in that moment is that every choice that we make is a coordinate of consciousness. So every choice that you make, imagine that we are in this universe of consciousness, this incredible Body of Consciousness, every choice point that we’re making is a coordinate in that body and therefore starts to activate different possibilities. So see, then discovers how her future human choice is really the choice now to start activating like an imaginal, cell. Vusi can be from this new cycle of time, this new emerging era. And what she discovers that the potentials of consciousness in that conscious future human choice of the emerging new era, helps us to kind of enter into where we are now, from a very, very different perspective. So rather than feeling that we are in the midst of the crisis, everything breaking down coming to this stop, you start to see that instead, because we’re coming in from a higher order of possibility, you start to see how to now work and really get creative with everything that’s no longer working in the world, but not from a place of rejection, but rather to get creative, innovative with it. And that is really the catalyst and also for this renaissance period.

Rick Archer: Just about an hour ago, I was washing the dishes and listening to a TV show called 60 minutes, and there was a segment on how teen suicides went way up, or attempted suicides and actual suicides during the pandemic. And that now the pandemic is tapering off. Unfortunately, this trend of teen suicides is not tapering off, then they were saying how the you know, the mental health care systems are overwhelmed, and it takes months to get an appointment and, and all this stuff. So you hear something like that. And if you feel like well, you know, the youth who are really the hope of the future, sound like they’re pretty depressed and discouraged. Do you from your perspective, and all the people you talk to and all the feedback you must have gotten from your books? Do you feel that there’s a lot of people out there who aren’t making the news, who have the opposite of suicidal tendencies? In other words, they’re optimistic and they’re thinking creatively and in new ways. And, and, you know, there’s a real wave of such people that are rising up,

Anneloes Smitsman: yes. But as you’re saying, they’re not making the news, many of them and that that is really unfortunate. So, I mean, I am a mother of two sons, 12 and 14 years old. And indeed, what in what are bombarded with is is all of the crisis news and too little of the creative and innovative capacities and also, to literal minus that. Look, as a humanity we have faced very, very difficult times, it’s not the first time that we are in the midst of a crisis, what I think is new now is that the way that we can also communicate, be conscious about it. And of course, you know, we’ve never ourselves as a species been destroying the planetary conditions for us to live. Yeah, I mean, that is just an untold an unheard of but, but I think that the teenagers and you know, you’ve also the children, but we need to share with them. It’s not that oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. You know, we’re burdening you with this almost a livable planet so that they’re feeling well. Okay, great. What are we going to do about this now and So falling on our shoulders and, you know, it’s all going to waste. And so that’s the kind of sentiment that many are having. But rather to saying this is an unprecedented time, for the very first time ever, we can actually be in conversation about this, for the very first time ever, we can learn about what’s happening, here are issues you are in the United States. And we have more power as people than we may realize. We have also the power to create new different economic and political systems to create new constitutions to really let our voices be heard. So I feel that I’ve done a lot of work in curriculum development, for example. And there, I started with that on the narrative of sustainable development. And that doesn’t really inspire a lot of youth. But if it’s talking about Thrive, education, you know, regenerative education, transformative education, and actually asking you, what future do you want, what future lives in you, our member, one of us here in Mauritius doing this process of dialogues, which you’ve all over the island and ask them, What future is alive in your mind, when you close your eyes at night, you know, what future calls you forward? What motivates you to, to, to get up in the morning and to develop yourself? Many, many of these young people told me, nobody’s ever asked me that. Nobody’s ever asked me, they’ve always only just told me do this. So you succeed to that. So you can have a job, and all the shoots all the masks. So it’s really important we are engaging the creativity of, of young people. And, you know, whenever you engage a person’s creativity, you engage life inside that person, when you engage life inside the person. That’s future. That to me is what future is, the depth of creativity is the depth of futures.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s a very good point. There’s a, there’s a kind of a competition in a way because, in a sense, we need routine work. And we need systematic repetitive things in order to produce stuff in order to accomplish a lot of things. We can’t reinvent the wheel every day. But on the other hand, that routine kind of kills the genius and people, you know, it dampens their creativity. So you know, somehow we have to find a balance where there can, you know, if we have to do things somewhat repetitively, we can and yet, at the same time be awakening our inner creativity and not have the to clash with one another.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes, and even more. So. Bring your consciousness into routine. So for example, I have a washing machine, dish washing machine, but I choose not to use it. I’m renting a place and it’s part of the rental. And I say, so here’s a dishwashing machine. So when I’m doing the dishes, which is terribly repetitive, right, and make a little ritual out of that, for example, as I’m scrubbing the plates, I can add the intention that I’m purifying certain aspects of my life, you know, I can say, I’m washing away all the worries and the sorrows and the heaviness. So it’s like, I can project my life onto the dishes. And then as I’m doing the act of cleaning the dishes, I’m cleaning an aspect of my life. So you can get creative with that. Or sometimes I can write, just working with a movement of repetition that your body is, you know, an automatic pilot doing, say, for example, the dishes or something else, that you can also use it as a meditative moments actually, to let your mind just zoom out and space out. So what’s really important is intentionality. So wherever you bring your intentionality, that’s, again, you’re engaged in consciousness, you’re activating consciousness inside you. And that means you are activating life, life potential inside you. And that way, is rather than becoming the repetition and the repetition, just going habitual, you’re working now consciously but structures in a in a way that actually helps you to develop yourself helps you to develop your concentration for a long time, I was trained as a pianist. And when you when you want to learn the piano, it’s incredibly repetitive, but you have to do the scaling. And that’s possible you go. But what I noticed is if I am not aware of what I’m doing, so if I’m going into repetition during the skill, just to you know, to make it go past, my muscles are actually not learning anything in that moment. But if I’m putting my my consciousness, my awareness, my mind fully into it, and I’m doing the same skill and saying, I’m doing it five times, but I hold the intention that I’m doing it Every five times it’s slightly different. Just a slight difference in touch intonation wherever I put the accents. Now my whole body mind is engaged, and then I’m learning. And then you actually need far less time on the repetitive movements than if we are just falling asleep with it and not existing in those moments in a conscious way.

Rick Archer: That’s great. Sounds like mindfulness, aerial, practical application of mindfulness. Yeah, obviously, you know, so many people are not mindful. You see these things on TV, have people walking into trees while they’re looking at their phone. And there’s so much coming at us these days in the world. bombarded you know, with information, yes. So, and I kind of enjoy it. I mean, I’m a bit of an information junkie, myself, and just always sort of, you know, taking things in, but I also meditate a few hours a day, and somehow I strike a balance between what, or did you want to come in? And then I have another question. If you don’t know, it’s okay. You continue? Yeah. Well, I was wondering, when you went around Mauritius and interviewed all these kids about what gets him out of bed in the morning. And they were like, surprised that anyone was asking him that. What did you find that, you know, what kind of answers did they give?

Anneloes Smitsman: Some were very sad, somewhat. We’re, for example, saying in the future that I want. Mum and Dad and not fighting at night, or dad is not coming home drunk, I am safe. I mean, these were children that came from very difficult households. And actually, and then work with them to draw them out to make little drawings and paintings, which was somewhat even so difficult to talk about that. So all of them were actually in these kids somehow talking about a future in which it was safe to be a child. It was safe to play. There was less violence. Me nature was green again. The island was clean, the Turtles were not dying, because it was not swallowing the plastic. And most of all, you know, people were not arguing people were not fighting and so that when I did those dialogues with the kids, that’s when I realized, whoa, have internalized violence. probably much more than we realize that because we’re not even talking about the violence of, or I’m not watching a TV game or something with minus nobody’s talking about. It’s safe for me to be a kid. I can play outside. And you know, and be safe. I can I can be a child’s Yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. As you ponder the future, and you’ve been doing that for a long time now, yes. Do you have some kind of a timeline? And do you have like multiple scenarios that could play out? Like, you know, Dwayne, Elgin is? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I’ve interviewed him a couple of times. And in the most recent one, we talked about his new book, choosing Earth. And there was a little video that we played, in which he outlined three different types of scenarios that he envisioned, one would be that everything is going to collapse and just become totally chaotic and stay that way for a long time. Another was that everything is going to collapse. And then there’ll be some kind of Chinese style, artificial intelligence controlled society all over the world. And then the third one is that everything’s going to collapse, all three of them involve collapse, everything’s going to collapse. But then there’s this spiritual undercurrent that’s going along, that’s going to, you know, lift everything up again, and we’ll end up in a much, you know, more enlightened world. So, you know, if you were to draw timelines like that, Would you concur with Dwayne’s? Or do you have your own vision of the possibilities?

Anneloes Smitsman: Are there are alignments on some aspects? So when let’s first talk about the planetary conditions, of course. So the timeline is what what you’re seeing, and this has been a process again, long, long in the making, and that we’re seeing manifests So with regards to the climate and biodiversity crisis. And now sharing this more also, from a system science perspective. There is all there is a delay in the system. There’s a catching up of the system in Not, not in a good way. What we’re seeing now is that especially this year, we really have entered this tipping point in time. So you’re seeing escalation events, for example, more assets also melting around the poles and elsewhere. Yeah, blast reflection, capacity of the planet. So you’re seeing that, you know, the warming is getting worse. The climate extremes are getting worse. We’re having one of the worst droughts and Heat waves in Europe, for example, in the United States as well. So we’re seeing more of more of those extremes that are, I mean, really, really bring it home to people now that this is serious, you know, the climate crisis is is a reality. And it’s a huge, huge wake up call. However, I’d like to, you know, put their emphasize as well, we do not yet know how mother f is going to balance herself. It’s nice, he’s running a huge fever, very small changes in temperatures can have major effects and all of her ecosystems, and of course, her lungs are planetary, Oregon’s the oceans is in a very, very bad state with, you know, at least 80% some of some marine scientists are saying is, is that, you know, there’s now that the risk of the ocean becoming a what we call an ultimate sense. So that all of that matter in at the bottom of the ocean, once that starts. So that’s not a good news story. And so that’s what I think right now, John is also talking about the this collapse scenarios, that’s not pessimistic thinking is what you know, we need to get realistic about ecosystemic changes have been set in motions as a result of human action. So fossil fuel based industry, then, of course, also, the cause is not an emission story, only the biodiversity damaged more than 60% of our species that have gone extinct in the last 50 years, as a result of kind of human action. So all of that is, is really bringing home that we need to radically shift the ways that we are growing and developing our societies, and everybody is impacted, there isn’t a place on this planet that is not impacted. With this is where I want to again, emphasize the however, one is we don’t know how mother earth is going to balance herself. And she has, I have faith in the planet of having a an incredible regenerative healing capacity as well. But we need to work with her roommate to make it possible for her problem is that some of those changes are happening so quick that like, for example, many of the crops, they just can’t adjust so quickly to the climatic changes, which is putting pressures on our food security, etc. So that’s the balancing aspect. How is mother Afghan to balance itself? How is he going to heal herself? It’s happening. But now the next aspect is, look, our human consciousness is part of the planetary consciousness. So what is that doing to the human psyche as well, and this is again, where I think it’s really important that as a humanity, we become really aware and conscious. And rather than taking it into it in depression, and going on a suicide mission, the way I see this trajectory of our evolutionary development now let’s just take a really, really big perspective here. If we’re looking at the evolution of species, and this is not just for the human species, we can see the same pattern for the species. If a species grows in complexity, so it can grow in complexity because it becomes more diverse or becomes greater in size and greater impact. But so as a humanity, in the beginning of 1800s, we were only with 1 billion people. Look now where we are we are with was it 7.6 billion people we are heading towards, right by 2050. We are heading towards 9 billion people. So I think

Rick Archer: we’re already at eight, I heard that we

Anneloes Smitsman: already have eight. Oh, there you go. It’s incredible. So we adding 7 billion people in such a short period of time on this planet, in addition to the ways that we are we are living and we are growing. So what’s important to put to emphasize here is every species when it grows so much more complex, doesn’t take its next step in evolutionary development. And evolutionary development means that that species, rather than killing each other for resources, rather than competing each other for resources, learns to collaborate for resources. Alas, Elizabeth to tourists and amazing evolutionary biologists, as he’s written a lot about that. So if we don’t take that step, but we see what species they start to is a different pattern that activates and that’s the pattern of self destruction. So we could say that in some ways, if we’re looking at all the violence, all the divisions that shootings that it might well be that the self destruct pattern has already started to activate. So it’s like we are now seeing all these different scenarios playing out so we have some human beings fully trapped into this self destruct pattern. So that’s the trajectory. So they’re kind of on that collapse trajectory, self destruction still wanting to ride out that domination, but yet we have also a growing number of people who are saying no, no, no, that is not my identity, that is not my humanity. And, and they are deciding they are part of that maturation, deciding on purpose intentionally, and also systemically now to collaborate and to co create and to coordinate resources. And truly working on different economic systems, different ecological systems, different political systems, social systems. And what I’ve seen in in that part of the narrative is that group of people is growing stronger, and it’s starting to coordinate. And it’s becoming coherent in amazing ways. I mean, I’ve been part of these experiments of these new systems for the last two decades, what I’m seeing the last two years in the way that this is picking up and the way that we can talk about it in the mainstream, even my own PhD research, which was at a very conventional University in the Netherlands, Maastricht University, what I could talk about, and research into the heart of systems change would have been unheard of even a decade ago. So that trajectory to me is not a trajectory of while we’re trying to still keep our head above the water despite the collapse. No, it’s actually a new pattern, it’s emerging your pattern and it’s emerging new narrative. And I see that trajectory, not so much of a KB of either really bad collapse, kind of middle way collapse. And then maybe, you know, it’s still coming out. But no, I’m seeing that scenario, of this emerging new precedent of the maturation of our species, I’m seeing that activating from the future and reaching us into the now. So it’s like it’s doing this. So we have to collapse scenarios, in different degrees. That’s that past future, again, some really, really bad, some perhaps, you know, still manageable. And then we could say, perhaps fairly livable. But as this these are these future scenarios, of who we are choosing to become a what people actually experiencing, in their hearts in their dreams of something else that’s calling them forth. And that is not just, you know, a nice spiritual vision, wonderful values, but with no grounding, I’m talking about real pioneering work that’s happening. And that’s what I’m seeing is that that’s picking that speaking up. And that’s touching base on that collapse scenario. And my my own intuitive sense about is, is let’s take that middle weight of middle scenario of collapse, when this pathway from the future into now of the next step of our maturation, and that becomes coherent. Now this starts to serve as an attractor, and it can actually lift that whole collapse scenario up and form the critical bridge that we need to create in order not to go extinct as a species.

Rick Archer: That’s really good. It’s very encouraging, actually, like, when you first started talking, you said, Well, how is Mother Earth going to rebalance herself? And my first thought was she she just has to get rid of us? Because we’re the ones who are throwing it out of balance, you know? And, but, you know, it would be nice if we could cooperate with Mother Earth, Mother Nature and stick around. Yeah. Because it’s kind of a, I think, rare to have such a beautiful, habitable planet. I mean, we haven’t found any other ones yet, although I’m sure they’re out there. But they’re not just like, you know, really common. And this shame if we as Buckminster Fuller used to call it Spaceship Earth. Exactly. Yeah. So and obviously. Yeah. But it’s a fascinating thing that you just explained, because obviously, we can see the destructive thing happening, like you said, the heat waves, like right now the whole western United States is over 100 degrees, which is up around 40 degrees centigrade, and you know, fires and and such droughts that the reservoirs are practically empty and all this stuff, what’s gonna happen, and you know, like, Pakistan totally flooded, about a third of the country is flooded. And one in seven people in the country is homeless right now, that’s out of millions of people. So I mean, we can go on and on with examples like that. So you look at that you think, Oh, we’re screwed, you know, this is really dire. And how’s it possibly going to turn around and you know, people like Greta Thun Berg had been Al Gore before her and I’ve been warning us about tipping points and now we’re reaching Yes, greater and greater. Yeah. Today. But but, you know, I’ve always had this optimistic thing going on, which is that, you know, there’s this much subtler, but actually much more powerful awakening taking place all over the world, awakening of consciousness, and you just really explained very nicely how it’s not just a sort of a beautiful, subjective experience, but it’s, it’s manifesting as practical steps that people are taking to turn things around. So yes, it’s hopeful.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes. And remember, when you have all these climate extremes, let’s talk about heat right now. Heat in a system that is not coherent, becomes destructive, yes, that’s so great, because it’s a lot of added energy. And the energy now is not embodied in a system. So it starts to go haywire. However, heat in a system that is coherent, can actually help lift that consciousness.

Rick Archer: Can you give us an example of such a system?

Anneloes Smitsman: Well take your own body, for example. So say to a yogi, one who has practice really working with that inner fire, doesn’t collapse in a FIFA, but takes that heat now, to go into a, an enlightened state of consciousness. So this Yogi would have practiced at a very, very long time, we have hardly, in my opinion, began to work with all of that trapped heat. We have not gotten really creative since that we are trying to control the situation, you have to have no control to manage it to fight this. So first, it was the war on on COVID, then it’s the war on climate change. No, that’s not that’s not gonna help us. We need to find ways actually, of how can we really now work? With all of that fire is in alchemy, it’s the resources you need for transformation.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So we work with trapped heat. But we were just talking about the heat waves in Europe in the United States and India had a really bad one earlier this year. Are you literally talking about that heat, kind of harnessing it somehow? Or are you speaking more metaphorically,

Anneloes Smitsman: both. So both are technologies in which we can be developing and working with all of that hate rather than trying to find it? What are ways to work? So I think that we are at the forefront talking about the Renaissance again, of whole new technologies, also whole new developments that we hardly began to imagine. But and that there needs to be also market support for but at the same time, it’s also about our consciousness, we have not really as a humanity tapped truly the powers of our consciousness. I’ve always had a lot of respect for Australian Aborigines, I lived for eight years in Australia, and the conditions that they’re we’re able to live in, even in desert conditions, but astonishing. I know that’s a fire call, everyone that wants to become a yogi in order to work with climate change. But when you’re impacted by that heat, if you don’t know how to harness it, and work with it, heat can otherwise also, in our own mental health conditions, lead to more violence, more depression, more agitation, in sleeplessness so, it’s also we as a humanity have to adapt to these changing conditions in rapid ways. And just taking it out being angry with the state of the world being angry and upset that the old normal is not gone, that’s not going to help us. So to me, it’s also about seeing a call of learned to adapt where you can and mitigate, also, of course, the conditions where you can but again, get creative with this. And I really don’t think that we have tapped fully into the power of our collective consciousness. And what a collective coherent humanity, how that’s related. Also, I might be interacting with the planetary consciousness. And May these are might be the some of the new consciousness technologies and not have met, and the global coherence research and they were doing fascinating research on this as well, to seeing what what can happens in these pockets of coherence. So just putting that out there and some other ways to get creative to start thinking about, you know, we are not separate from the planet. And yeah,

Rick Archer: yeah, yeah. You just mentioned HeartMath. Who would want to make sure people heard that word? Yes. Yeah, on the one hand, I mean, there are certain temperatures above which people cannot live in their, you know, 125 degrees or so and cities which are reaching those temperatures now and, you know, the only way you can live is to have air conditioning, but then that creates more greenhouse gases. puts more strain on the electrical grid. But I wouldn’t go into all those pessimistic reflections. But, but there are actually some really cool inventions coming up. There’s this, like, I just read this article about the 17 year old kid that’s developed an electric engine that doesn’t require all the really rare metals like lithium and all and which are environmentally damaging to mine, and could be, you know, manufactured much more cheaply, and it’s efficient and a 17 year old kid. And there are other things like that, where people are just coming up with these, these really interesting inventions. And so that’s a perhaps an example of a rise in consciousness that’s taking place that’s written in, it’s not that this kid is a meditator, or, you know, interested in consciousness. But, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. And so if world consciousness is somehow rising, then people are going to pop up here, and they’re having all these great ideas, and be able to put them into action.

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s it. And then that’s what I mentioned about coherence. Now, I mentioned this kid, learning about another child somewhere else, or teenage and somewhere else. And now, that becomes a coherent pattern of collaboration, of sharing of helping each other to develop these new technologies, getting all that creativity together. Yeah, that’s what I mean. So that there is also an incredible opportunity. I mean, the way I like to work with this sometimes is it’s almost like taking a long, long perspective. Imagine me at the end of this century, who are who have we become as a result of this process from the people who are left behind them here, in the Khanfar planet? How are they telling the story about this time right now? Putting ourselves as a future ancestor?

Rick Archer: How would okay, do that? Put yourself there, how would you tell the story?

Anneloes Smitsman: All of us let’s do that. Now all of you who are listening as well just really like you to imagine yourself now. After the after the big shifts after the big change after the emerging new era after this also the collapse of so many different systems. So imagine right now, we’ve made it through with minor through, we may not be any more with 9 billion people that will be far less of us. Yes. Well, imagine now what what we have learned, we have become as people. And now imagine for a moment that we’ve come to finally finally appreciate our planet for Whoo, see, truly Yes. And remember that we can’t do it without her we are we are part of her being we are part of her consciousness. Now imagine that we’re able to see and hear and experience and feed each other in ways that technology was alienating us from now, imagine now that we have really learned to live with nature to design, our houses, our cities. With drinkable water, the rivers have become drinkable water, that the air itself is fully honored everywhere. So imagine now that we’ve we’ve truly become like a living cell. In this beautiful planetary consciousness, we as a species, have actually become planetary conscious. And the collective consciousness is able to become conscious of itself and the human experience. We are also honoring, and grieving the collapse and the death of so much, but what we are seeing now, you know, at the end of the century, we’ve seen life return in places where we never thought it was possible, which we’ve seen. The oceans been healing themselves. If we realized as long as we’ve been creating the conditions for life to renew itself, it us, it us, we see nature popping up in places where we never imagined this possible. We’ve seen whole fields of life come back alive. And we realize now that the power of life really should have been at the center of everything that we’ve always been doing. We’ve really become a new species, different species.

Rick Archer: That’s beautiful. And you know, there’s there’s some nice examples of nature coming back very quickly when it’s given the chance. For instance, in Yellowstone National Park at one point, all the wolves were killed because it was thought that Oh, wolves are bad, and and it really messed up the ecosystem. And then at a certain point, they realized, well, wolves belong here. So they started reintroducing wolves, and it resulted in this flourishing of the ecosystems and streams and other kinds about animals and everything, like a lot of things that had been going downhill revived fairly quickly. I don’t know. That’s just one example. I’m sure there are many others. As you were speaking, and I was thinking, well, people might be listening to that and thinking, Well, that sounds nice. But it’s so pie in the sky. It’s very idealistic. And but then I thought, well, it’s good to have a vision like that. I mean, you might think you’re being realistic by thinking that we’re going to be living in a dystopian world, you know, 50 or 80 years from now. But actually, if we envision a more heavenly world, will probably stand a better chance of creating it.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes. Look at all of the inventions that we have. Somebody thought about that. I said, Well, why not? Why not? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Because you see this, this collapse scenario? You can’t change that by just agreeing with it. Or just going going, Yeah, going down into into effect, it actually will make things much worse. Because if people just believe in well, it’s a done deal. There’s nothing much that we can do about it. That’s that’s not true.

Rick Archer: And defeat is then, you know, yes, give us

Anneloes Smitsman: and also, what I often like to remind people of I know, globally, they’re still talking about let’s cap it at 1.5 degrees. But we know, of course, with the science that we are already heading. Far, far more Yeah. And that even with delays in the system, two degrees, warming is practically guaranteed. But however, every action is required now to make sure we’re not escalating to through three or four degrees, everything that we’re doing, everything that we’re doing today will make a difference between me taking those worse collapse scenarios are we are we going to have to adapt to life on on planet earth here, that worst scenario, or that middle one, or a little bit higher one. So it’s really important to remember that, that all the emissions that we’re putting out every single day, by the way that we live, by the way that we produce, by the way that we consume is adding to one of those scenarios. So right now we have to prevent at all costs, that we are escalating towards three or four degrees, warming that is in our power to stop, that is an option. And it’s our responsibility to stop that it’s actually now thankfully, countries are recognizing some of them that it’s a constitutional responsibility to stop to stop that, at all costs, maybe owe that to the future generations as well as our ancestors look at. But so many of our ancestors have given for us to have this opportunity of being human.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah, I guess the, what comes to my mind is that, unfortunately, a lot of people won’t change unless they’re forced to. And, and then they else or less, they’re offered some alternatives that so much better than than what they have. So for instance, you know, we talked about phasing out coal in the United States, and then people, you know, the politicians start screaming about the coal miners losing their jobs. And so then nothing happens or, but But if, you know, if the coal miners could be offered a much better job, that paid better, and that didn’t require being underground all day, you know, like maybe building wind turbines or solar panels or something like that, then okay, that sounds better. I won’t get black lung disease, and I’m earning twice as much money and, you know, but unfortunately, again, it still seems that, you know, very often people have to have their their town burned down, or their, you know, their or get flooded out before they really take it seriously. And a lot of us at least I don’t know about Europe, and in the US, a lot of politicians still deny that, that climate change is a problem. Are the bits caused by sunspots, maybe or we can’t do anything about it. Let’s

Anneloes Smitsman: blame it on something else. Surely humans have nothing to do with that. So as usual,

Rick Archer: yeah, there’s people you can see websites where they’re arguing that it’s not caused by humans. Yeah, you can also see websites that argue that the earth is flat. So

Anneloes Smitsman: yes, exactly. And often when you bring down the narrative, it’s quite easy to debunk a lot of those stories, you know, say oh, goodness, no, no, no warming in the atmosphere. And I have to ask them, Where are you measuring higher? Pablo?

Rick Archer: Yeah. One time there was just a few years ago, there was a snowstorm in Washington DC and one of the congressmen came in with a snowball and said look car global warming What a joke there’s a here’s snowball.

Anneloes Smitsman: And that’s, that’s that’s where I mean, climate scientists got, frankly a bit smarter about the narrative. But the first symptom of climate change is not global warming, but climate extremes. Weathering readings. Yes. So you have extreme cold periods as well as extreme heat. So anybody was saying, Where are you saying, you know, global warming? So there’s no climate change? No. The fact that you have a snowball at a very old time was actually a sign that, you know, of climate change. But yes, you know, going back, of course, also, to your earlier point, how, what is it about human behavior that unless we are forced to change very often we don’t, yeah. And then I come back again, also to the maturation of our species and good leadership. And I think there’s a lot of very bad leadership. And that is, we really need very, you know, future forward thinking transformative evolutionary leadership right now, but also for people, people become very lazy, if I may say, so, you know, it’s like the, we’ve had this kind of lazy attitude towards democracy, oh, I’m going to ever even vote vote for somebody, and then that’s their responsibility to take care of. So we’ve externalized so many things that this person will fix that that person will fix that, that technology will do that, well, maybe there’s a deeper wisdom and what comes crashing down right now, perhaps all this externalization all this subcontracting out, has made us poorer inside as people. And right now, as we are realizing that the way that we’ve externalized, all of that and outsource all that isn’t working. It’s it’s making a sluggish for the change. It’s making asleep hardrick. It’s is putting us to sleep like a frog that’s being walked very, very slowly, and I won’t jump. Yeah. So another way to look at that is that life is saying, wake up, reclaim your power. Remember, again, your powers as human beings. You can make the change, but it’s about starting from within systems change begins within. So yeah, deeper wisdom in here. And, yeah, that’s where I put my trust.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that I guess, you know, you could you could view the climate catastrophes that are happening as wakeup calls. Kind of like the, you know, the Old Testament where, you know, the pharaoh wouldn’t listen and so, okay, now have frogs and Okay, now have locusts. Okay, now, you know, all these kids are gonna die. Yeah, until they finally say, all right. All right, I got it. But, um, but I don’t know, it’s like, well, harkening back to what you were saying earlier about Mother Earth, and how she got to rebalance. You know, it’s all this stuff that’s happening to me is, it’s a wake up call. So the dire circumstances, and you know, people are seeing it on the news, even if it’s not impacting them directly. And I don’t know, it seems like it’s maybe you know, better than I, but it seems like it’s getting through to people and laws are changing, and policies are changing. Like in California, for instance, they said, okay, but after 2035, no more internal combustion engine cars can be sold here. And and now 17. Other states are saying the same, you know, considering the same thing. And so, you know, slowly but surely. And, you know, in case people are wondering, what does this conversation have to do with spiritual development? Because that’s what this show is about? Yes, I It’s kind of implicit in what we’re saying. But maybe we should make it more explicit. But I really feel like the, you know, spiritual development of humanity is an extrovert credibly linked with the environment, this society at large, everything that’s happening is a symptom of our collective consciousness. And, you know, we need to do things on all levels to solve problems. But if we don’t raise our collective consciousness by having enough of us raise our individual consciousness, no matter what we try to do on more manifest levels, we won’t be successful.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes. And another thing is that the way to raise consciousness, it’s not just about sitting in meditation and going oh, no, nothing is affecting me. Right? That can really take you into a trip right? Taking. raising consciousness can also mean begin with your own household. What appliances are you using? What is your emissions? What’s the ecological footprint of your own life? Yeah. What are you What are you doing for the planet? How are you greeting the birds? I How are you making life possible in your own little garden? How are you into if you’re leaving, say, for example, in apartments? Could you at least put some plants? Now, how are you bringing nature back into your life? What are you doing? Also for nature? Where are you putting your throat? How are you voting with your money with your wallet? You know, what are you supporting? What questions are you asking in areas where there is human rights violation nature, right violations, how are you raising your voice, how you being an advocate for the change. So I think this is really also the time and this is also where I think a lot of women are at the forefront of this is about you want to raise consciousness, put it into action, be the change that we wish to see, this is no longer just a time about seeking some form of Enlightenment, out and away from the planet. It’s about embodiment, really embody your soul potential, what it means to, to be that that spirit and physical form. And to me, spirituality is also about really understanding that the fundamental unity of life, that life is interdependent. And that means that we’re all in it. We’re all of this going through this change together. And we need everyone on board to help create a Livable Future. We’ve been manifesting, in many ways and unconsciously a lot of patterns that perhaps many people on their own, didn’t want to I never thought that would even be possible. But we are with so many. And then the cumulative effects. But I really feel that it’s about bringing the spirituality back here, into your heart into your hands into your feet, walk the path, be the path, be the change, be the systems that make life possible.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, it’s what you said about, you know, people just sort of meditating going off into their own little dream bubble of bliss and ignoring the world there. Obviously, that is a syndrome in many cases, but I don’t think it really represents the full blossoming of spirituality that some of the greatest spiritual leaders have exemplified. And, and recommended, I mean, you see people like Mahatma Gandhi or Sri Aurobindo, or, I don’t know, Jesus, who were very concerned about what was happening to people and whether they were being fed and whether they had their, you know, rights and, and things like that. They weren’t content to just marinate in their inner bliss. And, you know, personally, personally, I think that Enlightenment, whatever we want, whatever word we want to use, is a holistic development that doesn’t just involve a nice subjective experience, but that is fully integrated with an enriching of all of the manifest or expressed values of life. So really, really one big while you’re talking about becoming a future human, to me, a future human is somebody who is fully developed. And you could say, 100%, material 100%. Spiritual, yes,

Anneloes Smitsman: yes. And going, if we now marry that, with what some of the, you know, groundbreaking new insights from a new paradigm in science and consciousness, what research is showing is that matter itself, is a form of consciousness. So that the old divide between Okay, we have matter, and we have spirit that that’s falling away. There’s a whole new understanding of matter. And this is, I think, that when we really dive into that really understanding that matter itself is a particular state of consciousness. Yeah. Then we go deeper into the cosmological, architectural, informational architecture. And then we find the ways now to truly create economic, political, social systems that by design, are transformative, that are coded for the evolutionary process. You know, to me, that is the future that I wake up for, which I’ve, I’ve always felt and Sans, it’s in such precision and detail is, is really possible is when I think of the end of this century, that is what I’m experiencing. And that is not fake. It’s really as I sat as really precise and detailed, for example, I’ve been applying that in seeds constitution. So as a whole Constitution, with algorithms with digital currencies with hundreds and hundreds of people around the world. That’s a global platform for creating new regenerative economic and financial systems. And when you’re working on that, from that vision from that future human potential, it is amazing the detail In which, when you’re working with living systems, this actually shows itself of, you know what to emphasize what feedback loop to create what algorithm to create, and to make visible. Not for a long time, people thought, oh, that spirituality out there. So it’s about to me, it’s about finding this spirit in matter, in the very heart of matter. When you find that there, that whole duality, that whole division falls away. I mean, you really are then operating from a completely different paradigm and a different possibility that that’s what I feel we are at the forefront of, and that is what’s being accelerated, because we have to every, every don’t take that step. Well, how do we, you know, I’m done. He will say, look, humanity, interesting experiment. But guess what, you’re not graduating,

Rick Archer: and let’s try. Yeah, that’s very interesting. I have an ongoing debate with a group of friends who, you know, some of them are on my side, some of them are on the side of consciousness is just produced by the brain, and you don’t survive physical death. And there’s no such thing as reincarnation, and all kinds of things like that. And, you know, I, I’m seeing it from the flip side is that, you know, like you just said, matter is consciousness, you know, kind of accreted or precipitated into apparent physical form. And I think that the fact that this materialist paradigm has been so predominant, could be blamed, we could attribute to that all the mess that the world is in, you know, because if we see the world as dumb stuff, what does it matter what you do to dumb stuff, it’s dumb, doesn’t know. But if we see everything is imbued with consciousness with intelligence with life, then you know, Whatsoever you do unto the least of these do unto me, in other words, you just become acutely sensitive to the, the aliveness of every little thing. And you know, you would know more harm than you would, you know, slice your own hand or something.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes. And an addition to that, and this, I find really exciting for human development, when you become aware of this consciousness as a field, and how your unconsciousness is part of that, and how consciousness is fundamental, what happens is now that instead of operating from your own little human intelligence system, you learn to actually extend your human capacities with the fields of consciousness around you, and living systems. So now what you have available to your capacity is so much more.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I used to be in the TM movement, you know, and we used to have these, these campaigns where we would go to a plant, like I spent three months in Iran, just before the revolution, and we were attempting to sort of enliven the field of consciousness in that area, or in various other places people went so that they didn’t have to be outright warfare, that somehow transitions could be, you know, lubricated, and more smooth, and there was a lot of research on it, and they did find that the, you know, presence or absence of these groups had a measurable impact on, you know, various social indicators and war deaths, and, and all kinds of things like that. So the idea of consciousness is a field as as a field is very exciting. And I was thinking of that earlier when you were speaking and you know, Rupert Sheldrake, some Morphogenetic Field ideas and, and how very often good ideas come popping up simultaneously in various people who had no communication with one another, because that idea was lively in the field and ready to ready to pop.

Anneloes Smitsman: And that’s right. Again, here, this is what all of us who are listening here participating in this conversation, you are part of the maturation of the field dynamics that make new innovations, new technologies, new ways that you know, life centered ways possible. And it’s Yeah.

Rick Archer: It’s so important this field idea, we should emphasize it because yes, if there if consciousness were not a field, and if you know, we only communicate by, you know, sending emails or watching the news and stuff like that everything is just so fragmented and disconnected. But if consciousness is a field, then again, it’s like rising tide lifts all boats, there’s a field that permeates the whole world that is rising, and it’s going to lift everyone I mean, if a boat insists upon keeping itself anchored to the bottom, the bookmaker may capsize because the water is gonna go. But if they’re willing to rise, the whole world could be uplifted in Yes, in a way that we don’t anticipate, or most people don’t.

Anneloes Smitsman: And that’s another. I mean, my research has been for a long time and living systems yet that’s also On my PhD research, what I find fascinating is that when there is damage or harm in a living system, at the same time, there’s an imaginal influx of consciousness that comes forth within the system that is essential for its capacity to renew and to evolve, which is again about understanding the field dynamics. So also, again, if we are capturing that imaginal capacity of life itself, that’s in flux, I mean, look at your say that your injuries are part of your skin on your on your hands, that your body is actively sending all this intelligence forward here to heal and repair itself. Yeah. So there is a lot of, there’s a lot of damage to the planet. But what we are not seeing because it’s invisible to so many is how live in its living systems ecosystems is regrouping, reorganizing itself, and how there is an influx of imaginal capacity at that time, hence, also the Renaissance envies increased dreams, visions, inspirations, that is part of life’s response, to renew itself, and to heal itself from the harm. If we captured that now we capture that influx of imaginal consciousness imaginal capacity, we capture that. And we put that into this new designs into these new structures into these new systems into these ways of recreating the new narratives and new movements. There are amazing things that are possible, however, if we don’t capture it, and we let it be hijacked these imaginal potency by those who are preaching to the divisions, the the violence going back into warfare, in our data, we have missed just an incredible, credible opportunity. Yeah,

Rick Archer: that’s a really good start. It’s more than a metaphor, because it’s literal, in the way the plan tries to heal itself. Yes. And it’s fascinating. And if we think of the planet as being like a body, and what what a body does when there’s an injury or an infection, or something like that, maybe we can elaborate on this a little bit more. Yes, I mean, you know, obviously, the white blood cells coming in there. What do they do they kind of try to, you know, gobble up the

Anneloes Smitsman: exactly, take away the older that cells. And

Rick Archer: so on a global scale, maybe we have something that behaves as white blood cells, and then there are other things which bring in nourishment. And I don’t know, like, a specific example, let’s say, so the invasion of Ukraine. What What are we supposed to do? I mean, should we just say, alright, we’re not going to fight. Let Putin take Ukraine? Or do you think it’s right to, you know, send arms to Ukraine, so they can try to defend their territory? Or should everybody just sort of go around and come to Ukraine and chant home all day? Or? What would you suggest, like with a concrete example like that?

Anneloes Smitsman: Well, first of all, look at the immune response of humanity when Ukraine was invaded, and how it was different from other other invasion stories before many people felt it as if it happened to them, right, in standing with solidarity may look also how Europe opens its arms to all of the refugees, yes. Now, so there, the immune response reaction towards Ukraine getting invaded by Putin. And its people feeling, even in the United States, as if it’s happening now to them, shows me that as already the emerging again, of this, this collective awakening of this collective consciousness as a humanity, something has shifted in this. And I think it’s absolutely important that we stand in solidarity with Ukraine, in order to stop these patterns of evasion and domination and aggression, that Putin is now not only playing out, but taking opportunity. And he’s not gonna stop. He’s not gonna stop in Ukraine. I mean,

Rick Archer: if you could get away with that he might try Finland, or something, or whatever. Oh,

Anneloes Smitsman: and don’t forget, don’t forget, Russia has influence in Africa, where we are feeling and here. So, you know, the war is shifting in many different ways as well. So the way that we keep democracy alive also is by taking responsibility for it every single day. Again, we can’t just expect all because we sign it in our constitutions or again, we’re coming back we voted for somebody. Now it’s our responsibility to keep this alive apart, keeping but makes democracies vulnerable to people. I put in is because these are open societies. And therefore we have a different immune response a different defense system, so to say, and we are having to learn now what is our immune response learning response to what somebody like Putin who has no respect for human life whatsoever is is willing to lie. He just wants to achieve his goal. He wants to just have another, you know, Soviet Union. If we don’t stop those patterns, and we don’t stop that. Then these archetypes of domination are terrorizing people. So it’s really important. Yeah.

Rick Archer: There’s that saying it takes a thorn to remove a thorn. Even Stephen Ramana Maharshi. Like that phrase. And, you know, sometimes it takes military opposition to confront an aggressor. Yeah, yes. You can’t just, I mean, Gandhi was actually saying, oh, you know, we shouldn’t like fight Hitler, try passive, you know, try Satyagraha, passive non violence, and it just wouldn’t have worked. In that case. Sometimes you just have to, you know,

Anneloes Smitsman: sometimes you have to match it exactly. But then we need, of course, also have very clear agreements that say that we have, we have to match it to have to stop the aggression, how to make sure that the people who are in charge of stopping that aggression are not staying and becoming the next aggressors. And that’s always the risk, because that means that even democracies may choose moments of being more authoritative, in order to to stop that domination. But if they’re not conscious themselves, and that moment of the power of increased power that they’re using, they may become the next Dominator, and that’s the big risk in crisis management.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I have a question here, maybe just pop this and then have some other thoughts. So this is a question that came in from Tiffany Adair in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, I love the idea of imagining life after the big shift happens, you capitalize the word shift. But I can’t help but think about how much people need to change to get there, from lifestyles to old culture, cultural values, traditions, politics, etc. What do you suggest when we encounter someone who is opposed to this shift for any reason, such as being afraid of change, greed, lower consciousness, etc?

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s a very good question. I always like to start with where there’s a little opening, and find that opening in a person and build a bridge from that. Because if you go confrontational, and if you go, well, it’s trying to convince the other person, all you get is resistance. So for examples, now ask them as a future ancestor of a world that’s not yet born? Which will do you want to be a part of which world? If you were to tell the story later in your life, where even if this was the last day of your life? How would you want to tap people to tell the story about what you and your life have done? And now imagine that every little change that you’re making could inspire someone else, and that could inspire someone else. I can tell you a practical example here. This is in one of the classes I was giving on ecological literacy for the students in Mauritius. And one of the girls was saying, What will look at us, you know, whatever island here disappears. And we haven’t even, you know, done so much to give rise to all of these emissions. We’re not even responsible. That’s what you’re saying for the climate crisis. But our island may be disappearing. And it may be common liveable for here. And it’s all just so unfair. And what can I do on this small little islands to make any change. And as we started to work on our school projects, and ecological literacy and taking actions to save to the water and the ocean, and how to pollution and we created campaigns where we clean up many of the plastic bags all around and we started to put all of those plastic bags into art for awareness. Now I started to document their story and tell their story. And that story, actually then went to Syria and Syria was just starting to emerge in their own civil war at the beginning and one of the students in Syria. So he was a student of mine as well. And we started to now link to the stories and suddenly the children in Mauritius and them taking action for the planet and learning to work together and creating teams and feeling that at least there was something that we’re doing about it, even if they felt that we’re not responsible. For the disasters, that we’re doing something about it, that now started to inspire the children who are going to school in Syria in extreme conditions. And as children in Mauritius, we’re learning about the children of Syria, they went, Whoa, can be so much worse. Thankfully, we’re not in a civil war. And so they, all of those stories started to amplify each other’s. And this is, you know, when somebody’s telling Well, I’m very pessimistic, we have to change so much. And you know, I don’t believe in any of this, the world is full with stories of people just taking a little action, because they believe in it, because they believe that that’s what’s in the heart, what they need to do, that then starts to catalyze a change process of someone else, and someone else and someone else. And before you know it, we creating a social tipping point, for the good changes rather than the destruction.

Rick Archer: It’s nice. It reminds me of a story from the Indian tradition, where the seagull laid its eggs in the sand. And after a while, a wave came and washed the eggs out into the ocean. And the seagull said, Give back my ex, you know, and the ocean ignored it. And so the seagull said, Okay, I’m going to make you dry, if you don’t give back my egg, so it started taking water, big in its beak, and you know, taking it out of the ocean, dumping it on the sand, taking it out like that over and over again. And it just persisted, they and I had such determination, I’m going to it believed that it could do this. And obviously, it wasn’t going to succeed. But the king of the birds, whoever that might have been Garuda or something, they became aware of this little Seagull and what it was doing, and it was so inspired by its dedication that it came and you know, being the king of the birds that had the ability to suck up the whole ocean if it wanted to. And the ocean, seeing the king of the birds comes in. Okay, okay, I’m giving back to the eggs. And so it came back the eggs. But in principle there is I think that if we have the sincerity and the determination, there are higher powers in this universe, or perhaps a ultimate higher power, which responds, when we, you know, there’s that saying, God helps those who help themselves. So when we put forth the dedicated effort, some much greater force can come to our assistance and accomplish things that we alone might not have been able to.

Anneloes Smitsman: I agree with you. And that’s a beautiful story. I love that. And also, of course, that’s, you know, to me, ultimately, it always comes back to who are you going to be in these difficulties? What humanity are you giving birth to? So take the actions because you believe in that you believe in the goodness, because that’s how you keeping love and wisdom alive in you. And even if you do that consistently in the most difficult circumstances, to me, that’s heroic, in itself, you know, just keeping that love alive consistently. Because as we do that, and then generate that, and then give that and share that with those people around us. We have no idea how much strength that can give, and how important that can be. We should never underestimate the value of that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Jesus said, If your faith is as much as a grain of mustard to do, you can move mountains,

Anneloes Smitsman: the mountains of cynicism, polemic and move the mountains of cynicism.

Rick Archer: Another thing that came to mind, as you were speaking earlier, was the disinformation that flies around the world these days. And I was reminded of it because a lot of it comes out of Russia. I mean, they have whole buildings full of people just pumping out, you know, propaganda and disinformation and fake news and, and all kinds of stuff. And somehow, and we’ll see what you want to say about this. But I think one thing is that people really have to develop strong, bullshit detectors, you know, strong discriminative ability in this day and age. And there’s another thing that that’s coming along these days, which is called Deep fakes, where they can make videos of somebody’s like, I don’t know, Tom Cruise, or Barack Obama or somebody else that looks exactly like them, and you think it’s them, but it’s not them. It’s just something that looks like them actually saying whatever they want them to say. So with the way that technology is evolving, the world is going to become even more confusing than it already is with this kind of thing going on. And he thought,

Anneloes Smitsman: yeah, this is a very important point that you’re raising. And I think it’s interesting, because we talked about before, when you externalize all of your powers and you give it away, you become poor insights. Yeah. And the dangers of that in the time in which we live in now. So here is the beauty again, coming back to consciousness. When you really from Max MetLife, and information around you from that fundamental level of consciousness, you can sense if something is congruent or not. So you may not have the technology at that time to be even to be able to recognize this as a deep fake is going on what’s going there. But at a deeper level of reality, you can sense whether the information what is the intention behind the information, what is the impact of this information? Is this information being sent into humanity in order to bring us together and to bring up the values of the human heart that are going to make us stronger together? Or is that sent to divide us to break us apart to, you know, sort of three start in fighting and feeding that very pattern of the self destruction that we talked about? So this is to me, but as the sermon comes in, it’s really now using the power of your consciousness, linked with the wisdom of discernment. So using the power of consciousness, the ability to ask questions, the wisdom of discernment, and, and then to really take responsibility for what information, what dynamics do I choose to participate in, feeds in broadcast, share, invest in and really taking that home as that is my primary responsibility as a human being, rather than just putting the blame on Oh, well, it’s all on the fake news. And it’s all of this. And then we can’t know any more about this, you know? No. We have a bullshit detector inside us.

Rick Archer: And we have a potential one anyway. Yeah,

Anneloes Smitsman: exactly, exactly. And that’s the power of your own wisdom, your power beyond consciousness where you can you can actually sense and use a discernment and ask the right questions, and not just believe everything that’s coming at you.

Rick Archer: Yeah, very important. I mean, there was a whole phenomenon when the pandemic hit were a phenomenon that people call can spirituality, where spiritual people in large numbers just got kind of brainwashed by a lot of the misinformation that was flying about and shifted in their beliefs and orientations in very strange ways. But I also want to just mention, there’s some interesting principles in physics in terms of super fluidity and superconductivity, where these incredibly coherent, perfectly coherent systems usually at very low temperatures, there’s something called the Meissner effect in this regard, where they become impervious to incoherence coming from the outside, they’re able to maintain perfect coherence despite the onslaught of incoherent influences. And so this kind of analogy there for human consciousness becoming so coherent, that you’re, you’re not influenced by the incoherence around you kind of reminds me of that Rudyard Kipling poem or you don’t lose your head while everyone around you is losing. There’s Yes.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes, yes, exactly. So, it comes back again, also to you talking about the power of spirituality before right. Training as human beings. I think this is this is another aspect of spirituality in action, wisdom and action, consciousness and action. And, yes,

Rick Archer: let’s see. Here’s another question. Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Anneloes Smitsman: Oh, yes. Yeah, the company. Well, one thing as well is where, where do you exist? I want to ask people, you know, is is your level of existence only in terms of information that is coming to you? Or can you bring where you exist at a more fundamental level of reality, its itself. I think that’s, that’s really important, because otherwise, you’re gonna get swept in story after story after story. But who are we fundamentally?

Rick Archer: Yeah. Here’s a question that came in from Rita’s spawn and bird. Oh, whoa. Whoa, oh. Oh. Okay. I usually tune in for more. Actually, Angel. Can you edit out my mention of her name? She didn’t want to name mention her last name. Okay, just from Rita, somebody named Rita just or just added up the name entirely. Angeles, my video editor. So here’s the question. I usually tune in for more overtly spiritual conversations. But now I am coming from a place of fear and worry over possible dark days ahead in America. And I want to tell you, this is a welcome conversation. Thank you. Just a comment, but it’s nice one.

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s nice. That is nice. Yes,

Rick Archer: I think there is a silver lining. And you know, Tiffany’s question earlier about what can you do about people who are opposed to this shift and so on? Well, I’ll tell you a funny story that I like to play this sport called pickleball. Right? I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, but it’s the fastest growing sport in America. And recently, there have been a couple of articles with titles like Ken pickleball, save America. And the reason is, the reason is that, you know, when I play, I’m there with people who have completely different political orientations than I do. And although we’re friends, we’re having fun, you know, we’re playing pickleball. So, and that was what these articles were talking about, it’s bringing together some very odd bedfellows, so to speak, you know, unlikely groupings of people. So and there are other things like that, where there are organizations which get, you know, Republicans and Democrats in the same room and get them to have conversations and befriend one another, and so on and find common ground. And I think there’s probably a lot more common ground among human beings than we often think, and this in this time of great polarization, and perhaps we need to make a more concerted effort to find that.

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s it that what you just said, because a lot of the polarization to me that has manipulated that, you know, that is not natural there, there are people were benefiting by not polarization. I mean, it’s take a bit if let’s take a bit of a back perspective, art, I mean, it’s amazing that people would even identify themselves as I’m a Republican or a Democrat. And that identity, which is let’s take a historical perspective, it’s really young, right? So honestly, are you gonna let that get away if you to get to having to find a bushfire or in a major flood going to say, well, there’s a Republican on the other side of the river, and now we want to save them? Or there’s a Democrat over there saying, well help help. Well, no, we’re asking them first. What party are you voting for? Really? Soon, thinkable. It’s also important, I think, to go back to basic, you know, people and really look at indeed what unite us and that we need each other right now.

Rick Archer: That’s a good example. You know, a lot of times when there is some kind of a natural disaster like a huge snowstorm, or flood or something like that. You see, people’s hearts expand and you see just normal people driving like hundreds of miles with their boat to rescue people in the flood. And they’re not checking their their voter registration card to see what

Anneloes Smitsman: falls away. So yeah, that’s why sometimes I feel how you can work creatively in a transformative way with crisis moments is just imagine ourselves all right, right now in such a big flood, as if it’s happening now. And then you’re not looking like you said somebody’s voters registration? How would you behave in the middle of a crisis, when lives have to be saved? Over in that time right now even even hasn’t kind of hit home? And where are you going to be in that? How are you going to reach out to people around you? What are you going to do also to not just human life, but you know, our order the plant families, the insects, the bees that need our help? You know, are you going to show up for each other? You need it right now, there’s so much goodness that you can do. So please, people, if you think about all the goodness that we can do all the Canada we can give? Why focus on the well, if they’re not gonna change, and why should I you know, it’s just not helpful.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, this is, this is a point we can discuss a little bit more, because I know that in Europe, there has been huge waves of immigrants. And in the US, there are there’s a constant flow of hundreds of 1000s of people from Central and South America coming up to the US Mexico border. And there’s a it’s a big political issue about you know, what to do with them. And, and with climate change. I mean, if sea level rises a few feet, there could be a number that could be hundreds of millions of people in coastal cities that are going to have to move. And at the same time, there could be droughts and famines and all kinds of things going on. And so a lot of people predict that there will be great social upheaval, with mass migrations of people and, and so that could, you know, we can envision a very contentious world if all that begins to happen. On the other hand, we were just mentioning the point where, in natural disasters, sometimes people just become great humanitarians and their hearts open up So, you wonder like, how is this gonna play out?

Anneloes Smitsman: Well, that’s one thing is I think if if we are over imagining and overplaying is in our hand, we have to be careful as well, right? So that’s why to me, it’s if you take as a Mantra for your own life, what action can I take today that helps to create a more livable world, even the small actions, the little things that you can do, do that consistently know practice calmness in the middle of the storm. If you feel triggered, if you feel annoyed, if you feel like you really want to put someone else in their place, or you want to convince them, you know, whatever, whatever your trigger points are, work with that, because when you work with that every day, then when we are really in the midst of those crisis, you may find a you and that person, then that actually is really calm, that suddenly rises up and just can become that incredible arm for others, when you may even surprise yourself. But you prepare for that today, you prepare for that today in the way in your attitude, the way that you develop it. Also your how you work with challenges. And look at what undermine said, one of the first I would, I would almost say it’s emotional poison. What really undermines This is blame when we start to blame to put it out there, that it’s someone else’s responsibility, we start to feel really sorry for ourselves. Where does that take you? It locks you in, it makes it impossible for you to really take proactive actions. So keep your inner consciousness really free, really clear. We are in the tipping point times now and everyone is needed here. We don’t know how we are how we are going to work through this. But we are going to work through this. We have to Yeah, there’s too much that depends on us right now. And yes,

Rick Archer: in 1974, I was on a boat ride on Lake Lucerne and Switzerland with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and a bunch of people. And we were all talking about this thing that you and I are talking about today, this phase transition that’s going to happen in society. And, you know, that was like 50 years ago. We were talking about it. And people you know, and people were kind of worrying. Because it sounded like ooh, it could get rough. And they said they asked Mr. Chu, how can we survive this? And he said, Hold on to the self. That’s it, you know, hold on, and he might capital S self, you know, sort of cosmic self.

Anneloes Smitsman: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So let’s see now, where should we go from here? Do you have thoughts in the back of your mind of things that you’d like to talk about that we haven’t considered yet? Or what?

Anneloes Smitsman: Well, let me ask you some questions. Yeah. So what you’re seeing in the United States and, you know, people from we’re not living any assets, like my like myself, and we’re, it looks like this really an untold level of polarization that’s been happening in your own country, right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and almost a call to renew your democracies in a ways that’s that many may not even have thought of all of those years ago. What does it mean, the American spirit, American Heart American values, there was long this American dream that was tied to this economic dream of everyone can have the big house, the Vichara, the, you know, the big fridges and ice ice machines, right? making lots of ice cream. That’s what I remember. But also when I came to the States, but there’s something else in the pioneering pioneering spirit of Americans. So when you were to close your eyes, or you tell, you know, the future generations about what it truly means the heart of what it means to be an American, and to be an American in times of great change? What are the values that really stand out for you?

Rick Archer: Well, that’s an interesting question. You know, first of all, people came over here from Europe, and it was a con a continent that was just incredibly rich with natural resources. And basically, wave after wave we killed or isolated the people who are already living here, and, and started to cash in on all these great resources. And, and then we began to tell ourselves, we’re so wonderful, we’re so successful, you know, we’re, you know, look at us, aren’t we? Aren’t we great? But I think, you know, if we tried to do this in a desert, like the way Israel has managed to do, it might not have gone so well. And so there’s there’s that, but yeah, then again, maybe people who are willing to cross an ocean and to an unknown land have a certain pioneering spirit that is conducive to, you know, inventiveness and entrepreneurial nature and all that. And so, you know, maybe there was that sort of breed of person that became known as American. Where am I going with this? So? Well, it’s, firstly, we were gifted with a very great natural resource, you know, to begin with. And I think that the attempt that forming the government we have formed, was brilliant, and has been challenged and has, and we’ve been very hypocritical about it. I mean, all men are created equal. And yet a lot of the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution on slaves. So there’s been a lot of hypocrisy, but and, you know, it’s, I’m not really a political commentator, but so I should cut this short. But, um, these days, things are very polarized, as you say, used to be that, you know, not that long ago when some bill would come up in Congress, and there would be, you know, majority of Republicans and Democrats voting for it. These days, it’s 5050, or just, you know, no vote, Republicans will vote or democrat will vote for a bill that the other party has proposed. So we’re very divided, very polarized. People talk about, you know, alternative facts, as if there were such a thing that they ascribe to as compared to what the other people think 60% of Republicans think that Trump won the last election and you can’t convince them otherwise. So whatever we’re going through, we haven’t finished going through it, and there’s going to have to be a reckoning or a healing or a unifications. Somehow, and I’m not sure exactly what’s going to accomplish it. And a lot of people are predicting another civil war, but it will be much more grassroots and much more intermixed. It won’t be so territorial, if it happens. There are more guns in this country than there are people. And, you know, even though there are hundreds of gun deaths, just about every day, you know, the only response to these massacres we have is thoughts and prayers, and you can’t accomplish anything to change the laws around gun ownership. So well, you can tell I’m getting off on a rant here. soapbox. But did that help at all? In terms of the question you asked me?

Anneloes Smitsman: It raises. Yeah, it raises several questions. It’s actually very interesting. This is one of the first thing that that comes to mind as I’m listening to you is really to I like to ask the American people, what’s the root of this division? If you were to go all the way back in time? Where did that begin? That will be the first question what’s really improved? What’s the weight of all of that? And the second question is what has made it so difficult for a third party a third, a middle ground and alternative? A third way to be able to emerge? Why is that not been able to really take off so what has made it so majoritarian? I mean, I know you’ve you’ve inherited an English system, which unfortunately, you’re seeing the same in the United Kingdom, right? All of those majoritarian systems are set up dualistic rather than through coalition’s. But what is it within the American people were there somehow have bought in to say, well, that that is simply part of political life? And what do we need? What needs to happen? For people to start, imagine a very different kind of politics that isn’t hijacked by two parties, constantly giving themselves a standing by making the other person wrong. You know, what of politics is not about that game. But the politics of the future is truly about working together on the issues that require collaboration.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, regarding the roots of the division, I’m not sure but it must be something in the collective consciousness, you know, there, there must be some deep schism or division in the collective consciousness and it probably will only be mended by some kind of regeneration of consciousness at a deep level, that’s much my conjecture. And regarding the two party system, it is set up that way. And there have been other parties which have eventually ceased to exist. There were parties called like the Whigs, and I don’t know there were other parties. And there is something called rank choice voting where it would allow for multiple parties and then everything would get filtered out and, you know, we’d end up with with something more We’re interesting, I think, than what we currently have. And, you know, as it is now, there have been third party candidates like Ralph Nader and others, but they didn’t really get anywhere. It’s very often a symbolic thing where somebody will run on the vegetarian party. But I think perhaps there could, it’s hard to change anything you see, because people like their power, and they like the, they don’t want a kind of a more eclectic mix up of multiple parties. And so the guys that were, and then we have the problem of corporations funding the politicians, they’re just in terms of the pharmaceutical industry alone, there are three lobbyists in Washington for every politician. And so it’s very difficult to pass legislation on, you know, drug policies, drug prices, and stuff. And that’s just one industry, then we have fossil fuels and everything else under the sun. There’s this American politics is a wash and money. And the Supreme Court passed something about I don’t know, back during the Obama Administration called Citizens United. And it was a thing where corporations were now to be regarded as people. And they had the right to give any amount of money to politicians, even anonymously, their ways of setting that up. So the system is really screwed up. And something’s gotta give, something’s got to change. And I don’t know what’s going to force it to work, we’re just gonna hear

Anneloes Smitsman: two things that come to my mind, again, listening. One is, imagine this a thought experiment, imagine that every child at school in the United States gets asked to envision a different political system, different society in which they are not Democrats and Republicans, the wonderful Americans with also the older refugees, immigrants, and so there is a, there are planetary citizens living in the United States, who are also proud of other countries. So imagine that all the children at school are actually getting this as a project at school to start to imagine this. And how that in the back of their minds later when it’s their time to either create jobs or take on positions. There’s something about those early exercises that they’ve done, that says, Why are we putting up with a broken system, let’s create a better world like Buckminster Fuller said, Let’s really put our energy there. So imagine that being a school project that starts there seeding planting that seed, really by design intentionally. And that’s one. And then the other thing that’s just an observation is that any system that is inhibited from transforming and evolving itself will start to do so through collapse and death. Because you can’t stop nature. You can’t stop life in that way. So if if life is being trapped in structures that can’t evolve, then eventually it just creates a very conditions for the collapse. So if the United States is not going through this experiment, to renew and evolve itself, and evolve within its constitutional Palace, in that sense, its own political system, then you’re setting yourself up actually, for more of those collapse scenarios. So the this this, if for all of those people out there who are thinking, Oh, well, this collapse is just happening because again, of someone else, or the companies now, you proud of that. And you are also an imaginal cell within a society seeking to renew and evolve itself. And imaginal cells have given very, very specific potencies by life itself, so that they can be imaginal cells. But this likely it’s in the butterfly, the imaginal cells and the butterfly in the caterpillar body, the imaginal cells of the butterfly don’t link up in time, they can’t form the butterfly party, and then that beautiful little creature dies.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, it’s interesting. And I think it’s very, I mean, I think life is fun. And I’d like to live, you know, till I’m over 100 If I can just to see what happens. fascinating to watch it all unfold. And, obviously, you know, so many great civilizations have collapsed throughout history. And when they were in their prime, they probably couldn’t imagine that they would ever collapse. They would think, you know, we’re here forever. And so, who knows what’s going to happen in the United States? I don’t know. I can only speculate. But, you know, again, I keep coming back to the fact I mean, the very presence of this show that I’m doing and other shows like it. There are so many people around the world Who are waking up, you know, spiritually and in many other ways. And I don’t think so even if we had the technology in the 1950s, I don’t think I could have done a show like this because the collective consciousness was just not ripe for it. And, of course, now we do have the technology, which in itself is a symptom of something beautiful happening looks like this is nervous system has formed all over the world that lets information propagate in ways that never could before. So I know your guess is probably not as good as mine, but better than mine as to how things are going to unfold, because this has been your specialty. But I’m, ultimately I’m optimistic. But I think that we could go through some rough times before we get to the brighter future.

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes, I make you in there. Yes, because there’s so many

Rick Archer: things that exist that wouldn’t, couldn’t exist in a more enlightened world. And so how are those things going to transform or being dismantled or something?

Anneloes Smitsman: Yes. Well, we are also creating right now the very conditions for our own next step in evolution, right, yeah, you know, this is the compost. But we also need to compost some of our belief systems and patterns and behaviors that are just dysfunctional, and be very aware of systems that were simply designed for collapse and never designed to make to last so you know, allowed to die and allow to let go and allow to release.

Rick Archer: One thing I saw in one of your videos was this. It was animated, there was a kind of a discussion of how the economic system is based upon the principle of continuing growth. Yes, spite, and you had this upward moving line, despite the fact that we just don’t have the resources to grow in the way we, I mean, what did you say would take about five planets or something for everybody to humble and kind of lifestyle that the American Americans

Anneloes Smitsman: think about 12?

Rick Archer: And so, you know, maybe you could, I mean, what would be an alternative system that wouldn’t be unrealistically dependent upon an infinite content, infinite supply of natural resources and so on?

Anneloes Smitsman: Offensive because you have to work with renewables. But I think the big problem is isn’t the way that we have visualized and envisioned progress and growth. So somehow, economists have thought that growth just means more and more, more and more, and then became the story of oh, we don’t want to just more in a progressive line, we want exponential growth. So we we’ve made this line, we’ve just really said that, oh, that’s progress. That’s what we have to sell to our board members. And that means success, right. But the only pattern in nature, when you see the exponential growth curve is in bacteria and viruses. I mean, we know that one now from the COVID crisis. Yeah. So we’ve been behaving like like a virus on this planet. And from a systemic point of view, if you taking this growth curve, always the one that follows after that is exponential collapse. However, living systems don’t grow that way. So for for a living system for a forest for an ecosystem, like a waterway, or even the ocean itself, the way that living systems grow is that there are moments of expansion. And when the system expands, it doesn’t just expand to mono crops, it expands to diversify. And the diversity now gives rise to new collaborations, new co creations, new innovations. And then there are moments just like autumn, when the leaves are falling, when the system contracts, and that contraction in that contraction, what happens at all of those earlier experiments are being composted information is not lost, the information then returns to that field of life that is unified. And in that moment of integration of returning back to the center and into kind of the deep space of consciousness. That’s where the impulse of the renewal comes from. That’s where the transformative capacity comes from. That’s your winter time that’s necessary for your spring, our economic and political systems because they by design, we set them up that they only have to do this expansion, we think that that is progress. By design, we have not allowed time for the integration for the contraction, because we think contraction is bad. Every start by reimagining this in different ways. It’s amazing how we can actually stimulate and enhance our transformative capacities when I was going through this process with corporations and you know, helping them to see these patents. I’ll give you an example. People in some of those businesses, they were not even allowed a 15 minute break because they thought that they couldn’t be productive. However, And by design, we explain to the management and said no, but if you allow people to rest, to integrate to go within their productivity rather than being less, because you’ve imagined that MR curve actually becomes more qualitatively, it’s not about producing, producing. and by so doing, you are investing in the transformative capacity of your organization, you create a better culture, you create a more better balance. And as these are the beginning conditions of liability, so I really do believe it can start as simple as comes back to narrative, you know, really start to question, how have we created and design these systems? For what purpose? And what if we actually can change that? Because if we keep telling ourselves, well, that’s just the way it is, and it’s so hard, and we can change that? No, nothing grows in that way, growth is always a process of, of externalization and coming into being expansion, and then it needs to contract. And the contraction doesn’t mean that there is a problem there now allow it to contract. Like we’re seeing now we’re hitting the planetary boundaries that are forcing us now to to contract. And we’re thinking, Oh, contracts is gonna give us problems? No, no, no, we haven’t gone through that experiment of the full contraction, allowing the contraction, allowing the contraction so that it can integrate that it can then renew, so that we then through that process of dying to our old ways, a new impulse can be born. And then we start to see the solution says, like, after very good night rest. Sometimes we wake up in the morning, I can see it now. Last night, I was so stressed, I just kept focusing on it, and I couldn’t let it go. And it’s, it just got worse and worse. And you know, we got deeper and deeper digging ourselves into the problem, and we let go at night, we allow our consciousness to return today. Yeah, janeyah is a field.

Rick Archer: That’s nice. There are companies in the US where they have meditation rooms and massage rooms and ping pong rooms, and you can bring your dogs to work and, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. And yeah, Tammy Simon, who runs sounds through the book publishing company, they have a fantastic work environment. It’s everybody has their dogs, and it’s just this really family like atmosphere. Anyway, um, you’re talking about things collapse, and then all the potentialities or the information that were in the systems kind of marinate or in the collapsed state, and then can integrate into integrated, and then they can kind of reemerge and reconfigure. And so, you know, I don’t know if I’ve asked you yet, for maybe I have for some kind of timeline. Do you see like, some kind of, you know, collapse by 2030? Or something that’s going to be really significant than then a reemergence by 2040? Or, you know, what’s your sense of?

Anneloes Smitsman: Maybe we need to go ahead. Yeah. Okay, good question. even think that we need to change the narrative around that collapse as well. So let’s run because there are things that that are collapsing, because by design, they’ve been set up for this curve, okay. So that system is incapable of doing the contraction. If it can’t do the contraction. If it can’t do the renewal ever can’t go through its own autumn and its own winter. If it can’t do that, then it will collapse. But those those are very rigid, artificial systems that were not designed with life. So the collapse story belongs to that scenario. However, for those systems, and organizations and cultures that are recognizing that we’ve done this for a long time, and now we need to learn to have to the journey of of living within our planetary and social boundaries and thresholds. And that is not the story of collapse. It’s a story of integration, we have diversified as a humanity, we’ve been spread out over all of those countries, continents. And now we’re going to make our journey back home, we’re going to get to know who are we in all of these countries? Who are we among all of these different cultures and languages? So that this story, it’s not, it’s not a story of death. It is a story of integration in a way that we’ve never consciously done before. To me in terms of timelines, we have already started that, to me the onset of the COVID crisis, when we had to cook home. Whether we liked it or not, yeah, But that’s a cocoon. To me, that was really the the ISI mark that points as that I found that so interesting that the virus kind of put us to a stop. And that was the beginning of having to make this journey. And we just we are just at the beginning of that being called back to the center being called back to integrate being called back to contract for birth, not to contracts, as punishment not to contract as some kind of fear scenario. But just like for a woman to give birth, the uterus has to contract. If the uterus doesn’t contract, the baby’s not coming out. So the baby of our humanity, it’s in the womb right now, we’re not out yet. We can start to feel it. But we, we need to make that journey. I need to help people to understand those stages so that they understand what’s going on. They don’t have to be afraid of it, how to work with the process, and then allowing out of that integration. And to me, I just said today for my sound system, that kind of path point, maybe in a couple of decades.

Rick Archer: Yes. So in other words, the really better time might really you’re guessing, of course, might come in a couple of decades, but between now and then there’s going to be a lot of collapsing and reshuffling. And yeah, I think that’s roughly what Dwayne Elgin was saying to in his best case scenario, you know, maybe around 2040 2050, something like that. Even now, I mean, you can see some companies, for instance, back in the 19, you’re still there, right? I didn’t hear any audio from you. Your audio went silent, I think, yes, yes, I’m here. Back in the 1970s, Exxon, for instance, scientists there realized that what they were doing was contributing to what was going to become a climate crisis, you know, climate change. And they had a whole division of scientists working on this and thinking about alternative energy and stuff like that. And then they decided, nah, that’s gonna hurt the bottom line. And so they disbanded that whole department and fired the scientists and actually started spending all this money on a PR campaign to create doubt about climate change, and say, that’s not really a problem, or there’s, you know, a lot of the scientists don’t believe it’s going to happen and things like that. Now we’re at, you know, where we are, where we are today. And I think that companies which play that game, and don’t, kind of like adopt, adapt to, don’t under come undergo the adaptations, they need to are probably going to find it’s too little too late, they won’t be able to change, they won’t be excellent had the opportunity to get into alternative energies way back then, and they didn’t. But other companies, you know, are just more flexible, more adroit. They’re, they’re kind of going with the flow and changing and so maybe those will be the ones that thrive and the more ossified ones will collapse, you know,

Anneloes Smitsman: and that is a fundamental pattern, you know, talking about so again, any any system that is really rigid, and tries to resist the changes rather than being responsive towards it. It’s their own death sentence. Yeah, they are the ones that then simply not proud of the future. The thing is, when they feel and sense perhaps already, that they may not be part of the future, they can get more stubborn. We’re trying to take and grab, you know, and take people down with them. And we need good strategies and policies.

Rick Archer: Yeah, but the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Yes. And it’s surprising. I mean, there have been examples, there was a big company named Enron, which was a big trader in the energy industry, and everybody thought that they were invincible. And they just collapsed like a like the Hindenburg. And yeah, that’s it and, you know, the Soviet Union breaking up or the Berlin Wall falling. So sometimes big changes happen quite suddenly and unexpectedly. Yes, I’m,

Anneloes Smitsman: we’re in the midst of a lot of that, because we have these huge, massive, massive companies and organizations. Yeah, but they don’t realize how vulnerable they’ve made themselves. Again, this tipping point affects, you know, can escalating points and this is why also to get resilient for the changes. It’s important that we change our scaling coke also go much more back to local but then coordinate local to regional. We need a different global. Not this globalization that was just a Yeah, yeah, I

Rick Archer: mean, look how vulnerable that is with the supply chain problems and the all the boats from China getting stuck in the harbor of California because they, you know, there were no trucks they were 80,000 truck drivers short of what was needed to move things out of the port. I mean, the whole thing just got its, we’re still recovering from that. And, you know, so obviously, things have to get a lot simpler. And like you said, perhaps more local.

Anneloes Smitsman: Exactly. I mean, right now, to me, this is a time that is showing and revealing what doesn’t work. Yeah. Yeah. And what may have worked for earlier times, but it doesn’t work for the future dentists coming. But again, people so important, don’t think that that doesn’t work that that is the future know that. There are worlds and systems and cultures. And worldviews that are that are dying, that are collapsing that are falling away. But they were never meant them. They were meant to last. Yeah. And

Rick Archer: it’s best interest for them to last.

Anneloes Smitsman: No, it’s not everything comes, there’s a time for everything to come to an end to a completion with the completion is not the end of the road. Yeah, that if it’s very creative,

Rick Archer: they’ll tell you one more cool thing that I read just yesterday, there’s there’s a new battery that is being developed, which is made of aluminum and sulfur, and aluminum is one of the most plentiful metals on Earth, and it can’t get overheat and explode the way lithium batteries can. And it charges up in one minute. And it could completely revolutionize the whole power system where we could have these batteries in our homes, solar panels on the roofs, and the energy distribution energy thing could be decentralized. And everyone could be locally much more self sufficient. It would also work in electric cars. So that’s just one example of something really cool. But yeah,

Anneloes Smitsman: exactly. And of this, as she just said, this pattern. So it’s much more decentralized, right? So we can see in that already, even in these new technological innovations, the patterns that are future fit the patterns that are going to make it but this is coming out of the creativity of people.

Rick Archer: Exactly, exactly. I mean, you could almost say in the work in the sense of the world doesn’t have an energy crisis. It has an intelligence crisis or creativity crisis, you know, and yeah, that’s the resource that we really need to tap into. And then yes, you know, what I’m quoting Jesus again, Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and all else should be added unto thee.

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s it, and that will invest in the in the children invest in that creativity. No, don’t feed them the same old, same old, but ask them what’s the future that they want? What future do they see, there are dreams and possibilities in the kids that we have no idea of, of what what great inventions they may come up with support them develop that helps them to develop those capacities to, to bring that, bring that out.

Rick Archer: That’s why I want to live to be at least 100. I want to see what happens. Exciting. Give me another 30 years. That’s the spirit. So this has been great. And you know, we talked we were saying in the beginning. Well, what are we gonna talk about? Well, we’ll just wing it. So we’ve just spent two hours winging it and having a great time, I think. Yes. And so, you know, what would you like to say by way of conclusion, and also include, in your conclusion, how people can plug into what you’re doing. I noticed you have on your website, you have all these webinars that people can do live, and they can also get into the archived versions of them. So what are those all about? So if people want to get more involved with you, what can they do?

Anneloes Smitsman: That’s lovely. Well, first of all, I, every last Tuesday of the month, I gave a coaching class where I support people to actually develop their capacities, both for inner and outer systems change to develop your future human potential. It includes always a teaching, it includes a practice for entering into that creative state of consciousness. And it’s from where we started to see the ways forward. So I’m just giving that always as consistent support as every last Tuesday of the month online, comes to the recording if people can’t join live this I started that in last November and it’s been hugely successful and that whole amazing community is forming around that. So when they go on my website, they will they’ll see that and there’s some little free videos as well so they can get a taste you know how it is. And then there are a lot of indeed, you know, online courses and programs is a future humans quests for where they really work on the deep changes a deep transformations. Where are we going through this also call the catalyst course and Tina and I gave that’s also on demand. So there’s a lot of resources, a lot of talks and a lot of free articles. He can just access. So yes, join the community and know that there are a lot of people here in the community where we really actively working towards co creating a world that works for all, and one on which we can thrive and flourish together. So find my website.

Rick Archer: And I’ll be linking to your website from your page on And also to your books. And in the future. If you have some new website or something like that, just let me know. And I’ll add it to that page.

Anneloes Smitsman: Oh, that’s wonderful. So much. Thank you. Yes, yes.

Rick Archer: So anyway, great. I really enjoyed spending this time with us the

Anneloes Smitsman: same here. And thank you for what you’re doing and for bringing us together in those conversations that are really important. And yeah, maybe just as a final message to all of those who are listening or watching, you know, invest in that future here. You are proud of the future. Not the world that’s collapsing. But yeah, Believe. Believe in truly in who you are, and who we can be together. And know that there are so many people out there around the world will believe that is more beautiful world is possible. And it’s already alive right here, as

Rick Archer: well. Please give Jean Houston, my love. And she’s so wonderful. And we for those watching this. We’ve got a couple of interesting interviews coming up with lots of interesting interviews coming. I’ll help Brian swim in a couple of weeks. You know, Brian? Yes. I’ve been wanting for years. So I’m very excited about that. And anyway, there’s an upcoming interviews page on, where you can see who’s scheduled if you like and you can add little, you can add reminders to your calendar program. So thank you all for listening and watching and I will see you for the next one and thanks again. Andalus

Anneloes Smitsman: thank you so much. been a great pleasure to be with you. Okay, take care.

Rick Archer: You too. Talk to you later. Bye bye