Talat Jonathan Phillips Transcript

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Talat Jonathan Phillips Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week is Jonathan Talat Phillips. Welcome, Jonathan.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Oh, thank you. It’s great to be here. Real pleasure.

Rick Archer: I have a fairly long written by a bio Jonathan in front of me here, but we decided I’m not going to read that. I’m just going to make a few points. And then he’ll fill us in on the details. I became acquainted with Jonathan when he emails

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Talat

Rick Archer: I’m sorry. Yeah, I know. It’s Talat, Talat. And Talat is your Sufi name. And we’ll get into why you have that. But I became, became acquainted with you when you emailed me and sent me a copy of your book, the electric Jesus, the healing journey of a contemporary gnostic, and I get a lot of books, and I, you know, kind of like, didn’t even look at it at first. And eventually, I started read a little bit, and I thought, well, this guy’s interesting. I’m gonna schedule him. And then I, as I do with various authors, I asked for certain chapters that I should read if I don’t have a chance to read the whole thing. But I really enjoyed the book. So I ended up reading it cover to cover and just finished it last night. Oh, nice. Yeah, great story, interesting stuff. And we’ll get into a lot of what you discussed in the^ book.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It’s pretty quick read too.

Rick Archer: It’s not like you know, War and Peace. Now, you are the co, excuse me, you’re the co founder of Evolver, dotnet, and reality sandwich. And it’s funny, just this morning, I was looking up something from the Yoga Sutras that I wanted to bring into the conversation today. And the best reference I found for it was on reality sandwich just happened to be

Talat Jonathan Phillips: nice.

Rick Archer: So and so we’re going to get into what co Evolver and net and reality sandwich are, I just wanted to say, you know, doing the show stretches me a lot because I talk to a different person each week, and I kind of get into their world and, and listen, read their books, listen to their interviews and stuff. And it, it always it never fails to kind of, you know, clear away some hidden assumptions that I had or expand my perspectives in different ways. And your book did that for me in spades. I was reminded of that line from Hamlet, “there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy”. So I would encourage people listening to just suspend any sort of rigid attachment to an understanding of the way things necessarily are if you have such attachments and just let yourself get into to lots world and consider the possibilities of what he’s talking about. And he’s not talking about them won’t talk about them as absolutes, but as possibilities as like, yeah, I don’t know what this is, but it sure seemed real to me. And well, what are the implications of that kind of thing. So So where should we start?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I could just add, because there’ll be part of the conversation too, is part of my bios, I’m a bioenergetic healer would be working for six years Reiki master and so a lot of bioenergetic healing, it’s like it’s therapy, with energy healing, and using spirit actually to help help with the therapeutic process. So I really believe in that. And I have a website to that. healing.com if people are interested in checking that out,

Rick Archer: I’ll be linking to all that stuff. You know, Evolver and reality sandwich and toilet healing all from batgap.com. So people, you know, just stuck your car and write this down. You can you can follow it later. Yeah, and obviously you didn’t start out as a bio and energetic Helios. You started out as a typical hedonistic agnostic, young fellow in Colorado. And then one thing led to the next.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, I mean, when you were talking about suspension of disbelief, or suspend, I can relate like, if any topic that I thought was that we talked about here is weird. Let it be weird. Like, I really love the skeptics pack path. It was my path, and still is to some degree, but I mean, the great thing about Gnosis is its word meaning direct knowledge, direct experience. So it’s a different kind of wisdom. Where you know, a preacher, a teacher, they can’t just tell you what it is, and you believe it. I’ve never done that, right. I never believed church or any of these things. But having rec experience, you start to come to understand what a lot of initiates from the different traditions across the planet have really been saying throughout the centuries. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And so, you know, not only should you not worry about taking things with a grain of salt, you should take things with a grain of salt and, you know, let experience be the final arbiter of their truth or, or falsehood Don’t, don’t, don’t take anything on faith.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: And the great thing about the skeptics path is like any truth they own, they really own it. It’s not like these new agey folks who are like, oh, yeah, that sounds great. And they just, you know, it’s like a battle. Yeah. So those little lights of truth that come in, and then they get bigger and bigger. So I really love the skeptics path, probably because it’s my own.

Rick Archer: I think it’s, it’s, in a way, it’s a scientific path. You know, a scientist is a skeptic, he doesn’t believe something because somebody told him, he believes that when it can be experientially verified, and, and even then he’s open to the possibility that some new experiment is going to refute his findings. And it might, he might have to throw the whole thing out and start over again.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, and that’s a good sign. That’s, that’s an open mind to sciences that hasn’t been stuck in his dogma and the paradigms that he was trained in, because I had a real frustration of jade in the book. She’s one of the main characters, she’s super fun. But she, her brother was a doctor. And when I started seeing energy fields, you know, I had told him this, he just did not believe me. He did not believe there was human energy fields. And so I just told him like, Well, okay, if you don’t believe me, let me show you. There’s a very easy way to show people energy fields. And he’s like, I don’t want to see that.

Rick Archer: So he’s not a scientist. Yeah, well

Talat Jonathan Phillips: wait, if the human body is actually energetic, and electric, and you’re a doctor, it has a great significance. I actually think we can’t heal so many diseases, especially things like depression, and even cancers. Without that knowledge, and he just like, No, I don’t want to hear I don’t want to look, I want to find out. And that doesn’t seem like the scientific facts to me.

Rick Archer: No, it really isn’t. It’s a kind of a diluted version of it, you know. But if you’re really true to the spirit of science, then you’re, you’re open to all possibilities.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, it’s something I love about bioenergetic practices is it’s a little bit of a game and you pay attend, you have to play by the rules. And one rule is you have no idea where it’s going. And everything’s experiment in somehow by this unfolding process, the healing will emerge, but it’s actually you’re kind of lost and experimenting throughout the whole time until you connect with the energy, the shadow component that needs to be brought in for union. And then the healing reveals itself to you. It’s so it’s so beautiful, but it is that kind of surrender to experience.

Rick Archer: This theme of science, I like to think that everything is a valid scientific theory, does God exist to angels exist? Do aliens exist? You know, anything, any question you could ask, it can be explored, really, and in accordance with the principles of the scientific method, you know, repeatable experiment, you know, having others be able to follow the steps you took and arrive at the same conclusion. It’s just that you have to kind of bring into the equation, the human nervous system as a scientific instrument and not just limit yourself to instruments external to the nervous system.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Right, which I feel like quantum physics is now showing that with the observed observer affecting the observed, and you know, Rick, when you’re saying this, I’m thinking about, you know, my book, I talk a lot about the ancient mystery schools, because they tracked this science, they were studying astronomy, they were studying math, mathematics, I mean, look at Pythagoras. He was a mystery school initiate. They were studying all these things without what we would call science. But part of that science, probably the most important part was the science of consciousness and the science of the universe. So it was the initiates path of if you’re going to study universe, you’ve got to study energy. Yeah. Because the whole universe is energy. And I think it’s spiritual energy. It’s the consciousness to it. To us, you know, this being that the universe is constantly changing and present with us and the mystery schools had a real path and a trajectory to go through that right now. I’m with them. I’ve been working with the Santa diamond church. Do you know them?

Rick Archer: I know them through listening to you. I had heard of them, but I learned more about them. Listen, and you know, listening to you.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I mean, I just think it’s incredible. Because I was looking, I was reading the ancient Gnostics. Now I don’t read the ancient Nasus anymore, because I practice with modern day, Gnostics, and the hymns that come through, they’re actually received. I didn’t believe that for the longest time. I thought people wrote these hymns down there, the medicine songs that Come in. But then you start seeing your friends actually receive the hymn, and you’re like, oh, okay, they’re delivered to these gifts from higher dimensional beings. At least that’s what the diamond would say.

Rick Archer: So it’s received and actually sung spontaneously extemporaneously, it’s not like cognized, and then written down and then sung later.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It could be however you track it, a lot of times they receive it, and they do it into an iPhone recorder, you know, just like that. Yeah. And then you bring it to the works. They’re not called ceremonies. They’re called works, because man, they really are works, and, and we sing them, but they each they’ll call in different beings to come in us and help us. And so it’s this Ayahuasca church, where the men are on one side, the women on the other, there’s no shaman, because we’re all we’re all supposed to be training to be our own shamans and help each other. And they call him what’s called the forest, this high vibrational energy, it’s very Star Wars, like in essence, in the forces like this would, they would also call the Holy Spirit, the holy light that comes in, and it circulates. So they’ve created a magnet. It’s very like quantum physically, it’s a very smart spiritual healing technology. Masculine pole on one side feminine, the other, bring in the high vibrational energy, and it circulates through the singing and the opening of the hearts. And it clears this out and it illuminates the human energetic body. So it’s pretty powerful thing. And in the search, the it’s Mystery School, so they’re always talking about everything’s a lesson, and that it’s constantly talking about the science of the universe, and learning the science, that part of the science, they say, it’s just what you’re saying. It’s like, opening it up to the potential of angelic forces or, you know, celestial beings and even like the power of the stars to heal us if we can connect with them stuff like in the earth. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Did this church exist 100 years ago? Or is it some kind of new thing that just developed?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It’s new and what that’s actually something that really surprises me is the depth and breadth of the work for how short it is big. In 1935, I think, well, 1930s, there was there was this, six foot five black rubber tapper named, we call master nail, and he was stricken with some shamans. And he had this vision where he was taken up into the Celestial realms, these beautiful kind of heavenly well realms, the Gnostics would call that the pillar aroma. And he met this kind of fusion of the Virgin Mary with the Divine Mother of the cosmos, and the Queen of the Forest, the queen of nature, this, this mother spirit. And she said to him, the Christian doctrine has been completely corrupted across or has been corrupted across the planet. We want you to replant the sacred doctrines in the holy light. And so that’s where the diamonds ceremony started. And I want to make a note on replanting the doctrine, because that’s constantly said throughout master news hymns. And I wondered what that meant until I met another guy, my friend that had been studying Christianity and mushrooms, and there’s some great books about that. John Allegro writes a really good book about that. Do you know the name of that book?

Rick Archer: John Allegro?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, the name of the book like I can. Yeah, I don’t know what either. But you look up Jhana Legro, you’ll find a book about mushrooms in the cross. And he started showing me this friend, all these ancient paintings of Jesus with mushrooms sometimes would be on the the last supper table as the body of Christ. Sometimes often what they would do is they would hide them, they would hide them in if you look at the top of a jar, it’ll be very obvious that it’s a mushroom shape, or in his robes in a lot of St. Michael’s robes, that the mushrooms and some of these are not too subtle.

Rick Archer: The sacred mushroom and the cross 40 Artha. That’s the name of the book, John Allegro al Ali JRO.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, that’s, that’s probably the most famous book on that topic. And these images, it’ll actually have somebody leaning down at the mushroom and winking at you the viewer saying pay attention to this. So in I did get, you know, as we say, it’s like a download and the ceremony ones like yes, this is an ancient practice that the initiates through the other traditions to have have also been using plant medicines, and I call them plant amplifiers to accelerate their evolution, but they’re also dangerous, you know, so you’ve got to do it in a really good setting.

Rick Archer: I was gonna say, I mean, I have a young friend who lives in my town who took an Ayahuasca trip, I think in New York City could have been with you guys. I don’t know. But it totally destabilized her. She’s been in and out of mental hospitals and having all kinds of problems and, and you know, so this stuff is not to be approached without caution.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, I mean just to die May is not Ayahuasca she said she went to Ayahuasca it was probably ayahuasca, apparently so yeah, yeah, I wouldn’t even do Ayahuasca ceremonies anymore. Because even those are two wild west for me the dye may die may drives people crazy, because it’s weird white outfits, we wear little ties, it’s very rigid.

Rick Archer: So you’re not actually ingesting any substances during a diamond ceremony.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: You do, it’s but it’s a version of ayahuasca, it’s like a, it’s got more of the ship crew now more of the DMT plan to take you up. Like you don’t have these visions of the vibe of the vine like you do on iOS Casca. And there’s different beings you work with. There’s different prayers. But yeah, and I liked the rigidity of it, because it’s so safe. Because I go to all these festivals, and all these kids are like, yeah, man, I’m just doing mushrooms, and I just ecstasy and this and that, and this and that. And meanwhile, they’re totally ungrounded their fields are open stuff can get in. And you know, I’m kind of like, have you eaten today? You know, maybe do a little stretching or get grounded?

Rick Archer: Yeah. But I’m sorry, go ahead. Well,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I just wanted to say with the mystery school, so they knew how to create safe containers for this. And it’s across the planet. You know, yoga, I get a little frustrated with yoga classes, say you know, you should not do any, you know, entheogenic substances, because yoga probably started with entheogenic substances with some, you know, that magical elixir that there’s some evidence and may have been mushroom tea, that when that that was lost, they then needed to develop this amazing scientific system of for getting back to the states of consciousness. Well,

Rick Archer: that’s what I was looking up that I actually found unreality sandwich because I knew that there was a verse in the yoga sutras and I found it it goes, cities are born to practices performed in previous birth, or by herbs, emphasis, their Mantra, repetition, asceticism, or by Samadhi. So that’s why Patanjali, who’s the founder of yogo, who many self respecting yoga Yogi would respect and you know, acknowledges as an authority, and as it it’s interesting that aside, which she’ll kind of pique your interest. Patanjali was said to be an incarnation of a divine serpent. You He was an incarnation of Stacia, who is the you see in this Hindu icon iconographies, that 1000 headed snake and Vishnu is reclining on him. Anyway, that’s who Patanjali supposed to be. But obviously,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: churning the cosmic energy of the oh, he’s like, turning the milk of the cosmic see that energy? Yeah. And I mean, if you break, that’s a pretty good concoction for transformation, that one line you read there with the with the different modalities to get there, I think it’s

Rick Archer: just not to say you have to do them all. I mean, you know, I interview people who just woke one day, they were minding their own business and who must, and I often suspect there had been progress made in past lives, which culminated in this awakening. And, you know, Mantra practice over time can, or Mantra meditation of the right kind can unfold, you know, profound degrees of awakening. So there’s a number of there’s, you know, different paths to the same thing. I mean, would you agree, would you, would you say that, like, you know, we should have Ayahuasca 101 In high school, or is it more like, if that’s your path? Maybe you’re gonna gravitate to that, but it’s not necessarily for everybody.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Oh, God, I WASC is not for most people. Right? Okay. I mean, that’s high octane evolution. You It’s like rocket fuel you can get from LA to New York a lot quicker you can blow up in the sky. So I it only people that feel called in you always know it, when they’re called for Ayahuasca. They’re like, I need to do this. If it’s like, I’m sort of thinking about it. Yeah.

Rick Archer: A few months ago, some guy actually offered to buy me a plane ticket to Peru, because he was going down there to take ayahuasca and he wanted me to go with him. And I just felt like safety first. You know, it’s, it’s not my trip. I, I’m not quite close to the possibility for all time, but I just didn’t feel the pull, as you say. I mean, I’ve been meditating for 44 years that’s been serving me. Well, I just didn’t feel like throwing some unknown thing into the mix.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, it’s pretty special.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, I might totally love it. I have no idea but it might also fry some circuits. I’m, you know, I’m a child of the 60s and there were a lot of LSD casualties. And, you know, as I read your book, it’s struck me that I asked him must be different than LSD because if anybody thinks as much LSD as you’ve taken ayahuasca, I wouldn’t be able to conduct an interview with them. I’d be like all over the place.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I tell you I feel I’m so grateful I’m not the 60s. You know, I used to wish I was in that time period because it seems so exciting. But man LSD I think is it’s, it’s, it’s not like when you go to LA like I just saw magic trick or Magic Bus, the documentary about Ken Keyes.

Rick Archer: I haven’t seen it. But no, but can he see Sure.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: There was like, not one word about healing through that entire movie. And they’re all like, Yeah, we’re gonna trip, we’re gonna see these cool things, we’re gonna do this. And I was like, I always thought I wanted to be on that boss. And I’m like, There’s no way I would much rather be in a dime a ceremony. Where it’s safe. It’s healing, I get my I got my life back through diamond, though. Maybe we’ll get into this. But I realized, my whole next book is going to be called warrior healing how illuminated my demons because the black bowling ball that I talked about in the electric Jesus, my next book is discovering what that is, which was a in energy healing. We call this a parasitic astral attachment. It’s an energy parasite that’s stuck in the human body and its spirit possession, quite literally. And I think a lot of people suffering from depression from anxiety, bipolar, especially schizophrenia, hearing voice, I was hearing voices was because of this astral attachment. And it took me it was a three and a half year battle, I was in panic attacks eight to 10 hours a day, in through the domain, through yoga, through deep tissue work. And actually, you know, it really helps us yoga with a deep tissue with the plant amplifier of what we would call Santa Maria, which is sacralized cannabis. In the diary, you pray, you do the rosary, to Santa Maria sacralized, as you can connect with this being and I was able to get my life back in, get my energy body back and the voices went away, and the depression and all these things as I illuminated this demon, and they become an ally. So it’s a little bit we’re going deep here. But I feel really called to this work because I see all these people suffering and they don’t even have a spiritual perspective. So there’s no way to actually treat in an address and treat it, where it’s like, I think if you went to a psychiatrist and said he was suffering bipolar depression, schizophrenia, today, eight panic attacks, and they’re gone. That’s pretty. That’s pretty phenomenal. You know,

Rick Archer: if you went with those symptoms, you just be loaded down a lot of drugs. And, you

Talat Jonathan Phillips: know, yeah, and I tried that route, Rick. I did. I tried some Xanax and some anti. Oh, it was just deadly. deadening?

Rick Archer: Yeah. I remember just one time during my drug days in the 60s, my friend and I took a tranquilizer just for fun, because we didn’t have anything else. And god it was so I didn’t take a lot just took a regular dose. So numb. People live like this.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: But you know, there was a time where numb was good. Like, if I could have gotten numb. That would have been okay, but it didn’t work.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Like, it took all the bliss, even though I didn’t have a lot of bliss in those days. But it was sort of like this flatness that was kind of very distasteful to me,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: very of our culture. You know, the more get into healing, the more I realized it’s multi dimensional and creative, its artistic, its nature based. And we live in such a flat world. That doesn’t honor so much of the different energetic centers in the body. The second chakra, the creative chakra, it’s like you brought up high school, should we be teaching Ayahuasca one to one? Well, I definitely think we need to bring drama back in the music and because just the math and science is actually killing our souls. And another thing on top of that is we’re just not taught how to be human, like how to listen to another person. The bullying in the psycho, psycho psychopathic, popularity contests in the shootings. For me, it’s all just endemic of uninitiated culture.

Rick Archer: And I would say that for some for those for whom it’s their dharma, math and science can be a wonderful, exhilarating, beautiful mystical thing, you know, if you’re cut out for it, but obviously it gets budgeted all that, that becomes the mainstay of of education and the more artistic things get budgeted out. And you know, and that’s deadening for a lot of people. Well, I

Talat Jonathan Phillips: but I think the science is artistic too. Like we never there’s a whole connection between I mean, a volunteer first of all really sandwich people are nuts about science, because it’s so it’s so much about consciousness. I mean, Like especially like designed sciences like Buckminster Fuller. What I’m seeing a little bit it’s, we’re segregating and isolating the sciences. It’s almost like how we create aspirin or something. Whereas we could actually just eat the whole what is aspirin come from a bark or something like

Rick Archer: that? Yeah, does it comes from a tree bark,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: in you know, some of these cultures will actually have the tree bark, and it will cure the headache versus isolating and separating. Because I think if you got the really neat scientists and artists be connecting more, and the scientists are artists, I really liked the Renaissance construct of having a complete education.

Rick Archer: It’s an interesting point you make about the somebody just Skyping me from the poll, I’m gonna put my Skype on Do Not Disturb is a point you make about the plants and extracting their essence and turning it into a pharmaceutical because it’s argued in our VEDA that you really need the whole to really get the intelligence of the plant, you need the whole thing in a synergistic holistic way. And if you just tried to distract, extract that chemically active component and use that as a drug, you missed the whole point, you’ll lose the the overall, if you the intelligence to the planet is lost.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, yeah, I’m sure there’s some DMT enthusiast you know, DMT,

Rick Archer: only through you, mainly, you’re corrupting the man.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I know. Actually some DMT enthusiast out there that would have would argue against that. I have a friend my buddy, Mitch Schultz, he directed this movie called DMT, the spirit molecule, which is getting a lot of traction out there in the certain festival and spiritual counterculture circuits and things like that. I think he’s got over a quarter million Facebook views now. So it’s, the lot of people are smoking DMT. And what happens is, it shoots you out of this, like QAnon Across the Universe, it’s the realms are almost always like animated and wild. And they, they meet spirits they meet the machine nails are quite popular, but it’s all visual and quick and over. And I’ve done DMT twice with very positive experiences, but I don’t know if I do it again. I like Ayahuasca. Well, sidai May and I asked that they have DMT in it, but it’s, it’s not synthesized. You know, it’s done through this cooking process with the vine that has MAO inhibitors, so your your stomach can actually see you can process the DMT and stuff. And instead you get these much longer journeys where healing happens. And I asked Mitch, okay, DMT or ayahuasca, what do you prefer? And he’s like, Oh, I Alaska, even though he did a whole movie on DMT.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, when doubt that comes up in my mind, and I thought of it a lot as I read your book, is that that sounds great. Yeah. It’s like, for instance, ecstasy, MD, whatever. It’s called the MD a bit. Yeah, that acronym. I’ve heard that it sort of mimics serotonin. And it kind of locks up the serotonin receptor receptors in your in your nervous system. But somehow afterwards, you’re less capable of producing your own serotonin. I mean, I might be wrong about this. But I’ve heard that. And I wonder if if the body can’t, I don’t want to I want if the body can be its own Pharmacopoeia to much greater extent than we’re giving it credit here. And that natural, maybe the yogi’s are right, that natural techniques of meditation and other types of things can induce the secretion or the production of these things from within us without having to rely on external substances. But you know, that sounds like too absolutist a statement, because I wouldn’t rule out the external substances, but I’m wanting you to pay a price in terms of your kind of weakening your ability to produce them naturally from within, if you get in the habit of taking them from without, well, I

Talat Jonathan Phillips: think you’ve asked a really great question. Maybe we should give it a couple parts and have a little dialogue around this. Because what I would like to do is give a little context to the MDMA section in that book, and like why it was so important to me, so people, I think they can maybe relate with my story a little more to that I had been a political activist, really fighting in very flamboyant ways. As you know, Rick for reading the book, Johnny America, Johnny America, leading an American Revolution revolution against King George the second in his corporate we just did some very flashy, kind of like Bootsy Collins meets Benjamin Franklin patriots. And when Bush won that second election, I fell into a dark night of the soul I just looking at the planetary situation, you know, three species dying per hour. on the planet, and I was really stuck. And it was too big. I knew for governments for economies for any of the systems we had. So, you know, I was looking for some type of paradigm shift away seeing things differently. And, you know, I looked on all sorts of places and it wasn’t till my 30th birthday where, you know, the line where Jamie says, You need to take some MDMA and get your ass on the dance floor, that I finally got out of my head and in my heart and connected with community in this higher vibrational way. It was like the red pill in the matrix, deprogramming me from this parasitic, hierarchical dominance, very cruel paradigm that we were brought up and unconscious of in this society. And there’s just a lot of joy and beauty here too. But it’s, it’s a death system. Generally speaking of the way these systems are set up, at least, where we’re at in the stage of evolution, societal evolution. And they imagined DNA activated my heart chakra and activated my third eye.

Rick Archer: So it was a catalyst it kick started you is a catalyst.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: But that said, Do I do MDMA anymore? No.

Rick Archer: I that was my experience. Back in the 60s, first time I smoked grass. First time I dropped acid, it was like it was a major shift. But after a year of doing it, I was I had dropped out of high school, I was a total mess. I was paranoid, I was confused, you know. And so you can see why I have a little bit of skepticism, or at least about continuing usage. And I think a lot of people, they get started and they don’t stop until they’ve done a lot of damage to themselves.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, and then a lot of people use it responsibly, it creates some of the most magical moments in my life, or in theory, entheogens and sex, those awesome moments in my life that I keep going back to.

Rick Archer: So how have you met people who’ve like been doing ecstasy for years now? And it’s obviously taken a toll.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Not so much. The ones I’ve seen are some of the kids in the 90s that were doing meth with raves, meth, of course, I’ve seen I really think meth and cocaine have a very demonic, there’s demonic energies associated with them and to get off heroin to. And to get off of those in the irony is sometimes to get off of them. You need to do entheogens, not MDMA, but IO Oska, who Boga the Root Bark in the Amazon is very good at getting people off heroin addicts. There’s a great movie called Dangerous with love. My buddy Dimitri. And this guy’s like a classic New Yorker. And he was going to kill himself for it because he couldn’t beat his heroin addiction. He’s like, I’m fine degrees. I’m doing a Boga and then I’m gonna kill myself. Well, guess what, three days of a Boga he was off. And then he started doing a bogus ceremonies with other addicts with some success. And some, you know, some can break the habit. But I want to talk about MDMA, because there’s something really cool going on with it right now is map maps is tracking this a lot. Multiple association of Psychedelic Studies. I think I messed that up, but it’s up maps. And they’re helping fund research with Iraq veterans that came back with PTSD in a very serious, and they’re working with MDMA therapy, for healing that and the results are off. It’s just off the hook is, as the young kids would say, it’s off the hook. And like, there’s a lot of healing very positive results. But that I think that’s the thing that I love. I don’t just like, I don’t do entheogens in a recreational manner anymore. Therapeutic or ceremonial contexts. I think it can be really great. And, Rick, I want to say one more thing is I have a very serious spiritual practice yoga meditation in the domain is a very serious, serious feel.

Rick Archer: I gather that Yeah, sure. I mean, you’re not. You’re not sitting around. We do.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: We do meditations. You know, there’s all sorts of spiritual work that goes on in there. Yeah. Yeah. No,

Rick Archer: I’m not accusing you of just being some kind of druggie. I’m just saying, I’m concerned that, you know, probably most of the people who would listen to this aren’t gonna go off the deep end, but I’m just concerned about the general notion out there in the culture that, you know, you can just do this stuff indiscriminately without any consequences. Okay. It has to be put into some kind of more serious context, as you’re saying.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: The worst results I’ve seen as far as I was, or the basement shamans. Yeah, good stuff site. They’re gonna order this online and do it at home. Fortunately, usually, it just doesn’t work. Because it gets some kind of bogus thing, saying, or maybe the dialogue is just like, No, I’m not. Nothing’s gonna happen with this because it’s the spirit or they get their ass kicked. Those are pretty much the two that I’ve I’m sure there’s some people that have had good experiences, but generally I’ve not heard heard that many great experiences from that?

Rick Archer: Yeah. Incidentally, I just want to mention in passing that the Department of Defense just awarded a two and a half million dollar grant to the TM researchers for using TM to deal with PTSD. Also Transcendental Meditation.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, wow. I just I just read this quote from the Dalai Lama, that’s probably pretty famous. But he said, he said, If we taught every child meditation, war would be over in like, a decade or two.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I interviewed someone last week. And she was saying how, after her awakening, there was such a huge change in her health, you know, she just didn’t get stressed. She could. She’s from Florida, but she could find she could drive in a snowstorm alongside big trucks and not be in the least bit tense or stress and feel totally relaxed when she got home and her health, you know, pain that she had from an old skiing accident completely disappeared and stuff. And I commented, boy, you know, think what that could do to the healthcare budget if everyone could be like you. But then afterwards, I thought, Yeah, but what could it also do to the military budget, and a lot of these other budgets were huge amounts of money are wasted on stuff that wouldn’t even be happening if people were living in higher consciousness.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, it feels like these things are transforming. I’d love to see the gun laws, I was in a ceremony and our one of our leaders prayed that we changed the gun, the gun laws transform, which is a different I’ve never heard transforming gun laws put together in the same sentence. It’s not saying we’re gonna get rid of this remove this. We’re going to transform the consciousness around it.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, on your theme that you mentioned in the book at times of feelings, perhaps pessimistic because the the powers that apparently be are so dominant and so intractable and what can little plainly isolated outcroppings of Awakening people do about them?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Really, right. But

Rick Archer: yeah,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: but also like negative?

Rick Archer: Well, I just wanted to mention that subtle is more powerful, you know. And that if you’re operating from a deeper level, you have a lot more leverage, than if you’re operating on the surface. And we’ve seen throughout history, radical changes take place, time and again, in society. And I don’t know if we can exactly say why they took place, but they do take place. And, you know, if we went back 150 years, none of us could none of the people living then could have imagined what life was going to be like today. And in many respects, it’s a lot better today than it was there obviously some bad things, but you know, try having a tooth extracted 150 years old, or something like that? Or try being a woman try being black or Yeah, exactly in the US. So these monumental changes have taken place, and everyone seems to say the pace of change is accelerating. So, you know, within even my lifetime, what to say of yours, we could see a world which which, you know, we can barely imagine now, I’d like to think living in

Talat Jonathan Phillips: a world I never imagined I always was already here. And now I’m doing healing works where a multi dimensional guide that feels angelic comes in and shoots energy through my heart to put through my hands to someone else. This is for me, this is it’s not just spiritual sci fi stuff. Yeah. And that’s my daily practice. And I know a lot of people are waking up and experiencing God consciousness or whatever they might call it in their lives. In the diamond shirts. What’s coming through now is one of the heads of our church. He’s not like the Pope or anything. He’s like a guy that plays guitar with you in ceremonies. But his new Norio his hymn book that’s come through is called Nova demand sow new dimension. And it’s literally a study of a new energetic dimension that is coming into the planet. In my book, I hinted this, but I hadn’t really gotten a taste of what it was too much of a lot of Yogi’s say we’re in the third chakra right now. This yellow chakra, it’s masculine, it’s achievement, willpower, you know, we went and 10,000 years from planting seeds in the ground to splitting the atom seeing Hubble telescope showing us all this crazy stuff about the universe. But now, these fires of this masculine charge are pushing us into the heart center where healing is and integration love. And that’s the gateway to spirit and this is where spirit and matter connect. Now, what I’m seeing is we’re getting a lot of help come in now in esoteric circles, and it’s just like you said, right, like it’s subtle when I can really get out of my head and into my heart. That’s when the guide will come in and work with my hands. But if I’m even just a little bit in my thought process, you won’t come in and I’m a much worse healer when that happens. much better when it’s quiet in in the heart and centered and subtle. But I feel a lot of people are activating like this and things they never thought would have happened or happening now. And I’m sure there’s folks out there on this call. So maybe like, This guy’s a little crazy, and others are like, wow, I’m going through this.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I’ve had people get in touch with me last you have, who have, you know, had never even thought about this kind of stuff. And all of a sudden, they’ll wake up one morning, with some strange energy starting to rise up their spine, and it’s getting more and more powerful. And, and next, I’m referring to a woman named Sarojini, who’s interviewed can find on my site. And, you know, they’ll start researching on the Internet, and they’ll stumble across Kundalini, and they’ll think they have Kundalini disease. And then they’ll realize, no, it’s not a disease. It’s something spiritual and spiritual. I was never spiritual. Why is this happening to me, you know, but anyway, this kind of stuff is just kind of cropping up and people who sometimes have no thought of it, and just they’re waking up.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, and I bet you’re doing real service for providing isn’t a great we have this alternative media. So here, we don’t have to go if that if we just had to go through the mainstream mechanism. Yeah, this wouldn’t be out there. But this is where science is consciousness of a really good friends. Absolutely. Technology. When I was researching my book, right. I’m looking at all these Gnostic texts, which would have got me killed reading. Yeah, you know, just Burnett the state just a few centuries ago, you know, where he did most of my research with Christian writings.com. You can find all these ancient texts that would have got you killed, like for free, right there on the web.

Rick Archer: I was reading this just the other day about this Christians, priest who got burned at the stake for suggesting to suggesting that maybe the little wafer they use in Catholicism wasn’t literally the bulk of the Body of Christ. It was just symbolic in some way. They burned them at the stake.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: And that gets into a huge theme of my book, which is this literalist Christianity that’s just so narrow and unforgiving and unChristian. Yeah. And how frustrated the Gnostics were in this, of like, because they were the torchbearers holding this ancient lineage. And then, as I say, because of these historical reasons, mainly the second Jewish revolts in Israel, and the Roman Empire clamping down and then everyone scattering, then a third of the population died, that this mystery school that fractured, and you had all these literalist churches that came up out of it. And that’s where you get the Roman Catholic Church. And eventually, you have the bishops, calling the Gnostics the ones that were actually holding that Christ consciousness. heretics. Yeah. And in the Gnostics were really upset by this thing, that they’re frustrated, you know, the text, it just seems they’re frustrated, these people are claiming the name of Christ without knowing the Christ within.

Rick Archer: The problem is that mystics don’t make good administrators. And so non mystics always rise up into administrative positions and start to throw their weight around and make it hard for the more sensitive deep people. Okay,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I mean, that’s a weird thing to say. And I think about it all the time. Yeah, at comment, because the right wingers are very good at powers and structures in, you know, creating giant conventions with 100,000 people and mega churches with 10,000 people. You know, I even look at the diamond, we’re like, scattered groups of, you know, centers here and there.

Rick Archer: And the best lefties can do is kadhi Park, sitting around beating drums. But yeah,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: eventually they get the cops there and but we keep coming back and we get stronger. And I think we need to start creating these systems is something I see very powerfully, maybe you’ve been tracking this to Rick is the festival culture.

Rick Archer: You mean like Burning Man and stuff.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Burning Man, Lightning in a Bottle transformative festivals are exploding across the planet right now. And people are going there and seeing a whole different way to be human. EO and what I love about Burning Man is, you know, I have that. One of my favorite chapters is that Burning Man scene called the first extraterrestrial city on Earth, but it’s like for those that haven’t gotten I’d like to just give you a vision of Burning Man, which is it’s now I think it’s 50,000 people. They go and it’s not about commerce, there’s no commerce, no logos. You can’t there’s not even barter. It’s a gift economy. Z you give things from your heart and and people go and create At these camps that are the camps of their dreams, and you can go into any of these camps and there might be a yoga camp, there might be a dance camp. Amaze camp. I’ve seen homemade roller coasters. It’s crazy what people come up with

Rick Archer: a whiskey camp. I heard that with guitars. Seems like you have a whole whole spectrum out there.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I mean, part of the grosses is there’s one called poor today. So you really could shoot your own adventure. You can go to like healers and get a quick Saj or you can go to porn and eggs and you might get what you’re looking for it. But there’s not so much judgment. And it’s just the synchronicities out there because it’s such a higher vibrational consciousness. There’s not these walls and limits and competition. It just flows and it’s crazy. You’ll be like, Man, I wish I had an orange right now at some dude on like a tricycle. Juggling oranges will throw you one. It happens all the time. It’s like magic out there.

Rick Archer: I’ve experienced that kind of thing. Just really unusual things that you think like I’ll tell you a quick story just for kicks.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I was actually going to hit you up for a story so good.

Rick Archer: Okay, so I was in this meditation facility in upstate New York and I had moved and didn’t have any things I wanted certain things I wanted to Brasco and to clean my puja set and a few odds and ends but one really unusual and I also wanted a pair of decorative shoe buckles for a pair of Florsheim shoes because I’d gotten them wet and they expanded and the buckles had broken off. And so I was moved from one room to the other to another. And in that room, the previous occupant had left behind everything I wanted, except for the decorative shoe buckles, of course, which were pretty weird if he had left a pair of those. Yeah, that night I was walking to dinner and something caught my eye on top of an air conditioner in the hallway. I looked up there. And there was a pair of decorative shoe buckles that I was able to attach to my shoes and boom, you know, they weren’t the buckles I had lost it was like why would those have been there? It wasn’t that interesting.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I’m not even sure a decorative shoe Buckle. It was a pair of dressy

Rick Archer: shoes that had like these little metal buckles on them the Florsheim shoes from I was wearing a suit and tie back in those days as a TM teacher back in the 70s. But, but you know, that was like, Okay, who organized that for me?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, so like, I Rick, I hear that and like I’m like synchronicity and skepticism. My girlfriend would be like 100% synchronicity. And I know her life opens up more than mine because she’s just, if you believe everything’s a synchronicity, it I think it rolls better. But where do you lie on the synchronicity, skeptical realm as far as that situation? Well,

Rick Archer: in that particular instance, I just felt like it was a sort of like, I almost envisioned, you know, magical little Gremlins running around doing things and, you know, laying chips on people. And they had, they had somehow picked up on my thought, and somehow, it had been organized to put a little pair of shoe buckles on top of that air conditioner. I don’t know, obviously human being probably put them there. But why and what motivated the human being to do it, perhaps a little Gremlins, that picked up on my thought.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: You know, if for some reason this divisive, bioenergetic therapy is the same as Dream Therapy, the rules work the same, because it is the same. This is the waking dream. And you know, so I hear that I’m like, wow, that’s cool, creative waking dream, maybe maybe really is manifesting these things, and the universe is conspiring with you. It I actually think that’s what’s happening on this planet right now. If you pay attention to the news, things can seem pretty dire. But the universe is conspiring to help us wake up and really bring the light to this planet, the amount of beings I also think there are a lot of shadow beings that need illumination and are causing suffering. Actually, could I share a story about shadow beings in the sense of timing?

Rick Archer: Absolutely. Yeah. I’ve had in the back of my mind to ask you more about that. So let’s, let’s do that.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I mean, the reason I went to Santa diabase, because I realized there’s this astral attachment, and I wanted to heal and they have this tradition where the one of the formalizes the church. Padrino Sebastiao is his name and it’s the WSDL and he actually died on St. Sebastian day. So pretty. He’s kind of a mythical guy in a way. He has this giant almost like foo Manchu beard going on food Manchus. All right. Yes. Big beard. Okay. Yeah. Big, big white beard.

Rick Archer: Let’s, let’s think. What’s that was that grew from Texas? ZZ Top. ZZ Top. One of those guys. Incidentally, as a meditation teacher, ZZ Top guy, you’re hitting Billy Billy Gibbons. He was on a TM teacher training course in Majorca, Spain back in early 70s. Anyway, I’m getting you off the track.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: The same guys that we’re seeing legs appreciate like, yeah, we’re not gonna go off topic because I mean, seriously Sebastiao looks a little bit like he’s moonshining. And it’s weird to be like, That’s my spiritual mentor, because he passed through such a difficult path. And he gave me hope where no one else can give me hope. I’ve been to so many healers. So yeah, we’ll get this attachment out. You know, I probably spent 1000s of dollars on hypnotherapy, you name the modality I’ve done it. In Sebastiao, the story is in the early 80s, there was a sorcerer in the Amazon. And I mean, if people have been the Amazon, with Hiawassee, especially be very careful. There are so many of these sorcerers and dark shamans. And there’s a lot of great healers, too. But there was a sorcerer who was possessed by a demon called Mr. Tonko. Rua in trnka. Row means block block path.

Rick Archer: Hang on one second, I just want to provide a context for this discussion of demons. Okay, okay. You know, because it might be pushing some buttons or stretching some boundaries for some of my listeners who might think of all that as just fanciful, imaginary stuff. I’m always talking about intelligence in these interviews and how intelligence permeates the universe and orchestrates and conducts everything. But obviously, if we’re talking about a manifest universe, we’re talking about polarities and opposites. And if there is, kind of, we could say, Positive Intelligence, then there’s also negative intelligence, and even traditionally mythological, you have the gods and the demons battling with each other, and so on. And those stories just are relating to we could say, organizing principles or laws of nature, which are, are functioning at subtle levels and making kind of keeping the universe rolling. And there there are all always these polarities. So, you know, when you ask, Well, how could children be sold into sex slavery or something, there’s obviously some dark energy, some dark intelligence, influencing that kind of behavior. And so anyway, that’s my context for understanding when we talk about demons and, and, you know, light beings and, and all this stuff, they’re just there are subtler levels of creation, which don’t ordinarily meet the eye, and that but are nonetheless as real as trees and cars and people that we see walking around. And this stuff has, you know, it’s all across the spectrum in terms of positivity, negativity, and, and it all serves a function. I mean, it’s not like you could have all positivity and have a universe. It all serves a function. So anyway, that’s my context, go for it.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I think that was great explanation, it really aligns with the demais cosmology. So yeah. We are going into some strange territory, it was definitely strange for me and just so you know, the domain. The first thing is understanding when it’s what’s being in what’s you discernment is the number one thing and it’s where the being in you connect where your stuff and where your stuff meets. That’s where the battle spot for light and love because it’s a fight of reunion. Because I could actually discern there was another being or energy consciousness or dark energy intelligence attached to me, I could finally work with it. That was like the the changing point. And that’s the changing point for a lot of my healing practices is recognizing these forces. So But anyways, there was this sorcerer that’s possessed by tronco Rua and very powerful demon we see in the DI Mei is they run in failing says quite often, there’s kind of like a head one. And then there’s other ones that are in this line that gangs, gangs, just like, just like, I live in New York City, there’s gangs here, and often they have leaders, right. In fact, they act in a similar way. They’re just beings like we’re being, you know, in fact, the Bing I was working with was much like a gangster a little bit like a pimp in a way. So trucker, Rua came in with this sorcerer. The sorcerer was drinking dynamite for this beating, but it was too intense and he actually died in this process. The sorcerer, the sorcerer did and so Trumka Roy, then possessed Sebastiao and it was a nine and a half month battle where it Sebastio was puking up blood.

Rick Archer: trunk or was the demon the bad guy?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah. And Samatha in this car in this moment in time, he’s the bad guy,

Rick Archer: right? Okay.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It’s it’s the light in the dark coming to me. And Sebastian Tao is the he’s the formulator of the diamond, and trunk rule over a series in Sebastiao got hospitalized all these things, but over time conquer, Rua eventually illuminated, it was a process. You know, it wasn’t overnight, but he had healed some and heal some more. And then when he illuminated, he said, I’m illuminating. But I, and I want you to help my other lost brothers and sisters out there. And that’s where we became. That’s where the mediumship work started of illuminating dark themes. And when you eliminate a dark being, it heals yourself, it heals them, and it heals you. And so the diamond is constantly talking about the spiritual war we’re in. But it’s unlike any other war we’re used to, because it’s a war of love. And it’s a war where the loser heals and wins, if they call it a war of the great unification. And so there are lines in the there’s actually illumination works and some of the hymns will talk about uniting the positive and the negative, just like you said, to become friends, very interesting, spiritual alchemy, just like the ancient mystery schools, they were all about spiritual alchemy of the light, light in the dark.

Rick Archer: You know, in the Vedic tradition, they have a lot of stories like that where some rather highly evolved being, maybe even close to Enlightenment will be born as a demon in order to be Krishna as enemy, let’s say, and there’ll be this big battle and Krishna will finally kill the demon. And in that moment, the demon will get enlightened. And it was that, you know, that was the way and Ramana and the Ramayana Robina was this great, highly evolved being master of all this wisdom and knowledge, but he was demonic. And yet, when he was finally killed by Rama, that was his full Enlightenment, and that was just the path he took to finish the finish the journey

Talat Jonathan Phillips: that is an integrated approach, right, that’s holistic right there. Even the demons. And I mean, the dark guide, and I have to say it’s as much for two years I woke up in wanting to kill myself. That was in my whole mission every day was Do not kill yourself, because what do we see in the diamonds? Worst things can happen?

Rick Archer: You can then killing yourself. I mean, yeah, if

Talat Jonathan Phillips: you if you kill yourself what you can and worse states. And we’ve done a lot of work in helping those those those beings out of those spaces, but it was a guy, what a teacher, I learned so much my healing practice is not I would have been probably one of these kind of cheesy Reiki guys that, you know, oh, we’re gonna channel in the dolphins now or this? Because I had such a deep, difficult teacher. I feel like my healing practice just is that much more rewarding now?

Rick Archer: So they’re difficult teacher was this demonic intelligence that you? Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Outside of my guide, it was, it was the most powerful guide I’ve I’ve had in my practice. And when I do bioenergetic healing work, we start with finding what the light guidance and the shadow guide for the evolution of each each person

Rick Archer: that kind of puts all traumatic and difficult experiences that human beings go through in a different context, doesn’t it? I mean, you know, if we do live in a sort of a benign universe, that’s a giant evolution machine that really wants every all life forms to move along toward higher consciousness, then why does all this negative stuff happened? Is that is that sort of flirting the purpose? Well, maybe in the big picture, it’s actually serving the purpose by strengthening us or you’re giving us certain knowledge and wisdom that we wouldn’t have if everything were just smooth and rosy.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, I just, do you know, Alex Grey. The visionary

Rick Archer:  Yeah, I’ve looked at his pictures and heard that your friend of his

Talat Jonathan Phillips: yeah, I was just spent a weekend up at his chapel of sacred mirrors. And he was, I love it. He has a beautiful, beautiful, it’s very scary, but also beautiful painting about spirit possession. And we were talking about as an evolutionary force, we were looking at this painting, and he was describing it as a slingshot. Because you know that negative energy, you pull it back like this. But then when it’s ready to go, it’s just you know, it’s a very powerful evolutionary forest. If, if you don’t fall under the victimization of it.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, that’s interesting. I mean, you hear about alcoholics bottoming out. And, you know, I kind of bottomed out my own experience before I turned around, I really did slingshot back in the other direction. I mean, within a couple of months after giving up drugs and learning to meditate, I had gotten back into school and gotten into college and gotten a job and reconciled with my father and just all this positive. So it was much more contrasting than it might have been if I just been kind of muddling along.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, yeah. It’s a challenge to if we don’t hear this, like our medical system, has a very victim mentality. You come in the doctor knows everything. I get very frustrated with a lot of doctors because they don’t even ask questions sometimes. And you know, it’s very victim, like, base, the technique doesn’t empower people where so that’s what my next book is going to be called warrior healing, because that’s my healing practices. Like, if I didn’t step up in some sense of warriorship spiritual worship. I don’t think I would have got through that passage. Yeah, and I just see it with a lot of, you know, the clients I work with these days, it’s just, you know, I thought it was just me, just the vast amount of suffering. And then, that there’s actually trajectory to get out of it is pretty incredible.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, I mean, all the myths support this, don’t they? I mean, there’s always a sort of a rite of passage. And it’s, it’s actually institutionalized in certain cultures where the young man has to go through these trials and tribulations and fasting and sun ceremonies and all kinds of things in order to pass in, into adulthood. I mean, even birth is a rite of passage of time.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It is it’s all kind of it we live in a mythic realm and we don’t realize it like when I when I heard of when I started hearing and reading the hymns about Sebastian Tao. And you know, here’s the Saint Sebastian and here’s trunk of Ruin St. Sebastian in the past was tortured by being or he was tortured, right? Died horrifically it here’s the the light in the dark come into this epic battle of union. And then you know this happens. And then he dies on St Sebastian damn sicknesses, mythic territory. But just like you say, it’s in our own lives, our own lives, these mythic epic journeys. In sometimes we don’t even realize it like with bioenergetics. Say, like you get someone gets in a fight with their wife. And you think it’s this mundane thing. When you slow down the slow down the energy and look at it. It’s drama, there’s so much going on. It’s such actually a beautiful learning landscape and playground to to evolve with, if you start paying attention.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And if you don’t run out the door and slam it behind you, and you know, go off and find a new wife and do that six dozen times over and over again looking for Yeah, if you actually anchor yourself and face the music and learn the lessons that are being presented you that can some real growth can come out of it.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Right? Yeah. In your you’re married break, right?

Rick Archer: Yes.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: How long have you been married?

Rick Archer: 26 years? Almost.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah. You sound like a lot of work. Just recognizing that it’s pretty accretive. Oh, yeah, you don’t keep you know, perpetuating the wound and projecting it on different, you know, different partners.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I always I mean, not always, but over time, I’ve grown more and more appreciative of the fact that everything I’m experiencing has is my teacher, you know, it has some lesson to some valuable lesson if I can only take it to heart.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah. So can I ask you a question? 26 years? How have you learned to just like, accept and love yourself in a long term relationship like that?

Rick Archer: Well, I don’t know. I guess well, firstly, I have a spiritual practice, which I find very nourishing. And I, I feel like I’ve learned a lot of patience. And you can you can react to something in a moment of impatience, that can have repercussions for days, or you can just, you know, be patient. And within five minutes, the whole thing is completely gone. And, you know, I do, I do have a spiritual practice, as I said, which I find extremely rejuvenating, and, you know, gives me a clean slate twice a day. And so there’s not a lot of harm to my, as far as I’m aware, there’s not a tendency to accumulate and harbor, resentments and things. It’s like, Every moment is new. I’m not sure if I’m answering your question, but that’s what comes to mind.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, I think that answered it really well. I think those five minutes of patience,

Rick Archer: that’s even five seconds, sometimes it’s you know, that saying this too, shall pass. It does. And, you know, no, which is not to say that a person should sort of hang if if they’re in an abusive relationship or something that they should just hang in there for decades. I mean, there can be situations that action needs to be taken, but I’ve just always had a deep intuitive sense that I’m where I’m supposed to be. And you know, things my the course of my life is, almost I can say, divinely guided. There’s like, if I look back a decade ago, 234 decades ago, I never could have anticipated what I would have been doing a decade later. But it’s always kind of worked out better than if I had been the guy that was working all out all the details. You know, with my limited perspective, it’s like a traffic cop can kind of see the whole flow of traffic and tell this cars to go this way. And that whereas an each individual driver might not make the best decisions. And I just sort of feel like there’s some kind of cosmic traffic cop that’s calling the shots to a great extent in my life. And I’ve learned to trust that and flow with it. And I’m always pleased with the outcome.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Cosmic traffic traffic cop that’s a good light for the teaser of the podcast, right. Rick and a lot talk about DMT in cosmic Yeah. Yeah. You know, I’m also just asking because I had suffered from possession for so long. In I had a violent mother growing up.

Rick Archer: I had an alcoholic father. Yeah. And so I project

Talat Jonathan Phillips: all these like nose onto my girlfriend’s still. They’re turning into yeses. It’s just like, I’m having a relationship like I’ve never had before having cleared beings and that I in, you know, it’s there’s this this beautiful opening happening of, of changing the whole construct of what relationship is to me. But sometimes, Rick, I still, I don’t when that five minutes.

Rick Archer: Oh, yeah. I mean, neither do I, you know, it’s, you know, we’re all bozos on this bus as FIRESIGN theatre who was before your time used to say, Who is this great comic, comedian group called FIRESIGN. Theatre, you can probably find old recordings of him or something. And they’re back in the 60s. That was one of their lines were all bozos on this bus.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Where were was it actually televised, there was a, they had

Rick Archer: record albums out. And I imagine they did, you know, actual shows where they presented their stick on. On stage. You’re good? What about? You have anything? I have a question, I can lead us off at a whole new direction. But okay, so so the whole idea of

Talat Jonathan Phillips: You’re the cosmic traffic cop.

Rick Archer: I just have a remnant question from what we have been talking about before I take us off in another direction that you’ve talked about, you know, actual possession by some negative entity that in your own experience, do you feel like everyone has that almost to some extent, maybe some major, some minor? But do you feel like we’re as, as a species riddled with little, just as they say, you know, we all have cancer in our body. But for most of us, our immune system takes care of it, you sort of feel like we’re there are sort of negative impulses of intelligence, ingrained in everyone’s makeup, which makes us the mixed bags that we are, which, that’s the way it works.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I think there’s, everyone’s got light and shadow. And so there’s the mix, there’s the light and the dark intelligences, the beings. Another being is a little different. It’s like a past, you know,

Rick Archer: parasite,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: parasite, we I don’t think we think of our energetic system. It’s like, there’s dimensions, the amount of space and complexity in the energetic body is huge. It’s, it’s like ecosystems. And so there be many beings in an ecosystem. And we see that with our body anyways, with the bacteria and stuff like that, in some ways, I, to be honest, I feel frustrated, I feel like I’m a doctor in the 1850s with an electron microscope, telling people, there are these invisible things that are causing illness, you can’t see them. But from the evidence, it’s making this happen, and they’re called germs. And on the quantum level, there are these kind of parasitic forces that we can’t see yet because we don’t have the spiritual our advanced technology, I think one day well, the technology to to invite like frequency, things like this a little more Star Trek II, but they can, can change the frequency of these intelligence as much quicker. I feel like I had to do a little bit of the medieval approach to get through this, you know, like, like a bloody bloodletting or something like that.

Rick Archer: But like yourself, you know, you began seeing auras and subtle energies quite a few years ago. And, you know, there must be a whole range of potential development in that type of thing that you know, there could be a very first inklings of it. And then there could be full blown capability, which you might see God knows what you know. And then there could be the whole dimension of actually being able to do something about it. Not just seeing it, but being able to do something about it. And so somebody like Christ, who You know, he could cast out demons or someone just touches his cloak from behind and gets healed. Obviously, he’s well beyond just seeing the subtle realms of life, he’s in a position to actually be a master of those realms. And, and so, you know, in terms of healing and that kind of thing you’re mentioning.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, he’s he’s a true divine son. He understands himself in his divine inheritance. So there’s no fear. The indictment, the connection is the protection. He’s connected. Yeah, but so I think most people have, like, just honestly, from the work in the diving, and it happens every time. New people come in, they see the mediumship work they’ve like, that’s your own stuff. You’re crazy that beings not really, because they come through people and speak. It means like, Fuck you, I hate you kill all of you, right? And then a dime, a person will come up and say, Welcome, brother, welcome for your healing, we’re here to help you. And they don’t believe it for a long time. And then suddenly, they start to heal. What my being did is you just started bowing at the cross and crying and saying, You fucked up and he’s really sorry. It’s so it’s a, it’s a process of redemption. And it was weird as Brian being came through, and he was fighting and angry. And then he goes to the cross, and he’s, he starts picking himself up, take care of you. He threw me. Yeah, so he’s in my body doing this, he sees the cross, He proves himself up. And then he just starts illuminating himself and out of joy starts jumping up and down as the freedom of like, the spiritual symbol in the power of it, and illuminated himself. And I’ve never I stood on Jesus issues I’ve never thought of the cross is a fun liberating force, until that moment, and then I saw the joy of spiritual freedom. Because these beings in these hell realms are really trapped and locked up and damaged the traumatize beings, you see, into the Slough, and you have so much compassion for them, because you just see even though the hurting other people, they’re suffering so much, they’re so shut down. They’ve been in really bad spaces they haven’t, where they need to hit nurturing. They found punishment and torture and these things. So you help them open? In turn the no to a yes. But what I’m saying with this is, people that first come into the diamond, they’re like, No, that’s, that’s you and your stuff, there’s no way and eventually their mediumship opens up and that weird tick, they have the depression, the eating disorder, that addictions, addictions, you know, that’s a such a big one with these entities, they come out and speak. And the great thing about bringing it into the into the room in a safe context is now you can work with it. Now you’re bringing light when it’s back there, man, it can really mess your your stuff up. When you’re like, Okay, we’re gonna bring you in and work with you, you can see what they’re doing, what their intentions are, you can start like sending them love. And they lose their power in the light. And they gain a different kind of beauty. I just thought of it like an art project of you start turning death into life and beauty, flowers, energetic flowers.

Rick Archer: And interesting analogy is, you know, how do you get rid of the darkness in a room? Do you analyze it, you fight it do like, you know, trying to push it out somehow? Or no, you flick the light on? And where’d it go? It’s gone. You know, you just brought light to it. And at the end of the darkness,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I wrote a Facebook post saying I think I just started to understand spiritual alchemy better and that the light, as they say, In the day is way more powerful than the dark. And so many people agree with me, but so many people were like, No, that’s an ignorant statement, you know, light and dark or even in this but I think your analogy kind of shows the point.

Rick Archer: Join me Look, and together we will move the universe.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: How? I think as far as all the time, it’s a journey. You know how Luke was like, I have to face Vader again. Like I had to go back to ceremony to face my Vader. But what happens in the end, you take off the the, the mask and he’s like crumbled, wounded guy. That’s what that’s what they found was trunk of Rua, he was crippled. He was a crippled old guy that needed a lot of healing underneath the demonic mask that he was wearing.

Rick Archer: I heard a Bill Moyers show in which Joseph Campbell talked about that scene. Joseph was friends with George Lucas and it’s a treat you really have to go back and listen to Bill Moyers conversations with with Joseph Campbell.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Oh, we just say what they said though.

Rick Archer: Oh, no, just I’m just commenting he Yeah, I don’t even remember the specifics. But you know, there was There’s so much wisdom and mythology in the Star Wars series, you know, and you know, so many profound kind of symbols that took place throughout the whole thing.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, at least the first three. I don’t know.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it got a little weird after that, because Joseph Campbell died. I don’t know,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: totally. You know, when you know what you can see this just the Campbell ones every time they do a fun drive for PBS, they play, they play, because they know it’s just gold.

Rick Archer: Now, one theme that comes up prominently in your book is the whole theme of extraterrestrials. Which, again, there’s all kinds of silly New Age Ogopogo about that, but I think you treat it in a responsible fashion. And, you know, in my own experience, it was something that dawned on me in around 1980 or so that this is part of the equation in terms of the evolution of our planet, and that there actually is something going on there. Not through any direct experiences like you’ve had, but just kind of hit me and rang true. So how does how does that tie in with everything else you’ve been talking about? Yeah.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I mean, it’s funny, because the last three years, that for maybe four years, that has not been my journey, but for that entire book was a phase. Yeah, it was it was very prominent, and I didn’t put it in the first like five drafts of the book. It was only like the book had been accepted. And Daniel Pinchbeck, the author of 2012, the return to capsule quarterly, he was my one of my editors, he still told me, We can’t publish it, because you’re not being honest enough. He’s like, You got to put in your shadow stuff, your messy relationships, everything you don’t want to put in the book is what’s gonna make it interesting. And I’m glad I did it, because I think it’s much more relatable book. But the hardest thing was coming out of the Galactic closet. You know, because people, people can handle spirituality and consciousness. But like, as I say, like when you drop the a bomb, you just the alien, you become one of those freaks. And that’s that was my perspective. But yeah, the first time I started seeing energy fields, and I took MDMA, I was in my room. And as soon as it clicked on, I felt this myself realizing, Oh, you can see things this way. And then I was given one word, and the Word was alien. And so throughout the experience, it’s kind of this opening to some type of galactic guidance of perhaps beings that may have been initiated in another planetary realm and are helping ascension process here on this planet. I don’t know. I mean, my theory, I have various theories. One is if you can believe in reincarnation or transmutation of souls, then it’s very probable just like you’ve had many lifetimes here, maybe it’s like, you know, an Eskimo and European and potato farmer, whatever it is, you may have had some experiences on some other planets. Guidance I do keep getting is that the universe is just so much weirder than we possibly imagined. I also think we may have connections to these different lineages, if you will, in my book, there’s a there’s a huge thing about lineage that comes up in it that you never, I don’t hear an extraterrestrial phenomenon. It’s usually this kind of 1950s Like, abduction story, and this was more of like, inheriting certain genetic or energetic coding that makes you it’s like ancestral. And just like, in us we can be, we’re really big mutts, you know, it’s Irish, German, English, Kenyan, Cherokee, whatever, we may have these different associations to certain other star systems, if you follow the lineage back far enough, and I think the Earth is a very magical planet that’s connected to the rest of the cosmos.

Rick Archer: And how much of all that you just said, and other things you might say, are just speculations that you have been playing with or maybe gleaning from various books, and how much of it was inspired by your direct experience?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I’d say most of that. Not too much from books. I can’t think of many books that are like this, can you?

Rick Archer: I’ve read things along the lines of what you you were just saying, I couldn’t name you a book, but there are people who kind of, you know, posit, for instance, that are human beings are basically from another planet in general and some early explorers from someplace else colonize the earth and maybe in interbred with the beings that were here and so on. And that’s what we are today, but who knows?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, most of those books Sadhak read though or seem like really woowoo sloppily channel books like, and I mean I love like Barbara Han cloud. But I mean, she basically says the moon is made of things that it’s not made of. And it’s just she’s like it and so I lose my confidence because for me it’s also it’s still scientific still energetics. You know, it’s complicated advanced string theory stuff, but it’s there.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I think a lot of it was intuitive, maybe Daniels 2012 book with crop circles inspired it. Most of it was experiential.

Rick Archer: So do you feel now then that, you know, some sort of x not only subtle into, I mean, there’s way various ways you can classify this stuff, it could be subtle beings who dwell on the earth just as we do. It could be that the whole issue of you know, Earth versus somewhere else is, is meaningless. When you get to a subtler level, there’s, there’s not this sort of spacetime rigidity that we have on the surface level. Or it could be that there are beings that are actually from the Pleiades or some place that, you know, and then we have to solve the issue of how they got here, you know, the distance of what, 400 light years or something, but maybe there’s wormholes or some advanced technology. So there’s all these things in the mix. But the essence essential question is, you know, to what extent do you feel that all of that is pertinent to the spiritual awakening of the planet now?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Well, don’t we want to meet the neighbors?

Rick Archer: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. As my screensaver, I have NASA’s latest picture of the day, which is like constantly rotating different galaxies, and I’m out there, man.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, I mean, I reminded the scene last winter, where I was, we’re driving my, my girlfriend’s from Jersey, and we were driving through like, Jersey strip mall lands, and I was, we were both getting so depressed. And I kind of looked around, and I just, I just said, one alien. And she’s like, what I’m like, all it would take was one alien on this planet, to change all of this, like change your perspective on everything. But that’s not how I see it’s happening. I don’t think we’re gonna have like someone lands what I see is we shamanic, we wake up, it’s artistic, it’s mathematical, but it’s like this mystery just like we follow the synchronicities our lives. And it’s opens up the number one thing I there’s two things I really get responses on in my book. Because people resonate the black bowling ball in their stomachs, because so many people have the black bowling ball that holds their life down. And I think a lot of that’s probably as entities for people in the aliens, because there’s so many people that are having awakening experiences with that right now. They’re so grateful that I’m actually writing about this stuff in an intelligent way of grounded way. You know, I didn’t lose my wit, in my intelligence writing about this are my humor, you know, and so but that they seem to there seems to be a waking up this happening. Now what I’m getting recently in the demais is we are the star beings that we are actually star beings and this is if you haven’t read Graham Hancock and he talks about the ancient mysteries of Egypt in Graham Hancock wrote the foreword for my book, he’s a mentor, I just talked about a man that’s grounded and can write about esoteric topics in a very, he just did a TED talk. So I’m very happy about that. But he says the ancient mysteries in Egypt, it’s basically saying one thing that they were make waking up initiates to understand themselves as star beings were made from the stars. This whole planet is star powered, we say solar power is star power, you know, in the diamond, they’re constantly talking about being healed from the stars and that we are the stars in you know, but the star that doesn’t illuminate can’t shine. So the process of I think most initially attic pas is to clean out in illuminate the star body and connect with that star energy. So that’s a little wilder, but if you start thinking of it like that, then when you meet people I mean, I feel like life is very psychedelic now without taking anything because I just meet so many interesting people with these different you know, if it’s Star energy, they’re holding different energetic frequencies. And and sometimes I’m just like, where is what planet is this person from? And I almost mean it literally. But,

Rick Archer: you know, when you say Star energy, you mean actually some energy from some other place that they’re embodying here? Doesn’t mean

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I think that’s possible. Yeah. Or it’s being held in there. You know, DNA is entered energy or it’s being heard. Hold in there, just their energetic body. Like I met a person that believes she’s a Syrian channel. And she believes there’s certain types of music that we’re attracted to based on our lineages back to places. And when she said that it just felt true to me, because I’ve always been into weird weirder music stuff that was challenging mainstream ideas. I was never into like Bon Jovi I was into like, Velvet Underground. And people like Daniel in LA that are very haunting, and it have these frequencies that are a little different than mainstream music. I read your thoughts on on this stuff,

Rick Archer: oh, you’re expressing some of them pretty well, I just sort of feel like, I mean, the whole the parts in your book where you talked about, you know, ancient pictures of, you know, Mary, and with some, you know, starship beaming down energy into a woman, and various other actually, paintings from hundreds of years ago, where they actually depicted this stuff kind of corroborates what I’ve been thinking, which is just that, you know, we’re, we’re part of a much larger family, and that we’ve kind of forgotten our our membership in that family, because frankly, we don’t really deserve to be an active member, you know, we just don’t have the kind of consciousness to participate in a cooperative, friendly way. I mean, first thing we do is if we had the ability to go some other planet as sort of like what we did in Avatar, you know, start raping the environment and killing the natives, based upon our track record. So,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: yeah, we’ve already had this experience of meeting foreign lands with Columbus, and we really screwed the pooch on that one,

Rick Archer: right. I mean, read Howard Zinn, you know, people, the United States. And so, you know, the but these, so I’m saying, I sort of feel like, you know, again, along the theme, that the whole university is permeated by intelligence. It’s not only intelligence in an absolute sense, but intelligence is and that, you know, they’re, they’re kind of looking over us and waiting for us to grow up enough to be a more equal participant, rather than just some little bad boy that has to be kept in in.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, you know, I’m glad you said that. I was, there’s a couple things that I’d like to address. One is the crisis line. It’s galactic things. So maybe we were talking about that next but I wanted to talk about this thing about the watching us is one of my favorite scenes in the book, and there’s probably something in me that’s very attracted to it is, I believe, I call him Don in the book, you know, I changed all the names. Don at Burning Man. He’s this guy that and Don and Sarah.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s a successful businessman, $800 million, company and so on.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: It’s probably worth a billion now. He’s got this amazing apartment. He’s just like, all these things. very grounded guy. But he a burning man, his first year had this experience of one taking mushrooms and see his girlfriend’s face turn into this kind of alien face. Which I then saw that that night I met them at Burning Man, she said to be, she said something to me, it made her face about how I brought up her Charmin site. And in that moment, I saw her face change. And so this, this kind of sexy, grayish alien figure, but it didn’t look like these mean grades that you see on the TV and stuff. And then Don tells me the story of how the first year he met, she saw her face change when they were on some arc pyramid out there. And then when he went to bed for three nights in a row, his consciousness was taken up to what he would say was the mothership. And I think he’s the lion is it was full of these like really fun creatures. Like it wasn’t these boring creatures we hear about they were they was like a carnival of like androgyny and David Bowie kind of like people and they had like really cool tattoos, a lot of them. When I hear that it sounds to me, like they probably love themselves a lot. And we’re doing a lot of creative expression. And what he saw is he looked at this mothership and he said, what he saw were these, like 1000s of ships beaming down high vibrational lights of indigo to help the frequency like there’s intention. And he also said he saw a few shifts were that were beaming down kind of like black energy or negative energy. And he was told by these other beings that some of those were reptilian based, but the majority were they’re kind of helping in a very subtle way. And that’s the been kind of the guidance in my whole bill electric Jesus is there’s this galactic shamanic assistance that takes place throughout the book

Rick Archer: and He says on the word subtle, by the way, because obviously, if they were gross metallic ships, we would be able to detect them. But, and some of them are, I mean, some of them come into this dimension and can be seen and have been seen and so on. But I think, you know, you got to sort of bring into the mix the understanding of subtle realms, and you know, beings and even objects can exist on subtle realms which aren’t going to be visible through a telescope or something.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, in the settlement of subtle realms or in perception of dimensions. Yeah. And so our consciousness, like you’re saying, if we’re not at that state, you can’t reach that that then, or I’m sorry, I just gave away his name. Don, in the book is very Ben and

Rick Archer: Jerry’s.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: And you know, what happened about a year later, is I actually told Don and Sarah when they were at a dinner party, I was like, Hey, Don, you know, they were talking about aliens because it loves talking about aliens their favorite topic. It was like, You know what, on that night, we met you a Burning Man. I saw Sarah’s face change into an alien. And he just turned circus honey, draw him a picture. And she drew a picture of exactly what I saw with a little aliens heart NYC next to the picture. Does it make it real? No, it corroborates Yes. But Rick, just I want to go with what you were saying. I think it’s just so important. Which was, which is this? We’re just holding possibilities.

Rick Archer: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, it’s not like you’re going to hell, if you don’t believe that. Sarah was an alien. It’s like, who knows? But boy, you have the experience? What does it mean?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah. But it I really want to say I’m not saying this stuff is true. I’m saying these are experiences that I had, you know, folks out there don’t even have to cite if it’s true or not, is this like, you know, these, those are experiences to consider.

Rick Archer: I’m all for throwing everything into the mix, you know, and, you know, not coming to firm conclusions or needing to, but keeping open to all possibilities, because, as you say, it’s a very magical and mysterious universe out there. And, like I said, quoting Shakespeare earlier, and the thing that there were I lost the quote, but you know, there are more possibilities, and this heaven and earth than are imagined in your philosophy. So it’s like, you know, again, you know, harkening back 250 years ago, 1000 years ago, people’s imaginations, except for a few outliers, like Jules Verne wouldn’t have been able to anticipate the stuff that we take for granted today. And so that’s just going to keep happening. And you know, it might be that 200 years from now, people will think what they had a problem believing aliens, you know, they’re go to the supermarket there there shopping.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: To try some alien cuisines, you know, I love like Italian and Thai, like late in arcturion. Or maybe they’re all like, Solarians, they just breathe and heavenly energy. And

Rick Archer: so playing with possibilities here again, and based upon the glimpses that you have had, do you sort of feel like maybe there’s a lot of people among us who aren’t actually people?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I don’t know. I don’t know. I feel like what my experience has been is we’re more people, you know, but there might be first timers to Earth. I see that with a lot of young generations. You know, I think the autistic a lot autism, I think some of its environmental factors, and they have a sensitivity, but I also think it’s just a weird planet for them. I do think you’re seeing more of like, kind of crystalline energy generations come in to heal us, which is good. I just I wrote this comments about young people. Like when I was in my 20s. We had counterculture was drinking too much. Drinking too much rolling rocks. Smoking Marlboro reds, listening to Charles reading Charles blue kowski. Listening to Tom Waits and hanging out coffee shops wait too long. That was the counterculture. There was no there wasn’t much light. Now the counterculture is like, go to the Lawson festival. Do a Reiki healing. Do some yoga. Wear a crop circle shirt? Go do it. Alex Craig’s a bit in talking about sacred geometry.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s encouraging. Yeah, it’s funny. You talking about young people? To me, you’re just like this little beansprout

Talat Jonathan Phillips: So how old do you think I am? Rick?

Rick Archer: Oh, you’re in your 30s because I just based on hints you’ve given me in the book. Oh, but you could be in your 20s For all I know if I have,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: like 25 I’m 38. Two years from 40s.

Rick Archer: Oh, there you go. Well, I’m 63. But I have to actually think to remember because I don’t really relate to it.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, this is actually the audience’s no here but reconnaissance. I’m having a big birthday party today. So I feel like this is just a great kickoff for for really magical days. So Rick

Rick Archer: Yeah, you’re having a party tonight. And I mentioned to you yesterday is good thing. We’re not doing this interview the morning after that.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, you know what the theme of the party is? It’s a 2013 The Space Oddity, so people are going to come with various futuristic, more like Barbarella kind of sexy. I’m gonna go on Zelo. And my girlfriend’s gonna be a sexy Princess Leia.

Rick Archer: Cool. Now, one thing I’m wondering, I bet you I’m anticipating the questions a lot of listeners are having if they stayed with us this long, is that there’s a lot of people who listen to the show, and a lot of people I’ve interviewed on the show who are in the non dual world, and their whole emphasis is they would consider most of the stuff we’ve been talking about today to be just distraction. You know, possibly true, but who cares, because it’s just all a lot of Mind Candy that is not going to that’s not pertinent to actual self realization, self-realization. And, you know, their whole emphasis may be that, well, you know, when you get right down to it, there is no individual self where, you know, we’re just pure presence or pure being, and so on. And, you know, when they hear us talking and read a lot of perhaps read your book, they hear a lot of, well, I experienced this, and I experienced that. And then this happened to me. And their question would be, well, who is this me? You know, who is this i? Who was having these experiences? That’s the real important question. And so in your path, and then you’re studying centered demais and whatnot, is there you know, very much emphasis on that, or, I mean, because most people, a lot of people when they awaken, and I am really not ultimately an individual, that’s just a sort of superficial facade. I am, I am kind of universal awareness. And so they kind of lose the whole emphasis on individuality.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, well, I mean, the whole practice of the dye maze to reenter the celestial kingdom, which is reconnected with God consciousness, and to let go of illusion, there’s always seems like an illusion, let go of the separateness. But, but you’re right, because we’ve been talking the shamanic world is very much about duality. Yeah. And the diamond is this weird mix of the shamanic and the Godhead, the God consciousness that the inner, you know, the oneness reunion. And it’s a real study. I know the diamond tells us when they’re talking about the celestial kingdom, where all those who are not cleaned, do not go. Those who are clean, go, those who are not cleaned, do not go. So if you have beings attached to you, and you, you can’t illuminate them, it’s really hard to get to that God consciousness, like, it was hard for me to meditate. Meanwhile, I’ve got this thing in my back that saying kill yourself kill other people die, you know. But the meditation helped. So for me, I think it’s kind of a both end. You know, it’s like, a perfect example of the New York City where I live. I try to live in this non dual world as much as I can meditate in that. But when I’m walking down a street at night, if I don’t have awareness of the dual world, and this did happen to me, I got I got mugged and almost hurt really bad. So I think there’s, there’s the God consciousness in there. There’s the awareness that we’re here. And also a lot of my healing practice, I worked with what we would call by energetics a lot of schizoid, it’s because that’s mine, and schizoid love to be spiritual. Because that’s where, you know, they’re, it’s nice up there, it’s beautiful. And that the hard part for them is being here because it’s terrifying. It to be in the illusion and help bring light and so huge amounts of my practice is actually to ground people to bring in that higher consciousness energy, and then spread the love the diagnosis as it’s like we’re in a spiritual war fighting with I say, with the not with the certainty that we are going to win, meaning God’s not going to lose, that it’s all coming back into it. It already is there, you know, but but I think you’re right. I’m glad you brought that up. And I think it’s a study I think it’s a study for everyone. It’s not just me, if, if you’re only looking at the non dual world, it might be good to, you know, pay attention to the dual dual world we’re in as well and just notice where you might not be paying attention.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, that’s actually a trend in so called non dual circles. There are a number of teachers and speakers who, whose sole emphasis was on the non dual to the exclusion of the dual to the exclusion of the personal and after some years of that they began to mature and be And to realize that it had been lopsided or only partial. And so there’s this whole kind of embodiment movement taking place in the non dual teachings. And to my way of thinking, you know, mature spirituality is an incorporation of the full spectrum and, and sort of a facility in functioning at all levels of the spectrum, all levels of manifestation from the unmanifest to the most gross and practical, like walking through the street in New York at night. And if there’s any deficiency on any of those levels, then that’s an area that needs growth. And, you know, for most people, of course, they’re so hung up in the dual, that the non dual is really unnecessary focus on a breath of fresh air when it begins to dawn. And sometimes they become fundamentalist in that orientation. But then, over time, they can’t stay there. It’s got a sort of start bleeding into into the manifest again, and enriching the whole thing.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, sounds like a study. I mean, with the with the healing work I do with so much about the chakras, in finding where the blocks are in the chakras. So it’s very weird for a very spiritual person that come in, and I’m like, You need to be working on being sexy, a little bit. Like we need to actually put on music where they can dance their second chakra and feel it may sometimes for the first time, really,

Rick Archer: yeah. And you see the chakras when you’re doing energy work with people? Or how do you know what they need? Mostly

Talat Jonathan Phillips: with my eyes closed, I’ll see the chakras? Well, if someone’s really rigid, in like this, you know, they’re going to need some heart opening. And they’re going to need some first and second chakra. Most people, if you look, I think major wounding has happened in the second in the fifth chakras, the feminine heart or the second in the for the heart in the second chakra, it just seems like, there’s so vulnerable for people. And of course, people say like, someone has a throat issue, and they’re not. They’re not expressing themselves. So you got to do all this fun, like color therapies. I love it. It’s our idea of healing is so boring to me. Sometimes it’s very clinical. And I think when we start understanding is a beautiful art project in these colors, these expressions need to come into being, it just becomes much more rich. And you know, that’s the creative energy. So it is, yeah, it’s tracking. But usually, it’s not me, it’s the guys that tell me.

Rick Archer: And I guess you do these sessions over Skype as well as in person. So are you able to do them just as effectively over Skype.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: In some ways, Skype can be a little more effective, because there’s something to say like someone’s gone through sexual abuse, right. And you’re sitting in a room together, that that can let that can be a little stressful for somebody. Sometimes there’s a safety having that Skype, it’s like an extra boundary for them to go into these spaces. I haven’t found one more at least less effective that I have noticed. Sometimes Sometimes it’s actually not a bad thing, the Skype in that there, of course there are. Sometimes I’d like to do hands on work, and I can’t do that. But, but that’s when you train people to do the hands on work for them. Mine is more like, I’m training, I call it warrior training. That’s more of what it is.

Rick Archer: And if you’re being assisted in this work by guides, then I guess those guides aren’t restricted by geographical distance, they can, you know, help facilitate it regardless of where the person is.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah. And I mean, there’s been quantum physics studies on that too, right? Of how these, these different particles and very different locations will will affect each other. So like, what’s that called? None.

Rick Archer: I know exactly what you’re talking about there. There can be, you know, particles on opposite sides of the of the galaxy. And as soon as one takes up position, the other takes a down position without any limitation in terms of the speed of light and all that but I forget what it’s called.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, yeah, that’s the thing. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And well, who are these guides that are helping you with the healing thing? And we’ve talked about all kinds of subtle beings beings and all but is this like, the guides that used to call your cowboy or is this a different gang? I do not know. You just definitely feel there’s some kind of guiding entities.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, yeah. Now you said it actually might be a group of guides, but I always feel it is one. It may be the same guys because they used to actually do some heart opening hands moving my hands.

Rick Archer: And how do you know it’s guys and not just your own imagination or your own kind of subtler intelligence or something.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Rule number one mediumship don’t make anything up. Rule number one

Rick Archer: What’s rule number two?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Great question.

Rick Archer: Overall, how do you know if you’re if you’re making it up or not?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Rule number two is probably know who’s coming in and be responsible and three is open and close. There’s a beginning, there’s a middle, and there’s an end to every meet to mediumship. And what happens is a lot of people are unconscious mediums throughout the day, you know, these, these dark entities will come through and yell at their partner and create separation, stuff like that. But as far as who these guides are, I want to share it on my birthday. Last year, in February, the Daime had been saying calling your guides calling you guys I could very easily be a medium for this, this demonic entity, I could never get a guide. And I didn’t even believe in guides. I was just like, the Daime is making this up. There are no guides, because the guides do there’s a process, you bring in the the dark being for the healing. And then he’ll usually drink the Daime or she and then you call a guide. And the guide will like do these things to clear you out. But I’ve never had guides. And then on my birthday last year, that’s when one of the facilitators she said, it’s actually the daughter of Sebastio. Down in Brazil, she said call on your guides, and for the first time ever, my hand lifted. And it’s just started moving and started doing these Tai Chi moves and it was moving energy into my system and cleaning me out. And what I really got it was saying Here he is and help him. And it was funneling energy through me. And ever since that moment, in mediumship, I, my guides come in, and this guide comes in and heals me after I bring in dark beings. And sometimes he just comes in anyways and heals not just myself. But these. This is what I love is it’s not just us, we’re part of a team. So we’re here in physical space. And we have a really important role. Because we’re the bridge between the lower and the upper, these high vibrational beings cannot reach to the dark astral stuff, they have to have kind of like a tunnel. And so they can grab the dark beings and bring them to the light. And some of the dark beings even come bound because they come tied up. Because there’s they’re too violent. And the guide, this guide, what I what he’s now doing a lot of works is he will it’s white magic, that’s what this is, you know, and he will heal this aloud to the healing space, he’ll send golden energy to, to the entire room to heal people. You know, lights and stuff, but you have to surrender because as soon you know what I did in the last work is like for the first time he was sending out beautiful gold energy to the whole room and I got my head I’m like that’s so cool.

Rick Archer: Yeah,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: immediately lost the connection. Number that’s also rule number one, you know, if you go into your head, there’s the loss of mediumship I cut the connection. And so on that day that I was also told you’ve been hesitating, it’s time to take the names a lot on it was I was initiated through the International Sufi order. It means the rising sun haven’t been through so much darkness, I feel like it’s an appropriate name for me. And so from that moment on, I have been using that as my my name.

Rick Archer: So the Sufi order is one thing then the center diamond churches, another thing and but now you know you feel strongly enough about the Sufi thing to have taken on the Sufi name. Or this is your Sufi teacher cool with the whole center diamond thing.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I left the Sufi order after being initiated. Because they didn’t know they didn’t know how to deal with a demon. You know, they love him, you know, help transform, but there’s no techniques, there was no process. I have a great respect for the domain for being able to do what no other modality I’ve run across even Ayahuasca has been able to do.

Rick Archer: Okay, and this dynamic thing, is this something you have to go to Brazil to participate in? Are there little chapters in the States?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: You know, there’s some around the world. It’s legal, it’s legal in Oregon, they fought for it there so people can probably find out about it in Oregon and do it there.

Rick Archer: So what do you do commute to Brazil or Oregon or

Talat Jonathan Phillips: you know, no comment.

Rick Archer: I see what you mean. Okay. And tell us about Evolver and reality sandwich.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Okay. Yeah. So, at the end of the electric Jesus, you know, I used to be this activist and I wanted to get into what might be called mystical activism. You know, I didn’t want to just be initiated. I wanted to put this into the world and also maybe help other people that were going through similar processes. And so met Daniel Pinchbeck, Ken Jordan and Michael Robinson and right as they were starting up this web magazine, and it was exactly what I was looking for. It’s like an intersection of all things consciousness because I feel like a lot of people have like one branch, and we wanted something that tracked like all of them. So it was like digital democracy, alternative currency, yoga, shamanism, plant medicine, design, science, you know, visionary science, all these things come together in this one place. So that’s the web magazine. And being a media activist, you know, for my book, I was really sick of sending things through the main stream and having them crush the essence or be really cynical. And I’m just really grateful we now have these cheap, open source platforms and stuff, too. You know, you don’t have to pay, you have $10,000 to do a print run of a magazine anymore. So that was reality sandwich. And very quickly, an activated community was developed. Bunch of leaders and writers have started rising up. Maybe one of the bigger ones is Charles Eisenstein, who wrote this great book, sacred economics. I don’t know if he’s been on the show, but he’d be he’d be a good one. He’s brilliant. And then we, we ended up having a book a print to, it’s called of auditions with a lot of these leaders. But what we saw is people wanted to meet in the physical space. They didn’t want to just do this online, they wanted to create these transformational communities. So Daniel came up with the name of our spores, because it’s like this mycelial interconnected network, where we share its intelligence sharing across this network. And we host monthly events on all the different topics I’ve mentioned. A lot of them will do things like permaculture gardens, our startup time banks, or Baltimore started up their local currency called the Bina it’s now in I think, 200 stores. So we have 50 regional groups that do this, if people are interested in starting one up, you can just find me through the Evolver network sight, and we’d be happy to get you started. And I say one more thing on that, right. Yeah, sure. Everything. Being a first time author and having these spores is a blessing. And I welcome you like, I’m not sure where you live. I’d love to hook you up with one of the spores for some speaking engagements. But you know, I have pretty much packed houses.

Rick Archer: I live in Iowa, Fairfield, Iowa, Iowa, you know, it’s a little tougher, probably Chicago would be the closest thing.

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, yeah. Or Chicago scores and Strong’s numbers. But it gave me You know, I got to travel and have full full houses every night because of this. And I’m not the only one all these film screenings and book tours. We’ve created an alternative distribution network for this, which I’m very excited about.

Rick Archer: Cool. I gotta say, I don’t remember. But anything else you had? Because I just went blank?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I think we’ve covered a lot of great. Yeah, it was time period.

Rick Archer: Yeah, really? And oh, I know what I was gonna ask you. Do you know, Dr. Kurt Johnson, who lives in, in New York? No, he’s a great guy. I interviewed him a few weeks ago, you might want to check out his interview. But he has just written a book called The coming Interspiritual age. And he’s, you know, like a 30 year old 30 year older version of you in terms of wanting to maybe minus the iOS game, but wanting to bring together all these different things, and recognizing that all the types of things you just mentioned, you know, permaculture and different monetary systems and all that are symptomatic of a new spiritual, new type of spirituality, which is, like you’re saying towards the beginning your book, and I experienced this back in the Vietnam era, when I was a new meditator, and people were protesting against the Vietnam War. And I thought, it’s so superficial, they’re not really going to have much of an effect, you know, these people just seem to be egotistical and crazy, a lot of them and, and what everyone should meditate, because that’s the, that’s the level at which change really occurs. And of course, they would look at me and my type and think, Hey, you’re just sitting on your butt, you’re not going to have effect any sort of change. And you kind of went through that with your activist phase. Now, I kind of realize all levels of all levels are needed, you know, and that spirituality is not exclusive of political action, for instance, and vice versa, you know, political action without the spiritual foundation can become ineffectual, and you’re just angry and you’re not really getting much done. So in terms of the wrapping up this point, I think we’re evolving into a time now where which is inclusive and which recognizes and your Evolver dotnet as an example of this, which recognizes that, you know, a very multifaceted approach to spirituality is, is needed. So you can riff on that a little bit, you know?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, you know where I see this like you’re talking about we’re activists and meet spirituality too is Occupy Movement.

Rick Archer: Exactly. Yeah. Kurt was very involved in that, by the way. Yeah, in like,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: I remember 2004 Man, activist not talk about spirituality. You know, that was No, no, that was the phrase that was not serious work. Exactly. Right. Now, they were doing meditation flashlights. I heard tons of people talking about ayahuasca in Zuccotti Park,

Rick Archer: or came there and spoke and all Yeah,

Talat Jonathan Phillips: yeah. But there’s they that there’s still a lot of work to be done. Because the confrontation with the police, this cat and mouse that they’ve been playing for years was still going on. And I don’t think they had to get kicked out at Zuccotti Park. I think they always people didn’t need to get arrested. But they just, if someone, of course, I could be that person. So I am just as guilty because I busy with a barber. And this, I didn’t say, You know what, we need to have some nonviolent communication workshops between police and organizers. We need to do there’s forgiveness circles you can do which I’m not sure police would be open to it. But man, it would just it’s basic stuff. You know, you talked about retirement, the dual world, like maybe this is something I want to end the call on is we’ve been in a civil war for so long. You know, the angels and demons that this race and that race. And you know, the die, man, it’s real lesson, I think this is every spiritual tradition is authentic spiritual decision is we’re family. And we’re here to heal. Like, we need to end the civil war between the family and to create union. So that’s what I think in within ourselves, the civil war in ourselves. And I think that’s a great project of this unification. And what I see as a dimensional shift of the heart is, is, is that unit union of the family and seeing ourselves as brothers and sisters.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s a Sanskrit phrase, which I can’t pronounce, but it’s basically the world is my family. Awesome, cool. Well, that is a good note to end on. So this has been a lot of fun as I knew it would be. I am kind of, you know, very impressed with the work you’re doing. And I hope it continues to thrive. And I’m sure it will. And I will be linking to your various websites, I guess. evolver.net reality sandwich, if you want me to link to that one. And to a lot healing. Yeah. And so people listening to this, if they happen to be listening, well driving their car or something and can’t write it down. If you just go to batgap.com, you’ll see two lots section on on my site and a bio of him and links to his various sites, through which you can get in touch with him if you wish. All right. So any more comments before I make some general concluding remarks? Or?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: No, you know, I’m just here to say, Rick, thank you so much. I really, it’s nice to have someone that’s yeah, I feel like a little bit of a mentor, I’m gonna check out fireside theatres and like, I just like you’re holding the flame for us. And the space you hold has been really fun. I’ve learned a lot. So thank you, for readers out there for readers for listeners out there. You know, if you pick up a copy of the electric Jesus, and I’ll send you just you gotta make sure to say it’s through this program, send me an email. And as a gift, I’ll send you a 25 minute chakra activation mp3. It’s, it has sound healing, and as breath work, it works with the chakras. So I think it’s a nice little gift for and I think you’ll enjoy the book. It seems like Rick did.

Rick Archer: Cool. So I’ll link to your book on Amazon from batgap.com. So if somebody buys it, you want them to get in touch with you and say I bought the book, because I heard about it on BatGap. Is that what you’re saying?

Talat Jonathan Phillips: Yeah, just send me an e receipt and I’ll send you the chakra activation.

Rick Archer: Okay, great. So to conclude them, you’ve been listening to or watching a interview with Jonathan Tilak Phillips. This is one and an ongoing series of interviews. I do a new one each week. If you’ve enjoyed this and you’d like to listen to others, go to batgap.com and you’ll see all 160 Something of them archived. And you could also subscribe to the YouTube channel. don’t want to see them on that channel. Although the early ones I did were all split up into 10 minute segments because I had that limitation on YouTube. Now I can put the whole shebang up there in one chunk. If you’d like to subscribe to the channel, YouTube will notify you every time I put up a new one. Or you can go to batgap.com and click on a tab and subscribe. Subscribe to email notification for each new interview. There’s also a discussion group on BatGap that crops up around each interview and those become quite lively and stimulating sometimes, there is also a link to an audio podcast if you’d like to just get things on your iPod and listen while you ride your bike or whatever. All kinds of interesting stories about what people do while they listen to this one guy tells me he hikes in the Himalayas on a regular basis and listens to BatGap. Another guy rides a horse in Arizona. I’m sure there are plenty of dishes washed while listening to this program. So there’s that and there’s also a donate button which you know, I kind of don’t make a big fuss about but it really is important for me is actually hopefully enabling me to shift into doing this more full time and not eat up all my time. Just making a living. So click on that and donate if you feel inclined. So thanks for listening and watching and we’ll see you next week.