Mercedes Kirkel Transcript

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Mercedes Kirkel Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. And my guest this week is Mercedes Kirkel. Mercedes is a spiritual growth facilitator who brings forth messages from Mary Magdalene and other beings of light. And she was recommended to me by my friend Sandra Glickman, whom I interviewed near the very beginning of this whole show about three years ago. And I often run into Sandra in the grocery store and places like that. And so at one point, she recommended Mercedes, and here we are. Now, it’s funny, because on the show, I often refer to the fact that there are subtler levels of creation, and even that there are beings dwelling on those subtle levels. And that one, you know, with sufficient development, or whatever could communicate with those beings, and that there might be some value in doing that, even though that’s not the main focus of the show, that topic does sometimes come up. And yet, when I actually encountered somebody who was doing that, so my kind of skepticism, you know, started kicking in, as it did for you, when you first started having those experiences. So what I was thinking was, you know, let’s lay a foundation, because I think it’s probably natural and healthy to be skeptical. Especially since not all the people I think, who claim to be doing the sort of thing you’re doing, are actually doing it, some might just have vivid imaginations. You know, not everybody was Joan of Arc in a past life or whatever. And so let’s, let’s lay a foundation and in the context of this conversation, we’ll, we’ll discuss why what you’re doing is relevant to somebody who would be interested in, you know, Enlightenment or self realization and, and might feel that, you know, channeling or subtle beings or any of that stuff is only a distraction, you know, that it might throw them off the path, or just get them caught up in New Age rule without having any ultimate value. So we’ll talk about those things, and many others. So let’s, let’s start from the beginning, Mercedes, what would you like to just say about your own life and journey and so on, starting as early as you feel there’s anything that’s anything significant to recount?

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, my journey actually started at a very young age. My earliest memory of having spiritual experiences was when I was eight years old. But the one that most connects with this story, I think, is when I was 12, which is that I started to have visions come to me of having walked with Jesus in the desert. And to put this in context, my family was Jewish, I was living in a small Midwestern American town. And my family was not particularly religiously oriented. It was more of their background was Jewish, but we weren’t actively involved in much of anything spiritual or religious. And I started having these visions. And in the visions, there were about 100, people who were following Jesus in the desert, and I was part of that group, there was an inner circle, and I wasn’t part of the inner circle, but I was part of the larger gathering. And I never told anyone about these visions, because I didn’t think anyone would understand. I didn’t think my family would understand. And I didn’t really know anyone outside my family to talk to

Rick Archer: would they come in dreams or when you were just like riding your bicycle, or, you know, sitting sitting quietly or what?

Mercedes Kirkel: Actually, my strongest memory of this vision is one time when I was doing a family chore, I was cleaning one of the bathrooms. And this vision came to me. So I was awake. And it was sort of you know, when I was in quiet time by myself, and I remember they came to me a number of times the same vision. It

Rick Archer: was pretty vivid. It wasn’t just sort of vague imagination. It was something quite vivid.

Mercedes Kirkel: Oh, yes. And it was something I knew was different. You know, all children have imagination and that kind of thing. And this was different and it stood out very strongly for me. But eventually, it receded back into the background, and I more or less forgot about it. But I did go on from there to be very interested in religion and in my early life, starting when I was 12 years old, I was very drawn to Hinduism and Eastern spirituality. I remember going to the public library in this small Midwestern town and taking up books on Hinduism. And at that time, the only books available were very scholarly texts. I couldn’t understand a word of what they were saying. But it didn’t stop me. I still tried there was something so strong in me wanting to connect with this. And it wasn’t till I went to college, and I actually it was still fairly young. I was 16 when I went to college, and I started to meet people who were practicing Eastern, you know, Indian religions, or paths of different sorts. And I was very drawn, experimented with lots of things. And I was a dismal failure at all of it. I tried meditating, I tried chanting, I tried Zen Buddhists. I tried everything that I could get access to. And I just seemed like I wasn’t cut out for nothing work yoga, I didn’t have the discipline, couldn’t get myself up in the morning, nothing seemed to work. Finally, I, but I stayed with it. I was so persistent, funnily, I did connect with an American spiritual teacher. And that teacher went by many different names. But the name that he finally ended up with that, you know, he’s known by today is Adi Da. And that’s where

Rick Archer: you met Sondra, she was with Adi Da, yes. And Sandra bonder.

Mercedes Kirkel: Right, that was my second spiritual teacher, and she was connected to both of them, right. And I was without a doubt, for 17 years, was very, you know, very, very involved at the most central level, doing and this was a very spiritual, but I consider very serious spiritual path that, you know, I was on at that point where it involves lots of meditation and all sorts of disciplines, and my whole life being very, very devoted. And eventually, I moved into the second spiritual group that I was with, which was Samuel bounder in the waking down community, why did you leave it? I had no intention of leaving. I, there were things that were going on that I wasn’t quite aligned to. And I was aware of that. But I was still feeling that there was so much less than, and I was growing so strongly that I was very at peace with what was happening. But I was in a relationship with someone who felt like their practice had plateaued, and that they weren’t growing. And this had been going on for a number of years. And he was very frustrated. And he decided that he wanted to look for something to supplement his practice. And both of us had a number of friends who had formerly been in the IT community and had started, you know, had had left and gone with spaniel. And we’re working with Samuel bonder. And we’re very excited about what was happening. And so because, you know, we heard about him about Samuel to our friends, my partner decided he would check out Samuel. And he started going to Spaniels groups, and really felt very supported, really liked what was happening. And he kept saying to me, would you like to come? Would you like to come? And I said, No, I’m fine with what’s happening with me. But I’m glad this is working for you. But after about six months, it started become apparent to me that he was really getting more and more committed to what was happening with Samuel. And I thought, you know, just for the sake of our relationship, I should go and check out and make a connection with the people there. So we started with a dinner, and we had a dinner Dinner with Samuel and his partner, Linda. And one other woman that I had known who was working with Sanyo. But I had known her previously from Rati dot community. And I was very impressed. Samuel. First of all, I was very impressed with this woman I had known from the previous community, because she had changed so much, we’d been very good friends, and I knew her well. And I could see how much he had changed how strong she had become. And she had a lot of power and clarity, and I was really impressed. So that was the first thing that really

Rick Archer: spoke to do I know her.

Mercedes Kirkel: Her name is really handsome, I have an interview. That was very powerful for me. And then at a certain point, Samuel said, Well, would you like to talk about your spiritual practice and what’s happening? And I thought, wonderful, I’d love to. So we started talking, I told him what was going on at that point in my life. And he said, Would you like to hear my point of view on this? I was so impressed that he even asked, he was so respectful. And that really moved me. And I said, Yes, I’d love to hear your point of view. And he talked to me and said, things I’ve never heard before. And I was very impressed. And I thought this is interesting. I think, you know, this could be valuable. There’s something here and then at the end is we’re leaving and it had been very lovely dinner. He asked if I would like a hug. And I said sure I’d like him Have a and so I got a hug from him. And I recognized that there was spiritual transmission that happened. And that impressed me too. I was very familiar with spiritual transmission from Adi Da, who has a very had, he’s not alive anymore. But when I was with him, I experienced very powerful spiritual transmission. So I knew what that was like, this was not as strong as that. But it was clear and I felt it. And so I went home. The next morning, I woke up and things started coming out of my mouth that were different. And I knew it was because of that hug. I knew it had affected me. And so all that really got my attention. And I thought I better check this out more. And I went to the next sitting that he was having Samuel, and he did a meditation with the group. And in the meditation, I experienced the witness consciousness for the first time that I was aware of. And I knew very well what that was from my study that I had engaged. But I was not aware of ever having experienced that before. And I said, there is something happening here, I need to check this out. And a week later, I went to two more gatherings and weekend event. And I said, this is my new home, I need to be here. So it was a very graceful organic transition that happened.

Rick Archer: Is it of interest to you? Or has it been something that you’ve been trying to process since leaving it does community the kind of paradox between the fact that someone can have a great deal of spiritual power and radiance and influence and so on, and yet have other aspects of his life? That seems to not jibe with that. I mean, I met a guy who had been with Autodesk for 17 years. And he left because I did I was screwing his wife to put it a little bit in delicately. And he gave me a whole laundry list of stuff that the guy was into which were which was quite disturbing and would have been if I had been, you know, involved with him. But at the same time, you know, I heard so many wonderful things about him from from people. And you know, people say his books are so brilliant. And you know, this is for over the years, this has been kind of an issue with me, not only with him, but other teachers of why there’s so often a dichotomy between, you know, some aspects of who they appear to be, and then other aspects of their behavior. I mean, I I’ve kind of come to the conclusion to put it in a nutshell that, to use Ken Wilber as an analogy, there can be lines of development, and a person can be very developed along certain lines and stunted and others. They’re not completely blossomed as a spiritual to the full extent of possibilities in terms of spiritual development, even though they may think they are. So do you have any reflections on that? I think it’d be good to sort of touch upon it in passing, or maybe it’s of no interest to you, I don’t know.

Mercedes Kirkel: Oh, it’s definitely of interest to me. And was something that I, it didn’t disturb me the way that it had disturbed some people. And I think partly people who were involved and receiving the tremendous gifts that so many of us received from Adi Da, were able to, in a maybe subconscious way or something to, to accept that there was, you know, different things going on. And, for me, it was always a balanced point of, you know, am I fundamentally in integrity with myself and is the good outweighing what’s not working for me. And I was able to be at peace with that. And I think most people did that on some level or other. And some people got to the place where that wasn’t the case where there were things going on that were too disturbing for them too unsettling and non supportive. And that’s when they decided to leave. A lot of people left with anger. A lot of people are hurt. There were many people who had a lot of hurt when they left and went through a difficult process. Also, a lot of people went through a difficult process, it was like a divorce, because there was such a deep love that the people who were there, especially people who stayed for a long time had for him, and it’s very much like a divorce, what people went through. So, I was very, very blessed because my, I didn’t exit out of anger. I didn’t have a difficult experience that caused me to leave I just left because my I was guided somewhere new. And in some ways, I feel like my whole life has been like that I’ve been so blessed. And so and also that I went to another community, a lot of people who left didn’t have another community to go to and that was a very hard thing too. So I was you know, I didn’t go through that. But I think Ken Roberts description is a very good way of looking at it and more or less, you know, in my own, you know, explanation how I understand it, and also one Other things that I came away with after leaving the Adi doc community, and then even after that is that I don’t any longer relate to awakening or Enlightenment as one event. And so definitely when I was in the Adi dot community, you know, there was a structure that Adi guy was teaching, and it had to do with, you know, he’s awake, awakened or enlightened, and he’s helping other people to attain this, and it was like an endpoint and grow. And I don’t see it that way anymore. And as a matter of fact, I view this whole progression as this progression into return and reunion with absolute divinity. And that what I see it in terms of dimensions, and in the book, I talk about this 12 dimensions. And with us being in this, for the most part, and most of us are operating in the third dimension, primarily right now. And what I think that most people were, in a more traditional sense are talking about when they talk about Enlightenment, or awakening is some degree of the fifth dimension. And that there’s quite a bit beyond that. So if you don’t see there’s just one event where it’s all or nothing, you’re either there or not, then it’s very possible that there can be different different levels, different parts of yourself that are further along in this progression and other parts that you know, are needing more to help. That makes more sense.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s excellent. I want to talk more about those dimensions with you a little bit later in the interview. And, you know, what you just said, pretty much describes the way I see it these days, I also used to think of Enlightenment as a static Terminus and, and even now, I’m just the other day, I was doing a quote, for some teacher that said, you know, either you’re awake, or you’re not, it’s like being pregnant or dead, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you know, you’re, you’re either dead, or you’re not, you’re pregnant, you’re not in the same same with Enlightenment or awakening. And, you know, but in my experience, which admittedly is not, you know, it’s still a work in progress. And, but also, in my experience of interacting with other people. I’ve gotten the impression that it’s a an ongoing process, and that there are many, many degrees of awakening and never ending degrees of unfoldment refinement embodiment in or whatever you want to call it. And obviously, there’s some component there that once realized, doesn’t change in and of itself, that there is a non changing aspect to life. But the infusion of that component, if you will, or the reflection of that, there’s no end to the degree of progress in that realm. You know what I mean?

Mercedes Kirkel: The way that I look at it is that there are these, in book this is a lot of what Mary’s talking about to these two aspects are faces of God. And she the name, the label that she gives to them, and the way she looks at them as the masculine and the feminine. There are other ways of looking at it too, and that Shiva and Shakti, exactly, and that the masculine ultimately is this eternal, unchanging aspect of the Divine, the transcendental what’s prior to all of manifestation. And the feminine is the incarnate the manifest that in form, if you will, aspect of God, and so and the feminine is always changing. It’s the nature of change, birth, life, death, rebirth, the cycle of you know,

Rick Archer: it’s funny that we assign genders to them, you know, because why would we think that the pure absolute unchanging, silent consciousness is masculine? What is there that’s masculine about it? And, and, I don’t know. And obviously, human beings have both components within them. You’re not You’re not all one or the other. Right? So but it is a little funny that we assign genders to them. And maybe a related question is, Do women sort of embody more of what you just said? And men embody more of the transcendent quality? And maybe that’s why we call them and that’s why women are women and men are men.

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes, I think that’s in general true. And for each individual, there’s varying degrees and all of that. But yes, I was on a panel discussion this week with a man who’s specializing in the masculine and supporting men in particular, in incarnate in the masculine, and he had an image I really, really liked. This is his name is Dwayne Classen. And his image was taking the Yin Yang sign and cutting it down the middle. And if you took a look at each side, each side of that symbol has about 70% of one of the elements Yin or Yang, and 30% of the other. And he says in general, for men and women, that’s about the right percent where you’re functioning within yourself and in relationship to the other pole pretty optimally, I liked that I thought was really good.

Rick Archer: Do you think gay people have more of a balance in the other direction or something, and that’s why we have gay people,

Mercedes Kirkel: they may. But in most gay relationships, you’ll usually see that one person is more in the masculine role and one person is more in the feminine role.

Rick Archer: Interesting. All right, so we’ve taken a tangent, but I want to get you back to your story. You know, you were your left Adi Da, and you were in getting involved with the waking down community. And let’s take it from there.

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes. So what happened is that, within four months of coming into the waking down community, I went through a very profound awakening, what they call in that community, the second birth, and for me, it was really the fulfillment of my spiritual seeking for all those years. And it was knowing, knowing who I was at the fundamental core of my being in union with God. And it was a fundamental shift, something within me absolutely changed. And I don’t think about it so much anymore, except once in a while when I’m having a conversation with someone, and we’ll be talking about our mind and our consciousness. And they’ll this describe, you know, kind of the way their mind is working. And I’ll go Oh, yeah, I remember, I used to be like that. And then I can see that something has changed. But it’s the way it is. So often with human growth, where you’re striving and striving for something, then you achieve that. And it becomes just sort of ordinary, and oh, well, and you go on.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think that’s the way we’re wired. Even in material realms, you know, you get a new car, and it’s Oh, boy, it smells so good. And it feels so good. And a few weeks later, it’s like, my car,

Mercedes Kirkel: car. So I went through that. And in some ways, it was a bit of a crisis for me, because my whole life had been about this awakening and knowing who I was in relationship to God and the world and all of that. And suddenly, that quest wasn’t there anymore. I was at peace. I felt like I had completed that.

Rick Archer: Can you elaborate on that experience a little bit more Hubsan? I’m just thinking, some people might want to say, Okay, well, who was she? Or what? What was this experience? Exactly?

Mercedes Kirkel: Okay. Well, there were two stages to it. And the first stage, I’m trying to remember the name that they gave, and I can’t even remember, but it was something about weight awakening to the witness consciousness. And this was what I experienced that first time. And that meditation was Samuel. And I continue to experience this every single time that I meditated with Samuel or any of the other teachers who were teaching at that time in the awakened down process. And then the first step is to start to realize that outside of meditation, where you are continuously connected to that in contact with that, and that happened, after about two months, where suddenly I realized, it was always with me, it reminded me of a computer screen, where if you’re running a program, and then you can hit a button, and it minimizes the program, and it just goes down to this little icon, I felt like this consciousness was always with me, but it was minimized. It was right here over at my left side. And whenever I wanted, I could click on it and be with it fully. But I never lost my connection to it, it was always there.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and just like the computer analogy, it was running in the background, so to speak, doing a certain function, you know, and serving its purpose. But it didn’t, it didn’t need to be in the foreground all the time in order to serve that purpose,

Mercedes Kirkel: right. And in my cosmology, my understanding now the way that I relate to things, I would say that that was the masculine, that was the transcendental, the pure, transcendent nature of God, that didn’t really directly have anything to do at that time, in my awareness with everything else. It was just just a way that when you go into meditation, you go away from the world away from everything that’s happening. It was always there, but it was its own thing. It was not integrated,

Rick Archer: not integrated, but it must have impacted the rest of your life. Right? Having that having awaken that as opposed to previously not having awakened that must have somehow had an influence or did that influence just grow gradually over time?

Mercedes Kirkel: It was settled, but there was a sense of the kind of like peace and a sense of having something very special in your life, sort of like a special secret that you just know, and you’re carrying with you. Yeah. And the sense of, you know, I had this in was just this bless a gift that was always with me.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And it must have I mean, did that piece kind of begin to influence the way your mind function, for instance, or the way you behavior flowed? Like you refer to that woman, someone Hanson, I think her last name was who seems so strong and different than the previous time you had seen her. So did something similar to that happened to you as a result of this awakening?

Mercedes Kirkel: I would say not immediately, what it did was it laid the groundwork, the foundation for the second stage of the awakening. And that’s when things really started to change. So it was sort of like a germination period, in some ways, the seed was planted. And the second stage I went through about two months later, and one of the things that precipitated it was that I was editing Samuels book, he was working on what was his second book, but his really first public book called waking down. And I had, I had done some work before in the Adi dot community, I’ve been in that editorial staff and have done writing and editing work. And so he, at one point, had passed out a sample chapter. And I said, you know, that I loved it. And I would be really honored if he wanted to work with me and have me edit it. And I did a sample edit. And he said, This is great. Let’s do it. So I ended up editing the book. And as it was getting very close to coming out, I was really immersed in the teaching. And so I would say, for the two weeks before I went through this full awakening, I was almost full time, all day long, working on this material. So I was very focused on all of the teaching that Samuel was given, had given and, and then I went to this retreat, and at the retreat, actually, Sandra was one of the leaders of the retreat, and it was Sandra and van at that time, and I was in a group with three other people. And we were particularly put in this group, because Daniel felt all of us were very close to awakening. And he thought, you know, it’d be supportive of us to be together.

Rick Archer: So he didn’t regard that thing that happened a few weeks before as awakening that was just like the initial

Mercedes Kirkel: he that was part of His teaching was that there were these two stages go through. That is the initial stage. But no, that was not the full awakening. And so I was in this group, and it felt it did have this feeling of being pregnant. Like we were very, very close. And it was intense. And there was this like intensity between all of us. And on Saturday night of the retreat, we went out to dinner with Samuel and Linda. And at one point, Sanyo looked at me and he said, Well, Mercedes, what’s keeping you back? What what do you have to do before you’re ready to fully awaken? And I just felt fear, such fear when he said that it was like the core of my being said, I’m not ready. And I said something like that to him. And he just said, Okay, well, when you’re ready, you’ll know. And I went home that night. And I remember I had vivid dreams all night, I was so disturbed, and I woke up in the morning, I had this feeling like a truck and run over me or something, you know, is just so intense. And I had the feeling I was just very, very close. And my ego was just holding on for everything. It was worth, you know, like, no, no, no, you don’t want this. And I went to the retreat that morning. And we started out with the meditation and the two leaders Sandra and van were both leading the meditation we were doing an eye gazing meditation. And first I meditated with Sandra and was very wonderful. And then I meditated with van. And all in the large group, the meditate when I say meditate, it was like we connected with our eyes gazing. And then at that point, because it was still new, in the days of the waking down teaching van was the only person other than Samuel at that point, who had brought someone through who was working with them into full awakening. And so as I was meditating the van I silently like said to him, then, please help me I don’t know what I need, but please help me. And almost instantly, I had a response and it was what I consider the moment when I awakened. And what happened was, it was a very simple experience. I, I connected with my own my awareness, my sense of awareness, and I saw it go out to a certain level and stock and it was like, That’s my sense of who I am. And that’s, that’s the limit of it as As much as it goes, and then all of a sudden, something I want to say reversed. But that’s not really the word but something fundamental, this changed. And it’s like, it just went out to infinity. And at the same time, there was a simultaneous awareness of myself as this one single point that was not in space or time, but you could say it was at the very center of everything. And that I was both I was this absolute infinite, infinite, everything connected to everything non separate from everything. And I was absolutely nothing but a point. And that was, that was the moment for me when everything shifted. And it took about a day to really kind of start to get a sense of what had happened. And what I realized was that I understood what had happened, by contrast to how I had done before, and how I was now it was like, comparing the two is what made sense of it for me. And I realized that before, I had always had this sense of me being separate from everything else, whatever I was, which I didn’t really know what I was, but I knew that it was somehow cut off separate from everything. And that, so there was me, there was everything else. And there was separation, there were these three elements that were constants in my life, and that my life really had all of everything I did in my life up till that time, had been trying to come into union to get out of separation, when no matter what had been, every everything from everything that I had done, had been motivated by that. And all of a sudden, I did not feel separate. And I did not feel separate from God, ultimately, ultimately. And I had no, none of this drive anymore. It was like there was this motor that was always running previously. And suddenly the motor had turned off. And there was just absolute peace. And that was the change.

Rick Archer: Nice. And that persisted.

Mercedes Kirkel: To this day, it’s never changed. And I did not become perfect, I did not become the Buddha. I did not I still have problems in my life. I still all you know, I’m very normal in so many ways. But it’s this internal shift that that has made a huge difference.

Rick Archer: And you mentioned the term full awakening several times. And yet earlier we were talking about it’s an ongoing unfoldment. So how do you use the the adjective fool to characterize that if there’s going to be more?

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes. That was my big question. I think question wasn’t about Adi Da was about what does this mean, what I went through? And why am I not a perfect person? Was this really an awakening? But yet, there was no question that I went through this profound change that has really affected me. And the other thing I want to say about it is relative to the difference between that first stage and the second stage, the way that I see it is the second stage, took that initial witness conscious of consciousness awakening, and integrated it with every aspect of my being. So suddenly, they weren’t separate anymore. It wasn’t this little program running at the side, suddenly, there was that was what was not separate from everything else. And so I think Samuels term is a really good term because he calls it second birth. And it’s like a birth, it’s a beginning of a whole new way of relating to life, and a whole new way of being. So that to me, is why there’s still this development and why there’s this ongoing newness, it’s because you’ve come into a new level of integration. That to me, is is natural to us as all the stages we go through, it’s as natural as a one year old learning how to walk. And then they go on, and there’s so much beyond that, but there’s no question they’ve learned how to walk and they never forget.

Rick Archer: So like in terms of this 12 stage that you mentioned earlier, with this full quote unquote full awakening have been like a certain stage like stage five or something and, or doesn’t fit into that model.

Mercedes Kirkel: I don’t really see it as fitting into that model. Because I’m definitely I consider myself definitely still seated in the third dimension. But I, there are parts of me that are moving and already strong in in what I would characterize as the fourth dimension and to some extent, beginning in the fifth dimension and I think they is that, you know, that’s like streamers going forth the parts of ourselves until all of us is ready. And we move all together into that next level.

Rick Archer: Usually when, you know, we talk about when scientists talk about dimensions, they mean, you know, depth, height and width are the first three dimensions and then time is the fourth dimension. But, um, when you use the term third dimension, I presume you mean the whole material world that we customarily live in. And the fourth would be what the what the Hindu say, is turiya, which means fourth, which is transcendent, or what something else.

Mercedes Kirkel: I can’t compare it to the Hindu because I’m not that familiar with what that means, in that terminology

Rick Archer: seems like the transcendent state, fourth state turiya. But I think you’re saying something,

Mercedes Kirkel: I think I’m saying something different to Yeah, I look at it as realms of manifestation as what we would call our reality, all together. So it’s much, much bigger than, you know, the scientific kind of analysis of these elements. And there’s our, and it’s based on the idea that our consciousness creates our reality. So for those of us who are manifesting a third dimension, right now, our consciousness primarily is operating at a certain frequency that’s calling in what we know. And the third dimension is characterized by duality, by separation. And by fundamentally, you know, our anchor, our base is in the physical in the third dimension.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you’re saying that even now, after that await those awakenings, you are primarily operating in the third dimension, because you have a physical body and a physical life and all that stuff. But But somehow, somehow, other dimensionality has been brought into it that kind of coexists with your third dimensional life. Is that what you’re saying?

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes, and I think that Awakening was a great support in that in opening my consciousness and starting to open me to other things other than only the third dimension. And the third dimension primarily is characterized by what Mary referred to as our lower mind. And that’s a combination of our rational mind and our subconscious mind. And the fourth dimension is the beginning of starting to move into the higher realms, you know, from this point of view, and the fourth dimension, many of us the experience, the most common experience, we have, the fourth dimension isn’t our dream world. It’s what we experience is the dream, where we still have a physical body, but it’s very light, you know, and it’s, that’s not the primary characteristic, the primary characteristic is this more energy aspect of ourselves. And the fourth dimension is much more energetically based and emotionally based. And there are it’s a spectrum also in the fourth dimension. So there’s lower aspects of the fourth dimension, or higher aspects. And the lower aspects are more like what are nightmares, or like, it’s the heavy dreams, we have a fear or terror, or extreme sorrow, anger, very strong kind of dark emotions, and the higher aspects or the more blissful aspects of the, you know, emotions of joy, love, ecstasy, peace, serenity, those kinds of things. And in some ways, it’s kind of like the classic view that has been held in Christianity of what heaven and hell are like. And I think there’s a basis in that in these realms in the fourth dimension.

Rick Archer: Okay, so I want to make sure we’re, we’re kind of that I’m not throwing you off on detours, because this is all very interesting. And we would like to talk about all all these dimensions and the whole realm of possibilities, but we still have a story that we’re unfolding here. So we can kind of loop out a little bit, then loop back again.

Mercedes Kirkel: Okay, so I went through this awakening, I stayed in that community for about two years, all together, I was stabilizing, and coming into this awakening and integrating it with my life. And the second year, I became a teacher in the waking down process. And it became apparent to me over the course of that time of teaching that that wasn’t quite a fit for me, it wasn’t my, my real path, although there were very many wonderful things about it. And at the end of that time, I was still like, you know, wondering, well, you know, what is my path now? What am I going to do with my life and I started having visions again. And I had visualized you

Rick Archer: had when you were 12, like vision, you had visions for a

Mercedes Kirkel: lot. I had visions again, right since I was and they were very different visions. This time. It was a vision of being on the side of a volcano and being at a very beautiful lake where I was leading a group of women in ceremony. And shortly after those visions started, which again, I had a number of times, I met a man fell in love. And he was headed back to Hawaii where he had lived before. And he invited me to come visit him in Hawaii, I got there, and there was the volcano and the lake just like I had seen in my visit. Nice. Yes. So I ended up moving to Hawaii. And I was on the Big Island. And my spirituality definitely turned at that point, to be connecting with the earth very strongly and with, you know, Earth as the divine feminine or mother, because I didn’t really have that at all in my background. And while I was in Hawaii, I, in addition to making this very strong connection with the earth, I started to receive messages from spirit, very simple messages. Most of them were directives to me about things to do in my life, do this, do that, that kind of thing.

Rick Archer: And these messages came in the form of like actual words as if they were a loudspeaker or more like a subtle impulse kind of thing.

Mercedes Kirkel: Most of the time, the messages came what I would call telepathically, which means they were delivered directly to my brain. And I, I suddenly knew them, but I knew it was I could tell the difference between my own thoughts in these messages was very clearly two different kinds of things. That that’s how I would experience them. But one actually did happen, where it was a voice that I heard a very loud voice, I was asleep. And it was so loud, it woke me up. And it was a directive to me it was rather humorous, I thought, it was telling me the message was buy gold. And I knew nothing about I was like, buy gold. What does that mean? I didn’t even know that people couldn’t buy gold. And so I took a month and I researched it on the internet and found out that gold was at an all time low, it was a great time to buy gold.

Rick Archer: Cool, so you bought some sounds like it was a smart move.

Mercedes Kirkel: Lots of funny stories about that. But then what happened was, I was leading a workshop at one point it was actually a sacred sexuality workshop. And that’s a story unto itself that I won’t go into. But one of my friends said, Oh, have you ever heard of this book by Mary Magdalene? I said, No. And she said, Oh, if you’re teaching sacred sexuality, you should read this book. And I said, Okay, great. So she loaned it to me. It was a channeled book channeled by Tom Kenyon, from Mary Magdalene. And in it, Mary Magdalene was telling her story, saying that in very summery form, that she was a priestess devices, she was prepared for her meeting with Yeshua, the Aramaic name of Jesus, specifically, by being trained in the sex magic of ISIS, very high practice within the priestess lineage, in that he was similarly trained, and they were prepared to come together and practice this sacred sexuality, what she called the sex magic of ISIS, as part of both of their spiritual path, but specifically empowering Yeshua, to do his final miracle, which was to die, go into the underworld and lay a path of light for all beings to follow. And that their work was a key element in transforming his energy body into pure light, and empowering his spiritual body to do this final miracle. And then she went on from there to explain the practices in very simple form that they were doing of sacred sexuality. And I, as I read this, this was new material. I hadn’t heard of these practices before. And they instantly became activated in me as I was reading the book. And by the end of the book, I was feeling quite amazed at what was going on, and had an integration that happened. And I realized I was remembering that at the cellular memory level, my body knew these practices all before because I had done this practice. I had been in this temple culture in Egypt as a priestess, and I had done these practices. And moreover, I had memories start to come to me of having known Mary Magdalene having known Mother Mary who was also a priestess of ISIS. And that that was why I was Following Jesus in these visions when I was that I had when I was 12 years old is because we had all been connected through the temple, and that it was a reconnection for me. So when I went through that, it was a big surprise, big surprise. And first of all, I was one of those people who had a definite attitude about channeling, that channeling was fluff. It was maybe delusional, not real, and definitely not the real spiritual path. And suddenly, I’m reading this channeled book and saying, This is resonating with me. So that was very confusing to me. Also, because I still didn’t associate myself with the Christian path. I was like, Yeah, Magdalene, mother, Mary, you know, I don’t relate to these people. And ISIS, I had no idea who ISIS was or what the Temple of Isis was. That was just like, foreign to me. So I did, but I always do. I did. I got on the internet started researching who’s ISIS, what’s the Temple of Isis? And I couldn’t find anything. I found one book and I ordered it. And it was very unsatisfying, didn’t really answer my questions. And I tried to find someone who could give me information. And I only found two people on the internet. One was Tom Kenyon, who had written the book. And I wrote to him, and he never wrote back. And then I found a woman who was a psychic. And she felt like she was connected to ISIS. And I did some work with her. But it wasn’t really what I was looking for. I wanted really very grounded details, information, and I wasn’t getting that. And so finally, I said, as best I knew how I didn’t know how to do this, but I just did, what I could figure out to do is I had a conversation with ISIS, and I said, ISIS, if you’re real, if this is real, what’s happening to me, I need help, you’re gonna have to guide me, I can’t find this on my own. I don’t know what to do with this, I don’t know where to go, you’re gonna have to guide me. And what happened is, she started coming to me, and giving me these telepathic messages very only a couple of times, very simple. And the main one was that I was to lead a priestess training for women. And she told me that I’m like, what? You gotta be kidding. I said, I’m only awakening to my background as a priestess, how am I gonna lead a trading for other people? And she said, Don’t worry, I’ll give you everything you need. That was, in some ways, I look back, and I see it as a test. But it was a huge leap of faith for me to advertise and put out that I was gonna leave this training that I knew absolutely nothing, really. But I did it. And what happened was the morning before the first gathering, she came to me and she gave me the full download of everything I was to do the full activities down to the music, I was to play everything. And she continued to do this every time we met. And the group lasted for a year and was an absolutely amazing group. So I had that experience. And that brought me up to the end of 2009. And then that group ended at a year and right at that time, I got a message from spirit, not from any particular being just that I consider spirit that I was to leave the Big Island. And in some ways, this was another test, I was very happy at that time living on the Big Island. I’d been there for 10 years, thought I was gonna live there, the rest of my life,

Rick Archer: presumably weren’t still in a relationship with that guy whom you had. Right? Right. Okay.

Mercedes Kirkel: All right. So I asked three times to check out and see if I was really getting this right. The message was very consistent. So I said, okay, because I had seen every time I had ever followed a message from spirit, my life had worked out for the best. So I took off close, took a few months, closed all my affairs and and left, the only thing was the message did not tell me where I was supposed to go. Just a beautiful big island. So I didn’t know where to go. So I went to visit my family on the mainland. And it turned out that my family was needing some help. My parents were both having some changes with, you know, advancing age, and I was so happy to be there and be able to help them with some things that they were really needing support with. And so I did that for about four months. And all the while I kept asking, Okay, spirit, where am I supposed to go? Where’s my home now and I didn’t hear a thing. Nothing. But almost to the day that I finished helping my parents did everything that I could see that I was able to do. I started getting messages then. And I got a few messages that guided me to Santa Fe, New Mexico and So I came here. And it was like the red carpet rolled out for me, everything I needed was provided immediately. And there were signs everywhere that this was exactly what was where I was supposed to be. With a couple of within a couple of days of arriving, I was meditating one morning, and all of a sudden, I felt a very strong presence around me a very beautiful, wonderful presence. And I especially felt it in my throat area. And I had the sense that I was blocking it somehow in my throat from completely coming through. And I really wanted to experience this presence. So I just put all my intention on whatever needed to happen for me to release this block in my throat for that to occur. And all of a sudden, a voice started speaking through me. And simultaneous with the voice beginning, there was this internal message that this was the voice of Mary Magdalene.

Rick Archer: And when you say speaking through you, it was just on your mental level, right? If someone had been in the room, they they would have heard you. Yes, I Okay, out loud. Even though you’re alone, you’re talking out loud,

Mercedes Kirkel: I was talking out loud. And it was not my usual voice at all. And I was just amazed. And she proceeded to give a full spiritual discourse, which now is the first chapter in the book, the first message. And this was a first for me, I had never had that kind of message come through from any being or from spirit where it was a full talk at a discourse. And I was just amazed and in awe. And by the time she ended, I was like, melted in a pool of bliss. Until I had a thought,

Rick Archer: how am I gonna remember this? Exactly.

Mercedes Kirkel: And I was like, horrified. I was like, I can’t just forget this. This was too amazing what happened. And also, I was very sure that this was not just for me, this was a very universal message that came through. And I felt like this was my responsibility to record it and share it. And so without a moment’s hesitation, or another thought, I asked her, would she give me the message again, so I could get my computer and type it into my computer? And she said, Yes, I want my computer. I’m very fast typist. And she gave me the entire message verbatim, word for word, exactly identical to the first.

Rick Archer: And this time, it was just coming to your mind, and you were typing

Mercedes Kirkel: Exactly. And this ad, I could not have done that I could not have recreated that message again, and it verbatim. And so what that did beyond allowing me to record the message, which I really wanted to do, but it really confirmed for me that this was Mary Magdalene, because I knew that I didn’t have that ability to do it. what had just happened. It’s like a miracle.

Rick Archer: Interesting. One doubt that came up when I first started reading your book and thinking about this, as you know, there’s a very creative level of the mind. And if you can tap into that sufficiently, you can become a Mozart or a Shakespeare or an Edison, and so on a tremendous creativity. And, you know, sometimes I wonder whether people who were channeling are just somehow tapping into an incredibly deep creative level of the mind and just expressing something from who knows where, but it doesn’t necessarily involve other beings or on subtle levels or anything. Like for instance, I had a friend who used to do channeling and he went that he claimed he was channeling Merlin, and he would come out with a Scottish brogue and I don’t even know if Merlin ever existed, but he would go into this big long thing that that Merlyn was giving him. And, you know, so I’ve always, you know, I’m not I’m not saying this. I’m saying this in a gentle way. Because obviously, for the most part, I totally believe you. But there’s these kinds of doubts that come up. And I wonder if there could be some other explanation and I’m hopefully giving voice to doubts that listeners may have that, you know, and offering you the opportunity to address those doubts before we proceed.

Mercedes Kirkel: I had those doubts too. I even asked one of my very close friends from Hawaii at one point who I shared some some of Mary’s messages with her and I said, Do you think this is just me? And she read it? And she said, No, I don’t think this is you. I’ve never heard you express anything like that. She said, she said there’s an aspect to it that is definitely related to you. But this is different. And that really helped me.

Rick Archer: Well, that’s another thing is, you know, could it be that there is some genuine message coming from Mary Magdalene or whoever the whoever is being channeled in this case, Mary Magdalene, and yet it’s being colored to a great extent by the individuality of the person. Like you know, there’s ROM in that whole thing and who knows to what extent that’s been colored by the personality of Jay Z night, however, having said that, you know, I answered that doubt in my own mind by saying well, but Mercedes actually prepared herself to a great extent as a as a vessel or a conduit before this started happening, you know, there was a genuine awakening to non dual state or whatever we want to call it. And so the likelihood of coloration is probably much diminished compared to somebody who hadn’t gone through such a transformation.

Mercedes Kirkel: I think everyone who channels, other beings, influences it to some extent or other there. Is this what you’re calling coloring? Yes, I believe and I think with different channels, it’s to a different degree. Yeah. And so that’s one of the things that I think people look for, or should look for, when they’re, you know, involved with someone who’s channeling is, how clear is the channel? How much is this person, you know, influencing? What’s coming through? And how much is it seem like it’s a pretty clear communication?

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, for one thing, it’s sort of had to be unless Mary Magdalene has learned English, maybe on that level, you know, all languages, but you don’t speak Aramaic. And so it was coming through in English. And

Mercedes Kirkel: now. And also, one of the things that was a real question for me was one of the things that happened, backtracking a little bit when I was in Hawaii is I got exposed to the nonviolent communication, teaching. And I was very involved with that I taught nonviolent communication for most of the time that I was in Hawaii, and was very dedicated to it thought it was a very valuable, you know, tool of raising consciousness really. And when Mary started coming through, she incorporated a lot of these concepts into her messages. So if you’re familiar with the nonviolent communication, you’ll see a lot of bleed through in her messages.

Rick Archer: So are you thinking that that was your nonviolent communication, that’s

Mercedes Kirkel: what I was worried about, very worried about. But later, because I was so new, I was such a tabula rasa, blank slate to this whole world, I didn’t know very much about channeling. And now having done it for, you know, three years and, and being much more familiar and understanding of what happens, the way that I see what happens with channeling is that the person has channeling, if they’re able to do this, they open themselves to the higher being, and the higher being kind of kind of reads their mind in a certain way. It’s like, you’re, you’re giving them access to your mind to the concepts in your mind, the language in your mind everything. And then they can use that to communicate with us. So it’s like my mind is the software in some ways, and all my ideas are the software to and whatever they find valuable in my mind, they select from that to make their communication. And that’s why there is this bleed through, I think, in this integration, and relative to my preparation, I think there was a lot of guidance going on for me in all the preparation during this,

Rick Archer: preparing you for it. Yeah, that rings true to me. So what you’re what you’re saying is that you wouldn’t be a very good channel for Albert Einstein, because you don’t you don’t have that kind of the software would be sadly lacking. Yeah, you don’t have that kind of training. But but for Mary Magdalene, you were a good fit, because you had gone through so many relevant things,

Mercedes Kirkel: right? And even the nonviolent communication, because so much of her a teaching is about the feminine, and especially she’s focusing on the emotional realm. And the nonviolent communication gave so many tools and understandings for working with that, that I think she found that is very helpful for what she wanted to communicate.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, so. So what’s next? This is your first you had your first session, and that there were 28 of them, as I recall, 25 of them over almost a month. And the whole thing just kept unfolding. And then I guess it stopped. I haven’t finished your book, but I got through a bunch of them. So lay it out for us. But what among all those readings or you can go take as much time as you like to explain as much detail of everything that that was conveyed, if you wish or just give us teasers, so people will buy the book, whatever, whatever.

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, I love to share about this information. I had so much passion about it. And I didn’t realize it at the time that he gave me the first message. But it was really her thesis statement for the whole book and he is absolutely brilliant. I am so impressed with her mind, and what I consider her brilliance. And he continued to every day come to me and give me a message today which became the structure of the book. Each message was a chapter and it was perfectly laid out where like I said the first message had her whole thesis statement for the book. And then, chapter by chapter, she was developing that with such depth, wisdom, brilliance, and all the way through to the ending. And it actually, I felt as I was around the 21st 22nd message, that it was winding to a close, I could feel that it’s a sense that she had said what she wanted to say it was complete. And I was at that point, I was feeling incredibly sad. I had so much treasure this, you know, amazing communion with this high being virtually every day. And I was really sad about it. However, she it’d become clear to me fairly early on in her giving me these messages that she was giving me a book. And it was like, I had my marching orders, I knew what I had to do. And I had a lot of work ahead of me, I knew. And so there was a mixture of like, it’s time for me to get out and do my part, time to let go of having this kind of connection with her that I had so much treasured. So around the 22nd message, I thought, This is it, this is the end. And then I went the next morning to meditate and thought am I going to be able to connect with her is she going to be here and she came through. And her quality was so different. For those first 22 messages, it was like she was fiery, she was intense. She had a mission and the mission was about us helping us and service to us. And now it was like, she knew that it was done, she had done what she had come to do through this interchange. And it was almost like, there was a sigh of relief like few, okay, now we can relax. And I felt a very different quality of like, kind of like two women together just a woman to woman so sweet. And she gave me that 23rd message is was the most special message of all, where she talked about her love of Yeshua. And it was so exquisite, very was the shortest message of all, and just spoke to my heart with such purity and beauty. So that was very, very special. And then the next day, she came again, and again, I was wondering if you’re gonna come Are we done, she came again, it was that same quality of sweetness, intimacy, and she said, today I’ll tell you more about sexuality, which she had definitely gone into in the book. But I had a sense that she wasn’t going too far that she was reserving that for what I thought was going to be a second book. But she knew that all of us have great interest in sexuality. And she was aware of that. And so she said, I’ll tell you more. And so in a very sweet, again, kind of woman to woman exchange, she gave me that message that was revealing a little bit more about the sacred sexuality practice that she was trained in, in her lineage. And then she came one more time. And that was the 25th message. And this one was like, to me, it was it’s funny that you mentioned Joan of Arc earlier, because I always think of this message as being like Joan of Arc, it was like the call to action, gathering the troops the rally to let’s go forth and do this now. And one of my friends called it her manifesto. And it’s very passionate, and she’s really, I feel like, you know, passing the torch to us and saying, I’ve given you all you need, go do this, this is important, and this will serve you. And that was the completion.

Rick Archer: We’re all 25 these messages the same in terms of speaking them out loud, and then going and sitting down and getting them again, or how did how did you? I mean, if he got them while you’re meditating, how did you go later and type them in?

Mercedes Kirkel: Now, knowing that I was going to be engaged in this process, I brought my computer with me into meditation.

Rick Archer: Oh, so you would just start typing, I would just start typing. And so, you know, looking at all 25 messages what what is the general teaching or message that has come through what what was the what was conveyed? You know, what is it that we need to know?

Mercedes Kirkel: Okay, but she starts out right from the start saying this is a very special time, and that we’re moving into a new age, and that it has everything to do with the balance of the masculine and the feminine. And that for most of us that is going to require strengthening of the feminine because most of us have for a very long time been suppressed in the feminine and the masculine has dominated not just culturally but within each of us in terms of our internal development of our own masculine and feminine and that this is the time out For the feminine to come forth, as both come becoming strengthened so that it comes into balance and also that the feminine is leading in this transition into the new age. And it’s a new age not of dominance of the feminine, but of union and unity and equality between the masculine and feminine. And that’s why she’s coming forth. And she said that she Buffy and Yeshua knew it was going to be 2000 years before the world was ready to receive the feminine in all of her forms, and to receive Mary Magdalene is in her form as leader and teacher, and that in her relationship with Yeshua, she was equal. They were both teachers, that the world wasn’t ready for her, and that they knew it wouldn’t be for 2000 years. So this is the time now.

Rick Archer: Now, Yeshua, or Jesus, you know, obviously made an impact by being on the earth in a physical form and performing miracles and all that stuff. In her case, she hasn’t been on the earth for 2000 years. So I guess there’s two questions here, what she’d been doing all this time? And, you know, how do they pass the time up there? And the second thing is, you know, how could you possibly make as big an impact as he made if she’s only going to remain in a non physical form? I mean, your book is only reaching a tiny, tiny fraction of humanity is, you know, can we expect hundreds of years from now to have a Mary Magdalene proliferated throughout the cultures of the world to the extent that Jesus did early on? Or the feminine? Or, you know, what have you this gives you plenty to chew on here?

Mercedes Kirkel: Ultimately, I guess I would, my answer would be yes. But there’s different aspects to you know, different questions you are asking, I think we are moving into a time that’s going to be about the balance of the masculine and feminine. And I think it’s inevitable, that you know, I guess I believe in God, I believe in this spiritual process that seems so real to me, and I don’t think there’s, I think there’s a choice about how we’re going to get there, how long it’s going to take, but in my mind, there’s no question that this is going to happen. And so with that, there’s going to be this change, where there is going to be this balance of relating to the feminine leaders, the feminine spiritual teachers, figures, and to Mother God as much as Father God,

Rick Archer: Hillary in 2016. So would you see, you know, environmental degradation, and the whole, you know, what 99% 1%, you know, economic imbalance, and, you know, various warfare and all that kind of stuff. Are these all manifestations of imbalance between masculine and feminine?

Mercedes Kirkel: Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. For example, take the environment, one of the things that she’s talking about is that there are three foundations of the feminine within human beings, and that’s our body, our sexuality and our emotions. And that those have to be strong, infused with the divine feminine and purified, there’s, there’s a maturing and fullness in each of us for those foundations to be in their full state. And when I look at the environment, it’s first of all, to me, it’s a manifestation of the way we relate to our own bodies, because that’s the body of the earth. And so if we can treat it with such abuse, it’s a reflection of how we treat the feminine, absolutely, and how we relate to our own feminine, how suppressed it is, for us.

Rick Archer: I pick up a lot of garbage as I ride my bike around town, you know, and recycle it or throw it away. And I wrote a letter to the editor of the paper a few years ago, and I said, Well, you can’t expect the people who are throwing this stuff by the roadside to stop doing it. Because considering what most of these containers contain, they don’t even care about their own body. So how are they going to care about the environment, but at least maybe the rest of us could pick up the stuff and give ourselves a clean town. But that said, I mean, if people don’t even care about their own bodies, what they the ruination of the environment is a logical extension of that.

Mercedes Kirkel: Right? Absolutely. And, you know, relative to war, there’s so much that could be said about that. But I think in some fundamental ways, it’s seated in our you know, conflict within ourselves and our pain within ourselves. That and that has everything to do with our emotional body and the way that we’ve related learn to relate to pain. And that is more than anything else, what Mary Magdalene is talking about in the book because she says more than anything else, that’s what’s holding us back in our spiritual growth and our movement into this new age. And that Um,

Rick Archer: what is it that’s holding us back?

Mercedes Kirkel: That pain, emotions altogether at including pain were given to us as humans as a pathway to connect with God. And most of us never learned that. And instead, we learned how to relate to painful emotions, especially in a way that’s blocking our union with God, we learned how to try to get out of pain as quickly as possible, to not feel it, and to avoid it as much as we’re able. And all of those things are obstructing us. And her biggest work that she’s bringing forth in the book is very specific and clear instruction about a different way to relate to pain that will liberate us and bring us into union with God. And what does that okay? Well, she’s, it has steps. And the first step is, and this applies to joyful emotions, as well as painful emotions. But for the most part, most of us aren’t hung up on our joyful emotions, it’s their painful emotions that we have a hard time with. So the first step is when you’re experiencing some kind of pain is to notice and become aware that you’re in pain. Now, this step is only necessary because most of us have developed strategies of avoiding pain. And the strategies are so deep seated and so immediate, that for most of us, when we’re in pain, we immediately go into something else. And then we think what’s happening is the something else instead of the pain. And for most of us, we don’t even notice what’s really going on what our pain is. And so

Rick Archer: we might indulge in food or TV or other diversions or something in order to

Mercedes Kirkel: be kind of busy. Blame is a big one, we go into blame. And that is projecting the pain outward onto something else with our thinking. It’s, it’s your fault, it’s because of this blah, blah, blah, instead of I’m in pain right now. So there’s all different levels, and most of us have our favorites, the ones that we’ve developed as our personal style, but most of us have them. So we need this first step of coming into awareness that we’re actually having a feeling and in some kind of pain, the second step is to make a conscious choice to open to the pain, even a step beyond that is to embrace it to fully allow it to the point that you merge with the feeling. Then the next step after that, is, again, a consciousness step. And this is to identify the source of the pain. And most of us mistakenly think that the pain has been caused by something external to us some event that triggered this pain. But Mary is suggesting No, that’s not the case, that the source of the pain is something within ourselves, that has not, it’s not being fulfilled. And she calls these our inner divine qualities. And so she says, the actual function of emotions, and in this case, painful emotions, is it’s a communication device that lets us know that something’s going on with these deeper inner divine qualities, and that somehow we’ve gotten disconnected from them. And we need to reconnect. So at this point, what I’d like to do is give a practical example, because this is very abstract. And I think it really helps to ground it and understand. So the example that I like to use is a simple one. And, sadly, I think, a very common one for a lot of us, which is that we’re driving out in the road somewhere, and suddenly someone cuts us off. And for most people, the typical response is some form of anger, ranging anything from mild annoyance to complete rage. And if you’re a spiritually oriented person, and you’re really dedicated to bringing your spirituality into your everyday life, perhaps you might have a more spiritual kind of response, such as blessing the other person, or staying detached, not getting affected by what the other person has just done something like that. Or

Rick Archer: you might spontaneously do those things. It might not be manipulative, you might just not react as much as somebody else might react without, without doing all kinds of

Mercedes Kirkel: right. But it’s a response, kind of a response that you’re making sure, Mary suggesting something different for many of these. She’s saying rather than doing something in response to what just happen that’s, you know, in in relationship to the driver or in terms of taking care of yourself or something like that. That actually, first thing is to bring this awareness to notice what you’re feeling. And so in this case, the feeling might be Let’s say anger, about what just happened. And that, the next step would be to open to that feeling. And fully embrace it allow yourself to really have the experience of anger, not having to do anything in response to it just be with. And this is one of the key characteristics of the feminine is it has to do with being rather than doing.

Rick Archer: So might be handy to pull your car over to the side of the road. So you could really, really delve into it. Because otherwise, you’ve got to keep putting your attention on other things. If you’re driving down the road, you can’t give it your full attention,

Mercedes Kirkel: especially if you’re new to this process. As you start to get familiar with this process, it becomes very quick and very easy to to go through these steps, even while you’re engaged in some other form of functioning. But in the beginning gap, you might need to give it more attention to that that might be really valuable. So you allow yourself to really open and have this experience of being with the feeling, in this case, the anger, then the next step is to bring your consciousness to inquire what is the source within me of this anger. And again, this is something that if you engage this process, you’ll start to become more familiar with how to identify that. And in the book, there’s actually a chart given that comes from the Center for nonviolent communication. And it’s a chart of what they call human needs. And she says these are basically the same as what she’s referring to his inner divine qualities. And so it can be helpful to look at all these and they list about 80 different of these qualities. In this example that we’re giving the quality, well, first, let me say that the qualities are always something beautiful. All of our painful emotions, all of our joyful, wonderful emotions are always sourcing out of something beautiful within us. And so in this case, what I would identify as what is may likely be the source would be safety, that

Rick Archer: your safety has been jeopardized,

Mercedes Kirkel: right, you were meeting safety and you got disconnected from your internal sense of safety, the way safety lives within you. And ultimately, our true safety is in God. These qualities ultimately, are always leading us to the divine. But in but in this practical sense, this practical circumstance, we got disconnected from my sense of safety. Oftentimes, there’s more than one that’s involved. So there may be others that maybe were secondary, not as important in this case, it could have been something having to do with consideration or cooperation amongst drivers, that your your the qualities of consideration and cooperation weren’t fulfilled for you, in this event that just happened. So it’s some kind of mixture of safety, along with consideration and cooperation. So what happens next is to allow yourself to, well, when you identify the inner divine qualities that are the right ones, that got disconnected in this outer event, what happens is a very natural process of reconnection. You’ve identified them, and suddenly you go back into Oh, yes, these are those beautiful qualities within me. And a natural process happens of reconnecting in this case with safety, with consideration cooperation. When that happens, the feelings tend to either go away altogether, or at least recede. Because they’ve done their job, their job was actually to bring you to this inner connection within yourself. And if you don’t make that inner connection, the feelings remain because they’re still trying to do their job. So that’s how feelings get stuck enough and how they don’t get healed. Because we haven’t done we haven’t made this connection with our wholeness. Once we make it the feelings recede, we drop into this state of wholeness. And we’ll know we’re there because we generally experience peace. That is the number one quality that most people will report. I feel peace now. And you also feel like I’m back. I’m whole within myself. So then there’s one more step from there. And the final step is to consider from this place now, which Mary says, what you’ve really reconnected with is your inner divinity. You’ve reconnected with God ultimately. And this is your bridge that takes you back to God. Now that I’m coming back from my union, if not now that I am in Union from with God, from that place of union, what action if any, do I need to take? In this driving situation? The primary action you probably needed to take was that reconnection and there’s Probably nothing else to be done at this point. But in many circumstances, there will be things that you need to do that now you’ll do them from a different place than that initial point of being disconnected when you were still disconnected from yourself and God, now it’s going to come from your wholeness and your peace, and most likely, that will be very different.

Rick Archer: So it sounds a little bit analytical, but I’m sure that with practice, it becomes more second nature. It almost also sounds like you need to memorize all those non dual communication points. They are nonviolent communication points in other in order to identify which thing has been violated, you know? Yes, yeah. Because otherwise, you might not realize, oh, safety and consideration those two.

Mercedes Kirkel: It’s like a new map. And it does help to have that chart and all that. As matter of fact, I, when I was first learning this, I made a sheet that I laminated, and it really helps me to have that. But eventually, you get to know it, because it’s like you’re learning your inner landscape. And this is actually something that’s very natural to us. But we’ve been cut off from it, we were, according to Mary, we were very intentionally trained to deny our feelings starting from very young children, because it’s supported the third dimensional authority structure, when people are cut off from their feelings and then cut off from the the source in the inner divine qualities, they lose their power. And it’s very easy then for them to be controlled and give their power over to outside authority. And she says, that’s part of this transition that we’re going through into the New Age is where we’re not going to be giving away our power anymore. We’re keeping our power and it’s going to be a very different kind of structure that we’re going to work in. It’s not an authoritarian structure.

Rick Archer: What do you do if the situation is more ongoing, let’s say go up. To give you two examples. Let’s say that in the traffic example, you actually have an accident and the other guy gets out and starts yelling at you and yelling, and yelling, and yelling. So it’s not just a brief thing, something that continues and are more perhaps serious situation is some relationship in which there’s emotional abuse that’s going on month after month, year after year. Easy to numb down in that kind of a situation. And I suppose, are you saying that this kind of practice could be helpful for a person in that circumstance and could enable them to gain the inner strength necessary to take appropriate action. And

Mercedes Kirkel: absolutely, this is not about being passive and not taking action, or separating yourself, you know, from a as somehow spiritually separate place. This is about empowering yourself, and then you’re ready to move into action. And the actions are really limitless, what you might choose, you know, you might be able to speak in a way that calms the other person down, you might choose to separate from the situation, you might, you know, you might do some of those things you initially thought of doing such as blessing or whatever. But but you’re doing it now not as a distraction from your your own disconnection, you’re doing it from your wholeness. And based on the principle that our consciousness is constantly creating our reality, this will actually create a different reality. And in my experience, it really does, it’s really true. So we’re talking about a different way of approaching manifestation. In the New Age, spiritual community, a lot of people are very interested in manifestation. And they’re doing it from the point of view of our thinking, changing our beliefs and changing our mind. And that is one way of approach, which I think depends on your qualities, how accessible and easy that is for you or not. But this is another way of approach which is through our feelings and our inner divine qualities that’s also very powerful for manifestation. And ultimately, I think, the most powerful is the union of the two that have access to both.

Rick Archer: Well, those things are much go much deeper than thinking I mean, if we think of an ocean analogy, just thinking could be like the waves on the surface and, you know, having intentions or desires or resolves or whatever, just on that level might not have much impact, much strength. But you know, if you can access the depth than well, to stretch the ocean analogy, I mean, a shallow pond can only rise up in ripples, nothing much more, but a deep ocean could rise up in tidal waves and the tidal waves are much more powerful than the ripples. Yeah. Okay. So, you said that, you know, if you had to summarize Mary Magdalene message, this whole thing about feeling pain and using it as a technique for going deeper and merging with the divine that as I gathered was kind of the core message. But what else may or if that if I’m a little bit mistaken. as to what the core message was, you can reiterate and clarify and help everyone.

Mercedes Kirkel: I think that’s her greatest gift that she’s given is this practice relative to our emotions and relating to them in a whole different way. But it’s a part of this bigger piece of strengthening our whole feminine for each of us men and women alike. And it has these three aspects relative to our relationship to our body, our relationship to our sexuality, and our relationship to our emotions. And so those are the three areas that she says when they’re strong, then the Divine Feminine can take her seat in our heart, and which so many of us are aware that that’s what’s so needed is to be in our hearts. Yeah, she says at that point, there’s two aspects to the mind. And the mind is really more than masculine, you know, pull within each one of us. And she says, our lower mind is made up of our rational thinking mind and our subconscious. When we’re strong and seated in our heart, she says that becomes in service to our heart. For most of us right now, our lower mind has taken over, because we haven’t been seated in our heart because of these three other areas not being strong. And so it’s like, someone needs demand the ship here, so the lower mind is taken over. And that’s why some of us so many of us are plagued by this kind of constant thinking and all the complications of that. But that comes into balance. When we’re seated in the heart, the lower mind, relaxes, says, Okay, I can just be in service to do what you know, I need to do the mind and thinking is still important. And then the higher mind can open up, and that is the seat of the divine masculine. And she says when when that. So it’s kind of a progressive process, these three areas of body, sexuality and emotion becoming strong, going into the heart, the lower mind, taking its place in service to the heart, the higher mind then opening, and this marriage happening between the heart and higher mind. And that’s the gateway that leads us into this next stage, what I refer to as the fourth dimension, the New Age, we’re moving into,

Rick Archer: I presume, correct me if I’m wrong, that the book doesn’t contain everything one might need to know in order to attend to these three things, that there might be other practices or procedures or therapies or whatever that a person might need to get into. But this is just the book is sort of a introduction and the starting point, maybe or it’s an

Mercedes Kirkel: overview and an understanding relative to the body. She’s saying, she is very clear that there’s tremendous wisdom out there,

Rick Archer: like pure food, yoga, and all kinds of things, exercise, all sorts of things. Fresh air,

Mercedes Kirkel: he touched on a couple points relative to the body, the main one being shame, and how important it is for many of us to feel shame and to love our bodies. And she talked a little bit about that as being like maybe the one area that could use some more attention for a lot of us. And then relative to sexuality, she talked more about that and about relating to sexuality as a sacred function and in to if we’re choosing to be sexually active, engaging it in a sacred way.

Rick Archer: And we’re not what about all the monks and nuns of this world?

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, then we need to engage our sexual energy in a sacred way. It’s not that we necessarily need to be practicing and engaging sexuality per se.

Rick Archer: Right? So in other words, the energy is sublimated and transmuted in some way if we’re going about it, right. And we’re living that particular lifestyle.

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes, you would recommend sublimation?

Rick Archer: Well, but what if you’re, what if you’re a priest or a monk or something? I mean, obviously, some of them couldn’t keep their hands off the choir boys. But you know, the others that are

Mercedes Kirkel: For good reasons. Because they’re not making right use of that energy. Sublimation fundamentally doesn’t work. It’s like whatever you resist persists.

Rick Archer: Well, sublimation implies conversion, though it doesn’t just it’s not the same as repression.

Mercedes Kirkel: Okay, exactly, then I can agree with you.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Mercedes Kirkel: And the pathways in sacred sexuality, we’re basically using the sexual energy to activates sacred spiritual pathways. And that can be done whether we have a partner or not, whether we’re engaging sexuality or not, the practice is fundamentally it’s very similar to Kundalini yoga. And so in that sense, it doesn’t require what we consider sexuality, you know, over the partner overt sexuality, it’s working with the sexual energy. So that can be done by anyone and actually needs to be done in my point of view by everyone. It can happen organically. It can happen without having, you know, intentional focus on it. But if you learn the practices and fees to engage them, you’re more likely to have this development and the strength happen more quickly and be of help for you be of service to you. So she’s highly rated mending there, but she didn’t go into, you know, specific details about how to do that. And my sense was always that would be a second book. And in fact, there is a second book coming that will be specifically giving the practices of sacred sexuality. And

Rick Archer: Mary Magdalene, but based upon your own under your own knowledge, and

Mercedes Kirkel: from Mary, she’s already made this book back, back. So, and then the third arena being working with emotions. And that’s the one that she gave lots of detailed instruction about in this book, because he felt that was the the one area that could make the most difference for most people. And the one area that’s blocking us the most in general right now.

Rick Archer: Nice. I have a question that might take us off in a different direction. But is there any anything more you want to say about that whole the whole package of knowledge that we’ve just been discussing.

Mercedes Kirkel: The other thing that she goes into in some of the later chapters is she does go into things that involve our thinking and the way we tend to use our mind. And mostly it’s in relationship to those patterns of avoidance that we’ve developed. And one of them that she talks about a lot is judgment, blame, the idea of seeing the world through the lens of right and wrong and judging certain things is right, and certain things is wrong, and how that is holding us back. And what happened that the source of that, again, is being divorced from our heart and our feeling, and that the solution to that is not to try to be judgmental, because again, that’s a resistive active action, instead, to get to what that’s blocking, which is our feeling. And the judgment will naturally, you know, dissolve.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there was a nice quote from somebody I used to see if I still have it on my iPad here. Now, I think I deleted it. Anyway. Oh, wait, here we go. She said that, you know, is this from the little woman I interviewed last week a moto Moto G, but she said, you know, you’re operating from the personal when things appear black and white, you judge right and wrong, labeled good and bad.

Mercedes Kirkel: That is a hallmark of the third dimension. Yeah. And going beyond that we are starting to move into fourth dimensional consciousness. And that, to me, is what Mary is supporting us in doing.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Which doesn’t mean that you don’t I mean, let’s let’s play with this a bit. I just listened to a talk by a man that I had interviewed a while back, who wrote a book about child prostitution in Nepal, in India, how as many as 200,000 young girls had been kidnapped from Nepal, and they’re living in brothels and various Indian cities. Now, I have a pretty strong judgment about that is, that’s wrong. So you know, it doesn’t. So I don’t think you’re saying, Oh, just be you know, everything’s cool. Whatever happens, you know, it’s all an illusion. You know, you’re not saying anything? Like,

Mercedes Kirkel: I’m not saying that, because that would be disempowering. Right, say that? That’s sort of like to me like a spiritual bypass. No, I’m saying that you take it to your feeling, in that this case, you’re probably feeling horrified. Yeah. If this is so horrifying to you, and the inner divine quality would be, you know, that you absolutely, you know, have this profound need for protection for human life and well being.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And in his case, this is Stuart pare, and I’m referring to his he’s set up a whole foundation. And they’re, you know, raising money and doing all kinds of stuff to try to combat the problem is a very spiritual guys. But so, so this whole thing about judgment and right and wrong, does not mean, you don’t take a stand. I mean, Jesus himself if the story were true, he went into the temples and turn the money changers and all that is pretty fiery dude at times.

Mercedes Kirkel: But if you take a moment to feel the difference between the stance that’s wrong, right? Where I feel that I feel that right here in my head that I’m located in my head, and it puts me into a combative kind of disposition. As opposed to that is, I feel horrified. I so much need protection for life. And everyone’s well being, you know, and protection, especially for young people who, you know, are more vulnerable. That puts me in my heart. And it also puts me in my solar plexus, my power center. I have power to engage to act from that place, but it’s a different place. It’s not a confrontational place. It’s an empowered place of protection of life and protection of vulnerable beings.

Rick Archer: It has an interesting implications for a lot of these issues that are so polarizing in today’s society, gay marriage, gun control, abortion, all these things that people are on diametrically opposed polls and you know, just know little grit, no compromise, no middle ground, probably because they’re on the level of the mind and trying to consider these things. And if if there could be a sinking into the heart, then there might be some resolutions to some of these things.

Mercedes Kirkel: That’s right. Because when you connect with your own inner divine qualities, this is the source of compassion. Because ultimately, everyone has the same inner divine qualities, they might manifest in different ways in their life, they might have different strategies of trying to fulfill these inner divine qualities, but it’s kind of like jeans, we all have the same qualities, we all have the same connection to God. And so when we connect with those, we feel our connection to all other beings, and we start to feel our care for other beings when we’re connected. One of our natural human qualities is care for others, that is one of our inner divine qualities that gets activated when we’re whole and within ourselves. And oftentimes, in situations where people are diametrically opposed around an issue, oftentimes, the underlying inner divine quality is the same one, they just have different strategies that they have in their minds for how they have to get this fulfilled. But when they connect, when even one person connects with their inner divine qualities, it can help everyone to connect and all of a sudden they realize their sameness, their their connection, their non separation at the core level, and it can do amazing things in terms of opening our creativity to find new strategies that aren’t in opposition, that are what Mary calls inclusive, inclusive of everyone, rather than me versus you, we go into me and you.

Rick Archer: That’s a nice point. I mean, take gay rights. For example. You know, one person might say, I love God, but I also love this person who happens to be the same gender as I and I want that person to be my partner. And then on the other pole, you have got some guy saying, I love God, but God says, This is bad. It’s like, it was like God, so the Old God is on our side. alibi for wars is in both sides are saying it, you know, but obviously, if you sink down to a deeper level, there’s perhaps not that polarity.

Mercedes Kirkel: Right? They’re both wanting respect for their choices, support for their beliefs and values both sides are. So what other strategies can we look at that would that would support this for everyone respect for everyone’s choices, support for everyone’s beliefs and values?

Rick Archer: Now, you said something a minute ago, that triggered a new question, which is, what if one person is really operating from the heart, but everyone else isn’t like in taking Jesus as a prime example. He was operating from a very deep, profound cosmic level, guess who got crucified? You know, because every, all the people in the power that be in his society, we’re not operating from that level. So he was completely misunderstood and feared and killed? So does it make one vulnerable? susceptible to, you know, evil forces? If one does one become innocent and lamb like and then get slaughtered? You know what I mean,

Mercedes Kirkel: from a third dimensional position, it appears this way. And I think this is one of the fears that people have at the third dimension. I, this is a very interesting question and a very wonderful question that I think about, because I believe that there is more that was going on in the crucifixion, than we have yet understood, including me. I have this very strong belief, but I don’t know what it will be. Yet. It’s not clear to me. But I absolutely believe that there was a very clear purpose for what occurred, that’s beyond what we understand. And part of this is that my own experience, my experience of coming from, anytime that I come from a higher consciousness, I see that my life is different, that I have a different experience in life. And sometimes, I wonder, you know, I hear from people who are living in Santa Fe, and I hear people express, you know, Santa Fe is, and by the way, I live in Santa Fe, and other people will express Oh, Santa Fe is so hard and there’s so many people who are suffering and I’ve had this happen I’ve had that happen. I go wow, are you living in the same place? I’m a different experience. I

Rick Archer: think Santa Fe is hard try Newark.

Mercedes Kirkel: But I believe that that’s what happens is that if people have an experience that reflects their consciousness, and it’s not a judgment, but it’s actually like a physics it’s a law of how reality works and how manifestation works. So I believe that, you know, taking the example of Jesus, there was more going on than we realized about why that manifested in his case. And, you know, there’s this concept of being a bodhisattva and service to the world that is in Buddhism. And perhaps there’s an element of that. I don’t know altogether, but I just have a very clear sense that it’s not because he was vulnerable, and he lost in the third dimensional powers one, that’s an I

Rick Archer: don’t either, I was just kind of playing devil’s advocate. I mean, some people say, what happened was, he took on huge current amount of karma, and that if you align yourself with him, then you become one of the beneficiaries of his having done that.

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes, that’s a whole nother explanation. That’s very possible to me. I don’t have clarity about what it is. But I have a very strong sense that it’s definitely for a higher purpose. And it was a conscious choice. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Phrase conscious choice. I mean, it’s not like I doubt that it was that he thought, I think it would be a good idea for me to get crucified was more like, he’s in tune with the Divine Will. And the course of events were unfolding. And this is what came to pass. And for a moment, he if the, if the scriptural account is correct, he said, you know, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me. And then it was okay, let thy will be done. You know, because he was accustomed to going with the flow in the highest sense of that phrase.

Mercedes Kirkel: That’s right. And I can say, from my own experience of receiving guidance from spirit, it doesn’t happen in advance. It’s not like spirit says, Okay, here’s the future. So you don’t have to worry about it. This is what’s gonna happen. I usually get my guidance, right, when I’m the fly. That’s right, I say I’m on a need to know basis. And evidently, I don’t need to know very far in advance. And I’ve heard this from other people who channel who get guidance and spirit that they have the exact same experience.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Let’s talk about, well, about a little bit more about Mary Magdalene, his role in the world. I mean, you mentioned some other guy whose name I think started with K also who had written a book about her. And is it just you too? Or is she appearing to many, many people all over the place? And, you know, and and not only she, but are there a whole bunch of these higher sort of beings that are appearing to a whole bunch of people. And this is just one way in which, you know, kind of divine guidance is being brought into the world?

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes, I very strongly feel that’s the case. And there are many, many people who are getting messages from Mary Magdalene, many people who’ve written books, some of them are books about what happened, you know, and some of them are written as fiction or historical fiction about what happened. Some of them aren’t, some of them are studies of her life with Jesus back 2000 years ago, and some of them are more like, in my case, she was very clear, she did not want to focus on her life with Jesus, or what happened 2000 years ago that for this piece that she was bringing through for me, it was about helping us and focusing on us and our spiritual growth very much the way I understand that Jesus was working with people back when he taught. And I think she is appearing to many, many people. And in different ways, My way was a teaching way and instruction way. In others, it’s more in terms of a story because some people that will really, you know, speak to their heart and move them. In other words, people, it’s more historical. And when I started sharing with people about what was happening with me, in the beginning, I was very afraid to share I thought people were gonna say, you are crazy, or else be angry at me. But that’s not what happened. You know, that’s not the story or whatever, because he does say some things that are challenging to the

Rick Archer: traditional church, our relationship with Jesus and everything. Yeah, that she was a priestess of ISIS,

Mercedes Kirkel: that they were practicing sacred sexuality, those things for many people are. Yeah, so I was very worried about, you know, telling people and at the same time, I was so excited about what was happening. And so I started initially little by little to share the story. And I was absolutely amazed that almost again, and again, I would have the experience of telling people that I was receiving messages from Mary Magdalene, I’d hardly gotten the words out my mouth. And people started telling me about their experiences this Mary, and I had no idea that she was coming to so many people that so many people felt connected to her. It’s like an underground movement that I was totally oblivious to. I didn’t even know that so many people had written books about Mary Magdalene. When I first started getting this No, I didn’t know. And, again, I think that was in some ways by intention. She didn’t want me to be influenced by all the other stuff out there so that I would be a clear channel in that sense, but I’ve come to see that there’s immense information and huge numbers. Have people who feel a connection to Mary. And I actually, at this point, I see Mary as what I would consider a group entity at a higher dimension that I think she did incarnate at more than one time. But I think particularly in that lifetime as a particular individual, that said, She’s operating in a higher dimension. And in the higher dimensions, people more and more are functioning as group entities. And oftentimes, when I channeled beings that they’ll give the channeled message, and say, We, this, Li that because they’re speaking as a group, their level of non separation has progressed to a whole different degree than we’re familiar with, at this level.

Rick Archer: Interesting committees. soul groups. Yeah. Yeah, that’s interesting. I mean, you know, we are groups to even on the human level, but we don’t quite see it is clearly because the, the duality is so dominant, but there are, you know, their collective clusters of like minded people, and even like a city has its own collective consciousness and a country and, you know, and continent, and there are all sorts of, you know, degrees of organization, and going to microscopically, I mean, we’re a committee, I mean, we’re all you know, trillion cells, and all these other little things going on, which in and of themselves are autonomous, but taking collectively and cooperatively form of a human being.

Mercedes Kirkel: And then their interactions, you have people that you meet where you feel this instant connection with this, you know, like their family, you know, them or you resonate with them, I believe that’s a sign that this is someone that at a deeper level, you have the soul connection, and you’re coming from a higher level grouping.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Michael Newton, who wrote destiny of souls even said that, you know, some souls might actually be incarnate in multiple places at the same time, the same soul, you know, I might be living in Canada and and here also, but who knows, interesting to speculate. Now, you mentioned that, you know, you’re channeling others, as well as Mary, I’m not very tuned into this whole channeling world. But it’d be interesting to take a survey and see how many different entities are coming through, and whether this predominance of the feminine now or you hear people channeling Saint Germain and all. And you know, again, I take it all with a slight grain of salt, and half of the people can be just making it up. But who else are you channeling? And do you have a kind of a more of a global view now as to what’s happening in this whole realm worldwide?

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, what happened was, after this month long period, where I got these messages from Mary, it changed me. And suddenly I was able to channel other beings and have other beings come through, which I never had before. And again, I was very, you know, this was, I was like a baby, this was so new to me. And I tested it first with just, you know, friends, or whatever, see if this was real. And I started having groups and inviting people to come and started channeling and now I do that regularly. And I have what I call my Holy Family, i There are five beings that I feel personally most connected to. And these are Archangel Michael, mother, Mary, the goddess Isis, and Yeshua and Mary Magdalene. And those are my personal ones that I feel I’m closest to,

Rick Archer: and you’re certain that that’s who they are. And there’s not a doubt in your mind that that this one is this and this one is that

Mercedes Kirkel: absolutely. And when they come through, their energies are so different, it’s very clear. And then also, I sometimes have other beings come through, I’ve had all kinds of beings come through, and in my case, they’re always ascended beings. You know, some people who channel will contact your deceased relatives or something like that. I don’t do that. I’ve never done that. But I channeled these ascended high beings that come through, and there are quite a few different ones. And most of them I’ve heard of, but lots of times I know nothing about them. I’ve just heard the name or something. And sometimes the being will come through, usually it’s some angel or other and they’ll say their name, and I’ve never heard of that being.

Rick Archer: And when they do come through, are you saying the stuff out loud so that people in your gathering can hear or is it sometimes subjective just now?

Mercedes Kirkel: I say it out loud and record it, and then I transcribe it later?

Rick Archer: Oh, so there’s recordings? Yeah. A lot of book materials.

Mercedes Kirkel: What do I ever, and most of the time they get published. I have an online journal that publishes them, I put them in my blog, I get published in Sedona Journal of awakening, and so they’re out there to read. And I was gonna say one other thing. The other thing that opened up for me was that I started being able to do Akashic Record readings. And the Akashic Record is what’s going considered at the energy level of the Earth, it’s the record of all the souls and all the beings who have ever incarnated. And it’s often likened to a big library and that every soul has their own volume in the library. And so to read the Akashic records, like opening up that volume for that person, which you can only do with their permission, and then it’s also a form of channeling because you’re channeling with their guides of their Akashic Record, and bringing through information, which includes past life information and things like that, to help people with their to understand their souls journey, and to support them and healing anything that needs healing and moving forward, what are their next steps in moving forward on their soul path?

Rick Archer: Does anybody ever try to come through? That doesn’t seem so nice.

Mercedes Kirkel: I have never had that experience. I know other people have people have. And I do do certain things that I think are protective. And I think some of it is all the background I’ve done in the work, the spiritual work that I’m only inviting in certain energies that are for the highest good of all, I’m very clear about that. And I’ve never had any problems at all.

Rick Archer: And do you ever feel overshadowed or taken over to a greater extent than you would want to be? Or are you kind of grounded in your integrity and just this process is taking place but without pushing you off into a corner?

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, first of all, it’s always by choice. It never happens. Like suddenly I’m taken over. And I was surprised. I always have to accept and allow it. So I’m always at choice. And I can always end it at any time. And when I’m channeling, it’s like, I’m in a light trance. I am aware of what’s happening around but I’m not focusing on it. And, and afterwards, after I cancel, I very quickly forget what happened. And especially for personal readings. I’m very glad about that. I don’t want to remember other people’s stuff at all.

Rick Archer: Totally gone the way I guess maybe Edgar Cayce he was he went as deep trance,

Mercedes Kirkel: trance, and I’m in a light trance state, and even the channeled readings of higher beings coming through. I pretty quickly forget what happened because I’m really in an altered state. And but when I go back and hear the the tape later, the recording, I’m like, oh, yeah, no, I remember that. Oh, yeah. But, but if you asked me what was in there, I wouldn’t know without, you know, listening to it with my third dimensional conscious mind.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And then some channelers it would appear, you know, undergo some deleterious influence, like I believe, what’s that woman’s name, Jane Roberts, or something that channel was Seth material, I think that really took a toll on her health and everything. So you’re not noticing any kind of

Mercedes Kirkel: added on? I feel like I it’s a gift, I get this infusion of light. And yeah, that’s wonderful. So I don’t feel anything.

Rick Archer: I think a point that bears repeating with regard to what we’ve just been talking about, this is an analogy that marshy Mahesh yogo was used to use, he said, you know, life is like a big territory. And in this territory, there are all kinds of things you could explore, you know, diamond mines, and gold mines and silver mines and whatnot, you could go explore those. But if you don’t capture the fort first that commands the territory, then you’re gonna be kind of, in a dicey situation, exploring all this stuff. First of all, you won’t even own the whole territory. But secondly, you will always be in jeopardy of something if you’re exploring into something that doesn’t really belong to you. So you advocated capturing the fort, which by which he meant, you know, self realization, or Enlightenment or consciousness awakening. Yeah. And so, you know, you’ve explained to us in the whole unfolding of your story, that that was the course of events for you, you weren’t even interested in this stuff. And until and you didn’t seek it out, it kind of came to you once the foundation had been established.

Mercedes Kirkel: Right, exactly.

Rick Archer: So you also spoke earlier of these 12 dimensions? And could you touch upon those a little bit and kind of give when you have say, you know, new age coming in? And all? Presumably that means kind of unfoldment of these higher dimensions on Earth? Or not? Let me know what you say. But what do you envision the new age being? What kind of timescale are we talking about? And, you know, what, what are these dimensions?

Mercedes Kirkel: Yeah. And first of all, I want to start by saying that this is my map that I use, and other people have different maps. And some people I have 12 dimensions in mind. Some people have 24 dimensions in theirs. And so when you hear somebody say, the fourth dimension, or the fifth dimension, they’re not always talking about the same thing. But I think fundamentally, the progression that most people are seeing is the same course that we’re talking about. But different people see different divisions within that different steps that we’re making. So, that being said, I do see that This spiritual evolution into a new age is a transition into what I call the fourth dimension. And I talked a little bit about that earlier about it being like the dream state, some of the qualities of it are that it is very emotionally based, and less physically based. And because of that this emotional mastery becomes more important. And it’s one of the reasons why it’s very, why I think Mary Magdalene is focusing on it, in addition to the fact that it’s holding us back. Once you get in the fourth dimension, your emotional frequency is going to determine the kind of experience you have. And if you’re not strong enough to hold the high enough frequency, you’re probably going to take yourself out of the fourth dimension, just the way we try to wake ourselves up from a nightmare, because we don’t want to be there. So and we’ll probably come back into third dimension to do more work to gain that emotional mastery. So that’s one of the aspects of the fourth dimension. things manifest instantly in the fourth dimension. And this is one of the hallmarks, you know, people want some people say, Oh, we’re already in the fourth dimension, we’re already in the fifth dimension. I’m like, Oh, okay. Are you manifesting everything immediately in your world? By my definition, that’s part of the fourth dimension. And it’s

Rick Archer: obviously the, you know, Larry King question here would be, are you manifesting everything in your world? Mercedes? And so So you’re saying you’re not fully in the fourth dimension yourself? Right?

Mercedes Kirkel: Moving into that, and I’m definitely manifesting more and more. And I see that, as you know, I’m strengthening in that fourth dimensional aspect. But no, I’m not instantly manifesting every thought I have in every feeling that I have,

Rick Archer: nor would you want to probably know, I don’t

Mercedes Kirkel: think I’m ready for that. Gracious of spirits. But I think it protects us from being in a situation before we’re ready for it. Right. Right. So that is another quality that, that I think we’ll learn how to work with. And at that point, so much of what we’re familiar with, if the third dimension, including one of the hallmarks of the third dimension that Mary talks about is the sense of lack, that there’s not enough here and based on that, that we have to struggle for our survival for getting the things we want, it takes a lot of hard work, this isn’t going to be the case of the fourth dimension, because we’ll be able to manifest whatever we need. And one of the things that people will manifest is perfect health. They’ll manifest beautiful bodies, whatever you know, you want in terms of your body to be, you manifest longevity, I don’t think it’s we choose to be there forever. But we will live much, much longer until at some point, we’re ready to release our physical body and move on. So and as a part of that, because we will have abundance at that point, we’ll have whatever we need. And, and I think there’s a progression that happens with this immaturity, we start out by really wanting to have the kind of things the way we want, you know, our bodies to be the way we want, the possessions we want, or whatever, but we more and more mature into or outgrow that to where we want qualities more. And the qualities will become more and more this manifestation of these inner divine qualities of having all these beautiful things that are part of our humanity, of peace, of purpose, of love, of consciousness of play, joy, inspiration, all of those things will become more and more important to us. Another shift that Mary talks about in from going from the third dimension to the fourth dimension, is that in the third dimension, where we’re based in the sense of lack, not enoughness, and needing to survive, we tend to get into competition, me versus you, in the fourth dimension, we’ll be starting to shift into this consciousness that she calls the consciousness of inclusion, where we’re more and more acting out of caring for everyone rather than just me, or just mine, whatever that is. So those are some of the hallmarks, the features of the fourth dimension that are coming to me right now. And the fourth dimension is generally considered a transitional dimension into the fifth dimension. And so in relative times, I think our time at the fourth dimension will be much shorter than the time that I believe many of us have been involved for lifetime after lifetime at the third dimension.

Rick Archer: You talking about the whole planet or just we as individual souls will kind of move on, go through to other planets, if necessary to find one that you know resonates with our dimension.

Mercedes Kirkel: I think the earth is also moving at least into the fourth dimension. That’s what I believe and that the Earth is alive is a living being and has her consciousness and that she also is ascending. And this is one of the things that is is supporting this at this time is that because the Earth is ascending, that is very much affecting us as humanity and helping us in our transition. And also, I think it’s even a much bigger process than just the earth, I actually believe that there is a universal process that’s happening that’s very much centered around what’s happening at the earth right now. But because of this, I think many, many beings from other places, other planets, other star systems are, first of all, very interested in what’s happening at the earth right now are supporting us from other places, and are actually also supporting us by incarnating. Here and becoming part of this transition, I think this is the many beings outside the Earth have more of a conscious awareness of what’s happening than we do. And they’re very excited about it and curious about it. Because on a global, not a global scale, a universal scale, or even beyond universal scale. We, as human beings represent a pretty low level of manifestation and consciousness, and we are changing at an incredibly fast rate. And I think this is something that has almost never been done on other places. And so because of that, I think many, many beings are fascinated by what’s happening right now that we are transforming soap.

Rick Archer: Do you feel like it’s, it’s something that may or may not actually letting the dog in here may or may not actually pan out that we could blow ourselves up or melt the ice caps and drown or whatever? Or do you feel like as intense or mountable, some of these problems appear? We’re going to surmount them,

Mercedes Kirkel: I absolutely believe we’re going to surmount them. And I don’t think we would even be allowed to self destruct at this point. And this is, again, one of the things this is a belief on my part. And I’ll just state it right out. That’s the case. But I strongly believe that what’s happening on Earth is is important beyond the earth, and that there are unit, there’s universal help for us right now. And there’s actually universal laws, that we’re not going to be allowed to destroy ourselves, even if we end up, you know, wanting to go that far. But I think it’s we’ve played it out long enough. And we’re at the tipping point now. And this tip, we might be at this tipping point for a while, you know, I had great hopes that I would wake up on December 22 2012. And we would have transitioned and there’s a fourth dimension.

Rick Archer: I was more cynical about that.

Mercedes Kirkel: I had serious reservations as to whether that would really happen, but diminish my hope that’s happened. But no, I think this is this could easily be a couple of 100 years we’re talking about, right? Again, I hope not. I hope it doesn’t take that long, but I think it could, but in ultimate time

Rick Archer: that’s nothin’.

Mercedes Kirkel: The blink of an eye.

Rick Archer: Yeah, snap of the fingers.

Mercedes Kirkel: Nothing. Exactly. I think. So it’s all relative, but we I think we are definitely in this process. And we’re gonna go through it. It’s a birth process, and we’re coming out the other end, I strongly believe,

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, it’s funny. On the one hand, I watched Eckhart Tolle be an interview on Oprah recently, and she said, she had given bunch of sentences that she wanted him to finish, and one was, I believe, and he his answer was in nothing in particular. And that the reason I thought of that is that you use the word belief a lot in the last few minutes. And on the one hand, I believe everything you’re saying, I don’t believe it. adamantly, because who knows, these are theories, but it resonates. And I think it might resonate with a lot of people who are listening. But on the other hand, you know, the word belief is often used to refer to things that can’t be experienced, and is sometimes taken as you know, that’s all you’re going to get is a belief, you’re not going to get the experience to substantiate it. And I feel that anything that is worth believing in, can be verified through experience, either immediately, if one has the capacity to do that, or over time, we’ll see these things pan out, and you don’t really have to believe in them in any kind of, you know, clinging way, if they happen, they happen and your belief will be vindicated.

Mercedes Kirkel: Yes. And this sense of having to verify it to experience is a very third dimensional point of view. Not that it’s bad or wrong, but it can be a limit. If you’re saying that’s the only way to accept information.

Rick Archer: Well, I’m not saying well, like you’re you’ve said a whole lot of stuff today that is pretty far out there by most People standards, but it’s your experience. And so that’s what I mean. And and, and I would suggest that anyone listening actually has the capacity to have the experiences that you’ve had, it may or may not be their role or their calling, it may not happen in this lifetime or whatever. But if one person can experience something, then at least theoretically, potentially anyone can experience it, if it’s a real phenomenon.

Mercedes Kirkel: And going back to this idea of these two parts of ourselves, which I feel comfortable, you know, referring to as the masculine and the feminine, the masculine being the transcendent, doesn’t have belief, that is that absolute space of emptiness, no need for belief in that realm, the feminine being the imminent manifestation in form. The lease is, I think, natural to us as one of our abilities or, you know, qualities that we bring into this realm. And so I think we all have both sides of those within us, we have the part of us that doesn’t need belief doesn’t hold on to belief, and, you know, belief, this isn’t a part of it. And then we have that other part that, where belief can be very active and play a part. And, you know, depending on how we relate to it can be very supportive.

Rick Archer: Yeah, when I say belief, I’m always just sort of, it’s like, who was it Thoreau, or somebody said, you know, go ahead and build your castles in the air, that’s where they belong. Now just put foundations under them. So there’s nothing wrong with belief. But one should always sort of aspire to, you know, I say experiential verification, but I don’t mean to sound kind of like, overly third dimensional when I say that, I just mean that, you know, living in a conceptual world isn’t going to do it for you, ultimately, there should be there should be an experiential, visceral kind of grounding, right?

Mercedes Kirkel: Yeah. Is this true in your life? Is this showing up as in alignment with what ever you experienced in your life? Right? Yeah. Because there

Rick Archer: are people who spend the whole their whole lifetime cling to beliefs that they haven’t really substantiated, you know, through through deeper experience. And most of us do, yeah. And that could and such people can become very radical are fundamentalist, and so on, when that’s their, their orientation.

Mercedes Kirkel: But even there can be all sorts of beliefs that, you know, we took on oftentimes, when we were very young, that, you know, there can be beliefs like, This world isn’t going to support me, right? Our beliefs like, you know, I can’t trust men, or whatever it is, you know, it doesn’t have to be that I ended up being an international terrorist, I just ended up being a normal, messed up person.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, I don’t think we’re going to take the time to talk about all 12 dimensions. Probably take us a couple more hours. But I guess, you know, needless to say, you know, you see life, you see, the universe is having, you know, In my Father’s house, there are many mansions you see it as having great sort of depth and profundity that doesn’t ordinarily meet the eye. And, you know, there’s a huge realm of possibilities that we have just begun to explore,

Mercedes Kirkel: right. And one of the reasons that I laid out my map and explained about the dimensions in the book was because it seemed to me that some of what Mary was bringing forth wouldn’t make sense if people didn’t have that contextualization. So it seemed necessary as a foundation and a container for what she was bringing forth, where she was talking about everything from Mother, Father God, and what that meant, and how that came to be down into, you know, talking about the higher dimensions and especially referencing the fourth and fifth dimension.

Rick Archer: Cool. Well, I have to finish the book. You know, Tom gets away with doing one of these every week and having some book to read. I usually don’t get to finish them, but I’m intrigued So, and hopefully listeners will be intrigued as well.

Mercedes Kirkel: Well, thank you so much. This has been just wonderful talking with you. I’ve really enjoyed it.

Rick Archer: Yeah, me too. A lot of fun. So we’ve we’ve already pretty much covered in the course of the interview, some of the things you have to offer and the things you do with people and so on. And you have a website, obviously Mercedes que IRKEL And I’ll be linking to that from And for for those listening to one of these interviews for the first time. is kind of the mothership of this interview show. There are over 160 interviews archived there now available both in video and an audio that you can either download the mp3 or you can link to a podcast where you can subscribe and download them all in iTunes. And there’s a discussion group there which gets very lively at times that last week before last, the interviewer had about 500 posts in the discussion group and they were quite substantive people were really sort of writing thoughtful things. So if that kind of thing appeals to you, feel free to participate. There’s a donation button, which I rely on to enable me to continue doing this and, you know, to take care of various expenses, which are explained on a page on the site there. And there’s also a email subscription tab. If you click that you can sign up to be notified by email each time a new interview is posted. So thank you, Mercedes. It’s really been delightful.

Mercedes Kirkel: Thank you. I’ve greatly enjoyed it. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And thanks to those who are have been listening or watching and we’ll see you next time.