Jeddah Mali Transcript

This rough draft generated by contains errors. If you would like to correct them, or join our team of volunteer proofreaders, please contact me.

Jeddah Mali Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week is Jetta Molly. And I have quite a lot of biographical material here about Jetta that I could read, but we’ll let her tell her own story, but I’ll just read a fairly short thing. Jetta is the executive director and founder of global paradigm Ltd, which delivers training programs for individuals and organizations seeking a completely new approach to the age old dilemma of how to make life business and society work effectively and harmoniously. Jettas unique approach identifies and maps the cohesive design that underlying underlying every system from an individual person to a solar system. It reveals the hidden patterns within every aspect of life that are responsible for how things turn out. Jetta provides an in depth examination into the nature and function of this design, and the mechanics that make it work. Our understanding of our understanding and use of these mechanics determine the extent to which we can produce consistent and reliable results. Jetta is sought after for her precise understanding of human beings, the contribution each person makes individually and collectively, and the impact this has on the world in which we live. Her work examines the link between our design as human beings and our hardwired predisposition towards peace, collaboration and contentment. And then Jetta is on the boards and, and members of all sorts of interesting international organizations. I won’t bother to read all those right now. But, you know, if you’ve been listening to these interviews, you realize that in my opinion, spirituality is not just some, you know, fulfilling subjective thing that has no relevance to the external world. In fact, it’s really the fuel which can and must change the external world if the external world that we live in are we in it to survive. And so my ears always perked up when I hear of someone who is deeply spiritual, but is applying that in a practical way to affect change in our world. And I first I’d heard your name Jetta, but I, I really tuned into for the first time when I listened to your conscious TV interview with Renata Mcnay, I often listen to those and I feel like those Ian and Renata are friends of mine, even though I’ve never met them. But I really, really sort of enjoyed your story, and the sort of the depth of experience that you have had since childhood. And even though it might be somewhat repetitive, and people can listen to that interview to get details that we might not cover here. Perhaps we could start with that. And then we’ll segue eventually into what you actually teach.

Jeddah Mali: Sure. Where would you like me to start? 1967?

Rick Archer: Oh, sure. Summer of Love.

Jeddah Mali: Exactly. I always think it was an auspicious time to arrive anyway.

Rick Archer: Was that when you were born? 67

Jeddah Mali: Yeah.

Rick Archer: Okay, that’s

Jeddah Mali: exactly,

Rick Archer: that’s when I first took LSD and had my, my eyes kind of opened up.

Jeddah Mali: Well, that’s when my eyes first opened up to because I was born in May 1967. So that’s when I arrived. And, you know, at the time, I didn’t know much else about my life, other than that’s what I’d been allotted. And I, I guess, you know, it’s hard, you know, looking back and thinking, Well, was it always this way? Or is it because it’s this way now? I assume it was that way then. But I did always feel slightly different. Different to watch. I don’t know, to the people around me, I had different. I had a different inner life to my outer life. And but on the surface of it, I mean, that was that was known to me, that was all apparent to me. But to anybody who was in my world, such as my mother, my father, my sister, my friends at school. You know, if they were asked to remember me, they would just say she was just an ordinary kid, you know, just growing up the same as the rest of us. So it looked very normal on the surface. All of the strange happenings happened to me specifically and personally on an internal basis in terms of my perception. In terms of the way I processed information. You know, as I said, with Renata, my relationship with time was often very different. I had I had strange, strange experiences with, you know, relating to the physical body relating to energy, and all of that kind of stuff. But it didn’t really happen on a consistent basis. And apart from a couple of times, it didn’t really happen at my will. It happened more sort of, just spontaneously,

Rick Archer: okay, and this didn’t happen in 67, obviously, because you’ve just been born. So maybe you were five or six years old or something.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, exactly. It started around four, four or five, six years old. And and then I think there was a little hiatus during teenage years, where I wasn’t, I was always a very happy kid.

Rick Archer: Before you go, can we have a couple of specifics? Like you said, your relationship to time, your strange energy experiences, and what were you actually experiencing as a young child? I would often find myself in a time reality that didn’t match the time reality of those around me. So I was operating on a much quicker time than those around me. So when this happened, when I was little, of course, I found this very frightening. And I tried to explain it to those around me. But you can imagine what a six year old sounds like saying everything is going fast. I can’t walk properly, because my legs are in one time reality, and my internal state is in another time reality. So even my physical body, and my time reality didn’t always match up. What exactly does it mean? Like you’re walking down the street, and it’s as if everything is zooming really fast past you or something and you’re in slow motion, or vice versa.

Jeddah Mali: It felt as if my internal state was in a much, much faster time reality than everything else, including my physical body. So my physical body would feel like it was going at a snail’s pace. And I could see my legs moving. And I knew that they were moving, as legs are supposed to move when they walk. But the way I was processing it was way, way, way faster. And so there was a disconnect, and it made me feel I had no way of rationally processing these experiences. It just made me feel a little afraid, a little odd. And when I tried to convey them to those around me, I could see that it just caused alarm, and got me trotted off down the doctors for a brain review.

Rick Archer: You know what it sounds like? To me, it sounds like you were sort of you had one foot in another dimension, as if

Jeddah Mali: I think that’s what was happening.

Rick Archer: And time functions differently and other dimensions, you know, and so you hadn’t quite integrated, the several dimensions in which you were living. Yes, yes, I think that’s exactly what is what was happening. But of course, I had no language for that I had no reference point for that at the time. I also had some very fun, interesting experiences with experimenting with my energy and my energy body and my size relationship to objects around me. And I would experiment with that very freely. And it was a kind of playful thing. But again, you know, it’s funny, because I never said, it never occurred to me to say to a friend, Oh, can you do that too? Or, let’s try this. It was just stuff that I would do by myself, but it was in my room and just do quietly. And never, I never shared that with anyone. So like, for instance, regarding size, I mean, there are actually siddhi cities in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. called, but I think it’s aneema and MA Hema or something becoming tiny and huge. And I don’t know if the yogi’s actual body becomes tiny and huge, but perhaps some kind of subtle body or something.

Jeddah Mali: Yes, exactly.

Rick Archer:  So you might find yourself like bigger than your house or something like that.

Jeddah Mali: Yes.

Rick Archer:  Right?

Jeddah Mali: Yes. Yeah. So I could play with that. And that I could do at will, I would play with that sense of expanding or contracting, or being able to move myself across a room. My and again, I’m almost certain my physical body didn’t move. But I was able to be able to get my eyes right up against the far wall and then come back again. I was able to play with that sense of distance as well. So I was able to move at will around the room and, and within my physical form. But you know, it’s interesting how natural that feels to a child. It, it never occurred to me to double check with anyone else whether they had it too. And it never occurred to me not to do it. And I don’t even know how it occurred to me to do it. It just just one day I started to happen. And I don’t know if there’s fun to play with it.

Rick Archer: I remember when I was a kid, I had an argument, my mother that I was sure that when I was younger, I had been able to fly. I said, Mom, I used to fly. I used to fly around the house. I’d fly up and down stairs and she said, No, you didn’t you must have been dreaming.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, well, I don’t remember ever flying. Although I actually still to this day, I have so many flying dreams, which are very cool. But I don’t remember flying. But I do remember being able to have this very elastic sense of, of presence and movement. And then it was a playful thing. It was a malleable thing. The one thing that was clear to me, which was an eye opener, was that it? It followed my direction. So that when I intended something, it happened. And it happened immediately without any question. And so I got to see the power of intention through that. And the and its effect on energy. And I

Rick Archer: You mean, the subtle stuff happened by intention of

Jeddah Mali: Exactly,

Rick Archer: yeah,

Jeddah Mali: yeah. Yeah. It mean, it just started to happen of its own accord. But then the direction of movement, and whatever I asked to happen would happen. So it responded very readily.

Rick Archer: And how do you understand that now from an adult perspective?

Jeddah Mali: I understand it from the point of view that our thoughts are electrical impulses, which imprint energy, and the energy then is duty bound to follow suit. So

Rick Archer: Do you think this is much more common among children than we realize?

Jeddah Mali: I don’t know. I mean, I have children, they’ve sometimes related unusual things to me. But I don’t know, maybe it happens to them. And they don’t share it with me. I don’t know. But I didn’t get the sense that anyone else in my childhood was experiencing it. But then I could be wrong.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, I’ve what I’ve seen in interviewing a lot of people is that people who blossom spiritually later in life, very often have unusual childhoods. They’ve got a lot going on when they were kids. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes they completely forget it during their teenage years, and sometimes not so much. But there’s usually some, they come into this life already. poppin, you know?

Jeddah Mali: I think I was a bit of a late bloomer in that sense. And it’s interesting that you say that during their teenage years, they forget it, because that’s what happened to me.

Rick Archer: We all go crazy in our teenage years.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well, my family, my family life wasn’t exactly a bowl of cherries. And so I had a lot of material that I was, you know, dealing with and sad about and having to process and that takes a lot of your focus and your energy. Yeah, so I didn’t have that sort of, like a carefree. A Pollyanna existence.

Rick Archer: No, me neither. Okay, so you had this childhood in which lots of interesting stuff was going on? And I guess, did you kind of tell people about it, and then you got strange reactions. And so you kind of learn to keep your mouth shut.

Jeddah Mali: The only person I shared anything with was my mother. And she’s probably at the opposite end of the spectrum of being able to process that information. And so of course, you know, she followed what avenues she thought were correct. And

Rick Archer: Took you to the doctor.

Jeddah Mali:  Yeah, to get checked out. And the doctor said, she probably had a temperature she probably and when she gets a temperature, she becomes delusional. So that that was the explanation that was given to her and she didn’t think any more of that, but I could see that it was completely incomprehensible to her. And that I did take note of that is no point in trying to explain it to her because she just doesn’t get it. And she would be sort of borderline concern slash irritated. It’s not a great framework to give him more information.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay, so then you got into your teenage years and anything unusual there?

Jeddah Mali: No, I don’t think so. I think at that stage, I started to realize that that I had I didn’t even know how to put it up. There My inner life and my outer life were two separate realms. And, you know, I’m, I’m going to be 47 next week, and I’m still in the process of, you know, trying to match them up, make them fit. So, but that’s when at first, I first became aware of the fact that, you know, my, my inner life or the desires and an imagination I had, wasn’t necessarily getting translated around me. And so I suppose there was a little bit of a, an existential malaise, or there was, there was a disconnect that I noticed that cause me to want to know more. So that’s really when the, the source of all my questioning started,

Rick Archer: That raises an interesting question, you know, I think whether people have a spiritual orientation or a mundane one, they all kind of realize that their inner and outer lives are, there’s a disconnect, and what I mean, it’s, the inner life is so much more malleable than the outer life. It’s I mean, you know, on a mundane level, it’s easy to imagine winning a million dollars or earning a million dollars, but it’s a lot harder to make that happen in the material realm. So, you know, I think it’s probably a universal phenomenon.

Jeddah Mali: I would say so. And, you know, I speak to a lot of people now, who have never had that in a life acknowledged or met. And they find tremendous comfort and relief in that when it finally comes around, or they finally meet someone who can understand that and speak to them on that level. And I didn’t have anyone, you know, I had nobody, I made my own search, you know, I took myself off at 17 to the local church, and, you know, harangue, viveka until he agreed to baptize me, you know, at 17 I could stick my own hand in the font, you know. And, and I cobbled together my own godparents, you know, and, you know, my, my parents were so slightly bemused and bewildered by this. And I didn’t stay with Christianity very long, but it was just showed you that I was looking for something I was looking for some kind of answers to, you know, the intangible, and wasn’t finding it in my school life, my home life. So I look for it elsewhere.

Rick Archer: So what did you move on to after Christianity?

Jeddah Mali: Well, when I was 21, I think 2021 I was pretty young. I went to Asia, which I thought was going to be a year long trip. And very quickly found myself staying in monasteries. And so very quickly found Buddhism. I actually know I went first to India. And when I was in India, I studied, you know, Hindu philosophy, and I was already a yoga practitioner. So did a lot of advanced yoga, and then moved on to Buddhism and sort of felt that I had found my, my second home really within Buddhism.

Rick Archer: Is that really picked up the name Jeddah Mali?

Jeddah Mali: No, actually, I would my Jetta was given to me by my parents.

Rick Archer: Okay. It sounds like the spiritual names. You know,

Jeddah Mali: I know, funnily enough, you know, because both my parents are atheists. So actually, my story my mom tells my dad’s passed away, so he can’t even corroborate it. But my mom says that she was trying to call me Jennifer, and my dad didn’t like it. And so she suggested Jenna, and he heard Jeddah and that’s how I got my name, but how they came up with that spelling? I don’t know, because it’s the same spelling as the capital of Saudi Arabia.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Jeddah Mali: So yeah. So but when I went to Israel, they said, you know, a Jeddah is a strong spiritual woman. So I thought, way to go  dad was right on the money.

Rick Archer: Sounds a little bit like Jedi too, you know.

Jeddah Mali: I know. I’m proud of that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So what were some of your experiences and realizations over in India, with studying with Buddhists?

Jeddah Mali: Um, well, it had started. It started with the Hindu philosophy and you know, doing a lot of yoga and meditating twice a day and staying in ashrams. And then I very quickly found that with a little bit of discipline and structure and guidance, my inner life just opened up in it just literally opened up like a box and became very accessible to me very quickly. And I also knew from the guidance that was being given to other students in the class that my experiences were surpassing that and we’re sort of in another realm another league specifics. I could, I could travel at will, into disembodied states traveling, no didn’t go anywhere else, but just being able to leave the body behind and enter into, you know, a sense of vastness enter into Samadhi, sort of instant Samadhi by could perceive, see and hear, not incarnate entities, and had, you know, crystal clear vision of them and was able to hear their guidance, I was able to enter into very, very deep and beautiful states of light and bliss. And the teachers didn’t quite know what to do with me. And that was the same with Buddhism, too. There was a bit like, oh, well, you know, that’s not quite supposed to happen just yet. So I wasn’t quite sure how I did it. And the funny thing was, you know, to this day, I’m still able to do that. But funnily enough, it hasn’t shortened. Well, who’s to say, you know, because I’ve only got the life I’ve got, but it hasn’t taken away the lessons of having to integrate that into the physical life and make that accessible in my daily life. And so that’s why that’s such a specific part of My Teachings, now, being able to integrate it, because there’s one thing to be able to access it, you know, we all want to be able to just sort of jump on this magic carpet, click our fingers and be in some other state. But really, there’s no point to that, unless you can utilize the wisdom and the energy that you’re accessing, and make it available through your physical body here on Earth, which is the whole purpose of evolution.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s a very common theme. Actually, in many people. I talk to both people interviewing people, other people I’ve talked to is, you know, they can, it’s one thing to have these marvelous experiences. It’s another thing to live it in daily life and to have some kind of integration or stability of it amidst the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, well, I think I’ve, I think I’ve got through my life, so far, just some kind of like, massive fluke, because it hasn’t all been a process of steady conscious intent. So I relate to the slings and arrows.

Rick Archer: But you know, that you experience something which we might call some supportive nature, but you experienced that to a high degree, which would be, you know, how you mentioned these disincarnate beings that you would see and communicate with? I don’t know whether they would be involved in this, but don’t you feel that, you know, as a result of this debt, the sort of vertical dimension of your life, things kind of work out on the horizontal dimension in what might seem to be almost miraculous ways? Sometimes it’s, it’s sort of like the, the gods are on your side, so to speak, you know?

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well, I have, I have been really, really blessed with unusual circumstances, and coincidences, and all the things that you mentioned. And because it’s happened, pretty consistently, since I was a very young adult, I’ve become used to that in a way. And, you know, sometimes I stop and think my goodness, if I actually shared my experiences, I sort of kept that privacy around what I experience throughout my whole life, I don’t need to share it with those I work with. But sometimes, I think my goodness, it would be be quite a read, if I were to share, you know, some of the strange things that had happened in the and the wonderful systems I’ve had all along. And I think there’s also because I didn’t have you know, until I went to Asia, and I Yes, I had teachers and, and, you know, there was a, I was immersed in the philosophy of it, but that’s not the same as feeling that I belonged there. So because I never had a sort of family or community where I really felt I belonged. It felt like home to me. The masters that looked after me became like my family and became my, my guidance.

Rick Archer: Yeah, just one more little bit on this theme. There’s a song which called Born Under a Bad Sign I think Cream performed. And one line is you know, if if it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have no luck at all. Well, you know, but I don’t believe in luck. I, you know, there’s some people who, you know, they do seem to have a cloud over their heads, and it’s always raining. And other people seem to live a charmed life and everything goes really well. And it might be interesting maybe later in the conversation to investigate that phenomenon. And you know, you there’s a chapter in one of your recordings, called unseen helpers might be interesting to know, analyze or discuss why it is that some people seem to get a great deal of support and you know, aid in fulfillment of their desires, and other people seem to be thwarted at every every turn. Let’s come back to that, because I want to keep talking about your story. But So who are some of these? I don’t suppose any of these teachers you studied with would be anyone, anyone? Any one listening would have heard of or are?

Jeddah Mali: Yes, absolutely. They are.

Rick Archer: Okay, like whom?

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well,

Rick Archer: Dalai Lama, didn’t you spend some time with him?

Jeddah Mali: I did spend some time with the Dalai Lama. Yes, I took my bodhisattva vow with the Dalai Lama. very rashly, I might add, he gave us about five opportunities. He said, You know, this is this is the sort of karmically binding contract, which is going to apply to every single life from here on in. And of course, you know, you’re young, and you’re very idealistic. And you say, Yes, of course, I will do that, of course, I will devote the rest of my existence. And then

Rick Archer: Not only this life, but you’ve just, you’ve taken a vow to just come back again and again to help as much as you can.

Jeddah Mali: Again and again ’till the job is done,

Rick Archer: cool.

Jeddah Mali:  And he said, you know, about five times, you know, this is really a binding thing that you can’t get out of it. And if you try to, you know, or attract unhelpful forces in your life, so, you know, best not take it at all, then, you know, take it rationally. And I was kind of willful little thing in those days. And I think I just sort of plowed ahead and knowing how to do this. And so I, of course, to remember that, you know, better get better get good with human life and physical life, because I’m going to see a lot of it.

Rick Archer: And so, what, what, how long were you over there?

Jeddah Mali: I ended up spending about 10 years and all in Asia, you know, it was coming and going. But there was about 10 years of my life where I was, you know, spending a lot of time there. And studying and, you know, doing a lot of years

Rick Archer: Early 20’s through early 30s.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And, you know, give us some, you know, impression of it, I mean, you deep some oddities, and wonderful experiences, and seeing angels and so on, are you having all these experiences, anything else noteworthy, although those things are obviously pretty profound.

Jeddah Mali: I learned that no, one specific philosophy or discipline was going to work for me. And all the time that I was learning the mantras and following the steps and trying to be, you know, a good Buddhist, I took my vows, you know, I sort of was trudging along that path, it felt like it wasn’t going to meet me on the level that I wanted to meet the existence. And so within me, I felt very strongly that I wanted, you know, my internal clarion call was, I don’t want to meet any intermediaries, I want to just deal directly with God

Rick Archer: Was there in the Buddhist teaching a lot of emphasis on intermediaries, both both hum and somehow, you know,

Jeddah Mali: Not so much in there. But, you know, with everything with the Hindu philosophy, you know, with. With Buddhism, also, there’s no there’s not a lot of emphasis, but there is a lot of emphasis on ritual.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Jeddah Mali: And, and protocol and vows and all of this kind of stuff. And I just felt that I would be doing that for, you know, Buddha says it takes six countless great eons to get enlightened, which to me seemed like an awful long time, especially if I was going to be going back in human form all that time. So it just it felt it felt too cluttered. The path felt too cluttered and it felt wasn’t clean enough and direct enough. So that’s when I started to move away from that and look for something much more direct, much cleaner, much more accessible, and have a direct relationship to existence without having to chant a Mantra. I wanted my Consciousness to perceive, in those days what I call God directly now I call it existence or awareness.

Rick Archer: So what did you find that was more direct?

Jeddah Mali: It was around that time, my early 30s, that I started to be based on some of the experiences I’d had earlier. And in childhood, I started to realize that my consciousness was the tool which allowed me to interact with the sort of faculty woven into all of us, that allow me to interact directly with the energy of existence, and that the energy of existence was not too big and grand to meet anyone on that level that you could have direct access, direct experience. And then that was, you know, that there were a few sort of properties of that experience, which I came to know as expansion, light and harmony, you know, the threes are basic properties of existence. And that consciousness was required, in order to step into that in order to turn that from a living fact into a living experience, you needed to let consciousness, drink it in and or perceive it directly. So that’s what started to arise within me that knowingness. And that I passed on, you know, to those I was teaching and working with.

Rick Archer: So this is something you pretty much discovered on your own, there wasn’t any teacher who showed you this, or taught you this,

Jeddah Mali: There was nothing. Obviously, I was still receiving guidance from all the unseen helpers. And I can attest that they’re very patient.

Rick Archer: They’ve got all the time in the world.

Jeddah Mali: Exactly. And I’ve used up quite a lot of it. So, so I just spent the last, you know, 15 years really honing that and, and trying to describe it and simplify it to because because of my experience with Christianity, and Hinduism, and Buddhism, there just seemed it just seems so unnecessarily busy, the landscape was so busy and so complicated, and didn’t really seemed stacked in favor of success, you know, the people going through that were either had already assumed that they were sinners, and were, you know, going to be forever overlooked by existence, or some of them assumed, you know, that it’s a really, really, really long trudge, you have to be really earnest and pious and didn’t see much fun in that. And at all, or the joy of life, the beauty of life didn’t seem to be spoken about or represented, you know, got this tiny little mansion in, you know, in the new, the Indian esoteric tradition, but you know, apart from that, you know, it didn’t get much of a mention. So I felt that, I want to tell other people about it, I wanted to put it into a language that was in everyday language, so wasn’t in Sanskrit wasn’t in Pali canon, was in everyday English in this case, and that people could understand it and relate to it, but more importantly, experience it for themselves. So they didn’t need to rely on a whole, you know, a whole host of gurus and teachers, even though that assistance is given.

Rick Archer: I sort of had the feeling it’s just my own personal theory that, that reason for a lot of the falter on the fanciness, and ceremonies and rituals, and then all the stuff that gets layered on in all these traditions is that people are lacking the direct simple experience, they don’t have access to it, and you got to keep them entertained. You know, and even the, you know, the teachers, the priests, the gurus, in some cases, perhaps don’t have as clear and experience of that essential reality as they might. And so they buy right into it also and are happy to in oblige, and, you know, engage and all this fancy red shoes and pointy hats and all the other stuff that happens in, in religion.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well, I think certainly, my experience of Christianity and Hinduism was like that, you know, that you you felt you’ve been studying yoga with a teacher for three, four months and, you know, feeling very reverent and then you find out he’s sleeping with one of his students, you know, which is often the case with these Indian teachers that are easily distracted. And I mean, of course, isn’t, isn’t a rule, it’s an exception to the rule.

Rick Archer: I don’t know, I think it’s the other way around.

Jeddah Mali: But I do come across it quite often. I’m a spiritual with the spiritual Christian movement. They’re very well meaning but I sometimes questioned how deeply they were experiencing things for themselves. Whereas with Buddhism, I had a lot more respect for the teachers there. Because they did seem to have you know, the practice seemed to feature largely and I did meet some incredible teachers are John Buddha dasa was the head of the Tera Vaada movements are the equivalent of the Dalai Lama. And the Dalai Lama himself and many other Lama Zopa Rinpoche, many wonderful reincarnated lamas. But still, it was too. Too late and with with rules and regulations and conditions, really, and and I don’t feel that existence actually places those conditions on us, you know, they, as you say, have built up over the years in order to gently guide the masses, who I think in the beginning, as it was explained to me, I don’t know if it’s the case, it was done that way. Because people didn’t have the conscious ability to grasp the intangible directly. And so they had to do it through the intermediary of story and myth and legend and ritual. So those sort of people got it almost accidentally. But for me, that just wasn’t going to work.

Rick Archer: No. And, you know, to each his own, I don’t think it would be fair of us to dismiss all that. Right. You know, like, for instance, in the, in the Indian tradition, you have the Puranas. And the horses, you have all these huge books of stories, and, you know, millions and millions of people derive a lot of inspiration and upliftment from that. And for them something, you know, as direct as what you’re alluding to, would probably seem ungraspable and abstract, and they will, they would just not be able to go there, at this day at that particular stage of their development,

Jeddah Mali: in many cases, is also seen as audacious.

Rick Archer: It’s like, Who are you to think you can?

Jeddah Mali: Exactly

Rick Archer: Yeah, OK.

Jeddah Mali: And so and I think that was encouraged by certain teachers throughout the centuries, because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to put themselves out of a job. But the particularly I see this in the Catholic Church that

Rick Archer: Yeah, you need an intermediary.

Jeddah Mali: You need an intermediary that’s been so called a designated by God, and that you’re not actually loud, have your own thoughts and ideas about God. So, you know, that I find doesn’t match up with any experience of existence that I’ve ever had?

Rick Archer: Yeah, I would definitely say that you’re beyond the intermediary stage, although perhaps there might still be some intermediaries who would serve as a catalyst for you and be able to, you know, fill a few missing pieces. But yeah, you’re kind of on your own horse there. Now, if we were to go back and you know, sit in the presence of Jesus or Buddha or something, we would, we would, I’m sure, fine. There wasn’t a lot of, you know, frills and ceremony, it was pretty plain vanilla straightforward teaching. And I think we would also find, at least in the case of Buddha, from what I’ve heard, that a lot of people were actually getting enlightened in his presence reach, attaining Nirvana, or whatever we want to call it. So, you know, obviously, that doesn’t seem to happen as much in these institutionalized settings as it used to, or was that did you experience otherwise?

Jeddah Mali: I didn’t experience otherwise. But I have had direct experiences with both Jesus and Buddha. So I can attest to the fact that their presence is quickening to one’s energy field so that their light and their presence has a quickening effect on your energy field. So that they can integrate levels of light and understanding that we can reach on our own but it might take a little longer to reach. However, if it were just their presence, then everyone who’d been in the presence of Jesus or Buddha or the other great Masters would have walked away with that intact but they didn’t because the one thing they can’t do is override your freewill. And it’s your freewill that governs where you place your Consciousness.

Rick Archer: Yeah, so you have to have a certain receptivity. Yeah, pearls before swine and all that. Yeah. Okay, so you just dropped a bomb you said you’ve you’ve been in the presence of Jesus and Buddha or something along that nature, you got to elaborate on that?

Jeddah Mali: Well, I don’t use fortune or design, but or fortunate design. But I’ve I’ve always been able to access and speak with pretty much anybody who’s ever existed. And obviously those that I’m drawn to are beings such as Jesus and Buddha are also have spent a lot of time with Mother Mary. And when you when you asked me Are any of the teachers that I’ve worked with? Are they known to other people? And I said, Oh, yes. Because they all are pretty much known. So. And even though personally, Christianity doesn’t, doesn’t float my boat at all. My lineage, my soul lineage is very much around what is historically known as you know, Christian characters. So, St. John, the beloved Peter, the rock, Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene, and all basically all of the disciples. So, yeah,

Rick Archer: I don’t think Christianity would float Jesus’s boat these these days, either. In fact, I read an article recently saying, If Jesus were to come back now, would we actually recognize him? You know? Or if he were to come to your church, you know, would he be thrown out or something? They examined points like that, and the conclusion was probably Yeah, you know, you he would be thrown out. So where do these beings reside? And what do they do wherever they reside? Are they just sort of like, you know, floating on clouds? I mean, what how do they spend their time so to speak? If that’s not a dumb question?

Jeddah Mali: Well, it doesn’t quite work like that.

Rick Archer: I’m sure it doesn’t.

Jeddah Mali: It’s hard to put it into language. But if you imagine, obviously, you know, and your listeners probably aware that, you know, the physical Earth reality is one particular vibration, one particular dimension, there are two below this, which the Christian church have historically called the hell realms. There are several beyond this point to so in quicker states of vibration than our earth plane. And so as they leave the earth plane, they ascend, hence, the term Ascended Master, into realms beyond the earth. And they reside in that form in those realms. And so characters like Jesus and Buddha are able to traverse all of the realms simultaneously, you know, their wisdom is encapsulated. And even though they don’t, they can take on that form, particularly with Jesus seeing him in his Jesus form. But, uh, Jesus is a bit of an anomaly, though, because he was Christed. And so his soul, his path, his story, is, is another whole interview session, the esoteric side of what happened during his life, and the legacy that he left in other dimensions, and in this dimension is, is, I think, you know, is quite complex and beyond the average person, including myself. So, so Buddha does all these great masters, they do still, they can still present themselves to you in that form. But I don’t necessarily need them to show up in a sort of a human defined form for me to be able to access them. So I access their, their conscious beingness rather than their form. And that is available and and much more easy than people think, available to everybody.

Rick Archer: So are they, if you don’t mind my pursuing this because it really arouses my curiosity. Are they primarily occupied with human wellbeing and concerns? I mean, they’re, you know, millions and Christians, millions of Buddhists in the world, all sort of praying to Jesus praying to Buddha or, you know, appealing to him in some way. Are they sitting on some level where they’re actually reciprocating or interacting or acknowledging those those prayers and those entreaties and helping to facilitate the growth or the Enlightenment of the individuals who turn their attention to them.

Jeddah Mali: They can, but you said, are they primarily involved with human evolution, I would say they are solely involved with the conscious evolution of existence. So, yeah, as a whole. And there are certain masters such as the brotherhood of light, which are overseeing the evolution of consciousness of the planet. But it’s funny, you know, you you pray to Jesus, you get a response, you pray to Buddha, you get a response you do. But actually, they look after each other’s people, too. So, you know, Buddha doesn’t just take care of Buddhists, and, and Jesus doesn’t just take care of Christians, there’s no, no distinction in those realms as such at all, if you’re not read or assessed, or defined by your, your languaging, or even your faith, you are read and assessed and assisted according to the quality and volume of your the light in your field, you know, so it’s an absolute level playing field, you know, all beings are, are seen and assessed the same way.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, you might be a Bushmen in Africa, you know, with a completely different esoteric worldview than any Christian or Buddhist and yet those very entities we’ve just been discussing might be helping you in some way.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, you know, one part of your question was, are they giving assistance? Yes, they are giving assistance. But they’re, they don’t targeted only to their people, but they are absolutely 100% involved, their whole life is given over into this, you know, I mean, we are all in service. We, I mean, there’s, there’s no other way to spend your existence and no other way to spend your time. There’s nothing to do other than be in service, or just get on with it. Yeah,

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, on a very mundane level, people who are concerned with the betterment of the world, you know, can very often feel feel hopeless and frustrated. I mean, the multinational corporations seem to have so much power, nothing seems to be getting done to really reverse global warming. And, you know, and money is completely controlling the politicians, and all this stuff seems so, so entrenched and so difficult to budge, and from the human, to human perspective, and I kind of always feel like, well, yeah, but the subtle is more powerful. And if the subtle is getting enlivened, then somehow rather, it’ll save the day. And that, you know, conscious intelligent forces much more powerful than global corporations, will will somehow it almost seems like, you know, we’re expecting, you know, something that like, the Christians who feel like the Second Coming is going to come and save them. It’s it almost sounds really pie in the sky like that. But I’m talking about us solar mechanics, which I’m sure you appreciate,

Jeddah Mali: And agree with, actually. From the perspective of the other dimensions, you know, even the next dimension, the fourth dimension, you know, which is where human beings generally pass over to, so what we would term heaven, is really just, you know, the fourth dimension. But then, of course, the fifth sixth seventh dimension is where these elevated teachers and ascended masters are residing,

Rick Archer: is that as far as it goes seven?

Jeddah Mali: Yes, they are considered to be three realms beyond that, but you know, at that point when brain short circuits and cannot process information, me included, so,

Rick Archer: I mean, I imagine we could spend hours mapping it all out and getting into the fine details of all these different levels and what’s happening on them and all that and probably, you know, that’s another time and place.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, it ends up being Mind Candy, though, because you listen to all that and you go, Oh, that sounds cool. But actually, none of that information makes a jot of difference to our daily lives.

Rick Archer: Good point.

Jeddah Mali: So that I just tend to just say, you know, yes, it exists. Yes, it’s there. But let’s not worry about it. Let’s just worry about how we can be better people on this planet at this time in our lives. Yeah. So from from other realms, we look at the Earth and we see that what’s happening meaning here is not the result, as we’ve been told of sin or an inherent flaw, there’s really just a case of misunderstanding, we’ve miss understood our design, the overall design of existence. And out of that misunderstanding, we inadvertently misuse. So our thoughts, our speech, our actions, all of the assumptions that we make, are based on a tiny bit of information, you know, based on what the five senses can see, and behold, and, you know, work with, and yet that piece of information is one puzzle piece in this huge picture that we’re missing. So when all of our conclusions are based on this one piece, we are naturally, you know, going to try and preserve this one piece, and that really is life on Earth, you know, is one piece of a much bigger puzzle. What’s happening now is that all of these sort of areas of life that you’ve mentioned, you know, sort of the money machine and how the corporations are tapped into that what’s happening to the ecology of our planet. And the disaffection and alienation that people are feeling and the social unrest. This is because the resident and resonant frequency of the planet is being sort of upgraded and recalibrated by those larger, subtler movements in evolution. And, and as they move into the physical structure, the emotional structure and the mental structure of the planet, they’re starting to cause a little, you know, quickening in the vibration, and that’s why we’re starting to see unrest in all of those areas, as you know, the structures give way, because they can’t maintain themselves, they can’t maintain that small perception, that small illusion in the face of those bigger energy. So that is happening. However, because there’s no time outside of the you know, the space time continuum, then there isn’t the same sort of urgency or hurry that, you know, we sometimes assume there is here. And and I think a lot of people, not the proponents of change. So we’ll let’s just do away with corporations, let’s just do away with all of this, you know, as if you know, but they still want to go to the cash point on Monday morning, they know the ATM and they still want their bank to function, they still want to buy stuff, they still want to go on holiday, they still want to eat. So we can’t do away with it. But we can, you know, gently and lovingly upgrade it. And so that’s where I’ve chosen to place my efforts to help to bring an understanding of the big picture with all the puzzle pieces in place and say, Yes, we’re here life on Earth in this small compartment. But we are part of a much, much bigger picture. And if we run our life on Earth, our our, you know, individual mental processing our emotional life, our physical life, as well as our societal structures and provision. If we run them with the bigger picture in mind, we will naturally be in alignment will naturally be a good fit, so that the actions we take will naturally bring benefit bring harmony. The only reason we have so much disharmony with so much discord is because we are persisting and insisting on following this very, very narrow worldview existence view, that just simply isn’t correct.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, there’s a lot of considerations there. I mean, well, I guess one is, which is the cart, which is the horse.

Jeddah Mali: The horse is the one with four legs.

Rick Archer: And the cart’s the one with two wheels. But is the is the kind of the vibration of the planet rising because people are engaging in spiritual practice, or are people engaging in spiritual practice? Because the vibration of the planet is rising? And if so, what is raising the vibration? Is it these higher beings we’ve talked about? Is it some kind of cosmic rays from the center of the galaxy? I mean, I’ve heard I’ve heard all kinds of theories of precession of the equinoxes and all that stuff. So you know, what are the mechanics? And I hope this isn’t a Mind Candy question. Because, you know, like, you’re saying, if people just had a bigger picture and weren’t so myopic in their in their vision, we would run things differently. So even on an intellectual level, it’s I think, good to understand that there are these higher dimensions and much more Are subtler forces in play than our mundane perception would have us believe. And then of course, we need to substantiate that with direct experience, it can’t just remain an intellectual concept. But at least if we have some kind of idea of the the roadmap or what’s actually going on, it gives us a start.

Jeddah Mali: That’s right. And so I’ve tried to bring it back into what a so called individual human being can understand about their own experience. So bring it back and say, Your being is a microcosm of this macrocosm. Your being is the laboratory for you to make experiments with what life is and to understand the design, the nature and the function of life, and to test it out, that’s what our experiences, you know, testing it out, and put what you come to understand through your experience, into practice, into the wider world around you. The good news is when we base our thoughts and speech and actions on true design, then as I said, we automatically bring benefit, we automatically create harmony, it’s just, it’s just a given. So, I’m not advocating some utopian ideal of all, we all just need to meditate, we all just need to be nice to one another, I understand there’s a there’s a bigger evolution of consciousness happening, that will take time to filter through and integrate, but in answer to your question is both is happening, you know, we are starting to access those bandwidths as human beings much more in these times than ever before, other than, you know, pre history, and that is precipitating even greater help from the other dimensions, but they are also turning up the heat and our roasting pan, because you know, human beings have been given so many chances to come willingly to the next stage of their evolution. And those elements, which we all see and grieve for which are holding on and seem to be resisting. Universe, what brings universal benefit to mankind? We are we are receiving, you know, an intensified vibration frequency from from other dimensions now, to help to facilitate that shift. So both both are happening.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I was speaking to someone a couple of weeks ago, maybe was just last week, and she was saying, Well, you know, the problems are so bad these days, it’s never been so dire. And I think there’s, on the one hand, there may be some truth in that, because we’ve really reached the first time in human history in which our species could extinguish itself on the planet. But on the other hand, I mean, 500 years ago, you would have been burned at the stake for saying what you’re saying right now. And, you know, that kind of thing was was typical weekend entertainment. So it was a pretty primitive society. And there are actually pockets of that primitive mentality still on the planet in Afghanistan and places like that. But it does seem that, you know, we live despite all of our problems, it does seem we live in a more enlightened world. But,

Jeddah Mali: well, having said that, you know, I still, you know, there are still people out there willing to burn me at the stake. For what I say, particularly the sectors I’ve chosen to work in, you know, with business, those who are, have a meditation practice and just want to understand more about existence on on their own personal level, they seem most open to the information. However, one individual at a time, there’s a limit to how much change we can bring about. So that’s why I’ve sort of put myself forward to work with bigger business to work with corporations to work with government, or to work with, you know, global organizations to help seed this understanding on a more systemic level. That there are

Rick Archer: When you’re working with those institutions do you dumb it down? Or do you actually talk about the kind of stuff we’re talking about here?

Jeddah Mali: I don’t dumb it down. But I use I’m very specific with my language. So I use everyday language I use everyday examples, and I appeal to what is universal and the soul which is the desire to live well. How to be safe to feel good, you know, all of the things that we share, and everybody can relate to that whether they’re the CEO of a corporation, you know or housewife in Idaho. So there’s there’s a universal appeal to that what they’re willing to do in order to bring that about varies enormously. But I am actually encouraged by some, there are some corporations now that are really willing to put their their companies in the service of mankind and the surface of our planet. And that takes a lot of courage, but they’re just starting to appear now. So there’s, there is hope on the horizon. For those people who feel it’s all doom and gloom.

Rick Archer: What kind of corporations would those be?

Jeddah Mali: Well, you know, there’s the B, corporations have started, which again, have started around in California, the movement of Conscious Capitalism has started gaining California and is spreading is now here in the UK, and is gathering steam. There are individual companies that have changed careers, such as Unilever, that have changed their practices to make them much more, not just holistic, not just green, because we’ve had both of those waves. But really starting to look at the fundamental purpose of business, and seeing that it’s not just, you know, the bottom line profit, but that the purpose of business is to serve the planet that it taught. And once once they make that transition, they’re finding sort of a new impetus. And, yeah, a new a new purpose, new reason for being in business.

Rick Archer: Seems to me that there are a number of corporations, such as, for instance, tobacco, or big oil, which really wouldn’t have much of a place, if any, in what we might call an enlightened society and a society where this transition that we’re beginning to see the inklings of had come full, had run its course to complete development. And there are others, which would have to be radically transformed, even the whole agriculture industry is doing most of what it does, is unsustainable, and, you know, probably not going to exist 70 years from now, if if that’s a reasonable timeline for when this whole transition is going to occur. So what would you say if you were invited to say speak to a tobacco company, I mean, knowing in the back of your mind that what’s actually going on is going to put them out of existence.

Jeddah Mali: My sense, is that no matter how things look on the surface, that we as human beings are sort of very addicted to how things look on the surface. So no matter how things look on the surface, within each and every company, there is sort of buried light. And you just have to do your best, you know, through compassionate action, and understanding to reach that light. If through their own free will they choose not to follow that, you know, that call that everyone that everyone contains, but not everyone follows. If they choose not to follow it collectively, then then there, you know, obsolescence is going to be a natural outcome. But there are examples of companies that look as if they’re, you know, part of the traditional rape and pillage of our planet, that have started to make small steps towards turning things around. So I think we, in all cases, can be surprised by what we can do, given the right intent and right energy. I don’t know which companies will ultimately decide to do that. But I’m willing, at least to put them in the picture and then let them decide to what extent they want to play.

Rick Archer: Well, it’s cool, because in a way, you’re like a secret agent that’s going in and working from the inside with some of the I don’t know what companies are consulting with, but there’s no reason why a company like BP couldn’t, you know, channel much of its vast resources into alternative energy and solar and stuff like that, rather than spending hundreds of millions of dollars trying to cause doubt about global warming. So it would just be a matter I suppose, of whatever it is that moves the policymakers to make the policies that make

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I’ve chosen to work with CEOs because they tend to be you know, the visionaries need to tend to be the driving force behind the purpose and the vision and the intent of the company. But they also are having a hard time. You know, there are a lot of great CEOs out there who have good ideas, but they’re finding it difficult to bring a more enlightened understanding even into their own cultures and structures, they get a lot of kickback and resistance there. So we’re trying to provide a safe platform, a safe environment for those individuals who really do want to make a difference and want to help their companies make a difference, to kind of hothouse them, and support them.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I mean, what would you say to the idea that a company or a country for that matter is kind of governed by, ultimately by a certain collective consciousness, regardless of how enlightened the CEO or the president of the country may be, they are pretty much at the mercy of that collective consciousness.

Jeddah Mali: I wouldn’t say at the mercy because certain key individuals have managed to ignite a passion and a vision with those that they work with to the extent that they can elicit change. But it’s certainly true that they need to engage and turn around those cultures before they get the movement that they desire. And it’s very often the case that they themselves, as you rightly said, are much more liberal and pioneering and free than the companies that they represent. And oftentimes, they confine themselves to their own sort of personal vision quest, because then they don’t feel able to bring it it takes a rare individual to be charismatic enough, determined enough and sure enough, of themselves to be able to carry and influence and, and reprogram the doubting culture that exists.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and if they try that, inevitably, they’re gonna get a lot of flack. I live in Iowa and all the politicians come to Iowa. So I’ve had the opportunity to see President Obama a few times and I was had the opportunity to shake his hand on the rope line, they call it and said to him, we love you. So don’t let the turkeys get you down. He laughed. And he said, there’s a lot of them out there, they just keep on gobbling. So you can imagine being in a seat like that, and trying to introduce some initiative that represents, you know, a much more enlightened way of doing things and the flak you get when you try it. Yeah.

Jeddah Mali: I just think also, you know, nobody is really willing to stick their neck out and tell it like it is that and, and that is true of, you know, the sort of story behind how business and politics and money operates. But it’s also true of how existence operates, if you look at those who were willing to really stand up and say, no, actually existence is designed this way, this is its nature and this is its function. Even that doesn’t go down well it’s not welcomed on our planet, you know,

Rick Archer: you get crucified you get shot,

Jeddah Mali: you get crucified, you get shot. So, you can do so, until it is more widespread the understanding of exactly what this thing called existence is how we all come to be, you know, how is it that we can have experience how can we exist? How can we formulate a thought how can we make a sentence, how can we even reach out and pick up our water, none of this is really understood, you know, and science has come a long way, but is still operating, you know, with a with a ceiling above its head and and even those within science that try to move beyond that understanding are also castigated. So there seems to be a particularly sort of energetic resistance to embracing and understanding and acknowledging how we are designed what is really happening with us and to move away from the story that the five senses is giving us into that sixth sense of consciousness, producing it appearance. So until that happens, we are going to see, you know, the endless iterations of, you know, the illusion and the storyline and the dynamics and the mechanics and all of the posturing that goes on. It’s all just moving furniture around in the same room.

Rick Archer: That’s interesting. I think what you’re saying here speaks to something very fundamental to the structure of Creation, you know, in the in the Hindu realm, they have sattwa, rajas and tamas and and tamas is said to be inertia, and, you know, kind of holds things back. But all three are considered necessary for the actual creation to exist. If you just had pure creativity unbridled. It without any checks and balances with it without anything to sort of individuate and solidify, and so on, then we wouldn’t have the sort of tradition in which we find ourselves living it would be, I don’t know what it would be, it wouldn’t work

Jeddah Mali: well, it would keep it would keep moving on, it wouldn’t be able to maintain its structural integrity. So the oak tree would come into existence, but then would pass away again, very quickly, it needs to have a kind of staying force applied on it should be able to maintain its presence. in that form.

Rick Archer: We also have Ronald Vishnu, Shiva Brahma, the creator, Vishnu is said to be the maintainer, and Shiva the Destroyer, and you need all three elements in order for there to be a viable creation. So did you ever yourself getting back to your personal story for a minute, have, you know what you would have what you would call a, an awakening? A Satori, a Nirvana, that was a watershed moment for you beyond and you never went back? It was like you got enlightened.

Jeddah Mali: I don’t use the word enlightened, because it’s to me, it seems very loaded, and is actually of all the people I’ve worked with is actually a huge hindrance, it causes so much grief, that I actually say to people don’t, don’t shoot for that as a goal, you know, you can be continuously consciously content, that’s, that’s a much better goal. I don’t think there was. I don’t think there was a single like smackeroo blurty moment that changed everything. But I do remember, there was a period during which things were occurring to me. And so I use the term truth realized, so I realized the truth in those in that period of time, and it was a series of moments. And that has never left me so that somehow in blazoned also, it was basically being gifted the knowledge of the structural mechanics of existence, to being sort of being able to go behind, you know, the Wizard of Oz curtain and look and see, you know, what is bringing all this into being, and I might add, you know, for, because I tend to, you know, pass off the scientists because I talk in very general terms about this. So, I have an absolute knowingness of the validity of that experience. But I wasn’t necessarily necessarily shown it in, you know, like a microscopic view, it was more I was just given that the general truth of it. And that’s been the basis of everything that I’ve done since. So that did happen, but I wouldn’t really call it Enlightenment because Enlightenment, as I understand it, is when the truth that you know, is fully integrated and realized in your energy body in your full energy bodies. And that is for me, a work in progress.

Rick Archer: Beautiful answer. I asked because sometimes people portray Enlightenment or awakening, and most people are a little squeamish about the word Enlightenment, but let’s say awakening, as a sort of a black white on off situation, and they even use the argument. It’s like pregnancy, either you’re pregnant, or you’re not, you know, but if you walk up to a woman who’s maybe one month pregnant and say, Whoa, you really look pregnant, you know, you’re likely to offend her. But if you walk up to somebody who’s eight months pregnant and say that you’ll have a nice conversation about motherhood or something. So seems to me there are degrees of maturity of awakening. And I suppose there is a single moment at which you become pregnant, but it might actually might not be you probably aren’t aware of it. And it might grow by degrees to the point where you, you begin to recognize symptoms.

Jeddah Mali: Yes, that’s a very good analogy. I do remember the point where I realized that I realized, and then that was, that was a ah, so, I mean, yes, we could call that an awakening. And as I said, I use the term truth realisation just because it’s very, I like to use very functional terms, you know, to get away from all of this jargon around spirituality, and that, you know, spiritual seekers have their own language that no one understands. And, you know, just to put it in everyday terms, yeah, I realized something. However, again, you know, if you go around saying I realized the truth, people get jittery about that, too, you know, who to say, Yeah, it sounds POM person, you know?

Rick Archer: What, if you qualify it, you know,

Jeddah Mali: you can qualify it. But that sounds like justification. So, what I’ve chosen to do is just, you know, this is what I understand. This is, you know, the ways that I explain it, and then you can see if it works for you. And let people find it within their own experience.

Rick Archer: Now, when you mentioned it a few minutes ago, in response to my question, you said, you you, when you describe the this realization of truth, it was sort of in terms of a realization of the mechanics of creation or something. But usually, when people talk about awakening or realization, it’s in terms of Self Realization, recognizing the Self as pure Universal Consciousness, as opposed to one, you know, regarding oneself as a flesh based, you know, bound little thing. So how would you explain this in terms of Self Realization?

Jeddah Mali: Well, that’s very perceptive point, I have, I have always found it difficult to experience, the individuated self. So it doesn’t seem you know, the self in most cases is, you know, the eye of the, of the small self. And, for me, the eye has always been the higher self. So there weren’t, didn’t feel like there was a small self to have that realization, you know, all along, I’ve always felt that I was the higher self. However, I do have a personality, I do have an identity. You know, I do have a temperament, I do have a disposition. I do have likes and dislikes, and all of those things that come with the human realm. So but I have a much more tenuous connection to that than then most people would. So for me, my focus in that moment, and in almost in all my meditations is not so much on there is no me. The I that I experienced is the I have universal consciousness. So to me, it seems very normal and natural that I should understand that, rather than this,

Rick Archer: Yeah. Some people argue that since you can’t actually find a nugget of an individual self, no matter how you hard you look, that there isn’t one, you know, that it’s that there is no self, no. And many teachers base their whole teaching on this. And they even go to conclude things like well, since there is no individual self, there couldn’t be reincarnation, because there’s nothing to reincarnate. And there couldn’t be free will, because there’s no one to decide, and so on and so forth. What would you say to that argument?

Jeddah Mali: I’d say it’s, it’s half baked. We have, again, you know, it’s much more elegant there and you know, the sort of black and white kind of scenarios that people propose. We exist on a spectrum, just like the dimensions do we exist right across that spectrum. So our, our physical self is going to have make certain conclusions around life based on our genetics, based on our cultural environment, based on our education based on you know, our our family and friends. And based on the times in which we are born, you know, so there’s all those influences feeding into the physical self, which gives it a uniqueness for that particular incarnation. As well as you know, the astrology whether you buy into that or not, they know that’s also going to be unique for each incarnation and for each person. So all of those are X factors which are slightly by calibrating you differently to your neighbor. So that creates that diversity that we see, when we move into the fourth dimension, we start to see the soul self. It’s the human incarnations get sort of uploaded into this vehicle of the soul self. And the soul self is the capsule, which goes through subsequent incarnations, and each of the individual incarnations just gets passed up into the soul self. So the soul self is the repository for that knowledge in each incarnation. Then, at the same time, as the soul self is, is receiving that information up from in the individuated of physical bodies, is also receiving the influence coming down from the higher self. So that’s the self which stays forever connected into those higher realms and is never divorced from so we’re existing right across that all of the time. So the soul self is the is the sort of the capture or the vehicle, which propels us from incarnation to incarnation, the free will, is another sort of faculty, which is tied to our use of consciousness. So we can we can direct our attention, we can direct our will towards making choices, you know, which is a uniquely human experience. So to say that there’s no self to exert freewill is misunderstanding the full design of how we’re put together.

Rick Archer: That’s a beautiful answer. And it’s a very nuanced understanding that I think would be a benefit to be, you know, more widely propagated. Because a lot of spiritual speakers these days aren’t so nuanced. And like you say, it’s there, they’re more kind of black and white than that. I mean, couldn’t we kind of borrow an understanding from physics where, if I take my hand, for instance, and look deeper, and deeper and deeper, and deeper and deeper, I get to the point where it’s all there is actually no material substance, and there’s no hand and it’s all just sort of this unmanifest potentiality, but still on, on a practical level, have a hand, you know, so, you know, you can say it’s ultimately unreal, but that’s not really a practical consideration. And you can say, gravity is ultimately non existent, but don’t go jumping off buildings to prove it. You know. So, I mean, there’s this, as you say, there’s this full spectrum of creation, many, many, many dimensions, and each dimension, although you can dismiss it as unreal, if you want to analyze it closely enough. Each dimension has its own level of reality, its own laws, its own and deserves its do in terms of our

Jeddah Mali: And those who say you know that nothing exists, they’re talking about, you know, the formless realms and then talking really about those three higher realms, which do not require form in order to exist. So the for the formless realms, the fifth, sixth, and the seventh, have a very rapid frequency. And when consciousness resides there, the the concern and the degree to which the physical or even the formed is given. Waiting is really, really, really minimal. So that’s where people start to talk about, oh, nothing exists on it all illusion, they’re talking from that place, but simultaneously, you also have a soul self that is actually seeking incarnation is actually seeking individuated experiences in order to expose itself to a wide variety of experiences and situations and people in order to learn more. So

Rick Archer: And why does it want to do that?

Jeddah Mali: Well, you know, existence exists. And that’s, that’s clear. And that’s the formless part, which is the unchanging you know, but existence wants to know that it exists. So, existence wants to experience itself and the only way it can do that, is by creating consciousness with so it’s consciousness is growing within the totality of existence, and it’s that growing consciousness of itself, that is the evolution of consciousness. We’re never going to have more existence or less existence than we’ve got now existence is what it is, but the extent to which existence knows itself consciously, and therefore experientially is changing and growing and emerging. And that’s the whole purpose of, of human beings is to feed that information up into to add to the great knowingness.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And wouldn’t you say not only human beings, but dogs and cats and germs and the entire universe? Why did it come into existence in the first place?

Jeddah Mali: Of course, of course. I mean, there’s it interesting, though, that dogs and cats and germs don’t have consciousness in the same way. And this sets a lot of people off, because they say, oh, no, they’re sacred, and, you know, the, they have awareness, but not conscious awareness. So we have to make awareness, self awareness. Exactly. So we have to make these distinctions. Otherwise, we are misunderstanding, again, and you know, with the best of intent, we can, you know, still be barking up the wrong tree,

Rick Archer: Or meowing as the case may be. Yeah, and if you look at their nervous systems, it’s clear that there’s less development there, you know, we have more sophisticated brains. And so it stands to reason that we’re going to have a more sophisticated capacity for self recognition.

Jeddah Mali: Yes, however, because they don’t have that, they have a far greater capacity for direct connection to awareness, which is, you know, well documented, and shown, and most people accept that, you know, because they’re tuned in directly to the intelligence of existence. And, and, and operate from that. So, on the one hand, they don’t have the capacity for individuated self reflection. But on the other hand, they are amazing examples of if your mind can get out of the way, you know, this is this is what you’re able to sort of be and download and express.

Rick Archer: It’s an interesting point. And some people actually jumped to the conclusion that animals are enlightened, or, by the same token, babies are enlightened because they, yeah, they seem innocent. And yet, you know, you have to kind of pass through this minefield of evolution. And before you can kind of get to the point at which you have the innocence of an animal or a baby. And yet, you know, a whole new level of

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, but you have to choose it consciously, rather than just have it as a as a God given faculty. Yeah.

Rick Archer: Okay, so I want to give you a chance to talk a little bit about what you offer what you teach. I listened to all of the tapes, or haven’t yet done all the guided meditations, but I listened to all the talks in your changing the paradigm series, and enjoyed that very much, and I’m all for changing the paradigm. So would you like to touch upon what’s in that series, and, you know, what you like, what you’re trying to do with people and, and it’s not just corporations and stuff. I mean, people can order these recordings and do and so on,

Jeddah Mali: ya know, the work that I’m doing with businesses and corporations for this come latterly, you know, started working with individuals. And so, I’ve been asked, I’ve been asked, by, you know, the, the honest answers, I was asked by the Brotherhood to do this, to make these teachings available.

Rick Archer: How about the sisterhood?

Jeddah Mali: Say again,

Rick Archer: is there a sisterhood?

Jeddah Mali: No, you know, which just pisses the feminist off no end. And, you know, I have irate emails form them. To me, the word doesn’t upset me at all. It just means, you know, a fraternity which is still implies men I know, of beings. So

Rick Archer: of all genders?

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, but I mean,

Rick Archer: Or is gender is irrelevant at that level?

Jeddah Mali: Exactly. Of course. And you know, the word the word Brotherhood was just simply coined, at a time when they understood things to be, you know, working through groups of men, you know, and

Rick Archer: And you’ve mentioned Mother Mary, and Mary Magdalene, and all that. So

Jeddah Mali: yeah, so those terms, and they are also part of the Brotherhood. So those terms have just stuck and I don’t I don’t get hung up on them, but some people do. So.

Rick Archer: So you were asked,

Jeddah Mali: I was asked to make these teachings available and

Rick Archer: Excuse me not to be just because people have these kinds of questions. I can just hear people say, Wait a minute. How did she know she was asked what in what form did that request come? Was she you know, did she hear a voice did she see a vision? How does she know it’s not just her imagination? Try to substantiate that a little bit for people?

Jeddah Mali: Well, I said earlier that I’ve just throughout my life, and particularly through my adult life, I’ve had an ability just without trying to be able to tune in with these teachers and masters guides. And so a lot of the information that comes to me just comes to me as a as a readily known download. So I just know that I know. And I don’t need any sort of process of substantiation within my own being, it’s a kind of, it comes with a level of certainty, and trust, that is its own messenger, if you like so. And it relates, in some ways to the kind of trust and certainty I felt as a child, it was just simply on unquestioned. I know for a lot of people unquestioned equates to a lack of discernment, which is all they’re worried about. Yeah. But the fruits of the work, speak for themselves. And so, you know, the process of how it came about is less important, less exciting. So, it was really to make known what I had already, I’ve already described about this is possible for every single human being to have direct access to the energy of existence in any given moment. So these are these, that’s the thrust of the teachings. It also became known to me that these were going to be available through a series of CDs, and that it was going to be three volumes. And I, I did you know, consciously tune in to see what topics were going to be there and feel that we’re we’ve covered, you know, the first volume, seeds of Enlightenment sort of covers the, the general principles that we need to understand in order to navigate on a day

Rick Archer: I actually have the title to your conscious awareness in the present moment, intention and feedback, overcoming limitation, energy centers, energy bodies, trust and surrender, changing the paradigm and benevolent intelligence.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, so that’s really just introducing people to some of the nuts and bolts that are part of it. Then with embracing freedom, we really wanted to create a volume that dealt with, you know, what are the major issues for people on a daily basis? Sure, they want to be enlightened Sure, they want to know more, that everybody wants to live in ease and peace, you know, it’s goes without saying, So what are the kinds of things that trip people up that they need, you know, which seem like small things, but they need to be able to be proficient, and conversant with these issues before they can move on, in any real way. So that’s what embracing freedom was really to just deal with, you know, the pitfalls of daily human life.

Rick Archer: Let me read the titles of that one is willing and allowing, holding consciousness steady, clear, light, mind, meaning, physical body, self acceptance, self responsibility, balance, humility, confidence, the nature of giving and unseen helpers. And yeah,

Jeddah Mali: so so. And then the third one was really to open the doors of the design of existence and say, Look, this is how these are the sort of energetic structural components of existence, and this is how you can participate in that directly. So looking at the not only the mechanics, but particularly the frequency, so infinite grace, the third volume is specifically introducing people to those higher frequency states. That, you know, everybody desires and very, very people understand. So working with the structural mechanics of expansion and light and harmony, and an all the states that are possible through that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I should say that each volume is sort of a back and forth between an introduction in which you explain the principles of what you’re going to do. And then a guided meditation in which people can experience what what you’ve just explained.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Which is really important. And that’s where the rubber meets the road. You can listen to all the introductions you can listen to them every day. Some people I know have them on a loop, you know in their house. But it, it’s a nice piece of information but doesn’t exact any transformation unless we practice it unless we integrate light consciously into our energy field, when we won’t get to call it our own, we won’t get to experience it will always have that will always have the States as a nice holiday destination, but it won’t be like a permanent residence.

Rick Archer: How many people have done these courses?

Jeddah Mali: Oh, hundreds of 1000s.

Rick Archer: Wow,

Jeddah Mali: yeah,

Rick Archer: now,

Jeddah Mali: we

Rick Archer: When people go to your website and look at this, they’re gonna say she must be a very rich woman. And that money thing always comes up. So you might as well address it?

Jeddah Mali: Well, I’ll tell you the truth right here, I get 7% of the profit of the sales,

Rick Archer: Where does rest of it go?

Jeddah Mali: to the company that paid for it or to happen. So, so no, I’m not a very rich woman. But I’m a very content woman. And I’m a woman’s happy with my level of service. So I get paid in other ways. So so the CDS is one avenue. The other avenue that we offer is a DVD, which was just a recording of a retreat I did, which is yet another avenue. So each year, actually not this year. But each year in California, we’ve put on a public retreat where people can come and you know, spend time, you know, three, four or five days. And those I love, those have been fantastic, amazing. Bunch of people turn up each year. And we have a lot of fun and deep learning. So that’s been great. This year, I’m going to be at Findhorn in October, end of October, so won’t be in California.

Rick Archer: Is that when the retreat usually is late October?

Jeddah Mali: No, it’s usually around June time. Yeah, May, June time. So this year is going to be in October. And so those are the ways that I’ve been working with people for many, many years, as well as doing private mentoring, and doing groups. So

Rick Archer: What kind of results have you seen you have all these hundreds of 1000s of people who’ve been working for many years? I mean, how many people have awakened to some degree in the direction of what you have experienced? To what extent have you been able to impart or convey or facility enable others? Yeah, replicate?

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well, you can people can go to the testimonials on the website, we have hundreds and hundreds of testimonials. And we put up you know, a fraction of that on our website, we’re very fortunate in so much as the teachings are very clean, they’re very pure. And they’re given that way freely, so that people are able to experience it very directly. And it’s made a significant change, I think, in a lot of people’s lives. So we don’t have we have the data to know that there’s people in 62 countries around the world using our material. But we don’t NASA, sometimes we take the odd survey, you know, and ask people what’s happening. But we have amazing testimonials of things that have happened in people’s lives. And it’s all very positive. It’s very gratifying. And we’re very lucky in two matches, we have pretty much 99.9% 100% satisfaction rate. So we’re very blessed in that way. And wonderful people that we’ve got to work with. So yeah, they’re a nice community.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, as I say, I’ve listened to them all. I’m one of these people who’s just namely, listen to the introductions. I listen to a bunch of, of the meditations. But I was I haven’t I meditate a lot every day, but I have my own way of doing it. I really should devote some time to sitting and I’d like to

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, yeah.

Rick Archer: Just going going through your thing.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. It was some some people say, one of the things we hear a lot is that, you know, I’ve been meditating for 30 or 40 years. And doing your meditations has actually brought me to the place that I’ve been trying to get to all that time. So those are the kinds of comments that we hear regularly.

Rick Archer: I’ve never considered myself much of a visualizer you know, when when I listen to a guided meditation, they’re talking about oh, and I’ll see you like, it’s kind of a amorphous mush. I’m not really kind of visualizing it very clearly.

Jeddah Mali: But that comes to though that comes with practice. And sometimes there’s too much depending on how we’re wired as well. You know, if you if you have the kind of meditations where you go into a very peaceful state, and you just want to maintain that peace and keep the mind at bay, then you know, a lot of words can seem sort almost like it’s crashing in on that environment. But you In order to, I mean, I always say I’m very clear with people, I’m not about giving anybody just a nice ride, you know, this is not about just making you feel good about yourself or the world. These teachings are designed to make you free. But actually, what I’ve discovered over the years is that the percentage of people who actually are willing to go through the process of freedom is miniscule compared to those who say they want it. And those who say they want it is minuscule compared to all the beings on the planet. Actually, most people, even though they want to be happy, they want to be content, they want to be successful. They don’t necessarily frame that in terms of freedom.

Rick Archer: Yeah, the Bhagavad Gita says something like that, too, you know, it sort of narrows it down from you know, those who haven’t even heard of it, to those who hear of it, and those who actually do something about it to those who actually realize it becomes a very small subset of his left. So how, your, how many kids do you have? Full for, ranging in quite a quite an age range?

Jeddah Mali: 10 to 23.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So this is a rubber meet the road meets the road situation, I mean, how, you know, with all of your, you know, beautiful transcendent experience and all that, how easy was it to meet the challenges of marriage and family life?

Jeddah Mali: Not that easy. On the one hand, meeting, the beingness of my children is, is just a piece of cake, you know, it’s the, it’s the area of my life where I can instantly feel bliss and contentment, you know, just being around my children and just tuning in with them, and just holding them and loving them, and witnessing them and experiencing them. So that comes very readily and easily. And it’s something I’m very much enjoy, in terms of, you know, the discipline and organization of making sure that there’s always a meal on the table that everything is done in advance, and that I did quite well, I will admit, in terms of the mental strain. And, and the sheer busyness and noise of a household were three of them were young, at the same time, that I that I didn’t ace at all that I really struggled with. Because I’m, as you can probably guess, quite a sensitive person. And so sometimes, the clamor and the clutter of an active, busy, noisy, demanding household. I didn’t do well with so it’s, it’s not all one way. But I, I feel that my forte is in loving my children that they will grow up feeling absolutely seen and loved.

Rick Archer: That’s great. I wanted to ask you that question. Because, you know, I think it’s very common for people to either aspire to spiritual experience, or to have one, and yet have a really hard time integrating it in practical life. In fact, I interviewed this woman about a month ago named Project McGinty, and she was sort of like you prior to the children, you know, just having these sublime experiences and going into Samadhi for hours on end, and, and then she gave birth to twins three months premature, and ended up with this incredibly intense challenge. And, you know, nearly brought her to suicide, but, but she kind of came around and eventually rose to the challenge and is has come full circle, you know, in terms of really living a very enlightened life while still raising these these developmentally challenged girls.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I’m, I’m no longer married to my husband, although we have, you know, a wonderful co parenting relationship. So I’ve had to also really take hold of the challenge of providing for myself and my children, and, you know, making my way in the world and, and all of that I’ve had to keep a lot of plates spinning. And I tend to acquire animals too. So as well as me for children, I ended up with five animals as well. So I have horses and cats and so there’s a lot of responsibility. There’s a lot to do and so don’t always feel entirely gracious with all of that.

Rick Archer: While you’re very honest in your You in saying that? You know, I mean, and people appreciate that. And you’re also setting a good example for, you know, we’ve all got challenges, if you don’t mind me asking and feel free to decline to answer this, but I probably shouldn’t even ask. But in terms of your husband, you know, was there sort of a problem with being on such different wavelengths? You being so kind of spiritually oriented? And most people aren’t?

Jeddah Mali: No, I don’t think that was so much of an issue for him. I think for me, as I’m, I’m a curious case, even for myself, in so much as I’ve had, I’ve always, since a young child had this readily available on fettered access to the heavens. But I haven’t always been able to directly translate that into living life well as a human being. So I’ve had all of the same lessons that anybody would have had. And you would say to me, Well, why didn’t you make use of that information that you had access to? I have, I have made use of that information. But you still need to apply it on a daily basis. And you need to make sure it’s integrated to such a level that is automatic. So that is the process that I’m going through just like anybody else. So in terms of my ability to relate to another human being, as a life partner, whether it’s my husband or another partner, then I have some of the challenges that anybody would have in that situation, you know. And the beauty is that I experienced difficulty, that I have an amazing resource that I can draw on, to be able to make sense of that and to really see it on a full spectrum level. So I don’t know I’m not. I’m not. I’m not committed to being in the problem. I’m not destined to be in the problem I have, I have the possibility of seeing beyond the problem. But seeing beyond the individual human self into a wider sense.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Beautiful answer. Give me a lesson. In other words, you’re not totally blinkered, by the situation at hand. There’s sort of other dimensions to it.

Jeddah Mali: Exactly Right

Rick Archer: bring to bear on any situation.

Jeddah Mali: Yes, exactly. Right. Yes. Well put. Yeah. And, and I’m very grateful for that, you know, and there have been periods of my life where I didn’t, maybe I took that access for granted, because it’s been there all along. It, there was a stage of my life where it was much more normal for me to speak to Jesus than it was to speak to my mother, you know, I get better with him than I do with my mom, you know, so, I’ve always been orientated to the, to the non physical beings, and that that side of things is easy for me. But to really make this pledge to show up as a human being, and let all of that wisdom, all of that light, come into my everyday life that that is that’s an ongoing process. And I do it with as much humility and honesty and goodwill as I can.

Rick Archer: Well, you know, there’s a famous saying that we’re not physical beings having a spiritual experience. We’re spiritual beings having a physical experience. And I think that’s probably true of everyone, but it’s interesting to meet somebody for whom that who’s living that large, you know, and who’s, you know, really constantly experiencing a much fuller significance of that phrase.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah. Well, I the reason I say I’m a bit of an odd case is most most beings have a certain degree of conscious knowingness and they are trying to extend that and and expand that conscious knowingness. I, I am an unusual case and so much as I normally reside in these realms, and whether that’s home for me, and I don’t often incarnate so the process of incarnation and the taking hold of a body and operating the physical body, which is you know exactly what happened when I was a child, you know, the taking hold of that physical body that my beingness was at a different frequency to my physical form, and there was a slight mismatch. That process has been has not been straightforward for me so I’m actually feel like I’m trying to become more human as most of the people around me only become less human.

Rick Archer: That’s an interesting tidbit. I’m glad you brought that out just now. So you’re looking at the big picture now and saying that for most of your existence as a soul, at least in recent ages, yeah. You have not been human. You’ve been living on some other plane, primarily. And that, you know, this is a bit of a dip into concreteness that I’ve been accustomed to so much.

Jeddah Mali: Exactly. I’ve had close to regret that decision.

Rick Archer: Stop the world, I want to get off. Interesting, interesting. Well, this has been delightful. I have another interview coming up in about five minutes, I’ll have to wrap up. But I hope we will do this again, when these days, you know, you’re one of these people that I feel like I’ve just scratched the surface, and that we could somehow work it out. And I say this, with apologies to a lot of the people I’ve interviewed who are clamoring for a second interview, we’ll do it eventually. There’s over 1000 people on the list clamoring for a first one. But I feel like there’s a lot more to unpack with you. And you know, maybe even five years from now you will have a lot of stuff will have unfolded that you haven’t done. Yeah. So we’ll see how it goes.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, but I’ve enjoyed it too. So thank you very much,

Rick Archer: then we ever tell you look a lot like the American actress Vera Farmiga.

Jeddah Mali: I’m not familiar with her,

Rick Archer: Look her up. Okay. Before we conclude, let me just make some wrap up points that I always make. People who are listening to this, You have been listening or watching an interview and an ongoing series, there are about 230 of them so far, and you will find them all archived on Bat gap. And their Jetta, Molly Will have her own page for this interview. And I’ll have information about her and a link to her website, and so on. So you can follow through to that and get in touch with her. There are also several different indices of the of the previous interviews, there’s an alphabetical one down the right hand side, there’s a chronological one under past interviews, there will eventually be a geographical one, there’s a cont, there’s a topical one, you know, and trying to categorize people in terms of different what they do. So explore all that. There’s a page, there’s another menu, which says future interviews, and there’s a place where you can see the upcoming ones you can you can suggest a guest if you like there’s a menu for that. And there’s also an upcoming events page where you know, I haven’t really done this comprehensively yet, but all the people I’ve interviewed are some of them. Anyway, so far, you can see events that they may be offering in different parts of the world. Then there is a donate button, which I appreciate people clicking makes all this possible. I want to continue to make this available for free to everyone who likes to watch but that depends upon some people donating if they feel inclined, there is a place to sign up to be notified by email of each interview as it’s released. You won’t get really any emails other than that you get about one a week. There’s a discussion group that crops up around each interview, and there’ll be one for this interview specifically, you’ll see a link to it. And there’s also a link to an audio podcast on iTunes. So you can subscribe to that if you don’t feel like just sitting in front of your computer watching things for hours on end. You can just listen while you’re cutting the grass or something. So thanks for listening or watching and we’ll see you next week. And thank you again Jeddah, it was really a joy.

Jeddah Mali: Yeah, me too. Yeah, I really enjoyed meeting you. Thank you very much.

Rick Archer: All righty.

Jeddah Mali: Take care. Bye.

Rick Archer: Bye.