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Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually Awakening people. We’ve done about 200 345 of them so far. And if this is new to you, you could go to batgap.com and you’ll see all the previous ones archived and categorized under the past interviews menu. This is made possible by the support of appreciative donors and lists, donors so if you have been donating, we thank you for that. And if you’d like to, there’s a PayPal button on the right hand side of the site. My guest today is Ganga Mira Ganga Mira was born Genevieve to cook in Belgium in 1947. In 1968, during her second year at the University while studying philosophy, she stumbled upon a saying of Socrates, which actually was written in the temple of Apollo at Delphi, but Socrates and Plato and others quoted it, which hit her straight in the heart, and that saying was Know thyself. Realizing that this was precisely what she had always been looking for, she instantly dropped her studies and set out set out for India by road in search of a living Socrates or Buddha, and reaching the Himalayan foothills. She led a meditative and aesthetic life by the Ganges in Rishikesh waiting to meet her master. The locals called her Mira because of her devoted renunciation at the end of 1968. In circumstances well worthy of Indian mythology, which we’re going to talk about a little bit, she met a man whom she with whom she had an awakening experience. He left the following day without merit knowing anything about him neither his name nor his address. The one certainty was that finally she had found her master. To give yourself the best chance of seeing him again, she decided to live at the exact spot of their meeting. For eight months, she waited for him and meditated under a little tree on the banks of the Ganga River. One day her master HW L. Pooja disciple of Ramana Maharshi. And by the way, most people know this, but that’s Papaji will be talking about him, came back for her, she became his disciple and wife and started to travel with him. In 1971 Papaji was invited to give Satsang in Europe and Mira accompanied him. Their daughter mukta was born in 1972, and little family went on traveling the world. For the education of her daughter, Mira returned to Belgium in 1990. HW el punto ultracold Papaji settled permanently in Lucknow where he gave Satsang every day until he passed away in 1997. In 1998, Mira was invited to give Satsang which she continues giving to this day, all over the world, she decided to call herself Ganga. In 2004 Ganga Mira moved to Portugal, she lives near the wild ocean of the Algarve a with her daughter, mukta and her grandchildren and give Satsang four times a week. Now, you don’t have to say all that. And I’ve listened to quite a few of those sad songs maybe run an hour and a half long have listened to maybe five of them over the past week and enjoyed them very much. They’re very light hearted and informal and but very kind of direct and clear and cut to the chase as we say. So I’d like to go over some of these biographical things a little bit more if we could, because you have such a fascinating story. I told David Godman that I was going to be interviewing you and he said, oh, you should read certain pages and nothing ever happened. So I, I managed to get a hold of the books, which nothing ever happened is a an extensive over 1500 Page biography of Papaji. And I read the whole section all the sections I could find about you and every time I started reading something, I got so caught up in the story that I just kept reading even past those particular pages. That’s a whole fascinating thing in itself. But um, I’d love to just go through a few of these points with you in a little bit more detail before we get into the actual points of the teaching. For one thing, I mean it was I find it very impressive that you just as soon as you knew what you wanted, you just dropped everything you’re doing and headed east headed to India. That showed a great deal I think of perhaps dedication courage.
Ganga Mira: I would say fire fire. Yes, because you see I was so disaster desperate that I yet to to find out. To Die, you know how the youth is? Yeah, it was only that possibility. So I wanted to first to find, and I believed so much in the ways of the Buddha’s because of my background. You know, I had a lot and I was always fascinated by the stories of disciples and the Buddha, this lineage at least. And so, yeah, I had to, I was sure, I was determined that that was the way to find a living Master.
Rick Archer: So if you had already been reading a lot about Buddhism and so on, you must have already known about the concept of knowing the self. Right, but how is it that the saying of the Oracle at Delphi or Socrates suddenly struck you when your previous reading hadn’t? hadn’t done? So?
Ganga Mira: You know, I was probably not that much matured, I was just very attracted by wisdom, even to I didn’t I could not put a name on it. But when I read Socrates, then suddenly, I found that was it because I put the question to myself and I, not in a psychological way. So and I could not answer so this is it, but I don’t know.
Rick Archer: So the time was right, and it really hit you. Yeah, deeply property. And this thing of hitchhiking to India amazes me. I mean, you couldn’t do that these days with and live to tell about it. But in those days, I guess a lot of people were doing it.
Ganga Mira: Not a lot of people did myself, I did it with my boyfriend to his back to us before. And we went up to India crossing all the land. So because of that, I knew where to stop. I felt familiar, more or less to the southwest. And I was so determined to see it was really a question of life or death. So you are so determined. Yeah. So I was hating that way.
Rick Archer: Yeah, so this is a you must have been 20 years old at that time. And so you got the rishi cash, and you were living a meditative aesthetic life. And then Papaji showed up for one day and disappeared. And then you actually just lived under this tree day and night, didn’t you? I mean, you’d even have a little hut that you went to you just lived under the tree. Yeah,
Ganga Mira: under the tree. That was enough, isn’t it? Some people say that the roof is the sky, and yet the shade of the tree?
Rick Archer: Yeah. I mean, there must have been rain and snakes.
Ganga Mira: Especially cold, rainy season. Not at the time, but very cold.
Rick Archer: Yeah, it gets quite cold in Rishikesh. You just had like one blanket. And
Ganga Mira: exactly one blanket and fire. I was making fire. That was my main occupation a bit Zen niche, like, go and fetch the wood and make fire and feel cold. But you are in the blanket. And you you trust that the waist?
Rick Archer: And you slept right on the ground? Right? You didn’t have a map a mattress or anything?
Ganga Mira: Yeah, the US, the US can make those things. You know, it’s true. Yeah.
Rick Archer: But it’s impressive. I mean, it’s symptomatic, I would say of your ardency you know, your your zeal, your fire to use your word. And wouldn’t you say this is a you might want to comment on that. The more art and you know, the word art, the more the more zealous the more the brighter the fire the more somehow nature responds to it, right? Or
Ganga Mira: not the fire has to be directed. You see if it is if it is the fire for something, you know, then then it will present. That’s true. But some does don’t know yet the fire but they have not yet seen what floor. So I was lucky enough to know what I wanted through. And that’s why that’s why probably I made the one I need it. Yeah, even that.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, someone might say, Well, I have a fire to be a rock star or I really want to be a doctor or something. And if you really do then that’s probably what you’re going to do. But in your case, it was just the one thing.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, yeah, sure.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay, and so when you you’re meditating under this little tree for like, hours and hours and hours a day, right, just sitting in.
Ganga Mira: It was sitting it was bathing in the Ganges it was walking a little bit. And I guess you know, I As in no state, maybe it’s a maybe a big word, but a kind of Samadhi. state of not so aware. Yeah. You know, that meeting was so strong, it threw me in such a state that I couldn’t live like this. Yeah.
Rick Archer: So even the very brief meeting that happened shifted your whole consciousness or whatever. Interesting. And that stage shifted all that time. Did she? In other words, it was a permanent shift, even that that one
Ganga Mira: was a permanent shift, to probably not clearly because I wanted to go back there since it looked to me the real thing I wanted, you know, and I knew I needed help for that. From the master, so but I was put in a state, when I could have waited all my life.
Rick Archer: I was just gonna ask that I was gonna, I was just gonna ask, like, did you ever have doubts, like, you know, maybe this guy isn’t gonna show up again. And I should just go and you’re just, you’re just gonna sit there for the rest of your life if you had to?
Ganga Mira: Yeah. Otherwise, I had to die. Or, you know, I had these comments in me. So that’s amazing. My The master said, I don’t love you because you are beautiful or whatever. It’s because I have recognized that fire. Right. And I think today I measure more what he meant. It’s to its to the fire was there.
Rick Archer: Among your current students, or those you’ve been meeting with? Do you see any fire of that degree of intensity? Oh, maybe you make them go sleep out on the grass. To test it.
Ganga Mira: Oh, I have to ask my daughter to be like Karmani. You know, the story of Gabby. And they
Rick Archer: know what, how does that go?
Ganga Mira: You go to see my father, otherwise, I cut off your head. And, you know, but first, I have to cut off your head. And nobody went, of course, because that was too much. I mean, something like that. Of course, you know, the people. You know, I must say, a few friends. I call them my friends who dedicate their life to live where I live in Portugal where it is, there is nothing here. They are very fiery. Because it’s not easy to live here and take the idea for Satsang. Yeah, so surely the fire
Rick Archer: what would you say people can do? Let I mean, I think most people understand what you mean by fire, and they realize it would be a good thing, but maybe they feel like their fire is just a little flame. What would you say people could do too bright to make the fire more intense, you know, to to increase the intensity? Yeah.
Ganga Mira: First of four, let them ask what is the priority in life means I have to die soon. What I want to realize first, if it is liberation, it gives another urgency, it gives more fire. And then you keep the company of those who love that to you see with the same passion. So there are beautiful books nowadays available of the same lineage speaking of indicating the duration, and Satsang your life. For me, it’s very important.
Rick Archer: And what would you say to people who, you know, they they want, they say they say they want liberation, but they also want to raise a family and they want to make some money, and they want this and that. And the other thing? How would you comment if they came to you and said that?
Ganga Mira: Well, I would welcome them because I think it’s already fantastic to introduce Satsang in their life, but of course, they cannot expect probably to realize on the spot as it can be because of those desires that they want to fulfill still. So they have like one leg here and one leg there, which is already fantastic. When you see how the word concept, you know,
Rick Archer: right? And then your and they might say, well, in your case, you you had a daughter and so you had some kind of worldly interest, but I think your case is a little bit different because your husband was a master.
Ganga Mira: Yeah. And also, you know, you may be surprised to speak like this. Just not my desire. I was following believing in the path of detachment. So I totally I’m surrender to whatever was happening with my master because I knew that was the most precious. So it was always for me. The master was the first it’s, I never forget, forgot him as a master. First, you see. And now, of course, the wonderful thing is that I’m very happy that he gave me a daughter, a family. And it removes also it removes the separation between this and that.
Rick Archer: What do you mean by that?
Ganga Mira: I mean, that you can cook and still be totally fiery. To, to if if you didn’t realize yourself yet, to dedicate a second to that whatever you do, you do that depression is, as always been raised by the master. Because, you know, the time I was with him, it was like, we were walking, busy marketing the market to buy potatoes or making tea, or simply sit hearing him. There was no particular moment, every moment could be that one.
Rick Archer: So it didn’t so much matter what you were doing on the outside appearance, you know, appearances were superficial, but on the inside that fire was burning. Yeah, it’s, as you probably are aware in the in the Bhagavad Gita, it says that, you know, it’s a very great fortune to be born in a family of Yogi’s. So your daughter has that very great fortune, has she turned out to be a ardent spiritual aspirant, or, you know, person that she is interested in spirituality as, as her parents. And so you
Ganga Mira: can make it as you like, but she comes to every Satsang and her father is on master. So
Rick Archer: that’s great. And she has a couple children herself now. So your grandma? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Okay. You mentioned that in this little bio, that I read that for the education of your daughter, mira, you returned to Belgium and you returned to Belgium, and in 1990, Papaji set up in Lucknow permanently. Does that mean that you became separated? Or were you somehow back and forth and
Ganga Mira: of course, we were visited. First of all, we never felt a Brit it up to a certain extent in time, because our letters correspondence was very intense. Each letter I vote he was replying with great love and great teaching in it. So we were with him actually. Yeah. Now, physically, we could meet him only every three years because of lack of money. Yeah, because of that. And but as I say, that was not felt like this now in 99. In 1990, when he was in Lucknow, that was another phase of his life. You see, so it was not there was no place for family life. Yeah. As we knew him. So for us that was a big shift.
Rick Archer: Yeah, at that point, he became kind of famous and all these all these people who are now Satsang teachers, were there Neelam and Ganga, Ji and Mooji, and all these Andrew Koan, and all kinds of people were hanging around in those days.
Ganga Mira: Which was, which is fantastic. And you know, when I met to him in 92, in Lucknow, I really knew my time is over i Yet I yet so much, you know, I get to choose that now. Haley by myself, it was time for others. That was wonderful, isn’t it? When I saw Satsang, first Satsang in a quite different way in a bit like this in an official way. You give is said everything in one Satsang that I had to hear all those 29 years. It was extraordinary.
Rick Archer: packed it all into one Satsang.
Ganga Mira: Yes. Yeah. So
Rick Archer: interesting.
Ganga Mira: Well, it’s my experience. I don’t know.
Rick Archer: I think I heard you say in one of your soft songs that I was listening to, that it took you about, correct me if I’m wrong, but this is what I gathered that it took you about 30 years before realization took place.
Ganga Mira: 29
Rick Archer: 29 years. So that sort of sounds like realization took place just around the time that you left to live in Belgium for educating your daughter. Is that about right?
Ganga Mira: Oh, no, no, no, no. You know, 68 till 1997 makes 29 years now.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. Yeah, my math is off.
Ganga Mira: No, no, I was still a seeker, too. I must say I remember in time because anyway, it’s an experience in time. Yeah. I didn’t take it this way. But today I can say in 1987. The search dropped 87. Yeah. But I was I was. And I felt we sought daring to tell myself and but opening it is. So this is it. But, you know, I was in such a good school that I was surely not telling anybody. So but later on, I saw there was still a seeker. Having no search, that was a
Rick Archer: trap. That’s very interesting. It’s interesting, you should make that distinction. There’s, there’s something like that, in my own experience where this there’s this feeling that the search dropped some time ago, I don’t know exactly when, but there’s no longer because I can remember what it was like to just be dying and yearning and gotta have this. And now I feel a great deal of contentment. But I wouldn’t consider myself to be fully realized, or any such thing. To be honest, you know,
Ganga Mira: because of the seeker meaning yeah,
Rick Archer: there’s some seeker the seeker feels a great deal of contentment, I suppose. But there’s still continuous curiosity and inquiry and all that that
Ganga Mira: much, then. But it’s, you know, it’s a great help to know why, to know exactly. Why, and that feeling still to the search is over.
Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s almost like, it’s almost like it shifted from seeking to, to x to an adventure, you know, it’s like, there’s still more to discover, and deeper appreciation to be achieved, etc. But this the sense of gotta find this gotta have it, that that somehow has dropped off. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, I would say, one got an accomplishment. You see, it doesn’t seek after hook. It’s what one hears, don’t seek you, I’ve already that. But the thing is that the seeker is still there. So it still trust the the so called reality of what his mind will suggest. And that is exactly what He will suggest when the search is gone, that there is still a deepening of something beyond or something more interesting, or, as you say, a deep contentment, but it’s still an experience
Rick Archer: it is and there’s there seems to be an experiencer some people speak about their having no sense whatsoever of a personal self anymore. And I can’t really relate to that personally, because I still feel like I have one. Yeah, but um, so I’m just trying to try to be honest about my experience, but that’s where it’s at at the moment.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, it’s been interesting to see that you’re so aware of it. It’s great. So I wonder what is aware? What is this awareness?
Rick Archer: Well, it’s not an easy thing to express in words, is it? But that’s
Ganga Mira: great. So it means you are it could express your objectified. So you are never what you can Objectify.
Rick Archer: No, you can’t step apart from it and say, Okay, here I am. And here’s the awareness, you know, as if the the awareness or some kind of object you could perceive doesn’t work that way. When quite a
Ganga Mira: few people say, I know what’s awareness? I experienced awareness, then it’s an object.
Rick Archer: Yeah, no, that’s not my sense. Yeah. Yeah. A question just came in let’s see what it is. Okay, we Mazal act this. This is from Srini. Ramakrishna in in Chennai. I don’t know if that’s a man or woman but he or she asks, I hear it stressed time, and again by most modern masters, that awakening has nothing to do with thoughtlessness but only to do with waking up to one’s true nature. How important is total and complete cessation of thought and mind to liberation?
Ganga Mira: I would not say that it’s the same you see, you can never mind with no taught. liberation is not to have no thoughts. liberation is no have to care any more about the flow of the mind which can appeal or not, because it has been demystifying the the so called reality of the mind, the mind is seen as unreal, so that there is a flow of total now to good care. First of all, who is there to care?
Rick Archer: So in other words, the mind does what the mind does, which is have thoughts or not have thoughts. But that’s not that’s not relevant to whether one is liberated, that’s
Ganga Mira: an event. It’s relevant in the beginning of the search, because you see, you don’t, you don’t give space to this to this desire for freedom. So it’s good to start to analyze what’s mind by probably in self investigation, some practice of meditation, do that to to have a quieter mind means empty your mind. But the goal is not worth a lot. A mind doesn’t exist if there is no thoughts.
Rick Archer: Yeah, it might be a little hard to function if if you didn’t have a mind. Let’s probe a little bit more into your experience. You mentioned what I think you said, 90, was it 8787 9697? You left the body? Well, 29 years you had this awakening, and 97 right around the time when Papaji left the body? Was it actually coincidental with when poverty left the body or some months apart?
Ganga Mira: I No, no, no, no, no, it was the second he left the body. I tell you what happened. When I first of all, I didn’t know the state of Papaji at the time. And so when I learned is leaving the body. For me, it came immediately that it was an event as important that we’ve met him. And so it created in me an urgency. I have to do it now. Because I know I will never never trust anybody else. You see? So I wonder what suddenly a big dog came? What did I hear from him? After all? Did I hear anything? Right? And it left me in one sentence I always took as a as a tool. Don’t land anywhere. He was telling that. And then that I tell you it went very quick. But I remember the steps. And then for the first time of my life, it shows Obed student I was it I asked but who is not landing? And that was it. So I can tell exactly in time that I had that experience of the disappearance of the concept. I am real, I is real. And yet, the realisation is when you exactly also don’t take this experience for it. You see, I was inspired, I must say, an excellent background with my master.
Rick Archer: An excellent background. What do you mean by that?
Ganga Mira: I mean that whatever I could hear from him. I had enough time to probably that he tend to in my cells that that the proper moment they came in did that effect.
Rick Archer: So yeah, so it just finally came to fruition at that time. Yeah. It’s very interesting. Is it something that at his death, you should read then have the big shift? I know when my father died, I didn’t know that he had died that day. And and I was having this incredibly blissful day and I was thinking what is going on? Why am I so amazingly blissful. And then later on, I found out he had died that day. And I wondered after whether there had been some kind of connection between me and him so that when he was released from his mortal coil, I experienced some kind of release at the same time. Sure, sure, so I wonder if somehow Papaji is Maha Samadhi in and of itself was a catalyst for a you’re
Ganga Mira: probably because you see the urgency and the the knowing I cannot go anywhere else if I cannot, to whom I will ask them. You see, I knew that will be not available anymore. So that created for me this
Rick Archer: Yeah. And so how would you characterize your experience prior to that day, day to day, you know, going through your day, what was your subjective interaction with life like, compared with after that day when that realization had taken place?
Ganga Mira: There it there is nothing in common. Absolutely nothing what I thought was real, but still, I could not. There was somewhere lack of of something, were still very peaceful. And I had no more questions about knowledge and what not, and I could understood Master, I could even tell the same answer, as he was telling. I mean, I knew the subject well. But it is not, you cannot compare. It’s uncomfortable.
Rick Archer: So that was before you knew the subject, you could, you could speak the words and so on. But then after,
Ganga Mira: well, I want to say first that we speak, then now have a story, because in fact, the realisation is that there is no before and after, right, right yet, yet. I agree that well, after you know, I was like, so, so overwhelmed by great gratitude that I could not move. And I think at that time, it was a great blessing also to have been a loan in Belgium, in Brussels. And so I stayed, I think two months. Sitting and I could not stop writing. And and so I ever diary, and of revelations, knowing very well that I will not take the revelations for it, but I could not help, you know?
Rick Archer: Just wanted to express it.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, yeah. It was too too strong.
Rick Archer: Did you ever publish that?
Ganga Mira: No. it’s in I never read it again.
Rick Archer: You could publish it sometime.
Ganga Mira: I don’t mean.
Rick Archer: Yeah.
Ganga Mira: When I’m.
Rick Archer: So as you know, these days, there are hundreds of people running around, offering Satsang. And they may come they may come from different lineages, but a lot of people use that word. And I don’t know if I’ve ever actually had anybody on the show who defined carefully what Satsang actually is or what it does. So, could you give us a good clear definition?
Ganga Mira: Yeah. Satsang can be resumed in in one word, there is looking like a guide a finger, who will who put out the demand of someone who is there who must be a seeker after tours or he wants to liberate himself from Watson rear. So, the Satsang is exactly this pace offered to me an occasion to to awaken to one’s own self, and the head some help may be there. But it will not be to a better understanding to it happens that way. It will be to rooting out the basic because there is only one concept. I am born. I’m born. Yeah. I’m somebody. So and so it is again and again indicated this way, but the seeker will understand in different levels of his seeking that depends on on I don’t know that depends on this own opening on his own fire on his own real priority.
Rick Archer: receptivity maybe. What is the actual Sanskrit mean of Satsang?
Ganga Mira: Yeah, the company of the tooth company. In fact, being yourself you know, and you is with the company, it’s being yourself.
Rick Archer: So what you just said is that pretty much how Papaji would have defined it also.
Ganga Mira: Oh, probably would have a better formula he was. It would have already halted all to our talk
Rick Archer: would you say, both in terms of your own soft songs and as a general principle is Satsang primarily for spiritually mature souls, if you agree that there is such a thing, those at the end of their seeking? Or is it for pretty much anybody, regardless of their?
Ganga Mira: Anybody’s welcome? And soon, very quickly, they will see if it fits them or not. And those who acted servant would look for them.
Rick Archer: Yeah. perseverant. That’s those who persevere? Yeah, yeah.
Ganga Mira: Yeah. It means it fits their demands, or at least more and more they see, that’s what I want.
Rick Archer: Yeah. So, you know, you might say, though, those who have a fairly bright fire to use that term we’ve been using. So you mentioned a minute ago, that it’s not so much about any intellectual understanding that is transmitted during Satsang? It’s, it’s more it’s deeper than that. So would you say that it’s, there’s some kind of transmission of silence? No, that takes place or some some sort of transmission? Or? Or? I don’t know, attunement, that takes place.
Ganga Mira: No, no, I would not say so. Okay,
Rick Archer: so what are what are the mechanics, then we’ll come
Ganga Mira: but I don’t leave it like this. I must say that. Surely, I come. Quiet. I’m quiet even to it. I speak. But and I respond to what’s coming. Now, as Papa G, I see in the beginning of a Satsang. Sometimes I’m really, very often I’m inspired, even if it is short, to say something, after the silence, something comes, which can expire or give it to him or her particular team that day. But you see, Satsang is not to specially experienced silence, because then it’s a circumstantial silence that you can also have at any time in the life, I would love that those who still think they have a mind. See, that is exactly because they think that the mind is real, that they are in trouble. So they should hear. And that is repeated. Dudley said in Satsang, that, who was whose mind, if you see that I was the mind can disappear as a concept. Everything is glued to eye means the mind and the body. I just can’t sit there unreal, even though they appear? I don’t know.
Rick Archer: I think I’m following you. And so, what you just said is something that is attempted to be conveyed or, or appreciated that you would like people attending Satsang to appreciate that, that which they take to be real, that which they take to be themselves is ultimately not real? And is not ultimately who are what they are. Is that what you tried to just say?
Ganga Mira: Yes. And I like to direct to the hood, because it is of I don’t say of no use, because I use myself for years. But finally, you have not to to try to see that this concept isn’t real or this or this or this, you have if you solve the root for the rest will follow. So I tried to show that this is very important.
Rick Archer: And so how do you go about getting people to the route?
Ganga Mira: According to what they say I try always to throw them back where they already are.
Rick Archer: So So for instance, if they were to say, Well, I’m very unhappy, because this and that is happening in my life or something like that. Then you might say what,
Ganga Mira: to whom belongs this unhappiness? Is it not to your mind or body? You see your body mind you see this experience? So why you and you know, this is a bit such a traditional teaching, and sometimes it’s more Like, then strange answer, which may who thought it depends? Sometimes it’s a bit more with explanations and sometimes not. Yeah, it’s always to try to hold out the first have to indicate to indicate that it is the idea of the tuber. And not whatever happens to the body or mind.
Rick Archer: And and how’s that going for people? I? To what extent do you feel like people in Satsang? come away with a shift in their appreciation of who and what they are? That actually sticks, you know, that actually somehow lasts for them?
Ganga Mira: If it is an experience, it will never last. I don’t know about what but if they come it must, they must be attracted by something.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And do you advocate or recommend or encourage anything for people to do? When they’re not in Satsang? Throughout the week, like, I don’t meditate or, or any kind of any sort of daily routine that might be conducive to, to their quest?
Ganga Mira: Yet, first of all, I would say beyond fire, it’s like to fall in love with somebody you see, whatever you do that is that somebody in you, which in EU invades you in the same way as Liberation’s in the same way, falling in love? No, it is of such a value. All the rest. Okay, maybe you didn’t taste enough. So go and taste and still keep contact with Satsang. Maybe one day you will see your precious cities to hear this indication of you are that? And if you don’t believe it, it’s because you still trust your mind. Fire?
Rick Archer: Fire? Yeah. So I guess that one way of phrasing the question would be, you know, every time you come to Satsang, maybe it throws a log on the fire, you know, and maybe makes it brighter. But maybe throughout the week when you’re not in Satsang. Or if you can only come twice a year or something like that. Is there something where you can keep putting, putting more wood on the fire to keep it stuck?
Ganga Mira: Of course, we have the luck to have fantastic books of the same lineage, you see. Buddha’s Hamana Maharishi Papaji first because it is to him that I knew all this. I love that discovered not long ago Siddharameshwar Maharaj. You see, this is fantastic indications press all these channels and masters. Yeah, you read one line, you get inspire, you know, Oh, great. It is you, you see, and YouTube. What a fantastic technique now to YouTube, people keep contact. And then Satsang your life at times. You see.
Rick Archer: There’s a woman in Australia, whom I’ll be interviewing in July, who was watching lots of YouTube videos of Mooji. Really like Mooji, who of course, was a poverty student. And at one point, you know, just watching YouTube video, she had this profound shift. And she said she just laughed and laughed and laughed for hours, like pounding her leg at the realization that, you know, she was not who she had thought she was, you know, there was just this really significant shift. So YouTube can do it.
Ganga Mira: Yes, anything you see, because after all, it is just to wake up, which is a strange way to say, to wake up to what you already are. Yeah. So you know, I don’t I understand we speak and myself, I have to say before or after and shift. In fact, there is nothing like that. But we have to speak so it’s not even a shift. It’s to see that we shift it and shift it in a base which was a way from what is what I am is always there.
Rick Archer: Yeah, well, it’s one thing to say that or to read in the book and it’s another thing to actually realize it and you know, I mean, I just just this morning or maybe it was last night I was listening to one of your songs and you were going through the thing of you know of this number of people only this many go this far and only this many go this far and only this many go on the razor’s edge and only this many don’t fall off the razor’s edge and and only only a tiny fraction actually ended up you know, realizing the self. So it’s one thing to hear these words or to read them in a book. It’s Another thing to add until you know to realize, okay, you know, there was never any time when I was not that, but that’s a concept until it becomes a living reality. So that’s the trick, it seems to me is for that to become a living reality and not just a concept.
Ganga Mira: No, I agree. But that’s why we speak of realisation in fact, isn’t it? Yes, there is this difference. But you see, there is a difference when actually, the eye doesn’t feel yet even two years no more search? Well, it knows everything that has never quite been questioned so far. Even to it looks like that one questions. No, he has not touched it strange enough. But it’s like that, because if he questions once, who am I? And keeps quiet. Where this eye disappears, you see, you will understand that whatever comes and goes, it is not what it is. It’s just a play the waves of the ocean. And you see it once it is enough. You don’t need to repeat. I am myself I am that I’m that I’m that.
Rick Archer: That will just be chatter. Now, I’ve heard you say many times, and I’m sure papacy Papaji said many times this phrase keeps quiet. And I mean, the average person, I think if they think, Alright, I’m gonna keep quiet, then they sit there for a moment. Next thing they know, it’s five minutes later, and their mind has been going all over the place. They haven’t kept quiet. So So what do you really mean by this phrase? Just keep quiet.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, first of all, Papaji also was not really understood when he said keep quiet. But it’s always a good indication even if you understand that so well, because at least you give a space to your mind. No, the real keeping quiet cannot be addressed to eye to eye am seeker cannot be addressed. I in the mind means the same, cannot keep quiet Oh, it is temporary. So when Master says Keep quiet, it says it go to the source of I keep quiet. At least for a moment. So whenever the mind comes back, because of course, the ocean waves as waves. You don’t grasp it for once you keep quiet, then, then you’ll realize yourself and it will be seen to you that all the rest are just strong old habits based on the past previous beliefs. But then they are only habits there are no more reason.
Rick Archer: So this is something that one should do repeatedly keep quiet, keep quiet keep keeps coming back to the source back to the source. Right
Ganga Mira: as long it’s true. As long as he feels that his habits are too strong still. Yeah,
Rick Archer: I was thinking about a metaphor for this. And I was thinking it’s like if you say to someone in Calcutta, let’s say, be at the source of the Ganges, you know, or stop the river, let’s say stop the river. It’s a little hard to do in Calcutta, the river has tremendous force. Even if you said it in hardware, you know, stop the river. There’s still a lot of force at that point. But if you said it in Gangotri, if the person can somehow be there, then when the river is first emerging, then it might be easier to stop it or redirected or something, because it didn’t it didn’t acquire this huge force yet.
Ganga Mira: It is only that’s why the keeping quiet cannot be done before you have to go there. And then keep quiet enough.
Rick Archer: So using that metaphor, you somehow have to get to Gangotri the source of the river. And then if you can somehow get back to that point and keep quiet and and stay there, then you’re really living up to what is being advocated by this phrase, keep quiet. Is that correct? Yes. Yes, it thinks. Okay, so maybe that metaphor will be helpful. So again, then, I guess that begs the question. Well, you know, like you said, strong habits. If the mind is like a river, which just has this momentum, and you know, it’s habitually busy and active and so on. How does one actually, I mean, is it sufficient to just sort of have the the intention to get back to the source and keep quiet? Or is there some means or, or method in some way to actually accomplish that? Because I think a person could go on for years with that intention. And still the mind is unruly.
Ganga Mira: Nobody does that don’t think so. They don’t understand. They think that it’s a kind of practice, and that they fall into a state of keeping quiet, which is temporary. And they think it’s real and to more serious practice, they will want the permanent there. Nobody does that. Very few. And those few is because they finally understood the indication you see, that can be done at any time for anybody. One can wake up to that at any time. And anybody can hear that. But you see, we don’t, we don’t do it. That’s why it’s so cold doesn’t work.
Rick Archer: So people just don’t do it. That’s the problem.
Ganga Mira: It don’t do. Because you see, often the concept of Enlightenment is Moshe cherished, that the real Enlightenment. So there is always something obstructing something. This AI which has Sheriff something.
Rick Archer: When you say the concept of Enlightenment is more cherished than the real Enlightenment, do you mean that that sort of people think of Enlightenment is something that they are going to get? And it’s going to be this wonderful thing, and I’m going to have it and I’ll be so wonderful, and I’ll be so popular. And as opposed to the actuality, which is that it’s really a an elimination of this i. So it’s not like something one can ever get. It’s something that eliminates the person who thinks he can get it. I’m a little long winded here. But is that what you’re saying?
Ganga Mira: Yeah, it makes disappear. The concept of reality that I carries. When I disappears, you seen it source? The concept that it’s real disappears, because if I can disappear, it means it’s in time. It is in the mind. It’s part of the mind and not as one things.
Rick Archer: Yeah. I think maybe some people or some people might think, well, wow, she was with Papaji, as close as one can be for 29 years before she got realized. So what hope is there for me, you know, I don’t even have a master or maybe there’s some teacher I go and see once a week or once a year or something. If it took her 29 years, it’s going to take me 29 lifetimes or something. What would you say to those people?
Ganga Mira: The hope is that I see myself a bit I was a very bad student.
Rick Archer: Oh, you’re just being modest. I’m sure you’re you’re a very good student. You’re exemplary you had, you know, you sat under a tree for eight months in the rain or no rain? It was cold. Very few people have that much fire. And yet it took you 29 years?
Ganga Mira: No, no. Okay. When I tell you, there is not a story similar to another one. No, no. One should not. It seems. Once one as an example, you see a kind of, but not in the history, the history will be different for everybody. Yeah. That is beautiful. Hope.
Rick Archer: That’s a good answer. I, I think you’re saying and you would agree that it’s really important not to compare yourself to other people.
Ganga Mira: No, no, no comparison. Even in the teaching. You see if any teaching happens spontaneously. You cannot come copy even your beloved Master. It’s impossible. It’s like that. No comparisons.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully, everybody. I guess we don’t have to elaborate on that point. But I think that’s really important. Because, you know, I’ve done that myself. And I know many people have they think, Oh, if I could only be like him, you know, or he seems to be or she seems to be having this wonderful experience. And I’m not having it. And there’s this comparison thing that can go on for
Ganga Mira: us very nice with the stories of everyone. Maybe it’s to inspire, you see, to to put fire to inspire, but not to copy. That isn’t us to stop there. It can inspire that’s why the books are there. It’s not to copy.
Rick Archer: Yeah, good. Good point. And again, this this thing I’ve been reading last week, this nothing ever happens. Very inspirational. I mean, Papaji was, he was such a remarkable man. I didn’t really know that much about who he is. Yeah, I don’t know if he’s a man anymore who ever was because he’s something other than deeper than that. But what a remarkable life, you know. So interesting just to read about the way he functioned and everything and the sort of spontaneous intuitive. You no way we were even he didn’t know why he was going someplace or anything, but then it turned out to be this perfect situation. Many, many stairs like every day was practically like that with a
Ganga Mira: we are very lucky to have that in books or so now because it inspires so many people.
Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah, it does. So there’s been some discrepancy, like, for instance, in things David Godman had said, about whether Papaji actually sent people out to give shots on, you know, or whether they just took it upon themselves to do so. Do you have any feelings about that?
Ganga Mira: I, I prefer to speak of myself. It never sent me anywhere.
Rick Archer: Except to buy vegetables or something. Yeah, so you don’t really have any comment on all the people who have been out?
Ganga Mira: Thing is perfect. Because you see, when people teach, it means they have been struck by something. And whatever, people if they follow them, it means it’s what they want also, so everything is perfect. I mean, who cares? And the one wants really, what my master said, you will find ourselves. Yeah,
Rick Archer: I kind of get that sense of there’s so many teachers these days, and maybe they differ in their in their clarity, or the, you know, the, the way they teach or the quality of their teaching or something. But it’s there’s a saying, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, it’s different strokes for different folks. So
Ganga Mira: and you know, many people also they need to be healed, they need to be loved, they need to be protected, then there are also many for them. And then maybe when they have enough loved feel, they feel like that maybe they will hear something different. They want to wake up to the to nature, we never know everything is perfect.
Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s really good. I agree. And everything means everything. I mean, no matter what a person is into that, it may be just a transitionary phase for them. They’re getting what they need. And if they’re not, then they’re not going to stay there. They’re gonna go and do something else.
Ganga Mira: So why not? Would you say if they want to go to hell, they also go to hell
Rick Archer: have that experience Perfect. Good way of looking at it. Gangaji once said that she was told by Papaji back in the day that people coming to her were very well prepared and that there wasn’t much she needed to do or say when they showed up that they were being sent to make way for the global awakening. So there’s two parts of that question. One is that people who come for Satsang are, are very well prepared, perhaps and there isn’t much one needs to do for them to wake up. There’s that part you could come in time, but that also did Papaji talk of a global awakening and
Ganga Mira: pardon? Never, to me. I’d never heard that I never heard about global.
Rick Archer: Okay. So he didn’t have any grand vision for the world undergoing some big change or anything like that.
Ganga Mira: You know, I think in the 19 in the years, 90 of luck now, he wanted to offer them to more people, which has been done right, and is sent even messengers, whatever they take themselves for. And this has been done to spread to spread. So in that way, yet, but you know, papa, papa G would not have I think it was more spontaneous with him. It didn’t have this intention. I do that for globality. It just did it when the time was like that. And of course, there was a spreading which was not there before. Yeah, yeah. But I’m not of those times. So I didn’t know much. Those years except those I read and I made many of those this time.
Rick Archer: That’s a good answer. There’s a common saying that Papaji is often quoted as having said, which is give up the search and and also things like you know, there’s nothing to do you already have it just be still and he was no doubt you know, in saying this, he was no doubt stating the Absolute Truth, but he also meant that when you’ve made it to Satsang, and you’re sitting with a true teacher, you can finally relax, that your head is in the tiger’s mouth, so to speak, you’ve been caught, you’ve crossed the river, you know. So you’re able to lay down your practices and previous knowledge and all that came before, and just be open and receptive to grace. And that’s what Ramana told Papaji when he came to his door, and you know, because at the time Papaji was a lifelong Krishna devotee, and was reluctant to give up his practice. So this is a little bit of a long question. I’ll just keep going for a bit and then you can respond. So Papaji was, this is again, this continuing question. Papaji was not speaking to the seeker who is still in the heat of seeking, wanting more, you know, spiritual knowledge, or those at the beginning of the journey, or even midway, he told those types to seek as if one’s pants are on fire, you know, so there’s different teachings for different stages of the process. And you know, the questioner here is saying, so So Satsang is the end of the process, the end of the Vedas, the end of seeking the realization that surrender is the only avenue after one has exhausted all strategies for awakening, which is why taking a Masters words out of context, does not do one any good. So she’s saying that the truth of Vedanta is not understandable to the average person, it’s easily misinterpreted. Most are not ready for it. Would you agree with all that or comment on it?
Ganga Mira: I mean, there’s not much to say to add. The thing is, I told you, welcome to everybody to Satsang. When I say Satsang, it may be the direct indication, you see, but those who don’t feel it’s not for them, they will go by themselves, they will go somewhere else where they feel it’s more understandable. It’s more than a thing for the for that time, and others they stay. So we don’t even need to seal those things. It happens naturally.
Rick Archer: Yeah, but you would sort of agree with that, even though it’s not necessary to say it
Ganga Mira: like when it is labeled so much because then it’s like the sailor selected once we will fall in these archetypes again of selected ones. I don’t like it. It’s for every one who cares. Yeah, yes. And those who don’t feel attracted, they will drop and find something else.
Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s a good point. Because if we went by what she said and that question then people who were at Satsang might feel like well, I’m the mature No, no, I am almost finished. All these all these beginners go
Ganga Mira: do was almost finished. They can stay years after the end of their masters and was finished and they are never finished. So no, no, Let’s cooperate.
Rick Archer: Okay, good point. One thing that you often hear I mean, don’t hear very much in Vedanta, or in you know, the non dual teachings is much talk of devotion. And yet, in reading, you know about Papa John’s life and yours for that matter. You know, there’s a lot of talk of God, divine devotion, seeing Krishna seeing other gods, you know, there was that story when you, you you in poverty went to Bryn divan, you’re both dancing and ecstasy in the streets and so on. So what what role would you say that devotion has to play in this whole realm of spirituality?
Ganga Mira: First of all, for either the devotion, you see, is towards the truth, to hear, to be to love and to love the guides that you still need, because he will bring you you trust you will bring you to the to that devotion. And there is no self inquiry if you don’t have devotion for it. If you have not devoted to the one who tears about it, it’s so much where it goes together. I don’t think it’s possible otherwise.
Rick Archer: But then devotion doesn’t just mean sort of determination or fixity on one’s teacher or one’s path. It also means great feelings of love and bliss. And, you know, that kind of thing that you read about if you read the Srimad Bhagavatam, or other devotional texts, you know, the bhakti sutras and, and all that said, and it seems like Papaji was a great devotee, I mean, hear these stories of his, his love for Krishna and, you know, prostrating in front of Ramana Maharshi his picture and there was nothing flat or dry about it. seemed that seemed a very heart oriented kind of experience.
Ganga Mira: Yeah, but come on. He said also to him. That is the devotion is God did not hear now. What’s that? So? Am I not told or so Papaji is that God, your devotion is now when it was not Right. So all those are experiences which come of course, why not? It is like wonderful Tahfiz of yogo and self calm and love me love me more and more. It’s worth you see, but there are experiences. So we should not be washed away also, even to what a blessing, but their experiences now.
Rick Archer: Yeah, I guess that’s a good point. They come and they go. In fact, that’s a famous story of Papaji that, as I recall hearing it that he was late for, for showing up or something to see Ramana and Ramana said, were where you said I was playing with Krishna? And he said, Well, is he here now? And no. So it was kind of pointing to that, which is always here.
Ganga Mira: Because of that he could finally you know, keep quiet. Yeah, he’s life and nothing has happened. Everything happens there.
Rick Archer: Yeah.
Ganga Mira: You can, one cannot comprehend, isn’t it? It’s full of expressions, and it is quite nice itself at the same time. Yeah,
Rick Archer: paradoxical. So, I have a question about stages of development. I’ve heard you say many times, there are no stages of development, you know, and, and yet, wouldn’t you say that, you know, Papaji, for instance, was in a more advanced stage of spiritual development than some of the crazy people who came to him, you know, otherwise, why would they come to him? And if he wasn’t in a more advanced stage, why would we go to him and not just some anybody you know, just somebody we found in a bus station as our teacher we want to be with someone who is more spiritually advanced than we are as a teacher as a master,
Ganga Mira: but I don’t consider Papaji having a better or elevated stage it was It woke up to what is is a master of liberation, you see, he he woke up to resume nature and the capacity to deliver the indication so that the adults for all the others they are seekers will do others and have different stages of course have different experiences more or less deep according to their practice before they fire.
Rick Archer: So, then, there are different stages or degrees of depth of you know, realization or not. But he just said that all these seekers were at different stages according to their practice and Papaji was
Ganga Mira: yes, sorry. No, but a seeker it is somebody who has got so many experiences, it can even F eventually a glimpse the experience of Enlightenment as somebody now Master is is is not somebody right? He has demystify that he was somebody even to he appears to us to be somebody you know, so there is no common measure. I don’t know in English, we cannot compare that
Rick Archer: no comparison. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So maybe five stages. Sure. Okay. So seekers have stages but masters are beyond stages. Is that a way of summarizing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so once so once mastery has been achieved, so to speak, or realized then there are no no further refinements there are no gradations like this this master as it is at a more powerful or deeper clearer level than that master that it’s all sort of they’re all in the same club so to speak once mass because
Ganga Mira: first of all, the master would see and that is the great teaching that any stage is unreal and that’s how we can help the one who is asking now about the one who woke up to his own let’s say we realize that he was always that there are no no stages. Now some they teach and some doesn’t. That’s all I can say.
Rick Archer: Some of the teachings up you mean some teach stages and some don’t Is that what you mean? No, no, no some teach and some don’t even teach at all. Yeah,
Ganga Mira: yeah, I guess I’ve not met but it’s possible of course
Rick Archer: Well sure. I’m sure that they’re you know sages are real realize beings who it’s just not their dharma to teach they they just sit they sit in a cave or they sit under a tree or whatever. Oh, dear husband. or their husbands? Yeah, they might be working working in a business or something. We never know. Yeah, no, I know people like that. Something else about this question I wanted to ask, maybe it’ll come back to me. Oh, yeah, just that. Like, you know, if you read different books like The Bhagavad Gita or the Yoga Sutras, and all, you know, they do, they do talk about, you know, types of Samadhi, and stages of the development of the seeker if we want to put it. So I guess that kind of corroborates what you’re saying? You said, for seekers? Yeah. There are stages, but for one who has gone beyond all that, no more stages? Yeah. Okay. Just to reiterate. I heard you saying one of your set songs that you didn’t you didn’t make much of the notion of Vasanas that Vasanas? Or how have you defined Vasanas, but that Vasanas could be in any way a deterrent or an obstacle to realization? Let’s just discuss that for a little bit. Yeah.
Ganga Mira: Because I know that it is in the mind and have a seeker or even teachers out there to tell, First, remove your Vasanas or make them sad vehicle so pure that they quieten, and all that, and then you will realize, but you see, I don’t believe in this God will work which will never come. And first of all, you have to believe that somebody as is real, to verify that, oh, it is exactly because that’s somebody’s beliefs is impure of you that there is a problem. So we have to, again, question but who is this i with this concept, other than to start to clean it? And if it is unreal, then what was the use? Or the energy and all the life went on?
Rick Archer: Well, let me take an extreme example. Let’s say you go into a psychiatric hospital for the criminally insane. And you sit down with a group of psychotic, violent people, you know, just to take a really extreme example. And, you know, and then can contrast those people with the people who come to your Satsang. And Portugal. I mean, when you say that the people who come your Satsang in Portugal are much more receptive, much more sort of able to hear what you’re saying, than the psychotics would be. And so for the psychotics, it might be valuable to attenuate some of their vastness to sort of purify and clarify and, and you know, just the become a more sane person as in the direction of being able to appreciate. So yeah,
Ganga Mira: doubt about it. But you see, this is not my job. I’m sure that a few compassionate, beautiful people do that. But I can’t do that. It’s not into my capacity. I am just good at this. That’s our that’s what I do. But others, I’m sure, and I hope it is done.
Rick Archer: Oh, yeah. I’m not suggesting that you go into a psychiatric hospital.
Ganga Mira: I explained that people will be there to help them, you know?
Rick Archer: Yeah, sure. That was the reason I brought that up is to show that now there’s an example of people who have a heavy load of Vasanas people who are, let’s say, really crazy. There’s a lot of impurity, and you know, and that and perhaps if, and traditionally it said that, you know, well sattwic Nature is more conducive or more receptive to awakening then tamasic nature and negative nature. And so, yeah, that kind of leads some credence to the notion that it might there might actually be some value and purification in the direction of being more worthy of are more receptive to.
Ganga Mira: That’s the thought. I think that it is when you are well hodzic men were passionate that you want to finish off things. Yes. So already the tamas it’s to it is so obscure that you don’t even have a space to of course, to this idea of Enlightenment, that is true and they need some other help. They are clouded over. Yeah, that is of course if we go there you see. Now the sattwic people are known not more help than the Hijazi one because they have so centrally or comfortable or peaceful, that they have no more fire to question what
Rick Archer: But I mean, you’re a pretty sattwic person, but you had a very bright fire, you know, so,
Ganga Mira: but that was hot Jesse? I think so.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, what they said, go ahead.
Ganga Mira: I don’t want to so to say you have to be Hijazi called this or that. I just want to say that about this self inquiry, it crosses the gunas. You see it crosses those tendencies except the tamas. Okay, one will be touched by Grace even then, that is, of course, more rare,
Rick Archer: more rare. Yeah. So there’s this saying, which I often quote, by some Zen teacher, he said, The Enlightenment may be an accident, which might be the equivalent word for grace. But spiritual practice makes you accident prone. So, you know, they say that rajas destroys tamas, and sattwic destroys rajas. So it seems that there’s always a possibility of someone with a lot of tomasik quality, of course, awakening, but the probability seems to improve as one moves towards sattwa.
Ganga Mira: But I don’t agree that the sattwic people have more chance. I don’t maybe know this, because we are in Cali yuga. You know, so. Now we’re live here. Even now in India? You know, no, I don’t think that the sattwa helps the sattva will help to F Samadhi to have marvelous bliss, full of a peaceful state for longer than the normal experience and all that, but then what? They are still somebody there. Yeah, and they have to practice to maintain that. So nothing is real. It’s not worth
Rick Archer: good. I do know that I’ve met people who are just kind of fanatical about sattwa and others, oh, boy, I have to be so careful not to eat this and, and not to do that. And, and there’s, there’s sort of this obsessive, obsessive quality, you know, which becomes a hang up in itself
Ganga Mira: becomes a concept again, you see, and Satsang is to remove concepts. Yeah. Otherwise, when we will be when we leave it, a moment, a time freed from concept, to fulfill the concepts Tell me
Rick Archer: a couple of questions came in. This is from Paul in Portland, Oregon. He said, I have recently begun this inquiry who am I? The process seems so mysterious and nebulous. You know what nebulous means nebulous means vague, like a cloud. And I longed to understand it, so I can do it correctly. How does inquiry work? And finally, a little bit more on his question, how can one have confidence they’re doing the inquiry in the way that the lineage of Ramana Papaji etc, teaches
Ganga Mira: us to confront with, with a master with Satsang life? Because you see, to reply like this, indirectly, of two words, he can read better in very good books, it commoner has explained it so well. Papaji to so if he still asked us to come. Yeah.
Rick Archer: Well, he’s in Portland, which is not far from Ashland, which is where Gangaji lives and so maybe he could go, he likes pardon. Yeah.
Ganga Mira: He feels like
Rick Archer: okay. Here’s another one from Durga in London. She asks, Could you please tell me your views about depression, and whether it’s still possible to awaken if one is in extreme suffering
Ganga Mira: is just a concept that one has swallowed?
Rick Archer: Well, you know, I mean, it can also be a biochemical thing that one’s brain chemistry is often one
Ganga Mira: concept, because one believes is a body and mind. You see, so, I will tell her, whatever you can describe, it’s not you. Let, let her make this neti neti, not this not that I am depressed, I feel it deeply in my heart or body or mind. I can know it, I am not that it will happen.
Rick Archer: help to lift her out of the depression.
Ganga Mira: Yes. See that? After all, it’s an object. It is an experience like another experience if but one gets attached to a few experiences you see, because it gives them according to their past happy or not happy past. It gives them a sense of personnel exists stance. And this is the seeming drama.
Rick Archer: What did Papaji have to say about bliss about a Nanda? He seemed like a very blissful man. And and you yourself in your own exclusive? Pardon?
Ganga Mira: Not all the time.
Rick Archer: Not he wasn’t no all the time.
Ganga Mira: Maybe would not be happy that I replied that. But that’s not all the time.
Rick Archer: Yeah.
Ganga Mira: Unless the bliss which is spoken by the wise men means you cannot objectify what it is, you see, it’s peace, it’s bliss, it’s your, of course, there is tremendous joy. But it happens this way, sometimes and another with some I cannot accept experiences of bliss as real.
Rick Archer: So bliss is necessarily like a wave on the ocean. It’s the ocean itself isn’t blissful in its nature.
Ganga Mira: But you can say, but then it will never express by bliss. Those who speak of bliss, they speak of that expression, isn’t it?
Rick Archer: Yeah, but there can also be this underlying sort of fulfilment or contentment or happiness, which seems to just to persist, regardless of the surface fluctuations? You know,
Ganga Mira: I don’t believe that you can objectify yourself. These are expressions already. Maybe deep. They go on changing? And
Rick Archer: how about your own experience? Do you experience? Do you feel ever feel depressed? Or any negative emotions like that?
Ganga Mira: Depressed? Surely not. Because the search has gone from the mind you see. So negative emotions? What do you mean said sometimes I react to my circumstances with the body mind. The thing is, the confusion is gone. That’s our, but I’m just a natural human being.
Rick Archer: That’s good. And even when you’re feeling sad, is it all consuming it’s like, you know, like, with some people, they might be so overshadowed by it, like just sadness, you know, completely. That’s my world. If you have a wave of sadness, down with their waves on the surface of something much deeper.
Ganga Mira: It’s not lived like that. You see, because I don’t think there is separation anymore. The sense of separation is not there. So in that way, I may say when I’m sad, I’m sad. And when I’m not sad, I’m not sad. And it doesn’t give more doubt. So have talked about, oh, I was identified, or, Oh, that was not the truth, or that is gone. So
Rick Archer: So you’re just living naturally.
Ganga Mira: It looks like,
Rick Archer: yeah. I read in, this is a strange question, maybe and you don’t even have to answer it if you don’t want. But I read in, in David Goggins book that John Klein thought that Papaji was dangerous and warned students away from him. And I found that a little puzzling, because, you know, from what I know, of John Klein, and he seemed like a very, you know, enlightened man. So what was his problem with Papaji?
Ganga Mira: Oh, you should have asked him.
Rick Archer: I didn’t get the chance.
Ganga Mira: He was surely a gentleman.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s a tactful answer. Okay, so we’ve covered quite a few things. What haven’t we covered? I know another question will probably be coming in in a minute. But is there anything that you would like people to hear or know, that we haven’t discussed so far?
Ganga Mira: I am a bit blank. You give me
Rick Archer: Okay, I’ll try to stir up something. Well, let me ask you this. I know that you have these nice satsangs online I’ve listened to about five of them now. And people can do that. And I also mentioned on your website that you travel so do you actually go around the world still and do satsangs here and there or do you pretty much stay in Portugal now?
Ganga Mira: I permit pretty much staying power to Ghana and yet since two years, I I do a few trips. It’s two. I wanted for some reason I wanted that it is known that important gal Satsang is available and Maybe those who are interested when they see me in some cities, they can come here. And I can visit them again there if there is enough interest. Yeah, I don’t go all over the world, but I travel a little bit. Yeah,
Rick Archer: yeah. Are there accommodations in Portugal if a person wants to come there? Is there a place for everybody to stay?
Ganga Mira: There? Yeah, it’s a bit the weak point because I don’t have an ashram. But everybody so far finds places. Yes. It’s okay. So Okay.
Rick Archer: Sounds like a nice place on the seashore.
Ganga Mira: It is a wonderful why the ocean and quite away from everything, and four times a week Satsang gives a color you know, it’s, it’s nice.
Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s like a regular, almost ongoing thing four times a week. That’s great. Here’s a couple of questions that just came in from Mary. She didn’t give her location. She said, first of all, let’s answer these separately. What does love mean to you?
Ganga Mira: Love means everything. I don’t think the word is sustained. If there was no love means itself, you know?
Rick Archer: So there’s that same relationship? No, you’re sorry, a deeper kind of love. Yeah, like, love makes the world go round. So the world is sustained by love. That was a nice phrase. Do you associate that with with God or the divine when we talk of love?
Ganga Mira: Was this surface reality? You know, with what you are. And you know, when you don’t have a sense of separation, it looks very much like love.
Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, there’s that saying in the Bible to do unto others as you would do unto yourself. And so it would seem that if if you if there’s no sense of separation, then others are yourself and you’d love, you know the others as much as you love yourself. Therefore, not mistreat them in any way.
Ganga Mira: circumstances may provoke some strange things. But I mean, it’s unshakable, untouched, love of reality. No, I use less this word, word love, because there is too much concepts on on it. But of course, I cannot deny what what to say.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Kind of romantic connotations. Usually. This is sort of a related question. From Mary again, you said that all appearances are not real, does this make all life forms? In disposable, you know, lacking value, since appearance, since the world is a mirage? Does that sort of mean?
Ganga Mira: To see, this sentence comes when you realize, now the sentence is heard by your seeker to indicate them the proper to give them the proper indication? Look, look and see if i is real. Because if you apply that, I think there will be very misunderstood behavior, misunderstandings, and completely cuckoo behavior. And excuses sometimes, oh, it’s an rare so I can do whatever. No, it’s rare for body mind. It’s rare for body mind. It has a seeming reality. And so naturally, intelligence goes on with that. It’s a way to teach, it is not the truth. In truth. Everything is real, and nothing is real. So again, we cannot use see comprehend.
Rick Archer: Although if you look at the behavior of bass masters like Papaji, and others, they seem to be very concerned with people’s well being and you know, very compassionate and so on. They don’t just say, Oh, you’re not real. Like for instance, there was some story where some some guy and some German fellow, for some weird reason, drank some laundry detergent, because he thought it was going to purify him or something. And Papaji like, did all sorts of things to try to help him get the poison out of his stomach, and all kinds of things. It didn’t just say, Oh, it’s unreal. Don’t worry about it.
Ganga Mira: That’s what I say. You see, the master is the most wise person. You will not take things this way. It knows very well you see. Everything is really nothing is real, but to say, look, what kind I’m saying goes isn’t real? It’s, it’s a guide guidance. It’s a tool to touch who who thinks is real. Because if you see that even I can disappear as a concept of reality, all the rest is of the same nature. So it’s just an indication it is not the same. All is unreal and all what the Man will understand with all its logic, which will be a disaster. Yes, sure.
Rick Archer: Good. Here’s a couple of questions from a job in Canada. First question, could you please elaborate on the word demystifying the mind which is a phrase that you use very often in thought songs
Ganga Mira: to see that the mind is just an object of yours? And to go back then more easily to the subject? Instead of being mystified by objects and it’s hypnotism generally. to slowly go to the to the root, subject is the subject which is in too close to question.
Rick Archer: So not be so caught up in it? In other words, get get Yeah, yeah. Okay. Second question. Would you please speak a bit more about keeping quiet? We talked about that earlier, but he wants some elaboration, I understand that it is not physical quietness, like not talking? Would you say it is, as the passive experience of the waking state in which the eye is arising as anything else? I don’t think that’s totally clear. But I’m sure you can elaborate on this point of keeping quiet.
Ganga Mira: I didn’t really follow but what is clear is that you keep quiet when one doesn’t grasp the thinking, the movements of thinking power, then you keep quiet, then is there anybody keeping quiet?
Rick Archer: And you said earlier, it’s not like you’re not thinking it’s not like you’re not thinking you will be having thoughts, but you’re not sort of caught up in them or something?
Ganga Mira: Don’t confuse anymore. You don’t confuse anymore yourself for the one who thinks,
Rick Archer: uh huh. So there’s like a discernment, we could say a discrimination between the self and the thinker. Would you say that?
Ganga Mira: Discrimination? No, it’s a fact. It’s, it’s a fact, the confusion disappeared. A discriminative discriminative mind is used on the journey, I would say if one has a journey, you see, you have to know what to follow whatever. But at some point, even this has to be left behind and to be busy with who is discriminating. This is the main the main point, if there is a need
Rick Archer: to know who is who is discriminating, who is saying who is acting.
Ganga Mira: First, to be clear that you will not serve anything with the infinite objects of the mind. Let them be subtle in the mind or in the body. But you have to question the owner of the doer.
Rick Archer: Yeah. And when you really do that, don’t you find that the doer actually is not a doer? Because doing doing implies engagement, activity and so on, and we’re referring to something which is beyond the field of activity, aren’t we?
Ganga Mira: salutely activities endure, they arise from who you are, and they disappear into you who you are sure. The thing is that we make one step away, believing I isolated the first expression, it’s an expression but we take it as the main base, we cannot go prior to ICT looks you see when we are a seeker. So, in Satsang, we hear more and more and when we click or we get read more and more awaken that, oh, that first base we take for granted in fact is a step too much that gives the sense of separation.
Rick Archer: So when one goes beyond that, then one goes beyond separation. Correct?
Ganga Mira: Absolutely. Separation is created only if you believe that the rising of Israel
Rick Archer: and so if you if you go beyond that if you have Going beyond the belief that the rising AI is real, is there still any sense of AI whatsoever or has one sort of landed in a place which is impersonal beyond a sense of AI?
Ganga Mira: First of all, everybody is already himself. So, everybody, the only thing is, he believes that AI is real. So he wants to experience who he is, as he experiences everything else, that is the throbber know what you said, the sense of AI when it rises is there, but it is known it is demystified, there is no more confusion that has in it, and that body mind is what you really are, that is gone. Particularly.
Rick Archer: Yeah, so what you just said that is that one can, words are always limited in the way you have to express things, but that this state of realization, or Enlightenment, or whatever you want to call, it is not going to be an experience, like any other experience that we’ve ever had, it’s not an experience, it’s beyond experience,
Ganga Mira: we can even remove the word beyond because it gives this concept that you have to go somewhere or you are not there now, yeah, you see, you have it there now, but because we believe that I somebody is weird. We, we we have the habit to objectify or whatever to experience it. So. So it looks that we can never attain what we are failing. Ah. Now, to realize what is already here, we just have to make this appear this, this, I hope going back to its source. I go back always there you see, to remove the concept of prior and beyond, which is fantastic at some stages. But in fact, they’re also they can also create a concept, we should be removed from concept.
Rick Archer: It’s difficult to talk about this stuff without using words like that, just because the whole the whole language is built upon objective experience, you know, and so you keep, you have to like be very careful what you say when you try to describe these things, and you never quite do it properly. And I don’t mean you I mean one, you know me or anyone’s
Ganga Mira: Yes, sure, sure. But also it is the have to say, the passion or the the compassion of the teacher to point out if he sees that the word comes from some places. To to point out, oh, you have to collect here. But the same word can be expressed. Oh, to say, we sold a base? And then it’s right.
Rick Archer: Yeah, for instance, I was listening to one of your songs. And at the end, the children come in, and there was one where you you were saying to the children now You please sit over there so I can see you. And now you know, that seems very dualistic. There’s a you and they’re seeing and there’s here and there’s there. But that’s the way language works, you know, and that and you’re communicating to people in a relative sense, you want the children to move around, you know, words are inadequate, to describe the reality. And that we use dualistic words for the sake of practicality, you know, please pass the salt or, you know, go there and buy this and you know, how you do, what is your name, things like that, but that doesn’t really hit hit the depth of the reality. So, want to just elaborate on that a little bit?
Ganga Mira: Yes, first of all, it is impossible to describe what he is because the mind comes from what is and disappears there. So is no more than when it could have was to cling and tell. You know, it disappears is just dying there. So bad in Satsang. The verbs which are used are not for the word but for the the Dogit the indicates something else. That’s different. Yeah.
Rick Archer: What was the word before he said indicate that for the target Did you say
Ganga Mira: it does a target, target the word it gives an indication to follow so you don’t throw the finger but the indication that it follows. It throws. Yeah, points. So it’s just a pointer. Exactly the Om pointers,
Rick Archer: which, of course, is books and everything else. It’s, you know, we need words to communicate. But that’s
Ganga Mira: why you see, it is, I would say needed to, at some point come to a Satsang life. Yes, you have to be confronted by, by a point of a life that may shake you own convictions of your dots.
Rick Archer: Okay, good. Well, that’s a good point to end on. Perhaps it’s an invitation for people to come to a live Satsang either years in Portugal or?
Ganga Mira: Yeah, where where this is indicated? It is important. Yeah. Yeah.
Rick Archer: So then we’ve discussed this a little bit, but you’re, you’re based in Portugal near the seashore. And people can come there and you do Satsang, four times a week. And they can find out more about that on your website, which I’ll be posting a link to, and, you know, make arrangements to come there if they want. And in the meanwhile, there are quite a few songs on your YouTube page that people can watch. And is there anything else you’d like people to know in terms of you haven’t written a book yourself, right?
Ganga Mira: No, no, nothing. There is one in Hungarian but I think it’s very localized.
Rick Archer: So if anybody really wants to read that they can learn Hungarian. Okay,
Ganga Mira: now my friends are transcribing some Satsang and nobody to take time through.
Rick Archer: Yeah. Good. Well, this has been very enjoyable. I really, I really appreciate. Oh, thank you very much opportunity to speak with you.
Ganga Mira: Yes, yeah. It’s a pleasure. It was a very good moment with you.
Rick Archer: Yes. And likewise, I really enjoyed this. So let me make a couple of general concluding remarks. I’ve been speaking with Ganga Mira, I’ll be making to her webpage, as I always do with with guests and so people can follow up with her and explore that webpage. That website and, you know, carry on, follow up with what she has to offer. This, as I mentioned in the beginning, and as most of you know, is an ongoing series of interviews. So if you’d like to explore past ones there, come to batgap.com. Go to the past interviews menu. If you’d like to see who’s scheduled coming up, there’s a future interviews menu upcoming interviews. You can be notified by email have new ones if you wish by just filling out a little form on the up on the email link that you’ll see. This also is offered as an audio podcast in addition to video so if you’d like to subscribe to the audio podcast, there’s a link for that you can get it on iTunes or Stitcher, those different podcast platforms. So thank you very much for listening. You’re watching and I will see you next week and thank you again, Ganga Mira, it’s really been an honor to speak with you. That’s been nice.