Cynthia Lane 2nd Interview Transcript

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Cynthia Lane 2nd Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually awakening people. By ongoing, I mean, I’ve been doing them for ten years now. I’ve done over five hundred of them and there’s no end in sight. If you appreciate this interview and would like to check out previous ones, if you haven’t been watching these, then go to There’s a past interviews menu under which you can find all the previous ones organized in several different ways. This program is made possible by the support of people who appreciate it and would like to support it. So if that describes you, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site. And, you know, even a very modest donation makes a difference.  My guest today is my old friend Cynthia Lane. Welcome, Cynthia. Cynthia and I have known each other for almost fifty years, even though neither of us looks a day over forty. And I interviewed her–she was one of my first ones. Well, she was within the first six months of having started BatGap by the summer of–what was it–2010. So nine years ago. And I listened to that interview this week, and I thought it was a really nice account of a very interesting life. All the things Cynthia had done with great sincerity and dedication and good results. So if you enjoy this interview, you might want to go back and listen to that one, too. You might even want to listen to that one first and then listen to this one. But in any case, I’m going to read something Cynthia sent me that briefly summarizes the kinds of things we talked about in the first inteview.   She says, “From my earliest memories, God was always at the center of things. After exploring a number of teachers and modalities in the great spiritual garden of the late ’60s San Francisco, things really geared up when I learned the Transcendental Meditation technique in Berkeley in 1967. TM’s gifts were unmistakable and I began a thirty-year career of devoted service to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Vedic tradition. This encompasses many years of teaching TM in the US, Europe and Asia, and lots of time simply meditating, including seven years in a convent-style setting. All this yielded vast personal and spiritual growth which remains fully integrated into my life, a gift that keeps on giving. Towards the end of this period, I studied and shared several healing modalities, especially cranio-sacral therapy. This deepened my experience of the body as energy and light, and helped me discover the body’s huge role in lasting and comprehensive healing. In 1996, my path led me to the indigenous traditions of the West, especially the Lakota. I was blessed in countless ways by the great Lakota holy man, wisdom keeper and Sundance leader Nacha Wa-Anata.

Cynthia Lane: Through him, I received a personal pipe, a precious and powerful source of inspiration, healing and transformation, and was able to participate in life-changing Lakota ceremonies, including the Sundance, for many years. As a result, I opened to a profound and intimate relationship with the Earth and her healing and nourishing gifts, and learned to embrace life on Earth with a grounded joy and openness that I had never known before. Most importantly, I learned to embody and live the boundless consciousness I had merged with through the Vedic teachings, and find the same infinite Self everywhere and in every one.  Through this time, I gradually realized that I was here, not only to help people merge with the Infinite in their awareness, but also to help them include their bodies in the journey. In simplest terms, this means helping our cellular reality or belief systems shift from identifying as density, to self-recognizing as divine Light or FirstLight, as I call it. We truly are just a dream of Light. Finally, around 2012, which would be after that interview we did, because we did that in 2010. Finally, what I now call Grace, the path of Grace, simply showed up for me, initially while visiting sacred sites in France. In essence, I was made aware that our growth is no longer something we have to work at. God/ divine Love/divine Light is so powerfully present now, that all we need, all we have to do, is open and receive it, and it will take care of all that we need for spiritual and human fulfillment. Since then, many divine gifts have downloaded to share with others and to support this effortless form of growth. While remaining endlessly silent and utterly unlocalized, this magical mystery tour of a life is a sacred and joyous pilgrimage.  Cynthia has also been a professional writer, which you can kind of tell when I read that. She’s a good writer.  Thank you. So are you. Thanks. Never professional, though. So we can actually start perhaps by unpacking that last paragraph: You know, finally, around 2012, the path of Grace simply showed up. I could ask you some questions about it. Or you could just take it from there, if you want to just start saying some things. I’ll do a brief intro. So I had a very strong impulse to go to France. And it was one of those things where everything you need just kind of shows up and is there for you, including a free plane ticket and all that, and a free place to stay and all those kind of miraculous things. And, as I told different friends that I was going to be going there, I got all of these emails saying: “You have to go here and you have to go there and you have to go there.” And every single place that people recommended had some association with Mary Magdalene. So I thought: “Oh, okay. I get the hint. I’m on some kind of Mary Magdalene trail here.” And, and I, you know, I really had never thought about her all that much.

Rick Archer: Because people listen to this all over the world, and some may not be familiar with Christianity, who was Mary Magdalene?

Cynthia Lane: Well, in my experience, she was an expression of divine Light of divine Mother, who was Christ’s equal in terms of the gifts that she was here to share. She was as much about divine Light as He is.

Rick Archer: And according to some people, she was actually his wife.  Okay. Good. Continue

Cynthia Lane: And, you know, I have no background in all of that. It’s–this is just my feeling, my sense of it, my vision of it, of her and the whole thing. At one point, I was in this town in southern France, absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous place called Rennes-le-Chateau, and they have a. . .. In France, Mary Magdalene is considered to be the first evangelist. They don’t think of her as married. But they do see her as being a kind of a saint, because she was the one to bring Christ’s teachings to Europe. For instance, there’s a place, a cave, called La Baume St. Marie, where people say she spent her last years. It became a place of pilgrimage for popes and for kings. So she had a different kind of reputation than we sometimes hear. And there are chapels and cathedrals dedicated to her, including one in Paris. So anyway, so I’m in this very tiny chapel (in Rennes-le-Chateau), which is dedicated to her. And I’m sitting there, and it was as if she just merged with me. That was it. It wasn’t like channeling or anything like that. And it was a surprise, as you can imagine. And in essence, the understanding I got–and I know a lot of people feel a relationship to Mary Magdalene–but I can only speak for my own. In essence, what she said to me was that I am so here for you. And Christ is so here for you at this time of planetary and human transformation. We are so present and we love all–you know, not just me, but everybody–so much that we are full on participating in and supporting this transformation. And then she said you are going to be–meaning all of humanity again, not just me–you’re going to be so happy. You cannot imagine how happy you’re going to be. It’s beyond anything you can imagine, which reminded me of what Maharishi used to say about that, the Age of Enlightenment. And she said, the next steps are not about working hard at it. They’re not about processing every little detail of your life. She said, “We love you. I love you so much that all you have to do is open your heart and receive and I will take care of everything.” So it became what I call the path of Grace or path of miracles, where we just ask, and we surrender it to the Infinite and then it gets taken care of.

Rick Archer: So did this whole thing come to you as maybe like a faint feeling? And you just kind of, were able to kind of verbalize it within your own mind and then verbalize it to others? Or was it actually quite explicit, as you just related it?

Cynthia Lane: It wasn’t faint at all, it was kind of overwhelming. It was: Wow, what was that?

Rick Archer: And it was just, it was just a transmission of the kind of information that you just verbalized.

Cynthia Lane: The merging was a kind of a transmission; the merging was very powerful. And then I had no idea what had just happened or what it meant, for me or for anybody. And then I just, I got an understanding, I’d call it half verbal and half feeling

Rick Archer: OK. I’m completely comfortable with the idea, and I have felt this for a long time, that there are higher beings no longer dwelling in human bodies, who are kind of overseeing or tending to humanity and trying to help us along. But, you know, some people give me flack for that position. They think it’s sort of kooky and strange. So just as a concession to people who might be thinking that way, what could you, how could you explain that there might be this deeper dimension where actual sentient beings have a sort of a higher nature live and help humanity from that, from their, you know, position, their perspective?

Cynthia Lane: Okay. I’ll just explain my picture of the universe. This is what came to me. It all starts from nothingness. Okay? I’m just at this point in my life, I would describe myself as nothing doing nothing. And so there’s this Infinite, which has no content, no boundaries. You can only become It, you can’t know anything about It. And then–I have no idea why–It starts to dream Itself into some form. Some form, you know, the forms of this planet, the forms of other dimensions, and other systems and other universes and other big bangs. But it starts to play in the world of form. In my experience, the very first expression of the Infinite is this FirstLight. And FirstLight really is virtually Infinite. But it has a little bit of something, as opposed to the total nothing of the Infinite or Consciousness or Quantum–whatever we want to call it. And I call it FirstLight, because I just don’t know what else to call it. But it is really pre-photon light; it isn’t necessarily even visual. And so, that FirstLight contains within itself the potential for all that will unfold. Now, that FirstLight, as it begins to unfold its possibilities, It begins to take on more qualities. So, we’d say, in a virtual kind of way, it’s as if that FirstLight now takes on a tint of pink, one huge field of pink, another huge field of pale blue, or another huge field of pale green. I’m talking visually, but of course, It’s. . .I don’t know how else to describe it. But these big fields–these fields, which are, let’s say, the first increased expression of FirstLight–those are, I think, the fields which contain the great teachings–or are the source of the great teachings which have become available, not just to humanity, but probably to other beings and other worlds and so on. So let’s say one of those vast fields is what we call the Christ Light. Okay? And periodically that Light–so it’s not a being, okay?–it’s not a being. It’s a field full of potential that wants to share Itself. And it wants to share Itself with humanity. So it kind of precipitates into form and sends what I would call a representative of Itself, which contains the totality of what It is to share with others. And then you know, we make of it what we make of it here on the planet. So it’s so much more than a limited figure or a limited, you know, particular incarnation. It’s a field that is gorgeous with gifts. And all these fields are just meant to bring people home to the Infinite.

Rick Archer: That’s great. Let me try to reiterate some of it and correct me if I am a little bit off in some of this to really fine tune our understanding of this. So obviously, everybody’s heard, the Bible says, “Let there be light,” when creation comes forth. But usually people think of that as something that happened a long time ago. And you know, then there were, you know, seven days of creation or whatever. And now we have a creation. But what you’re saying, I believe, is that, although it could be something that happened a long time ago, it’s also something that’s happening continuously. If we, if we were to sort of settle down to the ground state of the universe or beyond any manifestation of the universe, we could say we could perceive or cognize a field of light that is the first sprouting or emergence from complete unmanifest nothing. Am I right so far?

Cynthia Lane: Yes. And also, just to add, you know, I think it’s fairly widely held, commonly held now in the field of science, that our Big Bang was just one of a billion. Potential. Call it potential.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Many scientists say that the multiverse idea that they’re just like bubbles coming up in ginger ale, that there are just universes sprouting all the time. And some of them, you know, some of them take, many of them are duds, but you know, there’s an infinite number of them out there. Okay. All right. So then you said about the field being like a field of intelligence. So it’s not just light, which we could shine from a flashlight or something–we wouldn’t think of as having intelligence. But you’re saying that there’s a field of intelligence that emerges.  Yeah. But it’s not sort of a plain vanilla light. There’s a sort of a liveliness to it, or it’s pregnant with possibility we could say. And you said that there are different fields and–I think it was metaphorical–where you speak of colors of a pink one and a blue one. But there are these different fields, as diversification continues, a bit more–the physicists would say this, too–you know, force and matter fields come out, and from those, there’s further diversification. But different fields of potentiality sort of emerged from this unmanifest. Okay. Am I still on track?

Cynthia Lane: Yes.

Rick Archer: Good. And so I think what you also then said, is that when someone like Christ, or Mary Magdalene, or, you know, when some of these great sages who have been born on Earth incarnate, it’s not like sort of so much an individual soul that’s been hanging around decided to take on a body. It’s more like one of these vast fields of potentiality decide–decides is such an anthropomorphic term–but it becomes embodied in human form and lives a life on Earth.

Cynthia Lane: To share Itself.

Rick Archer: To share itself, and to. . .right.

Cynthia Lane: To awaken in one way or another.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And I guess we could say, you know, it’s sort of like that analogy of when the mangoes are ripe, the tree bows down, you know, the branches bow down so people can easily pick them. It would be a little hard for. . .What we’re describing here is so abstract, at least, at the level of fields of light, that the average person would ever be cognizant that any such thing exists. But if such a field of potentiality becomes an embodied being, then we can we humans can interact with him or her.

Cynthia Lane: Right. And that makes for us as human beings, the qualities or the the nature of that divine Light, more accessible to us.

Rick Archer: Accessible. Exactly. Here’s a question that came in already, that might actually be relevant to what we’re saying. I think we can make something of it anyway. And then we’ll keep talking about the things we’re talking about. This is from Akshay in  Puna, India. “Why is it that only a limited number of people on this planet are spiritually awakened or have a spiritual yearning and most of them are still in darkness or are only interested in worldly things?”

Cynthia Lane: I tend to see everybody’s journey as very individual. I feel like we’re all different packages of that same divine Light and so our journey home or awakening comes in different ways, comes through many different routes and at many different paces. I think it’s just that time on Earth, but I see a lot of awakening going on. Which is not necessarily obvious. So for instance, yesterday all over the world, we had these fabulous, you know, climate, whatever we think about climate change, it was still everybody in every country in the world waking up to their commonality.

Rick Archer: Led by children, I might add.

Cynthia Lane: Right. So I think I can’t generalize. I can only say that for lots of us, the messages of our collective beliefs have been very strong, and have not supported us to discover who we are. But we are shifting that. Since the caller, the question person, is from India, I’d like to share an experience I had, which I think is very hopeful. So a zillion years ago–gosh, I can’t remember when–I and a number of people–Maharishi sent us to India to teach TM. And you might have thought, you know, ice to the Eskimos, but not. So there was one place–I was in Jaipur–one place where I was trying to teach. And we found this medical school. And we were very excited about teaching in a medical college because everybody spoke English, right?

Rick Archer: You told this during the first interview, by the way, but go ahead and tell it again.

Cynthia Lane: Oh I did. All right. It just seemed apropos for the moment. So what my experience of India, with with all due respect, was that it was not linear at all. It was, you know–here, if I wanted to set something up like an interview with Rick, I would do ABCDE. And I’d be pretty sure that I get from A to E if I took all the right steps. But in India, I didn’t find that to be the case. I found myself on a thousand detours, talking to lots more people than I ever thought. And it was all, it was challenging. Let’s put it that way. Plus, I was sick, I had amoebas. So I was running a fever. And I was the only one on my team who was still functional. So there’s this professor. He is the very last person that could make the lecture possible. Everything else had, you know, blown up into a thousand pieces. And we’re sitting in this big, big room. In my memory, it’s is almost like a gymnasium. I’m not feeling well, so I know whatever happened was not about me. He is telling me, “So sorry, madam, we can’t do this.” And I’m thinking, oh, you know, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there was–I’m not going to do it on the microphone–but there was this really loud clap or cracking sound in the environment. And in the moment, he changed from saying, “We’re so sorry. It’s not possible,” to setting up the lecture, which we did eventually give. And he did not remember that one second ago, he was saying no.  What I see is that, for those of us who are waking up a little bit more quickly than others, I feel like at a certain point, it’ll be like the hundredth monkey, the collective consciousness will just shift. And it’s not that we’ll all wake up the next day agreeing that there’s one appropriate belief system for everybody. But rather we’ll be able from that place of deep unity, of perfect connectedness, we’ll love everybody. We’ll say: “Wow, my Muslim neighbor, he’s/she’s the best. My Christian neighbor, he’s/she’s the best. My Jewish neighbor. . . you know, it’ll just. . .From that, we’ll just be able to love everything, because we’ll experience everything as an expression of Oneness.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Beliefs are just are kind of the most sort of manifest or superficial expression of things. And they generally are, in most people’s experience, not grounded in experience. So, you know, people believe this, that and the other thing. I remember Oprah once asked Eckhard Tolle what he believed and he said, “Nothing in particular.” You know, because he’s not oriented around belief, he’s oriented around experience. And once you have the experience of the kind of thing that he and we and others are talking about, you know, beliefs just don’t carry as much clout as they do for many people. You don’t take refuge in them. And you treat them more ligtly, like hypotheses rather than certainties.

Cynthia Lane: Absolutely. And, just to encourage again the person who was kind enough to ask a question, I feel like we’re taking everybody with us. Okay. We’re taking everybody with us. And I do believe we’ll reach that point.

Rick Archer: And so I think what you mean by that is that collective consciousness as a whole is shifting, not just the individuals who seem to be keen on awakening at this point or something. And that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that no one can escape the influence of a global awakening that seems to be taking place.

Cynthia Lane: And then there’s that other wonderful idea that’s in circulation about the holographic universe. So when you merge with the infinite, it, it’s shared instantly with everybody else.

Rick Archer: Yes.

Cynthia Lane: And I love that idea.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And, that would make sense if we understand consciousness to be a field, as opposed to just a product of our brains, which is stuck within our skulls. And, and you alluded in the beginning to your experience of yourself, or of consciousness as a field of infinite vastness. It’s not isolated to you know, what we see here as Cynthia Lane.

Cynthia Lane: No. Who is nothing doing nothing,

Rick Archer: Right. And that’s completely congruent with what every wisdom tradition, pretty much on the planet has been saying for thousands of years, you know, that we are the Divine or we are Brahman. We are the universal, whatever. And that recognizing our reality, as such, has a ripple effect throughout everywhere, because you know, because it’s connected to everyone. It’s at their root.

Cynthia Lane: And also just coming back to this idea of beliefs, and if everybody’s on their own unique path home. The way I see it sometimes is, if you could imagine this gargantuan crystal with a zillion facets, and divine Light is shining through that crystal. It’s still divine light, but it’s sharing itself in a myriad number of ways. I mean, look at all the teachers and healers, you know, that are available now. Look at all the ones you’ve interviewed. It’s sharing Itself through all these these different ways, so that everybody can find something that they resonate with, to bring them home.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And that’s actually an underlying philosophy that I have that enables me to do this show, which, you know, which is that everybody resonates with somebody.

Cynthia Lane: Right, right right right.

Rick Archer: And, you know, I’ll, give an interview sometimes, and, you know, some people will email me and say, “Oh, that was the worst one you ever did.” And somebody else will email me and say, “That was the best one you ever did.” Because their particular resonance or affinity with that teacher is different than the other person’s.

Cynthia Lane: Right. Exactly.

Rick Archer: Exactly. Okay. And just to to lay out a little bit more here. I mean–and it’s not that every teacher has–every teacher teaches everything that anyone could possibly need. I don’t–I don’t know if there is such a teacher. Right?

Cynthia Lane: Right. Absolutely not, yeah. But we’re each a different package of the Infinite. We’re each a different package of the Iinfinite. And so we, we get to share that. So we’re the Infinite and we’re divine Light, embodied in this human presence. And this human presence is the dream of divine Light. And we’re dreaming that human presence so that we can share our gifts, but also enjoy this beautiful planet and this world. But we’re all packaged to share it a little bit differently. And that’s like that divine Light shining through the crystal with all its different facets. It’s just one way of thinking about it, so that everybody can find their way home. Some people are more chocolate, some people are more pecan, some people are more strawberry. So they find a strawberry teacher or, you know, coconut teacher or whatever. I’m trying to think of a dessert which would incorporate all three of those. I’m sure there is one. Well, sometimes we need to do a bunch of different things like I did.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: And you did, too.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So a little earlier, when you first started talking about your experience with Mary Magdalene, and, you know, the message that she conveyed of everybody’s gonna be happy, and it’s gonna be a beautiful world and all that. That might sound like a bit of a stretch to people who watch the evening news as I do, and the morning news, and you know who’ve watched the Arctic melting and the, you know, the species dying, and the sea levels rising, and the hurricanes and floods getting worse and all this stuff that seems to just be getting worse and worse. And, you know, we just, as you mentioned, had this climate strike and the young people are saying this is an emergency and you better do something or we’re not going to be around you know what, when we’re your age. We won’t reach your age or our children won’t. So how do you reconcile the evidence that things are not quite so peachy with, you know, the kind of prediction that you received?

Cynthia Lane: Well, there’s two kinds of evidence. First of all, one is the kind that gets communicated on the news. How many good stories do they tell us? I know lots of people who are waking up, who are changing, who are shifting, who are healing, and also lots of people who are creating, not lots, but at least some people, younger people, who have been bringing these fantastic innovations into the world that can support carbon free existence, for example. So there’s a lot going on underneath the surface of the bad news. I also remember something that Maharishi taught. You know Maharishi was a physicist, and he loved to explain things in terms of the laws of physics. And I, I enjoyed that very much. And he talked about a phase transition. And there was one chemical, I think it was like, was it hydrogen?

Rick Archer: Keep going and maybe I’ll remember.

Cynthia Lane: Anyway, so you have hydrogen and then they they make it colder and colder.

Rick Archer: Oh, helium, liquid helium.

Cynthia Lane: It was hit liquid helium.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: And they make it colder and colder and colder and colder. And when they get to a certain point, the helium takes on the qualities of eternity, as much as it’s possible in the physical world.

Rick Archer: It becomes superfluid. There’s no resistance any more. Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: So if you had it going round and round in a circle, there would be no entropy. And it would literally move round and round and round forever. So “frictionless flow” they called it, I think. Now, just before the helium reached that turning point, where it became a totally coherent substance, there was a wild chaotic, bubbling–

Rick Archer: Yeah, turbulence.

Cynthia Lane: Turbulence. And that’s what Maharishi called the “phase transition.”

Rick Archer: Right.

Cynthia Lane: And I think we’re in the middle of that crazy phase transition. And the old systems are breaking down, and those who are attached to them are holding on to them. But I, you know, I can’t guarantee, but I feel that we’ll make it. We will make it to the next state, but we have to tolerate the turbulence, and not get involved and hold the Light. Hold the Light.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah. I have, I’ve always had for decades, I’ve had the feeling that many spiritual teachers see their role as facilitating a smooth a transition as possible. . .

Cynthia Lane: Yes, yes.

Rick Archer: . . .to minimize the suffering.

Cynthia Lane: Minimize the suffering.

Rick Archer: So the transition is inevitable, but let’s let’s make it as, you know, non-traumatic as possible.

Cynthia Lane: Exactly. And, to do that, you know, again, everybody has their own path, some people are much more activist, much more political. I know, for me, the job is to just be the Being. And let that–and I, you know, that’s what I tell other people, too.  Don’t get. . . Just be the Light. Be the Light. Be the Light. Be the Being. Be the Being, and create a core of stability underneath that turbulence as things do fall apart.

Rick Archer: So I guess in all we’ve been talking about–fields and enlivening fields and all that– I guess you might say that, it’s not that, you know, a whole bunch of people getting interested in spirituality and having awakenings and meditating and stuff is just going to magically make everything better. But somehow, they are helping to enliven a field which will make it more conducive for those whose role it is to, you know, devise new technologies to do so. And perhaps also more conducive for those who are, you know, stubborn about change, to–like that guy in Jaipur–to suddenly shift in their thinking and be supportive of it.

Cynthia Lane: And we don’t do it by doing. We do it by just Being.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: Now it’s. . .

Rick Archer: Which is not to say that some people shouldn’t do. Doing is also necessary.

Cynthia Lane: Yes, some people are–that’s their path and go for it, you know. But also–I’ll share another story from Maharishi which made a big impression on me because I was very actively teaching. And we were in India and at a conference and somebody asked Maharish, “Who’s more valuable to you, the very successful TM teacher, who instructs thousands of people,” (and of course, that was my identity) “or one enlightened person?” Well, he laughed. He said, “Oh, one enlightened person.” Yeah. So that brought me crashing to the ground, right? But that’s the thing. It’s by being Being, we support that  perfect coherence, that non-turbulence value. And everybody–and then everybody lives in and acts from there according to their package of Light, according to what they’re meant to do here. You know, what’s interesting to me is I’ve met some younger folk, okay. And I am talking to them. And they understand things that it took me fifty years to grasp. They. . .something is really moving and changing. And some of them hold these beautiful gifts to share, technological gifts, or how to govern, how to govern from compassion, what I called compassion-based government and how to make all of that work. And I think we are shifting from a, from a me-oriented society, to a we- oriented society, where we get that first, we’re all in this together. And then we get we’re just fluctuations of that same beautiful, Infinite field. So of course, we’re here to support each other, but that sense of individuality is shrinking and shrinking. And what we see on the surface is yes, the terrible headlines, is the struggle against that. Because what has kept that individuality orientation alive is of course, fear. Okay, fear of dissolution.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Do you feel that there’s any kind of certainty that the brighter outlook will prevail? Or do you think it could go either way?

Cynthia Lane: There’s no certainty at all. There’s no certainty at all. I think, each of us, in the way that were put together, whether sharing politically, whether it be climate activists, or whether being Being is your main thing, we just have to keep following our own inner guidance.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I was listening to some of these webinars that you did. And in one, you described the collision of the asteroid to the Yucatan peninsula that wiped out the dinosaurs, and just what a violent event that was. And it was quite a vivid description. I like that kind of sciency stuff. And so I found it very interesting. But the point you were making was that, you know, nature itself is not all, you know, ponies and butterflies. Nature can be quite violent and brutal. And that, and yet, as violent as that thing was–which was just one of the most violent things that geologists can imagine having happened to the Earth–it resulted in a huge evolutionary leap.

Cynthia Lane: Right. So we don’t always, we don’t–it’s not a linear world. A does not necessarily lead to B, does not necessarily lead to C. So we have to stay in that Infinite place, be one with the mystery, both in how we live our own lives. I don’t know anything. I don’t know anything about how my life’s gonna unfold, I call it living in a “need-to-know,” on a “need-to-know” basis. Though I was gonna have something with you, and so I had to, you know, meet with the tech guy. And, you know, so I get fed the information that I need, but I don’t know anything. And I don’t. . .all I know is what I’m given to know, which is to play my particular role, because of how my soul is put together, which is to support people to come home to the Infinite and to be in a state of love.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I think that thing you said about sort of being in this–how did you put it?–just being in the Self, or being in Being, is the key to this whole discussion about, you know, the world being crazy and how are we going to get through it? I was actually on a boat ride with Maharishi one time and someone–on Lake Lucerne–and someone said,” Well, how should we, what should we do to be able to survive the phase transition?” You just said, “Be established in the Self.”

Cynthia Lane: Right. Right. Right

Rick Archer: Which actually could have multiple meanings because, you know, even if your body didn’t survive, being established in the Self is more fundamental than that.

Cynthia Lane: Right. Right. Right. It’s–but one of the things I’d like to kind of lead into since you mentioned the word body is one of the things that–and it was just the path of my soul that led me to shift into all things Lakota was–I know that one of the things I’m here to do is to help, help it be not just a state of awareness, but a state of being human, where our cells come to self-recognize as divine Light.

Rick Archer: Our cells?

Cynthia Lane: Our cells. Cells.   So our cells, our organs, our energy systems, rather than identifying with density, or even energy, that we self-identify with that FirstLight as, as presences, as streams of Light. We can’t self-identify physically with the Infinite or we would just disappear. But we can become divine Light–I feel that’s quite possible–and live and function from there.

Rick Archer: Yeah.  So, are you distinguishing between the Infinite and divine Light?

Cynthia Lane: I am. The Infinite is nothing. Just nothing. It’s absolutely nothing.

Rick Archer: But you say, you are nothing and doing nothing and feel like you’re nothing and yet you’re functioning.

Cynthia Lane: I am, but I don’t feel like I’m functioning or doing anything. My inner knowing says, “Who’s talking?” I don’t know.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it’s like I heard you say on the recording that, you know, very often you would get to the end of the day, in which you’d been very busy doing different things, and you’d think, “What happened? I didn’t do anything. There’s nothing going on all day.” It’s like, you know, how did all that happen?

Cynthia Lane: Right. Right. Yeah. You know the old knock-knock joke? Knock, knock. Who’s there? Nobody? Nothing.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Let’s clarify this, because some people might find this confusing. I think what we’re saying–and correct me if I’m wrong–is that, you know, there are different, we could say, different strata of existence. And there’s, there’s a level which, it seems obvious, and it’s more perhaps surface or superficial, in which there’s all kinds of stuff going on. But like, like an ocean, which might be undergoing a hurricane on the surface, there’s a deeper level, which is totally silent, and just beyond the realm, beyond the reach of the influence of the hurricane. So there’s a level of our life which is like that, and we can get established there and have that be our predominant place, or resting place. And, and then engage in dynamic activity. Right?

Cynthia Lane: That that Infiniteness is not our predominant place. It’s just who we are. It’s who we are. It’s who we become. There’s just nothing else. There’s no way to describe it, because you know, the best–I call it transparent. You have to try to find some words. I call it infinite transparency. I call it being utterly unlocalized. I don’t know, you know. But it’s who you are. It’s not your predominant. And yet you find yourself still driving a car, you know. . .

Rick Archer: Yeah.  . . .engaging in work like this. But there’s never any sense of anything happening, or doing. Right. I think that maybe the word “predominant” works if a person is sort of approaching it from the usual perspective, and then maybe initially, they have some fleeting glimpse of something down there. And, and but it seems like very tenuous, and it’s lost. And then, you know, continuing along, it becomes clearer and more stable, and so on and so forth. And eventually the sort of identity shifts. Right.

Cynthia Lane: You kind of slip in and out.

Rick Archer: Yeah. For awhile.

Cynthia Lane: In and out, and then there’s no slipping.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah. The  old dyeing-the-cloth analogy.

Cynthia Lane: Right. And, as an option, in addition to that, absolutely exquisite experience–that, you know, fantastic experience–it’s hard to explain why “nothing” is so much fun, but it really is. I have a mentoring group, and I say, I know it seems comprehensible that I could talk so long about nothing and it’s so fun, but somehow it is. So so the–but what about these bodies? Okay. What about these bodies? Because some people have this– are in this absolutely blissful state of consciousness–but they’re sick.

Rick Archer: Right.

Cynthia Lane: So they don’t necessarily get to enjoy it. Or, they’re suffering from the limitations of age, as we watch different things need more and more attention, that kind of a thing. We can, through. . .we can get our bodies–and it’s not something we can talk about, just like meditating isn’t something you can talk about. But we can get our bodies to come to self-recognize as divine Light. So, and it’s through transmission. It’s being supported by the cosmos. It’s through, you know. . .but it starts to change.

Rick Archer: If we do that, does that mean that we’re not going to get sick or age? Is that what you’re implying?

Cynthia Lane: I would say that if you were in Light, or mostly in Light, that just intention would create healing.

Rick Archer: Huh! Well, you know, I don’t mean to sound skeptical, but. . .  All the great sages of history have died of something.  Ramana of cancer and Papaji of diabetes, and, you know, Isargadhatta of cancer, and so on. So, you know, what did they do wrong? But, aside from chain smoking cigarettes in Isargadhatta’s case. . .

Cynthia Lane: Of course. They didn’t do anything wrong. If they just, maybe that just wasn’t something they wanted to consider. It’s an option. Okay. It’s, you know, there’s a very interesting thing. Somebody told me about it, then I Googled it. And oh, my God, everything’s–you can get everything on Google.

Rick Archer: It’s like Alice’s restaurant.

Cynthia Lane: Right. There’s a tradition in Tibet, of people who take the path of what they call the rainbow body.

Rick Archer: Right.

Cynthia Lane: And they have pictures of it, you know, of the people. And when they decide to go, they sit in a hut, or wherever they sit, and people see beautiful light coming off the hut. Okay? Rainbow light. And when they go inside, all that’s left of the person’s physical body–I mean, it’s right there, you know–is this tiny little remnant.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: So that person has done, I would say, a version of becoming light.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, go ahead.

Cynthia Lane: But when I look at people who are in a pretty good state of awareness, to me, they look very transparent already. Okay. They, they look very holographic. And I feel that that we can get. . .it’s there as an option.

Rick Archer: Yeah, that was gonna ask you if you could cite some examples of it. And I guess that Tibetan thing would be one. Obviously, there would need to be more corroboration. It’s kind of like levitation, you know, I mean, all these stories throughout history of saints levitating. But, you know, no one’s ever seen one in our day and age that we know of. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people trying but actually doing it.

Cynthia Lane: It’s the hardest thing in the world, because everything in our collective consciousness tells us, even when we know all about quantum mechanics and everything else, keep sending us the message that we’re dense or, you know, maybe made of energy at the at the subtlest. But so it takes it’s a big

Rick Archer: shift. Yeah. So do you think that this beautiful, happy world that Mary Magdalene conveyed the, the idea of would be one in which you know, people all have these sort of light bodies? Or and tend not to get sick or age? Or is it still going to be a sort of a rather rare option? Gosh, or you don’t know.

Cynthia Lane: I don’t I really don’t know. But but it’s an option. It’s, it’s a choice. So

Rick Archer: this is obviously something that is important to you. So how, what do you do personally to help this happen for you? And what do you do with students to help it happen for them?

Cynthia Lane: A lot of what I get are, to help people has to do with this physiological, as well as spiritual transformation. So as you know, it and it really all started with cranial sacral therapy, where I discovered that many of the traumas that we suffer in in a lifetime, that they have an energetic remnant in the body, in the cells and you know, the functioning of the nervous system, and that if we, if we release those, then the psychological emotional healing is it’s much more thorough and lasting and deep. So that was the first way I got drawn to the body, but then I art harder, but when I work with people, the first thing I do when we start to meditate usually is to introduce to them and to their physiologies just the resonance after trying to convince them of anything, that their body is a dream of life. Okay. And then we invite divine light or divine love to come in and heal, whatever it is that needs healing. In that process, the body can begin to self identify little by little more and more with that, knowing that I am just a dream of life. And every time I do that, of course, it gets reinforced inside me. But I keep getting you know, you read some of the listen to some of the the teleconference Yeah, yeah, every time I work with people, especially in a group, something more is given for me to share, it comes out of nowhere, it’s totally unexpected. It like, wow, I would never thought of that. And, and, and it never shows up more than two or three days beforehand, ever. So but but it’s resonance, okay. It can’t be here, it has to be here. And it’s, it’s the resonance, it’s, it’s, I suppose we could call it a version of the dark shone principle, you know, that these these systems come through, to help the body begin to self identify with divine light. I also see that there’s something which I call the new light, which is a beautiful field of light that is present to us here on Earth, that is working with everybody here consciously or unconsciously, to support that transformation, you know, of awareness, and NFR physiologies, I really don’t know what that will mean, in terms of the aging process or anything else. It’s, it’s like, I’m just this instrument. And I feel like I’m supposed to do this. So I keep doing it,

Rick Archer: is the new light, something which has always been around, you know, which was around notice, it’s an it’s it wasn’t around the days of Jesus, but it’s something that’s happening now on Earth.

Cynthia Lane: Yes, that’s, that’s how I see

Rick Archer: it. And so a bit more about what it is.

Cynthia Lane: So it’s, it’s a, it’s a light field, like, we could say, Christ, the present kind of thing. Yes. And it’s, it’s omnipresent. And of course, if a person actually invites it in, then it’s gets, it’s more effective. But I see it go right into the spine and into the nervous system. And it’s about living as human beings, without belief systems, including physiological belief systems, and it works in the background, it works on the chemistry, it works on the nervous system, you know, it’s just very background, very gentle, because it’s very background, but it’s helping, it’s like a big assist from the cosmos, to help dissolve belief systems, all belief systems, whether emotional or physical, or the way I first was given to introduce it, as I said, would say to people, okay, imagine you’re standing on a bridge. And on one side of the bridge, are all the belief systems that ever were, you know, starting from the beginning of humanity, and all of your own individual belief system. So all the individual and collective belief systems that ever were, and it’s just as wild, you know, turbulent ball of energy. And then I say, now, what we’re going to do is we’re going to turn our back on that, okay. And as soon as we turn our back on that and take one step forward to the other side of the bridge, that light is there. And it is, it absolutely is there. And it’s just a gift, it’s to help with our transformation.

Rick Archer: So you’re saying that focusing on our belief system sort of obscures it, and if we can just sort of turn away from them for a bit, it’ll, it’ll be more accessible.

Cynthia Lane: It’s just a metaphor. It’s just a metaphor. It’s, it’s, and I say, including the belief system that you came, you came here to change anything, or do anything or fix anything. Okay? It’s just, it’s, it’s turning, it’s just turning into a way of living with we don’t really, we’ve never lived that way. I can’t answer specific questions is to live with this, with the same freedom we live in, in the realm of light. Okay. You know, in, in the realm of we’re the precipitated form of who we are in life, as as beings of life is to live with that same freedom as if we were never here as as if we’ve never taken on a human belief system, whether it’s belief system and sickness or mortality or this religion or that religion. It’s, it’s, it’s to live with that same freedom, so that we can be here with that same divine joy. Okay, Even while we have bodies,

Rick Archer: yeah, that’s nice. So in other words, our physicality doesn’t have to be a restriction or, you know, a prison, it can actually. Well, actually, I would go would take a step further and say that it’s there’s something more to being able to live this light in a physical body than to just be like without any manifest, you know, expression.

Cynthia Lane: Right. But But, but I like being human. Yeah, I mean, I, I like it here. And I think that we have been given a very special gift that we can experience divinity with through our senses. You know? It’s, it’s fantastic.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I want to talk to you more about that. I just want to add before I forget that what you were saying about the night light being kind of a new light reminds me of a book that my friend Rob Cox wrote many years ago, you may know Rob called the pillar of celestial fire in the last science of the ancient seers, in which he talked about third of the precession of the equinoxes, and how we’re coming into a time when there, there’s going to be this blast of subtle energy from the center of the galaxy or something that radiates or enlivens the earth and bathes us all in evolutionary influence.

Cynthia Lane: We are being paid that I wouldn’t call it a blast, because it’s my word. Yeah, that well, trigger. Yeah.

Rick Archer: It’s not like, you know, laser, Yammer.

Cynthia Lane: It’s very, it’s very loving, but very powerful and deep. And it’s just to help us take the next step.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Do you see it ramping up? More and more?

Cynthia Lane: I don’t see how could he be more

Rick Archer: ramped up and ramped as it’s gonna get? Because

Cynthia Lane: ramped up is an energetic word. Okay. And light is different than energy. It’s much more subtle.

Rick Archer: Yeah. But would like like, if you have a rheostat, you can start by just turning it a little bit. Yeah, barely see, and they can turn it more than more than more than, you know, there are many possible degrees of intensity of light.

Cynthia Lane: I haven’t thought that thought about that. Okay, I just feel it.

Rick Archer: I just given you a hard time, because I like to see that. Oh, my God, you’re my friend. Yeah. So this thing about, you just said about being able to perceive the divine? How did you how did you put that with our sense with our senses. So give us some examples of how it would be how it is to perceive the divine with the senses. So like, let’s say two people are walking down the street and they see a tree. And one person is sort of in an ordinary state of consciousness, and the other is in a state where he or she can perceive the divine with their senses? How do their perceptions differ?

Cynthia Lane: Well, that tree might either be glowing, or it might be. And this is just a visual thing, of course, because different people are more predominantly hearing difference, more sight more whatever, it might be totally transparent. The tree, yeah, you might, you might feel like, well, I can put my hand right through that thing. You probably you may not be able to, but but but and it’s the same thing with people. You know, we can see people as a bundle of qualities, some of which we love, and some of which we could maybe do without, or we can just see everybody as just this gorgeous, fantastic gift from the Creator, you know, a living presence of God. And when we see everybody in that way, it it helps them recognize that part of themselves. It helps them you know, if I see if I see somebody that way, and I, you know, whether it’s in the grocery store or a parking lot, and I’m engaging with them, that they cheer right up, you know, that because it’s just wakes that up in them. So it’s, it’s noticing more and more of the Divine and ultimately infinite nature of everything. It’s how we interpret things through our senses. So when I see something, that’s what I see, another person might see this terrible, you know, situation, you know, you know, dark qualities or threatening qualities as suppose it everything just be an expression of the infinite.

Rick Archer: How do you balance that perception without the need to take action? For instance, let’s say you live, you were an adult in 1941. And Hitler was doing his thing. And you know, maybe you were had this celestial perception and you could see the divine and Hitler, but also something had to be done about his behavior. How do you balance or reconcile the two things?

Cynthia Lane: It’s not here so the words balance and records and reconcile, don’t play don’t play a role. It’s so if you are that infinite Ness, if you are that nothing, there’s no filter between you and the way that that infinite NAS wants to express through you and as you, so you just find yourself doing what you’re supposed to do. You take that step,

Rick Archer: which might be actually a military step, and it could be a military this case.

Cynthia Lane: Yes, it could be becoming engaged on that level. Yeah, absolutely.

Rick Archer: Budget, the heat is a good example. Because there was a war, right to start. And, you know, Krishna sitting there, probably having that perception, you describe of seeing, everything is divine. And, you know, whereas our Junior was more sort of, like, get these guys. Yeah, and, you know, our Christian kind of kicked him out of that dualistic perspective and had him get established in being before performing magic

Cynthia Lane: knew he was supposed to act, he just knew it. And, and it’s just that simple. You know, I’m sure almost all of your listeners have had that experience of somehow just knowing, you know, it’s the simplest knowing it’s sometimes it’s not even something that’s intellectually cognized. First, it’s just, you just, it’s the infinite and the infinite expresses itself, through you, and as you without any filters.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Now, in your case, especially if people listen to the first interview, though, they’ll hear this, you know, you have been like a full time spiritual junkie for, you know, 50 years, doing, you know, going on months, months, and months and months, years, all together, of course, is where you’re meditating, basically, all your waking hours, and doing all kinds of intense spiritual stuff. I doubt you’re probably in the top 1% of anybody who’s listening to this show, in terms of the amount of stuff you have done to facilitate your evolution. So how would you speak to the other 99%, so to speak, to who might be feeling like, Well, my lifestyle doesn’t support that I don’t have the motivation to do that. I mean, how can I experience what she’s experiencing, if I, if I’m not going to pay my dues the way she did,

Cynthia Lane: I don’t believe in paying dues. Follow your heart, follow your heart. So if you’re drawn to meditate or not meditate with this teacher, or that teacher, or, you know, go to church, or go to the mosque, or you know, the synagogue, just just just or just be a good person, just, you know, shower, everybody you meet with love, you know, what, whatever is right for you, the universe is making so many options available. And it’s so much easier to grow now, because there’s so much consciousness, you know, I remember when I was still teaching TM, towards the end, people would have these fantastic, you know, experiences, which were less available to people, you know, 30 years prior, because there’s so much more consciousness in the world. So you don’t have to work at it. And that was the whole message of Mary Magdalene, just open and receive and I am going to support you.

Rick Archer: Well, hope everybody’s getting this. If anybody is listening to this and thinking, Well, I don’t quite understand how I can do that. What should I do? Feel free to send in a question, this is your opportunity. Because you don’t want to do these interviews, my predominant feeling is that I want people to derive benefit from them, not just entertainment or something that should be a, you know, really concrete impact and tangible thing that is that will be life changing for them to whatever extent is possible. So what you’re describing is beautiful. And I just really, I really hope that I mean, help me out here. So when you’re dealing with people and teaching people and talking to people, and so on, you have probably met some people who have doubts or resistances, or feelings of, you know, inferiority or inadequacy and so on. How do you help them break through those things and really start to experience the stuff you’re talking about. I don’t do anything, alright. You don’t do anything. But

Cynthia Lane: no, I mean, I didn’t tell you. But. So I guess I have to. My first major desire for humanity was for everybody to know how deeply they are loved how utterly, totally, completely and unconditionally they are loved and they don’t have to change a thing. That love is there. So, so So what one of the people that I most admire, besides Mr. Rogers, as you know, is there’s a wonderful priest in Los Angeles named Father, Greg Boyle. I’ve heard of and Yeah, and he’s just, who’s incredible. Oh, yeah, he

Rick Archer: works with drug addicts. And he works with a gang member.

Cynthia Lane: Yes, yeah. And he found that the key to healing was unconditional love. And he, he used these. He’s written two books, which I think are fantastic. And he used these. And he’s done lots of YouTubes. If anybody wants to watch him, he, he used these words that for healing to take place, it has to take place in the context of an irresistible culture of tenderness, in which each person knows that they are cherished. So when I heard those words, I was so excited, I thought, that’s what I want to say. And then I got that that irresistible culture of tenderness has to be established, not just between people, but in every cell in the body. Okay, so what I do,

Rick Archer: I think it would have to be established within people before it can be established between people.

Cynthia Lane: Exactly. And, and so we, we, what I did was, what I do with people is we take a look at what needs to change in order for that, let’s say whatever’s standing in the way of that person’s happiness, we don’t try to figure out every single detail of it, okay. But we just are aware that it’s there. And we just say I invite in, I guess, we could say divine light, and divine love. And, and, and they get soaked in that. Okay. And that resistance to knowing who you are, you know, that forgetting of knowing who you are, it gets dissolved and dissolved and dissolved.

Rick Archer: So just having that intention, or that

Cynthia Lane: intention, every intention, it’s a setup, and then we offer it, offer it to the infinite and to God.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I used to be kind of skeptical about and tension like that. And, and sometimes it’s used in a rather superficial way just to get material things. But I’ve seen a lot of examples where people, once they just have this, this sort of moment of wanting to know, or wanting to grow or wanting to open or wanting to, you know, there’s a seek and you shall find dynamic that takes place, the certain shift that takes place in one’s attitude, and then all of a sudden stuff starts coming, you know, opportunities and for evolution.

Cynthia Lane: It’s not about, you know, what people call manifesting or anything like that everything has its role. It’s not like that. It’s not trying to make something specific happen. It’s asking for help. Okay, I’ve lived with this for umpteen years, and I help, and then we drop it, we hand it over. We surrender. It’s about it’s totally about non doing. It’s totally about not being in control. It’s totally about surrender.

Rick Archer: Yeah, it almost sounds like Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, there, really, there is a thing of, of realizing that you’re not in control, and you need help, you know, we’re in control of nothing. Right. Once you reach that realization, then then healing is possible.

Cynthia Lane: Right, right. Yeah.

Rick Archer: So, Kim, someone named Kim sent in a question saying, what makes you sure that today, our awareness of the Divine is greater than in earlier times? My idea of divine light? Is that in letting go we perceive it not by working at it seems like two different points there. But go ahead.

Cynthia Lane: I don’t think it’s more or less. I mean, to be in that state. It’s just to be in that state. There’s no more or less involved? Well,

Rick Archer: I think you’re saying that there’s this light base more support where that was, there’s more zero 1000 years ago, where I

Cynthia Lane: don’t know what was going on without but there’s a lot of support now. Okay. And I do see that support. And, and it’s very helpful, but I wouldn’t necessarily go more or less. And to be I mean, nothing is nothing, you can’t be more or less nothing. You can’t be more or less divine light. You just can be merged with it. And that’s that.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there are degrees of merger and there are degrees of reflectivity or embodiment.

Cynthia Lane: Well, we talked about that. It’s you can slip in and out, but we’re here you’re there. And that’s that.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So like in your own experience, you’re there and that’s that does. But nonetheless, paradoxically. Is there still a sense of like becoming you More embodied or more brighter or more diffusive? Or any such thing? Like, what? What in what dimension? Is your growth taking place these days? Or to say,

Cynthia Lane: it’s hard to say because I’m so on localized, like, I don’t know what to say. But if we were gonna, but but definitely I do feel that my body’s changing little by little. Yeah, I do feel that sometimes I feel I do feel that sometimes.

Rick Archer: And is anything else changing your perception, your emotions, your functionality in any in any respect?

Cynthia Lane: You know, you mentioned Bill Bauman. And one time he said to me something which seem paradoxical and impossible. He said, You know, the house of the infinite has many rooms. And I thought, how can that be? How can nothing have rooms?

Rick Archer: Jesus said, My father’s houses in my father’s house, there are many mansions or some such thing.

Cynthia Lane: And yet I seem to be getting it’s like that divine light shining through the crystal, more and more. It’s, it’s a magical exploration. I don’t know how to describe it. But more possibilities have come in. I don’t, it’s hard to find words for them. But for me, it’s always to help people. That’s really what I’m doing here now. ways ways to help people in terms of how I experienced myself. I don’t know what to say i i am so local. Very, but I managed to drive my car, you know, and up for food, and I’m taking a trip to England and do it, you’re not gonna make it.

Rick Archer: If you whack your thumb in a hand with a hammer, you don’t think Well, that’s happening in China? No, no, no. I bump into something I go out. Yeah. Okay, well, just to reiterate the last part of her statement or question, my idea of the Divine Light of Divine Light is that we in letting go, we perceive it not by working at it. Right,

Cynthia Lane: we become it? Yeah, comment. I’ve noticed

Rick Archer: a number of spiritual teachers talking more and more that way, Rupert. spyera, just put out a video and audio Shanti seems to talk that way. But there’s one more appreciation of effortlessness and just sort of grace, let go and let God kind of thing?

Cynthia Lane: Well, you know, the thing is, if if something is meant to be, it’s never just going to be shared with one person, it’s going to be shared with lots of people all over the planet. So that, you know, it gets shared properly and as much as possible. Yeah.

Rick Archer: There are some notes you sent me. Okay, as we go along, excuse me, if anything comes to mind that we’re not talking about, you’d like to talk about, just plunge right in and talk about. But there was a notice sent me. And we talked a little bit about new light. And then there was one here transmuting suffering into bliss. A lot of people are suffering, you know, they’re on drugs, or they’re going through difficult times, financially, and relationships and all kinds of things. It’s, it would be Pollyanna ish to not recognize that there are suffering on the planet, lots of it. Thanks. So, what do you mean by transmuting it into bliss, how can that be done?

Cynthia Lane: So what causes suffering, we could say, is an experience, and, you know, like, a hammer on my thumb, and an interpretation of experience. So it’s out of our interpretation of experience, that suffering continues. So, a trauma, I believe, by definition is something that happens once, but then it gets it makes such a deep impression. That it it affects our, our experiences, you know, over the course of a lifetime, you know, it keeps coming up and coming out like PTSD and coming up so, so it becomes an interpretation. And that interpretation then gets more and more impressed into the nervous system and into the cellular chemical function. I got all of it, you know, and so What happens is, is when this divine love and divine light go to work, it begin, they begin to dissolve the holes that that interpretation has. And it works up physiologically. You know, not not just mentally, so that eventually we come to the point where we can remember something. But it has no charge left. Okay? It has, it’s just everything just is. I don’t know if I shared this in the first meeting we had, but I’ll just give it as an example. So I came to this point I was with Bill Bellman, where, you know, it was, it was all gone, you know, the charges were all gone. And the way I envisioned it would came to me inside was a stage. And a curtain came down, like a curtain coming down on a show. And I heard inside this personal history no longer exists. So I can remember, you know, as much as anybody may remember very well, various incidents in my life, but they’re just events. Okay? They’re just events. So that possibility is exists. And the transmuting of suffering into bliss, is the gradual dissolution of all the levels of imprint from physiological to psychological to emotional, nervous system to chemistry, in that that person’s life, it’s a transmuting. And how to, how do I suggest we do it? We ask for help.

Rick Archer: So, you know, ever think back and feel guilty about something you did or hurt by some things that happened? That’s already, that’s all that has lost? Its

Cynthia Lane: oomph? Yeah, there’s no impact.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s a, I think, an analogy that Ramana Maharshi or somebody used about how, you know, a rope can be burned up. And if you look at it, it still looks like a rope. But it’s just ash, if you try to do anything with it, it just disintegrates. So it’s kind of like, you know, just like what you said, you can remember what happened to you in high school, but it doesn’t have any grip anymore.

Cynthia Lane: Now, it’s like a book you read or a movie saw? Yeah.

Rick Archer: Don’t take it personally. Because there’s no person to take it. Right. That’s it, brother. Yeah. Is that the I have interviewed Bill bomb? And so if anybody wants to listen to that, you’ll find it on BatGap. Okay, and I guess I, you know, he said, ask for help, and it’ll come. And obviously, they’re more serious degrees of sufferings, you know, very overwhelming, you know, compelling, gripping. You know, people really go through stuff. It seems like it might take a while to get out of that intensity of suffering. And how does one maintain the sort of confidence and, and inspiration to do that.

Cynthia Lane: And I also would not use only one system, okay, this is a great system, but some people are more put together to effect the physiology more. You know, to really remove trauma in a more, you know, physical way, or energetic way. You know, I refer people to other people all the time, because I know what I’m equipped to support, which is this. Bringing in this Divine Light and Divine love as a, a powerful tool for shifting things, but I would never say that’s the only thing you should do. Sure.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I talked to a psychiatrist yesterday who had listened to an interview I did a month or two ago in which the guests said something about, you know, just the negative or negative opinion of any kind of therapeutic drugs, psycho active drugs that are used in therapy. And she said, she really wanted to set the record straight. So I might as well just reiterate what she said, Because it pretends what we’re seeing right now, which is she said that going through years of prolonged depression or other forms of mental illness actually damages the brain. And if you can, you can nip things in the bud these days that they’re much more skillful in the use of various drugs. And she included the you know, the the hope and promise of micro dosing and psychedelics and stuff like that, but just even the drugs that they legally use. Now, she said she’s seen remarkable results with just snapping people out of deep depression or other troubled states and they end up living happy, productive lives, whatever, minimal if any negative side effects the drug had or are in significate. And compared to the effect that remaining in that depressed state would have had right? For a long, long periods of time. So it’s good to sort of be open minded to these possibilities. I

Cynthia Lane: think it’s all God. Yeah, it’s all God. You know, however God wants to help you, whether it’s through a chemical or whatever, just, you know, find your way. Listen to your heart. And, and your common sense. I’m, I have, you know, I know some people who are very beautiful beings and you know, very, very far along their spiritual path. But because of their chemistry, they had to, you know, take take something to correct to correct some depression or whatever. Right, right. And it was night and day, and then they could just get on with their lives. So, so it’s all God, you know, it’s all God.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I’ve seen examples of that, too. So Sarah, if you’re listening, I got to put in a plug for you what you told me.

Cynthia Lane: Yeah, well, whatever, whatever your your you’re drawn to whatever your heart tells you. Follow through with it. Okay. That’s why there are so many things available to us. Because we’re each different packages, find what you need.

Rick Archer: Yeah, actually, you might have been there. I remember on the Santa Barbara ATR course, marshy said, we’re not fanatics. He said, whatever works. We’re in favorite ever wear whatever works. Let’s do it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, here’s another little thing in the notes. You sent me, lady, Julian’s vision. What were those? Oh, okay. So some Christian say something.

Cynthia Lane: I have a crush on lady Julian. She, I discovered her in a silly way, I won’t go into it. But she was a 13th Century woman who was educated, which was very, very rare for that time. I don’t know that she was overly religious. And of course, in the 13th century, it was a very hellfire and brimstone version of Christianity, while she got very sick. And finally, it was I think she’d been sick for a couple of months. And she fell into a place where they thought, sure this was the end. And the priest came to give her last rites and all that thing. But instead of dying, she had these gorgeous visions, called the visions of divine love. And she came out and of course, she was fine. You know how those things go. And then she was able to because she was educated and could write, she wrote those visions down. And then she, she did commentary on them. So 20 years later, she, you know, did a more expansive commentary on them. And then she she became what was called an anchor, right in those days. And an anchor right was somebody who had a small cell built on the outside of a church with just a small window window in so that they, she she could experience the mass and get food and all that. But anyway, I found her when I was 16 years old, in a romance novel, and I just, I’ve been her fan ever since. And I even ended up living in Norwich for a year, which is interesting. But Julian of

Rick Archer: Norwich, of course. Yes. And she didn’t think was Lady Julian. Yes.

Cynthia Lane: It was all about God’s love. God is love. God is love. God is love. God is love, and no judgment, you know, nothing like that. And she was amazing.

Rick Archer: So she had a near death experience, which these days are on people having, especially with modern medicine, which brings people back from heart attacks and stuff. And what’s that you have there,

Cynthia Lane: I found this quote from her just in case, there was an opportunity to share it, I’ll go so this is 13th century, not only will receive the same joy that souls previously have had in heaven, but we will also receive a new joy, which will be flowing copiously out of God into us, fulfilling God. So it’s the same message really, you know?

Rick Archer: Have you ever had meditations or anything in which it was kind of like a near death experience, although it wasn’t a physical near death, where you sort of went off to some other realm and kind of communicated or interacted with, you know, this or that and then came back and could talk about it? No, okay. Just curious.

Cynthia Lane: I, you know, it I when I expand that I’m all of it. You know, you know, the body of perush where the whole universe is inside you and all that kind of thing, but I never went. It’s so it was an expansion of me. Yeah. Not a departure from me, right.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And when that expansion takes place, and does it sort of begin to shine a light on or incorporate things that you know Have some specificity to them? Or is it more like pure, abstract, unbounded awareness?

Cynthia Lane: I think you’re gonna have to ask that again.

Rick Archer: Well, is there any kind of cognition thing that takes place? Where, you know, I mean, awareness expands, and you’re in this kind of vast ocean, and then you begin to see the fish in the ocean, you begin to sort of cognize impulses are something that are that reside in that field.

Cynthia Lane: Right, right. Yes. I think I might have described. One experience I had meditating with Bill was about miracles. So is there a question coming up, you’d rather address but so Bill was doing this big event. And he said, Okay, we’re gonna have a meditation on miracles, I said, fine. I just, you know, sit there, and whatever happens, happens. So suddenly, it’s like I was in this vast ocean of myself, okay. And I don’t know how it was exactly. But this understanding came in, and there were some visuals to it. So from the time we’re born, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re very sensitive beings, and we have no language or anything else, to, to help us interpret what’s going on in our environment, mom and dad are doing great mom and dad are screaming at us or, you know, but we feel all these things. And because we don’t know what to do with them, this is just in my vision, we develop what I’ll call cellular defenses, that’s that protect us from maybe angry input or fear, fearful input. And those cellular defenses come in at such an early pre verbal stage, that we’re not even aware that they’re there, you know, and yet, they maintain on the level of our bodies, or in our cellular functioning, duality. There’s a me, and then there’s that which I have to protect against. So it’s like, separation, and duality is built into the body. And of course, now I’m all about, you know, getting the body to, to dissolve all that. So, so I become very aware of that. And as soon as I become aware of that, I feel just through grace, I mean, it’s a meditation for a miracle. I feel it all dissolves. Okay, and, and I’m all of it. And then it’s, I’m this ocean of being and I have a very, I have the kind of mind that if I think I’m an ocean of being I see an ocean. And I see coming up in this ocean, all this debris, like shipwrecks, you know, and I get that as I meditating, oh, this, this is all of the debris of whatever’s messed up in the unconscious in human consciousness, okay. But it’s all me. And as soon as it’s all me, it dissolves. And then another wave of debris comes up, but it’s just me, and it dissolved. So that was just an example of something that could come up in a meditation.

Rick Archer: Well, that’s interesting, because as you started saying, that I started thinking, Well, wait a minute, she said, she already cleared out all this stuff. But what you’re saying is that you’ve you function as a washing machine for debris and collective consciousness in that

Cynthia Lane: moment, but it was more like it wasn’t like it was moving through me and I was trying to fix it. It was just a spontaneous, because I perceived that it was me. Yeah. It dissolved.

Rick Archer: Interesting. Yeah. And if you had perceived it, that it was something other than you

Cynthia Lane: then I might have to defend against it

Rick Archer: on either okay.

Cynthia Lane: That cellular that old habit of myself saying, There’s me and then something I have to defend against that had been dissolved. Yes, happened.

Rick Archer: I kind of sometimes think that that must be the way Arma functions, you know, where she sits there, doesn’t ours, you know, hugging people, one after another? Yeah. If there was sort of any kind of duality in her awareness, it would be exhausting.

Cynthia Lane: Oh, yeah, she can’t it’s just she’s just being like, infinite. She’s, yeah. She’s nothing doing nothing, right.

Rick Archer: Yeah. In fact, she said one time some she, you know, has all these humanitarian projects, especially in India and her some Swamis were talking to her about all the things that they were doing and she and they were saying, Well, you know, what more can we do to help the world and she said, What world It’s the dream. It’s the dream of life, right? So did you sent me these notes about some things that you’ve is it useful and interesting to bring up some of the points that you’ve talked about in some of these seminars? It’s providing little, you know, talking points here for me, but do you want to go through some more of these or what?

Cynthia Lane: How about is, do you think it’s, are we going too long? Or no, no,

Rick Archer: we have another half an hour or so. Okay, let’s go for it for like 25 minutes or whatever. So you gave a whole thing about black holes and intention and creation. What was that about?

Cynthia Lane: So that’s another thing to remember I mentioned earlier, I never know when I’m doing this teleconference is what’s gonna, what’s gonna show up. So right before that particular teleconference can’t believe it anyway, you know, the guy who’s the expert on black holes, my brain is even okay, even hockey, he died. Okay, so there were all these articles about Stephen Hawking and black holes. And I love science. So I was reading it. And what he found was that, you know, sometimes we think that black holes, just take everything in and turn it into nothing, you know, some people think it goes to another universe. I mean, there’s so many theories, but he said, he found that black holes actually emitted something,

Rick Archer: you do a lot of intense radiation. Yeah.

Cynthia Lane: So I was able to, I shouldn’t even say I, it came to me how to give people that experience. So so it more ways are always coming to dissolve individuality, both physical, cellular and consciousness. And to recreate a new version of that person, which is without boundaries, okay, you know, be made of like, be made of consciousness. So, it came to me that that a meditation came that, using that knowledge of black holes, we could do that we could dissolve into the black hole. And then out with come this reorganized version of ourselves, empowered by, you know, the quantum world.

Rick Archer: And this case was the concept of black hole somehow metaphorical. Because you couldn’t literally go into a black hole without NO molecules ripped apart.

Cynthia Lane: It’s consciousness, this intention. I see now, it’s what happened. It’s an awareness. Yeah. It’s as if, I guess we could say, and yet the same effect could be their dissolution and recreation. I mean, people go into these meditations, and they, they can’t come out. So I know something’s going on.

Rick Archer: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Okay, how about this one birthing a quantum based human paradigm? What was that

Cynthia Lane: it’s really functioning from wholeness, okay. It’s, it’s recognizing that even though we are these ones were the dream. Okay. So we were each a different version of the dream of light of where each a different expression of the infinite creativity and divine light, okay, but, and, and, and we, and we want to celebrate this vast garden of possibilities that we all are, it’s not all roses. So it’s dandelions. It’s, you know, peonies, it’s, you know, a lot of people love dandelion root and helps them a lot, you know, so everything got everything has a purpose. So, so it’s, but it’s, even though on the outside, we’re appearing to be an activist, or be a meditator or be this or be that we’re taking all these different forms and expressions, artists, engineers, cooks, you know, even we’re doing all these different things, the quantum based Universe or the quantum based person, their inner reality is that they are nothing doing nothing, that they’re playing just as the as the universe is playing by creating all of us.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you know, sometimes people criticize the use of physics terms in quantum mechanics, terms by consciousness people, they feel like it’s not a there’s not not a realistic correlation there. We’re just borrowing terms in order to try to explain something that actually has nothing to do with quantum mechanical realities. But I don’t think that’s true. For a number of reasons, I mean, the very foundation of quantum mechanics was the discovery that the observer influences, influences you know, the phenomenon, such as you know, the The what is it called the two whole experiment where a beam becomes a particle if it’s observed, but a wave if it’s not observed. So there’s definitely some kind of deep correlation between consciousness and the behavior of creation. And go ahead. Do you want to comment on that?

Cynthia Lane: Yeah, just say I’m grateful for the vocabulary. Yeah,

Rick Archer: it’s, it’s not just a metaphor, there’s some kind of actual reality to the connection.

Cynthia Lane: It’s so difficult to explain these things, that the language of science is a huge blessing, you know, to be able to explain these things to people or talk about them.

Rick Archer: It is. And it’s told us that, you know, creation is fundamentally unified and superficially diverse, just like, our experience might reveal to us through spiritual practice. You know, we start from the field of diversity, and we end up at a field of unity. And, you know, and that’s what physics does, is as it goes to more and more fundamentals, levels of majors functioning.

Cynthia Lane: Right. And those words, it’s a field of pure potential. Okay. It’s,

Rick Archer: it’s wonderful. Yeah. Now, um, one interesting consideration is, you know, physics, tries to get deeper and deeper into nature’s functioning and hopefully arrive at sort of the ultimate theory of everything, you know, an understanding of the, the ultimate reality of the universe. spiritual pursuit, does a similar thing. And, you know, we’re told that ultimately we are consciousness, or we are wholeness, or we are Brahman, and so on, we’re not just these bodies. But it kind of begs the question, could there be two ultimate realities, the one we experience subjectively, if we realize that we are the totality, and the one that that physics or science can study? I’ll let you take the answer to that.

Cynthia Lane: I think there are all possibilities. One of the most fascinating things I ever saw was a TV show, you know, Nova. And he was talking about how for string theory to work, they needed to be a minimum of 12 There needs to be 12 dimension mentioned. Yeah. Now, we, as human beings are only put together to perceive the way our brains were three or four dimensions. That’s just how we are. So he said, you could be living right in the middle of a nine dimensional universe, and not know it because you’re not equipped enough to experience it. Oh, I love that. So I don’t think I can answer your question. Because there could be a different answer from all 12 different dimensions.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Well, house like can be caught in your cars, you’re driving down the highway, and listening to Beethoven on the radio. The housefly has a reality that is very real for housefly, but it has to it has no inkling whatsoever, the reality that you’re experiencing.

Cynthia Lane: I absolutely know that I am not equipped to explain all this stuff. I’m just not. And you know, sometimes when I was with with a teacher, especially my Lakota teacher, I could tell that his experience was different than mine. And I told him this for this for this for and then I would feel literally like my brain fell off a cliff. I couldn’t follow any further. So it’s kind of like that i i can only go until my brain falls off the cliff, which it’s happy to do it as a mindful.

Rick Archer: Yes. Well, it’s a real nice cliffs around Santa Fe. That Yeah. Some towels Awesome. Well, we’re sort of getting something here because I’ve had this discussion with my friend Dana Sawyer, who, who feels that there isn’t necessarily one ultimate reality that people throughout, you know, the, throughout the ages and all cultures have experienced, but that there’s always going to be really a quite a unique flavor of what people experience as being ultimate that will vary from time to time and place to place. And I usually take the the angle that no, there’s got to be this perennial philosophy, there’s got to be sort of a more more uniformity in the experience. Because if we’re really talking about experience in what is ultimately, ultimately real, it doesn’t make sense that there could ultimately be a plethora of realities if they’re really ultimate because we have this intuitive sense that it all boils down to one fundamental thing.

Cynthia Lane: You know, it’s like nothing is true and everything is true. So to us, here we are in this third dimensional world with our brains, which you’ve done the best to expand and to grasp bigger and bigger realities. Alright, you know, it’s not something I haven’t thought of. So this this, you have thought of it. Other words of becoming infinite becoming nothing. It seems like that would be it. But I couldn’t tell you for sure. Because I know that there are millions of universes being born all the time. And in 12 dimensions, I mean, there could be way more than that. And I just don’t think there’s one truth. You know, I just, I just think it’s, it’s, you know, like Vishnu lying there dreaming, dreaming the world, but he dreams many, many, many, many worlds simultaneously. And I only have access to this this universe. But what

Rick Archer: if there’s one truth and Vishnu has access to it, but none of the inhabitants of his worlds have access to it to the extent he does? We little human beings, you know, although we might have a sense of infinity and vastness and oneness and nothing happening at all that could that could still be a far cry from what some highly evolved being on. Right? Alpha Centuria is experiencing,

Cynthia Lane: right? But if you become one with Vishnu, or the source or the infinite, you cease to know anything. You just cease to know anything. You realize you don’t know, I realized, I don’t know anything, except what I’m given in the moment. Like I got a call Rick at 130.

Rick Archer: Ah, it looks like Irene sent a question and about the housefly. How do you know, flies? Don’t listen to baby Beethoven? Well, I’m sure they do, but I don’t think they interpreted as Beethoven. If the flies in the car, it picks up the vibrations of sound was a joke. Okay. I think it’s a good question. It’s a good point, actually. Because the house fly is actually getting some sensory stimuli from the sound coming out of the radio, but it has a radically different interpretation of it than we do.

Cynthia Lane: Absolutely. And then take it up to the human level, you know, what you need to know to do to bring fulfillment to the package of the instrument that you are. And I know what I need to know to bring fulfillment to the package of internet that I am. But that’s it.

Rick Archer: There’s nice, there’s a kind of a humility, implicit in what you’re saying, which I find refreshing and helpful. You know, this sort of thing was Nisargadatta. Somebody who said that awake, enlightenment is like freefall. It’s like freefall, freefall, freefall forever. The good news is there’s no ground, you’re not going to go splat. But but, you know, there’s definitely this kind of continuous like, just freefall in here. There’s no sort of no place. Well listen to what Jesus said to me. He said, You know, for the birds have their nests and the foxes have their dens but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

Cynthia Lane: Yes. We just, it takes some getting used to, you know, and then you just laugh. I don’t know.

Rick Archer: Even laughing ever since I met you. In fact, that was my first impression. And I sat next to you were like beaming and giggling just like you are now. Alrighty, well, we’re rambling a bit, but um, it’s fun. Is there anything else you’d like to say that we haven’t said?

Cynthia Lane: I just like people to tune into, at the very least, how much love there is for them everywhere all the time, and how perfect and how beautiful they are exactly as they are, if they could just tune into that. You know, I just want everybody to feel in every cell in their body, how beloved they are. And then ultimately, we become the love. But that’s a first step. One of the things I sometimes people come here for retreats, and one of the things I decided to do was to just put people outside and I would say, you know, we all love to hug a tree but this is about letting the tree hug you. And I would say drop into your heart because that’s how I started everything is whoops, I smashed that thing. Just, you know, drop into your heart center and just be there. And then with your eyes open, focus on anything a blade of grass Anything that’s alive, and just open to how much love is pouring into you from every living thing, however small and they do they feel it and it’s gorgeous. It’s gorgeous.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And you know that that makes sense. Because I mean, if God is omnipresent if the divine intelligence is on the present, which it is, obviously, if you look closely at anything, then it’s it’s in every little thing, like you say, every little blade of grass so

Cynthia Lane: on it’s it’s loving, everything is supporting us and loving us. It’s fantastic.

Rick Archer: And not just us, I mean, it’s just infinitely correlated net of Indra, you know, where everything is mutually sort of correlated with everything else. Well, that’s a good note to end on. So what kind of activities do you offer? What can people do?

Cynthia Lane: I have individual sessions over Skype or something. I don’t usually do Skype because I don’t like to sit in front of a computer, I usually just do it over the phone. Okay. So I mean, I will if people really want to, but sure. Most of my sessions are are long distance. And I have a mentoring group. And they last nine months, I’ll start another one in January. And each one has a slightly different theme. But that’s where the, the downloads come for me to share with people in the mentoring programs include a mix of teleconferences, and individual sessions, and then I have what I call, once a year, I do something called an earth retreat, where I mix in, you know, the beautiful things I learned from the Lakota tradition in with all the other stuff. take people out on the land.

Rick Archer: They’re in Santa Fe area.

Cynthia Lane: Yeah, in New Mexico.

Rick Archer: Yeah. already. And so

Cynthia Lane: my website, yeah. CDs, I have CDs, and mp3 is on there as well. Okay, like the ones I sent you?

Rick Archer: Yeah. Good. I enjoyed listening to those. So I’ll be linking to your website, as I always do. And people can go there. And obviously, you know, find out about this stuff and sign up for email, notifications and all the usual stuff.

Cynthia Lane: All right. Rick, thank you for this. And thank you for what you’re doing. I think it’s absolutely fantastic. And Right. Right, right. But you know, you’re you’re, you’re sharing Yeah, what’s meant to come through you? And it’s, it’s just, it’s fun. It’s just so fun to sit and talk with you. It really

Rick Archer: is. Yeah. So next time I’m down in Santa Fe, I’ll definitely get in touch you better? Yeah. Well, I’ll be in trouble if I don’t.

Cynthia Lane: Yes, big level trouble.

Rick Archer: lightning bolts to the head. Alright, good. So Thanks, Cynthia. And thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching. As you probably know, this is an ongoing series. And I just encourage you to go to the website. And check out the menus to see what you can do there, you know, audio podcasts, email, newsletters, things like that. And I just learned something the other day, which is that, you know, you can subscribe to a YouTube channel. But right next to the subscribe button, there’s a little bell. And if you click on that bell, then it makes you like a super subscriber or something and it notifies you of everything that’s posted on the channel as opposed to just occasionally notify you. And in my case, I don’t post anything on the channel except these weekly interviews. So if you want YouTube to notify you of each one, then click on that little bell. And that’s what will happen.

Cynthia Lane: Huge love to you my friend.

Rick Archer: Love to you. Take care. Take care. Bye. Thanks. Bye bye