Richard Rohr is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province. He is the founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation and academic dean of the CAC’s Living School. An internationally recognized author and spiritual leader, Fr. Richard teaches primarily on incarnational mysticism, non-dual consciousness, and contemplation, with a particular emphasis on how these affect the social justice issues of our time.

Podcast: Another Name for Every Thing

A few of Fr. Rohr’s 30+ books:

• The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe
• Every Thing Is Sacred: 40 Practices and Reflections on the Universal Christ
• The Wisdom Pattern: Order, Disorder, Reorder
• Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life
• Immortal Diamond: The Search for Our True Self
• Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer

Main points discussed in this conversation:

• The universal Christ and the personal Jesus.
• Our environmental destruction reveals our failure to realize God’s omnipresence.
• Tribal vs. universal religion.
• Christians are known for protecting life before birth, but not after.
• Process Theology: Consciousness is evolving in its capacity to be received and embodied.
• We only have metaphors to describe God – e.g. God is light. There was never one notion of God in the old testament or new testament.
• Jesus is often depicted as a punisher rather than the compassionate man that he was.
• Order, Disorder, and Reorder – all three are necessary for the universe to exist.
• Embracing polarities and paradox.
• God as the Great Allower – free will.
• Aligning with God’s will.
• The Universal Christ – the synthesis of Richard’s 50+ ministry.
• Transactional vs. transformational religion.
• The meaning of Jesus dying for our sins.
• Jesus did not come to change the mind of God about humanity but to change the mind of humanity about God.
• The importance of restorative vs. retributive justice.
• The Apostles’ creed.
• Infinite love can never give up on anything it created.
• Fundamentally, we’re all connected, so we all share each other’s sins and virtues to some degree.
• The fall had to happen for us to freely choose the good.
• Nonduality is more explicit in eastern religions but is also in Christianity.
• Universities teach us knowledge but not wisdom. Great love and great suffering are the universal paths of transformation. If you avoid them, you will never be wise.
• We need to love something more than ourselves. We start with a stone, a plant, an animal, and work our way up to God.
• Suffering accompanies love, but without love, there are things you will never know.
• The meaning of the crucifixion, in terms of solidarity.

Discussion of this interview in the BatGap Community Facebook Group.

Transcript of this interview.

Interview recorded March 27, 2021

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

• 00:00:00 – Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump
• 00:02:10 – The Vast Universe and the Universal Christ
• 00:04:02 – Jesus and the Universal Concept of the Christ
• 00:06:22 – The Cosmic Notion of Christ
• 00:08:33 – A New Cosmology and Universalizing Jesus’ Message
• 00:10:49 – The Small Box of Religion
• 00:12:54 – The Marvel of Intelligence and Creativity
• 00:14:53 – Caring for Creation and Social Justice
• 00:16:54 – Saving the Worms
• 00:18:55 – Changing Notions of God
• 00:21:12 – The Exclusionary Nature of Theology
• 00:23:18 – The Journey from Order to Re-order
• 00:25:41 – Embracing Polarities and Diversities
• 00:28:05 – The breadth of freedom and social order
• 00:30:00 – Love God and Do What You Want
• 00:32:15 – The Changing Grand Canyon
• 00:34:20 – The Multifaceted Nature of Causality
• 00:36:39 – The “Father Wound” and the Atonement
• 00:38:50 – The Transformation of Religion
• 00:40:46 – The Healing Environment of the Prison System
• 00:42:09 – The Loneliness and Cutthroat Nature of Prison Life
• 00:43:36 – The Communion of Saints
• 00:45:22 – The Interconnectedness of Humanity and Collective Consciousness
• 00:46:55 – The Fall and Autonomy
• 00:48:33 – The Fall and the Wounded Condition
• 00:50:02 – The Happy Fault and the Rediscovery of Non-Duality
• 00:51:36 – Great Love and Great Suffering
• 00:53:19 – The Power of Love and Suffering
• 00:54:53 – Jesus’s justice strategy
• 00:56:29 – Solidarity vs Sacrifice
• 00:58:19 – Dipping into the Ocean of Richard Rohr

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Cynthia Bourgeault is a modern-day mystic, Episcopal priest, and theologian. For thirty years she worked closely with Fr. Thomas Keating as a student, editor, and colleague and has taught and written extensively on Centering Prayer. She is a core faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation and founding director of an international network of Wisdom Schools. In addition to her work on Centering Prayer, she is the author of numerous other books on the Christian Mystical and Wisdom tradition, including The Wisdom Jesus: Transforming Heart and Mind–A New Perspective on Christ and His Message, The Meaning of Mary Magdalene: Discovering the Woman at the Heart of Christianity, and her most recent, Eye of the Heart: A Spiritual Journey into the Imaginal Realm.

Websites:

• cynthiabourgeault.org
• wisdomwayofknowing.org

Other Books:

• The Heart of Centering Prayer: Nondual Christianity in Theory and Practice
• Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening
• The Holy Trinity and the Law of Three: Discovering the Radical Truth at the Heart of Christianity
• Love is Stronger than Death: The Mystical Union of Two Souls

Main points discussed in this interview:

• The Imaginal Realm is an objective reality belonging to the spectrums of consciousness within the Great Chain of Being which transcend, surround, and penetrate the denser realities. “Imaginal” does not mean “imaginary”.
• Heaven and Hell represent opposites on the spectrum of consciousness which runs from freedom and connectedness on one end to constriction and alienation on the other. Both are experienced here, too.
• Our important task is to become cosmic servants integrated into earthly reality.
• Our work done in this realm feeds and informs the subtler realms which then process it and pour it back into our realm so that all realms evolve as a single reality.
• The Kingdom of Heaven can be interpreted as seeing ourselves as wormholes that act as portals into the wholeness of the cosmic matrix. Encountering the Kingdom of God opens us up to the holistic nature of reality that informs and invites us to walk within the congruity of our individual will and the will of the Wholeness that seeks to become manifest.
• Developing discernment requires equanimity and open-heartedness grounded in humility so that the ego doesn’t take the lead by creating roles that toxify and stagnate the path towards love and understanding.
• Remaining teachable while being willing to risk self-exploration is essential to balanced development.
• Creation is God’s way of communicating Love that gives, receives, sees, and is seen. This relational field has as its telos the eternal generation of diversity held together and protected by Love.
• The great work is to fully show up in the laboratory of our lives and awaken into higher stages of consciousness. We courageously and graciously accept the presence of “tough grace” which comes to us packaged as apparent obstacles and even suffering.
• From the depth of humility and spiritual maturity, we learn how to appreciate pinnacle spiritual states without getting attached to them.
• Our emotional transactions have an energetic signature. We can learn how to “sniff the odor” of the energy in events, places, the dynamic between people, and even in concepts and ideas. This “sniffing” is an encounter with the Imaginal Realms.
• We are in the birth canal of the collective emergence into the integral but the labor is difficult due to divisions between the “structures of consciousness.” We need to honor and re-engage with the magical and the mythical, ritual, the spirit of repentance, a lifestyle of moderation, and heart-centered living in order to create the spaciousness needed for global metanoia.
• Jesus came to “line the anguish [of our human experience] with love.” The entire cosmos, from the dense to the subtle, is set up to experience burning restlessness—which becomes the driveshaft propelling the whole thing forward. Through Jesus, God tells the universe that love reaches all, forgiveness is eternal, nothing is lost, and the Universe is for you.
  

Discussion of this interview in the Batgap Community Facebook Group.

Interview recorded February 6, 2021

First BatGap interview with Cynthia.

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

• 00:00:00 – Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump
• 00:04:41 – The Subtler Dimensions of Reality
• 00:08:41 – Heaven and Hell in the Christian Tradition
• 00:12:55 – Two Different Experiences of Theophane’s Presence
• 00:16:51 – Being a Cosmic Servant
• 00:20:58 – Receiving and Transplanting Spiritual Virtues
• 00:25:24 – Seeing the Whole Picture
• 00:29:47 – Surrendering to the Field of Moral Coherence
• 00:33:50 – Spiritual Discernment and the Hazards of Misinterpretation
• 00:37:50 – The Importance of Risk-Taking in Spiritual Growth
• 00:42:28 – The Science of Love and the Divine Heart
• 00:46:44 – The Anti-Entropic Force
• 00:50:54 – The Turning and Kicking 
• 00:54:24 – The School of Hard Knocks and Spiritual Evolution
• 00:58:07 – The Mystery of Life’s Unfolding
• 01:02:19 – Sensation and the Gurjief work
• 01:06:16 – The Energetic Signature of Psychosis
• 01:10:41 – The Shift in the Subtle Realms
• 01:15:27 – The Great Chain of Being and Collective Repentance
• 01:20:05 – Climate Change and Cataclysms
• 01:24:23 – Cultivating Goodness in Consciousness
• 01:33:06 – The Burden and Joy of Parenthood
• 01:36:53 – The Denying Force and Necessary Friction
• 01:40:57 – The Spiritual Womb Center
• 01:45:10 – Moving Sensation to the Chakras
• 01:49:54 – The Necessary Darkness for Transformation
• 01:54:15 – The Misinterpretation of “There’s only God”
• 01:58:30 – Cynthia Bourgeault Library and Other Websites
• 02:02:21 – New Voices in the CAC
• 02:05:32 – Introductory Music

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As a contemplative practitioner and clinical psychologist, James Finley helps seekers who desire to live a contemplative, whole life. Drawing from his experience as a former monk and spiritual directee of Thomas Merton, Jim offers trustworthy guidance for the spiritual journey through his website, online courses, occasional retreats, and the Center for Action and Contemplation where he serves as a core faculty member of The Living School for Action and Contemplation with Cynthia Bourgeault and Richard Rohr. Jim is the author of several books, including:

• Merton’s Palace of Nowhere,
• The Contemplative Heart, and
• Christian Meditation: Experiencing the Presence of God.

James’s podcast, Turning to the Mystics is for people searching for something more meaningful, intimate, and richly present in the divine gift of their lives. A clinical psychologist, James offers a modern take on the historical contemplative practices of Christian mystics like Teresa of Avila and Thomas Merton. Leaning into their experiences can become a gateway to hope, healing, and oneness. In each episode, Jim reads an excerpt from a mystical text, unpacks the meaning and symbolism, and then concludes with meditation and prayer. Together with Kirsten Oates from the Center for Action and Contemplation, they explore listener questions and examine their own paths as modern contemplatives in this beautiful and broken world.

Discussion of this interview in the BatGap Community Facebook Group.

Transcript of this interview.

Interview recorded August 1, 2020.

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

• 00:00:00 – Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump
• 00:04:41 – Thomas Merton: A Contemplative Life
• 00:09:00 – The Solitude of Thomas Merton
• 00:12:26 – Leaving the Monastery: Trauma and Abuse
• 00:15:25 – Unitive Experiences and Fragility in Spiritual Traditions
• 00:19:26 – Ascending to Higher States of Consciousness
• 00:22:53 – The Brokenness Within Oneself
• 00:26:45 – Abusive Relationships and Healing Processes
• 00:30:41 – Mystics and Enlightenment in Christianity
• 00:34:56 – Different Perspectives on Religion and Mysticism
• 00:38:44 – Awakening and the Path of Transformation
• 00:42:42 – The Endless Nature of Mysticism
• 00:46:53 – The Center for Action and Contemplation
• 00:50:28 – Finding a Healthy Balance
• 00:54:00 – God’s Transcendence and Presence
• 00:58:32 – The Ocean of Reality and the Religious Experience
• 01:02:12 – The Play and Display of Divine Intelligence
• 01:09:28 – The Deathless Beauty of the Beloved
• 01:13:27 – The Unexpected Nearness of God
• 01:17:21 – Respecting the Physiology and the Path to Awakening
• 01:20:49 – The Asceticism of Dying and Letting Go
• 01:24:37 – Understanding the Crucifixion and Resurrection
• 01:28:46 – The Mystery of Faith and Resurrection
• 01:32:24 – The Mystery of the Trinity and God’s Self-Expression
• 01:36:12 – Mystical Consciousness 
• 01:40:05 – Sensitizing ourselves to the beating heart
• 01:44:18 – The Frustration of Spiritual Practice
• 01:48:18 – Teaching and Engagement Opportunities with James Finley
• 01:52:04 – Finding Your Practice and Community
• 01:55:44 – Farewell and Thanks

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