Brian Piergrossi Transcript

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Brian Piergrossi Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest this week is Brian Piergrossi. Welcome, Brian.

Brian Piergrossi: Thank you, Rick, great to be here.

Rick Archer: Brian lives in the Asheville area, right? That’s correct. It’s a hotbed of spirituality. I can’t wait to get down there. I mean, I know so many people down there. Yeah, that’s Asheville, North Carolina, for those of you who don’t know your US geography. And there’s a lot of details on the bio page of your website. And I thought that rather than reading them, I would just have you kind of introduce yourself. And we’ll probably cover a lot of these points in the course of the interview. So how would you like to introduce yourself?

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, it’s interesting. I was just, I was just, I was, as you’re researching me, I was researching you a little bit yesterday, looking at some of the little bit of the not not in the, in that in the beyond the show, but in listen to some of the archives of the show, and so forth. There is an interesting question that you brought forth with one of the guests, which was, do you share the story of yourself and your life? Where do you say that, you know, I’m not the story of my life and not my life? And kind of, and that’s, that’s, that’s the question that I always kind of look at, and, and play with. And so I’ll share the story of my life and also say that there’s, there’s something that’s, you know, beyond the story, and you really realized that the story is just a story. And, and then there’s so many different ways of framing the story and which aspects of the story to highlight, and not to highlight. But the way I point toward it, as far as when this major shift came for me was, when I was 20 years old, I had an illness that was the came on, suddenly and strongly and didn’t go away, and actually get progressively worse. And that wasn’t really getting any kind of real answers from the medical establishment as far as what was happening with me. And you know, at that age, there’s, there’s all sorts of dreams and ideas about what your life is going to be like, and all these things that you’re going to do and and there’s kind of this kind of real awakening, in the sense that all that’s not true that none of that actually seems to be the way things are going now, and that is just throwing this absolute curveball, which made me question made me question everything made me question, you know, life itself, and why is it seem like everything that I’ve been told isn’t true and isn’t working out that way? And, and why am I suffering? And what is the cause of suffering? And why are human beings suffering? And so there was this really strong thought, like, there was no choice. Like, I had to find out these answers for myself, first and foremost. And one good thing about having an illness, which I’ve talked to some of the people that have been in this situation is, you do have a lot of time, because there’s not much else you can do. So there was an opening for reading and, you know, journaling, and things that I was able to do. And it really gave me a chance to really explore these answers for myself. And it became at one point in intention to find out the answer to these questions. Who am I? Why am I here? What is the cause of suffering? And I started to realize pretty quickly the mind body connection, which was a real opening for me. So there was this, this realization that the physical suffering I was feeling was connected to the way I was thinking the way I was thinking about myself and thinking about the world. And that opened up this whole whole realm, this whole other realm and exciting realm for me and opened me up to Cindy teaching to the east. And it all progressed forward from that point.

Rick Archer: Seriously, that I can think of a number of examples of people who went through serious illnesses and came out the other side, having awakened or you know, with this big shift like St. Francis of Assisi, as a famous example, came back from the Crusades and got really sick. And then you know, if you ever saw Brother Sun, Sister Moon, came out of his sickness. And you know, it was a big epiphany had happened. And I interviewed a guy named doc Roberts a couple years ago, who was put in an induced coma for a couple of weeks because he had this really serious lung surgery. And when he came out from the coma, he discovered I mean, he had awakened in the spiritual sense everything had shifted. And then there was that guy who’s famous in Thailand who was slipped a poisoned candy by a would be thief and nearly died and you know, went unconscious and, and somehow rather that Oh, You know, when he came out of that there was an awakening. So this seems like sometimes either a serious illness is some kind of final purgative, or some sort of burning off of karma or something that, you know, sometimes people come out having really shifted significantly.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, even at a deeper says, I totally agree. And then, you know, what if when I explored people, you know, what caused you to start the spiritual search? And what caused you to go on this journey to discover you know, yourself the essence of who you are? The answer is pretty much universal. There may be some exceptions, but But generally speaking, the answer is suffering. Yeah, you know, suffering is what is what propelled me forward. And so it’s good to have that perspective. Because you realize it’s all not for naught, you know, there is a reason there is this, this, it’s pulling you it’s calling you in a direction to the Find something greater than what you see currently.

Rick Archer: It said in some traditions that the angels don’t have really the motivation for Enlightenment, because they’re enjoying so much, you know, there’s no impetus.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, exactly. That’s it.

Rick Archer: So do you, are you saying that you kind of went through a phase where you were still really sick, but you were searching like a son of a gun investigating all kinds of things? Actually,

Brian Piergrossi: yeah, exactly. It was a sense of, you know, whatever that was my that was what my life was dedicated to, from that point. So. And at that point, it didn’t feel like there was a lot of people that I could turn to that had the answers to the questions that I had. This is before YouTube and the proliferation of internet and the way it’s it is now so it was a lot of reading, it was books, it was going to the library and finding what I could find, and a lot of that time, it wasn’t till later that I will start to connect with some actual human beings that seem to be on the same path and exploring some of the same questions and having some, some answers to the questions.

Rick Archer: Yeah, we presume you weren’t in Nashville at the time, I was not physically had been, like, you know, everywhere. Everybody bumped into, from what the impression I got? Yeah. So how long did the sickness phase go on from the age of 20? Till work?

Brian Piergrossi: That’s a good question. It got progressively better. And I was taking this holistic approach. So it was sort of, you’re doing all kinds of healing modalities, exactly. Exploring all kinds of things. So I was exploring things. You know, as far as that goes to all kinds of different, you know, opening up to acupuncture and meditation and yoga, and whatever I could find, I would try it, you know, and there’s a sort of guinea pig for all sorts of holistic modalities, I was kind of decided that the the, the, the route of prescription drugs, and that stuff wasn’t where I wanted to go. And so I was just exploring all these ballistic modalities. So I mean, I mean, really like the 10 years or so. But it was, but it would, you know, progressively better and better. So we’re in the beginning, I was essentially bedridden for six months or so, now I’m functioning, and I’m in the world, but I would have, you know, little setbacks here and there, and maybe not quite feeling 100% optimal. But But, but that’s yeah, I would say about that length of time,

Rick Archer: kind of came to mind, just no Om Shanti story where he talks about how he had been this competitive bicycle racer, and then he got really sick and it knocked him flat, and he couldn’t do it anymore. And you know, then he, obviously he was also a spiritual aspirant at the same time. And, you know, he had this kind of a series of awakenings. And then as soon as he got healthy, he started getting back into competitive bicycle racing. And then boom, it knocked him out, he finally kind of got the message that this is not what you’re supposed to be doing with your life. Not that there’s anything wrong with competitive bicycle racing, but in his case, it’s like nature was whacking him with, you know, a stick to say this change direction. But yeah,

Brian Piergrossi: well, that’s a great point. And that’s what that’s what I started to learn is that, yeah, you know, the body, our emotions, our thoughts, they’re giving us signals. They’re telling us what direction to go when they’re telling us we’re going too far this way. Or we should be going this way instead, and sort of like the more you walk into the moment the more the president awareness is like, well, I need to listen or I want to listen to what I’m what I’m being guided here and not getting the need when you’re in the ego it’s just resistance to wanting to fight No, I’m not going to get into this emotion or this body. You know, it’s this struggle against yourself and against life and status awakening to flowing with life. And those signals can be can be start to become more and more settled, where you can just move with where you’re being guided when, you know, we’re being told to slow down or speed up or move left or right. Yeah, good point.

Rick Archer: So, so he went through his decade or so of gradually getting better and investigating All sorts of things. And I suppose in the course of this, you weren’t just investigating health related things, you began investigating spiritual practices, and you’re getting more and more interested in Enlightenment and awakening and so on. Right? Well, that

Brian Piergrossi: well, that came pretty quickly. I mean, that’s, like, I suppose I realized the fact I remember, it’s funny, you say that I remember I heard about Enlightenment, I heard the term, that’s what I want, I want to be the chance to go beyond suffering altogether. And let’s go first go for the whole thing, you know, instead of just trying to, you know, piecemeal it. So, yeah, that came pretty quickly. And that that wasn’t my my focus was toward from that point forward and studying what I could study in regards to it. So

Rick Archer: what just study what so and what had what was of significance to

Brian Piergrossi: you? Yeah, so alive, pretty much it was kind of whatever I could find, which then would lead to what, you know, what come next. So I remember I heard something about I keep hearing about yoga, yoga, yoga. And, and it was something significant was interpreted, I was supposed to follow something. So I found some old book on yoga and you know, Swami, such and such and said, reading that and hearing about Enlightenment and, and then I found a yoga teacher, where where I grew up, which was outside of Redding, Pennsylvania. And then that led me to, at that time, they had a group that was meeting weekly. That was watching videos of Andrew Koan, which I know you’ve had on your, on your show. So I was going to that, and it would lead to different parts. But some different signposts that really stand out to me that was for, you know, big, big ones or memories was sort of caught his eye. And that was, was a big one, I’ve been carried that every everywhere I went for, like a year or two. Every day, we didn’t redo the phrase, he didn’t know what I was what I was talking about, but they were, you know, they pretended they did. And so that was a big shift, and then really wasn’t a Krishna Murthy. For a couple years as well, just kind of, you know, kind of just almost one put it into him and his writings and his videos, and and then lots of other people too, but those to say no. And then the third one that was staying out, probably towards the end of that illustration would be Eckhart Tolle, and his stuff. Yeah.

Rick Archer: And so, you know, obviously, as you were doing this, there was the whole secret mentality. And did you find that at a certain point? You know, the secret mentality relaxed? And you you felt there was a sense of having found or, or was it? Was it a subtle shift that you couldn’t quite pinpoint? Or was there an abrupt transition at some point?

Brian Piergrossi: Well, as far as what I was what I was looking at, and studying and reading, I have to give credit to actually ug Krishnamurti for that phase, I was reading his stuff, and there was this whole thing about, you know, the, you know, the, basically the point of view, you don’t need to seek a waiver, you just search for it. And it just kind of opened up something in me would have forever reason it was the point where I was at where something Something clicked. And so that was helpful. Reading his his book called the mystique of Enlightenment at that time. But yes, I do. I do know that that that phase, and that was in my early 30s, where the sense of like, yeah, the search has nothing to search for the search is over. And yes, I am that we are that. This is it.

Rick Archer: And that was when you had this realization,

Brian Piergrossi: like in the early 30s or early 30s.

Rick Archer: How old are you now?

Brian Piergrossi: I just turned 39.

Rick Archer: Okay, so you know, maybe eight years ago, or seven years ago, or something like that. And so what’s been going on since the conclusion that the search is over?

Brian Piergrossi: Well, life definitely continues. For sure. I like to look at two different aspects of life. So there and I think a lot of teachings missed this, they kind of focus on one without the other. So there’s a realization of your of oneself beyond the realm of space and time, the essence of who you are, which doesn’t change the same as it was five years ago, it was now is five years from now, after we die before we’re born, etc. And then there’s the realization of who we are within the realm of space and time, you know, the progressive evolution of consciousness, as we, as we are in the realm of times, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 2013 1415. And so, so, so that realm, beyond space, and time doesn’t change. There’s that realization, but then there’s thrown within space and time and there’s all sorts of things growing and changing and continuing to evolve in one’s consciousness on that realm. So so that definitely continues. And it’s just, you know, participating fully in and appreciating and enjoying the journey on that realm.

Rick Archer: That’s very well put and it’s a frequent theme in these shows, because, you know, I can agree with people who’s who say, one who might say, Oh, the search is over. And there’s nothing more to gain and so on. But as you’ve already alluded to a number of times, there are levels to life. And that’s, that may be true on one level. But there’s, you know, there are other levels on which that will never be true. I came across a great quote by Adyashanti, just recently, he said, even now, with me, the mystery is just beginning, always still beginning. And I would consider him a very advanced soul. I mean, St. St. Teresa of Avila said of God, it appears that even God is still on the journey, you know, so. And, you know, too, well, you can probably riff on on the implications of that. So maybe I’ll try to talk a little less and let you kind of, give me your processes. Yeah,

Brian Piergrossi: well, there’s, you’re sure Well, there’s two things. So learning I mean, if you’re not learning, you’re, you’re dead. You know, learning is really the joy of life, you can be learning each day and talking about the Krishna Murty America generally speaking about, you know, you should always be learning, every moment you’re learning, you know, that’s that’s, that’s being present that’s being in the moment is continually being a space of innocence. of like a newborn baby, you know, you’re learning like you’re seeing them for the first time. So so that’s the real joy of life is killing to be learning every day, and the shift is, now it’s not from a place of lack of places, I’m trying to, you know, there’s a hole in me that I’m trying to fool to of who I thought I you know, I’m this, this little ego that needs this, this to be gratify myself, or have some sense of self worth a sense of self love, you realize who you are, and the essence of who you are. So it’s not coming from a place of lack, and it’s coming from a place of wholeness. And that’s the difference. Very well

Rick Archer: put. I think that’s such an important point, if there’s some discussion, because, you know, it may appear to be that someone is still seeking, but it could very well be that, but it’s just a matter of connotation and definition, really, because seeking does imply lack, I’m seeking something which I don’t have. And perhaps, you know, once that shift is taken place, a better word might be exploring, or discovering and all and, you know, one can explore and discover endlessly on the platform of fulfillment.

Brian Piergrossi: I think exploring discovering, yeah, I like those, I like those, that terminology. And I feel like that’s the really the fulfillment of life is exploring and discovering, and in the world of form, it’s constantly changing and constantly moving in the, in the realm of formlessness, there’s nothing changing or moving. But in the world of form, you know, every moment is new. And so to be in the space of exploring, and discovery opens you to, to, to the, what’s new, which is always right now, and then opening to the flow of continually opening yourself to what’s new in the world before him in the warmth of consciousness, in the realm of time and space.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And, and the nature of the topic we’re discussing is, you know, pretends to that level of life, which is complete and perfect in and of itself. So, when we talk when we speak of exploring, discovering, it doesn’t mean that okay, now I’m gonna get a PhD in astrophysics, now, I’m gonna go get become an MD, and now I’m gonna get a PhD in philosophy. And it’s not like in the relative world, there are probably an infinite number of lifetimes, one could spend learning all the little details of everything. So we’re not suggesting that I don’t think but we’re suggesting that the exploration can be in terms of the juxtaposition of the Absolute, the relative or the infusion of the absolute into the relative, and, you know, how, how refined and capable an instrument we can become for the expression of that when you say, I think that’s

Brian Piergrossi: very well said, I like that a lot. We should, we should record that and share that everywhere in the piccolo and at that point out. Yes, yes. The embodiment the integration, the consciousness. So there’s, there’s, you know, the Infinite is not a thought, which we can get more into that because I think that’s the big misperception that people have. It’s not a feeling it’s not a thought. It’s not an experience. But then how does it How does it inform your thoughts and your feelings in your, in your experiences? That’s the consciousness that you’re relating to this dimension of reality. And it’s, yeah, it’s an exciting, endless exploration. That’s not coming from a place of lack now. It’s coming from a place of joy and a place of play ultimately,

Rick Archer: yeah. Yeah. That’s good. And when you say the Infinite is not a thought it kind of reminds me of the whole theme of, you know, really experiencing what we’re talking about versus conceptualizing it. And we’re not talking really we’re Not, we’re playing with concepts here. But the significant thing is not the concepts. It’s the actual living experience to which they point.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, it’s recognizing that whatever changes is not the essence of oneself, you know, so that includes feeling. So this is a big misconception that I find with people that are spiritual seekers is they? Well, I had this experience, you know, I had this experience, and I want to get back to that experience, you know, I want to and this is what their surface motivation is to get back to this experience that they’ve had, or this feeling that they’ve had, you know, and it’s the realization that that experience is over. And it’s not coming back. That’s in the past, and it’s dead. But this experience right now, and this experience is it. And this experience is always it. And the formlessness, the essence of who we are, is always is always here as the backdrop of whatever experience, whatever feeling whatever thought is happening right now. So it’s really just blowing our minds open and our consciousness open as to what we think. It’s supposed to be like, a friend of mine recently. Whatever you think it’s supposed to be like, it’s not really opening to what’s here.

Rick Archer: And the little blurb on my Skype ID is “Whatever you think it’s more than that”.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, I saw that. I like that.

Rick Archer: Yeah, what you said just said, kind of reminds me of like, let’s say you’re sitting watching a movie, Argo. So Argo recently great movie, it’s like, while I was watching Argo, or was it thinking, jeez, I really wish this were avatar, I’d like to get back to watching avatar, you know? So so it’s like, the experiences keep rolling. But there’s kind of an underlying foundation to them all. And that in every case, let’s say if you’re in a theater, it’s the movie screen, you know, there’s this movie screen and that, but that’s always the same, but the, the movies playing on it, keep changing.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, and if you’re fully in the moment, 100% that’s the one that’s that’s been there’s no separation, there’s no division, there’s no barrier, there’s no resistance. So to fully give yourself to this moment, is the realization in the embodiment of oneness, whatever, whatever is happening is moment. So it’s an unconditional relationship with the moment, which really then means and uncooked relationship with life, because life is, is now.

Rick Archer: Yeah. But somehow, I feel we have to emphasize the importance of awakening that underlying field, that doesn’t change, you know, because without that, you know, living in the moment, just means tossing about on the surface of the ocean, you know, is this wave? And is this wave? And is this wave without kind of any anchor stability? And that’s what, of course, most people in the in the world do. They’re just kind of living from moment to moment, very often thinking about the past and future, but just, you know, caught up in the waves of change without any underlying foundation that you’ve been referring to as a state of fulfillment or, you know, some stable basis.

Brian Piergrossi: But yeah, so what I see is there’s a point where those two meet, yeah. So when you’re completely in the flow of life, paradoxically, you’re completely in the stillness of life, because there’s no, there’s no resistance to rattle the stillness. You know, so there’s there actually, you could look at it from either angle, and different teachings, you’ll get a different angle, but it amounts to the same place you’re talking about. So if you’re completely surrendered to the flow of life, you, in a sense, are in a space that’s unchanging. Right, because there’s no, there’s no sense that, oh, I don’t want to feel sadness right now. Or I don’t want to feel happiness right now. Or I don’t want to, there’s no you to, to create a separate identity, that that creates that that that distorts the perception of the essence of who we are, which is always that groundless sense that’s here, because the nice thing is there’s no problem. So you realize that who you are, is is not a problem, regardless of what’s arising in the world of form in the world of phenomena.

Rick Archer: So what the question that comes to mind is, which is the cart in which the horse? Can you kind of consciously be fully in the flow of life and that will awaken the the found the underlying foundation of silence and stillness? Or do you have to somehow access that that silent foundation in order to meaningfully be fully in the flow of life? Or how the two come together hand in hand silence to grow to whatever extent they grow simultaneously?

Brian Piergrossi: If it’s a good question, I think you can come to it either way. But what’s interesting is the consciousness of of the awakened state. In other words, being aware that you’re aware. And I remember I always I like Eckhart Tolle story a lot. So for those who don’t know, he had this incredible awakening opening and overnight and the he didn’t have any kind of religious or spiritual or any sort of when there’s never any books on it or never had any, you know, any cognitive understanding of it. So he didn’t know that he didn’t know what happened to him. And I was like a story of where he’s, he’s reading the Bible. And it says, he reads the passage, the peace that passeth all understanding and hits him, Oh, well, that’s mean, because I have peace, I don’t understand it. So it’s like, I think that there’s this. There’s a space where you’re in that you’re in that flow, and then it’s the recognition of being in it, that is a shift tipping point,

Rick Archer: if that makes sense. And, and I would just suggest that there are many ways of culturing or eliciting that, you know, there are practices that are very effective, there are non practices that may happen. You might be like Eckhart Tolle or Byron, Katie and just wake up one morning and wallah, although seem to be the exception to the rule. Usually, most people that I know of any way that I’ve spoken to on this show, and that I’ve encountered in my life, have had some sort of period of practice or discipline or search, which has borne fruit.

Brian Piergrossi: What I think is really important for people to realize is I would call integration. So you can have this awakening. And it’s kind of like, when I see people this face, it’s almost like they’re walking around like wounded or stunned, or they don’t know what happened to him. And it’s this this period of embodying and integrating this into this world. And I certainly that was a, that was a period for me, too. And I see a lot of people is, you know, you, you’ve awakened, you’ve seen something. But how do you live in this world? With what you’ve seen? How do you How can you be a human being, and function this world as a spiritual being. And I think that’s where the real juice is, that’s where it gets really interesting. And that’s where there’s a lot to explore and to discover. And as you I was referring to earlier, to delve into and to learn, and it can be it can be an ongoing learning adventure.

Rick Archer: Yeah, in my experience, it’s, it’s like kind of walking up a flight of stairs, first, you take a step with your left foot, and then your right foot and your left foot, the right foot. And what I mean by that is, there has been a continual clarity, a cleric clarification of the cognition of the Absolute, but then a continual integration of that into the relative. So it’s not like, all sudden, one day 100% Absolute, it’s not gonna get any clearer, you know, perfect, perfectly clear, pure, unbounded consciousness, and nothing can be improved in that arena. But, and now I’ve got to integrate it, it’s been more like a glimpse of that integration and a clear glimpse of that integration. And until eventually, you know, both are quite, quite full. But others might maybe it’s different for other people, you know, I’d like to ask Eckert if I get a chance to interview him, you know, whether he feels that his experience of the Self or pure consciousness that dawn that morning, after asking the question, you know, are there two of me whether that in and of itself has actually gotten clear over the years, or whether it’s just the integration that has taken place, and that has remained essentially the same as it was that morning?

Brian Piergrossi: To me it would be the integration, I mean, to me, the absolute is the absolute. So it can’t become any more absolute, or it’s not the absolute. That just seems, by definition, though, but your appreciation

Rick Archer: of it, I’m not saying the absolute itself can can get any more Absolutely. But the, you know, your, the clarity of your cognition of it,

Brian Piergrossi: I agree. So that’s what I’m calling the integration, that, that, that can take time in the linear realm of time and space to

Rick Archer: and when the integration is preliminary, it can be even the cognition to the absolute can be kind of foggy. And then as the integration progresses, it gets more and more clear, so that you’re saying that,

Brian Piergrossi: yeah, it’s like the consciousness, aligning itself with what with the awakening. I find that there’s a there’s usually a not all the time but a lot of times there’s a phase where when people awaken they just disconnect from from life and they may sit on a park bench for a while as their guard totally or just, you know, quit their job or leave their relationship and just kind of, they don’t know how to live In the world, right, you know, and it’s not sometimes it’s very painful. It’s not always this blissed out thing. But then that’s the process of integrating this awakening. So you know, your consciousness aligns with awakening, and you’re able to live in this world. So you’re the the intention is to be in the spaces. The world and not world are the same, you know, there’s not the separation between the two, where you’re, for me, I feel like, where I was in a phase before, where I was trying to, you know, this is the world and I am spiritual, and I’m not in the world or of the world and trying to separate myself from the world and the things of the world. Now, it’s the world is spiritual and spiritual is the world and they’re one in the same and fully giving myself to life is fully transcendent.

Rick Archer: Because half the people listening will have, just as you’re speaking will have recalled Christ statement being in the world, but not of it was

Brian Piergrossi: right on the tip of my, my, my mind, yes, yeah. And Tom?

Rick Archer: Well, let’s pursue this a little bit more as it you know, people speak of awakenings, as opposed to just one big awakening. Sure. And referencing Adi Shanti. Again, he went through a series of two or three major awakenings. And as I understand what he said, in each one, not only was his sort of orientation to the world shifted, but even his appreciation or cognition of itself became more deep, or more profound. And so that’s kind of what I’m driving at here is that, you know, when we have an awakening, it’s like, you know, a hologram, for instance, maybe this is a good analogy, a whole, you know, how a hologram works, you have a piece of film and it’s been exposed in a certain way, using a laser such that if you shine a laser through it, again, he’s you get a projection of the object that that was being filmed. And you can cut the hologram in half, and take the film and shine a laser through it, and you still get the same object, but there’s not as quite as much resolution, you know, and you could cut it in half again, stay in logic, not as much resolution. So, you know, when the self is recognized, it’s like maybe like seeing a tree in the fog, you know, it’s a tree and not a horse, but, but there can be greater clarity of that recognition. And, and who knows the, what the limits of that clarity might be. And then in addition to that clarity, there’s a whole thing you’re referring to, of the integration of, of that cognition with your life as a human being. And, and again, there’s no end to the exploration of that.

Brian Piergrossi: I think that so, the way the funny awakening here is, again, it’s sattwic it’s, it’s not a thought or feeling or it’s not even an experience in the sense of you can label or define it. Of course, we poetically, we do it all the time, but it’s not actually what we’re actually you know, it’s not actually the truth. So, so that so there’s that, you know, there’s this awakening and then you may have a whole series of beliefs and ideas about life and your relationships and your work and, and it may blow that out of the water and it’s almost like you really is like you’ve been like like hit with like a you know, a rocket or something. You have to like almost like recover, heal from it and be formed a new when you heal your you become something new than you were before. So your your mind is trying to cuz that’s what the mind does, is trying to grapple, it’s trying to find some kind of a new balance of this opening. That’s, that’s happened. And so I feel like that’s the process of your, your way of seeing the world. Because as long as there’s a world, there’s a way of seeing it. So it is evolves to align. And it’s still there’s still barriers and parameters, anything that’s if it’s a if there’s a thing or if there’s things there’s barriers and parameters. But this this is light that’s shining and informing it. Now that’s infinite, that has no boundaries, no limits or parameters.

Rick Archer: Yeah, very nice. Maybe that’s what you refer to as the big glow. You wrote the glow. Yeah. Let’s talk about your books a little bit. You wrote the wall of now and the big glow. And your website has this sort of big glow logo

Brian Piergrossi: Big glow energy.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And you Why did you come up with that term just because of what we’re just saying. I was Is there more to it?

Brian Piergrossi: It’s a poetic term. I mean, you did define it very well, you know, recognizing the light within oneself where as before that we’re searching for fulfillment outside ourselves in some, whatever we think is gonna give it to us, you know, a relationship or amount of money or a car, a job, or whatever it is. There’s this recognition that it shifts who we are that I Am that I Am that fulfillment. And then it’s this this great spiritual liberation. And then so the book is intention of expressing that that truth, as well as the wild the novel. And I think one of the differences between the way I’m sharing it as opposed some of the people is there’s this there’s a certain playfulness and fun and lightness that ties with also depth has as well. And so that’s the intention of the books as well.

Rick Archer: Is there a literal quality of glow? In your experience? Or is that metaphorical, just just metaphorical,

Brian Piergrossi: there is a light that you can start reading, I was with somebody focus on the other day, and there was this profound shift in themselves. And this is, you know, there were just quiet and they’re smiling with this incredible light, just you know, m&e radiating from them. And, yeah, I think that there’s that there is that, that quality that that can be there. But but, you know, it’s worth saying that that’s not the main point. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s something that’s deeper than, for example, somebody could have the flu, and it could still be there, the awakening of that realization is will be there. So it goes beyond whatever the physical is going through a particular moment. But generally speaking, yes, you can definitely see that at times with people that this this more light, this radiance is coming from, they’re coming from the physicality.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And along the lines of integrating that foot more, more and more fully into the relative world, I’ve heard it said that, you know, a time comes when everything one perceives, is radiating, that sort of glow, there’s a sort of a kind of a celestial radiance to even the most common objects that is sort of, you know, their, their essential spiritual value is sort of shining for through them, even if it’s a rock. And if one has the eyes to see it.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, I think I feel like, I like to play with him light and light, so light as the light, like light from the sun and light as lighter as less weight, you know. So the more we make in our consciousness, the lighter we are, because we’re not as heavy and dense and thought. And so there’s more light that can shine through, and everything that we’re seeing, because we’re not seeing it so heavy with description, and categorization and labels, and all this heaviness of the mind. And so that’s what that the light of the moment is able to be recognized and seen and reflected without any division or barrier or resistance.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think it might even be more than just freedom from conceptual baggage. It’s like, can you remember a time when you were a lot younger, when you might have been depressed? And let’s say you’re walking down the street, and it’s a cloudy day, and everything just seems gray and dead and lifeless? And, you know, it’s like, there’s this sort of flat, depressing quality through everything. And now, you know, if you’re walking down the street on a cloudy day, there’s this sort of joy and, and everything seems magical and wondrous, even though it’s perhaps the very same street that you’re walking down. So I think it’s maybe not not just because you’re, you’re not busy conceptualizing, but your whole perceptual apparatus has evolved.

Brian Piergrossi: Again, for me this this is what I talked about being in the moment being in the now because that magic is there. But we don’t see it. So busy thinking about all my life is terrible. And this happened last week. And what happened? What happens if I lose my job next week, if a while and then and then you know, when there’s when that stuff dissipates? It’s like, Wow, look how magical these dark clouds are in front of me. Look how magical the sense of rain is. And it’s so the realization it doesn’t matter what the thing is, it’s our presence in the moment that brings that sense of magical magic in miraculousness. To Life, it’s it’s us being awake to to what’s here. That creates that, that sense of magic and miraculousness

Rick Archer: Yeah, so then what it comes down to is all right, well, how do we accomplish that? You know, I mean, if somebody’s in a blue funk, if they You know, if their life is burdened and pressured, and they just feel like they’ve got a lot on their shoulders, how do we help that person shift to this more joyous way of being?

Brian Piergrossi: Right? So that’s where the shift of self is making a difference. You know, because if you’re if you think that your ego itself and the story of yourself and the story of ideas about yourself because of what people did to you, and what they said to you before, and you’re trying to overcome it, and all these different things, then there’s a very contracted sense of, of self, which, which makes you feel it because it’s not really true. So on some level, you feel the sense of like, you’re not free, you’re contracted, you’re like in a prison, you’re trying to break out of it. But then, you know, as you see over time trying to break out of it, is what maintains the illusion of the prison. And then there’s a there’s a point where you say, I don’t need to break out of it, because there actually is no prison to begin with. And that realization shifts everything. It’s like, another example of that is sitting at a table with a group of people one time. And it was about relationships and having feeling connected, having intimate relationships. And it was this big discussion of how do we, how do we create the bridge? How do we bridge this gap? There’s this gap, and how do we bridge this gap between us? So we’re sitting there and this was some years ago, but something lit up in me. And I said, Listen, I have to tell you all something that I realized there actually is no gap. I see, right, there’s there’s no gap. And actually, us trying to create a bridge is perpetuating the illusion of a gap. And it’s actually creating division between us. And so I was explaining this and it was everyone, there’s like three or four of us, it just lit up, you know, we’re all lit up and realizing that there’s no gap in this profound sense of, of oneness was present. And so it’s this discrimination that we create in our minds, okay, there’s a gap or I’m in prison around this, and then we’re trying to break out of the prison or we’re trying to bridge the gap. And at some point, we realized that the issue is us creating the idea that there’s a gap or that there’s a prison.

Rick Archer: Yeah, well, that was kind of interesting. In your case, you’re sitting with a group of like minded friends who are sort of spiritually inclined and, and just you’re saying that was a catalyst for at least three or four of them to have a shift in perspective, maybe not every maybe not everybody table.

Brian Piergrossi: Well, that was that was the table.

Rick Archer: Oh, that was the whole table. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, what comes to my mind is, though, you know, that for most people, for everyone, to some extent, there are layers and layers and layers of conditioning. And just, and there are, again, rare cases like Eckhart Tolle, he’s on one night, he’s on the verge of suicide, the next morning, he’s awakened. There are examples like that. But but I’m sure it’s he has realized it’s not going to be as quick and easy for everyone as it was for him. He can’t speak to an audience of 300 people and have everyone come away with the sort of shift that he underwent. So I’m always interested in the practicality of how, you know, the average person can break through those many layers of conditioning and really undergo a profound and permanent shift and not have it just be some conceptual toy that they start walking around quoting, you know, various Pat phrases without any real experience to underlie it.

Brian Piergrossi: Well, there’s, it’s an interesting inquiry you’re bringing up because we’re talking about, see, again, depends what we’re talking about, we’re talking there’s, there’s things that, that take time, and there’s something that’s not in the realm of time, something that’s not in the realm of time, can’t take time, or it doesn’t make any sense. So whenever you awaken to it, it may be in five years, but it’s still of course, now, right? And you’re, you’re invited to wait, you’re invited to wait into any any time. And, and then there’s the integration of of that in your life as well. So there’s still you know, learning how to function and relationships and function in you know, supporting yourself financially or whatever, whatever the different aspects of being a human being, are. But this recognition of self beyond time and space, can’t take any time or space or else it’s not what it is.

Rick Archer: Right. But again, I Obviously, it’s not something that everyone just awakens to, or recognizes, just like that, even people who want to recognize it, you know, even people who are spiritual seekers, that all they don’t all just sort of recognize it the moment they become spiritual seekers, they recognize something. But, you know, usually for most people, there’s a period of years before, there may be a kind of a profound recognition that is night and day difference.

Brian Piergrossi: I agree. But also, to me the wanting to recognize it becomes seen as unnecessary. There’s no it, there’s nothing outside yourself to recognize. So there’s no it this is one of the big things I see in an Agile community is this whole talk about it, it’s like this. And it’s like that, and this is how you get it. And this is how you find it. And it’s like, you know, it is a conceptualization in the mind that’s being created. And it’s a projection of trying to get the conceptualization that you create in your own mind. So it’s like you’re, you’re, it’s like you’re a dog chasing your own tail, and you created the whole game yourself. And at some point, maybe there’s the realization that I don’t need to play this game. And yeah,

Rick Archer: well, but wanting to recognize it doesn’t necessarily imply that it is outside, one might know full well, but it is an inner recognition, but not yet have had it. Like when you started seeking when you’re around 20, right? Didn’t take you too long before you realize that there was a spiritual dimension and the kingdom of heaven, and all that stuff. But it took quite some time before that became experiential reality for you, and not just something you’re reading in books. Could you have? Could it have happened on day one, when you were 20? The moment you began seeking, I suppose, theoretically, but you know, practically speaking is, is that really, you see that as likely,

Brian Piergrossi: but what I’m what I’m saying from the, from the segment about now is that there really is no hit. But it’s a really important thing for people understand, I feel it’s not an objective. It’s not an object, correct. It’s not object. So this is it, whatever this is, is it. So if you’re feeling sad, right now, this is it. You know, if you’re feeling happy right now, this is it. If you’re feeling like you’re, you know, you want to go down to the grocery store, this is a it’s it’s very, it can be very simple, mundane, you know, it’s not this, this idea, whatever you think it is, it’s not, it’s not what it is, there is no in life, is it? Your it? This is it. Yeah, but you were saying

Rick Archer: before that, you know, your life has now lived on a platform of contentment and of fulfillment, there’s a sort of sense of, of not having a sense of lack. Yeah, I was just gonna say an absence of lack. And spirit for a person whose life doesn’t flow that way. Then you know, you and you and that person could be in the same grocery store, so to speak, shopping, you’re both having very different experiences, because you’re, you’re kind of flowing along in the state of contentment. The other person is thinking, Oh, can I really afford these vegetables and want to have a better job, as I said, of a lack of fulfillment? That is perpetuum for them. Right? So, you know, you and I, as people who are interested in spiritual stuff, and, you know, interested in helping others to wake up, the practical question for us is, you know, what, what can we offer people that’s not just going to be intellectual pablum, but is actually going to affect the kind of shift that will enable them to live on the foundation of fulfillment, that, that, you know, that you’re, you’re referring to?

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, well, a couple of things. I mean, the most, every person is different. So every situation is different with every where everyone’s at, with what they’re experiencing. The most important thing of all, and this may seem like try it, like people have heard this before, but it’s important to really speak to is to live from this place yourself. That was most to live from this place yourself. That’s the most profound way to make a change in the world. And really, it’s the only way to make a change in the world. So you know, people are really interested in sometimes like pointing the finger everybody else and trying to you know, what’s wrong with everybody else and, and, you know, to kind of point to, to redirect your attention back to oneself it realizing that if there is a sense of oneness and if we are part of the world were part of human consciousness, then what we’re looking at other people is, is a part of our own consciousness. And so to really dedicate ourselves to, to being in this moment and showing up in this moment from this space have awakened consciousness is the greatest way to change the world. And, and then from this space, whoever sees that or recognizes that, or whatever they, they know what to take from it or what to get from it based on where they’re at, in their journey or their search or their, their space in their life. And so that’s, that’s the most important thing, or else it becomes it’s an intellectual, you know, discussion that you’re having with a seminar or theoretical discussion.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I agree with all that. You’re, but what you just said was, you know, what’s important is to live from this place yourself and to operate from a space of awakened consciousness. And so for the person who is listening to this, who’s thinking, yeah, that’s all well and good, but I’m not living from a space of awakened consciousness, how do I get to that space of awakened consciousness, I’d like to live from it. And you know, you offer life coaching, your spiritual retreats, and all kinds of things. So you know, what practical method other than just talking to people, which may in itself be a practical method, do you do you offer so that people can live from that space of awakened consciousness or can at least kind of move in the direction of living in that way?

Brian Piergrossi: So So there’s, again, there’s two out there’s two aspects there’s, there’s awakening to essence of who you are beyond time and space. And then there’s, there’s the realm within time and space, the realm within time and space, you can get better at different things. And I’m, I’m and I do assist people in that as well I can, I can show you how to get, you know, healthier with your body, you know, eating better and exercising better and show you how to live, do work that you feel passionate about, and that you love and move towards that. So these things have steps and they take time. And there’s, they happen in increments. Yeah. And

Rick Archer: if you’re a violin Master, you could give violin lessons, people get better at that, and so on.

Brian Piergrossi: Exactly. So now the fun part is, how do you awaken somebody to the run without beyond time and space? Exactly, it doesn’t take time. So it’s, it’s, it’s sort of the opposite. It’s like pointing continually place went back to, you’re not going to get there, there’s no there that you’re going to get to in this realm. It’s, it’s here now, so continually, bringing people back to the now and back to what’s here. And now and to recognize that the essence of who they are, is here and now and creating the the invitation to awaken to now. And the wholeness of now, which is the essence of, of who one is. That’s the short answer to the, to the question,

Rick Archer: okay. And so how do you do that, you’re given a retreat, you have 2030 people, and you want them to awaken to the essence of who they are, what everything

Brian Piergrossi: becomes, everything becomes paradoxical, because the how is the problem, the how, and that’s not even a problem, it becomes like a, you know, it goes deeper and deeper in this thing. And every, every ladder that someone’s trying to create with their ego is to be seen is to be seen for what it is, and not to take the illusion that if you climb the ladder, you’re gonna, you’re gonna get somewhere. So it’s really seeing the story of who you think you are, and realizing that it’s just a story. And realizing that the essence of who you are is not contained by a story is not contained by ego identity. And the story of who you are, is also I think it’s another misperception, I see a lot of times the non dual community, the story is not a problem. It’s not saying you have to get rid of it, you have to get rid of it. That means that it must, you must think it’s real. And if you think it and the the ego is not a problem, if you think you need to get rid of it, you must think it’s real. It’s just seeing it for what it is. And seeing that anything that has structure in the world, the form comes and goes and is not the essence of who we are.

Rick Archer: I forget who said it, somebody said, you know, there’s nothing wrong with building castles in the air. That’s where they belong. Now just build the foundation under them. Said that who is that? I don’t know. Thoreau said, you have quoting somebody. So what you’re saying then, is that just by having a discussion with people and pointing out to them, you know, help, helping them recognize that the conceptual notion of who they are is not fundamental enough, can actually bring about a shift or help facilitate, facilitate a shift to a deeper recognition?

Brian Piergrossi: Well, I think it’s fair to say yes, but there’s more I think that it’s a teacher student relationship. The most important thing would be what I’m called presents, you know, beyond the words like putting it back I totally again, like I would listen to him for 90, you know, 90 minutes or so two hours, you know, these kind of YouTube things that are on there nowadays. And I listen and I think You know, I feel different, I feel more present. I feel like I’m the now. Yeah. And I don’t feel he said anything. I don’t know what he talked for, like 90 minutes, but he didn’t say anything. Like Mine didn’t get anything from it, which is actually which is actually his genius and his brilliance. You know. So it’s, it’s this way of

Rick Archer: his voice is like a Mantra, you just sort of listen to him and it kind of shifts you and settles you down into, into into being here and attunement with where he’s at. Yeah,

Brian Piergrossi: but if the mind can grab something and take something from it, then that’s not, that’s not the intention. Yeah, so it’s the sense of being able to get to talk, but not to not to give the mind things to grab onto and cling to, but some work to bring the mind to open to really fully being here now. And so through discussion, yes, but you can also be being sound together, you know, meditate meditation together, the breath is a great way to bring one to the present moment. So there’s different pointers and different things that we can, we can point to. But they’re all pointing to being here now being fully present here now and recognizing and realizing the essence of who you are. And as you said, which I really liked the term as well being anchored, being anchored in that which is unchanging, which allows you to fully play in that which is changing, because now there’s a sense of fearlessness that you bring to the changing world of form.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Okay, good. So then, as a teacher, you offer a number of tools, meditation, breath, talk, you know, maybe half a dozen other things that can all be effective, and helping people come more into alignment and, you know, establish that anchor.

Brian Piergrossi: But it’s, again, it’s a paradox, because it’s not thinking that those tools are going to help you to get there. It’s awakening to that it’s here. So it’s this paradoxical thing that that, you know, both choose at the same time.

Rick Archer: Yep. It’s like I like to use the analogy of the sun and clouds is then when somebody criticized me for this the other day for one of the interviews. But, you know, the sun is always shining. But let’s say there’s a lot of clouds, and so you don’t see the sun. And so when could be an effective tool for helping to move the clouds. And then once the clouds are moved, you see the sun, but you realize it’s not just you see the sun, you realize, oh, I am the sun. And I’ve always been shining, you know, it didn’t matter whether there were clouds or not. So that’s kind of paradoxical, but it’s somehow relate. So in a sense, you know, techniques and practices at all, from the perspective of realizations seems superfluous, they seem unnecessary, you know, but, but from the perspective of not having had that realization, they can be effective, you know, it takes a thorn to remove a thorn, you know, coming out of a big mud puddle, maybe you have to take some steps in the mud before you reach the edge of the mud and you’re out of it.

Brian Piergrossi: With the sun, it’s like, it’s like the the intention would be to recognize that the sun is there, regardless of whether there’s dark clouds or but yeah, exactly. Whatever kind of Cloudscape you’re having, that the sun is there.

Rick Archer: Yeah. But you know, the average person’s experiences it let’s say, the average person who has read and studied some of this stuff, but has not really had a full realization, they’re probably thinking, Yeah, I know, the sun is there. For me, it’s somewhat cloudy. And, you know, I kind of get an inkling of it, a glimpse of it sometimes more clear, sometimes less clear. But I’d actually want it to be really clear. And so I’m always kind of interested in what can be offered to that person to facilitate that clarity. I think that’s kind of what you’re doing. I mean, yeah, you’re saying on the one hand did don’t worry about Sun’s always shining brightly, but also, here’s some, here’s some tools to help you appreciate that more, in a more loving way.

Brian Piergrossi: So the question is, how do you bring someone back to the street that the sun is there right now? And how do you bring them back to it over and over and over and over until it clicks in? And there’s that shift that yes, yeah, it’s here right now. Exactly. Yeah. So so it’s a sense of the mind, the wall of form is can be very alluring in the world of cranium story of fear is looking very alluring. So it’s easy to, you know, this is interesting, or that’s, you know, I’m gonna cling to that, or I don’t want this but I do want this and you know, this whole wheel of samsara, that that, you know, the Buddha talked about, and so to have something or someone or multiple things that continually bring you back to the essence of The Truth, that’s here and now. That’s, that’s, that’s the that’s the value that’s, you know, this invaluable pointer that we’re talking about.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And it is kind of sticky. I mean, you know, it. It may seem absurd to have to be brought back again and again to something that’s already there, but There is that sort of, in India, they have this analogy where if you want to dye a white cloth, ochre or some some color, you dip it in the dye, and then you bleach it in the sun, and it loses its color in the sun, most of it, but then you dip it again, and you bleach it again, and it loses the color, but not quite as much this time, and you keep repeating that process until it doesn’t matter, you can leave it in the bright sunlight all the time, and it stays fully colored as much so as if it were in the dye. So this this point you made of bringing people back to that again and again. It it it gets, you know, more and more infused in a time comes when it’s fully lived, regardless of you know, there’s no coming back to it anymore. There’s no back and forth, that’s over.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, it’s like, it’s like, this is the essence of who we all are. And then it’s like for the mind that the cognitive mind and the consciousness to align with the essence of who you are. And to and to, as you said, to live from this, from this place.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and of course, the you know, there have been throughout 1000s of years, there have been so many cultures that have dedicated themselves to this or held this as their most important priority, even though it you know, it always gets forgotten and muddled and messed up. But, you know, every probably every major religion was founded on this very point of, you know, recognizing this. And then of course, you end up with all kinds of silly nonsense after a couple 1000 years, you know, all the great, all the great spiritual teachers, this is all what they’re talking about.

Brian Piergrossi: I agree. And and the essence of the grace procedure is what what would be called there were mystics, you know, there was a sense of direct communion in here and now with with the infinite and then people came after didn’t have that same recognition. So then there’s all sorts of commandments and laws and all these things. Do you know, in the essence, that’s here? Now,

Rick Archer: let’s kill the mystics? Because they’re off? They’re off the program? Yeah, very good point. So how do you see your, your teaching as your as your function as a teacher? As a facilitator? How is that evolved over the last however many years, you’ve been trying to do it full time?

Brian Piergrossi: It’s definitely evolved. And I think what I’m talking about today is definitely an evolution. So the sense of recognition, the essence of, of what is beyond time and space, and the realm within time and space, the linear realm, and really addressing both those areas. I think that that’s, that’s been a big evolution. And what I’m teaching and sharing now, I would give someone I haven’t mentioned yet, actually, who I like, has been important to me is Ken Wilber and the integral, Mitzvah life practice, I think is a great book. And so that’s been an important part of the evolution of what I’m sharing and teaching.

Rick Archer: When you first contacted me, you, you said

Brian Piergrossi: some things about the non-dual community that

Rick Archer:  yeah, you have some criticism of what currently currently passes is the non dual community which I feel your show can have great. We can have a discussion about that. I’m sometimes like criticized for picking on the non dual community too much. It’s like I have some kind of axe to grind. And, you know, and it’s not like I’m having any kind of objection. I think non duality is the ultimate reality. It’s cast me out. But but the way it’s sometimes interpreted and presented, I have an issue with so what were you alluding to when you said that?

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, well, we touched on quite a few of it already. But one thing that really, you know, is this whole thing of it, you know, it’s this is it, and this is in Mrs. Watts aid and this whole discussion of it. And really, that’s, first of all, it’s not that’s dualistic, you’re creating an aid that’s separate from yourself, which is an idea and you’re trying to maintain this idea, like a trophy that you can hold up and show to everybody. And that’s not the real that’s not the reality, it’s not the realization of non dual is no separation is not to and is the recognition of that which is here now, which is not in the conceptualization of an idea or a story or a or a hero that achieves whatever he achieved or she achieved. So that’s one there was something else that was my mind I just set my mind there’s this there’s lots of things but it’s just the sense of, oh, yeah, the the becomes a specific thing, and I’ll do a community of looking for that which is changes looking for the essence. So there’s been some discovery of that. And then seeing the world that’s separate from that, that realization or that Enlightenment. And really again, that’s a duality. It’s not needed. It’s not non dual. So that’s the big thing that I really see in it. And this is, you know, I was thinking to my own journey as well, I went through and saw these different stages in myself. But what I really see is that non dual is having no separation between the spirit spiritual, what spiritual and life or the world of form, and really giving yourself fully to what’s here in the moment, in the world of form, is that’s what is at the same time proxy, the transcendence of the water form and the changeless.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I was interviewing a guy a couple weeks ago named Chobot G. And he made the point that non dual teaching traditionally is actually the final teaching, right? It’s not necessarily the initial teaching. And as I understand, you know, the word the whole non duality concept comes from Vedanta, which means the end of the Veda. And, and it doesn’t mean the whole, all the Veda is not, Veda means knowledge, it doesn’t mean that all the Veda is useless. It just means okay, here’s the final teaching that if you’ve gone through all the stages of development, and gotten to this stage, now this is for you. And actually a very, it’s considered a far preliminary or prior stage, this thing you just mentioned, where there’s a duality between absolute and relative. And the two are seen as distinct and separate. That’s like kindergarten, compared to the recognition of the total of the whole holistic, totality oneness of everything. That’s the, that’s the kind of final teaching.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, and you remind me of something else. That is another thing for me is, this is Western culture that we’re in this is America, or wherever people are listening to this, if they’re in Western culture, it’s not India, and to translate Indian culture to American culture is not Enlightenment. It’s just culture, you know, a few Sanskrit terms and to wear different clothes and to, you know, practice different meditation in India is not self realization, it’s not Enlightenment, and it’s not spiritual awakening. Spiritual Awakening itself, relation transcends culture. So certainly nothing wrong with a new culture, new culture is wonderful, but it’s not. It’s not spiritual awakening. You want to say something,

Rick Archer: but that, oh, I was just gonna say, I agree with you, you know, but I also sort of say, we don’t have to completely reinvent the wheel. There, you know, as an ancient, ancient tradition, I was listening to the other day, I think it was Kurt Johnson, or he was talking with Ken Wilber. And he was saying it’s funny, because in science, we think of new as good. But in spirituality, we seem to think of old is good. And, you know, this old stuff can’t be improved upon or, you know, we can’t learn anything new, we just have to stick to the old teachings. And he was suggesting that, you know, even in that field, we can respect the old teachings, but it doesn’t mean that they’re cutting stone, that there can be even further development now in light of our modern understanding of things.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, exactly. So that’s what I’m interested, I’m interested in, in terminology and ways of speaking to things and pointing to things and metaphors. For this time, you know, for our time, for this culture, beyond dogma, beyond superstition, just really just, you know, things that are very clear and for the time that we’re in now. And certainly we draw from the past, we draw from all across to the past and have appreciation and respect for what’s parts of this point. But we’re at this point now, you know, and moving forward from here,

Rick Archer: but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because there are people who say, Oh, you know, all that Eastern stuff is, you know, let’s just blow it off. And gurus you don’t need a guru and know anybody who’s following a guru is sort of, you know, being silly or something. I just kind of, you know, if somebody doesn’t want to follow a guru, I respect that if somebody does I respect that. And, like, every, every kind of path has its value. And, you know, people aren’t necessarily going to always do the same thing. They might be following a guru and now 10 years from now they’re not, or vice versa. So, you know,

Brian Piergrossi: I think the main thing for me that I would like to share with the listening is what is it working for you? Yeah, exactly. It’s working for you stay with it. And more power to it was not changed it. Beautiful. If you’re going to church every Sunday, and that’s working for you. Great, you know, if there’s a point where it’s not working for you, then try something different.

Rick Archer: Yep. Yep, one size does not fit all. totally agree with that. So what else should we talk about?

Brian Piergrossi: What else should we talk about?

Rick Archer: What else floats your boat, you know, that we haven’t covered? And what things inspire you? What topics interest you what, what people have you do you find fascinating,

Brian Piergrossi: I think it’s exciting that there’s there’s I feel like there’s a speaking we were just speaking to there is this great appreciation and respect for the teachings that have brought us to this point and the teachers that have brought us to this point and the cultural the culture is interested by this point, I also tell you, there’s this new wave of teachers and healers. And I think it’s exciting and I feel there’s a sort of a different energy that’s being brought forward, it’s a little bit more, it’s not quite as serious and dry, so the more playful and fun and, and loose and, and it’s more as talked about before, it’s, I think it’s more of recognition of, of not having, not being caught the illusion of trying to separate yourself from the world. But really being in the world and, and living in the world fully. And whatever that means for you. And recognizing the essence of yourself beyond time and space. That’s, that’s whole here. And now. And also, at the same time, which is in time and space, which can get better and better and continue to reach higher levels of potential and, and growth. So that’s, I think, something exciting is this. And also, I think anything can say to there is what I see too is this new wave, business identify with any particular tradition, or dogma. But just, you know, truth that’s beyond dogma or tradition.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So you’re saying that traditionally, spirituality had this reclusive connotation that yeah, you kind of had to get out of the world. And if you if you really wanted to develop spiritually, and now you can have your cake and eat it, too. And it’s, maybe you’re even implying that it’s a more complete type or more truth.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, more. True. I think that there is this perception that the world is bad, you’ve put in simple terms, the world is what causes seen or illusion or whatever the different terms are. And we’re seeing now that that’s not the case, that if there’s if there’s, if there’s suffering, if we’re causing suffering, it’s our it’s our, our misperception of reality, or misunderstanding of who we really are.

Rick Archer: And heard someone else really someone the other day, they were, they were saying, you know, there’s a, there’s a phase in which maybe you do have to step back from the world, because if you’re so caught up and conditioned in it, it might be hard to break that conditioning. So like, if you want to give up if you have an alcoholic addict, alcoholic addiction, and you want to give it up, don’t hang out bars, you know, you need to sort of step away from that. But, you know, eventually you might reach the point at which you can associate with alcoholics in order to help them you can be in that milieu, and, and not be tempted by it or, you know, fall prey to its temptation. So, you know, like, we’re saying, you know, whatever works for you, there might be a validity to the stage of being more reclusive, more withdrawn from active engagement. But then eventually, you’ve got to turn that around and, and learn to integrate the silence with the activity if you really want to write package.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s a little bit of a so that’s let me clarify something there. So I’m not saying that you shouldn’t slow down or you shouldn’t take time for yourself, or you shouldn’t know. Yeah, that’s so that’s, that’s, that’s a separate? Yeah, it’s just everything which is can be great. Whatever phase you’re at the fact I think, generally speaking, people in America are, you know, slowing down would be a good thing. For for most Americans.

Rick Archer: I mean, you know, how much caffeine people consume, just to kind of keep up the rat race is frightening.

Brian Piergrossi: Then there’s the idea that the world of form is a problem or is or is bad, or really engaging in life or engaging in sensuality, or sexuality or just that just the fullness of life is, is a barrier to something. And, and the realization, I think, is that it’s not the world, the world of form, is not a barrier to anything, the world of form is just the world of form. And if something’s appearing in front of you, you know, appreciating it as a reflection of the essence of the one whatever it is, so that it becomes really embracing all the parts of yourself You know, and not thinking that this part is holy, but this part is not holy or this part is enlightened, but this part is ignorant. That itself is the essence of if there is an ignorance, then that is the essence here is this discretion of duality and separation that that God is not everywhere at all times.

Rick Archer: It’s an old Steven Wright joke, which I used to tell in his interviews, but I haven’t talked for a couple of years since I broke up with my girlfriend, because I wasn’t really into meditation, and she really wasn’t into being alive. Yeah. Cool. So if people want to get in touch with you, or, you know, what, what might you be able to offer them? By way of, you know, some kind of spiritual teaching or counseling, or retreats or whatever you do? Yes, there’s

Brian Piergrossi: a lot. There’s a lot of offerings that I have right now. So there’s the two books, the big glow, and the wild. And now, there’s some audio courses as well, which are available through my website. There’s retreats. There’s locally in Nashville, there’s a I’ve been doing a weekly meeting Monday nights, called awakening to power is that working Qatar right now, which is interesting, because

Rick Archer: silica, and I know that there’s you and then to

Brian Piergrossi: prajna prajna. And they’re all my friends. And we’re all that sort of thing. Like we’re all this kind of kind of new wave of kind of a little bit more youthful energy coming on forward. So it’s great to be friends with those guys. Yeah. And girls. So waking the power is interesting, because I think it’s another thing is that there’s this there’s this kind of integral community, this kind of shyness of being empowered or you know, that whole non No, no Doer sort of thing. And so a friend of mine was saying, when I first mentioned the term switch Seva, I have trouble with the word power. And so that’s the point. That’s why That’s why I call it that. So power not in the sense of trying to control people or manipulate people. Powerless as Eckhart Tolle is term Power of Now, when you’re, you know, when you’re here, you’re aligned with that, which is the energy and currency that runs through all beings and all things at all times. And when you when you realize that you’re not going to be in resistance to it now, but fully say yes to it. So anyway, so retreat.

Rick Archer: Note of power, there’s a lot of power in the sun, you know? Yeah. That’s the big glow. So power doesn’t necessarily have a negative connotation. It doesn’t mean sort of

Brian Piergrossi: No, not at all. Right. Right. And I think that the more that we awaken to speaking of events, you know, he’s said a phrase recently, you’re infinitely worthy, you know, and the more that we we recognize that, then power doesn’t become a bad thing. It just becomes natural that yeah, you know, we’re part of this power that runs through of life. So anyway, just to finish up the offerings here. So there’s a there’s a new online video program that I created with a couple other friends of mine called panic of freedom, which is panic, your freedom,

Rick Archer: panic to freedom. Okay. Yeah.

Brian Piergrossi: So this is for people that are dealing with anxiety or panic and for principals to move into that space as online video course, then there’s a personal coaching that I do with people as well. And I think that’s the covers most of it.

Rick Archer: Do you do this full time? Yes. Nice. Are you able to manage it? So first of all? Good. Okay, well, we need more people doing this full time. You know, I mean, sometimes people say, people are always too quick to go out and start teaching, why don’t they just get a job? Why don’t why don’t they why they have to be a teacher. But I think as long as there’s an honest acknowledgement that, you know, hey, I don’t have necessarily all the answers, but I do have something of value to offer here. And I want to dedicate my energies to offering it and if you find it a of use, then great, you know, and if you don’t then find something else that’s of use, as long as there’s that sort of little bit of humility, and, you know, just sense of giving more than taking, then I have no problem with the proliferation of teachers that seems to be taking place these days.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, that the main thing is, as you said earlier, is you know, are you if, wherever you are, are you benefiting from who you’re working with? You know, and is it valuable for you and to really check yourself and, and, and that’s the key you know, it’s it’s, it’s, I find that it’s what I tell people when they come to the beatings with me is your level of presidents is going to dictate what comes out of this tonight to this evening or whatever it’s or whatever it is, if this, we got to go beyond this the sense of entertainer and audience, you know, it’s not like I’m just going to show up, and let’s see what you can do for me, you know, you’re fully engaged, and then you’ll that’s what you’ll get the fruits of, of what comes forward. So being fully engaged, being present, and then then if you’re in that space, you’re going to move, you’re going to learn something from the people that you’re engaging with, and just determining, determining if it’s still valuable for you, or if it’s if it’s placed to shift or buts willing to take charge and empowerment for yourself.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s a saying that, you know, the amount of water you draw from a reservoir depends on the size of the pipe, you bring you hook up to it, you know, you put a drinking straw, you’re not gonna draw too much. Put a big pipe, there’ll be a lot. So it’s not just up to the teacher to, you know, well, just what you said. Yeah, it’s a it’s a cooperative relationship, and everyone is part of the game. Yeah. Agreed. Cool. So have you covered the points of the things that you offer? Or anything more to say about that?

Brian Piergrossi: I think that’s it. I mean, there can be some specific events in different places, but people can check the website for that info.

Rick Archer: And the website is Brian Pierre And I’ll be linking to that. So don’t worry about the spelling at all.

Brian Piergrossi: There’s there’s a there’s a separate domain a tune, which, which is the big Oh, he big G ello.

Rick Archer: Are they’re identical. Yes, they

Brian Piergrossi: go to the same place. So one just forwards to the other. Yeah, two different domains. It’s a fear for domains, actually. But they all go to the same. It’s kind of like, different paths to the same truth. Right. Right.

Rick Archer: Okay, yeah. So the big glow redirects to Byron, Brian Pierre Grassi. Good. Okay, great. So, thanks. This has been fun.

Brian Piergrossi: Yeah, it’s been fun. Rick, thanks so much. I appreciate the work that you’re doing. And it’s been my pleasure and honor to share this time with you. Yeah, I

Rick Archer: mean, to say hi to all my friends down there. Let me make a few concluding remarks. You’ve been listening to or watching an interview with Brian Brian Pierre Grossie. And this is a ongoing series. So every week, there’s a new one. If you’d like to see what other ones there are listened to go to Bat gap. And you can subscribe to the email notification, you’ll get an email each time I post a new one, you’ll also see a list on the right hand side of all the people I’ve interviewed in alphabetical order, and you can pick and choose and listen to some. I’m also going to put up a page where they’re listed in chronological order because some people have been asking for that. There is a link there to an audio podcast if you’d like to subscribe to the podcast and listen on your iPad. And there is a discussion group that crops up around each interview. So feel free to participate in that usually anywhere from 100 to several 100 posts are, are put up by various people during during the week and they get quite interesting sometimes. There’s also a donate button which I appreciate people clicking if they have the capacity, it helps me to continue doing this and perhaps to do it, you know, even more full time. So that’s about it. So thanks for listening or watching and we’ll see you next week.