Adam C. Hall Transcript

Adam C. Hall Interview

Summary:

Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer and my guest today is Adam C. Hall and I have glasses on because I’m going to read the back cover of his book to introduce him. We have entered an era like none other in history. The economy of the Western world and the ecology of the entire planet are threatened with the possibility of imminent collapse. In the midst of these dire circumstances, a dramatic shift is occurring within human consciousness. And I would like to interject here that I believe that these two are not just coincidental, that a dramatic shift is happening. There’s a deep interrelationship between what’s happening in the world in terms of dire straits and this upwelling of human consciousness. We’ll talk about that during the interview. Back to Adam’s intro, the ancient prophecies of the Hopi, Maya and Inca, among others, all point to this moment as the time when humanity will undergo a rapid evolution within a single generation, that will affect all future generations and evolve, we must, if we were to remain as a viable species on a healthy planet. Adam C. Hall achieved the American dream in all its glory and then woke up to the nightmare of his own life condition. Once a financial power broker and real estate developer, Adam undertook a life-changing metamorphosis that would ultimately alter his mindset from earth conqueror to earth keeper. To come this far, Adam had to come to terms with the misery that was at the center of his very privileged and comfortable life. He endured the loss of all that he treasured most. It was only then that he was finally able to open to discover the creative power of the universe that is hidden within each of us. The Earth Keeper ultimately chronicles, that’s his book that I’m reading here, The Earth Keeper ultimately chronicles, Adam’s remarkable journey and illuminates a path for others to follow. Once a conquistador who felt entitled to rule over the earth, Adam transformed into a nature-centric under developer dedicated to maintaining harmony and balance within Gaia’s all-providing garden. As founding steward and managing partner of the Earth Keeper alliance, Adam now preserves pristine wilderness by making allies of developers and conservationists, demonstrating that every one of us has a greater destiny to which we can awaken. In Indiana Jones’ saga of exotic adventure and redemption, The Earth Keeper is a remarkable story of courage and conviction and a roadmap to a better future, personally and collectively. So, the timing was such, Adam, that I managed to read this entire book cover to cover. That doesn’t always happen. And it was very enjoyable, and quite frankly I was really hoping that you would still be alive when we did this Interview, because just about every other page in this book you nearly kill yourself doing something or other. So, it was quite an entertaining story and I think we’ll probably recapitulate the story during our interviews, just so people get a sense of what you’ve been through and what’s in the book and so on.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. That’s great. Well, it’s great to be here with you, Rick, and all of your audience. And I love the name of your show, Buddha at the Gas Pump. Where did you come up with that, by the way?

Rick: A young friend of mine came up with it. I was sort of dreaming up a few different names and they were all sort of trite, like Awakenings and so on. And none of them was gelling. And I asked this friend for some ideas, and he spat out about a dozen of them just like that. He’s a young guy in his 20s. And Buddha at the Gas Pump was immediately, “Got to do it. That’s it.” And I think you get the implication. It’s just that in this day and age, in ordinary circumstances, there are people awakening to states of consciousness, states of enlightenment that were once considered rare or exclusive to rare, rare beings. But there’s sort of an epidemic underway these days. So, that’s how we came up with the name.

Adam: Well, thanks. I was actually at the gas pump the other day and of course thought of you and the upcoming show. And I was really pondering, “What is this Buddha at the gas pump?” And of course, I was pumping the gas, so I guess I was the Buddha at the gas pump.

Rick: There you go. I could have called it Buddha at the supermarket or Buddha at the laundromat or something. And in fact, some people in Australia said that, down there they call it Petrol and gas pump has sort of a flatulent implication. But we went with gas pump and people seemed to like it.

Adam: It was interesting because it also took me back to, “What am I filling my tank with? What am I pumping into my life?” And of course, one of the great things about humanity is we have free will to make those kind of choices. So, it’s interesting, what do we put into our own personal tank? And I think the name of the show is fantastic, and I commend you for all the good work that you’re sharing with everybody.

Rick: Thanks, it’s a lot of fun. So, as the intro stated that I read, you were living the American dream. You had a 6,000 square foot house in Malibu, was it? And making lots of money, beautiful wife, beautiful kids, the whole deal. A life that most people, many people would envy. But something wasn’t right and you got a stronger and stronger impulse welling up from within you, that you just couldn’t keep doing this. It wasn’t clicking, it wasn’t working for you anymore, right?

Adam: Well, it was literally killing me. And I lived by the law of the jungle, at least the law that I was told. I found out the true law of the jungle later on in my journey. But that law was when you get up in the morning, whether you’re the lion or the gazelle, you better run like hell, eat or be eaten. And so, Rick, I lived a life of getting up before that sun came up and headed straight out the door to the office and was living that hard charging life. And I’ll never forget one morning I was heading down the Pacific Coast Highway from Malibu into my offices in West Los Angeles. The sun was coming up over the Santa Monica Bay and I was on the phone to a banker on Wall Street. We were in the midst of a major negotiation on a large loan transaction and it went awry. And before I knew it, I found myself cursing out loud and being just disgusted by this whole game that I seemed to be playing. And then suddenly a dog ran in front of the Range Rover, and I screeched on the brakes, practically had a heart attack. And I just pulled the car over and said, “My God, what’s happening with my life?” And it’s just like I was reaching for the tums ,and it became pretty evident that there was a course correction that was due and that it was immediate, and that I could no longer procrastinate putting off the inevitable unfolding of my life and where I needed to go, although I didn’t know at the time. So that’s kind of the beginning of it all, of that quest to answer some of life’s most important questions.

Rick: That’s interesting. I was thinking as I was reading your book of historical examples of people who weren’t the nicest guys in the world but whose lives kind of got turned around by some sort of spiritual epiphany. For instance, Saul on the road to Damascus who became Saint Paul, he was like a persecutor of Christians, and he underwent this profound sort of awakening and completely changed his life. So, another example is Valmiki who wrote the Ramayana, he was a roadside robber, and some sages came walking along one day and I won’t tell the whole story, but through this encounter he had with them he turned his life around. He began to question everything that he had assumed and turned his life around and went into deep meditation for like six or seven years or something. In fact, an anthill was supposedly built up around his body, he went so deep, he was oblivious to it. Valmiki means “ant-borne sage” or something. And then he ended up writing the Ramayana. But in any case, just a couple of cases in point, there are many stories like this, where people had been dead set on a particular, kind of more materialistic path and then something woke up inside and they couldn’t do it anymore and their life underwent a transformation.

Adam: Well, you’re right on with that Rick, and it’s not just a metamorphosis or transformation. I often think of my journey as what I would refer to as a metanoia.

Rick: What does that mean?

Adam: Well, that is a transformation that takes place that becomes so, you become so intent, you become so focused in your process, that it actually relieves the psyche and the physical body of all the energies and experiences that had affected that person over a lifetime, or lifetimes for that matter, if you believe in that stuff. So, the metanoia is actually moving away from the old definition of self and the old experience of self. And that’s why I often say the book is really about Adam 1-0 to Adam 2-0. So that’s kind of the process that I reference as a metanoia of letting go of those old stories, painful, or old actions that perhaps didn’t serve you or your community or your family or anybody. And so hence the subtitle of The Earthkeeper, “Undeveloping the Future.”

Rick: And this transformation isn’t always easy, is it? Because you don’t know where you’re going. It’s a kind of a jack-in-the-beanstalk story where you’re trading in the family cow for some magic beans and your mother thinks you’re crazy and you don’t know if these beans are going to amount to anything, and yet you have to take this leap of faith.

Adam: Well, no doubt about it. And it’s interesting, because when I initially started my inquiry, which began well before I really got focused and intentional about getting on the path and awakening to my greater calling in life. But before that, I really became a voracious reader of both Eastern and Western modalities. I was brought up in the Protestant Church to a limited degree. And ultimately, one of the things that I recognized, even with all the great teachers and the great gurus and whatnot, that at the end of the day, it’s ultimately about creating your own experience, to be making that journey and that quest, for whatever that may be for you to make that experiential. And so, the path that I’ve been on and what I do share, is one of not as an intellectual process, which that process works as well. There’s no right or wrong. There are many ways to transcend yourself. But of course, for me, it was really about having the greater experience of that awakening and heading out into that unknown like you referenced. And it’s fascinating because I go on quest, vision quest, periodically, generally about every couple year and get off the grid and get into environments that are unknown. And the idea of that really is, it makes me think, Rick, about what The Course in Miracles says about fear and about the unknown. And that is, it’s not the unknown itself that we fear. It’s the idea that it’s unknown. Because ultimately, what I found stepping into those unknown spaces or those uncharted waters, so to speak, is, wow, there’re gems there. There’re so many wonderful things. And I don’t know much about your path, but I would presume you’ve found, have had similar types of experiences.

Rick: I’ve never been, I don’t think I’ve ever been quite as brave and adventurous as you, although I’ve done all sorts of wild things. And it was very impulsive, acting on impulses and hunches, which ended up working out for me. But yours really was a bit of an Indiana Jones tale in terms of the physical activities that you got involved in. But before we get into more of that, I just wanted to comment on something you just said about experience, which I think is really important, because there are millions of people in the world, billions, who don’t really have an experience of the things in which they believe. They’re just going on faith, and that is good enough for them. Or maybe they have some kind of intermediary who tells them that such and such is the case, or will appeal to God on their behalf, or some such thing. And there are even people in the newer spiritual movements, New Age or Neo-Advaita or whatever, who seem to be conceptualizing to a great degree without actually having the living experience of what they’re talking about. But personally, I think it’s about as effective as reading a menu and not actually eating the meal or having someone eat the meal for you and tell you about it or something. You actually, have to have this experience yourself. No one can do it for you.

Adam: That’s a critical point, and I’m so glad you’re emphasizing it. And it’s like the difference is: are you living your life to the fullest, or is life living you? And it’s like, what choices are we making? And the choices that we make experientially are the ones that ultimately get into our greater place of feeling and intuition. And what I found is that for 42 of my 53 years, I was really stuck in my left brain. And while I appreciate that and the intelligence of that, there was a whole other world that I had yet to discover. And that whole other world, it necessitates, at least it did for me, that it be experiential.

Rick: Yep.

Adam: And that I can taste it, feel it, look at it, and beyond. I can feel it intuitively into a greater, beyond those five senses that we all have. And so hence, the book is very experiential. And yes, it is adventurous, and I think it’s kind of my Arian nature to want to get out on the edge of it all. And that’s where I’ve been pretty much for the last 10 years, and having a lot of fun with it. But that’s not to say it’s not without challenges and all the things that come with being a human being, if you know what I mean

Rick: Sure. Well, in a way, you became a spiritual seeker in the same way that you were a businessman. You were a businessman who wasn’t content to do a nine-to-five job and who took risks and who thought big and so on. And when you started getting into spirituality, you brought those same qualities to that quest.

Adam: Well, yes, indeed. And I’m a strong advocate, Rick, that to discover our greater capacity to live life in its fullest ways. What occurred for me, was you can’t just put your toe in the water. Let’s get in. Let’s give it a ride. Let’s go for it. And sure enough, just in that process of showing up for whatever was calling me at the time, it was one thing led to another. And I met one guide, one trusted mystic, one teacher, and ultimately connected deeply with nature and Mother Earth as perhaps one of the great teachers that we all have, and it’s readily available. She’s here to serve us and to hold us and love us. So that was all about taking that first step in showing up and moving myself forward, because my sense is that if I did not do so, first and foremost, I wouldn’t be of any use or good to my three amazing daughters, and I have a beautiful granddaughter now. And secondarily, how could I fulfill my life’s journey and serve this planet at a time when this planet is calling all of us, I believe, to really show up in a new and more dynamic and purposeful way. So, it’s all a process and a good one, and I honor all of you folks that are in that process and doing that, because you have a comrade in arms in me, and I get it

Rick: Yeah, I love that point about showing up and about just taking the next step. And what is that old proverb, “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step,” or something like that, and that as you take the step, then the next opportunity presents itself. There’s a great book by Suzanne Siegel called “Collision with the Infinite,” where her mantra became, “Do the next obvious thing, it will present itself. Just do the next obvious thing, and then one thing after another will unfold.”

Adam: Well, I would second that, and when I certainly was out in the wilderness, per se, there was all kinds of interesting signposts that came along, and that could have been, as I shared a story in the book about when I went to the Hopi and Navajo nations on, really, on my first big quest, out in the middle of the winter in a storm, there was an old Indian man standing out there at Minton, and kind of looking at me sternly, Rick, like “What’s wrong with you, white man? This is a snowy, stormy day. Look around, there is nobody here, and you should not be here either.”

Rick: And you went out anyway.

Adam: Yeah, I went out anyway.

Rick: Nearly froze to death.

Adam: I shared with him, I said, ” I may be a young man, but I’m looking to get my feet on the ground and on this sacred earth that you have shared over the millennia,” and he just shook his head, “Go ahead, have it your way. Go ahead if you want.”

Adam: Yeah. You know what it kind of reminds me of is the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where Richard Dreyfuss, he gets zapped by the aliens and then he has this vision implanted and he has to pursue it. And all of the conventional forces, from his wife to his friends to the government, everything else is trying to tell him he’s crazy and to get him to stop, and he just can’t stop. He’s just driven, making mountains out of his mashed potatoes, trying to, “What is this? It means something.” I’m sure you’ve seen the movie.

Adam: Exactly. It’s like you just begin to salivate. Ken Wilber wrote that book, One Taste, and it is the one taste of the capacity and the fullness that we all share in our humanity. But that one taste was certainly what is something that I began to doggedly pursue the greater truth of my existence. And as you’ve been sharing, it’s been a hell of a ride and a hell of an adventure in fulfilling and opening me to just to new and wonderful things in life that I never even dreamed that existed. So, it’s neat. And that one taste, better watch out, you might get hooked.

Rick: Let’s retrace our steps and get into some of the specifics. So, you had that incident where you almost hit the dog on the Pacific Coast Highway, and you’re really stressed out, and your business was doing well, but something was telling you, you had to do something else. And then you brought this news to your wife, like, “I’ve got to go on to this spiritual quest or something.” So obviously she wasn’t too enthusiastic about that, but you kind of kept plowing ahead anyway, and one thing kept leading to the next. What was one of the first, I guess one of the first really outside-the-box things you did was to announce that you were shutting down your business?

Adam: Well, it’s interesting the decisions that we all make, and the decisions that I made at that time were profound, like the one you just mentioned, just shutting down the business. And I had been to a holiday party, Rick, at a friend of mine’s house in one of those big she/she/fancy types of parties, and they had a palm reader there. And I had always kind of just smirked at those type of things as kind of woo-woo, far out, new-agey type of stuff. And so, I was a skeptic, but my wife at the time nudged me, “Go there, go over there and spend time.” So, I ended up going and sitting with this palm reader, and she said one word, “separation.” Separation. You are experiencing separation. And I became obsessed with that word. What was she talking about? Am I supposed to separate from my wife? What is this, this life? And then I picked up a few books and started thinking about all of this, and ultimately what I chose, and I’m not necessarily recommending any of the experiences that I had, because your path and each of your path is your path. And that’s key. And ultimately, the path that I took was, well, I needed to take a respite and a time out, so to speak, from life in its entirety, because I felt that I was in danger of jeopardizing my own well-being, and those of those that I love. And that, so it began with shutting down the business and just recognizing what is going to be true in my life and what are the, who are the people that I want to cultivate and surround myself with and support. And so, I couldn’t do it in an old structure, an old model. And I couldn’t, I made a choice that I needed to separate from my wife at the time. So, I was a bit of swerving the bus, so to speak.

Rick: You gave her the opportunity to join you. In fact, you got on your knees and almost begged her to join you, but she wasn’t ready to do that.

Adam: She was not ready to do that. And that was a critical point when I went down for a stroll on the sand in Malibu and asked her, “Whatever has occurred or whatever’s going on, let’s do it, let’s work on this and do it together.” And all the therapy and the marriage counseling, that, she decided to not even stop going to that. And then I recognized, well, I’m going to have to take this journey alone.

Rick: There’s an old Bengali saying, it’s, “If no one comes on your call, then go ahead alone.”

Adam: Yes. Yes. So that was what was guided, obviously offered to me. And I said, “Okay, well, then those are the choices I need to make.” And my inquiry into separation got a lot deeper really fast after that.

Rick: At some point, some sort of disembodied voice came into the picture. So, what was her name? Lisa or something? Some guardian angel type thing was starting to happen.

Adam: Well, yes. And her name was Lila.

Rick: Lila, right.

Adam: And that is the essence of In Sancto. Sancto is the play of life. And this, it was really, I was really in the midst of what some say, Rick, is that dark night of the soul, where, you don’t know if you’re going to make it or not. And I had no idea. And I was drinking too much. And I was moved into, from the 6,000 square foot big house I had built a few years before, to a 600 square foot little place down in Malibu. It was a nice shack, I must say. But it was, I certainly downsized. And one morning after, I woke up with a, just a terrible hangover. And I took a walk on the ocean and seaside. And the ocean happened to be lapping back and forth very gently. It was very calm. And the birds were out. And it was very quiet. Nobody was out. And I sat down. And I put my head down and just began to weep and asking for help of where should I go? Where should I go? And that’s when I first heard this soft, loving, kind, nurturing voice. And I looked up like, “Oh, somebody around?” And I, “Wait a minute, I’m losing my mind.” But I sat for a moment and took a few deep breaths. And there was the voice. And it was this voice that I gave the name Lila to. And she really ultimately became one of the angels in my life. And a guiding energy, a loving, guiding, nurturing energy. And I believe that when we attune ourselves inwardly, and to listen, to listen, to listen deeply, to listen within, that within us all, there is that angel or that voice that is ultimately serves as a great guide. And in many traditions, in particular, Eastern traditions, Lao Tzu often speaks of that inner sage. And so, however you want to language it, it’s truly that inner sage or one of the inner sages. You may have more than one.

Rick: Yeah, yeah, it could be just interpreted as one’s own sort of deeper intuition, and you’re just giving a name and a voice to it. It could also be interpreted as being an actual guardian angel of some sort. And that whole thing actually fascinates me. I’ve just been writing something this morning because I’m putting together a proposal for a presentation about that topic. And I’m going to have a group discussion in late May with four people, all of whom have stabilized perception of subtle realms of creation and see angels and what not as routinely as you and I see people walking through the mall. But in any case, that’s a whole interesting area for exploration, is the subtle realms of creation that can be open to our perception if the senses are refined enough to see them. But for many people, it comes not as a sort of a regular phenomenon, but just as some kind of impulse that comes every now and then, “Do this, don’t do that.”

Adam: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in my sense, not to be dismissive of that, of the idea of an angel or a voice, whatever, it doesn’t matter. What matters is what we’re feeling and what we’re called to and what’s heard. And so, I spent very little time in the questioning of the experience, and lots of time in the cultivation of the experience, yet still interjecting questions that were about guidance, not about credibility, like, “Who are you?” or “What is your code?” or anything like that. And I don’t mean dismiss any of that. But what I’m saying to, what I would say is an everyday person on the path, getting on the path, cultivating the path, crystallizing their own life and their journeys, “Hey, it’s really about the experience that you’re having.” And just what I found, honor that and honor all those seen and unseen that I began to interact with big time after that first intersection with Lila.

Rick: Yeah, just about every spiritual tradition has iconography, paintings, statues, scriptural discussions of these unseen intelligences. And some of them actually say that when somebody makes the decision to get on the path, as you put it, to aspire for deeper spiritual realization, it’s like the angels rejoice. It’s like, “Oh boy, we got a live one here, boys. Let’s give him some juice.” And you do get a lot of support, and a lot of subtle encouragement and help from who knows where. You don’t necessarily perceive where it’s coming from, but it’s there. And so many people can relate to what you’re saying here, I think, in terms of their own experience.

Adam: Well, you’re right on with that, Rick. And ultimately, the little nudge that moves you to the right or moves you to the left, or it says, “Okay, let’s step back for a moment. Let’s take a pause to honor ourselves and what’s unfolding.” Those little nudges, those little impulses come from the universe. And one of the things that was fascinating for myself and one of the reasons why I gravitated to the work that I was doing on the path, of course, there’s so many amazing modalities and teachings and wisdom keepers and earth keepers and the few avatars that we’ve had in our lifetimes during this lifetime of the planet. It’s all good. And ultimately, all is about cultivating our greater truth of who we are in our own humanity, individually, but collectively. And one of the things that I found, and it also ties kind of into the experiential nature of it. I wasn’t interested in tinkering around or fiddling around through this life or another life or two or whatever to really show up. So, I created an intentionality of cultivating to the best of my human capacity and the best of my reasoning and rational self, and also the part of myself that wasn’t so reasoning or rational, to hold all of those capacities to ultimately really to show up in a quantum way, to show up in a level of that really says, we can move beyond just an incremental step. We can jump and unfold into my greater calling and to really dream a life that I was being called to, to live that. And so that’s why, Rick, I really gravitated to shamanic traditions and to the traditions of the indigenous cultures of the world, but primarily indigenous cultures of the Americas, meaning the Native Americans, Hopi Navajo in particular, the Mayan, and to even a greater extent, the Incan traditions that I really gravitated to. And all those indigenous traditions, really the practice of aligning with earth, with the Pachamama and the stars, was their connectivity was essential to earth and to the universe. And so, the shaman in those communities really what some would say were walkers of the worlds. In other words, they lived and resided in the manifest world, the visible world, but ultimately operated out of time and in a place what is often referred to as infinity. There’s no time or space. There is only connectivity, the oneness of it all. So, to walk between those two worlds and those traditions have been instrumental in helping me on the path to balance spirituality, the scene and aspects of my life, the physical, what you’re seeing now, with also what is the spiritual aspects in my greater connectivity to the cosmos. So, I don’t want to be rambling on here and I don’t mean to get too sidetracked, so forgive me, but it’s quite fascinating that we really live in an amazing time, that in this time on this planet, and in particular over the last 30 to 40 years, the ability for each of us to fully blossom or fully awaken into what we all carry, which is an enlightened state of being, to awaken to that, to shed the old skin like a snake sheds its skin, to do that in a quantum leap into this greater awareness and enlightenment.

Rick: Yeah, beautiful. There’s a lot of really nice nuggets in what you just said. There’s that Chinese proverb, “May you be born in interesting times or may you live in interesting times,” and I think what you just said, what makes these times interesting, is not only the severity of the crises we face, but the evolutionary opportunity that we also face or have. And I interviewed the biologist and futurist Elizabeth Sartoris a few, a couple months ago, and she said that even in terms of biology and evolutionary history, it’s evident that the greatest crises brought about or were concomitant with the greatest surges of evolution on the planet. And I think that works as much for spiritual evolution in our current time as it does for biological evolution throughout history. These are the best of times and the worst of times. We really could exterminate the human species in the next hundred years, and at the same time, there’s this conduciveness to spiritual awakening which I don’t think has really been so lively in other times, even the 1950s if you think of it, how many people were kind of like getting all enthused about spiritual awakening back then. But now it’s really, there’s an upsurge and you can ride that wave if you feel so, if you choose to do so. It’s like a good surfing day for enlightenment.

Adam: Well, and that’s a perfect analogy. Yeah. And the surf is up.

Rick: Yeah, the surf is way up.

Adam: Are you going to get on your board and get in the water and ride the wave, or are you going to just sit on the sand and check it all out?

Rick: Right, stick your toe in.

Adam: And so, I think that’s a great analogy and just a couple real-time observations that I’d like to share with you on some of these very salient important points that you’re making Rick, and it’s true, that old ancient proverb is one that is not necessarily about interesting times, because of course it is interesting, but that’s a little bit of a Chinese curse in its own way, they say.

Rick: They call it a curse, but I find it to have a positive connotation.

Adam: I do too, and of course it’s semantics and just wording, but I often just say, “We are living in very exciting times where we have infinite possibilities. And you beautifully referenced that because there’s obviously much talk about the point of chaos on the planet and some of the things that are happening. And interestingly, in the Wall Street Journal today, there was an interview with famed biologist E.O. Wilson, who just is publishing his latest work called A View of Eternity. And one of the things that he was quoted as saying was, “Humans do not know what they’re doing.” That we do not have real sensitivities to where we are going. And it’s whether, whatever your worldview is, I would sense that there is no denying that the capacity of the planet at seven and a half billion going to 10 billion in most of our lifetime, immediately. And the things that are happening around the biodiversity, which is well-documented, the extreme degradation of the environment, let’s not point fingers because it’s just humanity and man that is, and humankind, I should say, that is really moving in a direction that is rapidly putting humanity on the extinction list.

Rick: It really is. I just want to interject here. If people think that that’s an exaggeration, if you read the UN report on climate change that just came out and various interpretations of it, if we experience even a six-degree centigrade rise in temperatures worldwide, it’s very unlikely that humanity will be able to survive. It’ll kill all the plankton in the ocean, which will cut off a major source of oxygen for the planet. It’ll decimate most of the agriculture on the planet. And 10 billion, we won’t even be able to sustain 1 billion if that sort of thing happens. So, there’s this sort of a, the word “acceleration” comes to mind. There’s an acceleration of destruction, and yet at the same time, there’s an acceleration of technology, where all kinds of incredibly interesting and potentially life-saving technologies are coming up, alternative energy things. And there’s also this acceleration of consciousness or spirituality. And the way they sort of intertwine and interact is fascinating to me.

Adam: Very fascinating, and hence another reason to know that we do live in interesting and exciting times. And Wilson actually commented in his interview that we are rapidly moving into a world that really could be managed just by a couple high-tech tech operations that can, control climate or bubbles or spaces, mass spaces to be able to even occupy the earth. And, as a futurist, I would say, well, that may be far out and may be something that drives a lot of fear, but it really gets back to what you’re referencing about the rise in spirituality. And what I often say around a lot of things that are happening with population and environmental degradation is yes, it’s true that this planet is overpopulated. And the big issue with our overpopulation is that we have, it’s all about doing. We live in a doing world. And so, yes, there are too many people on this planet doing what the humans do. And the challenge that I see for humanity right now, very relevant to our collective awakening, is that we need more people being who we are at the core of our humanity. And this is really goes to the heart of why I even published The Earth Keeper on developing the future, because my sense is, if there’s any way to have greater connectivity of ourselves with our being place and greater connectivity with Earth, that that in its own right is going to make a massive difference in the crisis and chaos that is now unfolding on this planet. And so, that’s very much part of this conversation. And I’m grateful for you, Rick, to bring up how this rise in consciousness and in spirituality is key and it’s essential. And it probably, in my sense, is the one area that has the potential to save ourselves, not save the planet, because that…

Rick: Planet will be fine.

Adam: Planet’s fine. It’s a little bit of a human arrogance, thinking we’re going to save the planet, my gosh, we can do this. But one thing we can do is step into our own being place. You know what I’m saying?

Rick: Oh, I know what you’re saying. And it’s a great point. You were talking and yet at the same time live in infinity, live in the subtle world. And that to me is the definition of enlightenment, that we are these multi-dimensional beings and most people are locked into just the surface dimension without being aware of all the deeper dimensions. An enlightened being or a shaman in the true sense of the word has the full range open to their conscious awareness in a continuous living way. And you’re just talking about doing rather than being, or being rather than doing. We need to do actually, but the doing should be grounded in being. And there’s a verse in the Gita which is, how does it go, “yogastakur karmani,” which means established in yoga, established in being, perform action. And obviously the way to do that is to become familiar with being by taking recourse to it on a regular basis, diving into that and then engaging in action. Frank Sinatra said it best, “Do be do be do.” You want to go back and forth.

Adam: Well, it is really that dance of that yin and yang energy. And it’s what comes from deep within the unmanifest into the manifest. And it’s exactly right. It’s like, are you going to allow the tail to wag the dog? And when we’re doing and doing and doing, do be do be do, the tail is wagging the dog here. So, it’s just a matter of whatever that language may be, but it’s a very relevant and important point at this time.

Rick: Yeah, but perhaps we could talk a bit more about spiritual awakening as the ultimate fulcrum, the way a fulcrum works. If you want to move a big rock, you don’t just try to lift the rock. You have something which just with a minimum of effort actually can accomplish a great work. And we know from physics that the subtle is more powerful. And we know from spirituality that consciousness is most subtle. So, if we could sort of establish ourselves there consciously and function from there, then we could have the sort of the … it’s not only about power, because that implies controlling nature again. It’s really about operating from the level at which nature itself operates, the intelligence which governs the universe. If we can be one with that intelligence, then we will no longer be dominating nature, we’ll be cooperating with it.

Adam: Yes, and I’m with you on that. Man’s, or humankind I should say, his dominion of the earth is coming to a close.

Rick: Didn’t work out so well.

Adam: Didn’t work out so well, and I can only attest to that in my own personal life, and the journey that I walked, and ultimately now to focus on earth keeping. And I’d like to just expand for a moment, if it’s okay with you Rick, on some of the points that you were just making around consciousness.

Rick: Please, yeah.

Adam: And one of the things that I have really experienced and really sit with often in quiet contemplation, and also in practice, being that I’m in the world but I’m not from the world.

Rick: In the world but not of it.

Adam: It’s an interesting paradox of our humanity. And some may take exception to what I am about to say, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it, but the rise in consciousness, the light shining into my own awareness, the ability to move beyond five-sensory perception, the greater connectivity to the oneness of it all, this is consciousness, this is awareness, and this is really, I sense what many refer to as the witness, to really being in the, and Eckhart refers to it as presence, and very powerful. But one of the things that I’ve observed, Rick, is that consciousness has levels. Consciousness is of levels, and as my consciousness grew, then my openness in myself, I expanded into this greater awareness. And it also, the level of my intelligence expanded as well. But I would put forth for consideration that consciousness, while important and key in cultivating our greater capacity as human beings, that it’s not enlightenment. And this is a very shamanic perspective. And as I have journeyed deep within the out of the manifest world, and those journeys in shamans typically do their work with lucid dreaming, or some do medicine, like ayahuasca, to like Timothy Leary worked to experiment to open his mind, not that I advocate any of that, but ultimately in looking, in going to a space, a time, out of time space, and into infinity, that ultimately consciousness, while it cultivates so much, but it’s not the entire capacity that we have as humans. And I put it forth as an exploration, because what I’m suggesting here, is that the place of the Akashic, the place of the field beyond all things that we have known as humans, ultimately is a greater field of the universe. And in that place is a greater sense of the enlightenment, that is the purity in that place of what some refer to as the Godhead, where those two things are one, is beyond even a conscious state. And it’s hard to even put words to any of this, and I probably have already said way too much, but I figured why not?

Rick: No, that’s okay. And a couple of Vedic literature verses come to mind that relate directly to what you said. One is from the Bhagavad Gita, chapter 13, verses 1 and 2. Arjuna asked Krishna, “What is knowledge?” And then Krishna replied, “Knowledge is to know the field and the knower of the field.” And to my mind, what this means is that the field is like the field of the relative, which has vast potential for knowing all sorts of details. The knower of the field is, we could say, consciousness. And you can’t just have one without the other. Our Western society is largely knowing the field without knowing the knower, and then there are some who feel like only knowing the knower is important. But really, actually, once the knower is known, once the self is realized, there is vast range for potential exploration to know the field more deeply, to know the relative world more intricately and subtly. And there’s one more thing I’ll throw out, and then we can bounce it back to you, and that is there’s a verse in the Rig Veda which goes something like, “Richo Aksharae Parame Vyoma Nyasmin Deva Adi Vishve Nishedhu,” which means that the impulses of intelligence which govern the universe, reside in the transcendental Akasha, reside in the sort of field of pure being. And then the verse goes on to say, and I don’t know the Sanskrit, that those who know that field receive the support and cooperation of all those impulses of intelligence, and those who don’t know it, what can those impulses of intelligence do for him? So, we kind of live in a society where we don’t know that sort of transcendental field very well, and so, we rely on fragmented, limited, man-made knowledge which can accomplish things, but which always has unintended consequences. We do one thing over here and there’s all these terrible side effects, but if we could sort of act from that level from which nature governs the universe, then the impulses of our creativity, our technologies, everything else, could be much more comprehensive or harmonious. They could produce desired benefits without unintended consequences

Adam: Well, and that’s a good point, because it is about how nature governs the universe. And there’s a great new field coming forth called biomimicry. It’s been around, but its credibility is really gaining speed of how we too can create designs and use nature’s technology to put forth new ideas. And it’s happening with green building, in water systems, in other systems. And my sense is our ability to adapt to things like that nature is going to be key. And one of the things that came to me as you were sharing, Rick, was the thought that we were sharing here around consciousness, enlightenment, all the same type. What is that ultimate source of that? And one of the things that I share in the book is this theme of undevelopment. The deep scholars in this space, and a lot of the Vedic traditions do speak of this word “involution.” We are so geared towards evolution. Yes, we do evolve, and we spiral in time from birth to death, hopefully, and hopefully in a meaningful and purposeful way. But at the same process, same time, there is a process that can be cultivated and worked like a muscle that is really what I refer to as undevelopment. And that’s really a code word for involution. And that is simply the process of deconstruction, a process of taking away and releasing and doing so graciously in a way that serves and allows our soul, if you will, if that’s a big word, many, I would say yes or no, but allows, say, our spirit or whatever that is for you, or that God to flow freely through this human hardware that we have. And that process, what I found, is very potent. And it’s the alchemist of old, often speak of how we turn lead into gold, but ultimately, indigenous alchemy is really this process of where if we were a moving ourselves through a kind of a chemistry experiment, where we are in the crucible and where we are in the fire and in the vapor and in the air, and we’re ultimately crystallizing what is there when we synthesize it all, what pops out through this alchemical process is this sense of enlightenment and this nothingness. And it’s no word can put it there. And so, my conversations are often and where I’m really heading is a lot of really around this power around involution in this idea that we too can return to that point in time, where the universe or the cosmos or some would say God, we were infused with that into our cellular body and into our coding. And when we return to that place, we know that we too are the co-creators of our life. And so not to get overly abstract or esoteric here, but really to say, it’s not always about adding more and stuffing more in our head, it can really be about simply unloading the baggage that we carry within our human vehicle. And such as the ancient Chinese proverb, is the master pouring the tea to the student and the tea is just flowing over as he’s pouring it and says, please, you’re my cup is just pouring over. And exactly, we just are wanting to pour it all in. But to do that, let’s empty the old junk. It kind of goes back to what we’re I was pumping at the gas station. Am I pumping the junk into my tank and polluting it with all this stuff? Or am I putting something that fulfills my life and serves my own journey to be of greater service and a greater capacity to others?

Rick: Well, Jesus said you shouldn’t pour new wine into old wine skins, and I think what you’re saying about transmutation, and we need to become a more fit vehicle for spirit or for presence. And there are actually people who sometimes prematurely awaken Kundalini and awaken spiritual energy and end up in mental hospitals or end up severely destabilized or traumatized or something because the vehicle was not prepared, the vehicle was not fit to handle that intensity of spiritual energy. So, there’s a lot to be said for, making ourselves more fit. And this term involution, the way I understand it when you say it is that it implies kind of an inner exploration, taking the attention within and there discovering the, I think you said the origin of the universe or the origin of our connection with the universe or something. Is that what you’re saying?

Adam: Well, yes. And in addition to that, it’s really an energetic connectivity. It’s really, it is that deeper space. And there’s what I would consider one of the big conversations happening in the field of awakening or spirituality is this epigenetics. And Bruce Lipton is talking a lot about this, because it’s really about how collectively we hold our environment. And ultimately that is what informs our DNA. And I’m no scientist here and I’m thankful for that in many ways. But the scientists are doing great work around this, what I call rewriting our software. And the process of rewriting software is really involves quite a few things. And not that we need to get off on that, but the idea is very evident that we are writing software that is serving where we’re going, how we want to share, how we want to serve, what can we do in our greater capacity with the gifts that each of us have. And this idea is, okay, it’s time to rewrite software. And like any software programmer, it’s a continuing process. And you don’t want to be operating on an old system, when you can really be operating on all cylinders with a new system. Yes, we have this incredible hardware. It’s just stunning, this human capacity. And there’s a great conversation that’s happening. And I alluded to it a second ago, and it’s about this new human. And many, many folks are beginning this conversation that this new human is upon us. And it’s the dawn of this new age of humanity. And I am fully recognized that in my own human capacity, that this, the new 2.0, or whatever your version may be, is upon you. And you made a good point, Rick, because the ability to hold that capacity, necessitates that we do the work: the ability to even take it upon ourselves, so as to not have this premature, kundalini, lightning bolt of energy that shoots through the system. You don’t want to be short-circuiting that or blowing out the fuses. So, the idea, and what I think, and I’m observing both in the domain, in the world out there, the “Unconscious world,” so to speak, is that there is a great stirring. There is something that is moving, and many do not know quite what it is. I sat next to a billionaire at a luncheon not too long ago, an elderly man, and I said, “Well, how are things? The markets are incredible.” And at the time, last year, they were up 20, 30 percent. “Oh, not so good. I just, I’ve got this tremendous unease.” And I said, “Well, what’s precipitating that?” He goes, “I don’t quite know, but I’m hearing that from my peers.” And then, that’s when we become very complacent. And it’s like, so the work that you’re doing and sharing is so important, because the ability for, to have a greater capacity, to, we live in this time where there is the potentiality, and the possibilities is unlimited to leap into this new human, so to speak. And some say this is the homo sanctus luminis, the human, the sacred human of light. Some say, like my friend Barbara Marks Hubbard, this is the homo universalis, the human of the universe. And then others, like Alberto Vialdo, who wrote the foreword to my book, it’s the homo luminis. The ancient ones have been speaking and sharing this for hundreds of thousands, if not thousands of years. So, these are interesting things to explore together as we go forward.

Rick: Yeah, it’s all very interesting, actually. One particular point I want to bounce off of that you just said, when you were sitting with that billionaire, and he said he felt this sense of dis-ease. Here in my town in Iowa, there’s a corporation that is planning to build this huge grain silo on the edge of town, right next to this property of some people who’ve lived there for 40 years or something. And a lot of people are really upset about this. The farmers like it, but the people who are trying to make this a green community and a more enlightened community and so on are kind of upset about it. And when you think about what that grain silo is going to be used for, it’s going to be used to, the whole corn industry, right? And corn does what? They make a lot of high-fructose corn syrup, which contributes to obesity and diabetes. They feed pigs, which, and those pigs live horrible lives, and the people who eat the pork, they probably could be on healthier diets. They use it for ethanol, which is a really stupid way of getting alternative energy compared to other possibilities. So, the whole industry is, this thought hasn’t even entered the minds of the farmers, but the whole industry is based on stuff that really wouldn’t fit in very well in a more enlightened society that really doesn’t deserve to exist ultimately. And that’s just a case in point. There are so many examples of foundations of our economy, really big building blocks in our economy that really need to be pulled out and pulverized because they just don’t fit in to a more enlightened society. The tobacco industry, the fossil fuel industry, genetic engineering, you can go on and on down the list. And so, I think the reason this billionaire is feeling nervous is that he doesn’t know it consciously, but there’s a deep rumbling taking place in world consciousness, a deep, sort of a giant is awakening. And I think that a lot of structures to which people are deeply committed, financially, emotionally, and many other ways, are going to come tumbling down. Maybe I’m being optimistic and idealistic and naive and so on, but I’ve felt this for decades and it still hasn’t really happened too much yet. But if we’re going to shift to a more enlightened society, it’s going to have to happen.

Adam: Well, very much so. In my worldview, for whatever it’s worth, it is happening. And, it reminded me of a hike that I used to take in Malibu, that it became quite famous when Eckhart made a reference to this hike in his book, The New Earth, because he too took this hike. And when you get to the back of the canyon, there’s a sign there that said, “Beware, the structures within are dangerous.”

Rick: That’s great.

Adam: And so, what a powerful statement about these times, because ultimately the structures, the pillars that you are referencing in our collective economies and cultures, whether that is our reliance on carbon, we live in a carbon-based world, a carbon-based economy, that doesn’t work.

Rick: Nope.

Adam: We live in political systems that are being torn apart and tested. And we’re recognizing the frailties and the deep shortcomings of a democracy, although it reminds me of Winston Churchill, “It’s the best thing we got going.” And this, maybe this is the truth. But the point really is, the point really is, wherever our modern or post-modern societies are, economically, culturally, whatever it is, wherever we are in that arc of time, they truly are in a state of collapse. Now, the towers came down in ’11, I mean ’01, 9/11. So, we certainly symbolically know that we, as conscious, sentient beings in that capacity, although we are so much more, but let’s just be in that capacity because we’re in this doing world, ostensibly getting to more of a being place to do. But the idea really here is to, what I am finding, and what came to me is one of the deeper wisdom teachings of Mother Nature, is the ability of ourselves as humans to have a deep root and a deep grounding within our own lives and within our own communities. And that grounding is essential for what is now evolving around humanity. And the idea here is that the human to not be snuffed out and that the flame will burn bright. And of course, I don’t operate from a place of fear because it’s really not about that. That’s out there. It’s about what’s in here. It’s about our own internal flame and our own sensibility of this greater capacity that we’ve been talking about. And that’s what ecologists have spoken very much about. And that’s really the thrust of what I share in the book is that, and that in order to have that deep root, in order to build those pillars in our lives and those foundations in our lives and in our communities and in our families, it’s essential that they’re built to last. And what I found was in the 1.0, I wasn’t built to last. It was unsustainable. And so, the process of creating sustainability, and I often refer to this as conservation, preservation, and restoration. I refer to that in what I do with the land and real estate, but I also, it originates from conservation, preservation, and restoration of myself and what that takes to do that. And if you think about that root that each of us plants on this earth as we move across this great planet of ours, we certainly want our soil. We want it to be healthy. We want it to be vibrant, and we want it to be purposeful. And the idea here is some of the things that you just spoke around the corn industry and the genetically modified food industry. And it’s the issue there is not a right or wrong issue. The issue there is how does that affect the root of ourselves and our humanity for eternity? And when we look at that, we will quickly recognize it poisons the soil. It poisons our root. It takes us out of the place of our heart as heart-centered beings. So, it’s really an important conversation. And that’s why I often think, Rick, and let’s talk a little more about some other stuff, but I often want to say, that what is the bottom line here? What is it? And my sensibility and what came to me as I was reentering the world after my quest, which is never ending, but coming back into life to serve and to do things, but I’m just no longer a predatory capitalist. I’m still a capitalist, a conscious one, is what is the bottom line? And what is the bottom line in my life? And what is the bottom line in the life that I’m living and what I’m doing both in my inner world, in my outer world? And that bottom line is what I refer to as the quadruple bottom line. And that’s about people, planet, profits, and purpose, to be purposeful in what we do. And the idea is, if my actions are not accounting for that bottom line, then I am not building and supporting that root. And it’s okay, because some would say, well, making a dime or making a profit is not, would say, well, that’s not really a spiritual thing. And many don’t say that, because even the ones that ostensibly are, quote unquote, “most spiritual”, are very active in this arena. And so, but I sense, and I put a call out to the listeners and everybody, what is your bottom line? And if you practice this quadruple bottom line, my sense is that we will all be better off, and it begins with each of us.

Rick: Lots of good stuff in that one. One thing that came to mind as you were speaking is just that everything we see in the world is kind of a manifestation or a reflection of collective consciousness. If we see a city that’s full of pollution and ugliness and crime and, all kinds of bad air and whatnot, , who created that city? Obviously, human beings did, and they did so from a certain level of consciousness with certain motives and so on. So, I guess where I’m going with this is that, back to that idea of consciousness being the ultimate fulcrum, and that if we want the outer manifestation to be more wholesome and beautiful, then that which gives rise to it has to be more wholesome and beautiful, has to be awake, alive, enriched. I guess this pertains to your involution point, but I think that if it were possible, a society comprised largely of enlightened people would spontaneously manifest a lot of outer beauty and purity and lack of pollution and all that, just the way they would naturally conduct themselves, without a whole lot of intellectualizing about it, they would naturally evolve technologies and pursue lifestyles and so on that would make this a beautiful world, even obviously the jungle is beautiful, but even the more human-fabricated parts of it.

Adam: Well, yes, Rick, and that center point, that fulcrum, and many would argue that about this. I don’t, because I can only share what I have experienced, and that is at that fulcrum and in that center point, innate within all humans, within humanity, is that enlightened state, that place that lies at the core that we know, that the place of love and being in the place of awareness and in service to the whole of the life on Earth, that organism, and which, of course, we’re a big part of it, and to being, to serving that wholeness is essential. And these are real and important and timely conversations. And so, it’s fun to be sharing some of these things, yet at the same time, it’s often said amongst the gurus and others that are the avatars or so, “Well, it’s all perfect.” Yes, it is all perfect. However, if you look at the actions taken by those who have chosen to be in the world, you can live in the ashram or live in the mountains or live in the tipi, there’s nothing wrong with that. But if you are choosing to be a conscious, enlightened being in the world and fully integrating our greater human capacity, then we know this from watching those that have come before us, those sages and those wisdom keepers and those earth keepers, and those day keepers that have really held our humanity together magnificently to this moment that we’re talking now. If we observe that, they, in their perfection, are in doing and being, engaging in the world because they know that when children go hungry, 16.7 million in America alone, or much of the world exists in conflict, or that there’s this deep sense of social injustice, this dominion of earth and all these things that exist on earth, we know that it is our responsibility and duty to show up to attend to it for the betterment of everybody.

Rick: You were talking about levels of consciousness earlier, and you’ll have to meet my friend Timothy Conway who lives right there in Santa Barbara.

Adam: I’d love to.

Rick: Yeah, he wrote an article on his website which is enlightened-spirituality.org, I believe, in which he titled, “The Three Levels of Non-Dual Reality.” And the first level, the surface level, is a level at which it’s obviously not perfect. There’re all kinds of things that are broken and that need fixing. Then there’s a deeper level at which, fine, all is well and wisely put, everything is divinely orchestrated, it is all perfect on that level. And then there’s a deeper level at which nothing ever happened. It’s the unmanifest, the universe hasn’t arisen yet. And all these levels have their own validity on their own levels, but you can’t mix them up. It’s not right to take the reality of one level and, I would say, misapply it to another level. It ends up being uncompassionate. For instance, if you say, “It’s all perfect, the starving children in Africa,” whatever, “It’s all divinely ordained,” then you’re misapplying levels. Someone needs to go to Africa and help the children and so on, and that person, let’s say they’re an enlightened person, they’re aware of the level at which it’s all perfect, and they’re also aware of the level at which nothing is happening or ever happened, but they’re working to feed the children. So, it comes back to that theme we’ve talked about earlier about the enlightened being someone who traverses or encompasses, embodies all levels of reality simultaneously and is able to give each level its due.

Adam: Well, put into context in a good way, and I have often spent time contemplating exactly what you articulated quite well there, and it is that sense that whatever level we are operating on, or whatever level we’re not operating on, for that matter, whether it’s the non-duality or the true duality, the trap is ultimately to be existing in one of them, and to think that there’s…

Rick: To the exclusion of the others.

Adam: To the exclusion of the other. And in that case, then we see the rise of dogma and extremism. Primarily, we’ve seen it in religion over the last couple millennium. And so, we now have this capacity, always have, but the capacity that it’s the bottom box. It’s none of the above.

Rick: Or all of the above, depending on how you want to…

Adam: Exactly, exactly. So, I sometimes, I like all of the above, and then I also go to, well, when you mesh them all together, and you throw them all in the pot, you get what some would say is the magic, or the miracle, or the magnificence of grace on earth, and heaven and earth. So, it’s cool, and we’ll check it all. We’ll take all those boxes, and we could get to share with each other all of those great human experiences that we’re all sharing and having together.

Rick: Nisargadatta Maharaj, you’re probably aware of him, he wrote that, he’s that sage of, where was he, Bombay, said the measure of spiritual maturity is the extent to which one can incorporate paradox and ambiguity, to be comfortable with paradox and ambiguity. And reality itself is paradoxical, a physicist will tell you that. There’re so many levels of reality as described by physics, each of which has its own laws, but you can’t misapply them. The physicist can tell you about a level at which gravity doesn’t exist, because it hasn’t arisen yet, but his understanding and appreciation of that level doesn’t let him jump off buildings with impunity. So, you really have to give each level its due.

Adam: Well, yes, very much so. And to honor those things, for myself, I do spend time every day before I launch out and do the things that I’m doing and what I’m being out there, the best in my capacity, but ultimately to recognize that, it is being a human being, it is extraordinarily challenging, and, I’ve worked to be gentle with myself and forgiving of myself and where I feel that that’s necessary, and to recognize, yeah, well, it may be all perfect, and there may be nothing ultimately to forgive at the end of the day, but, hey, this is part of the joy of the journey, and to really recognize that. And, one of the things that always comes to mind a little bit is that, life on Earth, and I forget who said this, life on Earth is addicting, except reality, which is unbearable. It’s like, okay, there you go. It is so addicting, all of it, but yes, we also hold this greater capacity and greater truth that is oftentimes can be challenging or difficult, and that’s the kind of joy of it all, and so it’s fun to be in that evolutionary process and that involutionary process.

Rick: So, in your book, you talked about this one development that you did up in Big Sur where you bought the land along with a bunch of investors, and you preserved it, and you were planning to develop a small portion of it to sort of generate income or something, but essentially to preserve the whole thing. It’s a big world. Have you done more projects now since then, and is this kind of expanding to become a greater, an enterprise that could actually be seen from the International Space Station?

Rick: Well, I don’t know about if you can see it from the Space Station, but you can see it if you have an eagle eye, you fly like the eagle, you can zoom in on it, and yes, the answer is yes, we have been moving the paradigm, the shift that I had around real estate when I came to Big Sur, and that shift really was about, and this may provide some ideas or thoughts to those that are in a place where they’ve come to an intersection in their life where they’re not only weaving in their inner and outer lives as one, because ultimately who we are and what we do really should be one in the same thing, and if they’re not, then I would encourage everybody to focus on creating a lot of equanimity around that part of their lives, but this, when I came to that intersection many years ago, was where was I going to re-enter into the world? It really said to me, well, I’m coming back to Big Sur, and I’m in Big Sur, how can I serve the real estate industry? And the real estate industry is defined by highest and best use. What is the highest and best use for real estate? And that is, well, the maximum amount of development rights and entitlement rights you can stack on a little piece of property. Well, what we’re recognizing is that doesn’t necessarily work, and it’s not sustainable. So, I rewrote that paradigm for myself and just said, well, wait a second, we can create conservation and preservation and restoration work around the land. We can undevelop it. In other words, we can take away entitlement rights, and in doing, taking away some of those development rights, we create what we leave. We leave some development. It’s not like not in my neighborhood, nothing. It’s the quadruple bottom line, and it’s taking into account the sensitivities not only of the land, but the neighbors and the community. And when we look at land in that capacity, when we honor the rivers and the woods and the animals and all the flora and fauna, and we look at that, what we recognize, what remains is something that has far more value because it’s in living in harmony with that. And so that’s really what we’re up to. We’re working on a project in Hawaii. It’s very challenging. It’s a 16,000-acre project with four and a half miles of ocean frontage. And fortunately, through a confluence of events with both economic and also my strong relationship with the owner of the property, it’s not going to be built into a massive resort community with golf and homes and jet strips and hotels and all that. And we’re also looking at some new projects now that are all about repurposing golf courses, that are really what I refer to as dead golf, to recreate recreational space and to create garden space and to do that in association with homeowners’ groups. And instead of having something that’s blighted and is impinged upon value, it’s a creative to their value. It increases the value of owners. So, we’re doing things that are different around the land, but they’re very oriented to how communities can be in greater relationship with the earth and in the process of being in that greater relationship, create a greater to, I should say, support their root on that earth so that those pillars are unbreakable. And that’s why we’re also focused on urban gardens and getting youth into gardens. So our work around the environment and land is underway. It’s a new model. A lot of people scratch their head and say, hell no, but we’re marching forward patiently and very intentionally and really working to restore or help to restore humanity’s connection to the earth. And this big buzzword now that we face, we have this disease called nature deficit disorder, NDD, it’s real. And they did a study, Rick, in Great Britain amongst children and 70% had very little or no connectivity to the animals or the plants or the earth. I was at dinner with Lisa Anne the other night to honor a dear friend, Dr. Michael Tobias, perhaps one of the foremost prolific scholars and writers of our ecology in relationship to the environment. And he said many things that would literally make your hair curl up and go, my gosh, what’s happening on this planet. But one of the points he made was, well, they did a survey of kids in Arizona, middle school kids, high school, they know twice as many or actually more than that, brand names, Frito-Lay versus, oh, that is a woodpecker. So, we have something that needs to attend to and our conversations are about cultivating that root, that viability of our humanity and helping others to their connectivity to it in support of the wellness and the vitality of this planet.

Rick: One thing I find fascinating, and I think we’ve sort of touched on it, but it bears repeating, it came to mind as you were speaking, is that everything, again, is a manifestation of the consciousness of the people that have created it. And there’s so much of a mentality on this planet where there’s a very kind of narrow focus of what is good for me now, what is good for my company’s bottom line, for the next quarter, for the investors and all that, without any regard for the broader consequences of what’s being done. So, whether it’s the tar sands in Canada and the pipeline they want to build across the country to bring all the oil to the Gulf Coast so it can be shipped to China, or what, there’re so many examples, but it’s always this thing of, I want my profit and I want my company to have its profit and to hell with the consequences. And let’s funnel money into convincing people that there won’t be any consequences. And it’s just so fascinating that you, having undergone this transformation, metaniasis I think was the word you used, something like that?

Adam: Metanoia.

Rick: Metanoia. It’s so fascinating to see how your outer activity has changed as a result of an inner transformation. I think that’s the gist of this whole interview and the gist of your story, is that everything you put your energy into now is done so differently than you did when you were in a sort of egoic consciousness. Now you have a broader consciousness, a deeper consciousness, something which kind of literally embraces the whole planet. It does on a deep level. Consciousness is unbounded. If you establish yourself in that unboundedness, then the world is your family. And it’s so fascinating to see how that has manifested in your life and what you’re doing with it. It’s really commendable and an inspiration hopefully for many, many others.

Adam: Well, thank you. Thank you, Rick. And you as well for the work that you’re doing. And one of the things that warms my heart to no end is all the incredible, what I refer to as earth keepers, because I believe we are all earth keepers, that have come into my life and that are coming into my life, is makes me know for certain that not only is there hope for this planet and our humanity, but our best of times and our greater unfoldment is now dawning upon us. And I see that, I feel that; I’m experiencing that. I went to the Amazon jungle two years ago for the fifth time in the deep jungles of Peru down near the Bolivian border. And I tell some of these stories in my book, The Earth Keeper, as you know. And I checked in because the jungle is the womb of the mother earth. This is the place that biologists refer to as the hot spots, where there is the most biodiversity, where there’s the most proliferation of life in all its forms, from vertebrates to just pure organisms. And when I went to check in there, and just did a check in not in Peru, but just recently as well on another Vision Quest, when I checked in there, everything is operating. It’s challenged and it’s troubled, but it’s all operating. The system is working its way into greater balance. And the key here is, like Dr. Wilson said, as I referenced earlier, is, humans have to become more conscious, so we know what we’re doing and where we’re going. And the ship can be pointed in new directions. And that’s happening. And it’s happening in a big way. And it’s great to be connecting with others that are making it happen. And all of you who are listening in your own little way, are the ones that will make it happen in a bigger way, in a more purposeful way. And every single one of us is essential in this process. As you referenced earlier, Rick, the collective is shifting, the collective needs to shift. But for that to shift, each of us too must shift.

Rick: Yeah. And as we shift, we all have our dharmas. I would totally suck as a real estate developer, but I have my dharma, you have yours. And so, however one can manifest this, as we were talking earlier, you take a step, and the next obvious thing presents itself. So, it’ll become more and more apparent to each of us, I think, as we go along.

Adam: Indeed. And that’s the beauty of it. Can you imagine if you shed your old story, you undevelop that old story, and you already knew the new story?

Rick: Wouldn’t be a very interesting book.

Adam: Wouldn’t be very interesting and it wouldn’t be very fun. And in the process, my gosh, we would miss out on the greatest gift that has been given to us. And that is the ability and the capacity to be co-creators.

Rick: Yeah.

Adam: And to be collaborators with others. And so, the time really has come on this planet to shed the old stories and to write the new story. The story that each of us is dreaming into being from a place of our heart’s truest desire and from a place that our soul is calling us to come home to.

Rick: Beautiful. Well, we should probably move toward concluding this interview, but I just want to say, first of all, that if anybody listening to this wonders, has not really gotten the point about why a whole discussion about saving the earth and ecology and stuff like that is relevant to someone who is primarily interested in spiritual development or spiritual awakening, think again. Because first of all, if we don’t save the environment, there isn’t going to be a place for any of us to get spiritually awakened unless we reincarnate on other planets or something. And secondly, as Adam and I have been discussing, this whole spiritual awakening thing is very much tied in with what’s happening on the planet and the things that you see in the news every day about global warming and Greenland melting and all sorts of things that are going on. So, point made on that. Second, this book, we didn’t talk too much about it during the interview, but it’s a lot of fun and there are all kinds of interesting stories in here of things that Adam did as he was following his quest, like for instance, getting on a horse in Canyon de Chelly in New Mexico, having not ridden a horse since he was four years old, and that was just a Shetland pony at a fair or something, and galloping at breakneck speed through a thunderstorm. So, that was interesting. And sweat lodges and snowstorms and climbing. How did you get off that rock in Sedona, Bell Rock? It’s harder to climb down from something than it is to climb up, and you never told us how you got off the rock.

Adam: Well, exactly. It’s easy to get up there, but how the heck do you get down? And I got down like, I think I would say is probably something that took me a while to learn over my 53 years, and that was to go slow, methodically, and to really be present with the rock that I was standing on in each step that I took. So, when I got into that grounding and that centering, it really wasn’t so difficult.

Rick: Oh, good. Well, I was thinking you maybe called a helicopter or something. And then there are other stories: falling off a four-wheel drive vehicle and breaking your collarbone and your leg and crawling to safety and confronting a mountain lion. And oh, God, there’s so many interesting things. So, it’s an entertaining book with a very profound spiritual current running throughout. And one other thing I’m curious about, which readers of this book won’t know unless you tell us now, has Gigi mellowed out at all, your ex-wife? Is she kind of realizing that you’re onto something after all, or no progress on that front?

Adam: No.

Rick: All right.

Adam: Still very excitable.

Rick: Tough nut to crack.

Adam: It’s a tough nut to crack. And it’s interesting when we have great characters like this in our life, because our lives are like theater. And the question is, do you want to have theater of drama? My particular case, as it’s shared in the book, is really kind of a tragic comedy with an adventurous twist, like an Indiana Jones style, as you referenced. Yet, you can live in a place that really is one that decides that, well, my play needs to be whatever I’m being called to. And for her, those are the choices that she has made. I’m very grateful because her character and her, she as a person, is giving me the greatest gifts in my life. First and foremost, my three amazing daughters, who I love deeply, and I have a powerful, deep relationship with them that we’re cultivating all the time. And then secondarily, without Gigi’s push, without her absolutely pounding away, then perhaps, and I’ll never know, I wouldn’t have really took that deeper look into myself and looked more concretely at who I was and where I was going. So, it’s all good.

Rick: You ever read Carlos Castaneda’s books?

Adam: Yes.

Rick: She was your petty tyrant.

Adam: Yes. And yes. And it’s the villain, the petty tyrant. It’s the things that Castaneda referred to, Don Juan referred to as the things that are the pest, the energy that tries to eat upon you. And this is a very important thing to work with that, not to battle it and to create conflict and war, but to come from a place of the heart and peace and to move beyond the old story to write the new story.

Rick: And just to get a little esoteric here, she may very well be a very highly evolved spiritual being who took on this role to play that part in the play of your lives, who had some karma to work out with you, whatever. We can’t be judgmental and say, “Oh, Adam is the big spiritual guy and his wife was too unspiritual to come along with him.” In the big picture, things we just never know who’s what, and who we’re talking about. Very much so. Exactly. And that’s why everything is a gift in its own way and not to overly generalize it, but she gets the Academy Award. There’s no doubt about it. She gets the award for doing that and showing up. And I’m grateful for her in more ways than I could share right now.

Rick: Great. Well, that’s a nice note to end on. All praise to Gigi.

Adam: I agree.

Rick: Yeah. So, let me make some concluding remarks in general. I’ve been speaking with Adam C. Hall, who is author of The Earth Keeper. I’ll have a link to his website and his book on his page on batgap.com. This interview has been part of an ongoing series. There are about 225 of them in the can now, and you can find them all on batgap.com, B-A-T-G-A-P, which is an acronym for Buddha at the Gas Pump. There you will also find a number of things. You’ll find a discussion group, one that is sort of dedicated to each particular interview. You’ll find a donate button, which I appreciate you clicking if you have the inclination. There’s a place to subscribe to be notified by email each time a new interview is posted. There are several different indices of the interviews. There’s an alphabetical one, there’s a chronological one, there’s a categorical one. So, poke around in there. You’ll find all sorts of stuff. And there’s even a page where you can vote for your favorite interviews, because sometimes people ask me what my favorite ones are, and I don’t like to say it. I don’t feel like I should say it. I have my favorites, but those are just my preferences. So, there’s a place where you can do that. So, I think that wraps it up. So, thanks for listening or watching. Thank you again, Adam. It was great fun.

Adam: Great fun to be here with you, Rick. Look forward to carrying this important conversation further and connecting with you and all of your listeners as we head down the path together.

Rick: Yep, towards that light at the end of the tunnel, which is not an oncoming train. It’s actually something nice.

Adam: Hey, by the way, on that note, I’ll never forget. I left a business meeting and I walked, it was in the book, and I walked the gentleman to the elevator and I said, “I see light at the end of the tunnel for this problem we’re having.” And the guy, deadpan, he looks at me, “That light could be a gorilla holding a flashlight.” Down the elevator he went.

Rick: I had a friend who stepped into an elevator one time not realizing that there was no elevator there. At the very last moment he had the wits to jump across and hang on to the cables or something and save his life. Anyway, on that note, thanks for listening or watching, everyone. Oh, listening, I mentioned listening. There’s also a link to an audio podcast that you’ll find on batgap.com. Many people like to do it that way. And we’ll see you next week. Thanks.