The Spiritual Message of Advanced Extraterrestrials –
Richard Lawrence – Transcript

Richard Lawrence Interview

Summary: 

• Richard Lawrence, a spiritual teacher and leader within the Aetherius Society, discusses his path from early spiritual questioning to working alongside Dr. George King, a yoga master and channel for higher cosmic intelligences.

• Central to their teachings is service as the highest form of spiritual practice—“service, service, service”—which transcends meditation and self-focus.

• Lawrence emphasizes that karma and consciousness are evolutionary forces designed to lift humanity from the lower to the higher self, not to punish or reward.

• He highlights the power of collective consciousness, sharing examples of group prayer influencing world events and underlining that global peace requires inner transformation.

• The conversation explores extraterrestrial spirituality, the role of Ascended Masters, and how humanity can cooperate with benevolent cosmic beings through spiritual energy.

• Ultimately, Lawrence advocates that personal awakening and world healing are intertwined, with each individual capable of profound impact through love, prayer, and selfless service.

Key Takeaways

• Service Over Self-Development: Richard emphasizes that spiritual service to others should be the primary focus, not personal enlightenment. However, you must also maintain your inner practice—like fueling a flame—or you’ll burn out and lose your motivation to serve.
• Dynamic Prayer as Energy Work: Richard’s first experience with “yogic prayer” involved sending spiritual energy (prana) to a homeless person, which triggered an all-night tingling sensation throughout his body. This wasn’t prayer for personal benefit, but actively channeling energy to help others.
• Life Throughout the Solar System: According to Dr. George King’s teachings, all planets in our solar system are inhabited by advanced beings existing in subtle dimensions. These civilizations are spiritually evolved, don’t have wars, and actively send healing energy to those in need.
• Reincarnation Eventually Becomes Unnecessary: As beings evolve, they eventually escape the cycle of physical rebirth and can inhabit bodies for hundreds or thousands of years. Ascended masters no longer need the “recalibration” that death and rebirth provide because they’re already aligned with their higher self.
• Studying Spiritual Teachings Benefits Everyone: When you study or contemplate spiritual concepts, you’re not just learning for yourself—you’re adding those thoughts to the “mind belt” of the world. This makes higher consciousness more accessible to humanity as a whole, helping shift global awareness.

Full transcript, edited for readability: 

Richard: You can start to feel it in yourself. So, these are all different ways that it starts. The only value of psychic abilities is using them in service, and as part of your own unfolding development. And other than that, there’s no point in them at all.

Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually awakening people. We’ve done 740 of them almost now. And if this is new to you and you’d like to check out previous ones, go to batgap.com and look under the past, look under the interview’s menu, and you’ll see several pages, where the interviews are organized in various ways. You can search within their contents. This program is made possible by the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on every page of the website, and there’s also a page about alternatives to PayPal, such as sending in a good old-fashioned check. My name is Rick Archer, and my guest today, is also a Richard, Richard Lawrence. And he is an internationally respected spiritual teacher, psychic medium, award-winning international best-selling author, and one of the world’s leading authorities on UFOs and their spiritual message. He is also the host of the Spiritual Freedom Show with Richard Lawrence podcast, and he has appeared on major media including Coast to Coast AM and various other acronyms, and has spoken in over a dozen countries, including as a keynote speaker at London’s prestigious Mindbody Spirit Festival for more than 30 years. He has a deep insight into Eastern and Western mysticism, consciousness, and cosmic spirituality, and he brings both credibility and charisma to every conversation. He brought a fair amount of charisma to our little pre-interview conversation just now.

Richard: I don’t know who wrote that. Thank you for that, Rick.

Rick: Yeah. So, good. So, good. Alrighty, so let’s, for starters, I’m going to let you talk for quite a bit, if you like, telling us more about yourself, about who George King is, about what the Aetherius Society is, and then I’ll surely have lots of questions.

Richard: Thank you. So, I’m one of those people, and I’m sure a lot of your viewers will be the same, who, and listeners, who was always searching. Well, I won’t say always because I remember the day I was age 14, actually when I got up one day -I had a great childhood, not one of these people who had troubles and difficulties and strife in my childhood at all I had fabulous parents, family, opportunities, schooling etc. But one day I woke up age of 14 and I just suddenly questioned why are we here? Where are we going? What’s the purpose of all this? There was something in me that wasn’t satisfied, even by, as I say, great life opportunities that were laid before me. And I presumed at the age of 14 that other people would know about that, would have the answer, that it would be pretty straightforward, and it wasn’t.

There was something in me that wasn’t satisfied, even by, as I say, great life opportunities that were laid before me.

Rick: Good childhood, good education.

Questions the Church Couldn’t Answer

Richard: All of that, but it didn’t hit the spot. I’ve come across this so often since then from people, some of them have had all kinds of traumas. Some people can find spirituality through traumas, through tests, through health problems, through crises of one kind or another. But some people have everything going for them in life, they might be much older than that, might be in their 40s, 50s, and then suddenly, it’s just not hitting the spot. So, this happened to me when I was about 14. Well, not about, I was 14 and so as I say, I thought that adults around me would know the answers to this thing. I was at a school in England called King’s School Canterbury, which is tied to the Church of England. The Archbishop of Canterbury is the most senior person in the Christian Anglican faith, and he actually confirmed me as a Christian, and so I had access to some of the most senior people in the church, including the dean of the cathedral and so on. My parents were very good people. I thought they would know. So long story short, what was very disappointing to me is that none of these people did know the answers to quite simple questions, as far as I was concerned, that I was looking for. And the dean, who actually at that point was hoping I might in the future become a priest, said to me, “Well look, don’t worry, you’ll have these questions, they’ll come along, but if you don’t think about them, they’ll go away.” Literally, and you’ll find it okay. They’re troubling things, but when you’re 14, you know when you’re being, if I could say this, BS’d, when someone is not being real with you. And I could see it.

Rick: Like dental care, people say if you ignore your teeth, they’ll go away.

Richard: Yeah, that doesn’t work either. So, this was particularly disappointing. I actually wept. I was at a boarding, school. And I remember walking around the cathedral in tears because I had half a mind to be a priest at that time. And I knew I couldn’t be, because he couldn’t answer some of very basic… I’ll give an example of the kind of questions I was asking. If God is love and God is the one and only way and the way to truth and so on. But I want to stretch, I’m not picking on any one religion here. It just was the religion I was raised in, and I respect different religions, but for me, it wasn’t satisfactory. If this is true, why were people born before Jesus?

Rick: Oh yeah, that’s a good one.

Richard: Just that, these are simple, and there’s a few others. Why are people born in countries where they never hear about God, the Christian faith? What would be the point of them even being born?

Rick: And then if we want to get into the size of the universe and the number of inhabited planets, is Jesus on tour or what?

The Power of Dynamic Prayer

Richard: Yeah, well that’s an interesting question. I didn’t get there at 14. And the other thing I was very interested in was life after death. Not in any morbid way, but I was being told about heaven, I was being told about hell, and to me, I simply said to the dean, who was running my confirmation classes, I said, “Look, I haven’t actually met anyone who belongs in heaven or hell. I haven’t met anyone who’d be at all content, as it was portrayed then with grapes, harps, lying on some coat couch, and just sort of in heaven somewhere, and they couldn’t watch football and they couldn’t, see their soap opera and they couldn’t etc. On the other hand, I haven’t met anyone at all who deserves to be stoked in a fiery furnace for eternity either. So, what about everybody, most people, all the people I know, where do they go?” And he was flummoxed, and he started to waffle a bit about, other things that can happen when you… He didn’t know. That’s the bottom line and I knew he didn’t know, and he knew I knew he didn’t know. Hence, he told me not to think about it too much.

And so, and other people- but what concerned me most wasn’t the fact that people didn’t know actually, Rick. It wasn’t that. What concerned me was that they didn’t really care too much. Not like I did. The general attitude was “look, don’t worry about all this too much.” And so, I then started on my quest, which took me -as I think it did with you, from what you were telling me, to Eastern religion and eventually cutting a long story short, I went to university. I was 18 then, and I came across the book by Swami Vivekananda actually Raja yoga, which I still love. I think is absolutely fantastic and I could tell this is written by a highly intelligent analytical mind in in Swami Vivekananda if people know him at all. But contained in there is a translation by him. I believe of the aphorisms of Patanjali or Patanjali, I think some people say. Which are just outstanding, so I knew then I actually had an immediate reaction. I don’t mean just mental reaction. I had a physical reaction to these aphorisms and looking at them. And I knew that this was a way to Samadhi the highest deepest state of meditation, And I thought “that’s what I’m going to do. That’s it. Okay, and I’m going to go there. I’m going to enter and gain Samadhi, and I’m going to follow all these strictures and all these rules. That’s what I shall do” and the next day I went to a lecture in the Buddhist and Vedanta Society at the University in Holland in the north of England, and the speaker, who’s a great friend of mine now, had lunch with him today, I mean he’s a great friend of mine still, gave a lecture in which he introduced the Aetherius Society, of which I’ve been now secretary for decades, and also, gave a technique of prayer.

Even if you reach Nirvana or even when you reach Nirvana, you go beyond that and eventually you’ll ascend and then reincarnation will become unnecessary.

Now prayer in this case, not being prayer for one’s own benefit, not being a prayer Oh God, may I please have- I’m not saying this is wrong to do this actually good health or even Going further, may I have this that and the other- here’s my shopping list God, and I’m praying for it. It wasn’t that at all. It was sending energy, Prana if you like chi if you like, natural spiritual energy to others and he showed us how to do it. He called it yogic prayer at the time. I see it now more as dynamic prayer. Now. Dr. George King introduced this, but I hadn’t yet come across that name. Dr. George King. So anyway, I tried this that night and I thought, well I had seen a tramp. I mean you I think you might call him a hobo, – homeless person that day, and I thought I’ll send him some energy. And I went to my room at the University, and I raised the hands as we were told to do visualized white light, felt love for this person and sent the energy. And I thought, “Let’s see what happens there.” I tried it. And I stopped, and when I stopped, I did this mudra that he taught us, which is passing one hand across another to stop the flow. And then I sort of thought, “That’s it. I’ll re-examine this tomorrow.” And anyway, what started to happen, was something I didn’t understand at all at the time. I understand it now very well, but I didn’t then. I started to feel sensations from this energy. It was like a tingling sensation. It was all over me. I went to bed, And it didn’t stop. And this was what actually disturbing. I got beyond “wow, this is interesting” to being “well, t is this ever going to stop now?” I’m tingling. I’m itching on the head. I’m a bit of heat down the in the palms. What is this? After a few hours of this I got up and it was like the middle of the night, and I knew where the man who was the student who’d organized this lecture lived, The Buddhist and Vedanta lecture. I didn’t know the person who taught it then, given the lecture, but I knew the man who’d organized, the student who’d organized it.

I tried this that night and I thought, well I had seen a tramp. I mean you I think you might call him a hobo, – homeless person that day, and I thought I’ll send him some energy.

So, I walked there, which I think was miles, I was living miles away from this person. I actually walked to him in the night, knocked on his door and he answered the door and he said, This is a bit early in the morning, Richard, what are you doing at four in the morning knocking on my door? Which is fair comment. So, I said, “well, I went to a lecture that you organized, and I tried a technique that was taught in your organization by this speaker, and I’ve been tingling ever since. I’ve got this sensation, that sensation is all going on. What is it? I need to know what’s happening here.” So, he said, “Well, just have a rest, lie down, have a rest, and then we’ll talk about it in the morning,” sort of thing. So, I stayed there. Next morning, I met John Holder, who’d given the talk, and I found out then what it was. It did stop. It did subside. It was just a natural reaction of my aura. Now I know these things. I didn’t then. And by the way, I don’t think this will happen, certainly doesn’t happen to most people that dramatically. It wasn’t unpleasant, it’s just that I wanted to know what was…in fact, it was rather nice, but I wanted to know what was going on. So, I then started to talk to John about the Aetherius Society, Dr. George King. Little did I realize that, later I would not only meet Dr. George King, I would work for him, I’d become, as it were, a disciple because he was a great Master of Yoga, really the real thing. I mean it was a fantastic person and also in the end we became great friends. I mean to the point where we would speak to each other, Dr. King and I every day, probably for the last 20 years of his life either on the phone or in person if I was with him or however it was done. We were that close and some of it was about the work, because I was running lot the society for him by then not all of it by any means But also, we had a great personal rapport, which is amazing to me because he’s much more spiritually advanced than I am by country mile as we say in England, by a long chalk. But however, that was a wonderful thing. And then I co-authored the last two books that he wrote actually, the last one being called Realize Your Inner Potential, which contains a summary of a lot of the spiritual practices he taught. And it’s all put together in that one book.

But in terms of the decision, I knew this was real and I then decided, well, much as I’d like to dedicate my life to the Patanjali aphorisms, if you remember where this story started, I can’t do that, because what was also made crystal clear to me as soon as I came across the Aetherius Society and John and then Dr. King, is that the number one priority isn’t your own development. The number one priority is service to others. And I realized, or I believed, and I still do, I could perform much more valuable service through the Aetherius Society in a whole multitude of ways, healing, world prayer, and other things. And so that’s what I dedicated my life to. What is very nice, is that within the last three years, really, just over two years actually, I have finally experienced Samadhi, or I say I’ve dipped my toe in the ocean of Samadhi. But it’s taken me decades to get there. But I do believe this. I do believe that if you spiritually develop through service, that you experience the enlightened states in a different way, because you experience them with all the benefit of the of the of this service you’ve given. If you like the karma of Karma yoga as if you like, and so what I particularly in my most recent experience and I’ve had three now it was infused completely with love and I do think that’s what service- a life of service -for anyone – It doesn’t have to be the way I’ve done it. But in whatever way it is that really brings that to the table, rather than focus purely on self and your own development and your own evolution.

I haven’t actually met anyone who belongs in heaven or hell. I haven’t met anyone who’d be at all content, as it was portrayed then with grapes, harps, lying on some coat couch.

Rick: Good. Well, that segues into a question. If you are going to serve as a lifeguard, you have to know how to swim. So there has to be some kind of development in order for you to be an effective lifeguard.

Richard: Yes.

Rick: And people I’m sure, understand the metaphor, but on the other hand they may also have experienced that spiritual people can be very self-absorbed, very fussy about their own particular situation and kind of oblivious. I mean, this is a generalization, and there are so many exceptions to it, but, on the other hand, there are spiritual organizations and teachers who advocate both self-development and service, and in fact, emphasize that service or seva as it’s sometimes called is conducive to self-development. Now the phrase karma yoga is often just defined as performing some kind of action for the betterment of others often. But if you think about it, it contains two words, yoga and karma. Yoga is union and karma is action. There’s a couple of verses in the Gita that pertain to this, but one is, I think it’s chapter 2, verse 48, “Yogasthah Kuru Karmani,” which is “Established in yoga, perform action.”

Richard: Right, yeah.

Rick: And that advice was given by Krishna to Arjuna, because Arjuna was about to embark on action without having been established in yoga, and he was all conflicted about things. And Krishna advocated resolving those conflicts, by first establishing your awareness in a state of unification and then on that foundation performing action. So that’s kind of more of a statement than a question, but I’m sure you can springboard that into…

Richard: Yeah, no, I think that’s an absolutely vital point, by the way. In fact, the master Aetherius who spoke through Dr. King, he’s not the only intelligence who did, but he did over the years because as you mentioned, Dr. King was a great medium. He said, put it really simply, he said “go onwards, go upwards, but never forget to go inwards.” And so, it won’t work. I’ve come across a number of people actually, who live a life of service as speakers, and I remember one of them, and they’ve lost their way, I’ve come across a few who’ve done that. One of them was very honest with me, asking me for advice. They are a mind-body-spirit speaker in England, this person, and they said, ” I’m doing all this. I’ve been running these workshops for years and years and I suddenly don’t see the point. I’m not motivated.” And I asked them that very question that you’ve highlighted. “Do you do these practices? Are you only teaching others? Are you working on yourself as well?” And they said, “Well, I haven’t had time to work on myself.” Roughly, it was a longer conversation than that. And that’s what can happen. I’ve seen it happen. So, you’ve got to fuel the flame.

You’ve got to fuel the flame. And you need love. And love is cultivated from within. So obviously, if you just serve and you lose that flame and you lose that love, you’ll run dry.

Rick: I think Gandhi once said, “I have a very busy day ahead of me, so I meditated two hours instead of one,” or something like that.

Richard: Yeah, brilliant.

Rick: And a simple analogy is, “if you want to shoot an arrow, you can’t just put it on the bow and let go. It’ll fall to the ground. You have to pull it back first and then let go.”

Richard: And you need love.

Rick: Yeah.

Richard: And love is cultivated from within. So obviously, if you just serve and you lose that flame and you lose that love, you’ll run dry, you’ll run out, and the wick will go low and suddenly you won’t know why you’re serving or your service will start to deteriorate. And so, I absolutely, and so I have been doing as well. Karma yoga is like an umbrella. But it works in tandem with the other yoga’s, and it needs to. It absolutely does need to. We have actually sort of the path that we follow in the Aetherius society. We sometimes call it King yoga because it’s a composite of a number of yoga’s, but the point I was making earlier is that

Rick: Sir Roger remains Roger is King

Richard: Roger is yes. That’s interesting. Service is the most important. It’s like the first among equals. Let’s put it that way. It’s a strange paradox, because you can’t serve unless you’re developing yourself as well. It won’t work in the long run.

Rick: Yep, and here in the States. I’m sure this is true over there, too, a lot of the service professions are notorious for burnout. You have teacher burnout, police burnout. Doctor burnout, nurse burnout all those things, they give, and they give and they give and the battery runs dry.

Richard: Yeah, or even worse They think, “Well, you know, why am I doing this? and, “I no longer want to… Hopefully, this is rare, but I no longer want to be a police person serving the community. I’m not getting as much as these crooks.” And then they turn themselves to corruption, sometimes. So, they’ve lost their way. Yeah. So, the moral, in their case, it would be keeping that moral character. So, I’m completely with you on that, Rick.

Rick: Yeah. Okay, so I realized I thought I had never heard of George King, and I don’t think I had ever heard of the Aetherius Society until I started preparing for this interview, but as I was listening to his story I remembered -I think -that a friend of mine wrote a book about levitation and he mentioned this guy from England who- a contemporary modern person, who had levitated.

Richard: Yeah.

Rick: And I think that and then when I was reading, The King who Came to Earth, that it was mentioned that he had levitated.

Richard: Yeah, he levitated a couple of times at least.

Rick: Yeah. As witnessed by whom?

Richard: One was witnessed, one was not witnessed by anybody other than he left Brill cream if we used to call it, hair cream on the ceiling of his…

Rick: you’re right.

Everyone Can Heal

Richard: Okay, so when he levitated, he had this on his head and so, he was in a bed sit as we call them here, and he levitated, and his hair hit the ceiling or touched the ceiling and left brill cream on the top. So, when he left, his landlady was sitting on the stairs asking him how this brill cream got on the ceiling. It’s a very high roof if you call that witnessing, it was an unusual thing. But earlier than that, he was witnessed by his niece, whom I met-she’s passed on now, and when she was in her childhood anyway, she did see him in Padma on the sofa at his mother’s house, her grandmother’s house, actually lift off the sofa. But Dr. King was not a person who wanted to talk much at all about those sorts of things, his attainments, unless they illustrated what we can all do, because this was his big message, particularly with healing actually. He wrote a book called You Too Can Heal in the 1970s, and I remember it because I’d only just started really work. I wasn’t professionally working for him, I was a school teacher, but I was starting to help with the promotion in England of his beliefs and teachings, and that book came out and I remember going to a lot of the healing groups in England, spiritualist and other groups, the National Federation and they didn’t believe it, they did not then believe that everyone can heal, they thought it was a gift, that you either had it or given to you by spirit or you didn’t have it, but you couldn’t go out and develop it. But he always said you could, and now that’s generally accepted, luckily, by most people, especially with Reiki and so on, that’s better known now. But he always drew on yoga. So, his whole approach to everything actually, but certainly healing, was drawn on yogas, the chakras, prana, the energy that flows through us.

Rick: Yeah. Well, didn’t Jesus say something like, “All these great things that I do, you’ll do even greater things”?

Richard: Yeah, he did. “These things that I’ve done will you do,” yeah absolutely

Rick: yeah and of course you would probably agree that different people have different aptitudes like everybody can play a little basketball, but we’re not all going to be LeBron James, if you know who he is.

A Quest for Answers Beyond Religion

Richard: well that’s interesting I’ve heard the name. I’m not knowing basketball, I have to confess, but I found that in psychic work, because I’ve done a lot of psychic- the first thing that started to happen to me was to develop psychic abilities and I was really, really interested in it and I’m not saying you need to be really, really interested in it. What I will say is in one way or another as you develop, you will have psychic experiences. You may not call them that by the way. They can happen in multiple ways. But taking to your point, we’re all different. So, if you take psychic abilities, some people will have more say vision, psychic vision. Some might have more psychic hearing, psychic sense or just psychic feeling, what they used to call Claire sentience, where you literally pick up other people’s feelings and thoughts even their health. You can start to feel it in yourself. So these are all different ways that it starts, and the only value of psychic abilities is using them in service and as part of your own unfolding development, and other than that there’s no point in them at all.

Rick: Yeah, there’s controversy about Patanjali because the third chapter of four in his Yoga Sutras is all about Siddhis. And some people interpret him and many subsequent teachers have said that it’s a distraction. But if it’s totally just a distraction, why would he devote a whole chapter of four chapters to that?

Richard: I don’t believe he would and you do get this in yoga a lot actually, and I think you’ve probably got more experience of being in a yoga group than me- although Dr. King was a great yogi, so I was in a yoga group actually and so I correct myself. But I have come across more traditional yoga people who, for example, have told me that they’ve been discouraged from even transmitting any energy through the palms of their hands. They’ve been taught to detach from psychic things completely and reject them virtually. But as Dr. King used to say, you can’t reject something you haven’t got. And it will come. The point there, I mean in my own case, I did a lot. I do mediumship, I’ve channeled a lot, I have I think got good evidence for my mediumship, but I don’t mind whether people leave it or not at all. and it’s very clear, it’s very definite, and I’ve done many other… I used to give psychic readings in using various methodologies, but I don’t do it now so much, but it was part of my development. Where he goes wrong is if you think you’ve arrived. It always goes wrong doesn’t it, if you think you’ve arrived. You’ve got to know you’re still on the journey and although I mentioned to you, I’ve dipped my toe in the ocean of Samadhi I am more aware than ever of how far I have to go still.

Rick: Yeah. One of my main themes of the show, which sometimes I review transcripts of very early episodes 16 years ago, is that nobody ever arrives. There is always a next horizon. Yeah, I really believe that.

Richard: That’s something actually that Dr. King took further than I believe it’s been taken before, because he took that even to the cosmos. So, he would say even if you reach Nirvana, even if you reach cosmic consciousness, there’s further to go, which ultimately would be ascension. What I love about Dr. King’s teachings and the teachings delivered through him, is they tell you why. A lot of mystics and metaphysicians tell you how, and that’s interesting. If you take, for example, karma, you can hear something like, “As you sow, so shall you reap,” which is great. What goes around comes around. To every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. I actually think that was Newton actually but to every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. Whatever it is which is seen as a Buddhist idea. But that’s all good. It’s telling you what happens and it’s telling you how it works and to be prepared for it is very valuable. But Dr. King, if I can just share this with you Rick, this is something Dr. King said about karma. He said “Karma is pressure toward conformity. It is pressure directing you the mind, and you the soul, towards you the spirit” r;; So It’s an evolutionary force. Is that what you’re saying?

Richard: Exactly that so it’s telling you why it’s all designed and directed. Not to punish you not even per se to reward you although it might appear to do that. But what it’s really doing is taking you from your what you might call your lower self, towards your higher self and all these experiences and you do need to have these experiences. That’s where a lot of the old yogis went wrong. They divorced themselves or tried to, from experience sometimes, you do need to have them. But as he also said once there’s too many people having too much experience, to experience experience, the way experience should be experienced. I’m sorry about that, but I love that quote. But it’s basically saying people having needless experiences, but if you have like a bucket list, is it what you need or not, but If you’re having experience in the right way, it’s absolutely completely essential. It’s God-given

Rick: Yeah. Well as I would as I understand that, we’re like fish in an ocean of divine intelligence, swimming around and it permeates us as well as surrounds us, and nothing is accidental or arbitrary. Every little bird that flies across or worm that crawls along or raindrop that falls on our head, everything is this part of this perfect divine Orchestration, and in the big picture everything is conducive to our evolution. And that might seem harsh if you consider some of the horrible things that happen to people. But if you consider the horrible things that happen to people to just be accidental capricious things, then it’s really hard to understand how there could be God or our kind of a universal intelligence.

Richard: Quite, and I think it’s also, making people feel that they’re unlucky- is terrible luck and so on, isn’t necessarily that helpful or encouraging to them. I’ll never forget I did lots of radio interviews and that’s where I discovered by the way, lots of people who would say they’re just ordinary people. They’d say they’re not psychic. They’re not special. They’re just ordinary people, and were having psychic experiences of all kinds according to their anecdotal reports. That’s all I can go by. But on one occasion, I was talking about karma on this show up in a place called Manchester in the north of England, and I was saying that if we can find something in an experience, no matter how tough, as you just said there, it can be really tough, if you can see something in it that is helpful to you, even if it’s strengthening your resolve or it’s making you more compassionate or whatever it might be doing, if you can find something in it, it helps you to get through it, much more than just somebody expressing sympathy and “Oh, I’m so sorry,” which can actually make you feel worse. Kind of nice in a way, but it’s not necessarily very encouraging. While we were on the air, a woman was listening. I’ve never met her, I don’t know anything about her, but she was apparently listening to this, and she had decided to take her life, she said. And she had the pills there. And she said that as I was talking about karma and seeing it in this way, as a helpful force, because there’s so many people who say “ oh, I’m getting karma. Oh no. Oh I don’t want to get karma, instant karma is going to get you” and all that stuff. She said as she was listening, a light, she said physically came on in the room she was in. It wasn’t a physical light, but it was a physical radiation, and she threw away the pills and decided to live and she phoned the station. They got her some care. Every time I went up there, she’d call in- like the next year or the year after- and as far as I know, she recovered, and this was a conversation about karma. So, I’m echoing your sentiment there.

Rick: Yeah, it’s just one thing to throw in. Sometimes people can be cruel in their application of this understanding- like somebody gets cancer and then you say “oh, it’s your karma.”

Richard: I quite agree.

Rick: There should be a huge dose of compassion and love and care and all that other stuff and but that doesn’t contradict or conflict with the notion that everything- there is a sort of a karmic mechanism that involved in every little thing that happens.

Richard: Indeed, and I think that’s where some of them went wrong in the in the East. Where, well, that’s your karma. So, I’m not helping you

Rick: And you just dig ditches and that’s your karma. But yeah

Richard: Well, that’s where the caste system, where it would probably be originally meant to be about fulfilling a Dharma, ended up. Well, you can’t break free of that. Although it seems to me, that Shri Krishna was trying to advise people to do whatever, regardless of their karma and regardless of whatever vows or oaths they’d taken to do whatever’s the greatest good for the whole and in fact, that’s one of the big messages of Dr. King’s, is you can change your karma. Otherwise, what would be the point of knowing it at all? You can reset your Dharma if you like.

Rick: Yeah, there’s a verse from the yoga sutras, actually. It’s heyem duḥkham-anāgatam, which means avert the danger which has not yet come. So, you take say take certain actions, maybe you’re going to break your leg, but instead, you stub your toe because you’ve taken certain actions that have minimized the karma

Richard: And you can do that to a degree for others and for the world too. There’s world karma. There’s all kinds of different levels of karma. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, by the way on that note, One of the things I had a radio show in London at one time, with a court in a station here called LBC I used to do every week, and we used to get a lot of psychics coming into that show, and they would be pretty accurate. And we know, because it was set up carefully. I remember one for example, just saying, “Well, you’re wearing a pink shirt. It doesn’t go with your green tie.” And we know this wasn’t set up because we’d arranged, we got the callers in, they couldn’t pick the callers at all. But I said to him after, I said, “By the way, how much do you think you helped that man with his green tie and his big shirt? But the point I was going to make though, some of them were engaging virtually in like fortune-telling and that’s where I draw the line. That’s no good. To me that’s no good, because what’s the point of it? The only point of these things, all these kind of- call them spiritual impressions or intuition, whatever you call them they’re there to help us- even through dreams or whatever it might be -and they’re there to bring change, they’re not there to say well, that’s what’s going to happen. So, I’ll just wait for it to happen.

Rick: Yeah, we treat them often as a novelty or as extraordinary or something. I think there could be and probably have been and probably are elsewhere, societies in which all this stuff is just as natural as breathing to all the inhabitants of a civilization or a planet or whatever. It’s just seems far out to us, because it’s rare but airplanes would seem pretty far out a couple hundred years ago, and now no big deal.

Richard: Big deal. And as you know, we in the Aetherius study, we do believe in life on other planets.

Rick: sure

Richard: Not just on life. Planets that could sustain life as we have it here what the so-called Goldilocks equation where you’ll be that near to the Sun’s own or have enough water. We believe in life on Mars, life on Venus, but we might not be able to detect it. Even if we went there, we the human race.

Rick: Yeah, this is a point that as I was reading the books-I read The Nine Freedoms Also, I kept thinking they have to make this more explicit, because they keep talking about life on Pluto and places like that without reminding people that they’re talking about subtler dimensions.

Richard: Exactly.

Rick: I’m fine with life on Pluto or the Sun or whatever if we’re talking about subtle dimensions, but it’s totally absurd if you’re talking about Pluto itself, not a nice place to take a vacation.

Richard: Of course. And people think physical and I don’t know this, because obviously I wasn’t working for the Aetherius society when those early publications -The Nine Freedoms is my favorite book in the world as it happens. But I think there’s a couple of things. I know for a fact that Dr. King made it clear right from the beginning, right from his actually his very first public demonstration, which was in 1955 in London, that they were talking about subtle levels, about what we now call a multi-dimensional universe. That was made clear. But I also think in those early days, it almost didn’t matter to people because they couldn’t get there anyway. There was no space travel and the comprehension of what was going on, on other planets wasn’t known. But that’s just my take on it. I don’t know why it isn’t made more explicit as you say. But that is certainly that was like built into the framework of Dr. King’s early communications at a time when other UFO contactees or flying saucer contactees as they were known, weren’t making that clear.

Rick: Yeah, actually, if you’re going to reprint some of these books, I would put a forward where you actually explain that right up front, because otherwise it’s going to be a stumbling block for people to read it.

Richard: It’s funny you say that because one of our books which is out of print is called Life on the Planets and we are working on it right now, and the very thing you’ve just suggested has been done, and it hopefully will be coming out next year, and it will have a forward of the very nature you’re talking about before we go into describing what life is like on Mars, on Venus, on Jupiter and Saturn.

Rick: Good, okay, that’s good. So just for the sake of those who are squirming right now with this part of the discussion, let’s dwell a bit more on the multidimensional nature of life. I interviewed a guy named Jurgen Ziewe recently. and also 10 years ago, and he’s been sort of having these out-of-body, astral-traveling visual experiences for decades, and he’s also a very good artist, and he’s written a beautiful book illustrating all this stuff using AI to pretty accurately depict, he feels, what subtle dimensions look like, and there are really dark, hellish ones, and there are very beautiful heavenly ones, and there’s everything in between. So, personally, I think it’s an important thing for people to understand, if they really want to understand how life works, that it is multidimensional, and that there are probably more life forms on dimensions other than ours than there are on ours.

Richard: Yeah, and that’s exactly what the Dean of the Canterbury Cathedral didn’t know when I asked him the question about what happens when you die, because those in-between, as you put it, levels are the most populated, I would think, and you can go to them. You can travel out of body. People have near-death experiences, I know, but you don’t need to have a near-death experience. There are many who’ve had out-of-body experiences, there are many who’ve had dreams which were much more detailed and provably so in some cases than just their wandering mind. And it’s because these other realms exist. One point Dr. King always made about them, which is very interesting, is that on those realms, if you were to be on another realm, and he tied it down to seven realms and then there are some lower ones, as you said, hellish ones as well, unfortunately, but if you are on one of those realms, while you were there, even out of your physical world, it would be very physical. Matter of fact, I had an experience like this myself. I had an out-of-body experience decades ago actually, and I remember leaving my body, like floating out of the body. I was fully aware of it. I was being helped by a guide I don’t know who, but by some guide, a good person to be helping you at the moment like that, left the body behind and went and suddenly I found myself sort of moving along at great speed through a woods. And it was a bit like from that point, a scene in, I think it was Star Wars, a film where you’re curving around trees in a woods.

Rick: Yeah, that was one of the Star Wars movies.

Richard: Okay, I’m lucky because I wasn’t steering myself, so I seem to know, and I wasn’t bumping into anything. Anyway, when I got to what seemed to be like a railway siding, it was all very detailed. It was not vague, and I was still conscious and aware that I was out of the body at this point. It was not a dream. And I started walking down the road, walking down the road, because it was on a hill, the top of a hill, this railway siding. And as I walked down, there were people walking up who were going to bump into me. And I was like, “What’s that?” Then I realized they couldn’t see me. I could see them. So, it was like the reverse to say, some higher entity being here and can see us and we can’t see them. And so, it went on, it continued, the whole experience continued until it reached its culmination. I won’t bore you with the whole experience, but in the end, then I came straight back to my body, and woke up immediately. As it were, not even woke up, came round, let’s say, immediately.

Rick: I’ve interviewed at least half a dozen people, maybe a few more, who routinely see this kind of stuff, as they’re in the supermarket or whatever. We have a categorical index page on batgap.com and one of the categories is refined celestial perception, something like that. So, if people want to learn more about this, go to that category and you’ll see a bunch of interviews. But my sense of it, and I’ve only had a few little glimpses of this kind of perception myself, that were quite real, but just glimpses. But my sense of it is that there are some people, like I just described, who are human beings, who can perceive some of these other dimensions routinely, or maybe through some special thing, like a near-death experience or out-of-body experience. And then probably, I’m guessing, there are beings on these other levels who can only see their own level, but then some of them probably can also see our level, which is why, that’s a big part of what you do is that you and George King have interacted with subtle entities who are aware of us even though we’re not aware of them.

Richard: That’s true. I mean, Dr. King, I don’t claim contact with extraterrestrials myself. I’ve had sightings and I’ve campaigned for the truth with governments and so on, very effectively, to a degree anyway, effectively because the governments at the end, they’ll stonewall, you lie, etc. But having said that though, he did. I didn’t do that, but I certainly have had contacts from people in other realms, particularly actually writers, which wasn’t my idea, but it was the idea of a particular guide by the name of Charles Bradlaugh, who had contacted me. And what’s interesting about receiving a communication, mediumistically, of, shall we say, a poem, is that when you receive it, in my case anyway, in his case he entered Samadhi every time he received what we call a cosmic transmission. I wasn’t capable of that, but I had to use my yoga training and extreme concentration to the point where you can’t think about anything other than what is being given to, not even what it means. But certainly not whether it rhymes or what stanza it’s in or what meter it’s in or anything like that. For example, sometimes I would just get the letters of a word, not even the word, so be spelled out in my mind anyway as I received it very, very, very quickly. So, I do remember on one occasion while I was doing this, I was writing a poem down. I didn’t really know it was a poem, but I was just writing these words down and it can’t have been more than three to five minutes by the time I’d finished. When I then looked at it, it rhymed and I hadn’t once thought, June, moon, I hadn’t done any of that at all. It was just there, it rhymed. Some of the language was 17th century. It was in iambic tetrameters, I found out later, which I wouldn’t have known how to do that before. But this is a 17th century verse form. Then I got a couple of names, neither of which I’d heard of. It wasn’t Shakespeare or something like that. The names were Foucault Greville and William Davenant. So those are two, as it turns out, 17th century writers, and they’d done this together. It’s like a two-parter. One was more optimistic than the other, so it’s a balance like that. And I wrote it down. Now, I mention that because it’s a very good test for me. For a skeptical person who doesn’t believe me, of course it’s not proof. They can say, “Well, you make this up. You looked up the names, you put it together, you’re just pretending.” Fine, no problem. But for me, I know I didn’t. And so, it was a very good test for me in getting writers in terms of developing mediumship. I’ve gone way off your question, I do apologize.

Rick: Well, that’s okay, it’s interesting.

Richard: Yeah, but coming back to the experience of sensing the other realms, and sensing the people on other realms, in my case, I get a very strong impression which I can’t throw off. So, it could even be physical. So quite recently for example, I had an experience, I mentioned I’ve had three experiences of a somatic nature altogether. And the most recent one was this year, in August. And it was about what it showed me, this experience, it’s something I never believed really, which is the old biblical saying, “God made man in his own image.” And I thought to myself, well, really that they’ve got that wrong, because what they do is try and create God in our image as a man with a beard and a long hair and whatever, grey hair or white hair or whatever it is. And I kind of dismissed that. But then I had this experience, and if people are interested, all these things are on my website if they want to see any more detail on it. But what I realized through it, at a cosmic level, in a sort of state of what I might call entry-level cosmic consciousness. I’ve got a long way to go, so I don’t want to give any impression I kind of got there. It’s all experience in learning for me. But it was definitely cosmic consciousness at a level. And so, I was aware of the cosmos and what it actually means that God made man in his own way. It doesn’t mean God’s walking around in a humanoid body. It means that the equivalence is there, through the gaseous elements and so on. This was all revealed to me. So, after this, I was sitting down a bit later…

Rick: Are you going to tell us more because I still don’t get what you mean by what you understood that to mean, that phrase.

Richard: I’ll happily do that. But just want to just finish off the point about how I would get a contact from another realm. I was sitting down and when somebody wants to contact me, on the whole anyway, I’ll get a strong physical pressure upon me -could be on my knee or on my leg or on my foot or something- and it won’t stop you could think this could be an itch it could be something, but I can tell the difference very definite it doesn’t leave until I mentally say accept it and I’m aware of it and then it will stop immediately and then I know I’ve got to wait. So, the last time this happened to me I had the impression of Eckhart and of course I don’t know anything much I’ve heard of him but I and I don’t mean Eckhart Tolle by the way.

Rick: Meister Eckhart.

Richard: Meister Eckhart. I was very interested because I thought I didn’t get a message I was just aware of his presence and that’s all so I looked him up but I thought I wonder if there’s a link here with God made man in his own image and indeed I then looked him up and found there was that he himself in a not in a cosmic way but he had mooted the meaning of this as some something to do with consciousness and that we have within us a divine spark and so on. People can look into Meister Eckhart, but it’s 13th century, but All in all, this was I think why I had that particular Impression of his presence because I just had this experience quite recently and it linked in to something in a different way that he’d been saying got him into terrible trouble of course, with the Inquisition and because he died as a heretic or be under investigation as a heretic anyway But yeah, I divert, coming back to your question about I actually had it. I’ve got it written down here. But I don’t need it written down. I can tell you but What was revealed to me- there’s that the equivalence let’s just say of arms, that a humanoid body has expressed through the cosmos, through the emission of strength and of the things that for us arms would do. So, there’s like an equivalence, but it’s a complete cosmic level. I’ll give you another example. I believe myself that the galaxies are the chakras of the universe. So, there’s an absolute equivalence there. Some people have drawn parallel with the solar system and chakras and On, but I think it goes further because they are a combination, it’s a magnetic body and that’s our belief. This was actually revealed through another book called the 12 Blessings by Dr. King, that the galaxies are living intelligences but in terms of the equivalence with us, with God made man in his own image, you could see them as the chakras in the aura of the whole.

Rick: That makes sense. And as you were saying that it occurred to me that the Indriyas which are like the impulses of intelligence on a subtler level that manifest as senses and organs of actions and so on, on the gross level are said to have a cosmic counterpart.

Richard: I didn’t know that.

Rick: Yeah, I could probably even find you some kind of there’s a whole there’s a book called– oh it’s not going to come to me. Anyway, it’s kind of an introductory book to Vedanta. Vedanta Sara, it’s called. And they go into this kind of stuff. I’ll send you a link about it.

Richard: Thank you.

Rick: Yeah. Let’s talk a bit more about extraterrestrials and UFOs, which I’ve been fascinated in for a long time, fascinated with. And I think there’s a lot of chaff mixed in with the wheat on this topic.

Richard: Yeah, there is. And also, there is with mediumship too. I think before we leave that on a side, and psychic things in general, I should have warned, That you have to be very careful. And you have to be. There are people who think they’re hearing voices who are having psychological issues. And the big issue is telling the difference between your genuine, shall we say, intuition and your imagination. And this is where it can go wrong. I think on the other hand though, there are people in perhaps more of an academic leaning, who are suppressing their psychic or intuitive abilities because they don’t believe in them. So even if they’re getting realizations coming to them because they have good powers of concentration, they’re blocking it off and thinking, “Well, that’s my imagination.” So, it’s a whole area that has to be looked at. I thought I’d throw that in.

Rick: Which actually brings up a little bit of a side point but a critical one which is that critical thinking skills is a very good ability to culture if you’re on a spiritual path or in life in general. Because there’s a lot of nonsense flying around in every field of human endeavor. And you really need to – and it’s getting more intense and more

Richard: Yeah,

Rick: abundant, so you really have to be able to sort through all the BS.

Richard: I think a lot of people in the sort of new age mystical mind body spirit movement, dismissed critical thinking and logic. They think “I don’t need that. I’m feeling this and I’m feeling that” and you do need it. Where it goes wrong, is if you think that’s the end goal. Critical thinking, because critical thinking on its own won’t take you to enlightenment.

Rick: No, I think it’s just it’s an important tool in your tool kit.

Richard: It is a vital tool. I agree, right. Yeah,

Rick: okay So, did you ever see the movie Arrival? It’s a UFO kind of movie and I forget the actors in it, but it was Amy Adams and that other guy who got run over by a snowplow in real life. I forget his name. In any case., the cool thing about that movie, there were a bunch -I loved it- but one thing is that the ship, when it came, didn’t just sort of come from the sky and land, it materialized.

Richard: Right.

Rick: The whole idea was that it was sort of just materializing in our dimension from another dimension. So, one thing I was thinking about as I was reading Nine Freedoms, I think, was that “Yeah, but so these beings that live on all the other planets, why would they need a ship to get here? But maybe they do and maybe it has to be a kind of a ship that can not only go from there to here, but then can go from subtle to gross if it’s going to be visible to us”.

Richard: I actually think you’ve hit the nail on the head, and I think this is the issue by the way, that one of the issues, that the government’s are wrestling with right now, it’s extremely topical actually because, and I’ve been sort of inundated with interviews just on UFOs lately because I’ve campaigned on this for decades, seen a massive change and these are the questions that are coming up, because they found capabilities of which invisibility is one of them that witnesses- whistleblowers who have a terrible time some of these whistleblowers, by the way, that’s a whole other story- They get very maltreated but whistleblowers from the military the Navy the Air Force in America have said, they’ve talked about this capability of invisibility and reappearance as well. It’s something that Dr. King explained. Some of the things they found out and revealed in the last three years in these Congress hearings -and well done America for having Congress hearings, by the way, you leave Britain behind and most other countries behind and they’re all interested. They’ve all got an interest in UFOs, China, Russia, all of them are following this, but America is trying to be open except that your elected representatives, Democrat and Republican alike, are being lied to, they say, by their own government, by officials who are not elected, who are stopping them from getting to these truths. So, this is one of the things that you’ve hit on about the multi-dimensional existence of UFOs that absolutely befuddles them. They just see it as superior technology which they can’t explain. I’ve been commenting recently on a bit of footage that came out this month actually, in a congress hearing. So, they can’t understand that, but I will say-

Rick: You’re referring to the missile hitting a UFO and bouncing off it.

Richard: Yeah, it’s bouncing off it. And if people haven’t seen that, it’s easy to find, it’s on my website, it’s all over the place, that footage. But I will say this, I’m going to give a shameless plug to a book for which I get zero royalties, I would say, which is one of the books I wrote with Dr. King, Contacts with the gods from Space, and that was published in just a year before he passed on actually, in 1996 and in there he answers, he explains 29 years ago some of these phenomena and how they operate that they’re now finding. Invisibility is one, the capability of his answer to how this would happen that a hellfire missile would bounce off the side of an extraterrestrial craft is that it would be because they have force fields around them, these craft. And so that prevents it and it goes into more depth in the book about that.

Rick: It’s your basic Star Trek technology.

Richard: Yeah, exactly. Yes, nothing original but this is the kind of tech, they haven’t even thought, well if they thought of it, they haven’t mentioned it in any of these hearings. And then the other thing of course that he hits on, is the gravitational capabilities to overcome gravity, to take off at tremendous velocities and even their mental Powers. They can arrive in a destination that an American jet is headed for before that American jet gets there and wait for the jet, and this is from testimony. So, you have to see this then leads to the questions that I don’t think they can answer This is where you need a genuine contactee of which I would say Dr. King is foremost, but I’m not the only one. I’m not saying that at all. Which is okay, then why are they here? What is their purpose? What are they trying to show us? What is their message? When will they come closer? Those types of questions cannot be answered even if they disclosed fully, because their interest for the most part- by they, I don’t just mean America. I mean all these countries- is defense. All they want to do is, if they can, is reverse engineer them, keep it as secret as they can and use this weaponry in warfare and that’s because their motive is completely wrong. And of course, the extraterrestrials know that. They don’t want to cooperate with that.

Rick: Yeah, Donald Trump just changed the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. Thought that would be a good idea for some reason.

Richard: be more honest, maybe I don’t know.

Rick: So you just actually posed a whole bunch of questions that maybe you can answer. But the classic question that everybody asks is well, why don’t they just land on the White House lawn? Yeah, how do you answer that one?

Richard: Well, I answer it with one word which is karma, but you could go into more depth. They know our motive. They know the effect that would have. Let’s face it. If this footage is true and no one, which has surprised me, as yet denied it. I’m expecting it to be denied by the way, this footage of the Hellfire missile bouncing off the craft, the extraterrestrial craft. But if that’s an example of what happens, you can’t really be surprised that they don’t land in some public place. They’ll be immediately fired. They don’t mind because we can’t harm them. And they don’t retaliate. They’re peaceful. They didn’t fire back, by the way. But the point is, they are waiting for us to change, not just with our intellect, but with our innermost being, I think is the phrase actually used by the Master Aetherius. And when that happens, they will come closer. In the meantime, it isn’t helping the fact that when people lie about it, and people aren’t pursuing the genuine information that is available out there.

Go onwards, go upwards, but never forget to go inwards.

Rick: Yeah, well obviously if they did try to land on the White House lawn, It’s that that area is very heavily protected and fortified and they’d get blasted, and they know that anywhere close- they could try landing somewhere in the middle of Utah. But if they were blasted it would have any effect on them But that isn’t the point though. It wouldn’t be good for us. It wouldn’t be good for our karma. It’s not good for our karma. Presuming this footage is real, that we fired at a craft, that was shown happened last October. This isn’t good. And so, what they’re working for -and by the way as you will know from- you’re obviously an expert on the old Sanskrit text, I can tell that.

Rick: well I’ve got some little snippets here and there.

Richard: I love them, but I don’t know Sanskrit. But let’s face it, the push park of Imana in the Rama Yana, was a wonderful crop. This isn’t new.

Rick: Yeah, you’re talking about some kind of aerial car that was discussed in Ramayana.

Richard: And they’re quite open about it. And it seems like a satellite seemed to carry a lot of people.

Rick: They also had some pretty formidable weapons.

Richard: They certainly did indeed. But again, the Pushpaka Vimana was used in a peaceful way once it was recaptured by the, you might say, the forces of light by Rama and his people. And the Bible, the Bible is absolutely full of UFOs and so are many other traditions, the Greek legends, one could go on and on. I find it quite fascinating. The Star of Bethlehem, that’s not a star. And the people who cited that, the three of them, were all wise. So, we’re told, these are wise men. So, I would believe their story if they’re so wise, and so on. So, these craft have been with us for thousands and thousands of years. They are waiting for us to change. They will pick their time at the best possible psychological moment for us, not to satisfy curiosity, not to satisfy the desire for weaponry, but when it’s going to have the best possible effect on humanity as a whole. And that hasn’t come yet. When we change sufficiently, then they will.

Rick: Yeah, I think you’re right. When you say karma, I think that’s what you’re using that word to summarize what you just said, but it’s not that we could do them any serious harm if they tried to come here, but it would be too much of a, I presume it would be too much of a stretch for humanity to have completely open contact and interaction at this point. There has to be a certain readiness or maturity before it would be good for humanity. Although, it’s funny, Ronald Reagan said something like, what would really unite humanity would be if, , some kind of alien invasion, that was the way he understood it, because then we’d all rally together, to combat it. But again, the whole thing was put in a bellicose tone. But what would really unite humanity, is if we realized that we were part of a much vaster world.

Richard: Well exactly, if we all came together and welcomed them, because they don’t regard us as multiple races or multiple nations, they regard us as one race and they are helping us, I believe, tremendously. One of the things Dr. King mentioned is a craft which he calls, which you would have read about in The Nine Freedoms, called satellite number three and this is coming into orbit at certain times every year and we have the exact dates, and we publish the exact dates and you can cooperate with it and you can test it, because this the purpose of this craft isn’t to be cited the purpose or seen even the purpose is to radiate spiritual energy, to radiate helpful power to the world, all relative to how much good is being done. It doesn’t mean you got to believe in it or even know about it, but it will potentize the actions of all people who are doing good in any way on this earth so that’s one of the many things they are doing to help us, but they can only go so far because what they won’t do is contravene our karma, which provides as we were talking earlier the experiences we need. They don’t want to rob us of experience. They could come here and solve all our problems. For a start, they can get here, we can’t get there. These are more advanced, highly civilized, peaceful intelligences. And I believe Jesus came from another planet. I know this is controversial and even Buddha, whether at the gas pump or not, I believe he came from another planet. And Shri Krishna, so that’s my belief. That’s what I think an avatar really is. They would say a divine incarnation or an incarnation of Vishnu, but I think these were interplanetary beings who came to Earth to help us at certain given times, but they had to, because of our karma, it always comes back to karma, be born through the womb of Earth women to perform their mission. They weren’t allowed to just come here and intervene and solve our problems because we have to make that move. It’s down to us.

Rick: Yeah, a good analogy might be, a physics professor could just give the students all the answers to the tests.

Richard: Perfect answer.

Rick: And it’d be easy for them to pass the test then, but that wouldn’t really, they wouldn’t learn anything.

Richard: They’d learn nothing. Yeah, exactly. It’s that, exactly that. And some of the yogis have followed that kind of principle too. Yeah, I always remember the yoga Nanda one, where this this student. He tells a story of a yogi, and a student went to see him and said “Will you be my guru? ort something o that effect? Will you teach me truth, Master?” and I don’t know how he put it and this yogi grabbed hold of his head, and put his head into I think a bucket of water and held it there till he nearly was spluttering and he brought his head out and said “When your head was in the water, what did you want most?” And the student said “air Master,”, and the master said “well when you can say truth then I’ll teach you” and then he told him to go his way

Rick: Interesting

Richard: That was a strict yogi. Yeah.

Rick: Yeah, there’s variations on this story. It’s a good one.

Richard: I’m sure there are. Yeah

Rick: And I was just thinking, you meant Jesus coming from another planet. You’re alluding to Venus, he was supposed to have come from Venus. And of course, again, you have to realize the subtle level of– he’s a subtle being on Venus. He’s not hanging out in 900-degree temperatures. But if that’s– one way of understanding how that might be true is that, why would he have to come from any particular place? Well, maybe subtle beings don’t just hang out in interstellar space. Maybe they gravitate around or inhabit an actual thing that we could observe physically and for some reason. Do you know a reason why?

Richard: Well, I do actually, yeah, one of the causes would be a group soul of Venusians who will be bonded, if you like to use that term, with a certain type of, this is the bad phraseology on my part, but a certain type of mindset which will draw them together. That will be one kind of a factor, but it’s a much bigger one than that, which is, that the planets, and the sun actually, but the planets in the solar system are living intelligences. They are very advanced. Mother Earth, Gaia as the ancient Greeks called her, is the most wonderful intelligence and we owe her everything. We owe her life, experience, even the power of Kundalini, which is just an ineffable power, life transforming life force, which we can bring within our being. The mother earth, now it’s the same. So, on Venus, when someone is born on say Mars or on Venus, they are born through the flame of that planet. You see inklings of this by the way in the Mahabharata actually, particularly I think Draupadi and her twin brother were born through a flame. So, there is records in history and I think personally Mahabharata is much more ancient than a lot of historians say it is. Not necessarily the writing of it, but the actual occurrences. But you can see that kind of concept. But on the other planets, they don’t use procreation, they don’t need to. It all comes back to the flame of the logos of that planet, and they are in tune with their own planets, and they revere and worship virtually their planets as great, their teachers as well, in a way. And so, they are attracted and I mentioned earlier the galaxy, I see it as a chakra in the universe and also a planet is in a way a kind of a chakra in space. Dr. King used to say that chakras are the second most important thing in existence, the most important being life itself and it sounds like quite a far-out thing to say but I must say since I’ve had more advanced experiences myself, and I’m still learning I stress, I have come to realize the absolute importance of chakras so Jesus actually the master Aetherius, actually the Lord Buddha, although an aspect of Buddha I believe is on earth now on Shambhala right now. But having said that, they are drawn to their planet as a spiritual home, let’s call it that.

Rick: Yeah I had a thought as you said that, which is that if these beings, well, these beings are subtle, dwelling in subtle realms, not in gross biological bodies and as we know, subtler realms are much more a field of possibilities than grosser realms. Even physics tells us this. The more things manifest, the more constricted they become in terms of what can happen and possibilities.

Richard: The more density.

Rick: More dense and kind of calcified in a way. And so, on these subtle realms all kinds of things might be readily possible which couldn’t really happen on a gross realm.

Richard: Very true.

Rick: Procreation being one of them, it wouldn’t need to go through the mechanisms that we do in biological bodies.

Richard: And I believe there’ll come a time when that’ll happen on Earth too, when we’re more in tune with Mother Earth. Taking up your point, I’ve had a couple of experiences actually that bear that out. First of all, when people talk about the chakras, and people who, you’ll see it on the internet and so on, and they’ll give colors for them. I’ve noticed they tend to follow often the physical color spectrum of earth. So, if you have red, and then you have yellow, then in between it they’ll tend to think the chakra there would be orange, for example. Because that’s what would happen physically. But I don’t think color at a higher-level works in the way just taking up your point, that it necessarily works here. Likewise sound. I’ve had one out of body experience where I- and I did music as my degree at university. And I heard chords being played, that if those chords were played on earth would be atonal, would be dissonant. Because the notes were so close to each other. They were less than a semitone apart, some of them, and they were in clusters of notes. And yet on that realm, which I take to be a higher one, they were absolutely beautiful. Beautiful conglomerations of sound. So, I just bear out your point that the physical laws that apply here don’t necessarily apply in the same way on higher realms.

Rick: Yeah. It’s much more a field of all possibilities, you could say. That was one of the things that it came out of my interview with Jürgen Zeewey, it’s like on these subtle realms, people like they have parades for instance, and in which they take the forms of fantastical animals, or just kind of like a circus, but their actual physical bodies can morph into these things because they have that kind of plasticity.

Life on Other Planets

Richard: It’s much more subject to mind and telepathy can happen in a way which is very subtle. For example, I saw, while I was there, again, a musical thing, an orchestra outdoors playing, quite a large one. I think it was a string orchestra, but there was a lot of parts to it, first, second violin, viola, cello, and other instruments, double bass and so forth. But the interesting thing is they were improvising. I could tell they were improvising, like a jazz trio might be improvising, and yet it was multi, multi-complex music with numerous parts playing together in harmony. These were people who could look like you and me. They were sitting there with their violin. It was outdoors, but other than that, they were gathered like an orchestra. They didn’t, as far as I could tell, have a conductor. And they were just, they were absolutely in tune. That to me was like, “God, how did they do that?”

Rick: Yeah, they had enough coherence within and among themselves that they could do that.

Richard: Yeah, indeed.

Rick: So, I guess just to retrace our steps a little bit, I got the impression, and maybe you just said it, that Earth is kind of like the kindergarten of the solar system in terms of its spiritual maturity. These other civilizations on the other planets are, albeit subtle, but more highly evolved spiritually than us. Is that correct?

Richard: Yeah, with Belzon, as we might say, absolutely. In that, they don’t have wars. Wars are insanity, complete insanity. And a lot of that, , the imbalance, the unfair distribution of wealth and the so many things that happen here they wouldn’t permit, they wouldn’t dream of walking past a sick person without sending them healing or a plant by the way. So, they are yes, to put it mildly highly advanced, they are able, they’re capable of space travel themselves, and to come to an earlier point you made, they don’t necessarily need craft to do that, but craft can be useful. Some craft aren’t manned at all. They can be probes. This craft that was fired at might not have had anybody in it, but they can travel not only through the solar system, but beyond. And so, they’re aware. They’re much more aware of all life, and as a result of that, they’re far more aware of really the why of existence, you might call it. The purpose of the cosmos and the plan of God.

They don’t have wars. Wars are insanity, complete insanity. And a lot of that, the imbalance, the unfair distribution of wealth and the so many things that happen here they wouldn’t permit.

Rick: I thought of that other question. So it was, I’ve always thought of, not always, but I’ve pretty much always thought of the universe as being this one kind of mass of intelligence, permeate, intelligence is everywhere. But I hadn’t thought as much as I have now, having read these books of yours, that there’s actually sentient intelligence in all kinds of places which we don’t consider habitable. I thought, okay, maybe there’s an advanced civilization on one out of a thousand, , stars or something like that. But if your description of our solar system, I’m not just saying yours, George King’s and so on, is that all the planets, including the sun, are inhabited by subtle intelligent life, then I wonder if that is true of the entire universe. So, every single, we know that almost all stars have planets around them. We can see that with the web and I think it’s Kepler telescopes. But this could mean, if all these other solar systems are like ours, this could mean that pretty much all the stars are inhabited.

Returning to God as Conscious Gods

Richard: Yeah, by and large, I can’t be dogmatic and say I know that every planet’s inhabited, but by and large, yes. It’s teeming with life and, and very different kinds of life forms. Certainly not saying humanoid necessarily at all, multiple forms of life existing throughout the universe, all evolving back to God again, where we came from and of course the beauty of that is as, and the, actually the master Jesus, as we call him, who spoke through Dr. King and gave the 12 blessings. He had this wonderful statement in there that we will return to the Godhead as conscious gods. So, when we go back, we go back with something. It’s like there is a purpose behind all this. There’s a purpose behind what they used to call the out-breathing and then the in-breathing, the great return which is we turn with a type of consciousness, which is way beyond just intellect. A complete consciousness gained through experience, the mastery of experience, you might say, the right experience. And that experience can be internal, in our case, through the chakras, through kundalini, through the nadis internally within us and our mind within us, the unconscious, psychologists call the unconscious, which should be divided into two things, subconscious and superconscious. They often miss out on superconscious, but that whole area taken back into light, taken back into perfection, as with the outward journey, it will all eventually be consumed back into God where it came from.

Rick: St. Teresa of Avila said, “It appears that God himself is on the journey.”

Richard: That’s funny, because in her case, that would be Jesus, of course.

Rick: Well, yeah, but no, she’s thinking of God in the big sense.

Richard: I see, okay.

Rick: Just the whole…

Richard: Okay.

Rick: And what you just said reminded me of that, because you can think of the whole universe as being the manifestation of God on his journey.

Richard: Yes.

Rick: And all of us are little cells in that body of God, which we are on our individual journeys as part of God being on his or her or its journey.

Richard: Yeah.

Rick: The whole thing is one just giant evolution machine.

Richard: His, her and its, I think. Yeah, agreed. Now, one of the things I love, and I imagine you might too, too, is the fact that some of these experiences, these spiritual experiences, these Buddha at the gas pump experiences, if you like, that are being had and have been had through the ages, are absolutely uniform. That, okay, you can have all your dogmas, you have your different religions and your different sets of mindsets and all the rest of it, of it, but the actual experiences, whether it be Hildegard of Bingen, or whether it be a yogi in the Himalayas, whether it be Wordsworth writing a poem on Tintern Abbey, they are having, and they’re using different descriptive terminologies, but they’re having the same exact experiences which shows the universality of it. It’s above dogma, it’s above even any particular one religion, it’s a universal path, if you like a universal journey, a cosmic journey.

The actual experiences, whether it be Hildegard of Bingen, or whether it be a yogi in the Himalayas, whether it be Wordsworth writing a poem on Tintern Abbey, they are having the same exact experiences.

Rick: Yeah and it’s not necessary to believe in any of this stuff. I like to I often quote Aldous Huxley who said that the greatest advance of the scientific age, your greatest contribution was the development of the working hypothesis and I think you can apply that to all the spiritual concepts. Take them as working hypotheses.

Richard: Indeed.

Rick: Don’t reject them, don’t believe them.

Embracing “I Don’t Know”

Richard: I’m always saying that yeah, I think that’s very important and people are having experiences that they don’t understand. When I’ve taught psychics in the past and I said the three words you need and they’re essential words and they are these,” I don’t know.” And you’ve got, don’t lose those because a lot of people when they start down this line, and particularly if they see themselves as a psychic, then they’ve got to know everything, and answer everything and if they can’t, they failed somehow. No. You have an experience you don’t always know exactly what it means. It will be revealed to you eventually either in this life or another one. But just if you’re not sure just keep it on a shelf, I don’t expect anyone to believe the things I’m saying to you here today or even to believe in Dr. King or whatever it’s up to them if they’re interested to look into it. I’m lucky. I knew him. I would saw him at close quarters, and it’s been verified to me. But we’re all you know traveling and forming our own, evolution and reaching our own realizations and that’s the way it should be.

Rick: Yeah, and when you say I don’t know, that’s not an absolute statement. It’s like, for instance, if I said do UFOs exist, you wouldn’t say I don’t know. You’d say yeah, I think they do and there’s this evidence and that evidence. So obviously, the word belief is not really in the scientific lexicon, but the degrees of certainty you could say, based upon empirical evidence.

Richard: I’m sure I feel I’ve experienced certainty now and so I do think somatic states for example bring you a certainty and I think the certain things you can start to know. No I’m not, if I’ve mis-explained it badly I didn’t mean to say we don’t know anything. I just mean there are certain experiences that can happen to you, that you won’t necessarily understand at the time or certain things can come to you to which you don’t know the answer and that’s fine. But for sure as you go down this path and particularly as you start to tap into your intuition, and it starts to live within you, to the point where you can recognize it, if you like the still small voice within if you like, you do gain greater and greater certainty of various things and if you enter higher states of consciousness there are things you’ll know and that’s for sure.

Rick: Yeah, well I always like to compare spirituality and science and think of spirituality as a scientific enterprise in which you gain certainty by degrees as you gain experience. And you don’t necessarily have to reach a state of ultimate, absolute, 100% certainty. Maybe you will, but then there could be… that won’t mean that you know everything, because again, there will always be some deeper realization that could be had.

Richard: Well, that’s one of the things about The Nine Freedoms which you’ve been good enough to look at. That book, The Nine Freedoms, that’s my favorite book. Because Dr. King is saying there that even if you reach Nirvana or even when you reach Nirvana, you go beyond that and eventually you’ll ascend and then reincarnation will become unnecessary. That’s another thing that’s explained in the Aetherius Society, not only that reincarnation exists and how it operates, but why it operates. Why we even need it. But there’ll come a time when we won’t need it. And then you go on, and then even when you reach that level of being a Bodhisattva or an Ascended Master, that isn’t the end either. You’ll then go to other planets, and then you’ll go to higher planets, and then eventually you’ll go to the Sun. And evolution continues all the way through at all these levels. So, it comes back to point we agreed on earlier that when you say you’ve arrived, then you really haven’t started.

Rick: Yeah. Well, when you say reincarnation won’t be needed, you’re what you are. I think what you’re saying is you’ll be reincarnating someplace, but it won’t necessarily be here.

Richard: Well, you’ll escape the wheel of rebirth. Let me put it that way.

Rick: Rebirth here or rebirth anywhere? If you’re in some higher local, you’re in inhabiting some kind of body. You’re in a body but it’s not a reincarnated.

Richard: Well let me say, it’s not a body that is produced through birth, physical birth, physical procreation birth. Yeah, you can inhabit a body for hundreds even thousands of years at that point. There are, incidents through history of people who have had ages like that and you know there are intelligence, perhaps the best known one in the West, although it’s misused this often, but it’s Count Saint-Germain. And there are many others, there are others through history, and there are others, think male and female, ascended masters with us who no longer need to be reborn. They no longer need to even have an aura, because an aura to them is a limitation, because it’s their own mind stuff, almost, I won’t say imprisoning them, but let’s just say limiting them. But at our stage of evolution, we need it. We need reincarnation because we need to be stopped in our tracks. We need to die, physically die, go to another realm and recalibrate, if you like, reassess with our higher self what experiences we need because we, this is my words for it, we can’t just be trusted to work that out for ourselves yet. But when you get to a certain evolved stage, you’re so in tune with your higher self, you don’t need that recalibration, because you’re following it anyway because you want to. You’re too wise to fall off the path or create negative karma, you might say. Then you won’t need to reincarnate. That’s what I mean.

Rick: Yeah. Perhaps the Rolling Stones said it right when they said you can’t always get what you want, but you get what you need. So, you end up where you’re going to be of most use. And if you’re some kind of ascended master, it wouldn’t really be very useful necessarily, Or it might be in some cases for you.

Richard: And if only the Rolling Stones understood that.

Rick: Yeah, and to quote another cultural thing, when Darth Vader was about to Kill Obi-Wan Kenobi -Obi-Wan Kenobi said “If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” So, in other words, he would get to a place where he would be free of the human limitation, but he’d have a much more powerful range of influence.

Richard: Yeah.

Rick: And so, I’m just thinking as you talk about Ascended Masters and so on what we need to be here going through this because we are, and so obviously we need to be, because if we didn’t, we wouldn’t be here. But if we got to Ascended Master status, then we’d have a different role to play and it wouldn’t necessarily be as useful for us to be here.

Richard: True. Very true.

Rick: Either for us or for the world.

The New Age and Earth’s Evolution

Richard: No, and they don’t even need to stay on this planet either, but they stay here to help us. They could move on to other planets at that point. They don’t need the experience cycle currently being offered on Earth. I think that will change, and I think that’s what, it’s a very misunderstood term, the new age really will be. Time when people will start to realize these things, and eventually, eventually, everybody will be ascended on this. That’s how I see it, but that’s quite a way off.

Rick: Would that mean the Earth would no longer be inhabited by biological life?

Richard: No, because all the other planets, they don’t, well, I wouldn’t say all of them, but on other planets, they don’t reincarnate in the way we do through procreation, and they’re very much there on those planets. What will happen is we’ll be much more in tune with the Mother Earth herself, and her flame, and her life-giving force, and appreciative of it. Ecology won’t be for the sake of our children and our grandchildren all the time as it usually is. It would be primarily for the sake of her as a living being.

It would be primarily for the sake of her as a living being.

Rick: Yeah, okay. Good. So, I have some notes here that you guys sent me and I’m just looking, we’re covering a lot of it as we go. But here’s a heading that we could flesh out a little bit more maybe. The spiritual message of advanced extraterrestrials. How would you sum up, or you can elaborate on their spiritual message.

Richard: Well I probably do know better than quoting one excerpt which is about service from the master Aetherius.

Rick: A being whom George Floyd, George King chanted.

Changing Global Consciousness

Richard: He was the one who first contacted Dr. King in 1954, in what we call “The command”, and from 1955 onwards, Dr. King went public. Dr. King was quite a shy person actually, he didn’t like the public eye, he had no choice really. He was a brave, courageous man who stuck to his guns and has been vindicated many, many times. But he started to channel the master Aetherius right from the beginning, and this was in 1960, and it’s a transmission that’s called “From Free Will to Freedom,” which is the key to everything, actually, because free will is when we really follow our lower self, and freedom is when we follow our higher self. Hence, the ascended masters have freedom. But this is the quote about service. “This is the great key, the great yoga, the great practice, the great Christianity, the great religion, the greatest deeds that you can do in these days. Service, service, service is the key which will open the doors to all the powers, to all forms of enlightenment, service to others. A thousand years ago was meditation in the silence, today it is service in the noise, in the clatter, service in the foulness, in the smell, in the ignorance of mankind.” And that’s really the essence of their message, to give service, yes, do the spiritual practices, yes, meditate, yes, go within, but above all, to be giving service through prayer, through healing, through teaching, through the sort of things we’re doing right now, sharing this knowledge wherever we can. And one thing I’d like to say to anyone listening or watching, by the way, when we put our minds to these kinds of thoughts, particularly in an open-minded way, when we’re studying teachings or considering them or listening to them, we are empowering them. And when we empower them, that affects the mind belt of the whole world, and that makes them more readily accessible to humanity as a whole. So, you might think, “Well, I’m just studying for my own benefit,” but you’re not. You are studying for your own benefit, but you’re also studying for the benefit of the whole world, because you’re putting those thoughts, which are desperately needed, into the mind belt, or the etheric belt, if you like, or the Akashic belt of the world. And this will make them more readily accessible, because at the moment, the kind of thoughts that are there are political, are sport, are all kinds of multifarious activities, And that’s what’s being fed and so those are the sorts of things on this level at least, that we kind of as it were suck up, that we are readily thought and they’re easy to think. And so, we got to bring a kind of change of consciousness in this way if we were on a higher realm. We’re on what I might call so dr. King said there were seven levels of this is level one. We’re on say level five, high level or level six It’d be much easier there to think of spiritual thought. Matter of fact, it’s quite difficult not to. And when you do enter a higher state of consciousness, you have to be careful because you, I say careful, but there’s a tendency just to want to bliss out. And if you’re trying to focus on something, you need to kind of bring your concentration back to the point. You don’t reject the bliss, but you have to work through it, which is a wonderful thing. I make it sound tough. But you can almost just drift off, because those thoughts that sort of emanation of thought, is so powerful and it’s a wonderful thing. But here on this realm is quite rare. So, this kind of thinking is desperately needed.

You might think, “Well, I’m just studying for my own benefit,” but you’re not. You are studying for your own benefit, but you’re also studying for the benefit of the whole world.

Rick: Yeah, you probably know that verse from the Gita that “Many branched and endlessly diverse are the intellects of the irresolute, but the resolute intellect is one-pointed,” so being in a higher state does not necessarily mean being a space cadet. You actually have much sharper focus of attention, if you’re properly integrated and with that state.

Richard: Yeah, well, actually the there’s an interesting statement along those lines actually is a different context about ascension in in the in The Nine Freedoms, where and it’s going to take me perhaps a while to find it, but it’s he I think he describes it as a single pointed, single-faced jewel and single-pointed I’ll have to find the exact quote. I don’t want to misquote. It is quite similar to what you just said.

Rick: Yeah, and on the collective consciousness point, you didn’t use that phrase, but you were alluding to the same idea. A number of people do talk about that. I mean your fellow Brit Rupert Sheldrake talks a lot about it.

Richard: Yeah

Rick: Yeah, and many others. And the idea is that consciousness is kind of like a big sponge, and there are hierarchies of it. There’s individual, conscious, family, community, nation, world. And it absorbs the emanations of all eight billion of us, and they build up, whether positive or negative. And some would say that wars are just the outbreak of collective of negativity and collective consciousness much like lightning is the as a result of enough static electricity in a cloud. It has to release at some point.

Richard: yeah, indeed. Let me just give you that quote which I mentioned then we’ll come back to that

Rick: I was just giving you some time to-

Richard: Thank you, yes we’re working together on this. yeah. so, this is the quote “Ascension is like a single-faced jewel. It is pointed, It reflects light and radiates light, and yet it is made up of all jewels.” So that’s a beautiful quote there. But that’s so true, and this is one of the things about working for peace, and we do a lot of prayer for peace. In fact, over 200 of us went down to pray for peace and aid in Gaza. I know it’s still terrible out there.

Rick: We went to Gaza or to Israel?

Richard: No, we went to a holy mountain or hill in England. people came from other countries; we prayed there using mantra and the 12 blessings given by Jesus together, combined, and sent it out and we asked, we prayed for aid. No, we were praying for ourselves. We’re praying for aid to get into Gaza. Now this was in July, and they’d been trying to bring this, open these human corridors for months and they hadn’t managed to do it at all. And within hours of this, this is just a small example of consciousness, how consciousness can change things, within a few hours of that pilgrimage, completely unpredicted, Israel said they would open the human humanitarian corridors and aid did get in for some period of time. We know it’s terrible again now, but it did bring a little bit, a little pinprick of light for a little while and I believe it was so dramatic and so soon after our pilgrimage to this mountain of trying to change consciousness, this is my point, that it does work, it really does work. And I actually think that this universal consciousness is the key because even if politics isn’t the answer, in the end, surely we found that now, and even if you could get them to negotiate a peace and obviously we want them to negotiate a peace or finance even if you could bring a financial solution those things will only work long-term if consciousness changes as well and that’s the only lasting solution and that’s why sending out spiritual energy sending out prayer energy and healing energy and positive thought and spiritual thought is the main answer.

Rick: Yep, another quote from Aldous Huxley was that “All the problems we see in the world are actually not problems, they’re symptoms.” They’re symptoms of the underlying lack of, I’m putting words in his mouth, but we hadn’t really dealt with the issue on the level of consciousness.

Richard: And karma.

Rick: Yeah, how could the world be peaceful and prosperous and happy and all that stuff if most of the people in it are all messed up within themselves?

Richard: Exactly, and we have to change our karma.

Rick: Right.

Richard: And change world karma. And everybody can do it. And one of my main messages to people, the main message of the Interplanetary Masters through Dr. King is that we can do a lot. An individual can do a lot. Don’t underestimate what you can do they say. One person sending energy in the right way for the right reason of a positive spiritual nature could save lives, could save many lives and a lot of people don’t think they can do that.

Rick: Yeah. Margaret Mead said something like “Don’t underestimate the power of a small group of dedicated people -that’s really what usually brings about big changes in the world.” I’m very roughly paraphrasing.

Richard: Yeah, and we’ve seen that, haven’t we, multiple times.

Rick: Yeah, when I was in the DM movement we used to do something similar. I spent three months in Iran with a group of people just before the Iranian revolution and we also had groups in like South Africa with the whole apartheid thing going on, Central America where there was a war in Nicaragua and my wife was in northern Israel and she wasn’t my wife at the time. Trouble spots like that. With the understanding and the hope that our presence there, meditating in large groups, would radiate an influence which would have an impact on society. And various scientists studied it and, looked at crime and accidents and war deaths and all that kind of stuff and it seemed to be having an effect.

Richard: Yeah, I’m sure it was, and of course one of the advantages we have in the society in the Aetherius society, is that we are able to do certain missions that we do directly in cooperation with beings from other planets, because this was all set up I must say meticulously by Dr. King. So, we’re carrying on some of that direct cooperation and so every step we take towards them they can take two towards us And if for example, we were releasing- let’s just say a thousand hours person hours, people praying for an hour thousand people that amount of energy- The ascended masters might be able then to release ten thousand. Because they depend on our action, just like the cosmic intelligences depend on our action in order to come closer to us. We’re going to lie about UFOs, if we’re going to Ignore them, if we’re going to fire weapons at them. This isn’t going to help them to come closer among us at all.

Rick: Yeah, they, there’s something in the Gita about that too. It says if you support the gods, they’ll support you. There’s this kind of reciprocal thing that happens.

Richard: Yeah, exactly and they say “you take one step towards us, we’ll take two towards you” and a classic example was Chernobyl, where I was actually physically with Dr. King in Arizona when it happened, and I just before it happened, on an hour or so before it happened, he received a communication preparing -he wasn’t told it would be Chernobyl. He has been given specifics in other occasions. On this occasion he wasn’t, but he was told it was going to be a dire catastrophe, “You have to send out spiritual energy in cooperation with extraterrestrial craft, so that they can intervene.” Now we were doing this for several days, and it was several days before the world knew about Chernobyl. This was 1986. It was terrible, Chernobyl, but it could have been many, many times worse, so we published that in 1986. when Chernobyl happened, there was a crowd of people saw above it a UFO that emitted a pink beam into it and this caused a steam explosion instead of a full nuclear explosion in that particular power plant and this reduced the impact of Chernobyl fourfold. But we didn’t know that in 19…but we did know that we’d cooperated with them. So, it’s that cooperation that can help to bring about intervention.

Rick: Interesting. A couple of questions came in from the audience that’s…I haven’t even read them yet, but let’s see what they are. So, this is from someone named B in France. Do you think that if/when “one arrives,” quote, then they would be moving on from earth to existence as in they have accomplished what they came here for, and would no longer need to be here.

Richard: Very good question. If one arrives, I would it take to be that what I would call a full and complete state of cosmic consciousness, then one would move on beyond the need to reincarnate. I do mean a full and complete. I mentioned that I’ve had cosmic consciousness experiences, but I know for sure that they aren’t complete. That I know from my own, I know that I haven’t completely transmuted all the energy in all the chakras and taken it up, just to be technical about it, with the power of Kundalini into Brahma chakra. But I know I’ve done it to a degree. Now when a person, through lives, is able to do that completely, such a person has demonstrated internally that they no longer need to go through the process of rebirth and they can move on. So, to come to B’s question, the answer is yes, if you really arrived, you’ll actually know all too well how much further you have to go, of course, but it won’t necessarily entail the kind of experiences you’ve had to that date, because you’ve then mastered the very fact that you’re able to transmute and raise all the energies in all the lower chakras. And all the chakras are good, let me stress that. They’re all essential, they’ve all got wonderful functions. I could go into those at length, but I won’t. But once you’ve done that, you’ve also demonstrated that you’ve mastered the experience cycle of this Earth. You can then move on, and then you’d either become an ascended master and volunteer to remain here, male or female, by the way, that term master isn’t male, particularly, and you’d stay here to help, or you’ll go on then to another planet and gain interplanetary experience and so it goes all the way through evolution.

Rick: Have you ever heard of something called the law of one?

Richard: I’ve heard of that.

Rick: A friend of mine is really into it. A guy named Doug Scott who’s been on this show and the reason I thought of it, is that they say, well it’s a channeled material that some lady channeled, and supposedly it’s an intelligence from Venus, which is a kind of collective intelligence that is able to communicate through this woman. And there’s a whole voluminous record of all of her talks and or channelings and all that stuff. But it reminds me a little bit of the kinds of things you’re saying because they have this very expansive understanding of the universe and all the different levels and they say when you reach the highest level that a human can reach. Then you graduate and then you’re in kindergarten at the beginning of the next series of levels that you can go through, and there’s probably no end to it, but it’s kind of interesting that that too, is supposedly a collective consciousness from Venus.

Richard: Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it? I don’t know if you know Swedenborg at all.

Rick: I’ve heard of him Immanuel Swedenborg.

Richard: Yeah, but he, one of the books he wrote that he didn’t publish in his lifetime, probably he’d be in trouble if he had, I don’t know, it’s called Earths in the Universe, described his contacts, not only his contacts with people, beings from this solar system, but also his internal state of consciousness when he did. I actually included a whole section in it with the permission of the Swedenborg Society in my book, UFOs and the Extraterrestrial Message, and he was having those experiences, back in I think, is it 17th or 18th century Sweden. And again, it’s another example of the universality of these great truths. I think where Dr. King, I think even his critics would say, is different in a way from any other context I know of. Certainly, there is no one else who was doing this in the 50s, who got movements today which are still very active. They’re known about- George Adamski and plenty of others, but he also left an active program of cooperation which we are engaged in pursuing even today, I mean every day.

Rick: Incidentally, your talk of cosmic consciousness and all that, it’s well known in the yogic literature that samadhis are initially intermittent and momentary, and they have a bunch of different Sanskrit names for different types of Samadhi and…

Richard: Nerva Kalpa and et cetera. –

Rick: Yeah, right. And then eventually it gets to a point where it is continuous in the midst of activity, where you can be, riding a bicycle or playing tennis or whatever you’re doing. But that pure awareness, that silent field of unbounded awareness, is just your baseline of consciousness and then in addition to waking, dreaming, or even sleeping. It’s maintained continuously throughout deep sleep.

Richard: Yeah, well one of the things actually, that differentiates a little bit Dr. King and some of the teachings he received is, that one of the great hallmarks of what we’ve been told about great intelligences, is that they are willing to come down, in order to serve, from an elevated level if it’s necessary. Now, you don’t lose it, it’s still there. And what I found myself, because I’ve had two experiences now of cosmic consciousness, and when I had the first one, which, and I can stress entry level, I call it, a couple of years ago, it was absolutely incredible. And a lot of people said to me, well, incredible is a silly word. You can’t describe it at all, but I tried to. I put it down. You can see it on my website But a lot of you said to me, well. don’t you want to go back there, and don’t you want to Inhabit that world- because you can’t move around, you can’t walk around, you can’t do what we’re doing now while you’re actually in that particular state. You can be in a good state it can affect you will affect you forever, but you have to leave that state just to practice from a practical point of view. Now I said to these people, “Well, what I wanted to do actually was serve.” Now I did before, but I came out with a much greater sense of oneness. And so, oneness, the only logical thing to do is to serve all life. So that’s what I wanted to do. That’s what I’ve done. I had the opportunity, just came about this year, to enter it again. But my point is this, I found that when I entered it again, it was much fuller, particularly with love. And so, there was progress, and I do believe that the service I’d given in the interim, the experiences I’d gained in the interim, had added to the state when I re-entered it. It hadn’t gone, it was still there, but it was more complete.

Rick: Well, I think that’s very important. It has to be integrated. And an integrated state of realization is much more profound than…by integrated, I mean able to function in the world while you’re in that state, is much more profound than being able to have that same state in a state of immobility with your eyes closed. It’s the same state, but the one is sort of non-functional and the other is you’re able to interact and it becomes a living experience. There was a story of Vivekananda when he first had his big spiritual awakening. He went to Ramakrishna, his guru, and he said, “Oh God, I made it. This is so great. I want to just go off to the Himalayas now and sit there with my eyes closed.” And Ramakrishna said, “I am so disappointed in you. I expected you to do something with this.”

Richard: Yeah, well that’s the whole point, isn’t it? In all humility I say that, because I gather Ramakrishna actually didn’t really want to encourage him to enter it too much because he wanted to stay after that functional and active in the world. But that’s what it leaves you with. But as you point you made right at the beginning; you’ve got to go inwards. You can’t neglect the inner side because if you do, again, your wick will run low and you won’t have the fuel you need for the life of service you’re living.

Rick: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi used to call it 200% of life, 100% inner spiritual, 100% outer material, and being able to function in the world.

Richard: Actually, I was, sorry I’m interrupting you, sorry.

Rick: No, that’s okay, you continue, you go ahead.

Richard: All I was going to say is I was interested to find an Upanishad and I couldn’t tell you right now, which one it is, and I didn’t expect to find this in an Upanishad, is that, and I’m just paraphrasing it. “It’s very wrong to only live a life of service to others and neglect inner development.” These aren’t the words, but this is what it was saying. It’s even more wrong to only live a life of inward development and neglect the outer life. And that surprised me that that was even worse for a writer of the Upanishads, to neglect the outer life is even worse of the two.

Rick: I think it might be the Isha Upanishad and it says something like “Into blinding darkness go those who worship ignorance. Into even greater darkness go those who worship knowledge.” But the implication is who worship knowledge exclusively without, taking it into the world. There’s different ways of interpreting the whole thing and we can’t go into it all right here and I’m not qualified to, but that’s the verse, I think.

Richard: Yeah, possibly.

Rick: Yeah. Another question, this is from Benny in Atlanta, Georgia. Two questions. One, about Jesus and Buddha, if they were from another planet, does that imply they are karmically bound? I don’t know whether he means bound to each other or bound in and of themselves or what.

Richard: That’s a fascinating question Benny, because one thing that Dr. King always used to say, is that they are brothers. He didn’t clarify exactly in what way that manifests on Venus and the Buddha was actually the older brother, and he had two experiences. One was on this very hill I mentioned, a place called Holston Down in Devon where he actually saw Jesus.

Rick: Dr. King did.

Richard: Dr. King did and Jesus actually charged that mountain with power and thousands of people have been there and we go there every year and if anyone can ever get over here, they’re welcome to join us there and you can feel it. I’ve had skeptical camera crews from TV stations up there and they’ve been surprised by the energy they’ve felt. I do think, your inner experience is something you have to go by very much so. You can prove things to yourself in other words. So that’s one thing, so he saw Jesus in 1958. Years later, he was out of body, he traveled to a particular ceremony on Shambhala, which is above, well certainly was above the Gobi Desert, I don’t quite know where it is at this minute, but it’s a moving temple of light you might say, or satellite you might say, and Lord Buddha was there presiding. And so, he saw him then, and he said there’s a likeness between the two. So, it’s an interesting question that from Benny, I think there is certainly a link, and there’s a lot of links between their teachings, tremendous links. I think the Lord Buddha in particular, I know a lot of Buddhists like to say, “Well, he didn’t really talk about God.” But I can see why he was trying to get away from all these gods that had grown up in the Hindu religion as they grew up in ancient Greece and so on and the stories around them half Animal, half what have you. But it’s all about the you know finding God within, I think really, in the end. But there’s a tremendous link between them that they I would say they could well be bound together actually those two. I don’t know that, but certainly if we go by what Dr. King said they are brothers. They are known as to be brothers and their teachings as a similarity you can find almost line for line quotes. What I would say with Jesus is often seen as a master of love and people tend to forget how clever he was as well. He could handle a situation brilliantly, even a real tough political one if he chose to. If he chose not to, he’d allow himself to be killed if necessary. He’d do whatever it took. But if he wanted to get out of a corner, he could give a teaching and a clever answer at the same time, such as “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Brilliant answer -got him out of a corner as well. Lord Buddha is known for being brilliantly intelligent and clever, but another great master of love, I believe. It’s all about love. He was trying to get people, I believe, to elevate themselves internally through meditation and so on, because he knew that if they did, they would then be capable of radiating this love. That’s just what happens.

Rick: Yeah, okay, there was a second part to Benny’s question. I think that makes it more clear what he was getting at with the first one. He said, “okay, if they were karmically bound, doesn’t that contradict the very definition of being liberated beyond karma and beyond realms?” I guess what he’s saying is, if they had to come here, why would they need to if they were liberated beings?

Richard: Yeah, great, okay, got you. Okay, so I think I can help here, because I certainly, and Dr. King certainly, didn’t believe they had to come here at all. They volunteered to come here. They came here to perform missions. They had no karmic necessity to come here. It wasn’t even for their karma. It wasn’t even to provide them with essential karmic experience for them that they came here, which makes them different from us. We are bound by a cycle of karma and at the moment reincarnation, and the experiences we have are good for us even if they’re tough ones, even if they’re challenging ones, even if we have some kind of great mission to perform for the benefit of others, it’s also very good for our karma. But the Lord Buddha, who I believe is here right now, by the way, as well, not born through the womb of an earth woman, but he’s here

Rick: He’s here in an observable form or on some subtle level?

Richard: On a subtle level, but in an observable form there, if you’re lucky enough to be there with him. And he’s, I believe, actually on Shambhala now, which is like a very sacred place indeed and has a tremendous -and I think it’s interesting he’s here in this age of service by the way, because it does come back to a point we’ve been Stressing…. which you’ve still got to keep the inner side active as well, you’ve still got to go within as well which is what he’s probably known for. I’m sure there are other reasons too but I to come to Benny’s point, no they aren’t karmically bound in that sense at all they haven’t come here because they have essential lessons to learn. They’ve come, they’ve gone beyond that. They’re here to help us. They will have experiences and very unpleasant ones. It’s particularly Jesus who had to die, chose to die. He could easily have avoided it. I think that’s pretty clear. If you really look at the gospels, he kind of brought it about virtually. Clearly he wasn’t a famous person. Otherwise he wouldn’t have needed Judas to identify him with a kiss. He wasn’t someone they all knew. He was someone who wanted to be identified. He chose to do it and he did it to take karma. Not because of his karma and that’s what they got wrong in the church. They call it the forgiveness of sins. But it was actually he was taking karma. He’s not the only master to do that. You mentioned Ramakrishna and he was quite openly He said he had throat cancer didn’t he at the end and he said he took that on to bear karma for his disciples and for the world

Rick: Yeah, but Ramana Maharshi had some form of cancer too.

Richard: He did. I

Rick: t was very painful.

Richard: Yeah, he was a wonderful, wonderful person.

Rick: Yeah, there was a story I think was about Sri Ramakrishna, which is that he was, apparently suffering a lot as it was, , throat cancer is a very painful thing. And people were moaning and bemoaning the suffering that he had to be going through and somebody went to him and said, “Sir, everyone says you’re suffering but I see that you’re in bliss” and Ramakrishna said, “Aha the rascal has found me out.”

Richard: Well, actually I would say I’ll tell a strange thing because Dr King to took on cancer and suffered terribly at the end of his life. And I was one of those people who was, I would say privileged, but it was that what that’s not the point. I was there when I was there, and others were there much more than I was giving him healing. But I did always notice, because when someone is sick like that – I’ve had cancer by the way in the past, that there’s a Vibration around that isn’t very nice from the illness which you can tune into but always when I was in the presence of Dr. King even right at the end and giving him healing, it was like being in a temple. The vibration was not one of a sick person, but he did have the ailment and he took it on himself undoubtedly in that case. Another story about Ramakrishna. I don’t know if you know this- this is what I love to talk about discipleship. Some of his followers were a bit scared, but they didn’t understand his illness, and so, they weren’t really getting very close to him, and he had a spittoon and he was spitting things out as he lay in in bed and Vivekananda walked in and he went right up in front of the other students, the other disciples and he started eating out of the bowl of spittoon and eating the food, because he could see their fear of the illness they thought they might catch something, and he said “Now that’s what you need to do- get right in there, get stuck in and help your master.”

Rick: interesting. So, people listen to this interview, and they may get intrigued with everything you’re saying and want to find out more about the Aetherius Society. And this has been a pretty far-out conversation, so maybe they won’t have trouble with anything they find if they start investigating the Aetherius Society. But I looked it up on YouTube and I saw this situation in New Zealand where people were having a ceremony, and they were dressed in red robes and they were calling themselves bishops or something like that and they were zapping a box with energy with one hand while holding their other hand in a mudra and speaking in this sort of exaggerated theatrical voice and it was like it made me squirm a little bit like “Oh god this is a little bit of a weird scene”. So do you want to say something to people who are going to check it out and to perhaps …

Richard: Yeah, thanks for that… what I would say is that we have bishops, I’m one. So yes, Dr. King decided to use as part of our functionality the traditional ecclesiastical structure.

Rick: Do you consider it a religion?

Richard: We are religious. We’re not a one and only way. I would actually, I mean people use that word differently. Yes, I would. Yes, I’d say we’re certainly a religion.

Rick: Are you like registered as one?

Richard: Yes, we have a registered church. Our buildings in the UK are registered. You don’t register as religion. In America, we’re registered as a religious non-profit organization and scientific, I think, too, in the full registration. So yes, and I think in Ghana and possibly Nigeria, we’re registered as a church. I’m not sure about all the different countries. So, there’s a couple of things. You mentioned the box. Can we come back to the box in a minute? We’re just dealing with the question of religion. We are religious, but Dr. King used the structure of the ecclesiastical structure partly because, not only because, but partly because of the me stress this, that in terms of Orthodox Christianity, we would definitely be regarded as heretical.

Rick: Oh, of course.

Richard: Although we’re using some of these systems. His attitude, by the way, was if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. He didn’t go out of his way to invent new things if he didn’t have to. He’d rather use them in the way that they should correctly be used. With the box, what you call a box, is actually a battery, and we believe this is a radionic battery.

Rick: It has crystals in it or something, right?

Richard: It has crystals and gold, and so why they’re holding their hand up is to store psychic energy. This is something that is known, and we run crystal workshops here. You can prove this to yourself. Crystals have the capability of storing energy, and he built other equipment which can release it. Now the purpose of that is to store energy over a period of time when a crisis strikes, or when we have the opportunity to cooperate with extraterrestrials with the release of the energy, they’ve then got hundreds of hours of energy to play with when they need it. Whereas if you didn’t store it, it’d be very hard, say, to get a thousand people out immediately, an earthquake strikes somewhere. That makes sense. So it’s a storage device, and then coming to your other, perhaps, deal with all your points there.

Rick: Before you get off the box, and as I understand it, the box in New Zealand was going to transmit the energy to a box in Los Angeles somehow.

Richard: It was then, yeah. A bigger box. And it’s going to get stored there. You can make fun of it if you like.

Rick: Well, it’s a little bit of a stretch, but I would like to understand the mechanics of it.

Richard: Electricity was a stretch. Lots of things are a stretch, when they first get announced. It’s radionically linked, it’s transmitted through, again, the power of crystals and the assistance of extraterrestrials and then it’s stored. In those days it was stored in Los Angeles. Now actually in New Zealand, they have their own battery, their own equipment, they can release it from New Zealand. So that’s no longer happening, but it can happen. Many tests have been conducted into this. That’s the principle behind it. Whether people accept it or not, that’s the idea of it, to store energy so that you can use it when you need it most to its greatest possible effect. In terms of what you call the sort of over thing that made you squirm with the way people were praying, the idea isn’t to be dramatic at all or theatrical at all. The idea is purely to generate as much energy as you can. And some people do it in different ways and I haven’t seen that particular clip you’re talking about. That sounded very theatrical, but some people’s pray very softly it varies, But as long as the intensity is there, and the sincerity is there, it’s got to be sincere. It’s got to be real. Then that all that matters is the power that is generated by the prayer

Rick: Yeah, I think the intention goes a long way regardless of how you express it. If it’s sincere, if it’s ardent, if it’s heartfelt Then you know, that’s what really counts

Richard: yeah, I think you know Dr. King reacted a lot because he was raised as I was in the Church of England and I was Aa that time and a lot of churches and maybe still today, you get a lot of lip service. You get a lot of people saying a prayer which they say every week, as though they were reading a shopping list.

Rick: Yeah.

Richard: And it doesn’t really matter as I stress how it sounds at all, whether it’s dramatic or whether it’s almost silent. This doesn’t matter. What matters is that you are thinking about it, you’re putting your energy into it, and you mean it.

Rick: Yeah.

Richard: And that’s what they were probably trying to do. I’m sure they were trying to do in the clip in New Zealand that you saw.

Rick: Yeah. One principle that might be relevant is that very often the subtle is more powerful than the gross. The atomic is more powerful than the molecular and the molecular is more powerful than the just gross physical and So, a lot of Hoopla is not necessarily as efficacious as

Richard: may not be.

Rick: Yeah, but again people just function on whatever level they’re functioning.

Richard: The mudra you mentioned is actually a collection because behind that person, people were doing mantra I see so the purpose of the mudra isn’t to be showy Right. It has an exact purpose which is to be a receiver for the energy that’s being radiated through that one person who’s got their hand against what you call a box.

Rick: I see because not everybody could be at the battery at one time. Yeah. Yeah, okay Well, I’m not making fun of you.

Richard: That’s okay.

Rick: I’m not doing it. I’ve encountered so many things in my own experience, with the TM movement, which to the outside observer would appear totally weird. And there’s so many different groups in the world that it’s easy to laugh at. But I think that, like I said a minute ago, I think the intention is what counts. And all these efforts have their value and contribute to the greater good. And if people are sincere and ardent, well, again, to revert to the Gita, Krishna says in the Gita something about how anyone who offers any kind of devotion in any way, anywhere, I accept that and I appreciate it.

Misconceptions and Misunderstandings

Richard: Well, I will say, I’ve been to New Zealand and I’ll let me say a word for them. They’re wonderful people.

Rick: Oh, I love New Zealand.

Richard: Yeah, New Zealand as a whole, but in our branch down there, as I say down there, they are very sincere, extremely dedicated, good people. So however,…

Rick: I wasn’t picking on you or on New Zealand. They actually interviewed some of the people afterwards who have been doing the thing with the battery and they seemed like very clear coherent nice people So, yeah, actually I brought this whole thing up just to give you an opportunity to explain some of this.

Richard: Yeah. Thank you for that. The other thing they’ll throw out, they’ll throw these things out like one word is easy to throw on the internet is cult You’re a religious group and then they throw out the word cult and immediately you’re sort of put in the company of lots of other organizations that have nefarious methodology and all sorts of bad behavior. And of course, we are not. We are not a cult, but it’s just a very lightweight, easy thing for people who want to dismiss something unusual. But we get used to that and we just push on. And Dr. King, I will say, can you imagine? I mean the claims he was making in the 50s in England, very conservative period of time in a very conservative country at that time, were just outrageous…it didn’t stop him, and he and he stuck to it and now a lot of what he said then is being taken very seriously.

Can you imagine? I mean the claims he was making in the 50s in England, very conservative period of time in a very conservative country at that time, were just outrageous…it didn’t stop him.

Rick: Yeah, cult is not necessarily a pejorative term. It just means a group of people who share a common belief system or something. Like a cult movie. Jesus had a cult going.

Richard: He did, so did Buddha.

Rick: Yeah, exactly.

Richard: So did Ramakrishna.

Rick: And they all seem weird probably to outside observers.

Richard: just been sort of taken because of there’s some rather very questionable organizations out there unfortunately.

Rick: Yeah, and they all give and so some of them give the rest a bad name. When they don’t town happened for instance that that sent huge repercussions throughout the world

Richard: Yeah, and then people who are like so secular and secular mentality who are anti religion, they’ll use that against all religious people if you let them.

Rick: Yeah, in fact, I’ll tell you a funny story. So after Jonestown happened, Maharishi sent a group of scientists to Gyana to propose that they establish a kind of a group of meditators all practicing together in Gyana. And the guy said, “Are you crazy? Do you realize what just happened here?” And it was sort of like, I think he was kind of messing with them by sending that group there.

Richard: Yeah.

Rick: Or maybe messing with the guys in the group who had to do it.

Richard: Right. Yeah.

Rick: Anyway, so anyway keep up the good work

Richard: And thank you so much Rick. It’s been fun talking to you.

Rick: And you too,

Richard: I really appreciate it. Yeah, and thanks to those who’ve been listening or watching, and I’ll be interviewing another Lawrence for my next one, a guy named Lawrence Pintak who’s a journalist and he’s written a book about spiritual people. I won’t get into the details right now but That’ll be the next one and we have a new website if you haven’t visited it, it’s been up for a few months now, but it’s newly designed and a lot prettier than the old one and If you’ve never visited our website I encourage you to go there and check out the different menu options because there’s some things there which I think you’ll find interesting and Useful.

Richard: Can I invite people Rick also to visit our website, which is the society’s website? which is a aetherius.org and Not only will you see information there and you can check it out for yourself but you can also join in there if you want to online with these services. I mentioned which are for world peace for healing multiple countries joining together online and setting energy out for the betterment of all.

Rick: that’s great. I’m sure it is having an effect and I’ll be setting up a page for this interview and I’ll have links to your website and to You have your own?

Richard: I do. If people want to contact me they can.

Rick: yeah, I’ll put links to all that stuff.

Richard: Thank you very much

Rick: And to the most important books that you want me to? okay

Richard: That’s great. Rick. Thank you.

Rick: Okay.

Richard: Very nice to meet you. Good luck with all your work.

Rick: Yeah, if I ever get to the UK

Richard: Come and see us. Climb a mountain together or something. I’ll be beautiful. We’d love to see you here.

Rick: Yeah, yeah. All right. Are you based in London?

Richard: Yeah, we’re in London. Yeah. So, we’re not far from Heathrow When if you cut flying in, we’re in the West London in Fulham actually.

Rick: If I miss my connection I’ll go and crash at your place. All right, thanks everybody

Richard: You take care

Rick: Take care.