Rick: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually awakening people. I’ve done over 500 of them now and if this is new to you and you’d like to check out previous ones, please go to www.BatGap.com B-A-T-G-A-P and look under the past interviews menu where you’ll see all the previous ones archived in several different ways. And also, while you’re there, check around the other menus on the site and you’ll find some useful things. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers, so if you appreciate it and would like to support it in any amount, there’s a PayPal button on every page of the site. Since about 1970, I’ve been aware that there’s significant evidence that extraterrestrial and non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity, at least that’s been my feeling. I’ve even had a couple of experiences myself. It hasn’t been a central focus for me, but I’ve always found it interesting and have felt that this interaction is somehow involved in the global spiritual awakening, which seems to be taking place. I’ve wanted to cover this topic on BatGap, but most of the people who talk about it are psychics and channelers or are primarily interested in the debate over whether we’re being visited, or they focus on conspiracy theories about government cover-ups and things like that, and I didn’t want to get into all that. So, I asked my friend Alex Siqueiros of Skeptico.com who he would recommend that I interview on this topic that could be kind of scientific and objective about it, and he recommended today’s guest, Rey Hernandez. So, here he is. Welcome, Rey.
Rey: Thank you very much, Rick.
Rick: Yeah, I’ll read your bio here. “Rey graduated with honors from Rutgers College, was a master’s candidate at Cornell University, and was a PhD candidate at the University of California at Berkeley, where he was the recipient of a National Science Foundation PhD fellowship. He previously was a professor for six years at the New School for Social Research and at the City University of New York, and he is currently an attorney with the U.S. Department of Treasury in Miami, Florida. Rey is the executive director of the Consciousness and Contact Research Institute, CCRI, a non-profit academic research institute comprised of 15 PhD academics and medical doctors whose mission it is to explore the relationship between consciousness, cosmology, and contact with non-human intelligence. Rey was previously one of the co-founders of the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free Foundation, a non-profit academic research institute comprised of 12 PhD academics and lay researchers who recently completed a five-year comprehensive worldwide academic research study on UFO contact experiencers. The late Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon and the founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and Dr. Rudy Schild, Emeritus Professor of astrophysics at Harvard University, were two of that organization’s co-founders. The study I just referred to resulted in the creation of an 820-page book entitled “Beyond UFOs – The Science of Consciousness and Contact with Non-Human Intelligence, Volume 1.” Rey is one of its three co-authors. He has also published in several peer-reviewed academic journals, including the Journal of Consciousness Studies and the Journal of the Society for Scientific Exploration. Rey’s new projects are a three-volume book and a full feature science documentary titled “A Greater Reality – The New Paradigm of Consciousness, the Paranormal, and the Contact Modalities.” And the reason I chuckled a little bit while I was reading that is I am aware that Rey works a full-time job as an attorney, and somehow I suppose has been given superpowers by the aliens because he manages to accomplish all this stuff on top of his full-time job. So how do you do that, Rey?
Rey: Well, I have a workload review on September the 23rd, and basically I’m going to shut down all of my extracurricular activities and just focusing on preparing for that workload review. But no, it’s been very difficult, very strenuous. I don’t sleep much. This is my full-time hobby. We’re not paid for this. We’re all volunteers, and you’re dealing with very high-level academics at the highest level of academia to try to do this work. So it’s been extremely difficult.
Rick: Yeah, well, I hope you keep an eye on your health, and don’t overdo it.
Rey: Well, I’ve gained 40 pounds since my initial experience in 2012, so I’m not taking care of my health.
Rick: I want to ask you about your initial experience in just a second since you just alluded to it, but first let me ask you, how did Edgar Mitchell get interested in all this? Did he have some kind of contact experience as an astronaut?
Rey: Yes, Edgar Mitchell, even before he went onto the Moon, he conducted a probability experiment, consciousness probability experiment, out in space where he brought a deck of cards that J.B. Ryan out of the Princeton peer-reviewed lab used to engage the psi phenomenon and ESP. And so he brought that card out, and he also left out in space notations for five different people here on Earth. They didn’t even know each other. So what he did is he told people at this particular time, this particular hour, I’m going to pull out my cards and I’m going to note them down of what came out. And then he’s going to be projecting in his mind after he pulled out each card. So he projected his thoughts out to the universe of what was shown. And I forgot exactly how many cards they were, but then he compared it when he returned back to Earth. And it was shown that it was statistically significant that ESP occurred coming back from the Moon, not just on Earth, but even at great distances. So he was always interested in these things. And then he had a Samadhi experience in space that many of the mystical meditators have, near-death experiencers have, and also people that have had very direct UFO contact with non-human intelligence have. And that is where for an instant, you’re shown universal knowledge. But then almost immediately it gets taken away. And for him, it was that we’re all interconnected, that there’s no separation, even the smallest molecule in the universe connected to that smallest atom and molecule. And there was a very, very profound experience for him. And then upon when he returned, he wanted to find out what the hell was that? What was that about? And then he began to do research. And it was a professor of religion that told him what you had was a Samadhi experience. And many of the yogis and folks in the Indian mystical tradition have had that. And then he immediately, within a year later, started the Institute for Noetic Sciences in 1972, which is now known as the world’s leading academic research institute on the psi phenomena.
Rick: Yeah, good. Yeah, I’ve had Dean Radin on the show, he’s the chief scientist there, and I’ll be having Cassandra Vieten soon, she’s also one of the heads of that organization. And so, how about you? You were just a sort of ordinary guy, I’ve heard you describe yourself as having been a materialist, atheist, nihilist kind of guy, and all of a sudden you had this amazing experience which changed your life. Let’s hear about that.
Rey: Okay, I’ll try to be as brief as I can. Before March 4th of 2012, I was an over-educated materialist rationalist, an atheist. And then I had an experience that night, Saturday night, where our dog became, the day before, I think it was Saturday, I don’t know if it was the third or the fourth, where our dog became totally paralyzed, our 15-year-old dog, who previously to her paralysis had severe arthritis, she couldn’t run, she couldn’t jump. We were keeping her alive with heavy medications, she was taking Viagra for her heart, et cetera. And then she became totally paralyzed. So I called our vet, and he said, “From what you’re telling me, Rey, it seems like she had a stroke, a cerebral hemorrhage, and I’ll open up my office tomorrow to put her to sleep.” And so, my wife had just come from a three-day retreat at her church, which is a pray retreat. All they did for three straight days is just pray, pray, pray. So she came home, and she was fully energized from praying. And once I told her, she became very depressed, but then immediately began to pray. She was raised in Mexico, raised in the Catholic faith, having to go to church every Sunday, and then once a week to the ministry where they basically pray most of the time. So she was used to this. So to me, it was like, “Do all the praying you want. Tomorrow, she’s going to go to sleep. Deal with it.” And then the very next day at six in the morning, the dog woke us up because the only thing she could do was bark. So we checked her out, and she was still totally paralyzed. So I went back to bed. My wife carried her down the stairs because it’s a small Jack Russell Terrier, weighed 20 pounds or less. So she carried her down the stairs, and there, this is my wife is telling me this information afterwards, appeared to her a small object. It looks like an upside-down U, sort of metallic, was the structure of it, about a foot wide, a foot and a half in height, but it was phasing in and out of reality. And then she saw that, she immediately said, “My angels came,” and she began to pray. And then this green light shot out and began to scan her. And she was calling me, not because she was scared, but she wanted me to see her angel because she was totally convinced that this was angelic. And so this was Sunday morning at six o’clock, and I was ignoring her, and I was like, “What the hell is she bothering me for?” And so she eventually went upstairs. She hauled me out of bed. “I got to see this. I got to see this. What is it? What is it?” She wouldn’t tell me. So then we both went down the stairs. And then for your listeners, brace yourself, because what I’m going to tell you is my first of many experiences of high strangeness. She was then, stepped into the living room, and I was like on the bottom rung of our stair steps, and she disappeared right in front of me and the dog. And then this is immediately, this is back-to-back. I could not see my peripheral vision. I could only see like a tunnel. If you put your hand right in front of you and you look, all around you is all dark, and the only thing you could see is what is in that tunnel. And that was at the corner of our living room. And there I saw what I now describe as an energy being, and I’ll describe it for you and your listeners. It was roughly two and a half feet wide by a foot in height. It was shaped sort of like a rectangle, but it didn’t have any hard edges because of pure energy. It had multiple colors. Similar, I guess, if you had like these colors that you squeeze from a painter’s tube into a bathtub, and you’re squeezing many, many different colors, and then you get a stick and you’re waving it, and it was doing that type of a wave, like a mirage type of waving, semi-transparent. And then this object immediately got into my consciousness. I didn’t care that my wife had disappeared, the dog had disappeared. I didn’t care that I was watching this object. I then looked at it, and I was like glaring at it. Then I waved my hand at it, and I said, “Ah, bullshit. This is what you got me up for, for this crap.” And then I waved my hand at it again, then I turned around, and I walked up the stairs, and I went to bed. I put my hands on my chest, and I was immediately put to sleep. Now, 45 minutes later, when I woke up, I was now fully conscious. And I was like, “What the… You know what?”
Rick: What was that?
Rey: And I ran down the stairs, and then my wife was in the middle of the living room saying, “Hallelujah, hallelujah, the angels cured her, the angels cured her.” And she was looking up, talking to God. And the dog was running around the whole living room like a little puppy. She was still the same size, the same age as before, but with the energy and the flexibility of a teenager. And so, in my head, you could imagine, it was like an atom bomb exploded in your head. And it was like a few seconds of total bewilderment, where I didn’t even say anything. I’m just trying to comprehend what’s going on. So I told my wife, I said, “Where were you? Where did you go?” And she goes, “I didn’t go anywhere. What are you talking about?” I said, “Well, you just disappeared in front of me and the dog.” And she said, “I didn’t disappear in front of you.” And then she starts to tell me what she saw. Her angels came, and then she began to describe it. And then I told her, “I didn’t see what you saw. What I saw was something different than I, And then both of us drew what we saw, and it was two totally different things. And it wasn’t until six months later that, after we had our third major experience, that I had called this organization called MUFON, which investigates UFO cases, because I didn’t know what the hell was going on. I was on the internet. Initially, it was paranormal, because I thought it was paranormal-related. But she had also said in Spanish that it looked like a little craft, and insisting that there were little people inside. And so I said, “But wait a second. This can’t be UFOs, because UFOs are very large, and they’re outside.” So it was initially paranormal with a little bit of UFO stuff on the internet. And I quickly realized it was all rubbish that was on the internet. So anyway, after our third major experience, I called this organization, and they sent a retired schoolteacher, and her husband was a retired scientist from the hurricane center. I think it’s called OSHA, is the agency that deals with atmospheric conditions.
Rick: Yeah, yeah. Or NOAA, maybe? National—
Rey: NOAA, yeah. I forgot the formal name, but he worked for the hurricane center here in Miami. So he was an atmospheric scientist.
Rick: Which is pretty busy at the moment, because there’s a big hurricane right off the coast.
Rey: Correct. Now, as we speak right now, it’s right off the coast.
Rick: Hurricane Dorian.
Rey: And so anyway, they both were here, and she had been researching UFOs and people that have had close contact experiences for many, many years. And she was the one that told me, “Rey, what your wife had is called missing time.” I had no idea what that was, and she then went to explain it. And I later subsequently found out, including our research study, that it’s a very, very common phenomenon. My wife, basically, to her, she had gone down the stairs. She looked down, the dog was running around, and she started celebrating, okay? Even though she was gone. And we knew it was 45 minutes because I looked at the time that she had come up to pull me out of bed, which is six o’clock. And then the time we had gotten downstairs was like 6.50 or so. And then five minutes in terms of the initial discussions. So it was like 45 minutes, more or less. And then, so after that, I was basically on the internet as much as I could, trying to find out what the hell is this all about? Because I was totally uneducated about these things. And then…
Rick: And I just should interject here that you told me before we started this recording that your dog lived in perfectly good health for nearly another year.
Rey: Correct.
Rick: Puppy-like, even though prior to this event, it had had all the arthritis and everything that you had mentioned.
Rey: Correct, correct. It lived for about a, nearly another year. And so the next sequence of events was that a month and a half later, our dog woke my wife up at 3.30 in the morning, that magical witching hour. And so my wife then said, okay, she wants to go to the bathroom. So she went downstairs, obviously not carrying the dog because this dog was still very active. She opened the back door, but the dog did not want to go in the back door. She was jumping on the front door. And the dog never did that unless we had a chain, that we were going out for a walk or we were going to go to the car. And so she was jumping on the front door. So my wife opened the door, the dog ran out. And so my wife walked down three or four steps, which is to our front door. And then she heard this very, very loud noise for about a minute. And I said, how loud was it? She said, it was like a 747 jet was right above her. I said, well, shouldn’t it have woken up the neighborhood? Did you see any lights? She says, no, I didn’t see any lights. And then she said immediately, it stopped after about a minute. Then she looked up and it was a huge, gigantic UFO. It was like the Goodyear blimp. And at the edges of it, at the edges of the blimp, it had colored lights. And the way she described it to me initially was, oh, my angels came and visited me last night. They came in a beautiful angelic craft and had stained glass windows, just like the stained glass windows of our church. Oh, my angels, that type of thing. And so when I got her to describe it and to draw it out, I said, what you saw was a UFO. These weren’t angels. She goes, oh, you wouldn’t understand. You’re an atheist. And so that’s when I knew that this was related to UFOs, right? And so then it was like eight hours a day on the internet. I would order all these UFO books just trying to understand what the hell is this that we’re interacting with. And then she then went to Mexico about a month and a half later. And she spent a month there to stay with her family. And she would call her angels repeatedly and repeatedly what appeared, a huge UFO, twice seen by her family members. One time, a UFO interfered with airport traffic in Veracruz Airport. And my wife had called to see her angel. The UFO never appeared. But in the 11 o’clock news, her sister yelled at her, said, Dulce, Dulce, come here. The 11 o’clock news was a huge UFO that interrupted airport traffic for two hours. And then it was in the newspaper the very next day. And then on YouTube, there were many YouTube videos of that night of the YouTube. But my wife didn’t tell anybody that she was the one that called it down. And then the next day, she hooked up with a cousin of hers at a baptism, because that was one of the reasons why she went down there. And her cousin had told her that she had interacted with many UFOs and the actual entities physically, mainly the little short ones, and that telepathic communications and even human-looking entities. So then my wife shared her experiences with her. And so, and let me then fast forward now about when she arrived home. This was in mid-August. I then playfully called down a UFO. And I started off just killing time, because I was waiting for a friend of mine to give me his parking ticket so I could do a motion to consolidate. So it was like the last thing on my mind. He wasn’t there. I’m waiting and waiting. And I remember seeing a UFO video of this man named Prophet Yahweh, who would speak in Hebrew. And a little tiny UFO would appear, and he would capture it on his video. And this is in daytime, in the middle of the day. And he had numerous videos of daytime videos on a website that he had started. And the one that captured me was an NBC camera crew that were mocking him. “Oh, and now we’re going out to the field to report a so-and-so. And this man claims that he could call a UFO.” And after he called it down, and they zoomed in on it, and you could see this little black speck moving about, they immediately said, “Oh, no, back to the office, back to the desk, back to the…” It was like totally dismissing it. They didn’t want to go near that. And so I said, “Okay, let me just kill some time while I’m waiting for my friend.” So this was at night, 10 o’clock in the evening. And after like 10 minutes of me trying, I became more sincere as I got into it. In the beginning it was killing time, but by the end, it was sort of like a mantra, like a meditation to it. I was very, very sincere. And then all of a sudden, I’m like, “What a freaking jerk. Here I am calling a UFO. I’m going insane. I need to stop this thing. Here I am reading all these books. I’m spending all my time on the internet. I need to get rid of this stuff because I’m going crazy.” And then I look up…
Rick: Sounds like Richard Dreyfuss about halfway through that movie.
Rey: Well, that’s exactly… Well, that’s what happened to me later on. That’s another experience. That dealt with near-death experiences. And that’s how they gave me spirituality. But basically, what had happened was as soon as I thought that, I looked up and right on top of my next-door neighbor’s house, next-door neighbor, five feet from his roof, was a UAP, an unidentified aerial phenomenon. It wasn’t fully materialized. If you can imagine sort of like a small football stadium, maybe like a small college or a very large high school football stadium, that was literally right on top of my next-door neighbor’s house.
Rick: Let me interject a question here, which probably some people are wondering, and that is, wouldn’t something like that have been picked up on radar by the military and by the, air traffic control and all that stuff? Or is it sort of on a subtler level that you were able to see, but that wouldn’t be detectable by those instruments?
Rey: Okay, let me describe what I, not only what I saw, but my daughter and three other friends.
Rick: Okay.
Rey: Okay? It was, if you can imagine what I’m depicting, if you could imagine streaks of light, white streaks of light, that would either do a 90 or a 180 and then continue after it broke up for a certain distance, and multiply that by hundreds of white streaks of light that would form the whole shell of this object. So you’re seeing the outsides of it, okay? And then inside was all this white plasma energy swirling around. You could see the stars, excuse me, the clouds, because it was a totally cloudy night. You couldn’t see any stars, okay? So you could see the clouds behind it, so it was transparent.
Rick: Translucent, yeah.
Rey: Translucent, yeah. And so, but it was huge. It was like 100 meters tall. It went back like head, and it was my daughter’s voice. And the voice said, “Daddy, you and mommy have seen UFOs. Next time you guys see a UFO, you call me, all right, Daddy? Don’t forget.” Okay? My daughter never said that, but that was what was in my mind, in my consciousness. And in my head, in my consciousness, I was thinking, “My daughter needs to see this. My daughter needs to see this.” Now, my daughter had just turned 10 years old. Her birthday was July 31st. So this was literally two weeks after she had turned 10 years old. What rational father would want to bring his daughter outside to witness this when you’re totally clueless as to what the hell’s going on, okay? But no, but in my mind, my daughter needs to see this because she told me she wanted to see it, right? So I then run to the window. I’m yelling at her. She opens up the window. Mind you, this is like 10 o’clock at night, okay? So it was, I think it was a weekend. I’m not sure because she was still up. And so, “What is it, Daddy?” I said, “Sweetheart, run outside. There’s a UFO. There’s a UFO outside. Run.” So she then, she knew about what my wife had seen, the experience that we had, because we were telling friends over the telephone, when friends would come over. So she heard all these stories. So now she runs outside and she’s watching this. She says, “Daddy, what is that?” And I said, “Sweetheart, it’s a UFO, but it’s in hiding. It doesn’t want to be caught by the military radar and by the airports that we have close by. So that’s why it’s not fully materialized. That’s why it’s appearing that way.” And she goes, “Oh, thank you, Rey. Thank you, Daddy. Thank you, Daddy.” And so then we were watching it for like 15 minutes. And what it was, that we weren’t scared at all. It was like you’re watching the 4th of July fireworks. You’re just like with your tongue hanging out, that type of thing. And then my friend comes, and he comes with his wife and their 17-year-old daughter, okay? They leave the car right in the middle of the large cul-de-sac that we live in, and they run to us. And both of them like, “Rey, what the hell is that? What the hell is that?” I said, “You know damn well what it is, okay? This is all in Spanish.” And they said, “No, impossible. It can’t be. It can’t be.” So then they tried to explain it away, okay? And they were coming up with one crazy explanation after another. And then I didn’t tell them that I called it down, because that was too much sensory overload for them. And so after their fourth or fifth explanation, which just became more ludicrous, I started laughing out loud. And in my head, I communicated with these entities. And this is literally what I said. I said, “You better come up with some better shit than this, because my friends don’t believe you, okay?” And then that’s verbatim what I said. And it wasn’t by my mouth. It was just in my mind. I thought this, right? And so immediately, what we were watching, what I described to you, totally stopped, disappeared, and immediately replaced by thousands, I would say thousands of stars that were like 10 times the size of Venus.
Rick: And it was a cloudy night, so yeah.
Rey: Totally cloudy night.
Rick: Right.
Rey: No, but these are large. So this was like, if you get the star of Venus and multiply by 10 or 20, that would give you an idea of how large these were. Now, each of these stars were blinking on and off, on and off like this, okay, flickering. And it occupied the whole inside of this object, okay? But yet, it was still semi-transparent, because you could still see the clouds behind it, but these stars were blinking inside of all of this. And then also by certain areas, certain of these stars would like power up, get big, very, very large, like the size of the moon, and then get very, very small. And it would be doing that, like three or four stars in sections. Then we’re finished with this section, then it would do that section, then it would do that other section. And then everybody, my friends stopped trying to explain it away, because they knew that this was not an earthbound experience. And so, and all of us were just with our tongues hanging out. The neighbor under that house, they were in the window looking at us. Now, the natural thing to do would be to go to them and say, “Look, Pablo, go outside. Look at what the hell’s on top of your house.” Or Pablo and his wife to come outside to us and say, “Why is my neighbor and his daughter and three strangers looking right above my roof and just staring nonstop? Is my house on fire?” That never took place. Okay, remember I told you about getting into your mind, controlling your mind? Okay. All of a sudden, my friends told me, “Oh, we got to leave, Rey. We got businesses to run. We’re very, very busy. Oh, don’t worry about that motion to consolidate. I’ll prepare it tonight or tomorrow and I’ll send it to you with the instructions of what you need to do.” Okay. And I didn’t even, like now it’s like, “What are you freaking crazy, man? It’s like you’re leaving now in the middle of this?” But no, that didn’t even enter your mind. Now, all of us had cell phones, except my 10-year-old. Okay. The 17-year-old had her iPhone in her hand or whatever cell phone she had. I remember she had a nice, large size phone. And you think anyone took a video of this or a picture of it? This thing was, I could have gotten a rock and hit it. That’s how close this thing was. Okay. Now, in hindsight, it was like, “My goodness, if we would have taken a video of this or a picture of it, we would have been on the cover of Time Magazine for 12 months straight.” We would have been on CNN, MSNBC, whatever, for the next 10 years. But no, no, because these things, your mind is not allowed to go there. Okay. And then the way they got me to leave was they put into my consciousness that I was being attacked by hundreds of mosquitoes. So I was wearing shorts, a short-sleeved shirt, and I was like slapping my legs, slapping my arms. And for like a minute, I couldn’t take anymore. So I grabbed my daughter’s hand and I said, “Sweetheart, we got to go inside. These mosquitoes are killing me.” So we go inside. The door was wide open the whole time. My wife never went outside. The dog never went outside because the dog, when she hears somebody, she’s always barking at the door and trying to chase the other person down. So that was very, very strange. So I go inside. I’m telling my wife about what happened. She goes, “Oh, how nice.” Like she was just coming out of a trance. And then I told her we had to go inside because these mosquitoes were killing me. And then my daughter goes to me, “Daddy, there were no mosquitoes outside.” And as soon as she said that, it was like the amazing Kreskin. I don’t know if you remember him, Whether you’re old enough? Okay. The magician, he would hypnotize people and they would be walking like ducks on the auditorium. I remember 1975, I was a freshman at Rutgers College and he had all these, some of the people that I knew. and other people walking like ducks on stage. And as soon as like he snapped his finger, because he had given them an instruction, all of a sudden they woke up. So as soon as my daughter said, “Daddy, there were no mosquitoes outside.” It was like, the finger was snapped, the hypnotist, the finger was snapped. I woke up and I was like, “Holy shit, what the hell just happened?” So I ran downstairs. I grabbed my professional video camera, my professional camera. I ran outside, nothing outside. And that’s when I figured out for the first time, that was why I acted that way in my living room. Because for six months after that experience, I was like, “Why did I act that way? I’m a rational person, I’m an intelligent person. Why did I totally dismiss this? Why didn’t I think about my wife, care about her?” It was like I was like a madman. I couldn’t figure it out. And it was then that I figured out, “Oh my God, whatever this intelligence is, it gets into your consciousness, is able to extract your thoughts and is able to put thoughts into your mind.” I said, “My goodness.” And then it was after that experience that it began two and a half years of nonstop paranormal experiences. And one of those was how Free was organized in three days with Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Rudy Schild, who was an Emeritus Professor of astrophysics at Harvard, and Mary Rodwell, who is probably the most important researcher of UFO contactees in the world. How all of three of them were put in my arena within three days, and Free was formed at the home of Edgar Mitchell. After I had this out-of-body experience while I was driving my car, where I was shown the contact modalities. So, it was all orchestrated, and you can get Rudy Schild on your show, he’ll be a wonderful guest. He’s an 80-year-old Emeritus Professor of astrophysics at Harvard for 45 years, he was a professor there, and he’s deeply into the topics of consciousness and contact. Or Mary Rodwell, who has worked with experts, and they will tell you what I just told you is correct.
Rick: Great. I imagine that people listening to this, either live or later on, there’ll be a whole range naturally of people who think that this is just fantasy thinking, imagination, to those who take it very literally and feel that yeah, this stuff is happening and we’ve known about it for a long time. So we’ll kind of swing back and forth on that spectrum perhaps and offer some stuff that might convince the more skeptical people, but we also want to get deeply into some of the more philosophical or spiritual implications of all this without eating up all our time just asking the question of whether it’s real or not. So, we’ll do that. We’ll do both. A couple nice quotes here, I’ll give your voice a break for a second and just read these that capture my sentiment about all this. One is from Harvard psychiatrist John Mack, who worked with approximately 200 individuals who claimed to have contact with non-human intelligence and he concluded that the beings “are forcing us to appreciate that cosmic realities exist beyond the three-dimensional universe that has bounded our earthly existence.” And I’m getting these from your book. And here’s another one from Kenneth Ring who is a Professor of psychiatry, I believe, at the University of Connecticut who did a lot of research in this area. His belief is that these sightings and related experiences are intended to serve as “agents of cultural deconstruction” to change our culture and belief systems and make us more open to alternative ways of thinking about reality. So, according to these two gentlemen, and I’m sure you would agree with them, whatever these beings are, they’re not just tourists or sightseers or explorers in the way that some of the early explorers traveled around and discovered other continents from Europe and so on, but they have an agenda or a mission which is to help humanity evolve, to help bring about certain changes in our behavior, in our consciousness, in our thinking, and you’ve collected a lot of evidence that tends to support this. And there’s also a certain faction, perhaps even in the majority, if you look at all the popular movies that have been made and a lot of the YouTube videos that are out there, who feel that, yeah, these beings, they exist, but they have a negative agenda. They want to kill us all, they want to just harvest all the earth’s natural resources or something and then go about their merry way. But what your studies show, and we haven’t even begun to talk about your studies yet, but we’ll get into that, is that all kinds of very beneficial changes have taken place in the minds and the psychologies of those who have had these kinds of experiences, such as concern with spiritual matters, desire to help others, compassion for others, ability to love others, concern for the welfare of the planet, conviction that there is life after death, tolerance of others, and insight into the problems of others, among many other things. So, it seems like, although some people, a small percentage, said they were primarily terrified or that they would like it to stop, the majority, and I’ll let you in just a second tell us how extensive this study was and what it was, but the majority have said, “Oh, it was a really positive experience. It changed my life for the better, and I don’t want it to stop.” So, if these people had a nefarious or undesirable – I say people, if these beings, whatever they are, had ill intentions, then it would, what is it, Christ said a house divided against itself cannot stand. He was accused of being able to do what he was doing by virtue of the power of the devil or something, and he said, “Well, if I were the devil that wouldn’t work because I’m doing all these good works, and therefore I’d be divided against, the devil would be sort of undermining his purpose by doing good works.” So, it seems like these intelligences are largely, according to your studies, having a salutary effect, a beneficial effect, and that would tend to give us more confidence in their motivation. Alright, so that was a bit of a long-winded comment on my part, but why don’t you respond to that and get us into kind of an overview of what this study was, how extensive it was, who worked on it with you, how you managed to collect all these people, and before you do that, I might say that I bet you all the people who participated in your study, and there were thousands, were actually just a small percentage of the total number of people in the world who have had this kind of experience. These are just the people you managed to connect with who took the trouble to fill out the study, but it seems to be a pretty widespread phenomenon.
Rey: Yes, I would agree. Yes, it is indeed a very widespread phenomenon, and it’s part of what later on, hopefully, we’ll discuss the contact modalities and the work of this new organization. It’s, as you might suspect, historically, individuals have interacted with non-human intelligence via many different modalities. The “UFO-related” type of phenomenon is most recently popularized, but it was never studied before. The experiencer of that phenomenon never. There was zero data on that phenomenon. So, what had happened was, I’m not going to go into the detail of the experience that led in the three-day period to the formation of this organization, but within a few short months of that experience, which occurred in May of 2013, we had numerous PhD academic professors that were willing to join us in this mission, and the mission was, “How do you begin to undertake the world’s first comprehensive academic research study of individuals that had both seen UFOs and have had contact with non-human intelligence and never been done before?” So, the professors that agreed to work with us were Dr. Jon Klimo. Dr. Jon Klimo was a professor of psychology for over 45 years, and he was one of the pioneers of modern academic paranormal research, together with Charles Tart, Stanley Krippner, etc. He was part of that core group. He knows these two individuals as very close friends for 40 years, and he was a tenured professor, and he has written extensively about consciousness, dreams, about death, out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, about the psi phenomenon, etc., etc. So, he eventually became the co-chair of our research study. We already spoke about Edgar Mitchell, who got a PhD in astro- and aeronautical engineering from MIT and was the founder of the Institute for Noetic Sciences. Rudy Schild, who you had mentioned John Mack, he was the one that introduced Dr. John Mack about the topic of consciousness. Before that, Mack did not understand the physics aspects of consciousness, and Rudy was one of his best friends at Harvard, and one of the few that actually defended him at Harvard, in terms of the academics, to begin to engage in the dialogue about the physics of consciousness.
Rick: John Mack was studying alien abduction people, wasn’t he? Wasn’t he like in touch with Betty and Barney Hill, and then he was…
Rey: Well, yeah, at first, he was introduced to the topic by this man who was not an academic, he was researching abductions, and he viewed these experiences as mainly, mainly negative. It was Budd Hopkins, okay? So, Budd Hopkins would begin to send him the people that he had hypnotically regressed and gave it to John Mack. But then, after John Mack published his initial book titled “Abductions,” all of a sudden, he had hundreds of people going to him, and once, totally independent of Budd Hopkins. And then the second wave of individuals had totally different stories from what Budd Hopkins had given him. These people that were having the contact modalities, people having out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, they were brought to other matrix realities. These experiences were initially frightening, because it scared them, but it became much more spiritually awakening, spiritually transformative for them. And that’s when he began to realize that these were possibly multidimensional. entities that people are dealing with, and they’re totally transforming humanity. But he passed away before he was, he did write a book titled “Passport to the Cosmos,” which has this, presented this new paradigm. But it was as soon as he published that book, he got into an accident, and he died. And so, but most of this field of ufology, it’s, most of it is abductions, abductions, negative, negative, but there was never any type of data to be able to substantiate one position or another. So, we also had Dr. Claude Swanson, PhD physicist from Princeton University, who is very much interested into consciousness and the contact modalities, and also UFO contact. He joined us. Dr. Bob Davis, who is a PhD, retired PhD Professor of neuroscience at the State University of New York. He taught there for 35 years as a tenured faculty member, very much interested in these topics. And we brought in a couple of other professors, like a retired professor, Leo Sprinkle, who’s one of the first academics actually have an article published on UFO contact experiencers. Consultants were Dean Radin, who just mentioned before, and several other academics. And then we brought in our researchers, people who had their boots on the ground that were working with experiencers. One was Kathy Martin, who wrote the book on Benny and Barney Hill. So, a major researcher, also Mary Rodwell, who I had mentioned before, and a couple of other individuals. So, what we did basically is to get these PhD academics who were interested in this topic, together with the people that I had interviewed, thousands of cases of experiencers. And we got them both together and say, “Okay, how do you begin to study this phenomenon of UFO contact experiencers?” And so, what we developed was three surveys, two quantitative surveys comprised of 600 questions. And then we had one survey, which was qualitative in nature, which was written responses to 70 open-ended questions. And then we had the surveys translated into different languages. But what I’m going to talk to you about is our English language survey. We publicized the hell out of it. Throughout Facebook, over 200 radio shows, paranormal radio shows, UFO radio shows, consciousness radio shows, similar to what we’re doing now, to encourage people to take our survey. And what we wound up with was 4,200 responses from individuals from over 100 countries. And what we found out from our surveys, let me just briefly go over four major findings. There’s naturally hundreds of different topics we can go in here, because we ask so many different questions. But if you were to say, “Rey, what are your four major findings?” I would say, “Number one, while initially taking their survey, it was between 85 to 95% of these individuals said it was mainly positive.” Okay? And so, there was a whole transition of how that took place and why it took place, which I could go into. We asked that question of positive, negative, neutral, on over 25 different questions. Because how you ask a question, you get a different response. We even asked a question for the different types of “beings” that people interacted with. Was their experience mainly negative, slightly negative, neutral, slightly positive, or mainly positive? Okay? And then we asked it initially, and then later on with the beings. And what we found out was that the overwhelming number of these people said, “Look, it wasn’t negative.” Actually, for the certain types of beings, it was mainly neutral. So, that was a complete revelation for many of the folks. They knew that this was happening via the experiencers, but it was never quantified. Because if you go to the internet, all you read is that these are all negative, negative, negative, negative. Well, we documented with 4,200 experiences, it’s the total opposite. People are now, towards the end, are perceiving their experiences as mainly positive. Even though in the beginning, they were traumatized because of the ontological shock of seeing a physical being in front of you. Okay? So, that was one finding. The other finding was that these experiences were totally transformative. You had read some of those comments of how people changed earlier. What we did was we utilized over 60 questions that Dr. Kenneth Ring used for a statistical study that he did in 19, he published it in 1988. I believe it began in 1985. Now, Dr. Kenneth Ring is one of the pioneers of near-death experience research. He has published numerous books and many, many articles on NDE experiences. And now, he’s in his early 80s, retired professor from the University of Connecticut. And so, in that book, which he published in 1988, the book is titled The Omega Project. Okay? In that book, he compared roughly And one of the components of his research was how do these people change? And so, he asked the same questions to both groups. And what he found out? 85%. 75% to 85%, depending on the question that was asked, totally transformed themselves. In both groups, you would expect that from the NDE group, but also from the abduction group. People did not fear death. They became less materialistic, less egotistical, more loving and caring of their fellow human being, more ecological. They didn’t care about being famous, much more consciously aware. They now had a mission in life, a purpose in life. It was like 60 questions similar to this. So, what happened is that you first started off as a caterpillar, okay? And by the end of these experiences, when people are taking these surveys, they’re like a butterfly, totally enlightened, became more spiritual. It was like 85% of these people became more spiritual, much more spiritual, okay? And less religious, okay? Now, there’s a group, maybe 30% of the people that remained religious, okay? Like my wife, for example, they would still go to church. But now, they understand that that church is much, much more comprehensive than what they initially thought it was. So, what we did is we borrowed his questions with his permission, and he actually wrote an endorsement of our book as well, Dr. Kenneth Ring, and together with Dean Radin. And what did we find? But not with 85 plus 85, 170 people. No. Now, we had 4,200 people saying the same exact thing, okay? Roughly 85% of these people were totally transformed, not only spiritually, but in terms of their whole mindset, their own modality of life, how they viewed life, their reality, how they changed, how they behaved. It’s like a total behavioral modification. So, that was the second major finding. The third major finding was that these experiences, well, indeed, they are physical in nature. The physicality of these experiences is very minute. The overwhelming majority of these experiences are “paranormal” in nature, okay? We asked close to 100 questions related to the paranormal. And again, that’s not the proper term, paranormal, but for the audience members to understand it. All different types of altered states of consciousness. For example, 80% of these individuals have had an out-of-body experience. Huge numbers we’re talking about. 95% said that they’ve had paranormal experiences in their homes. And then the other aspect that you talked about was the messages that people are receiving. You named the gambit, okay, in terms of the messages. The gambit deals with, you’re destroying our planet. These are the two main topics that people are getting information on. The two main topics. One is you’re destroying your planet, okay? And you’re destroying yourselves, okay, in the meantime. So you need to change before it’s too late. That’s number one. Number two, you need to become more spiritual, okay? Because you cannot go to the direction of trying to save your planet and saving yourselves if you don’t become more spiritual, okay? Now, they’re not talking about religion here, obviously. They’re talking about that we are living in a multidimensional reality. And then within this multidimensional reality, there are different levels of understandings of realities. And non-human intelligence are occupying these different realms. And that they have a better understanding of source and spirituality. Also, when what happens to us when we die, how we need to change to become more loving, okay? But yet, in order for us to take the next step, the next stage of evolution, we need to move into that direction. And so, the general category that people put it in is this category of spirituality. But it’s much, much more profound and complicated than just the afterlife, even though that’s a major component of it. And then the third major finding is that these experiences are multidimensional in nature. Why? Because there’s a manipulation of space-time. And if you look at all of the contact modalities, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, remote viewing, mystical meditation, communication with ghosts and spirits, hallucinogenic journeys, et cetera, et cetera, all of them involve a manipulation of space-time. And that leads, then, to the hypothesis that we’re dealing with a multidimensional reality. All of our physicists hypothesize that, okay? In our group, we have three PhD physicists. And what they have told me is that, “Rey, if you graduate now with a PhD in theoretical physics, you’re going to be an adherent to a multiverse theory. That means that we don’t live in one reality, okay?” So, this is now almost every PhD physicist understands it, acknowledges it, and accepts it. But yet, the normal human being in this planet has no conceptualization of that, okay? And so, when you’re talking about out-of-body experiences, like these skeptics that are out there, “Rey Hernandez is lying and making these things up,” I wish that you have an out-of-body experience, okay? I wish that you have a near-death experience, because after you’ve had these experiences, and you return back to your physical body, all of a sudden, you lose all your skepticism. (laughs) And you also understand that we’re not just flesh and bone, that there’s something else to us. There’s a, if you want to call it a spirit, a soul, whatever you might want to call it, but we’re much more than just flesh and bones. And so, our research study on the UFO contact experience, the importance of that, is that most of the field of ufology still doesn’t understand what we did, the questions that we asked, and totally will not accept our research findings. They said, “This is woo-woo science, we asked all new-agers, new-age folks, our surveys,” and because these folks are material rationalists, okay? To them, the field of ufology is nuts and bolts. Pictures and videos of UFO crafts or conspiracy theories, that’s what that genre is all about. And so, what we discovered, via 4,200 people that have had these direct experiences, is that all these so-called experts in the field of ufology, they’re all totally clueless, totally clueless as to what really is going on, and what it has more in common with is the out-of-body experiencers, the near-death experiencers, the remote viewing, the mystical meditators, the channelers, et cetera, et cetera. So, we need to be able to understand this genre of the UFO aspects of it within a much, much more larger umbrella, and that was the vision that I was given when I was taken out of body driving my car, that all of these contact modalities are interrelated, that humans are studying them as separate and distinct phenomenon, but we need to be able to study them as one phenomenon, and that consciousness, humans are calling it consciousness, but in reality is a fabric of our reality, is the glue that’s holding it all together. And in order for you to have a better understanding of these separate phenomena, we need to be able to study it as one phenomenon.
Rick: Yeah. Alrighty. Let me respond to that with something that’ll kind of be combined comment and question. I wrote this down the other day and I emailed it to you and that is that it seems that ETs, NDEs, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, meditative experiences, many mystical experiences are related through a common denominator, namely that they all involve access to subtler realms, and I’m completely comfortable with the notion of subtler realms, we talk about it a lot on this show. But despite that common denominator, they can still be dissimilar in certain ways. For instance, to take an analogy, baseball and mountain climbing and boxing and scuba diving are all sports, but they’re obviously very different from one another. So, there could be subtle beings who reside on Earth, I have friends who perceive them routinely, and then there could be ETs, if we want to call them that, who visit from elsewhere in the universe and yet they do so by accessing subtler dimensions, thus enabling them to overcome the speed of light barrier. And I asked a friend of mine about this just the other day who lives in India and has had some very profound, beautiful experiences with high spiritual beings most of his life and he put it in this way, he said, “Suffice it to say that the Lord’s divine maya is vast and very difficult to comprehend and consists of many different types of worlds and beings, some of which are imperceptible to us here, others are perceptible. The perceptible worlds and beings can be reached by vehicular technologies, the others cannot.” So, in other words, depending on who they are and where they’re coming from, they may need a vehicle to get here, or it may be that they’re already here, just as we are, but they just live on a subtler dimension of life and so aren’t ordinarily perceptible to the average person, but they don’t need a vehicle to get here because they live here as much as we do. So, how does that all strike you?
Rey: No, I mean, these are all viable hypotheses.
Rick: Yeah, good.
Rey: And at this point, humanity is totally clueless as to the fundamental questions to ask on these topics, and that’s going to be what we’re going to be doing with this new organization, which we can transcend to later on. But yes, it’s a dilemma that, at least within the field of ufology, let me talk about that. Dr. Jacques Vallée, one of the pioneers of this arena, he’s written over 15 books.
Rick: And he was the guy who was played, whose character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind was that Frenchman, right? And that was supposed to be Jacques Vallée.
Rey: Correct. He’s given a recent TEDx talk on consciousness and the multiverse, in terms of speculative theories. He’s lectured over 40 years ago that this might not be an ET coming from a physical reality, something he suspects is much more complicated. And also, that’s a conclusion that Dr. Alan Hynek, who’s basically the godfather of ufology, reached in the latter years of his life, that this is much, much more complicated than what he initially thought it was. And he began to agree with Dr. Jacques Vallée. The dilemma is that, at least in the field of ufology, but also in these other types of experiences like ghosts and spirits, and remote viewing, etc., even mystical meditation, is that there’s a physicality to these things, okay? You’re physically seeing a ghost, okay? You’re getting, telepathic communication from this spirit, okay? Or even remote viewing or channeling mystical meditation. You start off with you meditating, even an out-of-body experience. You’re perceiving yourself with perceptions that you would normally have as a human being. You’re seeing, you’re hearing, even though you might not be in the body. So it’s both a mixture of physicality and non-physicality. Now, what many of individuals in our organization suspect, and again, numerous scientists that are in this arena of the contact modalities, is that our brain serves as a filter mechanism, okay? Which, let me put it this way, our reality might be filled with information fields, okay? Our reality is binary codes out there, okay? Rudy Schild and most of the astrophysicists conjecture that black holes are actually information storage devices, okay? Rudy was the first one to hypothesize that, okay? And with mathematics and physics. Later, Stephen Hawking agreed with that, and many other physicists, okay? So if it’s crazy enough to think of black holes as information storage devices, also many other astrophysicists talked about our cosmology as having what is called zero-point energy fields, which is information is stored there. Now, the way we as humans tap into these subtler realms of reality is that we have certain triggering mechanisms, like for example, people that become advanced meditators, all of a sudden, they pop out of their body, okay? All of a sudden, they’re having an out-of-body experience, then they journey to other realms. Or people, when they have a near-death experience, all of a sudden, they return, they’re seeing ghosts and spirits. They’re having paranormal experiences. They’re having a paranormal life, okay? People that are advanced OBE experiencers, also I’ve spoken with hundreds of them as well, these people are living paranormal experiences, okay? Once they learned how to pop out of their body when they were young, and making these journeys, all of a sudden, the brain is not a concrete block anymore. Now it’s like sand, where information from, you can describe it as zero-point energy fields information, is seeping in. So whatever these subtler realms are, it’s not like they’re separated by space, okay? It’s separated by consciousness, really. Us being able to tap into these other realms. So yes, everything that you just quoted, these are all viable hypotheses and things that I generally tend to agree with. But what we’re going to be doing with this new organization, Consciousness and Contact Research Institute, CCRI, is I’ve helped to assemble 15 brilliant minds that are interested in exploring what is the relationship between consciousness, our cosmology, and contact with non-human intelligence via the contact modalities. What is the interrelationship here? They understand that there’s so many similarities, but yet there are differences, like you just alluded to, to some of them. So let me give you a background for this, okay? Most individuals in these contact modalities fields, for example, the UFO folks, they just stick to UFOs, okay? The NDE folks, they just stick to NDEs. The psi phenomena, like the parapsychologists, they just stick with parapsychology. The remote viewers, they just stick to remote viewing, etc., okay? But yet, when you get them all in one room, they’re all talking about very similar topics and concepts. They, among themselves, they have these conversations about the interrelationships. But no one has ever written an academic article about the interrelationships of it, and no one, let alone, doing a formal comprehensive academic research study on this. Now, for your audience members, let me just define the contact modalities. I’ve sort of alluded to it, but basically, it would be all the different ways that humans are “piercing the veil,” quote-unquote, and having contact with non-human intelligence, i.e., UFO contact, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, remote viewing, communication with ghosts and spirits, mystical meditations, channeling, hallucinogenic journeys, orbs, etc., and there are several others, okay? But just so you can get an idea. Now, for example, let me just give you a couple of comparisons between near-death experiences and UFO contact, okay? In both phenomenon, how does communication take place? Mind-to-mind, telepathic, okay? Is communication in your native language? Overwhelming majority of people say yes, in your native language, okay? We’ve got that comparative data because we’ve did our research study in multiple languages with the UFO aspect of it. Same thing with the near-death experience. The near-death experience literature reveals that among the different countries, communication takes place in an NDE in their native language, okay, and telepathically. Number, what also, what we discovered was that three out of the top four type of entities, beings, that people are seeing in UFO contact, i.e., the energy being, the human-looking being, and ghosts and spirits, are the top three that people are seeing in near-death experiences, okay? The transformation of the people. People are totally transformed by it, and I alluded to it, discussed it before. The whole aspect of out-of-body experiences. I mentioned before, start with what? With an OBE. You’re physically, you see your dead body underneath you, okay? With both groups, people are taken to what I call a matrix reality, a three-dimensional reality, okay? 50% of the people in our survey, 50% have been brought to a matrix reality, okay? And you’re listening to them. It’s like they were taken to an NDE, kind of, except they didn’t have deceased relatives or an entity that they define as God, interacting with them. They had a mind that’s interacting with these people, teaching them lessons, showing them different things.
Rick: Let me pop in a question here.
Rey: Yeah, and there’s numerous other commonalities, but that’s just for the listeners to get a very simplistic understanding of some of the similarities, but I could go on and on and on with the similarities.
Rick: Well, you still can. I don’t want to break your train of thought.
Rey: Okay, okay, okay.
Rick: But there’s a question that came to mind, and that is that, if somebody has, let’s say, a near-death experience, they’re undergoing surgery and they die and go through a tunnel and see their relatives and all kinds of things. Alright, so that’s one thing that happens. Or they have an out-of-body experience, like, well, that also happens. They’re undergoing surgery and the next thing you know, they’re up in the ceiling looking at surgeons working on them. Both of those things seem like things that are just happening to them without the intercession necessarily of other types of beings, although they might encounter other beings when they have those experiences.
Rey: Not necessarily. There’s a very high percentage of these types of OBE type of experiences that there’s an entity that they perceive or physically see with them, like a non-human intelligence in the image of a spirit that people see, or they know that that entity is there because it’s communicating with them while they’re out-of-body.
Rick: Right.
Rey: So, it’s not just that they’re out-of-body and there’s no communication, any relationship with non-human intelligence.
Rick: No, no, no, I’m not suggesting that.
Rey: Okay.
Rick: Or somebody like Anita Mourjani, whom I’ve interviewed, who nearly died and, met her father and various other beings on the other side and then came back.
Rey: But we’re talking about at the OBE stage.
Rick: Right, right.
Rey: That context starts even at that stage.
Rick: Yeah, but then there seems to be a little bit of a distinction between that, although we’re talking about similar phenomenon or mechanics here, and the kind of thing you described where some being came to you in some kind of craft and was very much in control.
Rey: Well, not necessarily a craft.
Rick: Or some kind of something, that little U-shaped upside-down U in your living room or the big thing over your neighbor’s house or something.
Rey: Some type of non-human intelligence.
Rick: Yeah, but in any case, in that case, it seems like they are, we’re dealing there with types of intelligence that have actually mastered these realities and can navigate through subtler realms and come and visit people and know what’s in their minds and have some kind of influence on their minds and get them to do things this way and that. So, it almost seems like the one is kind of like a little bit of an accidental thing, like Danny and Brinkley getting struck by lightning and having a near-death experience, whereas the other is kind of like beings who have mastered the technology of subtler dimensions, so to speak, and are able to navigate and go here and there and do this and that by virtue of that mastery. Do you feel like that’s a legitimate distinction?
Rey: Well, it gets even more complicated than that, okay? Our survey has revealed that an actual physical being, the vast majority of people that took our survey saw an actual physical being, okay? However…
Rick: Flesh and blood like you and I, or kind of ethereal somewhat?
Rey: Both.
Rick: Okay.
Rey: Now, but what has happened is that as they continue with their experiences, they’re also interacting with intelligences that are not there, okay? So, something is not there, but yet it’s communicating to you.
Rick: Uh-huh, so you don’t see or you don’t sense anything through any of your senses, but still there’s this communication going on.
Rey: Correct, correct, okay. And then people are interacting literally with thousands of different types of perceived physical entities, for example, which I suspect that these are projections, holographic projections, that it’s not like that real physical entity was there, okay? Not all of them, but at least some of these experiences, like for example, okay? There’s this man here in Miami who’s come to be my best friend, okay? He’s the world number one contact experiencer by far, okay? And he’s a retired federal DEA federal agent. His wife is a PhD psychologist, his daughter’s a PhD psychologist. These are highly educated individuals.
Rick: His name isn’t William by any chance, is it?
Rey: No.
Rick: Okay, good, because I have a list of questions from a William in Miami that I’m gonna ask you in a little bit later.
Rey: Okay. And so, this man and his wife have seen Ganesh physically in their bed, not while they were asleep. It wasn’t a lucid dream. This is like they were startled because they see this big, huge light, and then they wake up and there’s Ganesh right in front of them. Now, did Ganesh come from the Ganesh constellation? Okay. They also saw Anubis, the Egyptian guy with the dog head. Now, did Anubis come from the Anubis constellation? Okay.
Rick: So, these are like archetypes.
Rey: Correct. People have literally described in our research study, literally more than a thousand different types of physical types of entities. So, you could either take the position that, yes, this physical entity was very, very real and he came from whatever reality he came from, okay? Or you could say that maybe some of them are real and the rest are projections. For example, I won’t mention the name, but this very, very famous person, very well known, okay? He and his wife saw a six-foot owl, okay, on their vanity, bathroom vanity. These are millionaires type people, okay? And it wasn’t like I heard it third hand. This is direct from the horse’s mouth, as they say, okay? So, did that six-foot owl come from the six-foot owl dimension or are these projections that serve a purpose, whatever the purpose that is, okay? Now, in terms of what we’re dealing with, okay? My response to whoever’s asking all these questions and all these questions that people are submitting to you is at this point, we’re dealing with something that is so freaking complicated, okay? That we can’t even begin to understand what are the basic questions to ask regarding to this because it’s like you’re prying into what is consciousness itself. That’s how deep this is, okay? What we can do, at least what we could try to do, at least with the UFO aspect of it, is to document. What are people experiencing? What are they telling us and trying to document? And now we want to move into the contact modalities to see the people, for example, this is the typical case of these individuals, okay? And my friend who’s here in Miami has the same thing. They’ve had almost every one of the contact modalities, okay? I’ve interacted with three physicians. These are physicians, okay? These are not senile people that are 90 years old, 80 years old. They’re still practicing physicians, okay? They’ve had near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, ghosts and spirits. For example, one, two physicians, they’ve had, well, after their NDE, all of a sudden they began to see ghosts and spirits in their hospital, okay? And I spoke with a couple of researchers on NDEs, and I said, “I’ve spoken with a lot of medical doctors, okay, over the years. They’ve told me the same thing.” And not only that, but also other NDE experiencers, okay? And OBE experiencers, and also UFO contact experiencers, that somehow there’s a triggering event that just opens up this whole fabric of reality, and everything else comes trickling in. So this person has seen Sasquatch, a physical Sasquatch with her husband. They’ve seen a huge UFO, the size of a, that blotted out all the stars in the sky, a triangle, twice, with her husband, okay? And so you’re listening to this person, and you’re saying, is this person for real? Then I met the person at a conference, the doctor. She gave me her business card, and she started talking in medical terms about her NDE. I had to stop her, “Excuse me, doctor, I don’t understand all the medical jargon.“ So that’s when I knew that she wasn’t crazy, that these are very, very real. And then you think about your own personal experiences, which is absolutely crazy for you to, anyone else to digest, and you say, “My goodness,” there’s so many people like this medical doctor, okay? Now, how do you understand that someone that’s having all of these diverse experiences? That’s why we want to be able to study, because that person, that medical doctor, and hundreds like her that I’ve interacted with, and there’s probably, who knows, maybe a million people all over the world, okay? These people, we believe, all of the researchers, and hopefully I’ll get to name some of these people in our organization, we believe that these people hold the key to understanding what is consciousness. Because they literally have been in all these realms via many different ways, all right? So, it’s like if we could pry open the door to understand these people and understand the phenomenon and how they’re all interrelated, we would have a better understanding of what is consciousness. But right now, we’re totally clueless.
Rick: It’s really cool what you’re doing, because it’s like, it seems like these experiences are ubiquitous. People all over the world are having all these kinds of far-out experiences, including many “respectable” people, well-educated doctors and this and that, and yet everybody’s afraid to totally come out with it.
Rey: Oh, yes.
Rick: If everyone did that simultaneously.
Rey: If I could interrupt you for a second.
Rick: Yeah, sure, go ahead.
Rey: Most of the folks that took our survey stated they’ve never spoken to anyone else about their experiences except their immediate family members.
Rick: Yeah.
Rey: So, that’s why it remains hidden.
Rick: And here’s a question that’s related to that that came in from my friend Dan in London, he said, “Given the amount of evidence you have for this phenomenon and the amount of highly respected individuals involved in the research, why do you think this is not yet accepted in the mainstream? Is there not evidence that is irrefutable that can be presented to the mainstream media? It seems that this type of knowledge experience has the potential to positively transform humanity. Do you think the day when this is accepted in the mainstream is very far away?” It seems to me like it’s kind of like this, everybody, I don’t know, it’s like the emperor’s new clothes or something. Everybody’s having this experience and everybody’s afraid to say it, but there could be some kind of tipping point, and perhaps your research will help to expedite this or catalyze it, at which we cross that tipping point and it becomes de rigueur, it becomes the norm for people to acknowledge this stuff and everybody starts sharing their experiences and then it becomes part of our more conscious shared experience of humanity.
Rey: Yeah, I mean, the way I could answer that question is, I read when I was in college, this very important book titled The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
Rick: Yeah, Thomas Kuhn, great book.
Rey: By Thomas Kuhn, okay? It talked about how new paradigms are established, and it talked about initially when these crazy radical ideas are brought forth, it’s totally destroyed and dismissed by the scientific academia, okay? Then later on, as the folks begin dying out, new scientists begin to become more receptive to these topics, okay? And what we’re going to be doing with our research study is that we’re establishing a new paradigm of our reality, okay? And it’s very, very difficult for a materialist, and you certainly can understand these concepts. Most of the folks in our organization, including most of the major NDE researchers, they believe that consciousness is primary, okay? Not our physical material reality. But yet you talk to the normal person out in the street, they have no idea what the hell you’re talking about, okay? And even within the field of ufology, which we as an organization never were, our focus was on consciousness studies. But when I would make a presentation at these conferences, you have all these very well-known names in the field of ufology, okay? They’re all materialist, okay? What we did with pseudoscience, the survey findings are totally unacceptable. What is this being brought to a matrix reality? What is this, all these paranormal experiences? Just like a regular materialist scientist. So if I went to a conference, let me just tell you, this was in June, the biggest UFO conference in the world called Contact in the Desert, okay? And they had this guy that lectured on the Peruvian skulls, these elongated skulls, which, he did a DNA test and they were proven to be 100% human, DNA, whatever. This guy got 500 people to pack up his room, and Rey Hernandez got 10, okay? They had this other charlatan, David Wilcox, who got 1,500 people and packed that auditorium, and Rey Hernandez got 10 people, because they have you competing against each other, okay? When they had me sitting down at a table, they had me sitting down next to the alien hunter, okay? This guy that had these hands, these clay hands that were hardened over time, these huge hands with these rods, these thin rods, like nails popping out. So he had all of that on his table. He had like 20 people lining up to buy his book and to get his signature. But yet, Rey Hernandez, with all these academics and this five-year academic research study, I sold two books while I was there. So that’s-
Rick: Don’t take it personally, Rey.
Rey: That’s the stage of ufology. And that’s why most of the NDE experiencers, the sci researchers, people like Dean Radin, Jeffrey Long, Raymond Moody, Kenneth Ring, all these people that are now working with us, while we were doing the UFO stuff, they want nothing to do with us, okay? Because, which is perfectly understandable. But now that we’re focusing now on the bigger picture of consciousness and contact with non-human intelligence, and the whole aspect of UFOs is one small component of it, then they’re able to join in. Because now we’re talking about, the psi phenomenon, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, remote viewing, things that are more established within their realm. But yet to the normal population, all of these topics are taboo topics. But it’s just going to be taking several generations, I think, to be able to be receptive to these topics, because we’re dealing with consciousness. We’re dealing with topics that are the opposite of materialism, And at this point, it’s not that they’re taboo topics, it’s that they’re not even understood by the normal person when you talk to them.
Rick: Well, I think it was Max Planck, the physicist who said that science progresses through a series of funerals.
Rey: Exactly, that’s the structure of scientific revolution.
Rick: Yeah, exactly.
Rey: We’re waiting now for these old buzzards to die, but what it is, is that three-fourths of the buzzards that are in our new organization, they’re all above 70 as well. (laughs)
Rick: Yeah, but I don’t think, but those buzzards have already converted to a deeper understanding, but I don’t think we have several generations to wait. I mean, I think that the situation is more of an emergency, and perhaps that’s why there is some kind of global awakening taking place and that’s perhaps why these beings, or whoever they are, are intervening more and more. And you’ve talked about that a lot of them, one of their main emphases seems to be the ecological disaster and the possibility that we’re going to kill ourselves that way. So, I guess you could probably spin off a comment just on that, but I guess maybe I’ll end it with a short question which is, has it given you optimism, all that you’ve learned, that through whatever means, including the types of visitations and experiences that your research subjects have had, that we are going to turn it around? That through our own efforts or through the intercession of these other forms of intelligence, that humanity’s kind of going to make it, and that enough people will be sort of woken up to the reality and the need and the urgency of the situation in time to turn things about?
Rey: Okay, let me address that question as follows. If I were just to look at the state of our current reality, given our politics, our economics, or the continuing destruction of our resources and our environment, and how we prey and feed upon each other fellow human being, given the economic structures that we have, etc. If I were just to look at that, I would be totally pessimistic.
Rick: Yeah.
Rey: Totally pessimistic.
Rick: Which is probably why half the country is addicted to opioids, because that’s all they see on the news, and that’s what they think the reality is.
Rey: Yeah, yeah. But here’s a contrast to that, okay? The flip to that. My personal experiences have been that these experiences have been orchestrated, and we haven’t had enough time in our discussions to talk about the specifics, but things were put right in front of me, okay? And not only myself, but many, many other people. Now, go back. When did remote viewing become popular? Do you recall? Or when people found out about remote viewing?
Rick: I started hearing about, I don’t know, in the ’90s with Courtney Brown and that comet that was coming and that whole business, and then that Heaven’s Gate cult committed suicide, and it got tarnished by that event. That was my first awareness of it.
Rey: Okay. It first became popularized in the early ’70s at Stanford University, at the Stanford Research Institute. And then the military bought in, then the CIA bought in, and then it’s continued under the table.
Rick: Supposedly, the Russians were working on it and all that.
Rey: Yeah. So it was really the early ’70s. Now, when did this whole aspect of NDEs become popularized?
Rick: Well, I don’t know again, but-
Rey: Well, let me tell you.
Rick: You tell me. I mean, I’ve read a lot of those books.
Rey: With Raymond Moody’s book, Life After Life.
Rick: All right, sure.
Rey: 1975.
Rick: Okay.
Rey: Okay, within three years of the remote viewing. The Autobot experience was popularized by Robert Monroe, okay? Before that, people didn’t know about it, the general population, okay? People talked about it in different mystical texts and genres, but it was popularized with Robert Monroe’s first book. When did he first popularize, I forgot the exact title of the book, but I think it was 1973 or ’74 as well. Again, within a couple of years of each other, okay? The whole UFO genre, when did that become really widely discussed, okay? Star Trek, when did Star Trek come on board?
Rick: Well, that was popular in the ’60s, but of course, there’s a big UFO upsurge in the early ’50s,
Rey: Correct, correct.
Rick: Roswell and all that.
Rey: But it wasn’t popularized all over the world. It was just little small clicks that got into the UFO stuff. But once Star Trek came on, all of a sudden, millions of people all around the world, okay? And then eventually, ancient aliens and all of this stuff. But again, we’re talking about the same time period, right?
Rick: So early to mid ’70s, it really started to-
Rey: Now, this is before the internet, so you can’t blame it on the internet. Oh, it’s because of the internet, the internet. No, no, no, no, no. All these four experiences became popularized at pretty much the same time. Why? Is that a coincidence?
Rick: I would think they’re interrelated. There’s a shift in consciousness taking place.
Rey: Correct, that’s what’s taking place. It’s a shift in consciousness that’s taking place, to talk about the different contact modalities. And whatever this intelligence that we’re dealing with, they are able to manipulate space-time, okay? To them, they know what’s gonna happen in the future. They know what’s happened in the past, okay? They’re able to somehow come into this reality and interject, okay? Our data shows that, okay, from we haven’t gotten into those aspects of it in our research study. But again, many of the people that talk about OBEs, NDEs, remote viewers, we’re talking about manipulating space-time and getting information from the past and in the future, okay? So my take to all of this is that someone has an eye on us. Whatever that someone is, we have no idea, okay? But we’re being guided, okay? Whether we’re gonna be ultimately successful in changing, okay? I don’t know, but at least I’m hopeful that yes, they are going to be successful. Because the way I see them is sort of like seeing an angel. How do you visualize an entity with angelic powers, okay? That’s the type of powers, quote-unquote, that we’re dealing with, okay? So if they want something to occur, they, quote-unquote, they, I think it’s gonna happen. So I think humanity will turn the curve. If not, they might just say, “The hell with it. These people are hopeless. Let’s start all over again and have a total depopulation of humanity.” And that is another very common theme among experiencers. People have gotten either lucid dreams or direct experiences. My wife, let me just give you an experience with my wife. All of a sudden, she came down to me and she says, “You need to become more spiritual.” This is before I had my spiritual experiences, okay? Because humanity’s population, most of it is gonna be wiped out. We’re gonna be living like Native Americans. We’re not gonna need medical doctors to rip us off. We’re gonna be doing our own home cures. We’re gonna be living in communes, treating each other in a communal way, loving each other. And she just went on and on and on and on. Now, if you know my wife, she’s like one of these Mexican traditional housewives. She doesn’t even have a computer. She doesn’t go to the internet. She doesn’t read any books on anything close to this stuff. New age, forget it. That’s sacrilegious. So I was totally shocked. And it came out totally like a robotic voice from my wife, right? And I was totally freaking out. What the hell is this? What the hell’s going on? I said, “Where did you read that?” “I didn’t read it.” “Where did you learn it from? Did someone tell you this?” “No, no one ever told me this.” “Well, how do you know about it?” “I just know it.” And then all of a sudden, after she finishes, she says, “We need to be ready for this, for this transition.” And then she went upstairs and then I followed her like a couple of minutes later, ’cause I was like, “I need to get more information. What the hell happened here?” She was dead asleep. The next day, she didn’t remember what took place, okay? What I just told you is also a major component of what these experiencers have received, okay? That we’re about to possibly, if we don’t change, have a purging of humanity. That’s another very common trend. So what I think is going to be taking place, my speculation is that, look, if we don’t get our act together, there will be a purging of humanity so that we could restart again.
Rick: Yeah, it’s interesting.
Rey: And spiritual, it deals with spirituality.
Rick: It does.
Rey: That we need to get our mind intact with who we really are.
Rick: I think that’s the key to it, that thing your wife said, you need to become more spiritual. I mean, you can stock canned goods in the basement or something, but the thing that’s really going to save you one way or the other, even if your body doesn’t survive, I would say the key component is to awaken the spiritual zeal and really accomplish as much spiritual evolution as possible.
Rey: You know that we don’t kill any animals. Lizards out in the yard, no. You know how many toads I’ve thrown away in the last two weeks? Like, eight toads, and there’s still one last night that’s out there. I have to drive like a mile and a half away from my house where this nice little canal, okay? And throw the toads out there.
Rick: That’s sweet.
Rey: Because we can’t even kill a little lizard, okay? Ants, we don’t kill ants, okay? My wife hugs trees. She communicates to plants and trees, okay? This is what these experiences do to you, okay? Totally transform to you. I talked to God. Before, I was a total atheist, okay? So we need to evolve, we need to transcend, we need to become more spiritual. And what’s taking place is an awakening of humanity, but it’s too damn slow, and they’re too selective to who they’re doing this to. They need to do it to the rest of the world, not just to a few individuals at a time.
Rick: Yeah, well, there’s various examples in physics. There’s one in particular that is called, well, the way a laser works, for instance. Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation is what laser stands for, and the way it works is you get the square root of 1% of the photons to align coherently with one another in the laser, and then all the rest of the photons entrain with them and the whole thing becomes one coherent beam of light. And in the heart, 1% of the cells are called pacemaker cells and they regulate the beating of all the other cells in the heart. And there are many other examples like that in nature where a certain percentage is, when reached, will have a kind of a regulating or coordinating or coherence-creating effect in the rest of the population of that particular thing, heart cells or photons or whatever. So, it may not be that the aliens, or whoever they are, again, I shouldn’t just say aliens, it may not be that these non-human intelligences need to sort of interact with every single person in the world, but a certain percentage of them could result in a tipping point at which the entire humanity will be profoundly influenced.
Rey: Yeah, that’s sort of the theory that’s out there, a lot of people talking about. If I could sort of introduce, people need to communicate with me, it’s [email protected].
Rick: That’s your personal email address?
Rey: The personal email address. And then this new organization is titled Consciousness and Contact Research Institute. We’re developing a website as we speak, and the members of our organization are Dr. Rudy Schild, who I mentioned before, the Professor of Astrophysics at Harvard. We have Dr. Jeffrey Long, who is a medical oncologist. He’s gonna be joining us as the Co-Chair of our research committee. One of the world’s leading experts on near-death experiences, Dr. Gary Schwartz, who’s a Professor of Psychology, was a tenured professor at Yale University, and he’s been studying mediumship for over the last 20 years at the University of Arizona. Dr. Jon Klimo, who I talked about before, 45-year Professor of Psychology. Dr. Claude Swanson, the PhD physicist from Princeton. Dr. Bob Davis, the PhD Professor of Neuroscience. Dr. Michael Grosso, who has a PhD in philosophy from Columbia University, and he’s affiliated with the University of Virginia, the Division of Perceptual Studies. The Ian Stevenson Organization that dealt with reincarnation, and Dr. Bruce Greyson with near-death experiences. Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove who has a PhD in parapsychology from Berkeley. Dr. John Alexander, who did his PhD in near-death experiences and was the head of the Remote Viewers Association for many, many, many years. Dr. Sean S. Jorn-Horrigan, a Professor of Philosophy of Integral Research at the Kennedy School. Dr. Glenn Rein, PhD biochemist, who also is interested in consciousness Dr. Paul Bernstein, PhD from Stanford, a psychologist. So these are…
Rick: A pretty respectable crew.
Rey: Yes. And then we’re having other advisors and consultants, and Dean Radin is just one of them. And again, what we’re trying to do is, how do we conduct the world’s first academic research study to understand the relationship between consciousness, our cosmology, and contact with non-human intelligence via the contact modalities. And I envision something very similar to what we did with the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free Foundation, which is like a five-year comprehensive academic research study with surveys, questionnaires, accumulating data, and doing in-depth interviews of the major cases, and then putting out books and publications, peer-reviewed publications.
Rick: So if people are listening to this and they think they might be a candidate for your next study, should they email you that address?
Rey: Yes, at [email protected]. And then for the old organization, the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free Foundation, we have the free copy of chapter one of our book. Our book is titled “Beyond UFOs, the Science of Consciousness and Contact with Non-Human Intelligence.” And you can read chapter one for free, and the one I sent you that you read, that’s 120 pages, a lot of data, tons of data in that chapter, and it’s for free. You can download it. And our website, you go to our website of the old free organization, the website is consciousnessandcontact.org. R
Rick:I’ll be linking to that on your page there.
Rey: Yeah, consciousnessandcontact.org.
Rick: Yeah.
Rey: Yeah, consciousnessandcontact.org. So we’ve got numerous academic articles on consciousness and contact at our website, so you can begin reading what these academics are saying about the topic of consciousness and contact, including Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Rudy Schild, Dr. Dean Radin, and many other individuals.
Rick: It’s funny in a way that you mentioned that Dean, I think you said Dean was one of them, and some of the other parapsychology researchers were skittish about any kind of involvement in anything to do with extraterrestrials, even though their field is extremely ooga-booga in a way, by normal standards. But it seems to me that if we really want to be scientific about it, and I appreciate the fact that you’ve used the word “hypothesis” many times in this conversation, we’re not talking about beliefs here, we’re talking about things that are potentially investigatable, that we might consider as possible, but we don’t know until we investigate them. But it’s interesting that they shun any sort of notion of, or any interest in actually, beings from some other place, some other planet, because it seems to me that even though that might be only part of the picture of what’s going on, it is a part. And if we really want to know the whole picture, we should just throw that in the basket along with everything else and consider all possibilities. And you’ve been a little bit dismissive of MUFON because of their nuts and bolts superficial materialistic approach, but at least they’ve contributed something, which is a fair amount of data and evidence that nuts and bolts craft have been flying around, apparently, that we don’t totally understand. So, I don’t know, my attitude is always, let’s understand everything we can understand and not exclude anything because it makes us uncomfortable.
Rey: Okay, regarding MUFON my personal perspective is that, what have we learned in 75 years? That their UFOs exist, that they’re out there, people are seeing them. Some people have taken pictures of it, they’re able to appear in one place and instantaneously, a second later, be 40 miles away on radar, these types of things.
Rick: Yeah, that’s interesting how they do that.
Rey: Yeah, that’s very interesting, but that’s been going on for 75 years.
Rick: Right, and what more are we learning about that?
Rey: What more are we learning about that? Exactly. So, in five years of our academic research study on the Experiencer, what have we learned? Tons of stuff, tons of stuff, okay, because we took a different approach, okay, because we focused on the Experiencer. Now, in terms of Dr. Dean Radin, let me just give you a little insight. I don’t know whether I should tell you this or not, but I’ll say, what the hell. Basically, Dean was always interested in what we’re doing. He was very receptive to what we’re doing because he clearly hypothesized that this experience was much more than just nuts and bolts, okay. It was way, way more complicated because he was a very close friend of Jacques Vallee. They’ve interacted for many, many, many years, and many other individuals that were interested in this field that were not nuts and bolts types, okay. So, he clearly was interested. However, as an organization, he’s part of an organization, the Institute for Noetic Sciences.
Rick: And they have their mission and their focus.
Rey: And they have their mission and their mission is to stay away from ufology. And you’ll be talking to the director of that organization in a few months, but we could talk about things off the record regarding that, but basically, they would not be too receptive to exploring the topic of UFOs because their funding stream would be significantly impacted.
Rick: Impacted. Yeah.
Rey: If they move that direction. They would prefer to deal with, mystical meditation, the psi phenomenon, yoga classes, things of that sort. That’s more in line with their mission.
Rick: Well, fortunately, my funding stream doesn’t care. And, it’s fine that we all have our different areas of focus. We shouldn’t all be trying to do the same thing and we can’t all do everything, so it’s good. MUFON does its thing, you’re doing your thing, and IONS does its thing.
Rey: But Dean Radin is involved with us.
Rick: Right, right.
Rey: He will be part of this team.
Rick: Yeah, I know that, yep. Here’s a question that came in from Siguna Mueller in Austria. She asks, “Although reality is beyond time, form, and manifestation, there has always been a unifying comprehension throughout all spiritual traditions that are pointing to the essence of truth, which is always the same if you ignore conceptualization. I wonder, are there ancient sacred texts or traditions that are describing and predicting that during critical times on earth that UFOs, etc., will play a tangible role for humanity?” And my answer to that question is yes, but what would you say to that?
Rey: Well, I would say that all of the ancient mystical traditions, all the ancient and all the indigenous cultures all around the world, they’re more in tuned to a true nature of our reality than the vast majority of quote-unquote “civilized humanity,” okay? And that the ancient mystical texts repeatedly discuss all of this, okay? In terms of we’re all one, unity, in terms of consciousness. There’s no separation, that we’re living in maya, our reality is maya, etc. And most of the people that understand that literature, that have read that literature, know that, understand that. Now, you could read into, I’m not by any way near a scholar of these ancient mystical texts, even though there are many people that I associate with that are, and they have told me, not from my personal readings, that there’s a lot of writings in there about, humanity needs to change, needs to evolve, become more spiritual, about, I don’t want to use the word end times, but, that humanity might not be here very long if we don’t change. So, yes, those types of phrases and concepts are interweaved in there, just like if you read the Bible, you could get almost anything in the Bible. But yes, I would agree with that statement 100%.
Rick: Yeah, there was a book that I read back in the early 80s by a woman named Moira Timms called “Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone’s Guide to the Coming Changes,” and what she did was she took all the ancient traditions and noted what they said about what was supposed to happen in the future, and then she correlated that with all the stuff that has actually happened since those traditions said that stuff, and that kind of brought us up to the present time. And then she sort of looked at what they had said that hasn’t happened yet, and it all was basically that, yeah, we’re in for some heavy times, and that if we make it through those times, there’s going to be a much better world, on the other side of it, but that we better buckle our seat belts because it could get pretty wild.
Rey: That’s a consistent theme that experiencers have been told by non-human intelligence, and that among experiencers, they understand that. And so, they’re getting this message, and they’re getting also a message that things are going to change soon, not 100, 200 years down the road, that whatever these changes are going to take place, it’s going to happen soon. So, among themselves, they discuss this over and over again, and I get that question asked repeatedly, what have other people said in terms of when it’s going to happen, because I just know it’s going to happen soon. I just know it’s going to happen soon. And again, you cannot give these people definitive answers to these things, but it’s something that literally a large percent of these experiencers are talking about.
Rick: Yeah, we’re feeling it in our bones. I also just want to add to Siguna’s question that I’ve done quite a bit of Vedic reading and study, and there’s a number of books in which they itemize a whole long list of different kinds of beings that exist in various realms. They have all sorts of names for them, Apsaras, and Kinnaras, and Gandharvas, and all kinds of different things. And they also talk about various other planets and the life that lives on those planets and the possibility of yogis communicating with those planets and so on and so forth. So, that’s just one example of an ancient tradition that was conversant with that stuff, and I don’t think it was merely fanciful, imaginary writing. I think that they, it was probably written by people who had some sort of experience to be able to say the things they were saying, and that’s just one tradition I happen to have studied a fair amount, but I think that other traditions have, I’m sure if you look at what the Aborigines have to say and various other ancient traditions, you’ll see similar things.
Rey: Yes, no, no, 100% in agreement. If I were to become a scholar in ancient mystical texts, you could literally write a Funk and Wagnalls encyclopedia or the world book, the one I had when I was a little kid, filled with 36 volumes of commonalities. So, throughout all of ancient society, they knew all these things. They understood these things because they were having experiences. It was either passed word of mouth, much of this, or in their written documents, either direct experiences or through out-of-body experiences or visitations, whatever, but these things are repeatedly told, culture by culture by culture by culture. So, again, we have more questions than we have answers. At this point, anyone that you have on your show that comes across, with any definitive statements, definitive arguments, these people are totally clueless. You ought to turn, unplug the show right then and there because they’re totally clueless. We don’t even know what questions to ask about these topics.
Rick: Yeah. Generally, I haven’t covered this topic too much on this show, although I have interviewed a bunch of OBE and NDE people, but usually people have a pretty humble approach to it. The experience humbles you.
Rey: Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely.
Rick: They tend to be very heart-centered and very open-minded and kind of sincere and innocent and exploratory in their attitude. So, I have a whole bunch of questions here from a fellow in Miami, which I could ask you, but at the same time, I want to make sure that after we hang up today, you’re not going to feel like, “Oh, darn, we should have talked about this and that and we didn’t get a chance to.” So, are there some certain areas that are important to you that would be important for people to hear that we haven’t touched upon yet?
Rey: Yeah, let me just summarize a couple of concepts. First of all, we have various chapters from our book available for free, okay? Our book is 820 pages, so we have already about 300 pages for people to take a look at.
Rick: Okay. Up on the website there.
Rey: Up on the website there. Up on the website you go to consciousnessandcontact.org and you can download those chapters. We also have many, many articles written by academics and scientists about this topic. And if you want a PDF version of it, you could also send and be put on our mailing list. To be put on our mailing list, send the mailing list to [email protected]. And also, I want your listeners to understand that what we did in terms of that first book was not because we are a UFO organization, no, but we wanted to understand one of the spokes of the wheel of the contact modalities.
Rick: Yeah.
Rey: We had no data at all. So, now that we understand that phenomenon a little bit bigger, then we can begin to integrate it with the other contact modalities where we do have a lot of data. So, that was the reason for doing that. And again, the focus here is to try to understand the unthinkable, try to understand the mind of God, the universal mind, okay? Try to understand consciousness, that’s the ultimate goal out of this. But we’re doing it through the contact experiencer of the contact modalities to see the relationship that they have. So, that really is what we’re doing, which is quite unique. No one has ever done that. But yet, all of these academics that I mentioned before, they’ve all discussed these concepts and topics among themselves. And I’m sure you’ve talked about it, with you and other individuals as well, in terms of the interrelationships here. But, so, we’re going to take our full body, not our toe, but the full body plunging in into this arena, which no one has ever done before.
Rick: Okay. Would you like to hear some of these questions that this fellow –
Rey: Yes, please.
Rick: Okay, his name is William and he’s in Miami. You guys can go out and have lunch together.
Rey: He can buy me a café con leche.
Rick: He better. So, since there’s quite a few questions here, try to give relatively brief answers to each one, but don’t cut them short. But let’s just go down the list. There’s about ten questions and if you get tired of it, let me know.
Rey: Do we do each one at a time?
Rick: Yeah, let’s do one at a time. So, his first question is, which aliens are you dealing with? And I know you don’t want to just use the term “aliens,” but you can reinterpret that question slightly and answer it.
Rey: Yeah, we’re dealing with literally thousands of different perceived types of non-human intelligence. In our questionnaire, we had 12 specific types of entities, okay? And then we had a box called “other.” Well, “other” was 36% because there were literally hundreds and hundreds of “other,” okay? But the number one type of entity at 55% was the energy being.
Rick: Explain that.
Rey: Okay, we didn’t give any clear definitions of it, but this was an intelligence that their form was energy, but it didn’t have a human structural form of, like for example, when you have a near-death experience, the entity that people are perceiving as God, okay? They’re describing it as an energy being that’s like a humanoid type of format, but you don’t see the eyes, you don’t see legs, you don’t see arms, but there’s like a structure there.
Rick: Some kind of subtle form, yeah. Let me tell you an experience I had one time. This was 1973 and I was giving a lecture on meditation at a college in Elmira, New York, and there had been a snowstorm. And so, only two people –
Rey: Next to Ithaca.
Rick: Yeah, right, there was a college there. Only two people came to the lecture because there was a snowstorm. So, there was one person sitting on my right and one person sitting on my left, and as I was talking, I was kind of talking to this person, turning my head and talking to that person, going back and forth, and all of a sudden, I felt like there was a third person in the room. And I looked straight ahead of me and there was like a ball of light that seemed very conscious and very aware, and it’s like, I kind of just gave it a nod of recognition, like, “Hello!” And it’s sort of like there was this feeling of “Hello!” and then I just went on, continued to give my lecture. So, I guess you might call that an energy being.
Rey: Yes. Most of the energy beings that people are perceiving are orbs of different types, but in this case, this is an orb that’s, communicating with you, okay? And so, that was number one. Number two is the human-looking being at 52%, okay? So, these are anywhere from eight feet tall human-looking beings to smaller entities that look like humans, but they’re small, but the vast majority, six to seven feet tall. Some of them are put into the Palladian box that are like blonde hair and blue eyes, very athletic with a skin-tight blue suit. Very large numbers of those, but the vast majority are in the category of people, what they call masters, which are human-looking beings that are dressed in white monk’s robes. Some of them come in brown robes. Some of them are tunic, Roman tunics, and some of them are Asian-looking, some of them are black-looking, but the vast majority are perceived to be white. Some of them have beards, some of them have no beards. So, that’s the number two category at 52%, human-looking being. Number three were the small greys. These are the typical entities that you see on the internet with the big head, the big eyes, wraparound eyes, very, very thin with the hands and legs, very, very thin. That was at 51%. And then coming in fourth place was the spirits and ghost types of beings. That was at 47%. So, those are the four major types of beings, and I can go down the list, but that sort of gives him an idea of the four major categories that people are interacting with.
Rick: Okay, good. So, his second question is, do you have equality with them?
Rey: Well
Rick: Not only you, but I guess contactees in general.
Rey: Well, we asked that question, and roughly that they were contactees. And out of those, 35%, no, 70% said that they were equal, relationship equality, and 35% said that it was like no separation. It was no difference how they were treated. So, yes, I would say that maybe 70% of the people answered that way in terms of equality.
Rick: Okay, good. And I think you just answered his third question, which is how are you treated? Are you talked down to or condescended to in conversations? But it sounds like they are treating people respectfully.
Rey: Well, again, there’s a small group that had frightful experiences. In the beginning, it was 37%. Later on, it went down to, depending on the questions that were asked, between 5% to 15%. Now, it wasn’t that they were talked down to or anything like that. What it was that for many of the people, their experiences started with a medical inspection. So, they were paralyzed, they were on a table, they were having usually these three grades, they were physically inspecting them. And if that’s the only experience you had, you’re gonna be traumatized for the rest of your life. But gratefully, the vast majority of people had continued experiences. And then their experiences continued to other types of experiences, including experiences with the human-looking beings and other types of beings which are much more spiritually related experiences.
Rick: Okay. His fourth question is, are you shown everything they do to you?
Rey: No, the vast majority of these memories are only small glimpses.
Rick: You don’t even remember at all?
Rey: No, no. You just remember, like, a couple of minutes, a few minutes, and that’s it. And then you go back and you try to piecemeal these experiences together. That’s why these people that are on the internet, like Corey Good, that has, every week he has eight straight hours of physical contact experiences with a being, you medically know that person’s full of shit, because-
Rick: He himself claims to have that, you mean?
Rey: Yes, yes, yes. So, no one in our survey, all the hundreds of people that I’ve spoken to one-on-one talk about it like this way. It’s just, you have to understand that they don’t want you to remember the full details of these experiences. You remember it in glimpses. That’s why a lot of these experiences come through hypnotic regressions, which is very problematic to begin with, hypnotic regressions.
Rick: Because it can conjure up any old thing.
Rey: Yeah, correct. There’s numerous problems with that. But even then, even in hypnotic regressions, you remember glimpses, small aspects of this. So, that’s my response to that question.
Rick: Okay, and then the next question is, whenever I use the word “you” here, we can presume it means contactees in general, not just Rey Hernandez, but do you understand their agenda?
Rey: Well, as I stated before, if I could only relate what individuals are telling me, and what they have been told by this intelligence is that we as humanity needs to change, both in terms of our environment and also in terms of ourselves. We need to cleanse ourself of all these wickedness, the ego, selfishness, materialism. We need to become more spiritual. So, humanity needs to change both in terms of your inner self and your outer self, how we treat other individuals and how we treat our planet.
Rick: Okay, and I think you’ve already answered his next question, so I’ll skip to the following one, which is, are you being used but don’t realize it?
Rey: Hey, let them keep on using me, okay? Let them do this to the rest of humanity, because look how people are changing, okay? They’re changing to the point where you want your best friend to be that way. You want your children to be that way. You want your spouse to be that way, okay? So what I always say, okay, is why don’t they do this to the rest of the world? If they did this to the rest of the world, we wouldn’t have exploitation, economic exploitation. We wouldn’t have destruction of our planet, okay? We would become much more loving to each other, much more caring. You wouldn’t have homelessness. You wouldn’t have people without homes to sleep in, food, people running around hungry all over the world. You wouldn’t have that. It would be a totally different society if whatever this intelligence did to us as individuals are doing it to the rest of humanity. So, if we’re being manipulated, please keep it coming.
Rick: Hmm. Maybe they can, excuse me, maybe they can only do it to or with people who are receptive to it or who are in a certain openness or something and, you can’t just sort of force it on someone who is closed down.
Rey: That’s what they did to me.
Rick: Yeah, but you might have seemed closed down, but I bet you you were ripe for this.
Rey: Well, I was totally closed down to all of this and it took two and a half years of cracking my skull open, me denying it, denying it, denying it, denying it, denying it, denying it, denying it, until this one last experience that just was the icing on the cake, as I said, that little cherry on the top.
Rick: Yeah.
Rey: And it was at that point, okay, I give up, I give up. And it was after that last experience that it all stopped.
Rick: Hmm, interesting.
Rey: Just like, okay.
Rick: Because they’ve done their job. He’s ready.
Rey: Yeah, we got him.
Rick: Okay, good. You’ve kind of answered this too, but I bet you could elaborate on it a little bit. Have they imprinted you? You know what he means by that?
Rey: No, no, no.
Rick: I think he means, have they implanted some sort of knowledge or agenda or something in your consciousness, which you are now enacting, which you-
Rey: Of course, of course.
Rick: Which you are carrying out. It’s like they fed-
Rey: Of course.
Rick: You downloaded something.
Rey: Of course, of course.
Rick: And now you’re working with it.
Rey: Of course, of course.
Rick: Yeah, yeah.
Rey: All major contact experiences would agree with that. It’s a two-way street here. They download information, but they also, they first upload information about you. So it’s like a two-way street, and it continues, okay? Most of this stuff, you don’t realize it. Let me just give you an example of this, okay? Just one little illustration. We had finished our research study, so we had all this massive data, okay? Then the next step is, what the hell do you do with all this data, okay? We had just finished, this was within a couple of days, okay? All of a sudden on a Saturday morning, I woke up, I had the whole book. Do you have that book in front of you or-
Rick: I never got the physical one, but I can show the cover on the screen.
Rey: Oh, goodness, I need to mail it to you.
Rick: I’m showing the cover on the screen right now, yeah.
Rey: Okay, anyway, all of a sudden, I had the image of what the cover of the book would look like, okay? I had all the chapters and all the authors for all the chapters. The only one that I didn’t have was who was gonna be writing the conclusion for it, okay? So immediately, I got to my computer and I wrote up like three or four pages of all the details, okay? So I sent it off to Mary Rodwell and Dr. Rudy Schild, who are surviving co-founders. Edgar had passed away by then. And I said, look, I woke up this morning and this is the download that I got. I woke up with all this. So both of them were like, oh my God, right? This is absolutely brilliant. This is great. And so I had written, I said, do I have the green light to move forward, to contact all these people, all these potential authors and co-authors? And they said yes. So I began to call all these people. All of them said yes, okay, in our book. All of them said yes. And then the last person who’s gonna be writing our conclusion, it finally came to me like a week later, okay? I stumbled across a book that I had read like three years earlier, written by Brad Steiger. I don’t know if you know who he is.
Rick: I think I might’ve read a book of his years ago.
Rey: Brad Steiger wrote our conclusion on his deathbed, literally, right before he died. I think he was going into hospice because he told me he’s going into a hospital. He might not be returning or he doesn’t know, but he kinda knew he was gonna pass, right? And he told me a little bit about it, he and his wife, Sherry. And he wound up writing that book within a couple of weeks of him dying, okay? Now Brad Steiger, for the folks that don’t know him, he’s sort of like the godfather of the paranormal. He wrote almost 250 books on all aspects of the paranormal, including consciousness, OBEs, NDEs, UFOs, ghosts and spirits, demons, possession, you name it, but for the masses, okay? And so when I sent him that, he says, “Oh my God, Rey, this is like my, sort of like my life’s dream to do what you’re doing and to write a conclusion for this, okay?” And he wound up writing like really a historic chapter, a conclusion, right on his deathbed about how all of this is all interrelated. ‘Cause he knew this like 30 or 40 years ago, he knew all of that, okay? That’s why he was focusing on all of these topics. But we actually are putting it out as a thesis statement. And so that was his chapter, that the research needs to continue, this book is very important because for the first time, we got one spoke of the wheel involved, which was never involved in the contact modalities and that yes, they’re all interrelated. So that answers the question that yes, we’re being continuously guided. You cannot explain these things. If you talk to the normal person on the street, they’ll think you’re crazy. But yes, this is how it works. Many major experiences, including NDE and OBE experiencers will tell you the same thing.
Rick: Yeah. I remember hearing that sometimes, that Mozart said that sometimes a whole symphony would just come to him in a flash and that would just be a matter of writing it all down. But he just had the whole thing in basically an instant.
Rey: Oh yeah, no, no. There’s so many scientists, as a matter of one Nobel Prize winner in chemistry who just passed away, I forgot his name. He had an actual contact with a non-human intelligence and a lot of his insights were like that, like, phew, it all came. Many scientists, what’s his name, Edison, all of a sudden would be like in a dream state. He would take naps in his office and he would wake up knowing solutions to things that he’d been, be in his head, Tesla, the same thing. Tesla, in some of his statements, wrote that he had gotten like these downloads from some other types of non-human intelligence. So, this is all repeated throughout the literature of science, but what it is, it’s totally dismissed. Okay?
Rick: Yeah. Well, it’s all really cool.
Rey: And also musicians, musicians.
Rick: Oh yeah, like I said, like Mozart, man.
Rey: Yeah, lots of musicians.
Rick: Paul McCartney came up with the song Yesterday in a dream. He had the whole song, and he woke up and he didn’t know what to call it. He started it out with scrambled eggs instead of yesterday. And he ended up writing some lyrics for it, but a lot of times things happen that way.
Rey: Many musicians, very, very famous rock musicians have had encounters with non-human intelligence. And there’s a man, his name is Grant Cameron.
Rick: Oh yeah, we just became Facebook friends.
Rey: Yeah, he wrote a book about that. Okay? So, again, it’s the aspect of downloads from non-human intelligence. It’s very, very common, but people just don’t talk about it because it’s just this woo-woo craziness.
Rick: Yeah. So, you guys are going to do another book, and this one’s going to have, be much more focused on the consciousness angle, right? It’s going to be a second volume?
Rey: Yes, this book is sort of like an introduction to this new academic research institute. And what it is, it’s going to have both a physical hard volume, again, like 800 pages, and it’s going to be two Kindle versions of over 500 pages each. Now, the Kindle versions are mainly going to be experiencers talking about their experiences via the contact modalities. So, that medical doctor that I told you about, she’s going to be talking about her NDE, OBE, coming and seeing ghosts and spirits after she came back from her NDE, seeing Sasquatch, seeing the huge UFO with her husband, and that’s just one of, almost 40 different experiencers that are writing their stories of how all this is interrelated. So, people, when they read that, they say, “Look, this is not just about UFOs. It’s about everything, the full big picture.” And then the academic articles are going to be sort of laying the introduction to these concepts. And so, the title of that book is titled “A Greater Reality, The New Paradigm of Consciousness, the Paranormal, and the Contact Modalities.” And that should be out, available in late spring. So, again, get on our mailing list. Send me an email to [email protected], We’ll put you on the mailing list, so as soon as that book is released, we’ll send you a couple of free chapters from that book, and if you’re interested, buy the book. We’ll make it, it’s going to be three volumes. It’s going to be sold as one bundle, and the idea is not to make money out of it, but try to sell it a few bucks above the course price.
Rick: Yeah, well, maybe when that new book comes out, we can have another conversation and talk about a lot of stuff that we didn’t get a chance to talk about today.
Rey: And that’s not even the data from the research study that we’re going to be doing. That’s going to be five years down the road, at least five years, when we’re going to be publishing a whole series of books and academic research articles on what this new data reveals about the experiencers of the contact modalities. So, this book is just to give you a taste.
Rick: Yeah, 500-page, 800-page taste.
Rey: Yeah, you’re going to be busy for a couple of months if you purchase those materials.
Rick: Well, thanks. I think what you’re doing is really important, and I just really enjoyed delving into it over the past week as I’ve been preparing for this and having this conversation with you. And it’s certainly interesting times we live in, and it’ll be interesting to see how things develop over the coming years. And I hope you pace yourself a little bit, get some exercise, get some sleep, don’t burn yourself out too bad with all this work, and stick around and enjoy the fireworks.
Rey: No, thank you. Thank you for the invitation. My goodness, it was like two and a half hours, totally passed by without even thinking about it, and we could continue for another two and a half hours. I mean, because these are fundamental questions of our reality, of our life, of our mission. It’s your mission, it’s my mission. We’re both discussing the same topics. We’re discussing it at different planes, different realms, but it’s the same fundamental question, who we are and how do we interact with the true nature of our reality.
Rick: Perfect. Good ending. So, thank you, Rey. And I’ll be putting up a page on BatGap.com with the links that you’ve mentioned with your bio and anything else you want me to put there, and anything new that comes out that you want me to put there, just let me know. And so, just to those listening or watching, also in addition to checking out that page and the links to Rey’s stuff, there’s a few things on BatGap that you might want to know about. One is the audio podcast, there’s a link for that in case you don’t have time to sit and watch videos so much. The other is to be notified by email when a new interview comes out, so there’s a mailing list sign up thing. And I would also encourage people watching on YouTube to subscribe to the channel because then YouTube notifies you. And there aren’t too many more different things on BatGap. It’s not a huge – it’s a big site, but the menus themselves are pretty simple, so just like pop the different menus down and you’ll see what we have to offer. So, thanks for listening or watching, and thank you again, Rey. We’ll be in touch again, and we’ll see all you listeners and viewers next week.