Frank Kinslow Transcript

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Frank Kinslow Interview

Rick Archer: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer, Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually awake or I’d rather say Awakening people. It’s been going on for about five years now we’ve done almost 300 of them. And if you go to, you’ll see them all archived and categorized in various ways. You’ll also see a donate button, which the clicking of which enables us to spend as much time as we do with this and expand it even further. So we appreciate your support. My guest today is Dr. Frank Kinslow. And I want to start by saying that this week, I had two synchronistic Kinslow events. The first was, I was at a little potluck dinner last Sunday night, six days ago, and I was chatting with this young fellow 22 years old and asking him about his spiritual background. He said, Well, I, I, you know, did Frank Kinsey’s work for quite some time and, and then I decided to learn to learn TM and I came in studying at the local university here studying Vedic Science. So I thought, well, that was an interesting coincidence. And then yesterday, I was in the local library, and I was chatting with an old friend, and I was sinking my iPad, you know, uploading stuff to my Kindle app on my iPad. And she saw Frank Kinslow, his name, so frank Kinslow. He’s an old friend of mine, he said, when he going to interview Frank Kinslow, and I said tomorrow, and that friend was Rae Bird, remember Rae?

Frank Kinslow: Oh, my gosh, yes, I sure do. You give Rae a big hug and a smooch from me.

Rick Archer: I will and she’ll probably be watching this. She may be watching it now live. And, and Rae kind of told me some stuff about you that I hadn’t picked up from anywhere else. So I thought, well, this is significant that I ran into her. And I’ll see if I can squeeze some of this out of you. But um, she was saying that, you know, you were early courses in the TM movement, which I had known with Maharishi and doing a lot of long meditations and rounding and that you had really a kind of a profound level of experience. And Maharishi even had a little group of people that I guess they called the Unity group or something with Andy Rymer, and some other people like that. And, and you were in this group and had a lot of interaction FaceTime with Maharishi talking about your experience, so, but she said that in more recent years, you have kind of declined to talk about that kind of stuff, she thought, because you have felt that flashy experiences are not that important or significant, and we shouldn’t emphasize them too much. So was that a fair assessment?

Frank Kinslow: Um, I would say that talking about experiences are just fine and the right circumstances. But most people, especially those who are just starting to explore, expanded states of awareness, will tend to take them as having more meaning and actually get lost in them. And so yeah, I play them down significantly.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I think it’s a catch 22 In a way, because on the one hand, you know, we don’t want to dumb down the notion of awakening and say, Oh, it’s just some simple calm state or something like that. Because it can be very, very profound. And great mystics throughout history have reported all sorts of sublime extra ecstatic experiences, you know, which seem very real. We don’t want to trivialize those. But on the other hand, as you say, people can get all hung up in it and start comparing themselves with others feeling bad, because they’re not having those experiences or thinking that they’re really hot stuff because they are having them. So how do you reconcile those?

Frank Kinslow: Well, I wait until the students have the experience and then explain it. And that way, they know number one, they’re not mood making, they’re not bringing the experience in through some need or desire. And that happens quite quickly with the process that I’ve developed. We have a two day workshop. Usually by the end of the the morning of the second day, people are having experiences where the environment is more friendly. It’s their stillness or reflection of kind of a universal love. They’ll feel that the boundaries are starting to dissolve a little bit and and then we can go in and discuss that a little bit. Then when I take them into the third day of the workshop, then this expired means becomes quite universal within the group. And we can go into the various levels of awareness and what you might expect. And we talk about it in terms of in terms of our heart opening up. And when the heart opens up, the perceptions refined when a perception is refined, the heart opens up even more. And so they can have an actual experience of this, then when I explain it to them, certainly by their question, hey, you know, Frank, by the way, I’m having this experience, you know, is it at does it have value at sure feels good? And, and then that gives me the, the platform in order to expand and explain to the rest of the group.

Rick Archer: Okay. Well, speaking of platforms, you know, one thing I think it’s a valid question to ask anybody whom I interview is something about their own personal development, because anybody can talk. But you know, people want to know whether what kind of foundation or platform, the person they’re listening to has built upon which they are speaking, and teaching. So in terms of your own personal experience, you know, how did it progress for you, you were having flashy experiences back in the early 70s? How did those mature, was there any kind of like watershed moment where you shifted into what we would call an enlightened or awakened state? Things like that?

Frank Kinslow: Well, I began having experiences when I should, right away when I started doing TM. And that was kind of I think, 68 or nine, I can’t remember exactly. And the experiences were more like memories and things that, you know, actually, all of us have, to some degree and other when we’re when we’re small, or when we’re young, and they just sort of get lost in the need to control and to grow. from, say, infancy and childhood into adulthood.

Rick Archer: What sort of memories? Well,

Frank Kinslow: memories of absolute joy unboundedness nowhere to go, nothing to do, I’m fine, just as it is. Those kinds of things.

Rick Archer: And when you call them memories, does that imply that these were from some past life or something? Rather, I mean, memory usually pertains to something in the past.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, well, past from childhood, basically. Yeah. And, you know, I don’t deal too much with past lives. I started as part of my progression, spontaneously remembering, you know, past lives left and right. And, and, as I did that, in this, in this theater of fullness, you know, they were just, they were just like memories. I mean, they had no particular value in and of themselves. And so, you know, I don’t, in fact, as far as I’m concerned, there are no past lives, there’s only one life or oneness and, and we just sort of play in and out of that, depending on on, you know, our present circumstances. It’s now back to the experiences. I was having a first actually what we would call Unity experiences, but it would come and go and, and I would drop down and then start witnessing and then have GC or, you know, the Open Heart and loving experiences.

Rick Archer: But let’s just define those terms a little bit. We’re gonna run through all three of them. So witnessing,

Frank Kinslow: okay, well, let me do it this way. Okay. We know that there’s, you know, four major states of awareness. And thanks to Dr. Wallace, who established that in 1970, we have that awareness of pure awareness is or pure awareness state is a major state of awareness, different from say, hypnosis or daydreaming, that sort of thing. Say waking, dreaming, sleeping, and pure awareness, right,

Rick Archer: which the Vedas actually called to turiya which means forth.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn’t know that. Yeah, I mean, for state, okay. So then when you have that, that pure awareness, it’s, it’s okay. You know, it’s, there’s a lot of healing that goes on a lot of readjusting, but it’s, it’s sort of isolated. It’s, it’s just out there doesn’t really bring in the fullness of life. And so what happens is, we start to experience a merging If you will have this separate state of pure awareness and everything else in life, and as I started to experience pure awareness, if you will, reflecting back in from the environment and, and inspiring events, even in the environment, I, I became more interested in the stillness behind it all rather than how it manifest what do

Rick Archer: you mean pure awareness inspiring events?

Frank Kinslow: Well, we tend to look at it in terms of objects, you know, oh is is pure awareness or is pure awareness reflecting back from this object or that object, so we see these things. And, and we don’t look at it in terms of an event, how is pure awareness there, in this in the past, and, and in the future, I mean, when you start to see these, these coming together like this, then the past in the future dissolve. So when you start to see it in the events that you attribute to the past, or the future, that, that it stays, but it dissolves in importance, or fate fades in importance. And so what we actually start to experience is a fullness or a wholeness or an expansion of, you know, it’s not the individual self at all, I’m, I’m five, seven, and I’m, you know, this, I weighed as much and I have this history, it’s that stillness, that’s, that’s always been there, if you if you think of it, when we were a child, you know, and you’re playing with a stick in the dirt. And then you’re just at peace, you know, there’s a sort of I am just playing around, then, you know, as an adult, that that same stillness or hein eyeness is still there, that it transcends the body, which was an infant’s body or a child’s body or an adolescence body. And so what, what happens then is, is we find this awareness starts to seep into everything that we are, and do. And that includes the activity, which is often left out, and not realized. And, and this is one of the first things that my, that people come to the workshops in my workshops, experience is this, this shift from doing to being and then being involved from the level of not doing, I don’t know if that makes sense. But it’s an experience that, that we actually start dealing with, By the second day of the workshop. And based on that experience, then we, I provide them refined techniques, if you will, to, to have a more refined perception. So I guess we could explain it this way and get a pretty good overview. There are, there are five paths to Enlightenment. And, and when I talk about Enlightenment, it’s it’s very simple, it’s not, it can be explained very easily. Enlightenment is simply the, the awareness of what is while it is now that’s as abstract as you can get. But the the the experience or the the reflection of that in our lives comes as we just feel more in tune with life, we get along better with others, we’re more creative, we could come up with a solution to the world problems in 510 minutes if we wanted to. In fact, if you were to read theory, Z, Maslow’s theory Z, which was you could probably pick up a copy online, if you Google it. Just make sure it’s from him and not some adulteration. He he’s he has about 24, or five different paragraphs, where he explains very precisely what it is for a human being that he calls a transcendent, what they experience in terms of, you know, anger or how they interact with others, how they see business and so on and so forth. Now, once we have those five levels, or pads, if you will, to Enlightenment, and we know one of them would be devotional. And unfortunately, these days it’s more emotional than devotional to would be intellectual and Advaita Is is a good indication of that, that’s where we would take the intellect and we just start dividing everything down until there’s nothing left physical, you know, twisting, bending, breathing, that sort of thing. And then mechanical. And that would be japa, or your mantras or mantras. And then there’s a fifth one that, that I call perceptual. And this is where the technique that I teach fits in the others take time, take a little time perceptual is immediate. When you when you perceive something, you automatically have a reaction both physiologically and psychologically. For instance, if you were to hear a screeching brakes, and you see a car hit a dog, okay? Then physiologically, you know, eyes would dilate adrenaline would start pumping in cardiac output in would increase, muscles would tension get ready for fight or flight, psychologically, there’ll be some sort of agitation there. Then, think about perceiving a sunset, for instance, automatically and without effort, we feel more peaceful in the mind, and the body becomes more relaxed, you don’t have to do anything that’s already built into us. So what I discovered was a way to perceive inner self, but the first reflection of it not really pure awareness, we actually go through pure awareness, and then experienced that finest level of of mental activity, which is very joyful, very entertaining to the mind, pure awareness itself, the mind could care less about, you know, what, what does it know or want to know about? Nothing?

Rick Archer: So let me just kind of, if I don’t ask a question, I’ll forget because you’re throwing out so many things. So we go, there are a number of things you just said. And I want to come back to some of them. But the most recent thing you said, through pure awareness, awareness to the finest level and of mental activity, but I presume what you’re implying is that although pure awareness is beyond the finest level of mental activity, we we somehow don’t just take refuge there but entertained, but But somehow, you know, begin to operate just above that, at the finest level of mental activity where there’s actually still something going on, right?

Frank Kinslow: Yes, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, it’s see the beauty of of quantum entrainment is that it requires no effort to maintain a state of expanded awareness and the mechanics that you just described or it we actually must transcend or go through pure awareness first, and then when we come out instead of returning to activity in our daily lives, we maintain a very quiet state. Now, this level I, I call Eufeeling that and Eufeeling EU, EU,

Rick Archer: which, which means good,

Frank Kinslow: good or truth. And also in the spirit of Hans Lea, you as in euphoric? So, once we, the mind perceives Eufeeling it wants to stay there, it’s not an effort, it’s not something you have to keep coming back to right. So,

Rick Archer: and this harkens back to Maurice Sheaths principle of natural tendency of the mind that the mind seeks a field of greater happiness than that every every living being is kind of trained were imbued with that that tendency, right?

Frank Kinslow: Absolutely. I mean, all of life. We move away from pain towards pleasure. Yeah. And, and this is it, the mind is not interested. Unless you stoke it up intellectually, is not interested in nothing, need something, some sort of boundaries to attach to?

Rick Archer: One thought that comes to mind is that in the yogic tradition, there, there are these five Sheaths or Kosis. They’re called, and the subtlest sheath is said to be a Nanda Maya, Nanda Maya Kosha, which is the bliss sheath. And it said that you have to kind of penetrate that or even go beyond that, in order for full realization to take place. So the question comes to mind, you know, are you somehow teaching people to kind of get hung up in the bliss sheath and not not go beyond that as might be necessary for full realization?

Frank Kinslow: Oh, that’s a very good question. You have To look at this in terms of a, well, that people come to my workshops are from every walk of life, they’re not, quote, spiritual beings necessarily looking for spiritual Enlightenment, they, they come to learn a healing technique. Because what happens is when we experience Eufeeling, we find that the healing takes place at a very rapid and deep rate. And not only in yourself, but in others. And so, you know, you’d get things like shoulder problems and and sprained ankles that will, that will heal in a matter of minutes. Sometimes just by experiencing Eufeeling

Rick Archer: you know what I should probably without interrupting you, I should probably let you lay out the things you teach, you know, there’s you stillness, and there’s a nothingness thing. And there’s Eufeeling because you’re alluding to those things, and I haven’t given you a chance to properly explain them. So why don’t you take as much time as you like to just lay out what it is you’re teaching so that when you refer to them, it’ll be in a context that people understand.

Frank Kinslow: Okay, and actually, we can just pick up from where I what we were just saying here, and that is that that experience of youth feeling is analogous in physics to the quantum vacuum, the vacuum state, or zero point, it’s, it’s where everything starts to move. And then, but but just before it starts, it’s still not pure awareness. There is some bending going on. And I’ll give you an analogy in a few minutes to help that once we know that various states. But when someone comes in to learn QE, or quantum entrainment, they’re there want to learn a healing technique? Well, it really isn’t a healing technique, we’re not moving energy, we’re not doing anything. We are simply taking the awareness to its finest level pure awareness and then allowing it to become slightly active. And when that happens, it’s very harmonious and very healing. And so this very simple technique that actually, you don’t even need to go to a workshop, you can you can read the book, learn it right out of uncle. And my books have been translated into more than 25 different languages. It even works when it’s translated.

Rick Archer: And you will also have some audio recordings that a person could download.

Frank Kinslow: Yes, yes, yes. And what that means is that, that this is a natural tendency, this is something that’s already built into the human being. And as I said, before, it’s talking about perception. It is simply perceiving Eufeeling that makes a difference. You don’t have to try to hold it, you don’t have to try to get

Rick Archer: it. I think you need to still define Eufeeling more thoroughly,

Frank Kinslow: oh, Eufeeling is? Well, there are gradations of Eufeeling and the the person who works into the workshop, the first day will learn to perceive Eufeeling as an expression of peace or joy or love, contentment, a sense of wideness or expansion, lightness, those kinds of things. Right.

Rick Archer: So in other words, if we tune in, we noticed that some of those nice things are already there, we just haven’t we’ve just been overlooking them, right?

Frank Kinslow: That’s exactly right. Okay. And they’re always there always have been Yeah. And so basically, it’s like, I’m tapping on the shoulder and say, Look, you’re looking for Enlightenment, or you’re looking for more money, or you’re looking for a better relationship, looking in this direction. And I just simply say, well turn around here. First, let’s look at this first, feel that joy feel at peace, that sense of stillness. That then is your foundation. Now, when you go back out, and you want to improve your relationships or your work, since you mentioned, you’re going to do it from a more effective level. And that’s so easily attained that it is really the way us as humans should function.

Rick Archer: Okay, now, I said I wasn’t going to interrupt you, but on this, on this easily attained point, you and I both spent years, on long courses, you know, six months at a time doing hours and hours and hours of meditation a day. And, you know, it was very powerful, very profound. And, you know, very transformational, you come out of one of those courses and you feel like you’ve gone from a rusty old Volkswagen to a new Cadillac or something. Yeah. And so but, you know, really, we we put in the time, and, and it was and there was a lot of intense stuff going on, too. It wasn’t just all bliss and light. There was very often a lot of what Maurice used to call on stressing, you know, just normalization of the nervous system and with its corresponding mental gyrations that that would put you You’re and so now you’re saying that, you know, people can walk into a weekend workshop? And, you know, within a within a day be you sounds like you’re saying be experiencing what it took us years of practice to experience and actually, it also seems you also seem to be implying that they’re even stabilizing it in that short of time.

Frank Kinslow: Not stabilizing it. No, but definitely experiencing it. Okay. Well, it was what we used to call in the movement, CC or cosmic consciousness to having glimpses, they’re having glimpses of it. And and these are and I do not teach this at all, we’re focusing remember on healing, right? But simply by shifting the perception from whatever to this, Eufeeling. And once they do that, it’s automatic. So there’s, you know, we you’ve heard of individuals becoming, quote, instantaneously enlightened. Right, right. All right. So there’s no reason that they can’t be at least for short periods of time experienced this? Yes, they

Rick Archer: are. And I think you and I both did also, on our very first day, when we learned to meditate there was that immediate, this is it. But then, you know, it’s a long haul to totally integrate it into your relative life.

Frank Kinslow: Well, you know, it becomes a long haul. And this is one thing that, that I discovered when I was 61 years old, it becomes a long haul only when you’ve made it that I kept looking for inner peace to be stabilized. And, and, and applauded those individuals who had and but then I watched these even the greatest saints, you know, you look at their history and, and they get angry at people, they have affairs, they watch TV drink Coca Cola, you know, even the Dalai Lama. He says, Yeah, I get mad, I just don’t stay mad very long. Right. So this idea of, you know, slow walking, slow talking and peace. And, you know, it’s I don’t think that is that is accurate. I don’t think that that’s. So what happens is, we start to play our own music, if you will, as if we were a unique instrument in all of creation. And most of the time, we’re giving it away, even while I was practicing TM and teaching, as a governor of the Age of Enlightenment, I was, I was fitting within certain parameters, which were quite natural for me, right, and my own fault. But the way I saw life, and so I was playing someone else’s music, right. And so what happened was at age 61, I won’t go into the details of it. But I had occasion to bottom out, if you will, financially, in terms of my health, and even spiritually, at this point, I’m saying, you know, what’s going on. And so I sat on my couch, it ended up for being three days, and I just started throwing out what didn’t work. And at the end of three days, nothing worked. You know, I was just like, I know, that doesn’t work. That won’t work that never did work. And so I started to get depressed and say, What am I going to do? And I said, there’s nothing I can do. And as soon as I did this incredible piece, overwhelming, not like I had had before, it was as that was a piece within parameters. This was, this was a remarkable realization that there is nothing to do and nowhere to go.

Rick Archer: Interesting. By the way, pardon me, how old are you now?

Frank Kinslow: I’m 69. Okay,

Rick Archer: so it reminds me of that verse in The Gita where, you know, our juniors aren’t gonna do it this way. I’m gonna do it this way. And then finally, he gives up and his commentary, marshy says it, as long as a man feels like he can do it for himself. That, you know, he keeps on trying, but at a certain point, surrender happens, and he gives into airy gives it over to a higher intelligence.

Frank Kinslow: Well, you know, and that’s exactly what we, you know, many of us, when we were teaching TM, we’re striving for, quote, Enlightenment, and we saw we had all the parameters, and that really box to thin and, and so these people coming to me aren’t looking for Enlightenment. And then they start tasting it, you know, and just naturally, without any effort, just by doing those simple things are perceiving that simple experience.

Rick Archer: Well, that’s how a lot of people got into Tm today. We say, hey, release your stress, improve your health or have better relationships. We don’t talk much about Enlightenment, then they come in, they have this profound experience. And they Whoa, what’s this all about? Yeah. Tell me about this.

Frank Kinslow: Well, once they have that experience in the in the week, the basic or first day and the second day, then I offer a third day and this is so fast. I mean, I only have two three workshops. Yeah. And we’re talking about what we talked about as a unity experience. And I’ll build up to that the third day now, they know they can they can do, they can become aware of Eufeeling on a certain level. That is its expression, very quiet level in the mind. The third day, I teach them a thing called QE intention, that is how to have a desire from this very quiet level, you know, what is Ritam Bhara Pragya, right. And what we do then is I introduced because they’ve had two days of, of this, experience, this refined awareness, this experience inactivity, remember, we’re not sitting in meditation, not at all, they’re having this with their eyes open while they’re moving. And so it stabilizes very quickly. So now, I introduced them to pure Eufeeling. And probably the best way to explain this to the audience is, if I have a prism, and I shine pure light through the prism, it then breaks up into the colors of the rainbow, orange, indigo, violet, yellow, red, blue, green. All right now, Eufeeling as its first perceived is the colors orange, indigo, violet, yellow, violet, yellow, or peace, joy, love, compassion, okay? That’s the reflections. When the pure light goes in, before it breaks into the colors of the of the rainbow, it starts, the white light starts to bend, it needs to bend in the way to become violet, or orange, okay? It’s still white light, but it’s not pure white light, because there’s some movement there. In the mind, that’s what I call pure Eufeeling. And it is the first glimmering of individuality. And yet it is still unbounded, if you will, it has a foot in both worlds. So once we experienced that, then we just we learn how to have an innocent desire from that level. Now,

Rick Archer: and isn’t it? But isn’t it spontaneous? I mean, don’t you just if you’re at that level, you’re gonna be having desires anyway, you always do? And wouldn’t you just sort of have them? Or is there actually something that needs to be taught to have them in a specific way?

Frank Kinslow: Well, remember, these people are now three days old. Okay? And, and they’re still working with the Newtonian, classical physical laws of cause and effect, right? We have shifted them in actually, in one hour, or let’s say, within the first half of the day, we have shifted them into a quantum mechanical probability oriented world, and there but even though they can experience it, do it easily, it’s quite natural for them. The minds haven’t caught up with it yet. They’re still living in the cause and effect world. And so what how we teach that you always have to approach the student where they are. And so we say whatever your desire is, you want more money, you want a better relationship, you want a new car, okay? Then let’s just take that desire to pure Eufeeling let’s just allow that to settle into that. And immediately their desires fulfilled.

Rick Archer: They have a new car comes crashing through the wall,

Frank Kinslow: oh, well, that’s emotionally, or in terms of the desire itself. Now, how that manifest outwardly, will take a little little time to explain in terms of probabilities and that sort of thing. In other words, you’re going to get more than you desire on the everyday level, which I call common consciousness. Everyday. Hi, nice.

Rick Archer: I know. So what about firstly, what if a new car is not what you really need, but it’s just some kind of, you know, you have this desire for a Tesla or Ferrari or something? And, and secondly, we were talking earlier, I think it was before we actually started broadcasting, about your disillusionment with the law of attraction and how your, your public you kind of dropped that and you’re so your publisher dropped you, but this is beginning to sound like a lot a lot like the law of attraction.

Frank Kinslow: Well, it does. It sounds exactly like it except it’s totally opposite, right? With the law of attraction, which by the way, does not exist in science anywhere that it is not a law somebody made this up. And then they build some fabrication around it about manifesting from the laws of the universe. And what what that is, is first of all, you have this desire, then you you do something you gather, you know you do your intention work, whatever that

Rick Archer: is put little post it notes on your bathroom mirror. And yeah, or even

Frank Kinslow: more than that you start building, like, if you want your dream home, and you start building your dream home, you know, you know what the shutters are going to be what the front door looks like, okay? All this work into it, and then you got to add emotion to it. So you really got to stoke up that desire for it. And as if that was all going to make the difference. What we do with the QE intention is we allow whatever that desire is, let’s say you want your dream home. And let’s pick something that’s really, let’s say that you want this job, this promotion coming up, really, really want this, you can feel it. So when you do QE intention, you just what you do is you first experienced this, this pure A Eufeeling. And from that level, then you just simply have the idea of the promotion or the desire, and then let it go. And immediately the desire that thing that’s pushing you dissolves, see, so in one in the law of attraction or in positive thinking, you work your way towards it, and your desire is fulfilled when you get the object of your desire, okay, here, what we do is we know that the object will not fulfill their desire, it will never fulfill their basic desire for inner peace or joy or love, that in fact, it is pure Eufeeling in this case? And so, what we do, as soon as we experience pure Eufeeling, then the desire of all desires is fulfilled. And and from that level, now, they are free to allow it to manifest in any way it will, will it come? Well, the chances of it happening are better than you know than if they had done work from common consciousness out of fear and fear driven, this is this is just at peace. And basically they’re they they accept what comes they become accepting of the situation. And it’s, it’s really a beautiful way to go after this. This desire now free of this worry and control, they’re more likely to get it and get it get this race or if they are not supposed to have it. So you see, we can have a desire for something that’s not good for us, you will tend to allow that to erode. So it falls away as a desire if it’s not good for you. So there’s a lot going on on this level. That is that has nothing to do with our control once we release that control, and allow the probability to take over from an more orderly or organized state. And we could we could look at it this way. Let’s take our iron filings, put them on a piece of paper, okay, and you bring a magnet to them, you know, they line up again, along the lines of force Well, in working on common consciousness through our traditional law of attraction, for instance, or belief programs or intention programs, it’s like taking those filings and adjusting them and then just sitting back and, and let’s say there are million fiber fibers, I mean filings, and you try to adjust the few of them in and then hope the rest will will line up to get you what you want. As opposed to bringing the magnet magnet is Eufeeling, then this and that and this is a very we see it, the new students sees it right away, because they meet a perfect stranger who has, let’s say, for 20 years has had a neck problem and can’t turn their head so far. They do QE and two or three minutes later, their head is moving normally again, they see how this orderly work orderliness works physiologically. And so now we just move it in to the realm of the psychology of the, you know, the mind. And then they start to see it work first by by fulfilling and a desire. And then after that, with, you know, without the push desire that comes out of fear, we’re now moving out of this very quiet state that allows it to come if it will, or if it’s supposed to, if it’s not, then something better will come. And that’s a very beautiful point.

Rick Archer: Yeah, there’s a real subtle consideration in this, you know, because, I mean, people have desires all the time that they probably shouldn’t fulfill, but maybe they should you know, and how do you know and how do you know if this particular desire let’s say you want to be with such and such a person? And it seems like you really should be and you really want to be and everything, but you know, yeah, let’s say you end up with them and six months down the line, he realized it was a big mistake. But um So what you’re saying is somehow you get down to this level, and you maybe entertain the desire, I want to be with this person, but then you drop it or surrender it. And, and in doing that, I’m just reiterating, and you can correct me and correct me if I haven’t gotten this right. But in doing that, you have kind of set up the conditions for the fulfillment of that if it’s meant to be fulfilled, but at the same time, since you’ve dropped it or surrendered it, you’re open to it not being fulfilled, because there’s a larger intelligence that knows whether or not that is really what you need.

Frank Kinslow: Well, yes. And remember, fulfillment on the on the psychological level has already been attained good, we’re only talking on the material level after that, yeah,

Rick Archer: we go. In other words, you have the fulfillment that would be had had you were you to actualize that relationship, even whether or not you get that relationship, you’ve already got the fulfillment, you got exactly get the goal before you even get the

Frank Kinslow: and that’s what I mean, when we turn everything upside down, instead of working towards getting the goal, we just experienced the goal first, right? And then they can enjoy whatever happens after that.

Rick Archer: Yeah, this is all very reminiscent of what Marcy called the TM siddhi program, of course,

Frank Kinslow: yes, of course. And, and, and then once they have had that course, they can take a two day workshop, which I call the use stillness workshop. And this is to actually perceive this pure Eufeeling inactivity in, in, in things and in space in, in, in, in their daily life. This I’m very excited about, we’ve just been teaching it now for less than a year. And the results are quite remarkable. And again, these are people who are ignorant to quote, states of awareness, who higher states of Enlightenment, for the most part. These are medical doctors, psychologists, physical therapists, you know, single moms, and so on and so forth. We have a lot of professionals, but we also have a lot of, you know, people who were just there for whatever reason.

Rick Archer: I was gonna ask, I mean, obviously, when you offer a group, how many people come to your group things? Ordinarily?

Frank Kinslow: Well, that’ll depend. We started out in Germany, and we were having 400 or so in a workshop. In fact, the first time I’ll tell you, this is a great story. I published the first book, The Secret of instant healing. In the United States, where I self published couldn’t find a publisher, a German publisher called me and said, we’d like to publish it in Germany, I said, Well, fine. I didn’t know anything about Germany or whatever. But go ahead. I just don’t know if if translated into another language, the technique will work. So you know, he says, well, we’ll be very diligent about making that happen. Now, the book was due to come out in the middle of February 20 2009. Okay, this was in the spring or fall of 2008. He says, you know, I’m going to come to the US and learn your technique. I’m very interested in this. Now, this is a man who has set up the biggest applied kinesiology school in the world. And he’s no, you know, it’s not just a publisher, but he has he started out. He’s a doctor, what’s called the hydro practica. They have medical doctors, and then they have doctors who are in charge of all of the natural healing. And so he came over and he learns it. And then he says to me, you know, would you be interested in coming to Germany and teaching a workshop? And I said, Yeah, but I’m flat broke. And you’re going to have to pay my way over and back and get me a place to stay. And he said, Well, you know, we need about, we need about 40 or 50 people, and then that’s enough to pay you over and get you back and you can stay with my wife and I and so on. So I said, Okay, now, we set it up for the following October, that would be 2009 of October. The book came out in in mid February 2009. Two weeks later, it went to number one in natural healing on amazon dot d. It actually went to number six out of all the books of a millions of books. It stayed in the top 100 for a year and a half. Okay, it just took off. It’s just crazy. That now the Germans are not Americans. They look at things a little differently. By the time we got there now, he said, Well, as we were going, he said, you know, we filled up this one workshop we needed to come Can you come for a second week? And I said yes. And then he said, You know that one filled up. Can you can you come for can you teach in between the weekends? I’d say yes. Then he said Frankfort called they want you long story short, we ended up with seven workshops. And I think it’s seven workshops with 5040 or 50 people in it. Well, it turned out to be seven workshops with 400 Plus, and each one, it was just phenomenal. And and these were all, these were all people from all walks of life. But as I said before, and the teaching was just, I mean, it stayed like that for three years, we’ve just sold out in German. Yeah, in Germany, and it spreads, which is

Rick Archer: good, because it shows that obviously, it worked for the people or word of mouth would have killed it, you know, yeah.

Frank Kinslow: And then to spread from there. And we go now to Asia, Japan, and we were in just Kazakhstan just recently. We go throughout, we travel, excuse me, eight weeks, twice a year. And each week, we did a different country in Europe or Asia. So we keep busy there. So our numbers are smaller now, but but the interest is still growing

Rick Archer: great. Well, if you were to break it down, and among all the people that come to your workshops into percentages, you know, there must be a spectrum of people who are on the one end people who don’t get it at all, and think they wasted their time. And on the other end, people who are totally blown away, and it’s fantastic. So I mean, how would you kind of like segment that spectrum? In terms of levels of success and results?

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, this is pretty amazing. Because we don’t collect the data, the people who sponsor us, in, in these workshops, they have the questionnaires. And then and there has, there are some criticisms at times about, maybe you spoke too long, maybe you had too many exercises, maybe this or that. But we haven’t had a failure. At this point. Due to the teaching, we go very, very simply, from the concrete to the abstract, very slowly, step by step. Now, that’s not to say that there weren’t people who didn’t get it at the end that didn’t say it. But we haven’t seen that yet. So it really is quite phenomenal. That, I’m going to say 95%. And I think that’s a little conservative, of these people get it. Now. Now, I can do it. Because it’s not, it’s not a technique that, that requires any specific talent, any kind of training, you already have everything you need to perceive, right? I mean, you see, and you hear and you you taste. And so we use these, these these avenues, these senses, and we just stimulate them in a different way. And you have the experience. And it’s a very scientific technique, three steps to begin with, then we take two away. So it ends up being a one step process

Rick Archer: that remind us of what that one step is.

Frank Kinslow: Just become aware of you feel. But in the beginning, we’re taking I don’t know where people are starting from, for instance, if you and I were to work, I wouldn’t bother with the three step, we would just go to the one step. I know, from your training and your experiences that you wouldn’t, but we we don’t know where people are starting from. So we start very physically, and we have them touch, you know, and then they pay attention to what they’re touching. But by by the beginning of the second day, we get rid of the touching, and they just allowed to experience it in the mind.

Rick Archer: As you know, with with TM, vast majority of people who learned it dropped off and don’t do it anymore. Yeah. And so what do you think your retention rate is?

Frank Kinslow: I don’t know. But I suspect it’s about the same.

Rick Archer: A lot of people drop off.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, that’s, that’s just the way it is. Yeah, I have no way of knowing that. As far as I know, none of the none of the promoters are doing that follow up, or doing that kind of research.

Rick Archer: Do you attempt to offer any kind of follow up program to reinforce people and check their experience?

Frank Kinslow: No, I don’t even offer that. And we started to do that. We were started to certify QE practitioners. It became such a headache. Now this technique is copied, like crazy. And so we had a lot of trouble policing, you know, sure, if you’re going to do this technique, don’t call it QE, you know, make your put your own name there, whatever, because they of course, they were adulterating it, right. And so we found that some of our practitioners were doing that and we spent a lot of time and money and effort just watching all of this stuff. So I just said The heck with it. Let’s make it grassroots. It goes or it doesn’t, based on the people. So then I wrote a book I called the Kinslow system. And it included all of the techniques in it all of the exercises, and additional information on how to set up your own practice group, and, and so on and so forth. So, now we just have a book that they can read. And I’m not I’m not one for cracking the whip, and you know, they’re either gonna get it and go with it or not.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So how would you answer the question of, if something is so good and beneficial and healthy and healing and restful and enjoyable and everything else? Why wouldn’t the person continue to do it? I could give us such an answer. But you’re the one who’s being interviewed. So how?

Frank Kinslow: Well, it is human nature, you know, that, first of all, it this experience is so. So immediate, so natural, so easy, that it just flabbergasted me that people wouldn’t continue. Yeah, and they can do it while they’re driving. They can do it while they’re talking while they’re cooking. You know, it’s not like they have to set this time aside. And, and even even with TM, it was so simple and beautiful. But you had to actually sit down and do it. This you can do while you’re moving around,

Rick Archer: is there an advantage to also doing some sitting

Frank Kinslow: phases? Yes, of course. And that intensifies the experience, I have what I call a 90 day program, and we have a forum on the website, website is at Kinslow There’s a forum on there, and many of the people will do the 90 Day Program. And they’ll start together. And then they’ll talk about the experiences as they go through it and that sort of thing. So it’s kind of a fun thing. But the program is not like an exercise program or a diet. It’s, we say, if it isn’t easy, and it isn’t fun, it isn’t QE and and so the 90 Day Program has to be easy and fun. And the person starting out, they sort of tailor make it, there’s so many different exercises that they can draw from that they only have to do a few of them in order to get the benefits. And one of those is suggested as a sit down technique.

Rick Archer: I know with TM one of the reasons people stop is that they introduced start introducing a lot of effort into it and they begin to strain. And then it’s unpleasant and they don’t feel like doing it anymore. So you say if it isn’t easy, it isn’t. I forget the way you phrased it but fun. If it isn’t fun, then it isn’t right. Or is it? What did you say? It isn’t QE it isn’t QE? So I mean, have you experienced that people have a tendency to muddle it up by making an effort where effort isn’t needed?

Frank Kinslow: Yes, absolutely. But it doesn’t seem to be as big a problem as as teaching TM. And because you’re focusing on a single entity, I’m Andhra or, and in this this case, you’re simply becoming aware, for instance, if we were doing a session and you were doing, you know, going to work on my shoulder that’s not moving so well. You would do QE simply by becoming aware of Eufeeling and nothing else, not going to do anything for my shoulder, okay? And, and that is very easy to see. Because as soon as you start wishing that the shoulder gets better, or, you know, wondering what the person is going to think about you, if it doesn’t work, you get that immediate feedback. And what you do is very simple just to go back to Eufeeling and experience, you feel it and not be involved in the healing at all. And in fact, that’s that’s what we you know, that’s why I don’t call it a healing technique, even though it’s promoted as such. It’s a technique to experience Eufeeling to experience pure awareness, and then come out and become aware of Eufeeling. That’s all. That’s what QE is. So when they do that, they have that idea. And they do that very quickly. They see they don’t get results person doesn’t heal. Oh, I’ll just stop. I’ll just become aware of Eufeeling now. And they do right away, like in seconds. So it they’re getting more feedback. It’s not it’s not an internal feedback, they’re getting external, more objective feedback.

Rick Archer: So you just use an example of you know, a particular situation where someone has a bad shoulder and you’re using Eufeeling to help them with their shoulder. Does Eufeeling or this whatever, you know, everything you teach, oh, it’s have such a specific adaptation, or is it you know, I mean,

Frank Kinslow: let me help you with Yeah, you said using he Eufeeling to heal the shoulder, right. You see, that implies that you’re doing something to the shoulder and you’re using you have Eufeeling to do it? That’s not how it works, okay? We become aware of Eufeeling and we’re done. We don’t do anything else after that. That’s it. But just by being in proximity to that person, and that person needing, see, you could call it sympathetic resonance, if you would, you know, if I’m angry, and I’m throwing a tantrum near you, your body will react in a negative way or in a fight or flight way. If I’m peaceful, the opposite happens when you experience Eufeeling. It’s so deep and so harmonizing, you don’t have to say, okay, shoulder heal, you don’t even have to have an intention. You don’t even have to know what’s wrong with that person. They can use, it could be an emotional concern. And they keep it to themselves. In fact, they learn this by the afternoon or the first day, we do emotional QE, the partner doesn’t tell the the initiative, the person who does the QE, what’s wrong with them, they just give them a pre and pretest of zero to 10. And then they do QE and it gets better. See, so there’s no there’s no pushing of energy, there’s no controlling, there’s no. And if nothing happens, that’s okay, too. Because many times it takes the body to three days, we’ve had people respond after a week, you know, maybe I’m thinking of one woman had tinnitus for 30 years. And she had an eight out of 10. It was just very, it bothered her a lot. It was it nothing happened. During the time she was at the workshop. Then she three days later, we heard from her and it was down to a one it just, you know, so it’s that kind of a thing.

Rick Archer: Yeah. So presumably, then, if what you’re saying is true, then when people go home from these workshops and start practicing this at home, their family members should start miraculously or not, or spontaneously covering from various problems.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And we see that Yeah. And of course, I’m developing a new workshop. It’s, it’s the the three that I have now go more deeply into experiencing Eufeeling and stillness, what we call you stillness. That is the stillness that comes while you’re out moving around as it’s it’s like pure Eufeeling outside, not inside the mind. But all around. Now I’ve gone back and I’m creating a workshop. That is simply practicing QE for the allowing the healing aspect to take place, what to experience how it works. Now, QE doesn’t do the healing. So but if you did a healing technique, if you did, healing, touch, quantum touch. Reiki, if you did QE first, that technique is going to be more efficient and more effective. And, and then, I mean, people have responded with cancer with Alzheimer’s with all sorts of problems we had, which is very interesting. Oh, and even in pets, I have to say that too. So it’s not a matter of, you know, a placebo effect here. I got an email from from a, he was Italian who read the first book, and did QE for a friend of his who had been in a wheelchair for 15 years, and could not move her hands her legs, her body, she was just just couldn’t move her head. And she was very depressed. So I did QE with her, we don’t say to her or for her, but with her. He did QE the first and he did them for five or seven minutes each time. And then he he after the third one, the third session, hurt her depression lifted. After the seventh one, she could move her hands in her legs. And then he kept doing the sessions and by the seventh team through 18 to one, she could actually get out of the chair herself and do some of her basic things. Now, you know, is everybody in a wheelchair who does QE is no, but in this case, it was what she needed to heal. So we’ve simply offering the body everything that it needs to at least the best situation for them to for the for the body to do the healing. It’ll either be able to do it or it won’t and or, or do it in part.

Rick Archer: Yeah, and you don’t want to sound too much like a miracle cure thing. You know, people throwing away their crutches but because I’m sure there are many cases where people end up dying of cancer or not getting Oh yeah, not getting out of the wheelchair and all you’re just saying if the if the particular problem can be aided by deep rest and you know, the kind of energy that this generates, then, at least you’re you’re contributing that to your you’re kind of giving it that advantage. Yeah, yeah, we’re

Frank Kinslow: giving it every chance. See, the healer doesn’t heal, the technique doesn’t heal, right. It’s this this orderliness that comes from we know pure consciousness or pure awareness. But by the time that it manifests, and we’re not giving direction to it, we’re just allowing it. There really is an intention. But it’s implied. Obviously, if someone comes to you with the cancer, then and you do QE, the implication is that you want that condition to heal. So you don’t have to do anything else. Because the more specific you are, the more limiting you are. And so QE will go after I mean, the organization, the harmony that’s created by first, the person who does QE experiences Eufeeling, then the person they’re with sympathetically settles down experiences, this Eufeeling with them, and now their body will heal, so will the other person but their body will take that and use that in the best way possible. And on a priority basis. So let’s say they have a shoulder the shoulder doesn’t respond, it might, you know, that energy that was created may go to healing cancer that’s starting to develop in the liver.

Rick Archer: Yeah, I think priority basis is important. I mean, the the body has an intelligence that is so far beyond individual intelligence that I mean, if you had to conduct your digestive process consciously, or your heart rate or any of these other things that happened, you’d be dead in seconds. So you know, there’s kind of nature’s intelligence functioning in the body. And we’re what you’re suggesting, I believe, is kind of harnessing nature’s intelligence, letting it letting it really run the show more than it. Yeah, not even harnessing that’s too strict. Yeah, that’s like you’re controlling it more like a tuning to it.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Somehow the awareness, enlivens it allows it to have its ceiling effect. Yeah. So it’s, it’s quite amazing to see the changes taking place. I mean, I discovered this technique. I don’t know in 2007, something like that. And, and I’ve been teaching it to 1000s of people all over the world, I can, or and hearing from 1000s More who just read the books. And it’s still, I’m still in awe of it. It just amazes me that this simple little shift in awareness can create so many changes so quickly, and so deeply in our lives.

Rick Archer: Yeah. Now, a lot of people who listen to the show, although everybody could use some healing, and this and that, and could use some fulfillment of their desires. And so a lot of people their real motivation is Enlightenment, or awakening. Yeah, and, and a lot and discussions such as we’ve been having my kind of elicit a few yawns, because they’re really want, they really want to get down to the real nitty gritty, and, you know, self realization, liberation, that kind of thing. And I realized that I think you’ve already said that many of your audiences are not they don’t really have that motivation. But how would you speak to those who do?

Frank Kinslow: Well, the ones who continue on to the advanced workshops actually do have that whether they know it or not. And I really like to look at it in terms of neighborly manslaughter, it’s probably the simplest paradigm or construct. And that is that we’re either fear driven, deficiency oriented, or we are driven by fullness we are aware of, we don’t feel like there’s a deficiency here. Let me let me kind of draw what I would do in the second day of a workshop, kind of draw it in the air for you. Here we have a line. And here’s pure awareness. Above that, right at that line is pure UV light, which is just pure awareness beginning to become something and then we have Eufeeling you know, the colors of the rainbow. Peace, joy, love, okay. Now, awareness of any of that is, is going to take us away from fear driven motive motivation, but let’s follow this a little bit further. So we have awareness of Eufeeling we could consider ourselves at that point in light. Alright, it’s real simple. Now,

Rick Archer: depending on how you define it,

Frank Kinslow: well, here’s the if we’re using Maslow’s hierarchy. In other words, here, we can define it this way. Let’s just say you’re not fear driven. All right, which means now that that There’s no need to go anywhere or do anything, you are simply one you feel content right where you are. This is a certain level of inner peace. I know it flies in the face of conventional thinking. And people say, Well, how long? You know, how long does it take to clear your mind and thought we can do it in seconds. You know, stop, you’re thinking in seconds, it’s

Rick Archer: Well, seconds later on our new thoughts kind of bubbling in?

Frank Kinslow: well, sure there are. But there, but the thing is, to have that awareness. Pure awareness is always there has to be right, by definition, no boundary, so it’s everywhere all the time. So just becoming aware of it. You don’t walk around in pure awareness all the time, you have that pure awareness while thoughts are going on. Alright, so that’s what we’re talking about, is this. What happens then, is there’s fear, let’s just say fear is eliminated because I’m going to refer to the Gita. Here. Krishna says, Fear is born of duality. Okay.

Rick Archer: Upanishads actually,

Frank Kinslow: Upanishads. I thought that was I was certainly a Krishna said,

Rick Archer: No he, Maharishi mentions it in the introduction of the Gita, but it’s actually from the Upanishads

Frank Kinslow: thank you very much.

Rick Archer: Don’t mean to be an intellectual snob.

Frank Kinslow: No, no, no, you’re not really I hate to misquote me. So Upanishad said, Fear is born of duality. All right. So what that means is that, of course, what is unity? Instead of looking at duality, before we look at that, what is unity? Well, it’s awareness of unboundedness. Okay. That’s what we have when we have awareness of Eufeeling. Now, when we lose experience or awareness of Eufeeling now we separate, we have this too. We have, I am. And it is, and right, as soon as we lose awareness of Eufeeling, I’m not going to say pure awareness, because it doesn’t even have to. The pure awareness is integrated in Eufeeling so it’s, it’s lively within there, but it’s not dominant. Okay, in that awareness. So when we’re aware of Eufeeling, we’re at peace, we’re full, we’re content, we don’t have any, we’re not worried about paying the bills, we’re not worried about, you know, what’s going on with the relationship. Now, lose awareness of Eufeeling. And now we have this emptiness, it says, it says, something is wrong. In fact, you probably many people in their lives will say, you know, is this all there is to life, you know, there’s something missing. Of course, that’s something missing is awareness of Eufeeling or it’s very fine state. When we lose that, now we have that emptiness. And what do we do, we tried to fill it with things, we put things in there, like new cars, and, and money and, and relationships, and so on and so forth. Okay. Now, there we are fear driven. Those are what Maslow calls the the survival needs and the self esteem needs, okay, psychological needs and the physical needs. And, and those are all the fear driven ones. And then once an individual becomes aware of Eufeeling now, they they settle into that wholeness, they now become what he calls a Transcender. And now, with the people take my workshops, they have this experience, and they will hold it oh, by the way, remind me to tell you about the research that we’re doing on this. The they hold this for long periods of time, while they’re moving around with their eyes open?

Rick Archer: Do they make an effort to hold it or

Frank Kinslow: no

Rick Archer:  It sponaneously is held.

Frank Kinslow: spontaneous, it has to be effortless.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: Now, now, given their inner group, right, so it helps when they leave, it’s a little harder. And I wouldn’t say harder is that they get knocked around a little bit, right, right, on the rocky shores of relativity. But while they are there, they are experiencing this and the research is, is backing this up, we’re we’re, we’ve just done several workshops who have data we’ve collected so we’ll be be explaining that later. And so we actually have an experience of Enlightenment in the workshops, and they can duplicate it at home, if they choose to. It’s simply by not trying to do anything.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: As soon as you stop trying to do anything. You’re there it is, it’s all the trying of the effort that oh, I’m going to become Enlightenment. Now, what do I do? There’s not a damn thing you can do to become enlightened. You see. So this simple technique takes care of all of it. It gets the mind out of the way it gets the emotions out of the way. Remember devotion and intellect and physical We just throw that all out and simply experience it. And that’s it.

Rick Archer: I hesitate to use the word Enlightenment actually, because it has this sort of superlative static connotation, you know, you really finally reached the end of all possible evolutionary stages or something. And, and then, and then when you say, Okay, well, you can just have experience Enlightenment, and then and then even in the first few days of something like this, it kind of sounds like you’re defining it differently. And

Frank Kinslow: yeah,

Rick Archer: You know. And people do define it differently, which is one of the reasons I hesitate to use it, because it’s like, Tower of Babel kind of thing, where you’re actually referring to something very different using the same term. And so communication isn’t taking place.

Frank Kinslow: Well, exactly why I use the term Eufeeling, because nobody knows what that means. So when they come to it, they haven’t already got a preconceived idea of what this is. But some people might want to call it the soul, the spirit, you know, whatever, unbounded awareness, whatever,

Rick Archer: but it has a feeling, obviously, the word feeling is in there. So it has, you’re saying that there is a something that is felt. It’s not it’s not something abstract or metaphysical. It’s something you actually there’s an innate, intrinsic deep sense of well being that we can tap into. And

Frank Kinslow: yes, yes, but remember the you before and it’s just true and true means unchanging?

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: So ultimately, the feeling is produced, like, like, the colors are produced from the white light. And so to the undisciplined mind. They experience it right away as a Eufeeling. Okay? Remember, pure Eufeeling does has no feeling to it at all

Rick Archer: right

Frank Kinslow: Just as is the experience? I am aware of nothing. When we experienced pure awareness, it’s like you don’t know it until you come out and then say, oh, there was a gap there. Right?

Rick Archer: Can you experience an unchanging thing intermittently?

Frank Kinslow: Well, yes, of course, you’re, you’re from awareness. You know, if you get great pain, you become angry or something like that, you get shaken from it, and then it’s always there. But that doesn’t mean that we’re always aware of it.

Rick Archer: Yeah. I think that’s an important distinction. Because some people say, well, that which comes and goes is not the reality. So anything you have experienced, intermittently or temporarily, wasn’t it. But you know,

Frank Kinslow: everything exists, there is nothing that that comes and goes ultimately,

Rick Archer: Right

Frank Kinslow: All right?

Rick Archer: but our experience of it?

Frank Kinslow: Well, now, now, now, what you’re doing is you’re putting things into boxes, and you’re saying, Well, this thing is unbounded. And if you experience that it’s real. Well, who is experiencing the unbounded? You can’t have that you see, that’s that it’s not logical. You can’t say okay, you can you you can experience something that’s unbounded. Otherwise, it’s not true. There is no experiencer. So, so that logic falls apart very quickly. And we have to, we have to be very practical I do with working with the people that I work with. Because they don’t have this, this deep. You know, esoteric background for the most part. Now the ones that too, I’m really happy with. But we draw more, we’re drawing more and more scientists now. In fact, I just met with Raman this song who’s a French physicist, he’s he’s got over 10 international awards and 15 or 16 international patents in his field. He thinks that this work is is phenomenal. He likened it to the to that which Pauli was, you know, expera was researching and, and not Erich Fromm.

Rick Archer: Pauli was physicist right? Wolfgang Pauli.

Frank Kinslow: yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he got I think he got the academy where he got the

Rick Archer: He got the Oscar for Best Physicist.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah.

Rick Archer: Nobel Prize?

Frank Kinslow: 45 Nobel Prize. Yeah. And he was one of the original, he was a, I looked him up, you know, I had read his stuff. Before I already was German, he was actually Austrian. But he was really the original founders of quantum mechanics, right? So this physicists to a is seeing that, you know, there’s no dogma here, there’s no trappings it’s, it’s just a common everyday experience, that as long as you have a system, you won’t have the experience, or you will have it and you’ll you’ll say that the system did it for me. And then you’re relying on that system. And so what we’re saying here is this is a common natural state, that not that you can have in the future, but you can have now well, okay, if you shift your awareness away from that, if it shifts away from that, it doesn’t mean that nothing is not there. It just means that your awareness is not with it.

Rick Archer: Right.

Frank Kinslow: And And now, back to Enlightenment, which, which I stay away from, unless I get a chance to build it up and define exactly what Enlightenment is. But I agree with you. It’s so misunderstood and you get, yes 10 gurus, what Enlightenment is you’ll get 10 different answers, okay? For me Enlightenment is when you’re no longer fear driven when you are at peace, when you are free, that doesn’t mean that that you will, this this exalted state where it’s permanent, I don’t know, of too many people who have really reached that state, it’s certainly in my experience, something that is, is so far out there that it creates so much frustration, and so much effort to reach, right.

Rick Archer: Well, so but I mean, in your own experience, I’m quite sure that there is something that is quite exalted and very permanent. It’s not like you kind of snap back to the 1968 Frank every now and then and, or, you know, stay there most of the time, and then somehow catapult into some exalted sublime state. I mean, there must be a sort of a continuum, or an undercurrent or even

Frank Kinslow: it’s always there.

Rick Archer: Yeah,

Frank Kinslow: It’s always there. And anytime, and this is what I’m, this is what I’m talking about with the students. It’s always there, they just initially have to make an effort to find it to become aware of it. And they do that by not making an effort. Okay, they just have to say, Okay, now I’m going to become aware. And they are,

Rick Archer: yeah, movie screen is always there.

Frank Kinslow: Right. So. So what they what we do then, is they just become aware of it in different circumstances while they’re moving around. Now, does that mean that they’re not enlightened? Well, some people would say yeah they’re enlightened, they just don’t know it? Well, as far as I’m concerned, you know, if there’s suffering, you make all that Enlightenment, but it still doesn’t help the suffering,

Rick Archer:  it kind of cheapens the term.

Frank Kinslow: It does. On the other hand, saying that you have this state all the time, is, it can be taken two ways. One, you’re always aware of it. So you, you become the slow walking, slow talking, you know, kind of individual, which rarely happens.

Rick Archer: Well, now hang on, it’s unfair to sort of characterize it as the spiritual stereotype of slow walking slow talking Om Shanti, you know, kind of thing. I mean, there are people who are establishing pure awareness, very solidly, 24/7 throughout even the deepest sleep, who, for all external appearances are normal folks doing normal things having jobs, you know, so, you know, we don’t know,

Frank Kinslow: that’s the point I’m making

Rick Archer: We don’t want to paint a caricature of enlightenment

Frank Kinslow: No no, that’s the point I’m making. It is, it is the idea that when you become enlightened, you become slow walking and talking

Rick Archer: Yeah, that’s, that’s nonsense. That’s just

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, it is.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: So so what happens is, is with my definition of Enlightenment here is that we still have anger, we still have sadness, we still have all of these human emotions. But we have them on this, this beautiful bed of stillness,

Rick Archer: that’s a good definition.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. And so we become more human. Or, to further the analogy, we, we begin playing our own music, you know, every now this is, this is the way I feel about it. I think that each of us when we play our own music, when we are not fear driven, and, and trying to do what’s right, or trying to get something, when we’re content, let’s say with where we are, we, we create a harmony, that that allows others to do the same thing. And, and this, this fullness of time, have harmony between people is is what’s you know, it’s what, what needs to be built, and it and it only starts with it, of course, this is not something when you start playing your own music, you will be unique. So you can’t have a goal. You know, you can’t I’m sorry, you can’t have someone that you look up to and emulate, and try to become like them, then you’ve sold yourself out.

Rick Archer: Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: So So my feeling is that when you experience Eufeeling and then you watch it, just do your daily activity. And and you’ll find that very quickly. Things that you you really thought were important to you will start to fade away or you won’t be Doing, you’ll be more resistant to other people’s ideas that you know, are not working for you, and so on. And so you play this, this inner music, this beautiful music that you are, and it starts to add to the harmony of the symphony rather than these off key, you know, oh, I just got to get this, I’ve got to get this much money now, according to Maslow. And I agree, I think from my own experiences working with people who come to the workshops, about 98% of the population of the world is fear driven. And that means that that influence of disharmony is very strong. Now, how do you overcome that? Well, of course, you know, in the TM movement, we got together and did the siddhis. And we, we did the crime study. You know, the crime studies and those sorts of things. And we know that there’s power in Unity. So

Rick Archer: crime studies, meaning that it was seen that crime rates dropped, and when large groups practice,

Frank Kinslow: yeah,

Rick Archer: together, yeah.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. So, but if we can’t do that on our own, you know, like, you go, you, sorry, my nose is just itching, and I think I’m allergic to something in your home there. Yeah, you got a dog, we got to. So anyhow, smellivision, the smellivision Exactly, we have got a we have a need, you feel your knows that? Yes, we have this, this, this need to be alone, to find ourselves, not lonely, but alone, to find ourselves, and then get out there and start testing the music playing and allowing others to hear it. And, and that can only be done be done individually. And so you know, when and this is one of the reasons I don’t crack the whip with the people who do QE, once they leave the workshop, they’re pretty much on their own, you’ll get a bigger percentage than 98% of Fallout, I mean, you’ll get lesser percentage, you’ll probably I don’t know what the percentage would be. But they will not rely on me, they don’t need me anymore. They don’t need my books, they don’t need anything they have already the ability to be with themselves and be content. Now what they need to do is just test it just just keep doing it. inactivity while they’re in their daily lives.

Rick Archer: True, but I think there’s something to be said for strength in numbers and having kind of a peer you know, hanging out with the right people, so to speak, you know, associating with people who are similarly motivated, and so that we can reinforce one another. Certainly all the traditional texts, place great emphasis on this, you know, the, the benefits of the company of the enlightened and so on. You know, if you hang out in bars, and are with drug addicts, or something all the time, unless you’re there to help them. Chances are, it’s not going to have the same influence as if you hang out with people whose motivation is spirituality, higher consciousness, Enlightenment, that kind of thing.

Frank Kinslow: No doubt about it. But you can’t hang out in that community is pretty rare. All the time. Now, Fairfield would be an excluded from that. But basically, we are out there. If there’s 98% of the world that is disharmonious, then we’re basically hanging out and we need a technology. That’s going to be easy and effortless and fun.

Rick Archer: Yeah, you need to do it yourself thing. I mean, you don’t want to be reliant on somebody else all the time for anything.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. And we do have now the also thing about doing QE is you can do it at a distance you don’t have to be hands on. So we have groups, people doing groups and certainly falling in line with what you just just stated.

Rick Archer: Incidentally, those who are listening on the live stream, if any, if any of this is unclear to anybody, you furrowing your brow, or scratching your head, just go to the upcoming interviews page and fill out that form at the bottom of the page and on And you can post a question. One thing I’m wondering about is some you know, you use the word quantum entrainment and as I understand it, you got quite interested in quantum physics and you see a correlation between quantum physics and the kind of thing you’re talking about. There are some physicists who really bothered by that, you know, and they, they kind of take exception to people like John Hagelin and min Catholicos and others who are trying to say that there is some, you know, that the unified feet There’s consciousness so that there is some connection between the deepest understandings of quantum physics and, and spirituality. So have you grappled with that objection at all?

Frank Kinslow: Not to any great degree, as you know, mainstream science is pretty dogmatic, pretty narrow minded. And so that doesn’t bother me. There are those incredible beings who are sort of on the cusp, you know, it still haven’t been thrown out. I was, I was, I was with a physicist just recently. And we were talking and he said, If my society or if they he was at a universities teaching at a university, a professor? Well, I would say where he said, If they knew what we were talking about, they throw me out, you know, and it’s just that so I’m not too concerned about that. I just received a paper from God, I’ll think of his name in a moment. It Penrose, the Roger mathematician, yeah. On consciousness. Now, I went through it quickly to look at it. And I can see it’s gonna take me two or three months to digest it. But here is, you know, a world renowned scientist and mathematician who is talking about science or consciousness as being a part of a necessary part of,

Rick Archer: yeah, a lot of and a lot of scientists are doing that I go to a conference every fall and called the Science and non duality conference out in California, which, you know, assembles a whole lot of people, you know, from spiritual and scientific communities, and they interface and so this, but it’s definitely a small percentage of the general scientific. Yeah. Yeah, some great scientists, I forget who put it you know, science progresses by a series of funerals. The truth? is a question that came in from Elizabeth in Boulder, Colorado, she said, she asks, aside from the different names you have coined, Eufeeling, et cetera, how is your system? How are your techniques different from classical spiritual traditions? Or are you repurposing traditional techniques for a modern audience?

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, the ladder. As I said, before, I’ve removed all the dogma, I’ve removed as much as I can, all of the the trappings the the things that you must do. I don’t teach it as a spiritual technique. That word is very rarely used in my workshops, until we get into the higher worship, but certainly not in the basic work. I’m introducing the people to their, quote, spiritual selves, again, like Enlightenment, a word that needs definition. But, but not calling it that. And, and because I can do that, I can do that. Because this because it is natural for every one of us to have that experience, intimately and immediately, there’s no need to practice years or even hours. It can be had because it is a natural experience built into us, I don’t know. It could be 70,000 years ago, when we, when we, you know, had this, this flash of insight and became self aware. It may have came with us at that point. But yeah, Elizabeth, this is, this is simply a bare bones, spiritual technique, which has some advantages. And immediate feedback. What I’ve done is a person who walks in, if they’re looking for spiritual growth, they have something that they can, they can do, ie, the healing work, that actually enhances or greatly expands the spiritual or, let’s say, their awareness, let’s talk in terms of awareness rather than spiritual. So, whether they know it or not, in the beginning, there, the simple awareness of Eufeeling is is a form of Enlightenment. What and as they do that, the things they report back to me will fit very neatly into the, quote, seven, seven levels of Enlightenment that that sei has laid out. So yeah, it’s, it’s not a rehashing. You’re not going to change anything. Awareness is awareness, but our access to it is made is made instantaneous. Once we set it up, it’s instantaneously and then it sticks with you. And I have to say to the use stillness word, which is the awareness of stillness, or non movement, in all things that all the time, that is the most effortless of all, when once they are taught that technique, it states they don’t even have to try to have

Rick Archer: one of my operating principles in doing this show is just the underlying opinion or attitude or understanding that God is not a one trick pony. And that, that, you know, there are almost as many paths to God as there are people, you know, each person has their own makeup, their own orientation, their own, you know, gifts, and some are like you said, Five paths are there, some people are more intellectual, some are more devotional, some might, you know, be good at yoga or whatever. And so, you know, my attitude is, you know, whether you want to chant Hari Krishna or, you know, get deeply into Christianity or practice what you’re teaching or, you know, become a strict non duelist or something, you know, more power to you give it a try. If it works for you, great. If it ceases to work, then then move on to something else.

Frank Kinslow: Well, no, here’s, here’s the beauty about what I’m talking about here. The QE is not an either or. Right. You know,

Rick Archer: you can do QE supplemental to other things.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, you do QE. And basically, QE remember, is, is how do we go from common consciousness everyday, fear driven awareness, to inner peace, or basically I say, QE is how to go from common consciousness through pure awareness to Eufeeling now, once you’ve done that, anything else you do is going to be done more effective. So my instruction is always do QE first and then go on. And, you know, from there sounds familiar,

Rick Archer: does. In light of what I just said, it’s kind of funny in a way because, you know, a lot a lot of people in the spiritual world don’t have that kind of attitude that I just expressed, and you’d be surprised how adamant people can get about their particular path or their particular flavor, you know, like, you know, such and such a teacher has got the answers everybody else is off the beam. They don’t let

Frank Kinslow: me let me give you a quote here. I love this one. And this one I know is accurate issue on the shot. I might even get the verse I think it’s 17 or 90. It says that those attached to the spiritual world or damn love it, those are attached to the material world are doubly damn Yeah. or words to that effect?

Rick Archer: Well, is what the another interpretation of that versus into blinding darkness go those who are attached to ignorance, I think it is in and into even greater darkness go those who are attached to the knowledge some such thing I might Yeah,

Frank Kinslow: same words, depends on I guess, the translation, but simply said, you won’t get more dogmatic let’s say ignorance, ignorant of fullness, people, then you will those attached to a spiritual path. Yeah. Now, that doesn’t mean that people who are practicing are ignorant or attached to it. But it means that those who are are harder to move than a guy who sits in front of the tube with a can of beer and some chips and watching the game, he is more likely to shake free of his ignorance. And someone who thinks they’re on the right path thinks that no matter what even my suffering is getting me closer. So as the suffering increases, they feel, you know that they encourage it because they feel it is actually beneficial for some spiritual reason or other.

Rick Archer: I think this pertains to what you were saying earlier about fear, you know, I think that there’s an innate human need for, for kind of a solid, stable foundation in life. And most people find themselves just adrift, you know, not without that foundation. And so they, they kind of latch on to something and attempt to make it absolute, to in order to fulfill that need for something stable and non changing. And unfortunately, they generally latch on to something relative, and they try to make it absolute, and therefore it clashes with every other relative thing from their perspective. Of course,

Frank Kinslow: even even the technique itself is attaching to the technique, and in an effort to eventually experience quote, Enlightenment, or even a flash of it. And that’s where we have an advantage here is you experience it right away. So it breaks down. All of those fears. All of those concerns about can I actually do Do QE and still be a Christian or be a Buddhist or whatever? Right? You know? It? It’s so I guess it was, you could draw an analogy between that and exercising for crying out loud, you know, can I still exercise and be a Buddhist or a Christian? You know, it’s neither, it’s it just doesn’t work as if there’s no conflict,

Rick Archer: right? I agree. Because it’s non doctrinal and non denominational, it’s just an experience. Well, and I still breathe and be a Christian, you know,

Frank Kinslow: and that’s much more succinctly. The thing is that we don’t have to sit down to do this, right? We can do it, you know, while we’re, you might think, Well, okay, I’m a Buddhist, I’m going to do my eight Buddhist technique, and then I’ll do QE, and then I’ll do the Buddhist know, you can do QE, while you’re after your practice, while you’re making a su foot sleuthing. Play thanks. Or, you know, taking the dog for a walk, right? So, so we’re not limited to a meditation period. It’s just simply becoming aware of fullness throughout the day, wherever you are.

Rick Archer: So most of what you teach is available for free in your books, and others. Some things you can download on YouTube, I believe. So the things for which you do charge money? What do people get? What do people learn? And what do they pay for those things? And after that, another question has come in from London, which I’ll post,

Frank Kinslow: okay, well. Well, I have tried to make it, it meaning QE available, and all of the techniques you can get from the book, so you’re gonna have to pay for the book, or borrow it from somebody. I mean,

Rick Archer: but book is are negligible in terms of cost, you know, like a weekend seminar that you give, or how much do they cost?

Frank Kinslow: That’s going to be I don’t know, in euros would it would be in the States, it’s almost the same thing. That will vary with the country, they set the prices, but it wouldn’t be less than 300 euros for the weekend. So say, I don’t know what, three and a quarter $350 for

Rick Archer: the weekend. If 400 people show up, that’s gonna be pretty good money.

Frank Kinslow: Not bad. Not bad. And I told you I was in deep debt. When this thing happened. I was actually after.

Rick Archer: That’s 120,000 euros.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. And that’s only one workshop, you get that? You know, and then it’s one to two days worship. But you remember, I was huge. I had a huge debt. When when I discovered this process, and I didn’t worry about I was worried about money to how an earth could I after all of my, my spiritual studies and practices and my experiences, how on earth could it be worried about money at 61 years of age? What that doesn’t make sense. And when I discovered the process, I got so totally involved in in teaching it and spreading it that the finances took care of themselves. And that’s how it works. Yeah.

Rick Archer: There’s one objection that people with a TM background might bring up, which is that, you know, they might feel that you’re kind of just converting TM slightly and cashing in on it in a way. But I mean, I could defend that myself. And because you use similar analogies, pulling the arrow back on the bow and the ocean analogy and some things you learned as a TM teacher. But, you know, I also feel like what you’re teaching is quite different in terms of its mechanics. And there are going to be some similarities between all spiritual teachings, because they’re all fathoming the same, you know, territory. Yeah. So but is there anything you’d like to say in defense? Or in response to that opposition, if it does come up?

Frank Kinslow: Well, I have to say that Maharishi was an incredible influence, probably the strongest influence in my life, for organizing and allowing me to experience the harmony of life there. Now I, I mean this mostly in terms of the science of creative intelligence, and I draw heavily from those principles, and by teaching i The more I delve into them, the more I find that they’re accurate, even with a totally new system.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And he drew heavily by the way from older generations.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, exactly. And we’re talking about pure awareness. I think it’s pure conscious. And I’ve even forgotten some of the terms that we use. You know, that doesn’t belong to any particular way of looking at life. I am not teaching monitoring meditation. I mean, it’s a person section as opposed to just simply look at something a certain way, and you have an experience. So you’re right, the mechanics of what I’m teaching are different. But it will sound similar because I am drawing heavily from what Maharishi taught in terms of SCI, I don’t think that’s patented. Or registered. You know, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s in books, you can find it in anywhere you read. I am that from Nisargadatta. And you’ve got the basics there. In fact, the, the basics for QE, I found in there the basic item that works and I’m that Yeah. Okay, so, so it’s your right, it’s every discipline has some piece of this. I feel quite content that I’m not and I was very, very, very concerned about this. In the beginning, I mean, being totally devoted. I taught almost 900 people. Qe one, I mean, TM one at a time, you know, we had a very active senator, and my wife taught another, probably 600 or so. So we’re totally devoted to that system for as long as we were in it, and there was nothing I would want to do to, you know, diminish its importance or in any way, adulterate that system. But QE is completely different. It’s a totally different system.

Rick Archer: Okay, good. Here’s a good question that came in a real obvious one. Someone asked, this is Tara from London? She asked, Is it possible to give a taste of how Eufeeling feels now during this interview? Can you walk us through some kind of exercise?

Frank Kinslow: Ah, well, that might take a little dead air.

Rick Archer: That’s all right. If there’s some dead air, I mean, if even if, even if there’s two, three minutes of dead air here and there, I mean, people are watching this thing they could you could guide them through it?

Frank Kinslow: Well, what we could do is we could experience pure awareness pretty quickly. But that is not QE, we really, first of all have to experience pure awareness, then we experience Eufeeling. And then we then we actually start doing becoming aware of Eufeeling an activity, that takes a little bit more

Rick Archer: development, maybe we can do the pure awareness thing. And then there are some things I think you can download off your YouTube channel that where you could actually walk them through some of the other things.

Frank Kinslow: Oh, yeah, I might, Tara, I would suggest that you download the pure awareness technique. It’s free on the Kinslow System website. That is, that will walk you through the what you need to do to become aware of Eufeeling. But that will take approximately 20 minutes, which I’m sure we won’t have time to do here. Yeah. And then once you have Eufeeling you’ll be that much more at home with with the technique of triangulation, which is the basic QE technique.

Rick Archer: Okay. So rather than try to do it right now, people can just go to Kinslow, and download things and just be guided through them. Right there.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. And that would probably be the best thing. Although if you want to experience pure awareness quickly, I mean, really quickly. It’s, uh, if we could do this simple exercise.

Rick Archer: Just for fun. Let’s do that. Yeah. All right.

Frank Kinslow: So what you want to do is you want to look down, I don’t know, whatever is down, if you’re sitting at your lap, if you’re standing, it’s the floor or your feet. So you look down and pay attention to what you see there. Now look up at the ceiling. Now what was in your mind, from the time you looked at your look down to the time you looked up?

Rick Archer: Well, I’m seeing my keyboard. I’m seeing knot holes in the ceiling.

Frank Kinslow: So what was in mind between those two?

Rick Archer: As I went up, or content or in or during both of those? I mean, there’s desk there’s camera there’s wall, there’s knot holes.

Frank Kinslow: Look, look a little faster,

Rick Archer: I’m a tough nut to crack

Frank Kinslow: and look down. Well, yeah, you’re beating this thing to death. You’re into like, let’s just look down and look. What’s there?

Rick Archer: Well, awareness both times

Frank Kinslow: not Yeah, nothing is there. Right. Okay. If your awareness, you have awareness of something, you then you look at something else is there, you know, it’s, it’s everywhere all the time, we’re told that, but we think we have to go into some deep meditative state to experience it. Now, that was just a flash of it. But it has its value. And another exercise that you could do, which had, I can’t remember where this was, I think Shiva Sutras or something like that. When you start to do something like reach for something on your desk, and then stop and pay attention to what you feel or what what happens? And in that moment that you stop, there’s pure awareness? Is he getting up from your chair, you start to get up and stop. So what was there 112 ways to print Do you know where that’s from 112 ways to transcend that could be Shiva today.

Rick Archer: I believe it is Shiva Sutras. Yeah,

Frank Kinslow: I think so. And somebody challenged me on that. But I couldn’t prove it

Rick Archer: actually habit someplace, I think. Yeah,

Frank Kinslow: I think Paul Ritz is Zen flesh and bones, he’s got a copy of it. But anyhow, it this is not, this is not something you have to study. Or you have to twist in, you know, into some weird posture. Those are all. It’s just there, this perception is available. Every all the time, 24 hours a day. Well, except for when you’re sleeping and dreaming. It’s also but we start when we’re where we are with our awareness. So

Rick Archer: I think the objection that some people might have is, yeah, fine. I’m always aware, I acknowledge that I’m aware of my desk, I’m aware of my kids, I’m aware of my job, but whatever I’m driving, I’m aware of the road. So I can, I can acknowledge that awareness is over there is always there. But I don’t. I don’t, it’s not isolated, and pure in and of itself. In other words, there sees I must be aware of because I’m seeing all this stuff. Well, but but I’m not aware of awareness itself. And all this stuff is impinging on me so much that I always feel overwhelmed or overshadowed to some Excel,

Frank Kinslow: that’s, that’s where QE comes in. But before we do, we have a simple exercise we can do with wareness thing. But let me just make this point. That’s where QE comes in. It’s, it’s how to slip out of this. And, and experience, experiences, very quiet state. Now it only you know, during the day, and, and it may come for two, three seconds may come for two, three minutes doesn’t matter. It has a very, very powerful stabilizing effect. When you’re doing an activity. When you do it with eyes closed, sitting down, it’s even even even more powerful. But in either case, you start to realize that you’re never away from it. Let’s try this exercise. Become aware of the fact that you’re whatever you’re doing. Become aware that you’re watching yourself doing. Okay. Now become aware of the watcher. That creates, it’s, we always say, Yeah, I’m aware, I’m aware of what I’m doing. But when you become aware of that, which is where it creates that stillness, it creates that, that openness, it creates a stamp, if you will, while the activity goes on. So if you were to do that, and then every time you found yourself, being pulled back into the oh, I’m aware of activity, then watch, then watch the watcher. Keep doing that alone, in just a few minutes, you’ll find a very deep sense of peace and contentment. Coming

Rick Archer: Yeah, although that could get into the old guru, Jeff Uspensky thing where people are trying to remember the self and they start, they don’t speak fluently, because remember the self and I can say a word Naga. Remember the cell, you know, it really has to get more stable and integrated, so that you don’t have to give it a second thought. But it’s very much

Frank Kinslow: you see that that requires doing and, and here’s that here would be my instruction, if you were just to do this exercise, watching the watcher, if you were just to do that, just do it when you become aware that you’re not doing not trying to hold on to it, not trying to do anything else. But let’s just do it quickly. Again, you’re aware of what you know, you’re listening to me or watching me. Now, you’re aware of that now become aware of that which is aware. Now you don’t have to hold on to it. It’s not the instruction, just become aware of it. And you can do it this way, become aware of it for two, three seconds, then let it go out and watch to see what happens. I see now what will happen is eventually you’ll go back to activity, nothing wrong with that. But just that stepping out of it like that, and without effort without trying. So we’re not going to get into any anything else except this effortless of becoming aware. Whenever you you realize that you’re not aware of

Rick Archer: Yeah, as long as it doesn’t have spoil the spontaneity of your behavior.

Frank Kinslow: Well, it’s a technique that you’ll be doing. So it’s going to it’s going to stop you for a moment, but in time, that won’t happen. So initially that will interact with spontaneity, but it’s it’s only for a second or two or three and usually when you become aware of it, it’s that quiet time Yeah, you might be driving your car, you might be looking at, you know, nature or something like that. So it wouldn’t be at a more accurate time. The more accurate time would come later, but that would be spontaneous.

Rick Archer: Yeah. And this could vary. Actually, this could very well actually be what Ramana Maharshi was for referring to his self inquiry?

Frank Kinslow: I don’t know. I couldn’t say for sure. Yeah.

Rick Archer: But just not not so much. An intellectual who am I kind of process but more like, just a gentle introspection of noticing? You know, the Wow. Yeah.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah, yeah. I think by itself, there’s not enough feedback, a positive feedback. It’s more of an intellectual thing, Oh, I did it. You will tend to start to feel quieter, but I don’t think enough quickly enough for most people to continue that process. When we do QE, when we become aware of Eufeeling that, that has a stronger, it has an emotional hook, and not an emotional, but a feeling attached to it. That’s very nice. And so even psychologically, you want to revisit it more often. Yeah, it’s built into it.

Rick Archer: Okay, so What haven’t we covered that you want to make sure to say before we conclude?

Frank Kinslow: Well, for for those of your listeners, or viewers, if you’re interested in the basic technique, I’d start with a book called The Secret of instant healing. It’s very simple. It’s, it introduces the three step triangulation process. But if you really want to get to the nitty gritty, then pick up a copy of when nothing works, try doing nothing. That that’s my, that there deals with becoming aware of stillness. inactivity, and it’s, it’s a very freeing very beautiful, not beautiful, it’s just jarring in in in so jarring in the sense that that it’s so strong in its completeness, or fullness, that it tends to be jarring in the beginning. Oh my gosh, there’s nothing. And that’s for the more hardcore spiritual oriented people. Have them give that one to spin.

Rick Archer: Okay, great. And then there’s the Kinslow, And an all sorts of resources you can find on there. You mentioned a blog where people are chatting about this stuff and

Frank Kinslow: a forum or I have a blog and a forum, the forum would be the chat part,

Rick Archer: right? Good. So I’ll have a page for you, as usual on with links to whatever is significant, like your website, and to your books. And if people feel so inclined, they can explore it.

Frank Kinslow: Well, Rick, this has been a lot of fun, actually, kind of a trip down memory lane. I really haven’t hobnobbed with someone who’s been in the movement and been establishing the movement for quite some time.

Rick Archer: And I’m not either anymore, but I was for 25 years.

Frank Kinslow: Yeah. So I mean, obviously, it has its impacted, it makes it so it’s impression. And, you know, I and I’ve gotten a chance to think about how, how deeply Maharishi has penetrated into my thinking. And it also gives me a chance to compare and contrast, which I haven’t done since the very beginning of this process. So yeah, your questions, I have to say, were very, you know, extremely penetrating and gave me a chance to bring out a good part of the teaching.

Rick Archer: Great. And I would say, you know, that old saying the proof of the pudding is in the eating. That it’s the seems to me that the popularity of what you’ve been doing, must speak for its efficacy. You know, you wouldn’t be getting all these hundreds of people to show up for things if they weren’t getting some benefit, and you know, or maybe they’d show up the first time and nobody would be at the other ones. So the fact remains popular says something,

Frank Kinslow: I do want to say this and I’m sorry, this is in Europe and Asia in the United States. You don’t even have workshops we you know, we for some reason, there’s just not much interest. So unfortunately we do have webinars right so one can take the basic stuff but in the United States you know just hasn’t isn’t take as this is very strange, but

Rick Archer: there you have it, a profit is not without honor, except in his own home.

Frank Kinslow: Well, I’d like to think my home was like here in Florida and consider soda rather than all the US.

Rick Archer: Okay, great. So let me make a few concluding remarks. I’ve been speaking with Frank Kinslow discover The Quantum entrainment and founder of the Kinslow system, as you’ve learned from the discussion, this is part of an ongoing series, this interview show. If you’d like to be notified each time a new interview is posted, go to And sign up for the email notification, you’ll get one about once a week. There’s also an audio podcast and we’re still having problems with that a lot of people are getting it okay. But a lot of people, they go on iTunes and try to sign up for it. And they’re told it doesn’t exist anymore. So I don’t know what’s going on within Apple is very slow to respond, but we’re trying to work it out. We’ll get it fixed. And there is what there’s a past interviews menu on, where all the interviews are categorized in four or five different ways. Check that out. There’s an upcoming interviews page, which you probably know about if you’re watching the live streaming, but it shows you what we’ve got scheduled. There’s also a suggested guest page. But we haven’t been taking new suggestions for quite a while now and will eventually start taking them probably later this year. Just because there’s such a backlog already to work through. And there’s the donate button. So if you feel like helping support this, please donate in whatever amount is comfortable to you. So thanks for listening or watching and we’ll see you next week. Thanks, Frank. Good talking to you.

Frank Kinslow: All right, Rick. Yeah, well done. Thanks so much.

Rick Archer: Thank you