482.2 Ethics and Spiritual Teaching Panel at the Science and Nonduality Conference

  • Questioning whether higher consciousness and ethical behavior are tightly correlated.
  • The founding of
    the Association for Spiritual Integrity (formerly the Association of Professional Spiritual Teachers).
  • The attempt to formulate a code of ethics that might apply universally in the contemporary spiritual community and enliven an understanding of what may or may not be appropriate, giving students greater confidence in their own discernment and discrimination.
  • Ancient traditions held the teacher beyond reproach and students surrendered their own will. This may have worked in monastic settings but generally does not work today.
  • Preventative support so we’re not busy doing cleanup.
  • Power hierarchies should not be an essential part of spiritual development and can lead to abuses.
  • Spiritual awakening does not necessarily qualify a person to offer advice on relationships, finances, etc.
  • Ethical training of some sort is integral to most honored traditions.
  • The issue of sexism and patriarchy in spiritual organizations.
  • Entering the teaching profession prematurely.
  • All too often, when teachers are challenged on their behavior, they ignore the challenger or become defensive.
  • How do we offer the possibility for redemption and atonement?
  • Moving away from a culture of competition to one of cooperation.
  • The importance of humility.
  • The importance of teachers not identifying with their role and thinking that students’ devotion is about them.
  • South Africa’s “Truth and Reconciliation” as a model.

Discussion of this panel in the BatGap Community Facebook Group.

Transcript of this discussion

Recorded October 27, 2018

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

  • 00:00:00 – The Disconnect Between Higher States of Consciousness and Ethical Behavior
  • 00:02:15 – Developing a Universal Code of Ethics
  • 00:04:11 – Creating Ethical Standards for Spiritual Teachers
  • 00:06:04 – The Purpose of Spirituality
  • 00:08:05 – Redesigning the Future of Spirituality
  • 00:10:46 – Healing and Support
  • 00:12:55 – Education and Growth as a Community
  • 00:14:36 – The Importance of Addressing Abusive Power
  • 00:17:01 – Opening up to Questions and Collaboration
  • 00:19:03 – The Usefulness of CPE for Spiritual Teachers
  • 00:20:34 – The Importance of Boundaries and Power Dynamics in Communities
  • 00:22:31 – The Importance of Ethical Development in Spiritual Practice
  • 00:25:03 – The Healing Power of Community
  • 00:27:06 – Cedar Barstow: The Right Use of Power in Spirituality
  • 00:29:03 – Equal Gender Representation
  • 00:31:41 – The prevalence of gender imbalance and abuse in the community
  • 00:34:07 – Moving beyond collective conditioning
  • 00:36:31 – The Perpetual Debate on Relationships and Ethics
  • 00:38:41 – The Spiritual Aspect of Trauma
  • 00:40:39 – The Deep Desire Within
  • 00:42:28 – Empowering Students and Demanding Accountability
  • 00:43:57 – Premature Immaculation
  • 00:46:21 – Challenging Ethics in the Spiritual Community
  • 00:48:01 – Addressing Apologies, Making Amends, and Atonement
  • 00:50:14 – Creating a Culture of Accountability
  • 00:52:14 – Moving towards a culture of cooperation
  • 00:53:57 – The Importance of Humility in Learning
  • 00:55:25 – The Importance of a Deeper Student-Teacher Relationship
  • 00:57:34 – Abuse of Power in Teaching and Learning
  • 00:59:10 – Mutual Healing and Reconciliation
  • 01:01:34 – The Birth of Something Helpful

482.1 The Ethics of Teacher-Student Romantic Relationships


The Ethics of Teacher-Student Romantic Relationships

  • The Association for Spiritual Integrity does not have a moralistic, judgmental orientation. It’s a community endeavor. We don’t agree among ourselves on certain points. We’re trying to balance our subjective perspectives with standards that fit our contemporary culture.
  • A key point of disagreement is the issue of teacher-student romantic/sexual relationships. None of us are rigid or adamant in our opinions. We’re trying to work it out.
  • There are exceptions to every generality. In graduate school, psychotherapists are taught that it will never be appropriate for therapists and their clients to become partners.
  • Relationships tend to be the most challenging aspect of people’s lives. These challenges shouldn’t bleed into a teacher’s teaching activities.
  • When a teacher/student or therapist/client relationship transitions into romantic involvement, the potential for growth is undermined.
  • Sometimes “divine compulsion” arises in your spiritual path, shattering your conception of appropriate behavior.
  • The problem with teachers who haven’t transcended desire and explored their own shadow.
  • There can be a huge disparity between the apparent enlightenment of a teacher and their behavior.
  • Isolation and being closed to constructive criticism can be very dangerous for a teacher.
  • If a teacher doesn’t have friends other than his students, he might want to ask why. If he doesn’t have regular relationships and is always on a pedestal, he won’t get real-world feedback.
  • The culture is changing anyway. We’re just trying to give voice to values that are becoming lively in collective consciousness.
  • There can be a lot of practice involved in having your actions be a reflection of your deepest understanding.

Discussion of this panel in the BatGap Community Facebook Group.

Summary and Transcript of this discussion

Recorded October 26, 2018

Other BatGap episodes with these participants:

Recorded October 26, 2018

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

  • 00:00:00 – Introduction and Panel Discussion Preparation
  • 00:02:18 – Introduction of Panel Discussion and its Purpose
  • 00:04:09 – The Fluidity of the Situation and the Need for Collaboration
  • 00:05:42 – Discussing Regulation of Teacher-Student Relationships
  • 00:07:13 – Teachers and romantic relationships with students
  • 00:08:51 – The Importance of Boundaries in the Teacher-Student Relationship
  • 00:10:02 – Messiness in Relationships and the Sangha
  • 00:11:18 – The Importance of Boundaries in Therapeutic Relationships
  • 00:12:27 – Breaking the Golden Rule
  • 00:13:33 – Choosing God over my marriage
  • 00:14:48 – The Journey of Teacher-Student Relationships
  • 00:16:11 – Protecting Students from Teacher Misconduct
  • 00:17:39 – Violation of Trust and its Consequences
  • 00:19:01 – Projection into the Sangha
  • 00:20:12 – Bringing the Conversation into the Light
  • 00:21:24 – The Deception of Enlightened Teachers
  • 00:22:29 – Building Accountability and Transparency
  • 00:23:43 – The Power of Shared Accountability and Learning Together
  • 00:24:57 – Reflections on Personal Growth
  • 00:26:01 – Creating a Supportive Community
  • 00:27:26 – Open Feedback and Accountability
  • 00:28:33 – Dysfunction in Relationships and the Need for Community
  • 00:29:31 – Coming together in support and solidarity
  • 00:30:18 – Creating a new type of sangha
  • 00:31:33 – The Importance of Continuous Learning and Growth
  • 00:32:26 – Creating openness and transparency for genuine collaboration
  • 00:33:38 – The Intractable Conversation
  • 00:34:37 – The Importance of Ethics for Young Teachers
  • 00:36:02 – Learning Boundaries and Working with Power
  • 00:37:35 – The Gift of a Supportive Community
  • 00:38:57 – Website Launch and Conclusion
  • 00:40:13 – Music Introduction

The Ethics of Teacher-Student Romantic Relationships

  • The Association for Spiritual Integrity does not have a moralistic, judgmental orientation. It’s a community endeavor. We don’t agree among ourselves on certain points. We’re trying to balance our subjective perspectives with standards that fit our contemporary culture.
  • A key point of disagreement is the issue of teacher-student romantic/sexual relationships. None of us are rigid or adamant in our opinions. We’re trying to work it out.
  • There are exceptions to every generality. In graduate school, psychotherapists are taught that it will never be appropriate for therapists and their clients to become partners.
  • Relationships tend to be the most challenging aspect of people’s lives. These challenges shouldn’t bleed into a teacher’s teaching activities.
  • When a teacher/student or therapist/client relationship transitions into romantic involvement, the potential for growth is undermined.
  • Sometimes “divine compulsion” arises in your spiritual path, shattering your conception of appropriate behavior.
  • The problem with teachers who haven’t transcended desire and explored their own shadow.
  • There can be a huge disparity between the apparent enlightenment of a teacher and their behavior.
  • Isolation and being closed to constructive criticism can be very dangerous for a teacher.
  • If a teacher doesn’t have friends other than his students, he might want to ask why. If he doesn’t have regular relationships and is always on a pedestal, he won’t get real-world feedback.
  • The culture is changing anyway. We’re just trying to give voice to values that are becoming lively in collective consciousness.
  • There can be a lot of practice involved in having your actions be a reflection of your deepest understanding.

Discussion of this panel in the BatGap Community Facebook Group.

Summary and Transcript of this discussion

Recorded October 26, 2018

Other BatGap episodes with these participants:

Recorded October 26, 2018

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

  • 00:00:00 – Introduction and Panel Discussion Preparation
  • 00:02:18 – Introduction of Panel Discussion and its Purpose
  • 00:04:09 – The Fluidity of the Situation and the Need for Collaboration
  • 00:05:42 – Discussing Regulation of Teacher-Student Relationships
  • 00:07:13 – Teachers and romantic relationships with students
  • 00:08:51 – The Importance of Boundaries in the Teacher-Student Relationship
  • 00:10:02 – Messiness in Relationships and the Sangha
  • 00:11:18 – The Importance of Boundaries in Therapeutic Relationships
  • 00:12:27 – Breaking the Golden Rule
  • 00:13:33 – Choosing God over my marriage
  • 00:14:48 – The Journey of Teacher-Student Relationships
  • 00:16:11 – Protecting Students from Teacher Misconduct
  • 00:17:39 – Violation of Trust and its Consequences
  • 00:19:01 – Projection into the Sangha
  • 00:20:12 – Bringing the Conversation into the Light
  • 00:21:24 – The Deception of Enlightened Teachers
  • 00:22:29 – Building Accountability and Transparency
  • 00:23:43 – The Power of Shared Accountability and Learning Together
  • 00:24:57 – Reflections on Personal Growth
  • 00:26:01 – Creating a Supportive Community
  • 00:27:26 – Open Feedback and Accountability
  • 00:28:33 – Dysfunction in Relationships and the Need for Community
  • 00:29:31 – Coming together in support and solidarity
  • 00:30:18 – Creating a new type of sangha
  • 00:31:33 – The Importance of Continuous Learning and Growth
  • 00:32:26 – Creating openness and transparency for genuine collaboration
  • 00:33:38 – The Intractable Conversation
  • 00:34:37 – The Importance of Ethics for Young Teachers
  • 00:36:02 – Learning Boundaries and Working with Power
  • 00:37:35 – The Gift of a Supportive Community
  • 00:38:57 – Website Launch and Conclusion
  • 00:40:13 – Music Introduction

427. Panel Discussion: “Sudden or Gradual: Two Paths to Realization?”

SAND-PanelRecorded at the Science and Nonduality Conference.

There is a perennial debate in spiritual traditions regarding whether realization is direct (sudden) or progressive (gradual). But is this a false distinction? Realization is often sudden, no matter how many years of practice may have led up to it, and even after realization, most people find that refinement, clarification, and the working out of personal shortcomings continue indefinitely.

Who wouldn’t prefer direct realization to years of purification and practice? But how many examples of purely direct realization can we find? Can a path be both direct and progressive? Is it possible to have a taste of our true nature from the outset, and then spend a lifetime clarifying and embodying it? Also, is there one watershed breakthrough which can be universally agreed upon as final “Realization”, or are there many degrees and stages of realization, each of them important stepping stones in a never-ending journey?

Proponents of the direct path sometimes argue that if we regard spiritual development as progressive, we will forever be anticipating, never arriving. But some spiritual seekers, not appreciating the distinction between understanding and experience, mistake intellectual understanding with enlightenment, and consider themselves “finished” when they are just getting started.

Isa GucciardiIsa Gucciardi, Ph.D. is the Founding Director of the Foundation of the Sacred Stream, a school for consciousness studies in Berkeley, CA. Isa is also the creator of the spiritual counseling model, Depth Hypnosis, and author of two books, Coming to Peace and Return to the Great Mother. In addition to her teaching schedule that includes teaching classes in Applied Buddhist Psychology, Applied Shamanism, Integrated Energy Medicine and Depth Hypnosis, she has active practices in Depth Hypnosis and Applied Shamanic Counseling in San Francisco, CA. For more information, please see sacredstream.org.

David BucklandDavid F. Buckland has a graduate degree in Vedic Science and researches and writes on subjects related to the approach, shift, integration, and embodiment of the stages of enlightenment. This reflects a 40 year unfolding that has been prominent for much of his life. But with a more recent series of profound shifts, the exploration became the life itself. Under the pen name Davidya, he brings ancient teachings into modern life. After many years of research, he published the book Our Natural Potential: Beyond Personal Development, The Stages of Enlightenment in 2017.

Previous Batgap discussions with David:

Michael RodriguezMichael Rodriguez – Drawing always from his direct experience, Michael speaks with great clarity and compassion about the undivided nature of Life or Consciousness, pointing to reality in a way that is free from dogma, ritual, or adherence to any particular tradition. He also draws skillfully from the world’s wisdom traditions and integrates Jungian psychology, literature, music, and art into his work to address the full range of human potential. He offers meetings, retreats, and private sessions here in the United States and abroad.

Book–Boundless Awareness: A Loving Path to Spiritual Awakening and Freedom from Suffering

All his work, including his interviews on Buddha at the Gas Pump and Conscious TV, can be accessed via his website: www.BoundlessAwareness.org.

Previous Batgap discussion with Michael

Discussion of this video in the Batgap Community Facebook Group.

Transcript of this interview

Recorded October 22, 2017

Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast.

YouTube Video Chapters:

  • 00:00:00 – Sudden or Gradual? Two Paths to Realisation
  • 00:04:33 – Understanding the Direct Path
  • 00:09:16 – The Both/And Path of Integration
  • 00:14:10 – The Experience of Self on a Soul Level and Relative Level
  • 00:19:16 – Holding Dual Perspectives in the Awakening Process
  • 00:23:46 – The Continuous Process of Unfolding
  • 00:28:04 – The Momentum of the Old Way
  • 00:32:08 – Dissolution of the Self and Healing
  • 00:36:02 – Genuine Insight vs Mechanical Statements
  • 00:40:36 – The Importance of Healing and Clarity
  • 00:45:00 – Embracing Residual Traumas and Awakening
  • 00:50:25 – Accessing the Core Wound
  • 00:54:27 – The Illusion of Separation
  • 00:58:07 – Resolving the Core Wound of Separation
  • 01:03:00 – Audience Questions
  • 01:05:12 – The Challenge of Embracing the Concept of “No Self”
  • 01:09:37 – The Inability to Grasp the Concept of No Self
  • 01:13:53 – Exploring Different Perspectives
  • 01:17:09 – Clearing Thought Processes and Genuine Expression
  • 01:21:36 – When the Spiritual Path is of No Use
  • 01:26:00 – The Importance of Resonance and Finding the Right Teacher
  • 01:28:44 – The Unified Field of Attaining Enlightenment
  • 01:32:58 – The Beauty of Non-Progression
  • 01:36:49 – An Integration Process of Years
  • 01:41:32 – Sharing Perspectives on Vedic and Buddhist Thought
  • 01:45:31 – The Consciousness of Black Oaks
  • 01:49:30 – A Path of Gradual and Sudden Shifts
  • 01:53:18 – Maintaining the Lightness
  • 01:57:03 – The Journey of Self-Realization and Shifting Realities
  • 02:01:18 – Connecting with the Felt Experience