18 thoughts on “008. Hilary Jordan

  1. Another fascinating interview. Another unique experience of the process. Her comments were especially interesting around The Secret – the ask and then see what comes up. That is the next step. Allow it all. Notice the feelings.

    Paying attention to how I felt was a huge shift for me that made all the difference in progress.

    I was disappointed you didn’t explore her process past the initial switch though. I’d like to hear more UC switch stories to understand the variety better. Not so much data there ;-)

    Thanks Hilary and Rick!

  2. She wants to come back for another one because she feels a lot has happened since the first one. We’ll do that soon.

  3. Andrew’s last two closing comments prompt me to ask…

    why do we feel the need to create standards for spiritual maturity/immaturity in the first place?

    “Spiritual maturity looks like this (i.e. you can see love easily). And if you don’t or can;’t, then it must be spiritual immaturity.”

    The awakened people, whom I know, all agree: what you once thought to be true is no longer.

    Including the standardized tests that we like to employ for spiritual maturity/immaturity.

  4. Obviousness, Andrew, is a subjective experience. What is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. To expect that it should be is to objectify the subjective. The same can said for truth.

    As for some folks claiming to possess a heightened degree of enlightenment, why does that matter to you as much as it does?
    People can claim anything they want. It’s inconsequential to me, and occasionally entertaining.

    If you have no desire or expectation for other people’s perceptions to align with yours, you will have no problem with anyone’s spin on anything.

    The only spins that I have a problem with are those that do physical harm to someone else. Other than that, anyone is free to spin or claim anything they want.

    You also raise an interesting subject when you mention the “c” word, or compassion. It means different things to different people. As does the term “awakened”.

    From my personal experience of crossing paths with some awakened people, everyone one of them has informed me that compassion is not a motivator for their actions.

    Most forms of compassionate action involve a subject and an object, or a benefactor and a benefited.

    To my awakened compadres, however, they (ap)perceive no substantive separation between themselves and others. So they treat others as if they were treating themselves. The pain of another is their pain. And the emotional distress of another is their emotional distress.

    If you asked them if they were acting compassionately, they would say not. They would simply say that they were treating everything and everyone in the world… as if they were them.

    It’s an interesting subject, compassion. One that certainly deserves further consideration.

  5. P.S.

    I would probably receive more benefit if I evidenced compassion towards those who claim superior spiritual authority…

    than I would from expecting them to act more compassionately.

    Wouldn’t you agree?

  6. I’m enjoying batgat tremendously. My comments here do not particularly pertain to HJ’s interview, but something in my own experience I want to reconcile. I am not claiming to have an “awakened” state.

    There are periods of time when I had a good availability of pleasure flowing up the spine to the top of the head. When I was in activity and would close my eyes for some silence, the pleasure would rise up to the top of my head. When I did this in the midst of people in activity it always had a tremendous impact on the people in activity around me. For instance, if I did this before a meal in a very crowded, talkative, campus dining hall–the whole dining hall would gradually become completely silent–everyone would just gradually talk less and less and then complete silence. This happened over and over and over again and there was always a direct relationship between the strength of the flow of pleasure in my body and the degree to which a few hundred people in the dining hall became quieted.

    The reason all this is puzzling is that: I know many awakened people around Fairfield and when I am around them, it just feel completely ordinary and others in the environment around them seem also unaffected by their presences, and yet not-awakened-me has had tremendous effects on large numbers of people in the immediate environment over and over again. (I was at Opryland in Nashville once, in a very large room with maybe 100 people. All of these people where waiting to be called to audition. There were singers and dancers, string quartets , all kinds of performers, and they were all busy playing and singing and warming up. I was there to audition as well. I wanted to make sure I was at my best so I went to the far end of the big room and found a chair behind a partition–like an office cubicle divider–and sat down, out of sight of the rest of the group. I sat up straight and simply closed my eyes. A good flow of pleasure flowed up to my head and gradually, and very dramatically, the whole room settled down into complete silence. The singers stopped singing the musicians stopped playing–the whole room settled into silence. Do you see why I don’t understand how it is that the “awakened” in batgap and others that I know don’t have this kind of enviromental effect. Any comments?

  7. Thanks for the comment Andrew. I’ll think about posting other experiences.

    For now I wanted to share that the quieting effect on the people in the environment is totally unintentional from my side. Maybe I had to rush to the dining hall and just wanted to re-establish silence within before eating. It just always seemed that the greater the flow of pleasure up to the top of my head, the more the people in the environment quieted.

  8. Hey Peter,

    I agree with you. All these rules are strange. It’s people starving entire countries, and someone’s reallly suppose to care that someone claims cc, uc, gc…. who cares. people follow more stupid things then spiritual teachers. If it’s not a teacher, it’s the best cup of coffee possible! What a joke. Petty really.

  9. The person, who has replaced his needs with those of another, catches my eye more…

    than the person who pursues what he pursues because of his needs.

    Including the need for enlightenment/awakening.

    As one zen story goes…

    a student of zen approached his teacher and asked him, “how do I attain enlightenment?”.

    To which the teacher replied, “no ego, no problem.”

    Which begs the question, “can a spiritual pursuit be ego driven?”

  10. ” It seems that no one says they’re in CC”

    Although my background includes TM, I was never actually a seeker of enlightenment, and I never glommed on to TM’s map of enlightenment. However, after my Waking Down Brand Second Birth Awakening, I can now recognize my experience in the description of CC. The GC, UC, BC stuff is still just highfalutin hiranyagobbledygook to me.

  11. This interview made me laugh. Very nice. Thank you guys. Not too many thoughts to write. Just enjoyed the laughter within me.

    You are center and that is all there is and it is everywhere. In you there is no up or down, right or left for you are spirit, that thing from which and too which life flows in no direction and in all direction. Rejoice in who you are.

  12. I didn’t like the way she was sort of Dissing the TM movement. Lots of people spend years refining their experience with TM then have some big break trough and sort of turn on Maharishi. It seems bizarre to me and egotistical. Doesn’t humility come with refined consciousness?? Just sayin ;)

  13. This interview with Hilary is one of the jewels of Batgap imo. She comes across to me as so sweet and natural, and not out to prove anything about herself or trying to look good. From reading other comments, maybe not everyone agrees with this perception, and that’s O.K. too.
    The way she describes her experiences without trying to make anything big out of them is so refreshing.
    Hilary shines a lovely light.
    Maybe you’ll have her back one of these days Rick.
    Cheers, Larry

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